Music doesn't need "beats"

➡️Free Harmony Guide: bit.ly/FreeHar...
I've got no beef with beats. But what if we tried something less obvious to add energy and interest to a track? Here are some of my personal favorites.
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[@JamesonNathanJones]

The harmony concepts that have helped me the most over the years (for free)➡bit.ly/FreeHarmonyGuide

[@TheValueOfN]

Thank you for the download.

[@fakshen1973]

Check out Vlaams Radiokoor "Barber's Agnes Deis" by choir to really hear what Barber was intending. Hearing it sung is very moving but also shows off all of the complicated parts.

[@meru_lpz]

I feel the same when people call my songs "beats", almost implying that it's not actually a song of it's own, not until a vocalist hops in. It's a bit annoying...

[@meru_lpz]

This hurts because i always dedicate great attention to my melodies, making sure they're singable and catchy, and making my lead synths expressive...

[@unduloid]

People call _my_ songs completely different things. I won't repeat them here as to not alarm the KZbin algorithm.

[@moxenrider]

This is such a weird phenomenon. A beat is the rhythm. Not the whole music minus voice. As an older rock musician, I was so confused when I began working in DAWs and kept coming across this term.

[@moxenrider]

@@unduloid hahaha

[@wither2654]

Yeah but tbh if I hear any instrumental with a trap snare it’s automatically a beat in my mind.

[@MrSlipstreem]

This is so true. I was sat noodling with an NTS-1 and a web-based sequencer last weekend laying down some multi-track stuff in LMMS and couldn't decide what to add in terms of drums and percussion. The answer hit me after just a few minutes, and the answer was nothing.

[@mekosmowski]

(I'm sorry, pun incoming.) How did the answer "hit" you without percussion? Maybe better to say it slid in place, no? But I'm glad you sorted your idea.

[@TheValueOfN]

"Beats", "FIRE!" and " 🔥" are all over the place on music production vids and I'm getting tired of it. The ideas that you spoke about regarding textures and rhythms are spot on for certain genres.

[@DaveChips]

I also prefer to make full structured songs... I believe beats are OK for a start, as it's very simplistic approach.

[@Hysteric_Subjects]

Same. Most not all of those folks are ripping off others and just chopping and rearranging a few samples, and that is a great tool to have in the box. But it’s just a tool, and there are troves of people making it The Thing. Boom bap, I can’t even listen to that shit anymore except legit old school tracks

[@ghfjfghjasdfasdf]

There will never be a substitute for percussion. It is what it is.

[@goatsub8115]

The track you have playing around the three minute mark is an absolute masterpiece. Beautifully unsettling....Thankyou!

[@katyg3873]

The problem? I suppose, with modern beat makers and beat maker KZbin especially, is they nearly always sound the same. Sample a piano/soul voice/horns, pitch it down, some drum pack drums, eight bar loop, done.

[@happyjessus]

The background music of this video is TOP!

[@selectfourteen]

Life is short people. Create whatever you wish.

[@jorgesultan8441]

There is even dance music without percussion/beat. Think of tango, waltzes and lots of folk music styles. Applying the principles of these styles to danceable electronic music, there may be an entire hidden universe in this area ...

[@maramé.r]

Often music today is dominated by ‘beats’ and the intrinsic rhythm(s) are seen to be of lesser importance

[@Cocc0nuttt0]

Its because people buy garbage speakers and then play music in already noisy places where you can't hear anything else. So, beats, because no other elements of the song matter.

[@jutube821]

Mainstreaming music means everything has to be OBVIOUS. No space for subtleties and I would say they (the people who want beats at all cost) have no sensibility to intrinsic rythm.

[@Turtlpwr]

Thank you. Been saying this for years

[@josephperkins-z7n]

The track from signals at 3:09 gives me a very odd feeling. I can justify sitting and looking at my wall when I listen to it. Say nate, how do you do it. How does you music evoke such powerful emotional effect. Not even just basic sadness or melancholy but straight up trapped in your mind thinking about your mistakes.

