My Complicated Relationship With Sonic Adventure

[@p4rvo]

I think just HAVING a hub to chill instead of a level select was "enough" at the time, i remember walking around mystic ruins just for the heck of it much like Mario 64

[@rodicamoraru3922]

Personly i think the hub's în adventure sucked

[@rafaliciousbmx]

@@rodicamoraru3922 they are better than nothing!

[@jaioncebollero1168]

I love them

[@dougr8646]

Ok but when are you formulating this opinion? Nowadays, sure,they suck. When they came out? They were amazing

[@joshuamwamlima]

The music 🤤

[@thatonemanbehindthegarbage7126]

“Besides Sonic’s, Knuckles and Gamma are my favorite stories” I already know how the potential SA2 video is going to play out now.

[@saricubra2867]

The next video (maybe): "SA2 mech sections aren't as solid like the Gamma ones, Knuckles stages are a chore and the change to the radar doesn't make sense, Tails in a mech is out of place" . Then he will come back to SA1 and appreciate it more, who knows...

[@thatonemanbehindthegarbage7126]

Star masterc Naw I’d probably be “ While Gamma controls better, the stages in SA2 are better designed and fit more. Knuckles stages fit him way better than before because they are designed for him even with the nerfed emerald radar.” “While some may not like Tails being in a mech I think it’s a fine progression of the character and implements his genius mind in gameplay and it makes sense that’d he’d need more firepower so him being in a mech is fine” This is probably what’s gonna happen you see. I’m not gonna disagree or agree with it. This is just what’s gonna happen.

[@saricubra2867]

@@thatonemanbehindthegarbage7126 Then you show him the Rouge levels and he will destroy them, or he can also go like "Sonic levels started to deviate from the classics with more use of spectacle and more linearity" or how big Meteor Heard is, or the backtracking in Eggman's Base... He also changes his opinions for bias, also clear with his Zelda videos.

[@Laurmachi]

There are a bunch of problems with the mech stages in SA2, but Gamma's stages are just.... Bleh. They are almost always way too short.

[@avenkaru]

You say potential but you mean inevitable

[@BorderlandSkylights]

Gamma not being represented in the final story is part of the point. You're supposed to feel that emptiness, that someone is missing. His heroism is the antithesis to Sonic's. It isn't proud, boisterous, or glorious. It is melancholic, isolating, and will not be remembered. No one saw his deeds, nor his sacrifice. But it was still important. It mattered to him, and in the end, he was able to make a difference no matter how small it was. The crowning moment is how you barely even see the flicky set free as the camera represents his consciousness fading out. It's certainly no masterpiece, but I think the crticising Gamma not being represented at the end misses the point.

[@TheKeven28900]

Technically a part of Gamma was in sonic's final story. When amy gives sonic a chaos emerald, you can see a pink flicky with her. That's the flicky that was in Gamma.

[@Barrowsbro86]

"This must be the way to the *sky deck* " says sonic as his model randomly does a 180.

[@saricubra2867]

Also with japanese lip sync.

[@Meepmeep189]

This is what happens with they stop Sonic on a slope and the stage physics are trying to push him off the slope.

[@deathray252]

And then you spin dash into sky deck a second before the cut scene ends because the game lets you, play the level, then find yourself eternally confined to the monorail hub of the egg carrier. Since you’re trapped in that room and time is frozen, chaos never gets all the chaos emeralds and station square continues to exist genocide-free, so I consider this the good ending to the game

[@Swaggless]

I think you meant to say Chaos was a "BENevolent" being. "Malevolent" means that it's bad or wants to do bad. "Benevolent" means it's good or wants to do good.

[@KingKlonoa]

Yes, this is what I meant to say.

[@EthanLR]

Who's Ben?

[@percher4824]

@@EthanLR Weird guy, lives down the street. Think I saw him eating glue once, which really explains some things.

[@TigerWolf111]

@@percher4824 $10 says he drowns and a creepy pasta is made of him using a hacked Majora's Mask

[@mightyraccoon7155]

@@EthanLR Spider-Man’s uncle

[@Cheezmonka]

Tails could work in 3D if his levels were objective-based or required some other form of exploration instead of being built around getting from Point A to Point B.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Just make his flying so floaty in momentum that flying becomes a challenge instead of shallow.

[@mep6302]

They should have implemented his flying like in the classics. But instead of mashing one button, maintain that button and that's it. He wouldn't be that broken

[@Melkac]

A collect-a-thon style gameplay would fix perfectly.

[@Netherman14TheHellblazer]

Sonic Project Hero demonstrates how Tails can work well in 3D in terms of mechanics and gameplay.

[@radioactivehuman1684]

@@Netherman14TheHellblazer Yeah project hero has a circle of energy that runs out so Tails flying isnt too OP but level designing for him might be harder than it is for Sonic to utilize all his mechanics

[@stevezac_cptlpnshmnt]

I remember being so let down playing Sonic Adventure 2 and having no Hub World :( To me, the RPG elements of Sonic Adventure are what make it so special!

[@kezisthename]

i loved this game as a kid, running around the Mystic Ruins when i was ten felt so much bigger than it really was. I used to stare off at the Eggman base and just watch the lights and stuff from the ruins. Now as an adult i know it's mostly just a small hub area, but at the time, it felt huge. That's the kind of feeling SA1 brings up in my head.

[@pyrrhickong]

I really love the pacing of this video. The unabashed passion toward the 'good' portion of the game coming at the front, whilst still dissecting it to an insane degree and level of care, is so refreshing after a decade of videos starting with "Sonic the Hedgehog has a rocky relationship with 3D". It's a kind of devil-may-care attitude that fits the subject and enhances the video as a whole. Just wanted to say I really liked that. Sonic Adventure is a video game. I can sit here and say it's over-ambitious, Sega throwing everything they had out at once and only a little bit of it sticking in spite of their best efforts, something that aged terribly due to that "and the kitchen sink" approach that would be super enamoring to kids (and Hell, me when I picked up DX), but frankly, you and others have said it better. But Hell if I don't talk and think about this game often, probably even more than if it ironed out its kinks. I want to talk about the idea of why Big the Cat is even in this game and imitate his stupid voice at any given excuse. I want to look at the Sonic stages that work and WHY they work so well. I want to zone out to the Mystic Ruins theme and ramp off of the geometry freely and compare that to the courtyard in Peach's Castle. I want to listen to every character's unique theme being based off of its own genre and how that's reflective of them and makes me care about them more as characters when I associate them with a character song. I want more Sonic Adventure, in spite of it being Sonic Adventure. And considering the ultimate end of the Dreamcast, I think that's kind of a prophetic and beautiful thing. It's hard for me to think of media that is simultaneously a hilarious failure but also a monstrous and endearing success, or at least anything that shines brighter than this game.

[@saricubra2867]

I still play Sonic Adventure to this day on PC, with an insane amount of mods to match the magical experience of the original Dreamcast release. (The PC port is extremely bad, using mods to fix the bugs of DX and restore the original dreamcast lighting, textures and other BS lmao).

[@Artersa]

Star masterc I’d love to hear more about these mods.

[@saricubra2867]

@@Artersa It's easy, Sonic Adventure ports are like Star Wars's Special Editions, each one ruining the original one with new glitches and nonsensical changes and collision issues... Better SADX or Dreamcast conversion mod fixes the mess with DX (poor scripting for some loops and more), currently now i have 0 glitches with the game only with the exception of the snake in Lost World, it still looks glitchy compared to the original on the Dreamcast. Also, i have reshade installed on the game, looks beautiful, the sound quality is also perfect with the original sound files from the dreamcast, OG DX has sound bugs awful sound quality...

[@saricubra2867]

@@Artersa There is a beta version of Windy Valley that doesn't have that straight line like the final version in the game. You can mod the game to have the original one, the level is very big, like a Genesis one, who knows why it doesn't show up in the final product. You can also have SA2 style of lightspeed dash, i love that the game still has a lot of life to this day, isn't Sonic Mania's modding scene but it's amazing. I never had so much fun playing SA1 before, i'm doing Tails story right now, *PC Master Race* .

[@dreamcastdazia4753]

@@saricubra2867 they changed it cause of tails and gamma gameplay I think.

[@nova338]

A couple years ago, I was working as an after-hours janitor for office buildings. I'd spend hours cleaning huge buildings by myself late into the evening with nothing but my earbuds to keep me sane. And my favorite thing to listen to were KingK videos. They were perfect for keeping me engaged and invested for hours at a time. I must have listened to that Twilight Princess video five different times, not because I agreed with everything that was said, but because it was just so interesting and fun to hear this guy analyze something he loves. Every time KingK uploads a video, I get thrown back to that admittedly tough part of my life, but these videos were always a highlight. Honestly makes me a bit nostalgic. So thanks, KingK, for the great content. Also hell yeah I loved this game as a kid. I gotta go say hi to my Chao named Booger.

