My Experience with Solar - the Solar Saga, Part 2!

[@04williamsl]

I looked into solar panels a couple years ago. I'm a female living on my own, am mindful as it is with the electricity/heating I use, no kids to have a bigger reason of using more etc. I rang a company up that I'd found on Google after reading the reviews. We went through some basic questions over the phone, including how many live at the property, average gas/leccy bills etc. They advised against me getting them as I'd never save the amount of money I'd be paying for them to be installed over 20-25 years of usage. I've recommended them to my friend who has kids and spend over £400 a month on their bills, they were installed with 0 issues. I recommended them because they were honest and didn't try to sell me something I wouldn't have much use for at this time just so they could get the cash. Honesty goes a long way not just in the quick sale but in future sales, too.

[@davefroman4700]

I would give it a couple of years and ask for a new quote. The costs are dropping on solar every year, as are batteries getting cheaper as well. And even if your needs are meager a small system will pay for itself if you off set your evening usage. You will likely only need 5-10kw of storage and 3kw of solar to get out of the most expensive part of the energy bills.

[@michaelblosser5277]

And the name of the company?

[@ianbrown_]

Not sure what “being female” has to do with anything really 🤷‍♂️

[@04williamsl]

@@ianbrown_ Not sure why this was pointed out really. Did I try to make a sexist claim (hint: I didn't) or was I just describing myself?

[@jerrygeorgopolis8015]

BBB, I found it strange some thought your were that Gullible. One or two important points not mentioned, besides roof direction to the sun. For max solar collection on a roof, panels need to be properly angled for Maximum Solar collection. Also, extra weight to the house roof should be considered. Overall, your experience has been Invaluable ! Thank you for this valuable information. Best from U.S.A.

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

Much appreciated!

[@jerrygeorgopolis8015]

@Pharisee Spotter You actually bring up a good point. (Info from Solar) The weakest link for the wind resistance of a solar panel system is almost never the panels themselves - in most instances where wind causes damage to a solar array, failures occur due to weaknesses in the racking system or in the roof the panels are affixed to. The weight of the solar panels you have installed can depend on the solar panel dimensions. This varies by company but on average, solar panels tend to weigh somewhere in the 40-pound range. Before you book your installation, you’ll want to find out the specifications of the panels that will be installed so that a professional can evaluate the effect that a solar panel load might have on your roof. Here in New England, snow loads of up to 3 feet of heavy wet snow, are engineered in the roof design.

[@markk6565]

great stuff , and fair play to giving the lads a plug.when you find great tradepersons word of mouth goes a long way ..

[@bertiesworld]

During the winter I tend to charge the batteries up fully overnight (cheap rate) from the grid. I find the solar production to be fine on sunny days but on dull days there is no where enough to charge the batteries fully. Indeed some days it is pretty poor. Come summer, I tend to charge the batteries for an hour max. overnight and there is usually more than enough sun to fully charge the batteries, supply the house and export the excess. But truthfully, I think just having a battery system coupled with the E7 tariff would have been far more beneficial compared to the outlay on the solar panels. Yes, it will make a payback but batteries are now zero rated VAT if you decide to add more (I added two more recently).

[@MrPDawes]

You want the Tesla rate through Octopus where your buy and sell price is symmetrically the same. But you do need a Tesla Powerwall to go with your solar.

[@liveitloveitlife]

strongly advise you get caging around the panels to stop the birds from getting underneath them as they can damage them.

[@SaltStorm007]

SUFFICED to say the picked the wrong one to try and mislead💯😁Glad everything worked out for you BBB!

[@charlesarnold4963]

Please note that "power per panel" is for the maximum amount of power the panel can generate when the sun is perpendicular to the panel under optimum conditions. At incident angles, other than perpendicular, the power generation is reduced. So morning and evening is less that high noon. Similarly summer and winter are very different. In practice; your roof will never be perpendicular to the sun and of course, if the roof were orientated ideally, then the maximum output would only be realised for an instant during one day (maybe two days) of the year (due to the rotation of the earth and the geometry of its orbit around the sun)! There are web sites which will do the calculations and determine the average power that the installation can generate according to location on the planet and the orientation of the panels. Notwithstanding the weather! Cloudy days generate less power than bright sunny days, so the amount of energy generated in a typical year will be much less than any salesman will tell you because only the peak performance is mentioned. Being a retired electrical engineer; I did the technical research. When a company contacted me (unsolicited) I told them my findings. Naturally they tried to BS me that their panels were superior and so on. Even so the difference in performance from that used in my research and especially the appallingly low price for me selling electricity back to the grid made it a non starter for me. Buyer beware...

