Part 1: Laurie Spiegel Bell Labs Interview 1984

[@LisaBellaDonnaMusic]

Laurie is a true genius and a gift to the world of music.

[@NoName-fo7mz]

Nope.

[@Rainin90utside]

Love the way she discusses her art. Straightforward and clearly. Free of pretense and affectation. A true artist.

[@MusicMouse]

I didn't record anywhere near a cd's worth on the Alles prototype. Most of my time with it was spent coding software, not on music. It went from BTL to Oberlin c/o Gary Nelson, so maybe a cd's worth of music was made there. The software by me and others at Bell Labs was not sent to Oberlin with it, and I don't know what they did code-wise or music-wise. It's fortunate that even this 1 recording survived. Much thanks to all who have posted the various votes of confidence. Appreciated. - Laurie

[@code4326]

Thanks for Pioneering Synth Computer music! I built a 36 module Synth in the early 80's later bought a Oberhiem Synth. Presently Using the Korg KRONOS. Lots of creative avenues. I started as a guitarist and have been playing for 54 years now.

[@paulj0557tonehead]

Mr. Mathews looks exactly like my dad! My dad passed away in 1988 and looking at this video is cool for me in two ways because of this. My dad was an electronics engineer and he taught me electronics in 8th grade, beginning the day I was cut from the baseball team. He saw me laying down looking sad and told me to come along- ' We;re going to Radio Shak'. Now of course this was when the store had more parts and materials for the electronics hobbiest. Built 1st syth with old parts & rotary sw.'s.

[@remuted8656]

So grateful that this is being shared with the world today!

[@MusicMouse]

Live coding seems to be getting more and more popular as fast computers allow more and more tools for it to be available. In general, with exceptions of course, what I have heard and seen of it seems a lot more fun and interesting to do than to listen to as music. Will have to see how the music that's made that way evolves. I'm sure there is great unrealized potential in live coding.

[@andyweb7779]

Do you ever think 🤔 that one day instead of buying pre-recorded music you could buy a program and the program creates unique music as it goes along? Hmm, you could plug in a few variables for mood and aesthetic then let it go off on its bounded chaotic feed back loops 🤔 but it'd all require the old computer learning I guess and that's rather complex.

[@MusicMouse]

@@andyweb7779 Been thinking about and doing that kind of thing for going on a half century.

[@eottoe2001]

Are you the real Laurie Spiegel?

[@MusicMouse]

@Andy Web When I started along those lines, a computer composing independently of ongoing human input, back before this video was made, AI wasn’t done by the current kinds of heuristics, neural nets, brute force data crunching etc. What I tried to do in pieces such as the various versions of my “Harmonic Algorithm” (1981 onward) and before that in other generative music software I wrote was based on introspection and self-awareness, on observing how I made my own musical decisions. Making the subconscious conscious (including reflex responses) and then embodying those decision making processes in code was my early pre-supercomputer way to try to do what might be considered “artificial intelligence”. I had a fantasy of creating software that would be able to go on composing my music after I was no longer here to do that. But no, I never thought that kind of software would be a commercial product people bought instead of just getting to use it or everyone having the tools to create their own way to do it.

[@MusicMouse]

@@eottoe2001 I think I’m real. But who’s to say? ;-)

[@MusicMouse]

Also a MIDI "sequencer" plays values that have already been specified and stored. GROOVE could record and play back fixed values similar to that, but it could also compute musical output interactively "on the fly" in real time, so that algorithmic logic could be interacted with live and a compositional process could be specified by the composer instead of only specific notes.

[@LarsUndBeppo]

It must be so weird for you to know and be able to feel how electronic music started. And to see how easy (in my opinion too easy) you can produce electronic music nowadays

[@MusicMouse]

@iamnaughty123 Not at all. Computers can't replace humans and we are far from running out of ideas. Instead, computers allow us to go further, to discover ideas that could never have been thoughts of, sounds that could only be imagined before. They increase our power as individuals, so that we can explore and create beyond what we couldn't even imagine before them. They do this partly by taking care of a lot of the simpler more mechinical stuff for us, such as playing notes accurately on time.