[@OniLordMiki]

What are you doing now if you don't mind me asking?

[@paulmaloney4387]

@@OniLordMiki That young janitor grew up to become Barack Obama

[@carterhurt1910]

@@OniLordMiki Funny enough I was curious about that as well.

[@MasonOfLife]

Honestly we often forget that the feeling a game gives us is the most important thing....no game is perfect but we can still have tons of fun with imperfect games, be immersed into them, enjoy the places you go and things you do despite them being flawed Like or hate certain games, lets never forget the impact they can have on our hearts, good games or bad...I’m sure we’ve all played “bad” games that we absolutely loved

[@Blueshellkyle]

My favorite game of all time is Final Fantasy 8 and I think it’s terrible. Nothing else makes me feel the way it does, and I love it for that.

[@saricubra2867]

@@Blueshellkyle I always disliked Zelda 1 and Zelda Wind Waker as overall packages but there are people that think they are good. I also don't find Breath of The Wild good compared to Twilight Princess by the story and dungeons alone but still people can enjoy BOTW. Never liked 3D Mario by the collectathon formula with the exception of 3D World, still they can be enjoyable.

[@saricubra2867]

@@Blueshellkyle This not only happens in gaming, the same is true for film like the whole Star Wars franchise which is extremely silly and sometimes stupid but that is also a reason or why people may enjoy it (taking the bad acting, dialogue and other BS aside) .

[@Blueshellkyle]

Twilight Princess is such an under appreciated Zelda game, it’s my favorite too! I don’t ever want another game like. BotW and at face value it seems alien, but when I’m playing it FEELS just as Zelda as anything else and I love it for what it is. Man, feeling things about games without dissecting game mechanics is crazy. I do really like KingK’s approach to retrospectives though.

[@khrinalekill-thebloodspira2531]

i agree to a certain degree i love the protoype series even though objectively they aren't that good at story telling and it feels like it was mashed together

[@JapanFreak2595]

I’m just gonna say...I really dig interacting with humans in Sonic games. The neat little side stories were always pretty engaging to me in Adventure and especially in Unleashed, and crashing in on the president’s limo was just too cool. It all felt like Sonic’s world was one where human’s and anthropomorphic animals lived together even if the talking animal population was spars from the player’s POV. This just my warped take on things after all. I’m someone who loved the life like people in Mario Odyssey and the weird clashing contrast of Port Royal in KH2, so take my perspective as you will.

[@BlueRainbow101]

Big agree. The anime-esque or cartoony humans in Adventure and Unleashed are really great, 06.. not so much (too bad everyone always thinks of these guys first). As a kid, interacting with all these people in the games made me feel that much closer to Sonic's world. It makes you think "our worlds are basically the same, if they can have adventures so can I!". The games and, well even the tv shows if we're counting X, do a great job of inspiring the audience.

[@koga115]

I wholeheartedly agree

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

Fully agreed. Also the Port Royal haters are just blinded by time. That games “hyper-real” graphics held up really well at the time. Model-wise, it’s not like it’s worse than something like MGS2

[@succubastard1019]

Agreed. The idea of a super powerful humanoid hedgehog in a human world is hilarious to watch and IMO having Sonic in a world 100% made up of animal people makes him and the rest of the cast look less special in cmparison.

[@crossedbells]

I really like how they foreshadow the trains protest with the employee worker early in the game and when it happens the npcs start throwing commentary about the morality of protest. It was so funny to me I didn't expect it at all lmao

[@DonYagamoth]

Just watched the intro, and would like to mention: - My friend had a Dreamcast with Sonic Adventure, and I later had a Gamecube with Sonic Adventure 2, and we absolutely loved those games to pieces, and played them a ton. We didn't mind one bit how janky they were, we actually enjoyed figuring out shortcuts, whether they were intended or not, using weird high jumps, just flying down directly to the goal, etc. Plus, at least for the Dreamcast, it was a real adventure, since we didn't have a memory card, we had to replay everything over and over again each day. Each day we got a little further, figured out new places to go, then we unlocked a new character, got a little further step by step, and eventually got good enough to beat all the stories in one sitting, to reach the finale. It was awesome ^^

[@antant6217]

the only entertainment i get from sa1 anymore is glitching the game to pieces, most notably with wrong warping fighting egg viper as amy and seeing all the game lockups makes the game a lovable, janky mess. i don't really like any of the gameplay modes (only like about half of sonic's gameplay) but god i've spent tons of hours just glitching around and admiring the strangeness that is sa1

[@TackyRackyComixNEO]

Not having a memory card certainly must've made it easy to trade off with who gets to play the game.

[@mastuhyeet6422]

I didn't have a memory card with my dreamcast and I did the exact same thing. I optimized my runs and attempted to beat the game without breaking my console lol.

[@PersTG]

@@antant6217 How the hell did you do that on SA1DC? Couldn't have been SA1DC unless it was the Japanese version. It could be SADX or you're just using a Game Genie or something. Pretty crazy

[@antant6217]

@@PersTG well, wrong warping to every level as amy and gamma is possible on ps3 but afaik only sonic can wrong warp in dc if you break his super sonic file, which makes hedgehog hammer his "hub" and leaving the hub sends him to the last level you selected in trial mode.

[@elesfinter9753]

I played Sonic Adventure for the first time recently and I loved it... yes it have aged but still there's a lot of fun in this game. Ps. I really liked Tails' levels because of how stupidly broken they are, after playing those levels with Sonic why would I wanted to play them again the in the same way but with another character? It felt like a "god mode" in an RPG

[@Jasonwolf1495]

You might doubt this, but my favorite part actually was the hub world and running to tails workshop. I didn't like actual sonic, so running around an open world was way more fun to me.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Me too.I just loved the insane momentum of the spindash.

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

THANK YOU. Sonic Adventure has more to offer than its main gameplay and story, and God bless it for that.

[@ctpp64]

Yeah just chilling in the hubs and talking with the NPCs honestly is nice. It makes the game feel much bigger and alive, and its it's nice to not constantly be thrown into stages like sa2

[@RusianSpy]

28:11 "What is your favorite part of Sonic Adventure, genuinely?" The Adventure Fields, actually. 28:23 "Or is it running to Tails' Workshop?" Yes...

[@juliamcclaysy829]

same I as a kid loved the adventure field the most

[@Qjimbo]

You're making me re-evaluate this game in a big way. I honestly never thought to explore the levels in the way you demonstrate here because I was so scared of falling into oblivion which was just so easy in this game. It seems that Adventure rewards exploration in ways I just didn't know about.

[@normalgraham]

I played through SA with the same mentality, it pissed me off to no end to find out it could be played so carefreely! 😂

[@Simianking2]

The unabashed love of Jun Senoue hit me on a spiritual level. Great analysis as always, but really appreciated you sharing the deeply personal relationship that you and many others share with the game. Excited to see the Sonic Adventure 2 video that I'm sure is in the works

[@MagicSpartan1992]

"Let's start with Sonic Adventure" *Open Your Heart starts* *me nodding in agreement to the choice* Great opening!

[@kieranstark7213]

Ngl, I dreamed of putting Sonic Adventure’s opening on my list of “Top 100 Greatest Gaming Openings”! But the game itself... I COULD put it as an honorable mention of “Top 100 Greatest Video Games of All Time”, just as long as it’s the DreamCast version (it’s hands-down the best Sonic Adventure game, but while it is undoubtedly a 3D Sonic game done right like Unleashed and Generations, it doesn’t change that they’re all far from perfect).

[@joshshrum2764]

Stergios Steven Argyrakos Yeah i knew that was going to happen.

[@smashmaster521]

@@kieranstark7213 I grew up with the Gamecube version, and it still holds up remarkably well. I don't know why everyone says the Gamecube version is an inferior port.

[@telesticHarlequin]

@@smashmaster521 the gamecube port has weird lighting and has a lot of exclusive and unpleasant glitches, thats p much the gist of it

[@GeekCritique]

HOT DAMN, this was fantastic! Especially as a younger fan whose nostalgia primarily lies with the 3D entries, it was... nice to hear you come to terms with the flaws inherent to this game, and ultimately come to a similar conclusion about it that most older Sonic fans do. Gives me hope that we might, eventually, reach a little bit better of a consensus, or at least be able to see where others are coming from. Can't wait to see how you'll process SA2! You probably won't be surprised, but I also really appreciated that acknowledgment that despite how it felt to you as a kid, the problems the series has had with its reputation and reception really did start with the transition to 3D. WAAAAAAY too many people want to blame that stuff on freakin' KZbinrs and whatnot, but these were problems the series was struggling with years before KZbin was ever a thing. Some people (like me!) loved 'em, but I remember, tons of other people hated 'em. In fact, GameSpot's 2002 review of SA2: Battle is literally where the "rocky transition" line comes from: "Sonic's transition from one dimension to the next has been a rocky one, and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle fails to recapture the franchise's magic." Critically, the early 3D games never enjoyed the widespread acclaim that the earlier 2D games enjoyed, and as a mascot platformer who was "supposed" to rival Mario, that's what Sonic was always compared against. That's why Sonic Team has felt the need to reinvent the 3D series over and over again to try to make SOMETHING stick in the mainstream like the classics did, and... I mean, HERE WE ARE 22 years later, it's a problem we're still dealing with! And hey, I'm probably just blinded by MY nostalgia (cause like, I think this is the only 3D Sonic that I've got THAT kind of childhood connection to), but I still think Tails is pretty all right. Using flight to break linear 3D stages and finding aerial paths to DO that is still a lot of fun, though after listening to your analysis and really looking at the footage, I do think it signposts with flight rings WAY too much. But still, it's a nice first effort, and like SO many aspects of this game, it was never really attempted again with the same intent.