[@Andrew-rc3vh]

Look on the map for the amount of solar radiation in a year in your area per square meter then multiply by the efficiency (should be .23 for good ones) and then make a correction for the angle. The radiation per meter sq is for a flat meter, where in my case my roof will give about 1.3 times. Max elevation is 62 degrees. Think of the size of a shadow for a meter square. That's the difference.

[@jimmorris5700]

Yep they want you to make money for them for nothing ! You bear the cost of providing it , Tory’s for you ! They been reducing the feedback every year since 2010 , lab bought it in an gave a generous amount ! But private profit comes first in rip off U.K. . You get 5kw soon they get 29p kw , T 34p. Thieving crims !

[@Andrew-rc3vh]

@@jimmorris5700 I've found a factory that makes 1m x 2m plastic flexible panels. You can get a micro-inverter to convert to mains and the payback on that is 2 years! Where do you get that kind of interest in a building society with the inflation we have? It seems like a no-brainer. Leave out the greasy salesman.

[@BSmith244]

Just wondered if you've considered a wind turbine so you can generate electricity during the dark hours? I've been looking at some and think combining the 2 would be ideal.

[@marklittler784]

cladding your property is another help

[@globally123]

I noticed the lighting is dimmer in this part 2. Are you economising lol

[@SELWYNMCELROY]

I had PV panels installed approx. a year ago (5kw) and had to wait a year for the Tesla Powerwall battery. In the meantime, I`m with one of the leading "renewable energy suppliers", they have had the benefit of all the extra electricity generated by my panels. This amounts on average to about 400kw per month. Now that the battery is installed (13.5kw), at this time of year I do not buy any electricity from the grid and am putting as much as 20kw a day back into the grid (@ an eighth of the cost of purchasing it from the supplier). I have changed my plan to one that generates an income from the extra electricity but this does not appear on my electric bills??? Smart meter is installed and my inverter is clocking up how much my panels have generated. So should be interesting to see how much they pay me for the excess electricity. I`M SO PLEASED THAT YOU HAVE SHONE LIGHT ON THIS TOPIC, MISAPPROPRIATION OF CUSTOMER GENERATED RENWABLE ENERGY!!!

[@clivebadger4251]

Bloody brilliant 👍

[@bobfish7699]

You forgot an element in the standing charge, the cost of paying for failed energy companies. Every-time an energy company fails, the costs are borne by the standing charge, NOT the companies. We all pay for this. And this is a big part of the reason why standing charges are rising so fast recently - lots of fly-by-night energy companies are failing. The standing charge would not rise so fast if it was just 'line rental', as you put. The consumer is in effect insuring energy companies against failure. Any other type of private companies would go bust with debts. Why is nobody talking about this? None of these energy companies actually generate or distribute gas / electric, they are just another form of hedge fund. They speculate on the wholesale energy market in the hope they can buy the gas or electric at a lower price that they can charge consumers. And so many of them have got caught out by the recent spectacular rises, they've gone bust. And yet we, the consumer, are paying for this in the form of a rising standing charge. It is a massive con by the private sector.

[@cwli1]

The whole thing is run by criminals.

[@Phill0old]

Where is the con? It's insurance. You won't get left without supply if your supplier, who you choose because he was cheaper because he was gambling which you supposedly condemn, gets it wrong and goes bust. You win either way.

[@jakebullet1731]

Private sector? The prices are monitored and capped by the government regulator. So it’s a communist system where bureaucrats run the system.

[@gmo4250]

The companies do go bust with debt. The “insurance” you refer to pays for the customers credit they had in their account. It ensures that their whole balance is carried over to a new provider and not a percentage of it. This is a lesson for OFGEM, they will have to tighten regulations on new energy companies. They have acknowledged it was not good enough.

[@Phill0old]

@@gmo4250 Who said they go bust without debt?

[@manumatila2675]

As a person who studied electronics and physics for two years before my insurance field, I have to say you did a hell of job explaining how the system works. Usually takes quite a deep dive to be able to explain it so simple and understandable

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

Flattered, thank you!