[@ericrann]

as a huge fan of vintage work like raymond scott, bebe barron, etc, and a huge follower/collector of bell labs, this video is amazing! laurie is one of a kind...!!!

[@polymorphictotempole]

Laurie, I started listening to your album 'Unseen Worlds' about 15 years ago and think it's really fantastic. Fractal music, what a brilliantly innovative and natural idea! The sound you create is like nothing else. Great work!

[@SweetSweetWaldo]

Spiegel has an electronic music mind with a folk music heart. That's why I love her records.

[@drokaeuacho]

its quite interesting to hear,in 2021,you talking about futuristic technology and new ways to create a music in 1984 i just listened to some of your works and i felt amazed for what you did,such as cientist kkkk and such as musician greetings from brasil ;)

[@bitley]

I love the way a true synthesist speaks :) "There's a Synergy… the oscillation" ;)

[@shookstylez]

this is incredible. what a vision!

[@goatgodagain]

Laurie was also involved in the PBS production of "The Lathe of Heaven" at the same time that she was frequenting Murray Hill. It's hard to find but well worth it.

[@MusicMouse]

Live improv using computers hasn't exactly been a new state-of-the-art idea in some decades by now. I don't know the Korg Karma but will look it up. Thanks back for the info.

[@MusicMouse]

I added more info on the Alles synth description, which may or may not answer your questions. I didn't code the "synthesis engine" as synthesis was much more hardware-based and highly distributed rather entirely in software as in (most? all?) other music software of that era. As to what kinds of algorithms I was into during that period, you might check out my liner notes for my GROOVE works at retiary.org/ls/expanding_universe

[@MusicMouse]

SMPTE sync was only available on extremely expensive audio recorders, such as the Nagra, that were used to record audio during film shoots. No studio I ever did any work in had SMPTE sync on any analog tape deck. I don't doubt that would have been done by someone someplace, but most likely only in relatively high end studios, and probably not right off the bat in '67. You might try looking up if/when SMPTE sync of analog audio decks was done. I never used, saw or heard of it being done then.

[@HD41117]

I liked the take with the sound of the hair on the mic! Wish people - sound guys in particular - weren't so finicky about such things; they're usually a much more accurate representation of what actually occurred in that moment. Well, at least we can experience it here. I feel very fortunate to be able to see this footage. Thank you, Laurie.

[@doughitchcock3598]

I had never heard of Laurie Spiegel when I was introduced to her music (maybe five or six years ago). I love her work on its own terms, but it's really cool to get some insight into how it comes to be. I would never have been able to intuit this on my own.

[@ewoid64]

Laurie, You're a natural in front of the camera! Perfectly at ease and authoritative.

[@kylewhitehead1684]

Very very interesting. She speaks about the restrictions of traditional notation and as a self taught composer (albeit a somewhat mediocre one) who used to use notation software but moved to paper I have noticed this too. When restricted to established notation techniques certain sounds in your head can be very hard or impossible to express. I am currently working on a vocabulary of notation that allows for the possibilities in electronic music to be expressed more specifically. I love the freedom that DAW software gives in making music but I love analogue synths and hope one day to have a purely analogue setup and I also feel that notation is very important in communicating music between musicians, even with electronic music. I feel that music will be more permanent in writing than it will in sound files. I'm currently in the very early stages of developing my system and it will become more sophisticated as I get deeper into electronic music and more proficient at it.

[@MusicMouse]

Kyle Whitehead I also worked on a representation method for electronic sounds back when I was doing my MA in composition, and also had the advantage of being initially self taught and able to figure out lots of stuff for myself instead of having preconceived ideas drilled into me from an early age.

[@meagain2222]

You Laurie are an electronic music God. Good on you.Love every waveform.

[@seablue]

great interview! thanks for posting it. take care.

[@Chitowngreener1]

Hi Laurie, just got here from your Sandin send, and lo' and behold!!! I'm you 1,000 like!!! I like you!

[@ewicher01]

I was introduced to Laurie's music on a VHS video entitled Tornadoes!! The Entity. Very surreal and I have always been intrigued with this type of music.

[@ParmerWiseman-py2ln]

Yo fam!