[@MerelyAFan]

What's also worth noting about the reception to SA1 was that it was also a period where the 3D plaformer was still pretty competitive even outside Mario. By the time of the Dreamcast's launch in the US, Banjo Kazooie, three Crash Bandicoot games, the first Spyro title, and loads of mid-range platform games on both N64 & PSX had come out. Adventure's broader inclusion of various gameplay styles as opposed to a focus on one or two meant it would be judged against other games of its time that (for better or for worse) had a tighter emphasis on a particular type of play.

[@KingKlonoa]

Sorry, got around to this way too late! Thank you for the comment, glad I managed to better acknowledge other perspectives. That is something I've tried my best to improve about my writing. I used to be very closeminded.

[@sojiro856]

Sonic has had bad games since the 90s. I have played older Sonic games and still find Sonic Adventure to be still enjoyable at times. Most of the older fans seem to wear rose-tinted glasses and seem to forget the horrible Game Gear and Genesis Sonic games that came out between 1992 to 1997 and think these older games are some how like Sonic 2, 3, and Mania. I am not even a Sonic fan, but I have been around before Sonic debuted and have played these newer and older games in stores and on newer consoles.

[@saricubra2867]

@@sojiro856 Also, i dislike Sonic 1&2 on the Genesis. Both don't have a saving system and playing through all the levels all over again when you die constantly feels like padding, meanwhile you can save in Super Mario World and also you have a map. I honestly and truly believe that SA1 has the best pacing overall of any Sonic game ever made if i don't include Sonic Mania and Sonic 3 AIR, also, if you don't like a playstyle, you can choose another one, this is honestly the only true nonlinear story focused action adventure platformer that i know and nothing will beat that, SA2 removed the hubworlds and has a map (which is already far superior to the genesis games) but i don't like the pacing, it feels more like artificial transitions between cutscenes and gameplay styles unlike the consistency in SA1. I like SA1 so much, it's my favorite Sonic game ever overall, it has almost everything that i always wanted, Sonic Mania can be very close but there is Sonic 3 AIR.

[@saricubra2867]

@@DemaGraphexTube *Tails is very broken in any game* ,i kinda see it as a nonsensical nitpick, pick up for example Green Hill Zone or many of Sonic 3 levels, you can skip many of those leves due to the momentum, speed and high verticality. I only play as Sonic in the classic games, i guess the "stupid friends" even applies to some of the Genesis games, since Sonic 1 only has Sonic. Every other game introduced a new character, this is a common pattern that always happens if you like it or not. I agree with points of the video, but others like this one about tails is a contradiction. The only game that can nail design for Tails is Sonic Mania but that happens because the levels are HUGE and a lot of things going on which sometimes makes Sonic 3 look like Sonic CD or Sonic Forces. Sonic fans are like Star Wars fans, both equally s*ck .

[@bababobo5067]

Oh, and if I had to say what my genuine favorite part of the Adventure games were/are, it’s how the characters and stories are. As in, it actually cared to give them personality and thoughts and goals. The stories were also different and more urgent than the type you’d see in you run of the mill platformer. I love how much character the two Adventure games had. That’s why I’d love it if Ian Flynn got to write for a game. He actually cares to use the characters and to have the stories be engaging, because the characters themselves are invested in what’s happening.

[@alexthew]

Well guess who got to write for a sonic game...

[@ValerieSparrowW]

well..guess your wish came true

[@shinigamisway1645]

And it was fucking incredible. SONIC IS BACK, BABY

[@RainbowLizardOne]

stop being rude to big the cat he's a good boy his levels just suck

[@aBDKstan]

how do people actually like such an obnoxious and unfunny character?

[@theminecraft2516]

His emerald coast level is actually quite relaxing

[@saricubra2867]

@@aBDKstan Try to ask Star Wars fans with Jar Jar Binks, the ewoks and porgs.

[@Laurmachi]

He's innocent I would say. His gameplay sucks, but it's not like he's doing anything bad when it comes to character.

[@suicidalfetusx]

Froggy?

[@Anon_wulf]

"You think you can keep up with me?*literally one second after* What? He caught up??" -Dr.Eggman

[@PowerStar004]

TAILS WAIT FOR ME!!!!

[@BoundlessDRK]

Honestly never even thought about the transitions being "acts" as it were, that really shows just how seamless they were, damn.

[@Tronk_]

It feels good to watch a Sonic video that doesn’t hit all the cliché beats of “WOAH GUYS 3D SONIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN rOuGh LoL!!! Also did you guys know that Big the Cat was not a good part of the game? Surely you haven’t been online for the past 6 years right??!?!?” I also fuckin vibe out hard with you on that Spotify playlist dude, 20% of my biggest playlist is full of Sonic music. Also the fact that you Naruto running was unironically part of an official KingK production was a special kind of magic. I needed this today, thanks so much and I cannot wait for Adventure 2!

[@kieranstark7213]

3D Sonic has frequently been rough with games like Sonic Free Riders, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic Forces, Sonic ‘06, Sonic Chronicles, Sonic 4: Episode 1 and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric., but I too have to admit, the Sonic Adventure duology (DC) isn’t the only time in the franchise 3D Sonic has gone the right direction since there’s also Colors, Generations, Unleashed and Sonic Riders’ predecessors.

[@saricubra2867]

@@kieranstark7213 "Colours..." Press b to win with straight lines isn't what i call good Sonic gameplay or stage design. Only SA1&2 nailed it, specially SA1.

[@kieranstark7213]

Star masterc Yeah, I get your point, but personally, Colors is a guilty pleasure because while its story is very lacking, its graphics and soundtrack are so colourful they make up for it!

[@khrinalekill-thebloodspira2531]

@@kieranstark7213 sonic 4 episode 1 is NOT a 3D sonic game in the slightest but i agree with the rest 3d implies being able to move in a 3d space which sonic 4 doesn't it just has 3d models that is like saying super mario bros wii is a 3d game

[@kieranstark7213]

KhrinaleKill - the blood spiral I just meant the visuals of Sonic 4 were made to be 3D. But I get it.

[@latch_official]

"This is only a satisfying tale when read on a wiki" is SUCH a fitting line for this game's story

[@saricubra2867]

I feel the same for Zelda Breath of The Wild's story compared to Twilight Princess. I have more fun reading the story than playing the game for that.

[@Harrinsain]

Sonic Adventure's story is like the Star Wars prequels. Everything makes perfect sense on paper, and is actually really interesting, but in execution, it was really messy

[@smashmaster521]

@@Harrinsain So does that make the stories of games like Lost World and Forces like the Star Wars sequels because of how they spit in the faces of the fans?

[@rainpooper7088]

smashmaster521 At least the Star Wars sequels were somewhat ambitious. The writing in most of the post-2010 Sonic games wasn’t because ambition is cringe or something like that.

[@stepheng8061]

Or when explained by a slobbering fanboy on message boards or KZbin

[@AnthonyCSN]

Why have I never noticed that giant ass rocket jammed into the side of that clock tower at 44:11!!! lol

[@TheReZisTLust]

Idk its literally the reason tails is there 🕵

[@myawanemil1462]

when I saw it as a kid, I was terrified. I thought the thing was going to explode on me so when I got near it I stopped and started going very slowly until the rocket was out of sight.

[@kingofthebis1068]

It’s only there in tail’s campaign

[@SILVERF0X13]

For those who say that Sonic Adventure is super glitchy I highly recommend checking out some videos on the differences between DX and the original dreamcast version. The emerald coast terrain glitch for instance is only present in DX.

[@schakiarligonde1736]

Both the Dreamcast version and GameCube dx are about as glitchy as each other stop lying. You have to go out of your way to trigger that glitch.

[@dragozero]

“What is your favorite part of Sonic Adventure, genuinely?” Raising Chao KingK, always the correct answer

[@joojr2779]

This was my favorite part as a child when playing this game. Maxing it out on the little dreamcast memory card.