[@simonfraser6365]

As a physics grad and I concur.

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

@@simonfraser6365 🙏

[@Peace4Gaza]

agree 100%!

[@alexc4300]

It may be fiction, but it feels factual: do barristers rapidly become experts in all aspects of a case they take, to understand context for the case, and how to make and counter arguments? Six months later they may have forgotten much of it, but they’re experts in a new field? Any truth to this? I think it was attributed to Sherlock Holmes.

[@dave300m7]

You seem to have missed a very important point, the installer of the system needs to “MCS Certified” and provide you with a certificate to prove the installation complies with the regulations before you can (a) connect your system to the grid and (b) receive any payments for excess power you supply to the grid.

[@TheJacey]

And NIC and EIC registered certification boards.

[@persona250]

@@TheJaceyThere is no requirement to be NICEIC registered to sign off electrical work .

[@phil4986]

Great video. BBB, nobody thinks you were foolish. Your experience is giving us all an education. I am very happy that a genuine barrister who has no fear of telling the truth on KZbin is giving us all this information. I hope you get many decades of excellent use out of your new solar setup. But I have to admit, as a former roofer, seeing those gorgeous slate tiles drilled through to mount the panels to the roof would have broke my heart. Thankfully, you found a great company to do a professional job for you. You never disappoint with your video content.

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

Thank you 😊 🙏

[@thalesofmiletus2966]

When I studied at uni for my electrical and electronic engineering degree and I specialised in Electrical Supply in the early 80’s the Standing Charge was used to pay for plant. Nowadays the Standing Charge is another way of raising revenue.

[@babs3652]

You are a genuine, kind, sweet and extremely helpful person. ❤

[@johndoyle4723]

Thanks, to get the best out of a solar installation, you need a home battery and an EV, selling back to the grid at 3-4p is a waste of effort. During the day surplus goes to your home battery first, then your EV. In Winter, fill your home battery on overnight cheap rate to use during the day.

[@ingeborgsvensson4896]

Chinese Yingli Panda solarpanels are the ones I have, they are more expensive, better quality and longer life expectancy. Canadian solar is a cheaper brand, not particularly bad but a cheaper alternative for those who have less to spend. And of course they are also made in China. I had mine installed in 2012 after 2 years of extensive research. The system consists of 12 panels of 265W each, 3.2 kWp in total with an SMA Sunny Boy (German) inverter. Total cost back than was just over € 5,700 but of course they have gotten a lot cheaper lately. Rule of thumb back then was € 2 per Watt, should be a lot cheaper now. I earned my investment back in 2020, we have net metering here in the Netherlands, and I have about 80-85 coverage of all my energy needs. Well insulated appartement, induction cooker, air/air heatpump and I do not use natural gas. Hope someone benefits from this information. Most important: do a couple of months of research first, at the least.

[@johnh9449]

Good general advice. I would like clarification on the 540W double sided panels you were originally offered. They are available but are meant for grount standing or flat roof installations where they are pitched at an angle on stands and make use of additional light to the rear - which are not suitable for a pitched roof.

[@velogoo]

I was wondering about that myself.

[@technretro7115]

I have two bi facial panels as part of my system. They are on a flat roof which is painted with white reflective paint at an angle of roughly 47⁰. They are glass both sides so they are heavier than other panels but do charge from the reflected white roof. They are also half cell so continue to generate at a higher level as the shadow from the house creeps up them at the end of the day.

[@sds7870]

i said that on the previous video,just stupid really.waste of time unless freestanding.

[@technretro7115]

@@sds7870 sorry I didn't see the previous vid but your absolutely right. The only issue with them is if you want to add more stringed panels later. They are 49v panels which makes your choice of other panels in the future limited if you want to string more and not add another charge controller because of trying to match voltages.

[@thegamemaster6923]

So glad you were on top of things in the end. This could've happened to anyone. I still adore the content and the fact you give of your time in your videos. Respect 🙏 🤲 ❤️🇬🇧

[@sparkymark75]

You can sell your energy using the SEG scheme to any supplier. It doesn't have to be the same energy company you buy your electricity from. I do agree however, it's extremely unfair that you get paid a pittance in comparison to what you buy it for. Which is why I tend to try and use my generated electricity rather than selling it to the grid.

[@harrisonandrew]

Excellent video, very informative. Look forward to part 3.

