Martin Bracing Comparison - Forward vs Rear vs Standard Shifted

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@ytuberam7433
@ytuberam7433 7 жыл бұрын
5:34 comparison without conversatation. 2:20 Forward shifted X bracing. 2:47 Rear shifted X bracing. 4:04 Standard X bracing.
@antongronberg7123
@antongronberg7123 4 жыл бұрын
Thats really helpfull. Thank you! You can clearly heard the difference!
@jefferyhill4857
@jefferyhill4857 6 жыл бұрын
I like the classic forward shifting. Rich deep lows. Love it.
@Teachering
@Teachering 8 жыл бұрын
A good demonstration of the various X bracing used by Martin. Personally, I prefer standard bracing.
@bobaldo2339
@bobaldo2339 5 жыл бұрын
Sounds best on the D-18 anyway.
@Normhart
@Normhart 2 жыл бұрын
Same for me
@clawhammer704
@clawhammer704 3 жыл бұрын
Standard braced has the best balance.
@roymeyer6837
@roymeyer6837 8 жыл бұрын
This is one of your best videos to date in the post-Tony era. Comparing guitars by playing the same things on them is the way to go. One thing I'd like to see more of is giving specs like tonewoods, bracing patterns, scale length, nut width, materials in the neck, fretboard, nut, bride, saddle, etc. on your review videos.
@stellingbanjodude
@stellingbanjodude 4 жыл бұрын
I was expecting to prefer forward, but that rear shifted won me over
@MattieMattikins
@MattieMattikins 5 ай бұрын
Same haha
@mikew9537
@mikew9537 8 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one that likes to play OVER the sound hole? I wish these kinds of demonstrations would have the strumming position over the sound hole instead of behind. I think over gives a more truer sound, as the rear position makes any guitar sound tinny. I know this was about bracing, but I just thought I'd chime in on this. Hey, today is my Monday ;)
@johnbell1543
@johnbell1543 8 жыл бұрын
I like to strum and pick slightly rear of the soundhole,seems like the strings are a little tighter and easier to play chords.
@magnificentmask9601
@magnificentmask9601 6 жыл бұрын
playing over the soundhole is illegal in 37 states. wake up
@maraviyoso8473
@maraviyoso8473 6 жыл бұрын
Actually, he's playing the position most guitar teachers teach the students.
@JohnnyRebKy
@JohnnyRebKy 6 жыл бұрын
Mike W depends on the music brother. Over the soundhole for light articulate picking. To the rear for loud flat picking. Johnny Cash just picked all over the place lol. I’m a bluegrass picker so I like just rear of the sound hole for more volume and sharp picking. Slow mellow picking...think house of rising sun....definitely over the sound hole
@nuttoeo
@nuttoeo 8 жыл бұрын
I prefer rear-shifted to a standard x bracing. For me, I don't like forward one because of muddy bass response.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Muddy? Not on an 18 series
@cookiepuss4104
@cookiepuss4104 8 ай бұрын
Me too. To me the rear shifted sounds the most balanced and least scooped. I especially noticed how the mid range notes in the last comparison were more audible and even with the bass notes on the rear shifted guitar.
@51MontyPython
@51MontyPython 4 жыл бұрын
The rear-shifted seems the loudest (even if less bass), with the forward being the least loud. It's the opposite of what conventional wisdom says. For Rosewood comparison: 5:34 Forward 6:52 standard 5:51 Rear
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
These aren't rosewood
@LindaLooUK
@LindaLooUK 8 жыл бұрын
Thanks, this is a great comparison. I think I'd choose Standard or possibly Forward but in the last demo I preferred the Rear shifted for mid-range clarity...but I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed. :)
@jeotheraucous122
@jeotheraucous122 5 жыл бұрын
It’s crazy just how much difference that makes, I like the forward shifted bracing all the way👌
@Grant_Ferstat
@Grant_Ferstat 8 жыл бұрын
Great to see Corey here!
@johnreidroberts2838
@johnreidroberts2838 7 жыл бұрын
Still waiting on the HD-28 version of this video.
@Dackycat
@Dackycat 8 жыл бұрын
They all sound fantastic, and each has it's strong points, but if I had to choose only one it would be the standard, which has a nice blend of the other two and would in my style of playing be more versatile.
@ThisIsVao
@ThisIsVao 8 жыл бұрын
Hmmm... forward shift is my pick. Wow you can tell a difference in all 3 instruments! Thanks!!