[@Fecho33]

People is hungry… KZbin is imploding

[@mrstumpyninja]

Having been stuck in a creative rut for a while your advice has made me think about the process in a totally different way. Thank you.

[@PanopticMotion]

Can we have a video on: Music doesn't need "melody" :)

[@souvlak1]

i always kinda make music without clear melody on top

[@IuriiPlevako]

Music doesn't need sound!

[@PanopticMotion]

@@IuriiPlevako John Cage agrees!

[@jonaseggen2230]

@@PanopticMotion Music, just like art can be anything you want, but to convince people you need charisma, talking skills and knowledge, or money.

[@PanopticMotion]

@@jonaseggen2230 100%

[@tapwaterstudios2559]

Dismember is definitely a great example of how you accomplished this with a "texture kit." Still my favorite song of yours. Thank for this informative video. You made some good points. I know I've been guilty of just going to playing the usual drum/ drum patterns when I want to add more energy. Thanks!

[@danbient]

The Adagio is one of those instances of perfection I always go back to,and strive for (however horribly)

[@drexia01]

Standing against the tide much appreciated

[@syrus3k]

Phat Beatz!

[@jeffhalebopp]

A fantastic perspective. Thank you.

[@blkrbbt]

Can I sample this to make a beat?

[@buellzz]

No one would ever play that... besides Frank Zappa

[@bioglassmusic]

fire emoji's remind me of the fire festival disaster.

[@ricardoremedio2716]

IDM wants to have a word with you ser

[@LowKeyTired-q7d]

This is very true 😂😂😂

[@jondellar]

Thank you, Jameson. Your videos are so thought-provoking. I often squirrel away your advice for later use. 😉

[@waltersir7306]

🔥 fire fire 🔥

[@Roboprogs]

Knock it off, Beavis.

[@subtorq]

Thanks. I needed to hear this 👍😎

[@justinblumberg8101]

Fascinating. I think I have been approaching compositions both ways but not really thinking about the distinction between the two methods. One approach was appropriate for one particular purpose, so forth.

[@gumbilicious1]

I think you kinda nailed it early. If you are going for a feel or effect then you can use many devices/methods to achieve you desired goal. Using the same trick [almost] every time gets, stale and old, doesn’t scratch that itch. I think this approach is much more inline with people who do music as a hobby, wherein commercial appeal is not the main goal (or even an important goal). If you are someone trying to maximize money making or clicks then using well worn methods that people expect is incredibly useful. If you are mainly a hobbyist or someone trying to appeal to a much smaller audience, then it becomes much more important to please yourself first, else why would you be doing it as a hobby

[@Androsynth75]

"Beats" for me, especially the stuff posted frequently on KZbin often sound to me like an unfinished song's starting point. A lot of my songs start as what could be considered a 'beat', I'll come up with a cool minute long loop or neat drum pattern, but that's just step one. A lot of people seem to just get kinda stuck there and make a series of of these one shot loops of whatever genre, call them 'beats', and never turn them into actual songs. Even if you are using that loop as backing for, say, a hip hop track, it's still unfinished, and even then it benefits from variety and change over time and not just being a static loop.

[@jg_ultra]

I halfway think that “beat”, as the term is commonly used now, is an attempt to downplay what it is, that being a loop. And why downplay it by calling it something else? Because even the person saying it knows that loop is not enough, and is far from “done.” They think their job is done, but we know that getting to a loop is the easy part after which the real work begins.

[@Androsynth75]

@@jg_ultra Yeah exactly. And it’s perfectly ok to say ‘I’m new at this and this is where I get stuck at’. We’re all there at some point. But these days people just move goalposts and say ‘this is a finished beat’ and really, it’s just an incomplete song with extra steps. Being bad is part of getting good. If you don’t work past that, you never actually get good. I’m just now, after like three years, putting out stuff I’d co sider passable. It’s a lot of work. It’s hard.