[@nattybking]

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide this information Dan, the whole thing is a minefield to most people, including myself.

[@RikOshea007]

Great work Daniel, the best dummies guide to solar I have found, your skills of analysis & communication have given me some confidence in what I need to really consider to move forward with doing this, thank you very much

[@julielevinge266]

So glad you delved into this matter, badly needed advice on this topic so many thanks, good luck with your new system✊♥️

[@JohnCurtinmadrid]

Amazing, this company gets worse and worse! (watched your first video). I like your comment about sourcing small and local can sometimes be better. When I was checking out roofing for our off grid converted shipping containers here in Spain, I contacted several large, national companies and got what I thought were reasonable quotes. That was until I mentioned it to our village blacksmith over a coffee who basically called me a moron (the Spanish can be very direct, especially country folk) and explained why I was being taken to the cleaners (I won´t bore with the details). He then took me on a tour of the village pointing out all the roofs he´d installed for about 30% of what I´d been quoted per metre. He obviously got the job and three years on the roof is perfect with no problems at all.

[@Think666_]

They took over £7000 from me and I'm still trying to get a refund.

[@michaelblosser5277]

@@Think666_maybe @BlackBeltBarrister can represent you to get your money back.

[@starquakey1]

Look at Octopus Energy -> standard inbound tariff is 30p like you have now, but they offer Agile Export, which can pay up to £1 a unit at peak times (ie, lots more than 3p). It varies by the half hour and is often > 20p.

[@dudmanjohn]

The Octopus standing charge is lower than the 50ppd quoted by BBB.

[@simplifygardening]

Thank you, Daniel I have been following this series and have just contacted them for a quote. I have been messed about with companies telling me I can only have a 3kw system as they only want to use the stuff they have to hand. Hopefully, Kyle and Tom can help me sort out a better system. I was sure to let them know where I found out and placed the video link in the form too, so it might sway them to get on as you suggested, especially when it converts to customers. Have a great day

[@johndean1634]

Reason companies tell you that is because for larger systems over 4kw there are a lot of forms to fill in. These are all linked to Feed In Tariffs. DNO form for systems over 5kw can take months to get and around £400 pounds plus installers Mark Up. Then you need the MCS form which is standard. All this Delays the installing of larger system and puts off Companies who want the job asap.

[@simplifygardening]

@@johndean1634 If i have to wait its fine, but a smaller system won't do what I want

[@daze1945]

Don't forget that the structural integrity of your roof also needs to be considered when adding the extra weight and wind turbulence of the panels. That would obviously be done by the installers surveyor. My wife and I are retired and so generally at home in the daytime so on the face of it solar panels might seem like a good idea since we are using electricity during peak sunlight. I would be interested to see how your energy bill is affected by having the solar panels fitted. Of course that will take some time to determine plus the current inflated energy prices makes things more difficult to extrapolate.

[@danielr82]

Sky green energy - recommended on this video They advertise themselves as "Sky green energy Limited" - but there aren't any companies called that registered at companies house... They have no contact details for their registered business on their website. (only mobile numbers and free email addresses.) They have an unfinished website, (haven't even finished editing the template for their website.) They only registered their domain in July this year... - seems weird to go from all this "I checked this, I checked that" approach to choosing a supplier, to end up choosing a local operator that is all but impossible to actually check on...

[@AwareWolf_]

I live in Arizona, the scammers populate this area full time! Great warning video, your investigations were very helpful.

[@martinrandall3735]

Like most people - I am considering solar right now. This video (and the previous) could not have come out at a better time.

[@lehoff]

I get 15p SEG with octopus and their eco7 rate for me is 12p. So I use the night rate to top up batteries in the winter and in the summer I don't need to worry. This summer I basically drew nothing from the grid and mainly sold my energy for the best part of 3 months. It was a boon. Winter will always suck for solar, however you can get wind turbines to keep the batteries topped up.

