Music Chat: Inappropriate Music (2)

In this episode of totally "Inappropriate Music," we learn what otherwise thoughtful gift you should never give to a nun, find out which piece an olympic figure skater will never use in her routine (but would if she had any guts), and discover the one work you'd better hope your child never, ever, brings home from ballet class. It may all be great music, but as with so many such things, it all depends on the circumstances.

[@marknewkirk4322]

In January 1983, when the students returned to the Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music after the holidays, we learned that the dean, Norman Dinerstein, had died suddenly (and quite young). The school held a memorial service, and various dignitaries spoke, including a rabbi - Dean Dinerstein was Jewish. While all that was going on, the Bethesda String Quartet was seated on stage with their instruments, waiting to play. That quartet was made up of four Korean musicians, three of whom were profoundly physically diabled and were in wheelchairs. When the last dignitary on stage was finished speaking, the quartet launched into the slow movement of Haydn's Emperor Quartet, variations on "God Save Francis the Emperor", a tune better known to my generation as "Deutschland, Deutschland ueber Alles". More than one person in the audience gasped audibly, and the rabbi and other dignitaries on stage were visibly embarrassed. Needless to say, the Korean quartet had quite innocently chosen music they deemed to be appropriate. And it was, musically. But otherwise, NOT.

[@HassoBenSoba]

Oy.....

[@robinhahnsopran]

"It is a ticket to the opera 'Dialogues of the Carmelites'" I spat out my tea! Absolutely, 100% true!

[@majo9613]

As a figure skater myself you just inspired me to skate to Medea

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'd love to see that!

[@2906nico]

I love the nuns at the Met story (also totally agree about Dialogues des Carmelites). Nuns don't do very well in opera, now I think of it. If they don't get beheaded, they become possessed (Fiery Angel, Devils of Loudun) or go mad (Sancta Susanna).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Or show up in a satanic ballet (Robert le Diable).

[@HassoBenSoba]

@@gerontius3 But it should be noted that Puccini treated the nuns in Suor Angelica with the utmost sensitivity. There is the well-known anecdote that Puccini played his new opera for an assembly of nuns, of which his own sister was a member, and that they all wept for the title character and felt that she should be forgiven her suicide...as clearly the Holy Mother does at the final curtain. LR

[@elizabethj8510]

As soon as you mentioned the opera (to be unnamed so listeners can enjoy the surprise), I cracked up. Thanks for the laugh of the day, Dave. And yes, it's a stunning work--in the right context.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@licoricestic]

You're a riot Dave! This is my favorite video of yours of those that I've seen anyway although biased because I love Poulenc and that ending makes me cry all the time. Also "Madam Chickaboomsaya". 😂

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Glad you enjoyed it! I wish I could take credit for Chickaboomskaya, but it originated as a character in the old Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo, and as you can well imagine it kind of gets stuck in your head once you've heard/seen it.

[@mancal5829]

The Slave Regina is one of the greatest (and effective) scenes in all of opera. The music is not only amazing, it is powerful, it'll will rattle you to the core.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

The Slave Regina comes from a different opera, I think... ;)

[@mancal5829]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Oh my! Yes, that's most definitely another opera, hahaha. I meant the Salve Regina.

[@jimcochran1408]

I could see the double lutz's and triple salchow all the way. Brilliant!! I don't know why they didn't take you up on this choice. Great fun!

[@richardlenar3212]

Thank you so nuch for your talks. I have been watching for about a month now, including your back catalogue, and I believe I have become a better listener.. And I am grateful that you introduced me to the repetoire for string orchestra, a blind spot for me which I have finally been getting into lately. Regrading imappropriate music, the best example I have encountered was in an interview with American composer John Adams. He talked about a concert in England a few days after the death of Princess Diana, in which the organizers cancelled a performance of his "Short Ride in a Fast Machine." You always treat Christianity knowledgeably and respectfully. Thank you for that. I will risk pointing out that nuns are not under Holy Orders; that refers to the ordination of deacons, priests and bishops, Nuns take religious vows (poverty, chastity, obedience, etc.) and are actually considered to be lay people under Canon Law. Keep the talks coming! They always brighten my day.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Holy Orders in a colloquial, non-Catholic sense, I guess, but thanks for the clarification. I had some good friends who were IHMs (Immaculate Heart of Mary) during my college years, and I came to respect them tremendously. I came away with a very familiar sense of the dynamic in the religious hierarchy--the women do all the work, and the men take most of the credit.