[@ryanedwardmusic]

Finally people are saying it

[@jeremythornton433]

ow! I'm very glad i found your channel. I subbed right away. I"m a music writer and although most of my stuff is rock based, since I'm a synth player first, I do write ambient music too. Not enough though. Now I have a reason to! Thanks for that!

[@moontan91]

what this world needs is less 'beats' and more chords.

[@edwinbrown9951]

Another great video. Thank you!

[@misterguy9051]

Great vid again. You touch on two important aspects which i relate to very much. 1- Rythm: Personnally, i just DONT use drum loops. And i NEVER start with kick. Just never. I think starting with drum loops sets an illusory feel that everything is okay and that the tune is going to be awesome. I prefer to write them all in midi. I examine what percs, various alt instruments and various synths orchestrations can do to give an influx of rythm. 2- I totally agree regarding melody being humanly playable. When doing my lives, all melodies and lots of chords, i play myself. I adds organicity over the programmed counter-melodies and synths BG runs.

[@JohnMark61355]

Thank you.

[@dachiklangmusik]

808 wiped out „sound“ from „music“

[@danpreston564]

I use a Torso T-1 sequencer and though it works really well for making dance music I love making music without beats with it, where the rhythm comes from the rhythmic use of the melodic elements. Occasionally it’s nice to add a spartan snare drum in there but I love to do it without beats.

[@brianbergmusic5288]

Well said. One well to draw inspiration from would be orchestral/film-score music; which has a lush universe of textures that the percussion section serves instead of becoming a be-all-end-all focal point (especially before the Zimmer-ites). There is a video that I would earnestly recommend being paired with this video: * The Death of Melody * by Andrei Samoylov (the channel used to be "Inside the score").

[@candoraudio3159]

turning is a great track

[@aspirativemusicproduction2135]

I don't find melodies difficult to write. It's just difficult to know if it's original. There is 99% chance someone somewhere have played the same or very similar melody already. I hate hearing "this sounds like that." Off course everything sounds like something else. It's like saying "the sky is blue most of the time." Sometimes it's purple or orange but it's blue most of the time.

[@Nenko_Music]

or a heartbeat

[@thejontao]

Interesting! So… for example… I could use sounds (which maybe never make their way to the master bus) to trigger side-chain compression to create a “throbbing” sound/feeling… rhythmic or otherwise. Or, really, as side-chain triggers for any effect. Since the beginning of my ambient journey (1996), I’ve used sounds to “trigger” reverb without the original sound appearing in the mix (a fancy way of saying all-wet reverb), even chaining this multiple times with other effects appearing between the multiple reverbs…. Very interesting… I’ve got some new ideas. Thank you.

[@alienteknology5390]

I'm also tired of producers obsessing over "beats." I believe they often use them as a way to appropriate the musical efforts of others. They put a beat to someone else's track, release it because they have the right industry connections, then get all the credit. I suppose this is okay if they are paying royalties & the copyright owner is happy with the arrangement. But it still proliferates this idea that everything needs a beat. Don't get me wrong, just about everything I write has untuned percussion. But I want the ones that don't to stay that way.

[@PeterMarlow-u2i]

👏👏👏

[@clarenceshim4339]

thanks for this very informative video my brother, it really gave me more of a vision of my original material, SHIMI The entertainer Rochester NY

[@Grant82gc]

I love this!! although i make music predominantly for dancefloors (techno, psy, trance, progressive) so "beats" usually come in the form of electronic drums.. having said that, i like to keep energy in my breakdowns so subconsciously i use some of the methods described to keep the music "danceable" without drums. When i put my DJ hat on im also subconsciously looking for this in other music.

[@Grant82gc]

P.s. I do experiment with atmospheric music but I tend to over-produce it..

[@Listento360]

I arpeggiolistically agree! 😉

[@squareeyedgit]

Conversely, it boils my piss when someone goes "TUNE!" when melody is nowhere to be heard in the piece playing!