@peterwoods35
@peterwoods35 6 жыл бұрын
Agree.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed
@JordansTake35
@JordansTake35 5 жыл бұрын
I enjoy the rear shifted. The bass and treble is more focused and punchy, the instrument as a whole becomes more percussive sounding which will push it through the mix. The bass response seems to have a quicker decay too which for most applications i think is more useful.
@Comradedad933
@Comradedad933 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly. Get a taylor then lol
@jimmy5634
@jimmy5634 8 жыл бұрын
When he was picking at the end the standard shifted bracing had a more in-your-face voice to it.
@krustybuzzard2477
@krustybuzzard2477 8 жыл бұрын
I like the center bracketing best it's more versital.next I'd go for the forward bracketing .you can always strum or play closer to the bridge.seems like it looses to much dynamics with the rear braces.
@davidharrick469
@davidharrick469 5 жыл бұрын
Great comparison, I have all three configurations with in my collection and as of lately I have really been leaning towards the forward shifted for it's robust tone . But I do find it easiest to sing along with the rear shifted were I don't end up pushing my voice to compete with the volume of the forward shifted.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah FS is just amazing with the 18 imo
@EviMlcak
@EviMlcak Ай бұрын
Forward shifted and standard sound remarkable, awesome!
@Grant_Ferstat
@Grant_Ferstat 8 жыл бұрын
More presence in the standard but to me it had a slightly less refined almost 'trashy' character. I actually liked the rear shifted given this comparison but that could also come down to the mic placement in the video...
@MauriceCondie
@MauriceCondie 8 жыл бұрын
I agree. Didn't expect to like the rear shifted, but it seemed to focus the sound, particularly in the bass, much more.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
I'm definitely for FS. But rear is nice at times. Standard sounds odd to me
@racerguy500
@racerguy500 6 жыл бұрын
As always it depends on what you are playing, how you are playing and what you prefer. Each has great sounds on different techniques. I think standard shift is better all around for versatility but I prefer the forward shifted for what I do. Great video comparison!!!!
@johnbell1543
@johnbell1543 8 жыл бұрын
I like the forward shifted sound ,more bass,more better.
@bobaldo2339
@bobaldo2339 5 жыл бұрын
I like the standard shifted best on the d-18. But surprisingly, I think I like the rear-shifted D-28 the best.
@brunocoelhobass
@brunocoelhobass 8 жыл бұрын
standard is more balanced. forward is muddy.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 6 жыл бұрын
brunocoelhobass Not muddy at all on a good guitar. My Martin is foward shifted with GE scalloped bracing on top of it. Which is light. I have mediums on it. NOT muddy.
@richardedwards5310
@richardedwards5310 6 жыл бұрын
The forward shift makes the 2018 D41 sound better than ever.
@kommi1974
@kommi1974 4 жыл бұрын
Why hello there Captain ignoramus.
@brunocoelhobass
@brunocoelhobass 4 жыл бұрын
@@el34glo59 my comment was based on what I heard in this video...
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
@@brunocoelhobass You're not completely wrong btw. It does impart a warmth that can get out of control. So my bad jumping on you. Apologies. I'm getting a custom sinker d18 made and have ro decide standard or forward. Can't make my mind up now, so you so have a point. After playing awhile now with it, it can get muddy
@TheGrasspond
@TheGrasspond 3 жыл бұрын
I started out thinking I would like the forward shifted. I listened several times. The standard shifted has a little more chime than the other two. I don’t know why it would have more than the forward shifted. But to my ears it’s distinctive. I have an om 28 marquis with adi top and GE scalloped forward bracing. I also have a 0000 21 custom with adi top and GE scalloped standard place brace. The OM with forward shit has more chime than 0000. Go figure.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah my 000-28 1937 custom authentic which has FS authentic scalloped bracing has a ton of chime. So who knows is right. I think sticking with FS is safe ona d18. On a 28 dread, I'd think about it .
@jnparesa
@jnparesa 8 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed hearing the rear shifted, seemed to have more bass. Although is the last part of this this video, the rear shifted sounded a bit more muddy. Perhaps different placement of microphone.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 6 жыл бұрын
Jon-Nolan Paresa I think u mean foward
@steveblanchard2712
@steveblanchard2712 6 жыл бұрын
The Standard brace one is just a better overall sound......punch, tonal depth, and tightness. All are good, but I suspect that the top on the standard braced guitar is a bit stiffer and livelier.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
I doubt it's stiffer. They would use a less stiff top on standard bracing if possible. Unless you're saying it just happens to have a better top on it and that's the reason. Then I agree
@BaktaBak3
@BaktaBak3 5 жыл бұрын
Prefer Standard or Forward sound .