[@yvamarquer]

The computer is an amplifier of what I can put out as a human being in sound - L. Spiegel

[@emilshere]

tape machines have been synced in recording studios for a long time by using smpte timecode... this locks their timing and allows you to turn multiple machines into one big multitrack...SMPTE has been around since 1967.

[@gerhardh.6239]

Very, very interesting interview with a fantastic electronic composer

[@holycannoli2]

wow... how far we have come thanks to pioneers like Laurie! I wonder if Laurie still performs live?

[@hewstigator]

truly an inspiration...makes me wish i still had my amiga (re: music mouse software)! george mattson turned me onto laurie spiegel recently and aside from loving the music, it is refreshing to see someone so brilliant but also so "friendly and non egotistical"...

[@hunterericson6782]

Nice ! I just restored my Amiga 1200 and it’s blazinn amazing and totally killing it right now ! I highly suggest restoring one with the CF drive in play !!

[@MusicMouse]

MIDI is overall a similar concept (computer control of external equipment), but far from exactly the same. MIDI separates the definition and the playing of an "instrument", so that composing sound quality per se has to be a workaround. GROOVE had no concept of instrument. Also it outputted continuous functions of time, not notes or events. Analog tape decks never ran at exactly the same speed as each other. They drift apart.

[@miltonparker]

hope there's a CD worth of those improvisations on the Alles still waiting to be compiled.

[@jazzmunky]

Wow, I wish I was this articulate! What an interesting person

[@PeterGrenader]

Hey Laurie...n nice to see you commenting here. be well! - P

[@SallyHewson]

There are a few of us. I've been married for 29 years to a man with an excellent vintage synth collection which he actually plays.

[@kirbyculp3449]

Forty years now...

[@dgmono]

LOVE. THIS. LADY.

[@MusicMouse]

Not that hard to find. There are copies on amazon and an IMDB entry at imdb.com/title/tt0081036 It's a real science fiction, not just a monster flick pretending to be one. Audio special effects by Laurie Spiegel. Thanks for mentioning it.

[@emilshere]

I was just reading about the groove system... the control voltage information was generated by the computer and then sent to external sound generating hardware.... doesnt that describe the exact same concept of what a MIDI sequencer came to be? Also, why didnt you sync multiple tape machines together so you could perform and record multiple passes to create a multitrack recording which would greatly expand your limitation on the number of voices available in a piece?

[@rigelvalencia3714]

6:16 gracias. Parafraseando a Paul Dukas : es la genial extensión de los principios.

[@emilshere]

Korg is starting to get into live improvisation generation with their Karma system. Thanks for the info!

[@A_New_Yorker_Lost_In_Florida]

im so in love with this amazing lady! .... she's so smoldering and intense I melt .. and the sounds are magic! 💙

[@emilshere]

what kind of programs did you have to code for it? Did it have any kind of default behavior / preset sounds or did you have to code everything from scratch? I would love to know what kind of A.I. you put into it,if any,to generate randomness + improvisation. Did you code the synthesis engine? What kind was it? Sorry, I'm asking too detailed questions for a quick answer but I love historic music tech. Each computer had its own character back then. Today things are powerful but not as interesting.

[@izzynutz2000]

Didn't Keith Emerson have one, an analog Moog..?

[@bettinawackernagel3024]

It´s a great interview, a very rare document of the time. Who did post it? is a better footage quality existing? would love to show and share it on a bigger screen in the realm of electronic music pioneers. Somebody has an idea? Thanks

[@un_gringo_excepcional]

it would appear you are actually thanking Laurie directly. No DMCA issues with uploading the materials here, because she owns it!

[@comic4relief]

Do you feel that KZbin is a good medium for your pieces? Just curious.

[@udomatthiasdrums5322]

still love it!!

[@sonnensystem2923]

Un ejemplo de trabajo en el campo electrónico,

[@rossturcotte419]

✨

[@michaelbauers8800]

I saw this video of Laurie using a Bell Labs additive synth. And that was very interesting. Additive synthesis is one of the more flexible sources for wave generator. But these days, in spite of DSP power, we don't have modern hardware additive synths. Possibly due to the current analog craze, but also possibly due to their performance requirements ( DSPs have to handle a lot of sine waves.) Possibly due to the issues of the user interface ( how do you easily program a synth with 50 to 100 oscillators per voice?)