[@ChanceBloodstoner]

Very well said

[@unduloid]

F̴I̸R̴E̸ ̷E̴M̶O̶J̷I̸

[@Plohph1]

Amazing video as always! Would absolutley love for you to do track breakdowns! For example of the you play at 3.09! Would love to see you talk about the production, the idea and how it evolved etc😊

[@JamesonNathanJones]

I've got a few breakdowns from 3-4 years ago still up on the channel I think. :)

[@Plohph1]

@@JamesonNathanJones will check those out then!

[@TimothyHaverkamp]

Slowly opens up Adagio for Strings...🤣

[@eyvindjr]

Beats are just too incorporated in popular music, and have been for a long while. That so much music is consumed via bad headphones and phone speakers does not make it any better: snares, hats and clicky kicks will always have presence, even on the worst sound systems, while subtle texture changes will be lost. The expectations of beat drops are also very important in many genres, and playing with them can be both fun and satisfying.

[@soundgrips]

Beats themselves aren't the problem, it's the people who don't put in the effort to add real emotion into their music. Too much quantizing. Not enough attention paid to a notes velocity or when a note starts and stops. Too much copying and pasting parts instead of playing the part a second time with a different feel. Too much visual focus on where a note should go rather than listening to where the note should be played. A lot of beats these days just have people bobbing their heads saying "That's Hard" but they don't really take the listener on an emotional journey.

[@longlostrobots8146]

Beats are not songs . Great video

[@LevittownDirtBag]

Good stuff. So when you say "beats", you are really talking about typical drum parts. I would say a modulated tape hiss pulse is also a beat, as is any other regular rhythmic pattern however it is produced. I just wonder when people will finally realize that 5/4 should be considered common time LOL

[@timothyreynolds6255]

at 8:17 you discuss the thing you do that I love... I want to learn how to side chaining and gating a sustained texture. Please share this technique!

[@benjaminmirt5029]

The not obviously hardest thing in music production is a good beat. Its the dividing factor of a dope track and a mediocre one. Beats are a universe in themself and no it doesnt suffice to "put in a pattern" its soo much more than that.

[@hawkensson]

Hey this is a cool video can i put a beat to this FIREEMOJI

[@JamesonNathanJones]

Ok...but only because you typed out 'fire emoji'

[@salvodazes]

I'm not against anything that has a hint of originality, but that's hardly the case for any music that accompanies the word "beats" today. As a composer who has nothing to do with sampling, except for resampling my own track performances, looking at user made content for Ableton Move has been difficult. People are so busy whining over its limitations and missing features, where their imagination and patience in making music is the actual limitation they should work on. (Not saying that Move doesn't have limitations but to make a point of comparison). I'm so tired of hearing the same things over and over again. I want to hear something interesting, something new, something inspiring. Not another chopped sample with a generic drum beat. I never want to gatekeep musicmaking. I think everyone should try it. But I wish people would understand that this is work and you have to put in the work to learn skills like arrangement. Great video, thank you.

[@RJS-y3n]

You are totally right, but also a bit wrong. For example, people like you Rival Consoles, Olafur Arnalds, Nila Frahm, etc, etc.., make beautiful electronic music that stands alone in its own. But aficionados (like me) often hear it and, in our heads, hear ia different context (eg, on a massive sound system at a festival/dingy underground rave). It is, in a way, a compliment to you that people feel the vibe and tempo even when you deliberately try to mask it. I think you should embrace remix culture a bit. Say to yourself, fuck it, awesome - people connected with my music emotionally and felt the underlying energy and way to hear it on a dancefloor. Not my ntention, but who cares? Listen to ‘The Sky Was Pink’ and the Holden mix. Listen to the many remixes of Teardrop or Paradise Circus by Massive Attack. Or the K&D Sesdions, for example. As a music maker, you’re right - don’t add beats to your tunes. Be authentic to your own vision.Don’t be another generic blah. I applaud you for that. But listen to Jon Hopkins, then listen to Open Eye Signal or Neon Pattern Drum and tell me thumping beats are meh.