[@zacariasvelazquez8400]

Raising chao, the hub world and npc's, and the sonic stages are my favorite parts, i still remember how happy i was to see my chao evolve for the first time or the excitement to discover a hidden emblem or path

[@DonYagamoth]

I unironically love Big The Cat ^^ I'm heavily biased and nostalgia probably plays a role, I'll freely admit that. But to me, Big The Cat is a character I adore in stories - it's that kind of character, that seems so out of place, that has no reason to be where they are. It's like a character in ... Anime, a character that is wayyy too weak to make any meaningful impact on defeating the big bad guys, or doesn't even try to. Despite all the odds, he is just on his own mission, and just scoots by in the background while the main cast is holding their planning and meeting when they try to figure out a plan of action to thwart whatever evil there is I'd guess, my other bias is, that I love exploring a story from different angles of different characters. In Final Fantasy 6, I'm in absolute love on how the story is told, how you meet some character, split up, converge again and each one has their own mission. Big The Cat as well as Gamma are there for me to see the entire thing from a different angle. To see more of the world, see how some bits and pieces intersect One thing is worth noting: I played this game with my friend when we had no memory card. Each day we would start again from 0. We would get further in the story, day by day. Beat more levels, get further, unlock characters, explore their way and their story. I think because of that, I do have a better idea on how the overarching plot plays out. How the stories intersect and work out against eachother, since I had to replay it over and over again. I ended up memorizing most of the jungle layout, which came in handy on more than one character. It's not really a way to play games anymore nowadays in a sense, and I will fully admit, that I probably wouldn't necessarily like the story as much as I do, and neither enjoy the environments/hubworld as much as I liked it at the time nowdays. Sonic Adventure was a world, we just enjoyed playing around in, and eventually beating the game was kind of secondary at the time :) Thank you for the video ^^

[@VenomKitetsu]

I was thoroughly thrilled for Sonic Adventure when it was on Dreamcast.

[@kieranstark7213]

I have the GameCube version of Sonic Adventure. I only want the DreamCast version, but alas, the DreamCast was a failure so I could not get one for myself.

[@cd.knuckles]

Kieran Stark the Dreamcast wasn’t a failure. And you can get Sonic Adventure

[@smashmaster521]

@@cd.knuckles How much does it cost these days?

[@smashmaster521]

@@kieranstark7213 Ah, a fellow Gamecube Sonic Adventurer. How do you do?

[@TheReZisTLust]

@James Smith they still sell dreamcasts btw

[@MetalheadSean666]

I actually love tails levels in this game its just so much fun to try fly through the stage as fast as possible and completey break the level

[@Eric4bz]

Sonic: Lets see you beat the level! Tails: how bad can you break the level?

[@TheGodofweak]

I also grew up "with" Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 -I didn't play them as frequently as others did, but 8 year old me certainly thought they were thrilling. I don't find them as exciting as I did when I was a kid but I think a Sonic Adventure 3 could be a good thing in the modern day. I appreciate that open level design that rewards the use of the environment. I'm really hankering for a Mania 2, Mania is the most fun I've had with a sonic game since those adventure games as a child.

[@Tetsu9701]

Sonic Team teams stated Sonic Heroes was Sonic Adventure 3. They didn't call it Sonic Adventure 3 because it was being released on multiple platforms and they didn't want to alienate such a large audience who most likely didn't play the first two & felt like they had to. I know that's how I am, I usually feel like I need to play most games in order, even platformers. They also stated that it opened them the game up to adding new characters since they didn't have to follow a storyline, they were able to inject different environments and characters in all over the place without worrying too much about continuity.

[@Tetsu9701]

@Sonic Hmm... I feel like I read it differently, but who am I to argue with Sonic himself.

[@cillbipher2613]

@Sonic "I didn't like the last attempt to fix 3D Sonic, imma fix 3D Sonic so the next guy can hate it and try to fix 3D Sonic"

[@paintitpurple0]

I don't know why people complain about this game nowadays. Sonic team didn't make it to be played and critiqued 20 years later. Sonic Adventure was received extremely well when it came out and the fact that lots of people still like to play it is testament to its impact.

[@Netherman14TheHellblazer]

This game does need to get the FF7R treatment, expanded hub worlds between missions/action stages. Re-translated script, redone gameplay. Graphics and cutscenes redone from the ground up, you catch my drift.

[@balaam_7087]

Does that mean it comes with a poorly thought out, tacked on afterthought of a “Hard” mode? I’m guessing the brilliant design choice would be what, to make it so you can’t run? In other words let’s just hope they don’t take EVERYTHING from the FF7R Demake. I mean Remake.

[@thelvadam5834]

Balaam _ yea Thea ff7 remake was not that good

[@Netherman14TheHellblazer]

@@balaam_7087 Where was I referring to Hard mode specifically? I was referring to every other aspect of the game. Next time, read my comment thoroughly before replying.

[@mr.marvin]

Well that's what Sonic 06 tried to do and look how that game turned out.

[@Netherman14TheHellblazer]

@@mr.marvin Sonic 06 was meant to be a continuity reboot, a clean slate. Not a remake.

[@crocodileman94]

This is my favorite Sonic game and I love the whole package, with emphasis on "whole".

[@robertkovarna8294]

Sonic Adventure. Yes! Time to open your hearts everyone. So we can all live and learn.

[@sem3ndem0n_73]

All most time I listening a King K video essay, I end up asking myself “Why am I watching this, I never even played this game. " Probably because of his high quality content and soothing voice.

[@MastaGambit]

You should play this game.

[@QuasiTheChemist]

I think that the Sonic characters with humans can totally work....with 2 things to keep in mind. 1: You need other cartoon animal characters, because even in Unleashed, I found it to be pretty weird that the crew is the only ones we see. 2: A cartoony/stylized art style. Just help to make things blend better.

[@BalooDumptruck]

hence why unleased is one of the better examples at having humans

[@jjrambles683]

Yeah make them look like fun Osama Tezuka humans

[@elmemearana]

I strongly disagreed in the cartoony art style's part. For me, the Adventure's "anime" art was always something flashy that yes, distorts, but inhale the true feeling of this franchise. Can be subjective to minor fans, although Sonic being your own shonen gender would be pretty cool, sincerely. Each game following a concrete story with different gameplay types, thus having some spin-offs of the other underrated characters that marry with games segments, like Tails or Knuckles; what a dream to live...

[@jjrambles683]

@@elmemearana bruh I have no idea what you're saying. You might be better off just typing in your native language and trusting the KZbin autotranslate to get your point across.

[@elmemearana]

@@jjrambles683 hun? I didn't see any mistake in my sentences, being very honest lol. Besides, I was just explaining my point of view about what way and direction Sonic should get; just thinking a bit high, ya know. Don't need take literally what I said.

[@TsarAlexei29]

I lived through a weird space of time where, in my child brain, early Sega Sonic was what Sonic games were supposed to be, but because I read the comics, Sonic Adventure was the "canon" story in my head....

[@SonicSanctuary]

tread carefully king, this is sacred ground you now walk upon....

[@smashmaster521]

And if you hurt the Chao that live there, you'll invoke the wrath of Chaos.

[@EtterWolf15]

Gotta say i recently found your channel a few months ago and yours are some of my favorite video game retrospective essays. Your scripts have great writing, personal insight, and you embrace the nuance held in each game, the good and the bad, and explore every angle of the game. Plus you have a great narrating voice that makes your essays great listening while cooking, cleaning, or slaving away for my corporate overlords.

[@WickedKnightAlbel]

Somecallmejohhny, the Game Grumps... is everybody putting out Raycon-sponsored videos today?

[@TheGershon]

Dog, every youtuber and their momma is sponsored by Raycon these days.

[@frankorefice4115]

I thought the same thing. I saw Somecallmejohnny and then GameGrumps sonic vids in the exact order.

[@thekiss2083]

and manslayer

[@tyro7413]

And of course, our true internet dad, Big Money Salvia.

[@Netherman14TheHellblazer]

Better Raycon than Raid: Shadow Legends.

[@NoNamE-jk9pn]

Can I just say that your style of video making has improved so much over the past 3 years? I re watched a couple of your Zelda videos recently and the difference between now and then is amazing. You're much more energetic with your voice along with your writing becoming more detailed and interesting, great video as usual King!

[@BraveSirRobin-hx2eq]

Fun fact, "Blue On The Run" is the name of a boss theme from Sonic & The Secret Rings.

[@KingKlonoa]

That is why I named it that.

[@BraveSirRobin-hx2eq]

@@KingKlonoa Cool

[@MastaGambit]

@@KingKlonoa Like a true sonic fan

[@newbiesama]

45:45 And that is where SA2B comes in. It has level design for characters specificly. And they all work

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

My favourite Sonic game.

[@generalshepherd2209]

Finally! This is a flawed, yet great game in many ways.

[@kieranstark7213]

My thoughts on SA1 (DreamCast version) exactly!

[@dreamcastdazia4753]

There is no such thing as a game that isn't flawed...

[@tokidokiaudiobooks]

@@dreamcastdazia4753 a good ol' game of catch with pops has no flaws

[@brya9681]

eh...I prefer Adventure 2 since this game is BUGGY AF.