[@whistlerfred6579]

An example from my background as part-time folk musician: My band-mate and guitarist friend was asked to play at a wedding. When he asked what they wanted for the special music, both the Bride and Groom asked for "The Minstrel Boy." My friend tried to point out that, whereas the song had a lovely tune, it was an Irish rebel song that ends in death and defiance - not exactly an upbeat message for a wedding celebration. But they insisted, so he managed to find a verse added to the song later that added a conditional happy-ending to the song. Still, I wonder what the wedding party thought when my friend sang the verse "He said 'No chains shall sully thee, Thou soul of love and brav'ry! Thy songs were made for the pure and free, they shall never sound in slavery!' "

[@hwelf11]

For a pair-skating duo (this one could be inappropriate or quite the reverse, depending on the partners) : The "Battle on the Ice" sequence from Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky."

[@johndillworth582]

Wow, I was unfamiliar with Dialogues des Carmelites. I guess context is everything because I'm watching many versions of this on KZbin, laughing hysterically , because I have your story in my head as the nuns are being decapitated. Now I can never see this live because I am sure I will react inappropriately at the final scene. BTW, the Amazonas Filarmonica, conducted by Marcelo de Jesus and beautifully directed by William Pereira on KZbin is outstanding. Thank you for a good laugh today....and now back to the decapitations

[@johnburlinson6697]

I have often fantasized Die Winterreise performed during the Super Bowl halftime. It is January, after all.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

By Latoya Jackson...

[@johnburlinson6697]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Preferable to Peter Pears.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@johnburlinson6697 And he never had a wardrobe malfunction...that we know of.

[@johnmontanari6857]

Remember the kerfuffle over the French TV movie "Cuties," featuring pre-pubescent girl twerking their hearts out? Alas, your "Salome" scenario is not entirely implausible.

[@nihilistlemon1995]

France elites are always against the protection of children . The existentialists signed a petition against the age of consent so

[@compositortiagoprado]

My wife is an ex novice and former catholic and she loves the ending of "Dialogue de carmelites".

[@iggyreilly2463]

A friend of mine was a local organist who played at weddings, funerals, etc. For a pillar of the community's obsequies, she was naturally required to play on the church's organ, a big, complicated Hammond or Wurlitzer or something from the 1970s complete with a full rhythm/percussion mode that neither she nor anyone in attendance could figure out how to turn off. Every musical selection was accompanied by a jazz trap set at least and a full big band at worst including a Cuban conga section a la Ricky Ricardo.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I had a similar issue during a performance of The Pines of Rome where, after the final cut-off, the organ just kept on going all by itself no matter what the player did. It held the last chord until I unplugged the console. The audience loved it.

[@iggyreilly2463]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Fantastic! The audience usually knows best. I wonder if we take funerals too seriously and ritually. Wakes are likely more appropriate -- and practical, as the food's usually better.

[@elizabethj8510]

A conga makes a good recessional.

[@iggyreilly2463]

@@elizabethj8510 Indeed it does!

[@bcmcc1340]

I've always thought Britten's Young Person's Guide To The Orchestra (specifically, Low Brass Variation, Percussion Variation,and the Fugue). Skater character would be a princess, stifled by Royal Pomp, with a streak of mischief, escaping the restraints during the fugue, but gets back to pomp in the end.

[@francoisjoubert6867]

Madame Chookabamskaya. Whahahahaha! Thanks for the fun. There is that story of what would have happened if Oswald shot Brezhnev and not Kennedy. The answer: Onassis would most definitely not have married mrs Brezhnev!

[@dmntuba]

I have an extra Tuba I could send you to use in background for a few months 😁

[@daveinitely3204]

Would you recommend a ticket for Puccinis Il trittico, instead the Dialougie des Carmelites?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No.