[@Quarce1]

Thank you for the recommendations! I have some exploring to do

[@johnnyraphaell]

❤

[@leyetnin1]

Drum machines and beats are getting boring after using them for 40 years. I use 5U modular to create very unique rhythms. Old Tangerine Dream style.

[@jjbing3]

It was better when I had my modular but I just kept making sounds and no completed stuff. 😂

[@christ5826]

onya bro, kids these days need to listen to more ORB

[@scottadams7820]

Something about poor carpenters and tools

[@tinkerwithstuff]

Hahah. I get slightly nauseous when someone mentions "a beat".

[@LPlekh]

what is playing at the very end? Would love to hear it in full, thx!

[@tl880linux]

3:09 this remains one of my favorite ambient tracks across multiple listens. Have you done a breakdown of the rhythmic modular patch in any of your videos?

[@JamesonNathanJones]

Thanks! I haven't, but if I remember correctly it was created by sequencing one of the wavetable shapes in the e352 Cloud Terrarium, then using the the Planar to automate the panning.

[@bjornark]

Awesome video, I can relate a lot to this. I am almost always reaching for a kick and a snare.... Is your Muse behind you there in tune? And does it play sound when all mixer faders are at 0%? Mine have some minor issues... ;)

[@JamesonNathanJones]

Thanks! I haven't had any issues with mine. There's almost always a little tuning drift and oscillator bleed with most of the analog synths I've owned though.

[@jaym2112]

I like "beats" more than melodies because I frequently enjoy passive listening more than active listening (such as while working out or working). However, I love your style and take on this. Your music is very interesting to me, and I like it a lot. I don't think I've ever tapped my toe to it, though, which is sometimes preferred (and sometimes not).

[@M2Texas]

As a drummer (first) and composer (second) I have absolutely no idea what this means. Music without rhythm isn't music, it's just a collection of sounds - maybe very pleasing or displeasing sounds, but still just sounds. Rhythm = beat. What am I missing?

[@fleetadmiralsidiqi1941]

Clickbaiting title?

[@katyg3873]

Beats- as in when people talk about ‘making beats’. Like a piece of music isn’t complete without a (normally) sampled drum loop or drums from a sample pack. Watch the plethora of mpc/maschine/sp404 videos on here. There so much more to be had from those machines other than just ‘beats’.

[@brianbergmusic5288]

He actually limits his composition style to "No Samples". Therefore he either uses synthesized drums or rhythmic textures for rhythm. Instead of using EZ Drummer, he has a REAL drummer record some takes for his productions. Therefore, he's actually on your side. By "beats", he's not talking about rhythm. He's talking about a paradigm of thinking about music production. He's asking his audience to consider other options than the obvious ones for today's pop and EDM. He's only asking his audience to think about music *without drum-machines* -- that's all.

[@lukasgraesslin]

Great video, can I put a beat to this? 🔥🔥🔥

[@JamesonNathanJones]

I'm sorry but this doesn't meet my 5-fire-emoji minimum

[@edrift3d]

@@JamesonNathanJones I have a couple extra I’m not using. 🔥🔥

[@evo2542]

Doesn't need beats? Sounds like a personal problem

[@MANDjango]

F a beat I’ll go acapella…..

[@brainbox9219]

But breakcore exist but I don’t really consider those “beats”

[@pcuimac]

Wrong. Music needs all of it, but not always at the same time.

[@blkrbbt]

Agreeeeed

[@SerhiiVilka]

Don’t make beats, make music instead.

[@gertumlauf5471]

No, they are Not....

[@SampleFire]

Ok boomer

[@kquat7899]

Beats are usually highly irritating , especially with those crunchy snares and resonant bass drums.

[@o3rMeNs]

Not sure if you can call a simple evolving drone or texture less boring. It’s called a texture for a reason. Can you call dry noodles without bolognese sauce or vice versa a pasta?