[@generalshepherd2209]

@@brya9681 With the new hardware there were bound to be bugs and glitches. SA2 has the benefit of the doubt there, and I consider it a more refined version of the raw potential in SA1

[@deebogaillard]

“Man, stay off the light speed!” “My bad!”

[@CaptainFracture]

I appreciate a very analytical point of view coming from someone who actually loved the games as much as I did. There had to reasons why I loved and played these games over and over to death other than nostalgia. The freedom that old 3D sonic had and felt was probably the biggest factor of it but I respect and love all the points you get into nonetheless

[@freponad9053]

The most mindblowing part of this for me is that the levels follow the same zone mechanics as the first three games - how each level is typically divided into multiple "acts". They all just felt like individual levels to me, but thinking back on it, they all really did have different parts that you go through a loading zone for.

[@SaberToothPortilla]

When you put Gamma's story in those terms... it honestly sounds like a completely different game. A Sonic themed take on Postal perhaps.

[@ssj2matt]

"It controls more smoothly than Mario 64" - meanwhile Sonic glitches into like 4 corners

[@NachoCheeseDorito-Kun]

Exactly -I'mjustkiddingpleasedon'tkillme-

[@noriringtail7428]

lmao I was thinking the exact same thing as I watched, seeing this blue pinball wobble around violently everywhere

[@TheTraveller777]

LOL. What a joke, I like both Adventure games but you can't say the control isn't a bit janky and doesn't feel great when going fast or in tighter corners.

[@NachoCheeseDorito-Kun]

@@TheTraveller777 I feel that. I always thought he played really well when I was kid and even a teenager, but after a few years of just... not playing, I find Sonic specifically plays with a major misunderstanding of physics. It's better in 2 than in Adventure or DX, and all the other characters play fairly well, but they all take a lot of getting used to.

[@GODDAMNLETMEJOIN]

Sonic behaves best running down corridors and Mario plays best running through open spaces, it's when you swap their contexts that things get jank (sonic fidgeting to get to specific spots and Mario's camera having a seizure when you round a corner)

[@bell1615]

One redeeming factor for Big the Cat is his voice actor being Jon St. John. The same guy who does Duke Nukem.

[@MsDarkz123]

Fun fact: The japanese voice is modern DK and Ganondorf (Ocarina/Wind Waker)

[@chiharris6028]

As much as I really like this video, I will say that one part I found to be a little weak was the one about Humans in Sonic games. Now yes, it does make a legitimate point, especially with how the styles clash so many times, even when they nearly get the style right with Unleashed. The main problem I find with this argument is mostly that it seems to suggest that the Humans INHERENTLY are the problem and not the art style and the way they are portrayed. I also find that due to a lack of information about the Japanese canon many treat the humans like they just appeared out of nowhere due to them being nowhere to be seen in the original American canon (ie: SATAM, Archie, AOSTH). In the original Japanese canon, they were always there, even during the Classic era, it is often stated by Yuji Naka that the islands the Classics take place on are isolated, they do not represent that society as a whole. In one interview, Yuji Naka even states that once Sonic left the islands before Adventure on the mainland he met the humans. It isn't something that just came out of nowhere, it's just that Sonic Adventure, in general, made the Japanese canon the International canon. And in the Japanese canon, they were always there. Would I like them to continue with the Animal World stuff? Yes. But I also feel like SEGA normally doesn't try as hard when they have to work with other animals that aren't Sonic and friends.

[@BalooDumptruck]

the humans kinda just feel out of place tbh

[@megapokesonicx]

It also just doesn’t make sense for Eggman to be the only human in the Sonic universe, I don’t understand the human complaint.

[@rynobehnke8289]

Funnily enough were Archie fans the least stumped as Archie with its Overlanders already introduced a Big human faction in the Comics before Adventure 1 released.

[@GameApologist]

Still watching, but beautifully done so far AND you used an 8 bit rendition of the BEST Naruto theme. Fantastic.

[@BebopTheStampede]

I’m here rummaging comments section like a madman looking for someone to mention this. Twas beautiful!

[@pro-toman]

@@BebopTheStampede Lmao it came out of nowhere too! Feels good to be a fan of both, I popped off

[@BebopTheStampede]

@@pro-toman like a Hard Knuckle to the face eh, DLN-000?

[@pro-toman]

@@BebopTheStampede Well if you already know that much, it’s exactly as you say! A shadow blade to the face even lmao, I could catch Roboenza with how vulnerable I felt in that moment…

[@BebopTheStampede]

@@pro-toman Truly! Don’t strain your brain though, you might overheat or explode!!

[@Angel_devil6969]

18:04 HIS GUITAR LOOK AT THE SONIC SHOE OMFG

[@Coopidge]

Odin's Sphere has five (significantly longer) stories that intersect with characters who are all related in some capacity. Instead of redoing an event when they meet, the game simply lets you know "Hey, remember that thing in Gwendolyn's story? Well it just happened." The game even has a timeline with all five character's cutscenes on a chronological sheet, so you can know where you are in any character's story relative to a character you've already completed. Amazing game, amazing plot, definitely handles the Sonic Adventure conundrum much better.

[@derekw8039]

Genuinely, running to Tails' workshop, then all around the hub world, then going and visiting my Chao, is not only my favorite part of the game; it's what drew me into the Sonic series. Where other people play games for their challenges, I get my enjoyment from exploring a game's world and playing around in it. I find the greatest fun replaying this game when I talk to the NPC's to see their stories progress, and see how the world connects geographically. When Sonic Heroes dropped the Chao Garden, I waited anxious;y for the day the things that drew me into this world would return.

[@saricubra2867]

I always disliked Sonic Heroes, brings Shadow out of nowhere that kills SA2's ending and also ruined the direction of the series. Sonic Heroes feels more like a Spinoff than a proper Sonic game, ah, the Dark Ages.

[@furdman02]

This video perfectly coincides with my feelings toward this game. I really would love to hear your thoughts on Sonic Adventure 2! I feel like that game fixed a lot of the issues you described regarding this game. I hope that you can go over that game next.

[@mybrainfellasleep]

i like big the cat actually, i mean not his gameplay, but i like his character and his friendships in later games. Hes a jolly guy and he makes me happy

[@rismu1972]

Srb2 does a damn decent job of adapting Talis' and Knuckles' 2d gameplay into the 3rd dimension.

[@calebdonaldson8770]

I have a lot of respect for Adventure for being the first to create a 3D Sonic engine that actually works, and to this day, it certainly offers the most sandbox-style gameplay out of any Sonic game. However, I don't think it can be denied that there are a number of flaws and "kinks" in the Adventure games that turn people off, in the same way that it does for Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time. I do think that Adventure 1 & 2 are overhated by certain fans, but I also believe that later Sonic titles would round themselves out into overall better games.

[@saricubra2867]

"later Sonic titles would round themselves" Lmao, the opposite happened with the exception of Generations (i'm talking about 3D Sonic, not in general). Sonic Adventure is one of it's kind, same as Adventure 2. It took decades until a game like It Takes Two came and blows my mind like the first two Adventure games.

[@calebdonaldson8770]

@@saricubra2867 If that kind of gameplay is your bag, then that's great news and you can enjoy it all you want. I personally prefer the hybrid 2D-3D gameplay of Colors & Generations. From what I've experienced, I think that format turns out better than full-on 3D Sonic, especially considering how many times Sega has failed to replicate the success of the Adventure games. I guess that answers your question! If you're looking for sandbox-style 3D Sonic, the Adventure games have stood the test of time far better than anything else.

[@SuperSonic68]

"A 2D Tails does not a 3D Tails make." I'll agree with ya there, pal. You're right on the money. HOWEVER, I would like to assert that, in my opinion, a 2D Sonic CAN a 3D Sonic make if they dared to ever try to properly translate Sonic's classic physics into 3D and have level design that took advantage of it.

[@jacobmonks3722]

Some test levels that you can find in SA1 through hacking show evidence that they really tried to implement classic physics into 3D, with slopes and loops and half-pipes, but they either didn't have the technical prowess or it simply wasn't going to be very functional, or fun. Gotta keep in mind this was when camera control and 3D physics were still in their infancy. Though we have the technology to do it now quite effectively, and Sonic Utopia, while not perfect, proves that. I would very much look forward to an official 3D Sonic game that utilized those kinds of mechanics.

[@graemebloodworth8991]

ok but the "hey big guy" song during the end credits of Big's story SLAPS.

[@kieranstark7213]

It’s the only thing about Big the Cat’s story in Sonic Adventure 1 (the biggest problem I have with the Sonic Adventure duology in general that keeps it away from being one of the best 3D Sonic games, as good as the original DreamCast version of the series is) I actually (REALLY) liked!

[@onijester56]

I unironically enjoy Big's campaign, and its music. And having a character that's not focused on speed or momentum allows you to explore at a pace that lets you find secrets you might have missed while going at sonic speed.

