Music Chat: The 19th Century in Chamber Music

Seven composers (Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Dvořák, Saint-Saëns, and Fauré) between them offer a survey of the entire romantic 19th century in a glorious range of chamber music. We find sonatas, trios, quartets, quintets, sextets, septets, octets, and a delicious selection of shorter works that fall into o specific category. Start your collections with these boxed sets, and get ready for a lifetime of musical pleasure.

[@spqr369]

IMHO Schumann's string quartets are indispensable! Highly neglected works that should have more advocates.

[@ThreadBomb]

The third one is amazing.

[@pauldavidartistclub6723]

The opening of the first is so sublime, though I do wish they developed the entire first movement from that dante and not flip over to the main allegro, which to me is an artistic letdown. But I definitely agree with you, they had been way too neglected (as had the violin sonatas and trios until recently)

[@davidaiken1061]

I greatly appreciated this review, not least for your advocacy of three composers whose chamber music is vastly underrated: Mendelssohn, Dvorak and Fauré. Without diminishing my love of 19th Century orchestral music, my musical "home territory" during this period has always been chamber music. I was totally ignorant of Fauré's stature as a chamber music composer until I saw "Sunday Afternoon in the Country," a French film from the 1980's that effectively utilized some of his chamber works for the soundtrack. A charming film, by the way, which francophiles everywhere owe it to themselves to see. I have the Alpha set you recommended, but there is also a very fine Brilliant box that contains most of the same repertoire as the Alpha, PLUS the String Quartet. Thanks, Dave for this important review; I hope it promotes more serious listening to chamber music.

[@fulltongrace7899]

Thanks for mentioning the Brilliant box, which I have and really enjoy.

[@davidaiken1061]

@@fulltongrace7899 Another Brilliant box I am currently enjoying is the Vivaldi Edition. If you like the music of the Red Priest (and it's not as formulaic and repetitive as the stereotype would have it), then it's not to be missed. A critical mass of performances are given by the period group, L'arte del Arco," and they are quite stunning in virtuosity and wild abandon. A large quantity of Vivaldi's vocal music, sacred and secular, is also included, as well as plenty of chamber music. I also have Brilliant's Handel and Telemann editions, but they are now both sadly out of circulation. Enjoy!

[@kimjy7118]

That Faure box set you recommend was one of the most satisfying purchase in a long time. You get to have almost all of great chamber music by Faure, a wonderful performance through and through, absolutely great sound quality, and they cost about 19 bucks. I bought it about 2 years ago and I'm still excited when I think about it. XD

[@quinto34]

Thanks again David! You're so darn helpful for expanding my musical taste and cd collection

[@carlconnor5173]

Yes! Dvorak is a great, great, great composer of chamber music. The piano quintet #2 in particular is one of my favorites. That serenade is gorgeous! I’ve never heard it before. Triangle. I mean, the man was one of a kind. I love your love and championing of Dvorak’s chamber music; indeed, his music in general!

[@AlexMadorsky]

When people think of Saint-Saëns (and they really ought to think of him more than they probably do), people rarely think of him as a master of chamber music. More’s the pity. His bassoon sonata in particular moves me greatly, and the septet is so brilliantly orchestrated I’m surprised no one ever ripped off that exact instrumentation. I’m willing to wait a few more centuries.

[@AlexMadorsky]

@@prestonatkins37 I’m not positive I’ve heard his take, I’ll listen to it pronto. Thanks!

[@AlexMadorsky]

@@prestonatkins37 great, I’ll look it up!

[@sharpandshort]

Great Alex, I really like the inbuilt answer to "briefly, what single aspect of your recommendation would you set out as worthy of note?" Rarely seen :-)

[@rasmusblomberg7373]

Finally! This is definitely a list I (and I'm sure many others) have been looking forward to for a while, thank you!

[@francoisjoubert6867]

I just bought the Saints-Saens and what a surprise. Didn't expect a TRUMPET in chamber music. Thanks for making my Sunday morning - greetings from Pretoria, South Africa. My Great Dane Axel does not like it at all, and is snoring through the whole thing.

[@dianelewis4774]

I've been waiting for this chamber music video. Thanks, very much.

[@jakobpetropoulos8850]

David, I bought the 2 Dvorak boxes after your recommendation, I just wanted to share with you and all your viewers that I am amazed. Great great music. I have spended hours and hours of listening pleasure. Thanks so much, I am planning to buy your book on Dvorak as well. Take care my friend.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for sharing!