[@shota8713]

Speaking of Lady MacBeth of the Mtsensk District, I recommend the Allegretto (entr'acte between scenes 6 and 7) from the (Katerina Ismailova) suite as one of your Miniature Masterpieces. Within the required 2 minutes, it shows the maniacally peppy side of Shostakovich’s music (unlike the more genuinely lively Festival Overture, for example). As a percussionist myself, I am rather intrigued by the flashy series of cymbal clashes, as well as the loony xylophone occasionally supplementing the melodic material. The trumpets blaring and (what I would like to describe as) bickering in the middle section - certainly not easy to nail - are really cool too. I have a recording of the suite with Neeme Järvi conducting the (Royal) Scottish National Orchestra, a conductor and orchestra I noticed you hold with high regard. P.S. I love your book on Gustav Mahler (my favorite composer).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you. I do love that recording. Sadly, I don't have permission to use it.

[@geraldmartin7703]

I remember an old television sitcom, Buffalo Bill, in which a ten-year old girl in an amateur talent contest wins praise for singing, "Don't Cry for Me, Argentina". Performance not part of the show, unfortunately.

[@gonzostick]

Dance of the Seven Veils, Minus One?

[@colinwrubleski7627]

Chikaboomskaya... very witty indeed.

[@dizwell]

Thanks for taking the Moses horns comment in the spirit it was intended! I think your choice of skating music would have been brilliant to watch (a whole lot better than Bolero-snooze, anyway!). Not quite in your league, but anyway: one of my great friend's funeral service ended with us all trooping *out* of the crematorium to 'Send in the Clowns'. First of all, we were exiting, not entering. And second of all, my friend was a die-hard fan of Wagner and Bach, so Lisa Minnelli was wholly inappropriate, even on the face of things! Never die before your enemies (and the rest of your family with less musical taste than you!) is all I would suggest.

[@palmermonsen9098]

Thanks for a laugh in school

[@dmntuba]

I'd luv to see them dance to Macbeth

[@douglashuntington408]

I need that T shirt orange Holland color hup hup nederlander!

[@douglashuntington408]

Mr Hurwitz I tried to put my daughter in the carmelites here in MA it was a lost cause from inception but when she found out they can’t talk it was ballgame over. If they can’t talk how can they dialogue

[@elizabethj8510]

Carmelites are allowed to speak, pray out loud and sing in specific circumstances. I bet they're permitted to scream for help, when the occasion warrants it.

[@douglashuntington408]

@@elizabethj8510 that’s wicked funny

[@providence51]

The problem with this tam tam is the glare is too bright, something to consider

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Looks OK to me. Seriously. I like the shine.

[@hwelf11]

Strictly speaking, it's true that Rachmaninoff never wrote a ballet, but he had been thinking about the idea since a few years before he emigrated from Russia. Two decades later he approached his friend and compatriot, the eminent choreographer Mikhail Fokine, about ideas for a ballet scenario. Although Fokine had no ideas for him at the time, not long afterward it occurred to Rachmaninoff that his recently composed Paganini Rhapsody might be suitable for a ballet. He wrote a scenario based on the legend of Paganini selling his soul to the devil and sent it to Fokine, who created a scenario based on the composer's ideas, made a few minor adjustments to the score with the R's approval, and a couple of years later mounted "Paganini: Fantastic Ballet in Three Scenes", which was produced in London and New York in 1939 and 1940.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

As I said, Rachmaninoff wrote no ballets.

[@smoerup7955]

While composing his Symphonic Dances he played parts of his composition for Fokine, apparently because he imagined the work could be performed as a ballet. Fokine sent him a letter dated 23 September 1940 tellling him not to worry about making the music danceable. Fokine refers to a meeting five weeks earlier which would have been about the same time as Rachmaninov’s first letter to Ormandy about the work from 21. August. In that letter he wrote he had “finished a new symphonic work” that he wanted to “give first to you and your orchestra.” Possibly Fokine would have gotten it second. But it didn’t become a ballet in his lifetime: Fokine died within two years and besides the work was not as well received as the Paganini Rhapsody. One critic at the premiere actually wrote the work “might serve as a ballet with a macabre theme” - surely not meant as a compliment.

[@hwelf11]

@@smoerup7955 I think it's quite likely that Fokine would have done something with the piece had he lived longer. There have been a number of ballet versions - according to the all-knowing W., at least half a dozen from professional companies since the 1980's.