[@kieranstark7213]

Anthony Hauser I got that experience more with Knuckles, Tails, the E-Series and yes... even Amy Rose in Sonic Adventure. 😊

[@onijester56]

@@kieranstark7213 Tails is oriented on race, reach the end before Sonic. Likewise, Amy's is centered on a chase, escaping/fleeing Zero. On repeat playthroughs, when one is experienced enough to take their time, they can explore to their heart's content. E-Series is likewise, with his crux being the countdown timer. Even replenishing it, a player won't necessarily know how lenient it is until after they've played his adventure. You might chance a choice, but if you're a preteen kid and this is your first time playing a 3D Sonic game, you aren't going to take those risks as often or explore more thoroughly until your second or third or fifth playthrough. Knuckles is the main focus of exploration, hunting down randomly-placed emerald shards throughout the level. HOWEVER, that covers only 5 of the 11 stages...and they do not overlap with the 4 that Big goes through. Also note that if I HAD TO rank each play-style, Big is probably gonna go to the bottom. But that doesn't mean it's bad or that I hate it. It's fun, it's short, it's a nice little break from everything.

[@jacesgamingspace1624]

I was fasinated by the hub world as a kid. It was fun exploring in it. Also, playing as Sonic's friends was the charm of this game for me as it added variety.

[@alfiehicks1]

Sonic living in a world with humans was the case, right from even before the beginning if you count his (admittedly scrapped) girlfriend Madonna. Just because humans (besides Eggman) were never seen in the classic trilogy, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. We also don't see any anthropomorphic animals besides Sonic and company, so what makes it any more likely that animals are the only occupants of their world? Who lives in the cities seen in Star Light, Spring Yard, Casino Night, and Chemical Plant? I find it not too hard to believe that the original intent was to have a mixture of Sonic-esque animals and humans populating the planet. Although they're not seen in game - chalk that one up to technical and artistic limitations - the fact that the humans that meet the protagonists in this game are not surprised by their appearance despite not knowing them personally, proves that there are more sapient animals than just Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Big. They're not even that uncanny or out of place because of the anime inspired artstyle (which is better than 06, but not quite as good as Unleashed) that they're realised in. Personally, it's better than the exclusively anthropomorphic nobodies featured in Forces, because the humans at least feel like actual inhabitants of a world and not just generic background characters.

[@chillykomasan7971]

YES

[@BalooDumptruck]

naw anthros are better

[@WaterKirby1994]

Unleashed had the worst humans in the Sonic Series, they were ugly & inconsistent with everything that came before except Eggman who is supposed to be different!

[@alextheex]

Now all we need from KingK is a Sonic Adventure race

[@Yuli_Ban]

It's something that interests me looking at it nowadays: that there's this strain of revisionist history that claims that Sonic Adventures 1 and 2 were only hated recently and that everyone loved them back in the day, and those ultra-high review scores for the game in 1998-2001 are proof of it. But that's the most surface level proof possible. Look at actual forum and Usenet discussions from that time, and the Adventure games were probably the single-most divisive games in the franchise, before or since. Even I, way back in the day, was completely shocked by this because I used to think it was a fantastic game. Even more baffling is that this revisionist history, itself, claims there to be revisionist history at play. But I think I know what happened. All the kids who grew up with the game (especially SADX and SA2:B) were like you: they were just little kids and had no knowledge of forums, social media, or any of that. They just had fun with themselves, their friends, and the games. They probably felt the same for Heroes and the Advance trilogy, and perhaps felt a tinge of "WTF?" for Shadow the Hedgehog. By this time, they may have discovered shows like X-Play which would regularly review games, and they'd get to see that they thought that at least Heroes was decent, but trashed Shadow and especially Sonic 06 (one of their most well-known reviews). If the kids who got these games didn't like them, they didn't talk about them anymore or just got in playground arguments about them compared to other games (almost always the more "mature" games of that era). But those that did love them inevitably grew up, and as the internet became more widespread and capable, they started venturing online. This would be around the time 06 and Unleashed came out, so you can only imagine these kids' utter shock to discover that the games they thought were universally loved and beloved were suddenly being torn to shreds and only barely defended. The same sites that gave the Dreamcast versions such high scores were now regularly featuring articles that said "All of Sonic's problems started with the jump to 3D." Naturally, we would overlook the fact that the people who reviewed these games in 1998 or 2001 had long since left those publications or were judging them based on gaming standards of the time and that these types were those who had likely disliked those games on release, something that was much more widespread than we were led to believe. The fans who would have explained that this was always a widespread viewpoint had long since left the franchise, possible right after Sega dropped out of the console market, so we had to figure things out on our own how this had happened and when Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 became "divisive." The wave of SA1 and SA2 retrospectives I've seen on KZbin in the past decade have usually been to defend the game, and that's fine. Yet it's also with these retrospectives that I first got to see the revisionist history start to take root, where there is now just this common accepted truth that "everyone only hates these games _now_ and loved them back then." I genuinely think this is a side effect of the sheer hate obsession many people have for Sonic too. When it seems like literally everyone hates a part of the franchise, fans of that part become that much more desperate to defend the times that they knew the critics weren't so vitriolic and biased against the franchise (even though I feel they have good reasons to be so, based on the corporate culture of Sega of Japan). I myself eventually realized that SA1 is too deeply flawed for me to seriously keep saying it's "great"; it certainly has great ideas, and I've also even more recently come to appreciate those ideas and honest attempts, but I had to take off the rose-tinted glasses at some point and look at what was there. I can see nowadays what many others saw in 1999 on the other side, a game that is too ambitious for its own good. Of course, that's always made up for with some great mods that add in things that always should've been in the game, but as for the base game itself, eh... I think they did it better later on.

[@saricubra2867]

Sonic 3&K also is flawed with some weird design choices for levels,bad visibility for the camera and inconsistent framerate but many people give Sonic 3&K a pass. I think this is straight revisionism and collective hypocrisy after the damage that Sonic 06 did to the Sonic brand that created a meme culture.

[@suicidalfetusx]

I mean you're totally right and you can see the course corrections Sega took in SA2. And its 100% nostalgia speaking for me, but as a kid getting a Dreamcast and SA1 for Christmas after launch I loved it even though I recognized the other campaigns were kinda half assed. And much like KingK I keep going back to this game every year or so at least the Sonic part. The Sonic levels and the soundtrack will always be great as far as I'm concerned

[@megapokesonicx]

I've seen people shit on Sonic 3 in forums back in the day, forums are not a good use for an argument. SA1 is still good, even without mods.

[@Obscure_man31]

@@megapokesonicx but its a good way of showing how people actually thought about theese games lets put like this critics are the government and the forums are the streets

[@smashmaster521]

Having begun playing through Sonic Adventure again, I can say that the game has definitely aged, but it's still a blast to play.

[@astralura]

oh man, this game was my childhood, along with Starfox Adventure (i legit loved that game). Funnily enough, I actually loved the hub worlds and the exploration aspect. I would spend HOURS just flying around as tails or knuckles looking for secrets. I wasnt very good at the levels, so it was a huge part of what I enjoyed about the game. Knuckles was my favourite story to play because of this. I loved the treasure hunt and I loved seeing parts of the levels you wouldnt normally see. I hated Amy's story cuz Zero scared the shit out of me cuz I hate antagonists you cant defeat and that you just have to run and hide from. The music was iconic and as soon as I hear that opening theme it's like being transported back to my childhood.

[@SelectClay]

Oh, thank you, King. I loved your classic Sonic retrospectives and now we're getting into what you grew up with. And while I love that you mentioned that this is another long analysis on an Adventure era Sonic game, I personally cannot get enough of them whether they are from today or from many years ago. I hope you have some well deserved fun when you tackle SA2.

[@megapokesonicx]

21:50 most of the glitches and jank are from the ports of the game and there is a powerup called the crytstal ring that shortens you time for the light speed dash. 28:30 I can understand why they did it, Mario 64 and OOT did similar stuff 37:44 Knuckles has lived alone on an island for the rest of his life so he has unrefined social skills The human argument is stupid, You think Eggman should be the only human in the Sonic universe? Actually SA1 matches Tails better because it matches his original concept which was to keep up with Sonic. 48:47 When you hit ZERO 5 times, he becomes invincible which you even showed in your own footage. 50:30 I died on Hot Shelter 6 times I disagree with this, I actually tend to replay a lot of the other characters, mostly Knuckles, Tails, and Gamma and sometimes Amy.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Agreed & you're talking to someone who collected all 130 Emblems from Adventure DX on GameCube & still enjoys most of the playstyles. If I could figure out how to rehookup my GameCube, I would try to speedrun 130 Emblems on a new file in Adventure DX. Crystal Ring halves the time required to charge up the Light Dash & funnily enough you can get it before you get the Shoes from the sewer if you are skilled.