[@Don-md6wn]

I had been wondering when you were going to cover this extensive repertoire, which is some of my favorite music, and this big overview was a great way to start. I don't know any Saint-Saens chamber music and ordered that Nash Ensemble recording. The piece you played from Dvorak pushed me off the fence on the 2 Supraphon boxes to get the first piano quartet and quintet and the other stuff in them that is rarely recorded. As always, thanks for the video.

[@murraylow4523]

Oh goodness you are going to enjoy the saen-saens ..

[@Don-md6wn]

@@murraylow4523 You were right. I enjoyed the Nash Ensemble pair of discs so much that I ordered the Saint-Saens piano trios (Florestan Trio) and music for piano and violin (Graffin/Devoyon).

[@olegroslak852]

If someone hasn't done so already, please allow me to be the first to congratulate you on reaching >5,000 subscribers, and also for now hitting >10,000 views on each of your top 3 most popular videos! Still 1/1,000 what they should be, but great things come from small beginnings. You know, of all the value I get from these videos, near top of the list is just helping me to decide what to listen to today (with >30,000 cds strewn about my condo, trust me, this is a very real problem). Keep up the great work, I say, and here's to the next milestone of 10K plus subscribers and 100K plus views. I've been a long time Classics Today reader and subscriber, but this stuff is on a whole other level in terms of both depth and breadth of content. May you never slow down!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you!

[@alanmcginn4796]

Greg. Here here. And can we all please raise a toast to Mr David Hurwitz. And 10k, what about 1m? What a wonderful video. I just ordered the Erato edition for the chamber and piano works. Dave. You are a

[@alanmcginn4796]

True legend and thank you for all the knowledge.

[@Plantagenet1956]

What an interesting talk, as usual. Thank you so much for showing recordings I would never think of looking at, let alone listening too!

[@eugenebraig413]

I enjoyed this, as always. My own collection of a little sparse on the non-plucked chamber music, so this overview was especially useful. Of Saint-Saëns's chamber music, I'm also totally in love with the Fantasie for violin and harp, op.124. For what it's worth (not a whole lot), the arpeggione is essentially a bowed guitar complete with frets.

[@mancal5829]

This is so enticing!

[@orfeocookie]

Fabulous chamber composers, all of them.

[@simonvaughan6017]

I agree with you about Dvořák's Bagatelles: they may be "trifles", but they are also masterpieces. The best performance I've heard is by Domus (using a harmonium) on the defunct Virgin label, were they are coupled with the piano quartets of Suk and Martinů (also masterpieces).

[@cappycapuzi1716]

Ack! David recommended a period instrument recording. I am SHOCKED! I read recently that some think Mendelssohn's music is superficial though I don't agree. I listened to a couple of Mendelssohn piano quartets this morning. The Emerson recording of the Brahms piano quintet you mention is fabulous. Often they are too fast, but here they give the music some space. I luv chamber music, especially in the morning....it's so conversational. While I respect and enjoy the immense string quartet tradition, I have noticed I really enjoy chamber music which includes piano the most. More color. Wonderful chat. Your passion is evident!

[@johnfowler7660]

You might want to consider a video on Nineteenth Century Russian chamber music: Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Rimsky-Korsakov, maybe even Rachmaninov/off. Brilliant Classics has a nice 25 CD box (which also includes the Twentieth Century)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Frankly they didn't write enough and it's not good enough, though I might consider talking about some individual works.

[@raycatellier2079]

Agreed John, and add Taneyev and Myaskovsky to that list.

[@richangell3850]

Great video, glad to see Saint-Saens underrated chamber music getting some attention, I would like to find a good recording of the 2 string quartets to delve into. Next, how about a similar video on 20th century chamber music? Thanks!

[@adrianosbrandao]

Starting an Avaaz petition to include a triangle part in every single piece of chamber music!

[@francoisjoubert6867]

And the trumpet, like in the Saint-Saens septet.

[@BorjaVarona_at_YT]