@JohnnyRebKy
@JohnnyRebKy 6 жыл бұрын
Body shape plays a big role too as Gibson proved with the Advanced Jumbo. It’s forward shifted, scalloped, and has basically the same bracing as a 1936 model. Somehow the round shoulder of the Gibson maintains the punchy treble and a tighter bass while at the same time having monster volume. They are actually louder than most D28s but have a tighter sound. I had both a HD28V and AJ to play side by side and compare. I loved them both. Both VERY loud guitars with tons of bluegrassin’ power! However despite the forward shift, rosewood, and long scale of the AJ it was a more focused loud guitar. The Martin was a powerful cannon and the Gibson was more of a high powered rifle with great tonal precision. The AJ was a bit louder too if you just banged on them to see who was louder. After a few months I decided to keep the Gibson AJ...one being they are so rare to see or even hear about. Most have no clue Gibson made a loud booming guitar to compete with the D28 back in 1936-37. Sadly Gibson stopped production of the AJ unless it’s a special run model. However I can’t wait to try a new HD28 with the new forward shifted bracing. I loved the HD28V I had but never could bond with the V neck. Now I can have a awesome Martin with the original pre war style bracing without the damn V neck and have my Advanced Jumbo to compliment it :). HD28 and a AJ together what more could a man wish for !
@Ziraffe2
@Ziraffe2 8 жыл бұрын
Excellent and plain demonstration. All 3 very fine guitars, , , I go' for the forward shifted. In fact I'm already there with my HD-28V. Look FORWARD to hear the 3 28's.Thanx
@kinghootchie863
@kinghootchie863 Жыл бұрын
Watched the right hand (strum) to see where it hit, and it was identical for each guitar. Nice job. Because, if you move the pick back towards the bridge, the 'brighter" it'll get (and the opposite if you move forward with the pick). I think where this guy strums the guitar could be called the 'sweet spot'. That's where the best tones will present themselves. You can tell this guy has played a while. Interesting video. Thanks for making it.
@meljames52
@meljames52 8 жыл бұрын
Great comparison... can you tab our those rythms?
@TheAcousticLetter
@TheAcousticLetter 8 жыл бұрын
Sorry, we don't have any tabs from Corey but you can take lessons from him online... truefire.com/educators/corey-congilio/e4200 -Chad
@rstevenhanson
@rstevenhanson 5 жыл бұрын
They all sound like acoustic steel guitars to me. My point being, each guitar serves a different purpose. I think the rear shifted is probably better for recording and live performances, but in a room by yourself, you want that bass.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
😉
@stevec.1802
@stevec.1802 3 жыл бұрын
Rear shifted and standard X to me ears and experience.
@THUNDERWORX
@THUNDERWORX 6 жыл бұрын
I like em all!!!
@WysteriaGuitar
@WysteriaGuitar 6 жыл бұрын
They are all great but I prefer forward shifted cause my ears like the extra bass.
@JordansTake35
@JordansTake35 4 жыл бұрын
Forward shifted guitars have to be good or else tge bass becomes wobbly and makes the whole guitar sound out of tune. But a great one will bloom and blend and be incredible but they are rare and hard to find, even from great companies like martin. Rear shifted guitars produce a punchier sound and are more consistent.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Same
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
@@JordansTake35 They're not that rare to find man. Martin makes some unbelievable FS guitars. I never found my models wobbly. Rear is risky imo. Too stiff a top with rear is easy to run into. If go standard if I was trying to be "safe". Even standard with a stiff Addy top and Mahogany is pushing it imo. Hog needs that FS. ROSEWOOD I'd agree with you
@keithkaufman2999
@keithkaufman2999 7 жыл бұрын
rear shifted is cleaner, articulate, note separation.....
@JLHill91
@JLHill91 3 жыл бұрын
Forward shifted sounds best by far
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Rich yet still defined
@jacquescousteau217
@jacquescousteau217 2 жыл бұрын
Guys a couple of issues . Are you using the same brand,and same gauge strings ? That’s a big deal. Forward shifting has the cross of scalloped bracing about 1 inch from sound hole. Standard bracing are about 2 inches from sound hole. Backward shifting is close to 4.5 inches from sound hole. The forward shifting gives the bulk of the dread nut body a lot of open space,and the bass is really upfront because of this. Great if you want a loud projecting rhythm instrument . Standard is a great hybrid well balanced . Back shifted is very good for really hitting the attack hard. - bluegrass - Ps. I was surprised to see a forward braced D 18 . Are they stock production ?