[@lpfan4491]

Zero is still too weak in gameplay. I actually played Amys story without attacking him and only hit him once because he came out of a wall suddenly and I did a hammerjump. And I did it without getting captured once.

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@lpfan4491 You want a challenge try hitting Zero a few times then try outrunning him. Twinkle Park becomes a lot harder if he's been hit 5 times by the start of the Mirror Room. If you try that for all 3 of Amy's Stages & still think Zero is too weak in gameplay you are really skilled.

[@Quietpower99]

I'm sorry. I needed to rewind 2 or 3 times once the 8 bit rendition of Kana-Boon's Silhouette started playing. I really couldn't pay attention when that song fucking slaps so hard.

[@edgelord8337]

Sonic adventure 1 is what I call an experimental mess. The game didn't know what it wanted it to be and when it sucks it really sucks but when it's fun it's really fun. Sonic adventure 2 built on the blocks this game had and even though this game is flawed and kinda a mess I still love it. It was sonic in 3D FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. It had almost all the original characters and even metal sonic cameoed in the game. Sonic adventure might just be the most deceive game in the entire series. It also got big the cat... Yeah I love this game.

[@Skylancer727]

Sonic Adventure 2 fixed many of the issues with 1, but I honestly feel it is the lesser game in some regards as the high points are much lower and the game feels more restrictive. Remember how you could climb the building on speed highway? What happen to that? Adventure 2 made the game more streamlined and determined but also took away a lot of the charm Sonic got by being 3D by being too restrictive of what is done with it. Basically every Sonic level became either a tube or hallway, Knuckles got his hunting stages more dragged out, they cut Tails, Amy, and Big (that's an improvement in my eyes though Tails missions were fun in the first), and Gamma missions were made slower and more clunky making it clash more with the rest of the game. This is why even though 2 is definitely a better game, but I honestly don't like it as much. They fixed the problems not by looking at them and seeing how to improve them but just getting around them and ignoring them. I don't think that was the right solution. Knuckles stages should have been longer by having more emeralds not hiding them, Sonic's stages were more free in the first game, and Gamma just needed longer bigger stages. That's really all they had to do.

[@TheMarioman121]

Honestly, I'd *love* a new adventure game. Not for the nostalgia-fueled reasons lots of other sonic fans bring up, but because adventure 1 and 2 were the epitome of experimental, and at times lately, it seems like Sega's been afraid of trying new things. Sure, they could be buggy and messy as hell, but it's a lot more interesting than having a bland, samey experience like Forces was.

[@saricubra2867]

@@TheMarioman121 I never experienced bugs in SA1 or SA2 unless people judge the games by something like Game Grumps that played the horrible DX on PC (that also had terrible reviews at the time).

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

@Skylancer727 Sonic Adventure 2 is a much better flowing, much more focused, much more polished and much better designed game in practically every way. Sonic is not more "restrictive", it's more linear and embraces the advantages of a linear game. That being it allows for level design with far less dead weight; much more substance essentially. It also makes it less like trial and error and more like pure skill in getting better at the game with every subsequent playthrough. Also, people seriously need to shut up about linear design somehow being "restrictive" and worse than more open design. Now I still like open design, keep in mind, but it's so easy to fuck up when not done well. You could have one pathway that's fun and addictive, and another that's either boring or frustrating. In other words, it's level design that lacks direction. Hey guys, Crash Bandicoot is bad because it's "restrictive".

[@Yuli_Ban]

@@saricubra2867 Having played Sonic Adventure for the Dreamcast and Sonic Adventure DX on the Gamecube and PC, I can't understand this viewpoint that the DX port is glitchier. Almost every glitch I've had in SA1 was in the Dreamcast version; it's glitched up quite well. The original Japanese version is almost 06 tier in that regard, too; the International Version (the one we in the USA got) was certainly patched up, but I still fell through more than a few floors, saw texture mishaps, animation errors, and suffered unfair deaths. In SADX, there was that wall in Emerald Coast I guess? But you'd have to be actively going out of your way to find that particular glitch (e.g. Arin "Butterbrains" Hanson)

[@sonic66646]

I disagree about the hub world. I played it more than 10 years ago as a little kid and I still remember the vibe the hub worlds gave me. It made the game charming and left an impact on me

[@PurpleFreezerPage]

I enjoyed tails a lot as a kid. I think I do as an adult too. There was still enough difficulty to keep me engaged, though I haven’t played those stages “hundreds of times”.

[@Zeno11Salazar]

What could work for Tails flying levels is having to deal with airborn obstacles that would bat him out of the sky, having to duck and weave around enemies, maybe use that big brain of his to use it to solve puzzles or enemies that are puzzles.

[@mr.marvin]

SA1 probably has the best 3d level design in the series. Still to this day it's the best.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

To an extent, I agree.

[@TheBlueWizzrobe]

It depends on what you want from 3D Sonic. I think that depending on what exactly you want from 3D Sonic, you could make a solid argument for SA1, SA2, Unleashed, or Generations all having the best 3D level design in the series. And heck, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who think that a totally different game from any of the ones that I've listed is the best, and that's totally fine too. The series is heavily varied in its approaches to 3D level design, and I think that it's just a lost cause to try and label any one of them as the "best." Just respect other people's opinions and have a great day :)

[@Yuli_Ban]

I disagree. Sonic 06 had fantastic level design that took the Red Mountain & Emerald Coast-style open-ended design philosophies and really built off of them. Level design was, besides the music, the only other really solid part of that game. If the game wasn't liquid corn-filled dookie, it would've been the best game to replay and explore by far.

[@papersonic9941]

@@Yuli_Ban meh, that game's level design was bogged down by a lot of "destroy all enemies" sections, and a lot of really badly made levels like Aquatic Base. It has its bright spots, but I hesitate to call it "good" And that's only considering Sonic's campaign. Shadow and Silver's levels are atrocious.

[@huntercrunch94]

Mr. Marvin I agree. The level design is one of the many reasons I think adventure 1 is better than 2 in just about every way. The levels were designed to allow both speed running and slower exploration, while adventure 2 was way too linear with almost no branching paths, and the multi-act structure was completely absent. I also agree that the level design in 06 is pretty good, and much closer to adventure 1’s style, and that the broken engine is the thing holding them back.

[@voidlayern9368]

16:58 This was the best ad and and transition I have ever seen in a youtube video. Hats off to you, sir!

[@demaunix2723]

11:34 "Sonic Adventure is loose in the... BEST way...!" 😏

[@TribalScience]

Dude, I used to stare out the window of the car while my parents drove, and imagine myself running through the streets and fields alongside the car just like Sonic. He was also my first Halloween costume. Embrace the cringe!

[@Meepmeep189]

Honestly, the fact that you used the Cutscene Revamp Mod for SA2 and the Dreamcast Conversion Mod for SA1 for this video when you didn't have to was a nice surprise! The lighting for SA2's cutscenes and the overall aesthetic of the Dreamcast models and levels for SA1 over DX's less impressive artstyle changes really helps people see why on a presentation level these games were really good for the time. In case anyone's interested in them, here's links to them: SA2 Cutscene Revamp Mod by SPEEPSHighway & End User: gamebanana.com/gamefiles/9780 SA1 Dreamcast Conversion Mod Suite by PkR: www.moddb.com/mods/sadx-dreamcast-conversion

[@Schwarzorn]

Agreed. More people need to play it that way. So many people play the unmodded version and bitch about things that got broken by the bad port job. It's not really fair to Sonic Adventure.

[@mdstevens0612]

I always felt that Unleashed dealt with humans better than Adventure. It only looks like it doesn't mesh in Adventure and '06 because Sonic Team made the maddening choice to make humans have more realistic proportions, like in the Sonic X cartoon, rather than make them cartoony, like in Unleashed. If Bojack Horseman can put humans and anthropomorphic animals into a world together, Sonic can do it too. It just needs a little bit of care.

[@Msamuleman]

As something of an offhand response to why someone might enjoy Speed Highway as Tails: Though Tails absolutely should not conventionally work in a 3D space, as you've outlined. I think innately the nature of Tails's gameplay can be argued to work because the gameplay emphasis is not on whether he can overcome the terrain. Rather, the carte blanche with which you can pick your own path to speed through it as quickly as possible, as encouraged by the ranking emphasis on time in SA1. This is something that Speed Highway offers in spades and in ways that Sonic and other characters can't replicate and (to go on a bit of a tangent) is something which could be considered the saving grace of Amy and the others as well, provided you're into replaying stages repeatedly and grinding for optimized runs. Especially since stages like Amy's Hot Shelter (where you can chain consecutive hammer jumps for neat vertical platforming sections) arguably only really start to shine when you're deliberately going for that type of optimization.