Thank you very much for this illustrating video. In a very strange way, I was never interested in chamber music until I listened to Brahms' piano quintet. Up till then, I only enjoyed orchestral music. I guess that Brahm's quintet is kind of symphonic. The next chamber pieces that I "discovered" were Franck's violin sonata (but in a arrangement for flute and piano) and then, for some strange reason I bought a set of Fauré's chamber music (a different one from yours). It was a treasure. Then came Chausson's concerto for violin, piano and string quartet (again, symphonic?), Schubert (my all time favourite), the two "name" trios and some violin sonatas by Beethoven, the rest of Brahms' chamber pieces and Mozart's quintets (although I had already enjoyed his wind music). It's a bit embarrassing that Beethoven's quartets were particularly tough for me, though I sincerely love the Grosse Fugue the most (I'm sorry). After all this junk, I dearly appreciate your recommendations on Mendelssohn and Dvorak. I have sometimes listened to Mendelssohn's chamber music on the radio and found it particularly brilliant (maybe more than his well-known stuff) but I never got the patience to find a 'set' that presented it in an affordable an coherent way. This is the time!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for sharing your personal experience, and good look. No need to feel bad for finding Beethoven's quartets tough going. You'd hardly be the first (I still don't especially enjoy Op. 18), and it's fine to love the Grosse fuge. I love it too, even if I enjoy poking fun at it now and then. It's a beast, but an amiable one.

[@matthewv789]

The Brahms Piano Quintet was my biggest impetus to starting to like chamber music, too, the 2nd movement especially. (This was decades ago.) And the 3rd violin Sonata reeled me into solo violin music.

[@hobbysatanist6667]

A video about the best classical ringtones would be fun, would love to see what the community comes up with.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I agree. I've made hundreds and I mention then pretty frequently in the videos (and I've played a few).

[@matthiasriewald7168]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, and one of your talks (I forgot which one) inspired me to my current ringtone, which is absolutely perfect: the last section of the Sinfonia India (Bernstein recording), beginning a few seconds before the ff Xylophone entrance.

[@matthewv789]

I had the Minute Waltz as a ringtone at one point.

[@kylejohnson8877]

Great talk! I certainly agree with you about Dvorak being the greatest chamber music composer of the 19th century. What a consistently magnificent body of music! Regarding Saint-Saëns, the works you mention are excellent, but don’t forget his two piano trios! They’re two of his finest works as well as two of the finest works in the medium IMO. There’s a splendid recording by Trio Wanderer on Harmonia Mundi.

[@Sulsfort]

This talk immediately inspired me to put on my disc with the Fauré piano quintets (with Jean Hubeau & the Quatuor Via Nova).

[@cliffordbaker4930]

Same, except mine are by Domus. For some reason I hadn’t listened to this wonderful music in ages!

[@Emanuel-oz1kw]

Thanks

[@jorge5150]

I have that Schubert boxset on period instruments and it's great.

[@murraylow4523]

Yes the whole Bylsma complex there did some marvellous Schubert - the quintet is very satisfying and unpretentious Plus they did a great Dvorak disc (quintets and nocturne from memory)

[@Don-md6wn]

I wanted that box and could never find it at a reasonable price, but did get a couple of discs from it that they had packaged together some years ago, one disc with the piano trios and one with the Trout, the Arpeggione sonata and the Notturno. It looks like it's out of print and generally unavailable now like the full box.

[@raycatellier2079]

I wanted to give a very special mention to Schumann's three marvelous piano trios. Over the years, they have become my favourite piano trios of any composer. Yes..... Even above Beethoven or Brahms. I love Brahms' string quartets and I think they unfairly have this weirdly bad reputation. I love every single one of Brahms' chamber music pieces, EXCEPT I have never really enjoyed his second Piano Quartet, for whatever reason?

[@fulltongrace7899]

2nd piano quartet in A, which is incredibly long. I agree, the first one better.

[@stephenkeen2404]

Poked around on Qobuz looking for a high definition Dvorak Piano Quintet and found an Emanuel Ax and Cleveland Quartet recording, which sounded great. I'd never buy the CD, as this is the only piece on it. Every recording by the Florestan Trio is terrific, but I'm particularly fond of their recording of the Faure, Debussy and Ravel trios. I second everyone's love of the Brahms Piano Quintet, and would also recommended the Argerich recording of the two piano version, which is coupled with a rousing Mendelssohn first Piano Trio.

[@discipulussimplex]

I am happy as a child that i guessed all of your seven picks! :) === P.S. Not quite as big as those, but still, maybe a honorable mention? Hummel.

[@markmiller3713]

Alexandre Tharaud is an AMAZING pianist!

[@carlconnor5173]

Saint-Saens and Faure should definitely not be ignored!

[@carlconnor5173]

David, If you were to come up with a box of the “must haves” of the greatest chamber music pieces ever, what would they be? I’ve heard about a dozen or so I’d box up. But I’m sure I’ve only scratched the surface between what I’ve liked on my own and what you’ve enlightened me about. I’m sure you’d come up with 20 or 30, if not more. Do you think this would be a good idea for a video or two? Granted, you’ve probably covered most of them, if not all, in your many videos on chamber music. (I guess I could ask you do the same for Symphonies.)This idea just occurred to me while listening to Mozart’s quintet in G (G flat?) and Brahms’ horn trio,, both I’m sure you’d include. Either the greatest or your favorites. Silly idea?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not silly, just impossible to do without everyone carrying on about what got left out.