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure standard is 1.5 inches. And almost every 18 is fs at this point nowadays. Whether its stick, ge, authentic, custom, etc
@markbarnes6806
@markbarnes6806 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't think D-18s, D-28s or D-35s employed scalloped bracing?
@sewing1243
@sewing1243 7 жыл бұрын
Do each of the bracing styles have any positive or negative effects of a Guitar's stability and longevity (example: the dreaded acoustical guitar "belly" effect at the back of the bridge found after string tension has worked on the guitar over time)?
@TheSilence1
@TheSilence1 6 жыл бұрын
The rear shifted guitars are the least likely to develop problems with the top. The forward shifted guitars are the most likely to develop problems. The standard guitars are middle of the road.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
You're gonna get answers like FS causes more issues with too, but etc. Not true. Rear braced guitars actually have more instances of bracing coming loose than any other style. People don't know that because they focus on the belly. No matter what bracing position, scalloped bracing will give you a belly. Rear braced, it will be more concentrated right behind the tbe bridge and cause dimples in the top at times because of that. Forward shifted will cashew a more gradual belly across the back. Which is actually better imo
@josejcastaneda5826
@josejcastaneda5826 6 жыл бұрын
Are the braces scalloped in these guitars?
@TheAcousticLetter
@TheAcousticLetter 6 жыл бұрын
Yes, they are all scalloped.
@Em_Dee_Aitch
@Em_Dee_Aitch 2 жыл бұрын
1. Standard 2. Rear 3. Forward
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
Wow. Never seen someone that dislikes forward that much. Especially over Mahogany
@xetexuk12
@xetexuk12 8 жыл бұрын
good vid demonstrating the differences, thanks
@Zampan0
@Zampan0 10 ай бұрын
Standard,- "A perfect combination of the two".
@jaredfreeman8572
@jaredfreeman8572 7 жыл бұрын
Do the same with a 28😍
@SimoneOrtisi
@SimoneOrtisi 4 жыл бұрын
To me, in this video, sounds better rear shifted.
@mariodriessen9740
@mariodriessen9740 5 жыл бұрын
Yet another really interesting video. Thanks! They all sounded very good. I think I have a slight preference for the rear shifted version. I'm a simple strummer and I believe the higher frequencies suit my way of playing better. However, I wouldn't be sad if someone would be kind enough to give me one of the other two. ;-)
@CocoKoi321
@CocoKoi321 8 жыл бұрын
Rear shifted I can tell right off the bat It has a more open midrange Standard idk, it seems more balanced
@magnificentmask9601
@magnificentmask9601 6 жыл бұрын
absolutely no one in the audience can ever tell the difference and most guitarists also
@RaysTrack
@RaysTrack 6 жыл бұрын
Good video - so nice not to have to listen to and watch a long and inappropriate 'wassup' intro. Good job. Forward or Standard for me :-)
@roymeyer6837
@roymeyer6837 8 жыл бұрын
This is one of your best videos to date in the post-Tony era. Comparing guitars by playing the same things on them is the way to go. One thing I'd like to see more of is giving specs like tonewoods, bracing patterns, scale length, nut width, materials in the neck, fretboard, nut, bride, saddle, etc.
@75vettemaon
@75vettemaon 4 жыл бұрын
I love this video. Thank you.
@Robert_Fordin
@Robert_Fordin 5 жыл бұрын
Forward shifted is my choice.
@reverendmississippi
@reverendmississippi 6 жыл бұрын
I trust martin they didnt shift it fot no reason
@JohnnyRebKy
@JohnnyRebKy 6 жыл бұрын
reverendmississippi they did it because that’s what the original Martins had in the 1930s that made Martin so loved. There were no amps back then so volume had to be achieved naturally. Problem was guys started putting huge strings on them and structure problems began to arise. That’s the only reason forward shift went away back then. Today medium strings are the largest for a acoustic guitar and forward shifted bracing can handle mediums just fine. It’s a return to the sound and design that made the D28 for example the standard all other guitars are held to. Old 1930s Martins cost A LOT of money because of age AND the sound they produced from that original forward shifted bracing. Now Martin is giving us new guitars that are braced like the originals that sound so fantastic!! A few years ago you had to spend a lot more money to get a forward shifted D28 by buying the HD28V which was almost 4 thousand bucks. Now we can get a HD28 for a lot less and enjoy that 1930s style bracing. It’s a win win :)
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
@@JohnnyRebKy yeah FS is the best imo if done right
@jeffbryan3224
@jeffbryan3224 6 жыл бұрын
I preferred the first one I think.... NOT For the bass though.... I gotta go and listen again....