[@JamesonNathanJones]

A drone certainly can be boring. I have a whole video about that too. In this case I was speaking on ways to make them more rhythmically interesting or use them as a starting point for a rhythmic element in the absence of beats.

[@maiastniki]

rap beats n drum patterns are kinda restrictive and limiting in the way that meatal is and alot of people who view their drums or compose them like melodies tend to be more organic and less conforming.

[@JayM928]

Wait... Wait... Your taste is not the same as mine...? Unsubscribed! Just kidding...

[@JayM928]

PS: I love hihats. A driving groove that compels you to move yourself.

[@Connercoldwell]

What

[@Connercoldwell]

“Sound like me” if you want

[@TheMidnightBandit]

This is such a bizarre take. People use the term "Beat" to describe a hip-hop instrumental. There are other instrumentals labelled as Beats, but that's specifically a language issue, and culturally relevant to hip-hop mostly. You could've just made a video that states that music doesn't need drums. I guess that's not algorithm-friendly. It's pretty glaringly obvious that music doesn't need drums to be music. I don't know why people are opposed in any way to a term relevant to someone's culture. Beat is a valid term. There shouldn't be any confusion. Also, a song doesn't have to have vocals to be relevant or up to par. People just live vicariously through "their" music. That's why the most popular music is toxic mush that glorifies consumerism. Most people are really stupid.

[@commodoor6549]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This had to be said! Thank you! I'd feel differently about "beats" if it were Steve Gadd playing the beats, but when beats are canned and monotonous, it makes me want to stick ice picks in my ears.

[@plutostube]

beats can be boring for sure but ambient music is the definition of boring and sleepiness, ambient music can be made by a 5 years old kid, programming a good beat need much more years to succed

[@Spiderdridri]

making a good beat takes time, mastering the art of synthesis to make ambient also takes years. making a boring ambient piece with one chord and a lush reverb isn't challenging. making a 4-to-the-floor beat with kick on the 1/3, snare on the 2/4 and a hi-hat offbeat isn't challenging. if you wanna make a comparison, make it fair please

[@LiamKillen]

You are wrong. Everything needs a beat.

[@synkrotron]

yeah... ditch them beats

[@JamesonNathanJones]

#ditchbeats - from the trenches

[@synkrotron]

@@JamesonNathanJones LOL Yes!

[@X-101]

My problem with 'modern' ambient is most of it forgot it can have a beat, when i got into ambient in the 90s half if not more had beats, now you put ambient into youtube you get a guy with too much money and no talent playing a single chord on an expensive synth drowned in reverb from an expensive pedal. Personally I find ambient is an excuse for those who have no talent to justify there buying of gear

[@swz_tor]

right, instantly thinking of gigi masin and tangerine dream, harmonia even

[@rotisseueryu]

I’m sorry but this is just a bad take. Why don’t you stick to making and listening to music you prefer instead of hating on music that isn’t your flavor? I’m tired of elitists pretending that their attitude is somehow pro-music.

[@Hysteric_Subjects]

Many of us are tired of “beat makers” especially boom bap and old tired rip off shit - why don’t you watch a YT video that speaks to you instead of shitting on this lawn buddy

[@SuperRedstoneman]

The worst part about "beat makers" is when they slap repetitive or unrealistic shit together that would make any drummer want to end them(selves). Breakbeats have their merits and can sound really cool when made by someone that understands their tools but I doubt that it fits the subject.

[@СеменРефов]

Пацан могет

[@dabu73]

95% of the beats out there are recycled generic garbage

[@MarcVFons]

Music doesn't need "beats", I mean boring music like yours...

[@djpj8742]

Those who think beats are boring just have quit listening to music with imagination.

[@glennwilsonboerstlerii535]

What?

[@joshuas-g8r]

We need a new instrument is really the problem... all synthesized music has become the same just like the people. Sun ra tRied to tell us.... the music will push the people😂