[@MusicMouse]

+Michael Bauers although the synthesizer built by Hal Alles could be programmed to do additive synthesis, in the video you saw I used FM, for the exact reason you describe here. Additive has too many variables to control in real time performance. I did use additive synthesis, but only for the components of the modulator and carrier of each FM pair. I put the number of harmonics in each on one of those 72 sliders you see in the video. So that was only 2 set of harmonics per voice, and the additive partials could only be changed by a 1-dimensional slider control. (I tend to like hybrid technologies.) I did write an Amiga additive synth program once that put the harmonics on faders (fader pairs similar to those of Music Mouse if I remember correctly), as a way to be able to evolve the timbre.

[@michaelbauers8800]

+Laurie Spiegel Thanks for the response. Of course organs are a simple form of additive :) I thought it would be interesting if you could automate a lot of changes to your partials, and you would get this interesting ( maybe?) movement. I have not look at the current software synths doing additive to see how they do the UI

[@MusicMouse]

+Michael Bauers If you have an iPhone you might check out a couple of Henry Lowengard's apps. Look for Droneo and SrutiBox in the iTunes app store. They are each an approach to realtime performance with additive synthesis.

[@rpmvw72]

Not that hopeless. You're on a laptop!!!!!!!! That anyone can afford!! a pipe dream in 1984. 2010 ain't all bad.

[@artificium_]

the full film is on here, just watched it the other day so it's interesting that it was the top comment on here haha. i was thinking about it when i was watching a laurie spiegel video before this one. weird

[@hunterericson6782]

Interestingly enough, there is another “Laurie” using analog synths at Bell Labs nowadays ... Lori Napoleon aka Antenes , what a coincidence !!!

[@dvamateur]

1984 was a hopeful year, I remember. One year after the DX7 came out. The styling of products was great too (Ferrari Testarossa to prove it). Now, what about now? An idiot like me is watching this video on a laptop. 2010 is a hopeless year.

[@richardhines8622]

What does it say ?

[@comic4relief]

If I build a thing out of Legos, no matter how big and complex, I can move it piece-by-piece to a new place and make it exactly as it was. That's analogous to digital. If I were to try that with clay it would virtually always be off a bit, analogous to analogue.

[@comic4relief]

Mgudsgåva Perƨonasjžyj I'm not sure what all these things are, like open source sequences. Digital and analogue are two very different approaches, each with its own attributes and drawbacks. I feel generally that pure analogue is more natural and beautiful. Digital music has been taken too far.

[@djmarco589]

Ho guardato il video, ho tentato di capire ma l'inglese parlato per me e' molto difficile da capire. Quello scritto si.. Peccato,perche' m'interessava:-(

[@szymongwozdz8574]

crush

[@gerhardh.6239]

her musik sounds just like I mostly feel

[@tonebaz]

timeless 3:40

[@DoctorRazzArea4]

she is so pretty

[@electro257]

i love the music you have created.. laurie IS a zeitgeist of modern electronic music... a heroin to me and many others i am sure too...

[@artificium_]

intelligence is so attractive

[@thezone193]

Foamek brought me here.

[@tamatama14]

Wow he looks like my programming lecturer. Do your have look like this to be good at programming haha

[@jan-martinulvag1962]

playing with a computer and expressing yourself is not the same thing. She has got it all wrong and mixed up

[@samueladams7]

Man!! -- That friggin' video clock counter so SO ANNOYING!! Best to just listen to the interview rather than watch it. What's this chick doin' now?

[@alicejohnmusic]

I think I'm in love

[@Digiphex]

Looks and a brain. Good combination.

[@SullenMorbius]

she's hot

[@iamking1510]

No she's ugly, she would be hot to you...because you're ugly.

[@SullenMorbius]

i am king Guess I'm just not your type :/

[@ericrann]

yeah who's your last girlfriend then ... weirdo

[@SullenMorbius]

Your mum ...

[@ericrann]

not you sullen, ya big dummy, i'm talking to i am king!