[@carlconnor5173]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Come to think of it, David, it’s not like it’s a big secret knowing what you’d probably include in your 20 or 30 best/favorite chamber music box. It can be found in your videos, for the most part.

[@tterrace]

KZbin up to its old tricks - I got an ad popping up about 5 minutes before the end.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Fixed, I hope.

[@davidkalinov4570]

Would you consider doing a video on 20th Century in Chamber Music?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sure.

[@richangell3850]

I just made the same suggestion before reading this comment - you bet me to it! Sorry, Dave, for the Spam :)

[@martinhochbaum8936]

Dave, I know that you're not a techie, but could you please possibly do a video on how you make your ringtones? Thanks!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I just downloaded an app and followed the instructions, but I may do a talk on ringtones more generally (like the musical end).

[@murraylow4523]

Very nice Dave. On the Brahms chamber music there was actually a very good box on brilliant classics that may still be around, and was certainly fantastic value. I have some iteration of the DG performances, and the Hyperion which is excellent (I can’t think this is something that’ll be out of their catalogue for long even if as you say it’s mysteriously not there now). I’d just add that I don’t think the Schumann chamber music is as obscure or little performed as you seemed to suggest. For a box (with more than the onyx collection) there was another pretty good one from Eric Lesage and co (Alpha too? Not sure)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I checked Brilliant for that and Schumann but they seem to come and go and I wasn't going to make myself (and others) crazy over it.

[@Don-md6wn]

EMI had some bargain boxes pulled together from first rate performers and ensembles in their catalogue that I bought years ago, but they now seem to be out of print - 5 disc boxes of chamber music of Schumann and Mendelssohn, and a 6 disc box of Schumann's solo piano music.

[@ThreadBomb]

I have Brilliant boxes for Brahms, Schumann and Mendelssohn, but yes, they are out of print. The Brahms box had the quartets performed by the Tokyo Quartet - fabulous!

[@murraylow4523]

@@ThreadBomb Yes, totally agree, although I gave the Brahms box to a friend during one of my necessary purges. As you say, the Tokyo Quartet is luxury there, plus Isabelle Faust and friends in the Piano Quartets, very good Nash Ensemble recordings of the Horn Trio and Piano Quintet, Karl Lesiter (again!) in at least some of the clarinet stuff, I recalll the string sextets being pretty good too. The trios were by some reshuffling of Istomin, Laredo etc and I enjoyed them very much. Shame its gone, but maybe its licensing issues...

[@WolfGratz]

Thanks for a very helpful list - esp for newbies. But can you go back to listing the suggestions at the bottom and/or a pop up cos it can be a bit frustrating catching all those names, especially with the hand obscuring the cover some of the time.

[@Sulsfort]

- Schubert - L'Archibudelli, Jos van Immerseel, Vera Beths, Anner Bylsma et al. (Vivarte / Sony) - Mendelssohn - Mandelring Quartett (Audite) - Schumann - Ilya Gringolts, Gringolts Quartet a.o. (Onyx) - Brahms - complete chamber music on _Deutsche Grammophon_ with Karl Leister (clarinet), Amadeus Quartet, Augustin Dumay, Maria João Pires, Mstislav Rostropovich, Rudolf Serkin a.o. - Dvořák - chamber music boxes I & II on _Supraphon_ with Suk Trio, Panocha Quartet a.o. - Saint-Saëns - with the Nash Ensemble (hyperion) - Fauré - chamber music with piano: Éric Le Sage, Alexandre Tharaud, Paul Meyer, Emmanuel Pahud, Quatuor Ébène a.o. (Alpha)

[@WolfGratz]

@@Sulsfort Cheers. As I say a very useful list though I see the Schubert is getting a bit rare on the ground.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sorry--it was just too many names and I figured composer and repertoire were more important that names of performers. Thank you Sulsfort for posting them!

[@WolfGratz]

@@DavesClassicalGuide That's ok Dave. I blame the retailers and their stupid search engines. Having said which they are still better than those of Letterbox'd. The life of a cinephile is often a vexed one.

[@peteroneil6069]

Hi David, do you have Instagram?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No.

[@peteroneil6069]

@@DavesClassicalGuide You should consider it!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@peteroneil6069 Not likely.