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 6 жыл бұрын
Rear shifted sounds terrible imo. Never liked it.
@michaelrose1069
@michaelrose1069 7 жыл бұрын
I VOTE FOR THE REAR SHIFTED
@lgiorgos1
@lgiorgos1 6 жыл бұрын
Imo. Rear bracing sounds like my cheap Sigma(Martin copy). Standard and forward are clearly on another level. Having said that I would say that I prefer the standard, it has more articulate sound and is more even across the strings and fretboard. The forward isn't bad, and in many cases more preferable than the standard. For a solo singer player is probably the forward a better choice.
@mad3arber
@mad3arber 8 жыл бұрын
rear 😎
@roymeyer6837
@roymeyer6837 8 жыл бұрын
I was surprised to find myself enjoying the sound of the rear. Usually I like a lot of bass response from a dread but it's hard to argue with the balanced sound!
@helionasc1232
@helionasc1232 6 жыл бұрын
Loveeeeeee
@cybernautsterranautsandast2151
@cybernautsterranautsandast2151 8 жыл бұрын
I creamed my jeans for standard.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
👍👍
@timparker8297
@timparker8297 8 жыл бұрын
would still prefer my Taylor, anyday.
@Contact_Info
@Contact_Info 7 жыл бұрын
Tim Parker what model?
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 6 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't. But glad you found a good one.
@reverendmississippi
@reverendmississippi 6 жыл бұрын
I played every taylor in my store nothing compared to the 2017d28so i bought one
@reverendmississippi
@reverendmississippi 6 жыл бұрын
Top end taylor can not beat the d18 and no chance with 28
@riffrobin474
@riffrobin474 5 жыл бұрын
Ive played a lot of taylors and they sound great and some play great too....as long as you dont play it right alongside a Martin...then you know what we are talking about. But by themselves they can be wonderful.
@philipchung9492
@philipchung9492 4 жыл бұрын
Useless comparison.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
My ass it's useless. Bracing positioning is one of the most important aspects
@philipchung9492
@philipchung9492 2 жыл бұрын
@@el34glo59 So why not make all guitars with the better bracing pattern and position.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 2 жыл бұрын
@@philipchung9492 What better position? There is no better. It's all preference. Do you want more warmth yet power without having to dig in hard? While being loud af? With alot of bass? FS. Do you want more balance but still headroom and bass? Maybe better highs? Standard Do you want a ton of midrange and need to cut through really loud with that midrange? Bright with less bass? Rear Also, they will age differently. The standard and rear will eventually get bass. The FS could get bass heavy to the point of too much down the road if it didn't start with great highs. Its all preference. Also FS will have more issues with the top belly. Doesn't mean ot will have an issue. But morr susceptible. I always was on the FS boat. But I'm getting a custom d18 sinker made and I'm actually thinking about Standard. Sure some of the best Martin guitars are prewar and FS. However I've heard a standard without scalloping on top of it from the late 40s that might be the best d18 I've ever heard. So it all depends on what you're looking for and how long you can wait for things to develop
@philipchung9492
@philipchung9492 2 жыл бұрын
@@el34glo59 BIG COMPANIES PEDDLING SNAKE OIL AND PEOPLE ARE FALLING FOR IT. I REMEMBER STICKING MY HAND INTO A '76 D28 TO SCALLOP THE BRACES TRYING TO IMPROVE THE VERY MUDDY GUITAR. NEH. THESE DAYS I BUILD CLASSICAL GUITARS AND I ONLY USE LATTICE BRACING.
@el34glo59
@el34glo59 Жыл бұрын
​​​​​​​@@philipchung9492No. And you don't scallop braces to make something less muddy. Also 70s Martins are literally the worst time in Martins history. I'm glad you like Classical guitars. Has absolutely nothing do with snake oil though. Scalloping, strait, etc. All have different tones. It actually costs more to get a non scalloped custom today at Martin. Because fs scalloped is the new standard. So much for snake oil. Best guitars in history from the 30s must have been peddling snake oil too 😂 Saying bracing position and scalloping doesn't matter is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Thanks. It's all part of building a guitar to the tone you like. But you definitely know more than Martin so... Peddling snake oil 😂 Thanks for the reply btw . I wrote out a thorough and concise statement and was polite and you don't even talk about any of the points I've made. Just come back with how you tried go scallop a 70s Martin that probably had a rosewood bridge plate the size of my car, and now make classical guitars.... Btw small builders are using the EXACT same techniques and bracing. So much for big companies and snake oil
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