[@pablodmdp]

She talks like Susan Sontag Id tap that

[@sclogse1]

Laurie was is still is .....a babe. Now...as far as nerdiness goes...does one find that more cerebral women turn out to be lesbians....... You tell me. I live in a Lesbian ghetto..(no) Anyway, I drove Subotnick's Touch through my brain back around 1972, and it and the Nonesuch catalogue helped me move into my own multitrack experiments on my ESQ1. Raymond Scott spent many moons developing his electronic work, but in his case, he was more productive and creative with live musicians.

[@paulauksztulewicz7381]

Or, sclogse1, you could just enjoy Laurie and her creativity, intellect, logic, as attributes of an amazing human being, without resorting to your unfulfilled- primitive desires.

[@docsketchy]

"Analog synthesizers work by analogy"... Wow! She didn't really seem to know how analog synths work. Why are "analog" synthesizers called analog? It comes from analog computers, which predated the digital computers we have today. Analog computers, like analog synthesizers, are voltage-controlled. So, what is the analogy? In analog computers, the electrical current flows through the electronic circuit in ways which are analogous to the way that, for example, heat flows through a solid, or water flows through a network of pipes. Analog computers were used to, among other things, solve partial differential equations. These equations describe the physical flow of heat and fluids and mass in various physical systems, and the flow of current through circuits follows the same mathematical rules. Hence, analog computers didn't so much "solve" the equations, but rather, the equations were manifested physically by the electrons. If this all sounds like bullshit, then I'll give a concrete example. The so-called "state variable filter" is a very simple and popular circuit in both analog computers and analog synthesizers. This is the filter in the Oberheim SEM synthesizer, for example. It was originally developed to solve (or, rather, to actually manifest) the common problem of the mass, spring and dashpot from Newtonian physics. The different outputs of the filter actually give the displacement, velocity, and acceleration of the mass set in motion hanging from a spring with a dashpot (a friction-inducing device to dampen the vibrations). A simpler way to think about analog vs digital is with clocks. The analogy of an analog clock is the actual passing of time which is represented by the motion of the hands. Indeed, the hour hand sort of represents the rotation of the earth on its axis (albeit twice as fast).

[@terrypussypower]

I'm pretty sure Laurie Speigel knew how analogue synths worked! And it's spelt ANALOGUE not ANALOG. What is it with American's fetish for fucking up the English language?

[@docsketchy]

Well, she certainly didn't demonstrate any particular knowledge of analog synthesizers in that interview. And i'll spell analog any way I like, you limey fuck.

[@comic4relief]

terrypussypower I think maybe "analog" came from some sort of brand or model name or something, and got mixed into the language.

[@docsketchy]

Yes, you're right. I'm sorry. I respond extremely badly to rudeness, especially from strangers who have no business being rude to me. I guess I just have to realize that I can't correct other peoples' extremely bad upbringings.

[@MusicMouse]

Analog computers are called that from the concept of "analogy", which you seem to be missing. The numerical value an analog computer could calculate was analogous to the voltage it produced. In analog audio synthesizers the frequency, amplitude or other characteristics of a sound are analogous to the voltage level and they vary with that voltage. I don't know why you would think that I don't know about analog synthesis considering that most of the music I'm best known for was done with computer-controlled analogue (gue = a tiny ack to the UK) equipment. In the lab in where this video was shot, Max and I are completely surrounded by analog audio equipment that we patched, calibrated and which was often built on the workbench there which we could voltage-control from a computer down the hall. A lot of it was the kind of "modular analog" equipment that preceded analog music synthesizers per se, such as big Wave Tech laboratory oscillators you can see in the rack behind me and other such scientific testing and research equipment. We had patchable racks full of circuit cards (modules) for mixing signals, inverting voltages, filtering sounds, whatever one of us was willing to put in the time to make happen. I got into computer-controlled analog synthesis because of the limitations and frustrations of the analog synths of that period I'd already been using for years. Those problems included oscillator frequency instability, lack of memory or storage, non-replicability of the instrument's behavior even with the same patch, and especially the limitations of the small number and low variety of control voltage sources. The computer allowed a potentially infinite range of possibilities for control voltage generation. But the audio synthesis and signal processing were still entirely analog.

[@SallyHewson]

There are a few of us. I've been married for 20 years to a man with an excellent vintage synth collection which he actually plays.