[@TheDr502]

Aside from Knuckles' treasure-hunting stages being fun (just no) and humans being out of place in Sonic (see: Dr. Robotnik/Eggman, who's human regardless of his cartoony proportions), I pretty much agree with what this guy says about SA1. I would've been perfectly fine with Sonic being the only character who's required to complete the game and then Tails, Amy, Knuckles et al just being optional characters for those who feel like playing as them. Sonic's stages are quite fun, but then I'd remember several sobering facts: -I need to do Big's fishing stages to complete the game -I need to play as Amy's slow, meandering ass to complete the game -I need to hunt for Chaos Emeralds with Knuckles Suddenly, a veil of dread would hang over my head. Suddenly, I wasn't so sure if I could finish the game. Eventually, I did finish this game, and now? Sonic's stages are the only stages that I bother playing. SA2 ages a hell of a lot better than SA1 does. Not sure why some folks insist that SA1 is superior.

[@fondajames]

Lol talking about how this isnt going to be the first time I've heard about the game from a review point and even just 4 minutes in and I can honestly say I've seen more of the game than ever have before if I'd ever seen or heard of it at all

[@fondajames]

@paula what's to huh about? At about 4 minutes in hes talking about how this is nothing new to talk about for this game but I had barely heard of it before this video

[@jaykebird2go]

Well then, that's great for you then! You got a bunch of other retrospectives and reviews you can go out and watch if you want. The point King K was making is that there's already a loooot of those other retrospectives and reviews out there, as many of the popular KZbinrs already talked about this game years ago. But hey, for everyone there's always that "first introduction" to something, so in this case, I guess this is your first introduction then!

[@williamg3165]

Hey! I was an old school Sonic fan from Day 1 of Game 1! I bought the original when it came out and followed the series from then on. I AM THE OLD GUARD! However, ya know what? I LOVED SONIC ADVENTURE! I wasn’t one of those purists attached to the “old style” of gameplay. Just like with Mario, I really embraced the transition to full 3D in the Sonic series! IMO 3D gave a new layer of depth to the games, not just literally, but figuratively too! Don’t assume that all old school fans hate these games! I believe most old school Sonic fans love Sonic Adventure. There is a VERY vocal segment of the fan base that maligns these titles, but I believe a clear majority enjoy them! Most of DO NOT hate the Adventure titles. It’s what came after that we hate. Sonic 06, anyone?

[@originalgamer4002]

After playing sonic forces in 2017. I can appreciate more of sonics old games like SA1 and SA2.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Sonic Adventure 1 I still come back to, even if I don't enjoy it as a full package. Sonic Adventure 2 is my favourite Sonic game.

[@ToxiChaos]

"Sonic used to be my role model." Don't kid yourself, he still is.

[@dailydelphox]

I'd love to see a remake of this game that makes major improvements over the original. Fix the surplus of bugs, make some slight re-writes in the story so entering levels makes more sense, redesign levels for each individual character so it doesn't feel like the player's replaying the same levels and boss fights, and so that levels play to each character's strengths, make Big's story an optional side story not needed for the Super Sonic's, alter the hub world's pacing so it's more engaging. I think Sonic Adventure's a trove of good and bad ideas. It's a step in a good direction, but it's a shame outside of Adventure 2, the style of gameplay introduced in this game was completely ditched in favor of the more linear (albeit occasionally really good) platforming from the boost games.

[@lpfan4491]

When it comes to the bugs, mods on the PC version fixed those.

[@saricubra2867]

@@lpfan4491 *Or buying and playing the Dreamcast original*

[@NezumiVA]

Only nitpick I have of the video is that the Echidna tribe didn't _seal_ Chaos to make him angry. *Tikal* sealed Chaos to stop him from killing everyone, but he only became aggressive and started killing them because they attacked him first. Their reason for attacking the shrine (and trampling Tikal/the Chao) wasn't to seal Chaos, just to seize control of the Master Emerald for a tactical advantage in their ongoing war with other tribes. It's a similarly simple narrative, of course, but it's less about fearing what you don't understand and more about not being a power hungry monster who constantly repeats the cycle of violence for the sake of getting one over on others (like the Echidnas did, with them effectively being colonizers, and Chaos' anger leading him to similarly seek power to destroy the inhabitants of the Earth in retaliation).

[@inendlesspain4724]

34:32 I've heard that Gamma's gameplay was implemented because of demand from some fans who wanted shooting mechanics in Sonic games (guess they liked Sonic and Contra and didn't stop for a second to think and realize that just because you can like hot dogs and ice cream doesn't mean the two would make for a good combination), but Sonic Team, naturally, felt that neither Sonic nor any of the other animal characters were a good fit for wielding guns, so they created a new character that'd fit this purpose better, like a robot, and thus Gamma and his gameplay style were made. I think the mindset behind the creation of this character is really interesting; back then Sonic Team had a vision of their own for the series (even if this vision included elements that weren't of the liking of everyone, like having Sonic and co. live alongside humans) and weren't willing to completely betray this vision to satisfy fan demands, yet they still wanted to make fans happy no matter how absurd their demands were, and so they'd be more critical about how they'd go about it so these ideas would still fit into their vision in some way. I think it's very remarkable because in the years that'd follow, Sonic Team would demonstrate that somewhere along the way they lost this creative integrity, with games that'd try to appease fans in a far less critical way, with elements that'd plague the following games for more than a decade, like excessive call-backs to nostalgia, more emphasis on Sonic gameplay and less on everybody else (if they are even made playable at all), as well as avoiding touching on absolutely ANYTHING related to their previous failures (I think Sonic 06 is the main factor in why the Sonic Team just refuses to go back to anything even remotely resembling the Adventure formula), and then you have the very incarnation of this flawed design philosophy with Sonic Forces. Also, maybe Iizuka didn't express it in the most understandable way in that interview, but I think that when he said that fishing would be a good fit for Big since he was a cat, I think he was thinking about how relaxed and "my pace" cats usually are, at least domestic cats, and how fishing is often described as a leisure activity, so they put two and two together and decided that Big would be given fishing mechanics for his gameplay. You know, I actually like Big the Cat as a character, it's a shame that he'd have to be given such annoying gameplay for his first appearance and now everybody hates him.

[@justkrazeGD]

Sonic was the best back in the days,I never hated anything about this game and it was the funnest game Ive ever played,It will always have a place in my heart.

[@realestAG]

A large part of me really want to see a remake but another part of me has the biggest feeling that current Sonic team will fuck it up somehow

[@dylteejpodcasts-7412]

As a SA1 speedrunner, and overall fan... I thought this video best summed up how I felt about this game. I grew up with this game too, and still cant get over how fun Sonic's gameplay and control is. I play this game all the time, and will continue to do so. The only thing ill say that I think im so nostalgia blinded, that I still actually have a very fun/good time with the side characters stories, despite objectively knowing their weaknesses. Great Video!

[@JhuntdaProdigy]

“Oh no” - Knuckles the Echidna 1998

[@bonk3746]

I know this is unrelated to this specific video but I want to say how much I’ve enjoyed your content, especially your Zelda retrospectives which I have binged each multiple times over and you’ve definitely helped me get into that series far more

[@emmiasilk9059]

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Amy's story. I like playing as Sonic, but in my opinion, playing as Amy is the most fun part of the game. It's a shame there is so little of it.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

If I'm perfectly honest, while nowhere near her full potential, Amy is my favourite playable character conceptually. If Amy's slower playstyle was to come back, I would love to see her moves and acrobatics expanded upon. Imagine if instead of high speed platforming and mastery of the momentum to beat the stages quickly, you had to master the potentially versatile acrobatics to achieve great distances and access subtle shortcuts to beat them quickly. It will literally be a combination of Sonic and Tomb Raider.

[@SmugDampe]

Sonic Adventure music has always had an effect on me, it makes me sad, but in a good way, definitely based on nostalgia but it makes me remember all the good times I've had growing up and how that part is over, and now I have nothing to do but to look forward in my life and know that if I was able to make it this far that I can do just about anything as long as I don't give up.

[@Harrinsain]

I'd love Knuckles to get his own spin-off that's just a treasure Hunting Collectathon. I don't really know what the plot would be though. Definitely wouldn't want it to be about the Master Emerald again, that already felt tacked on by the time SA2 came around. idk, I just think it'd be neat

[@rainpooper7088]

It could totally be about him being a treasure hunter and trying to find out more about his echidna heritage. They‘ve just ignored all that interesting stuff for so long.

[@lpfan4491]

Knuckles is about the master emerald. It is not that the master emerald is tacked on in SA2, it is that it is hard to justify knuckles being there.

[@LaskyLabs]

This game genuinely means so much to me. As a kid Tails resonated with me, always being overshadowed by an older brother. Hell, my teachers still sometimes call me by his name. As a teenager the music completely grips me, genuinely some of the best music I've ever listened to. It means so much to me that I've made my catch phrase "Be cool, be wild, and be groovy!" Genuinely, that song *SLAPS!* The game had a lot of fuck ups, but man, all those stumbles can be ignored with a touch of fun and nostalgia. If you're looking for fun, look no further!