[@kevinmatthews2620]

as to your point of not always using a national company, 12 years myself and my now deceased father went to a local"well estasblished" window firm for a price on triple glazing, the moement the salesperson told me triple glazing wasnt worth it, and they didnt fit it we left, we then travelled less than 400 yards to a lesser known window company, straight off the bat i asked about triple glazed windows, and the sales manager ,said yes we fit ,and the company who supplies are windows are having a 25% price reduction to drive sales because of upcoming change to part L building regs, i made arrangement for them to measure up, they measured up, i paid a 25% cash deposit and got a reciept to that fact, and was phoned a couple of days before install (2/3 weeks wait), and on the day of install i went down there and paid the balance all fine and dandy, i will say that the sales manager did tell us that he had measured a terraced house in the same town as i live for 6 windows a 2 doors(half glazed doors) and had priced it @ £2500, but when everest went round with a £11k quote the convinced the old female pensioner that they where the better option, yep Everest the national company,i have to say my triple glazed windows have saved me a fortune in heating cost and sound deadening is fantastic made by Camden windows in ireland couldnt be happier

[@nikocitroen]

Thanks so much Dan. I am in a similar situation, placed a 75% deposit (£5250) on Aug 9 with a confirmation that all materials were in stock. Scaffolding went up 5th Sep, nothing further heard. Contacted the company asking for a start date they agreed to send the installers round to commence work. Installers are employed by the company. Some of the rails and hooks fitted in the 2 hours they attended for. Hook flashing was not applied correctly, in fact completely at odds with manufacturers instructions leaving exposure and water ingress. Emailed the company Director with photos explaining my dissatisfaction and pointing out the mistakes. He attended my property yesterday, was vague as to why the flashing had not been undertaken properly but even vaguer on when the rectification would take place or indeed when the project would be completed, such is the demand at present. He left stating he ‘would be in touch’ nothing heard. Essentially I have lost confidence in both their standard of workmanship or their ability to complete the work in a timely manner. If I have heard nothing by this Friday I am considering cancelling and asking for a full refund. Not at all happy with the way some elements of this industry is treating customers!

[@norman7527]

Not only do we live in a country where so called trades (more like fly by night cowboys) continually try to rip off customers which are facilitated by a very well known publicity company

[@kieronparr3403]

You paid a 75% deposit. They saw you coming. Sorry but that's just insane. Get them reported to trading standards

[@bvgb921]

Daniel, My Utilita doesn't have a standing charge, so that electric supplier along with solar panels would be a great partnership.

[@andrewpeat530]

Good job, I have been in the renewables industry for over ten years and your advice and explanation provides a comprehensive overview and by going for a small firm with a trackable reputation will get a far better service. For most average families a 5kw battery will be adequate as you have to bear in mind what you will generate in the winter with short days verses long days in the summer . Most roof installations will be around 3.6kw which will work well with a 5kw battery. There are loads of good fitters out there who will offer loads of great advice. things only go wrong when there are to many people taking their slice of profit making system payback way to long. As a footnote inverters rarely last longer than 10 years so factor hardware replacement in the longer term and your roof instal may also require repair / checks every few years especially after storms and to check everything’s still in good condition(loose bolts, cracked tiles and general panel condition)

[@xmfclick]

_For most average families a 5kw battery ... _ :: I assume you mean a 5kWh battery bank? This equates to a 48V bank with a capacity of 100Ah (or 24V/200Ah, etc). There's a lof of confusion around between power output and energy capacity.

[@johndean1634]

@Pharisee Spotter That means you connect a Positive wire and a Negative wire to the inverter from the battery which comes in the box. Do you have to use a Torque Wrench to get the right tightness on the Nuts. Being a Contract Engineer I no how Sparkies like to think they are the Special Ones. Be more impressed if you went on about the failing to mention the 2 types of Battery a DC version or the AC version.

[@johndean1634]

Looks like you upset the Solar Battery Hybrid Qualified Electricians lmao. Must drop that on my Sparkie mates tomorrow it will be Priceless.

[@andrewpeat530]

Hi just to clear up my qualification to comment, I am currently a commissioning engineer in the commercial sector commissioning 50MW battery storage systems and large scale ground mount systems and as a side note a qualified solar edge installer for what that’s worth😂. I offer my opinions to help those not familiar with our industry, as there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation. Solar can be a great way to help consumers and the commercial sector including schools to save on their energy costs. Anything to give a better understanding and promote its use has to be encouraged.

[@whyyoulidl]

@@andrewpeat530 I've read this thread with a wry smile 😊 and must say that was a very measured response! Nonetheless, I thank you all for educating me as I embark on my solar install (at some point)...

[@sionnachog894]

Very helpful stuff...just one thing! You aren't shouting at a jury on the other side of a big room!

[@wybird666]

Not convinced with Sky Green Energy. They didn't respond to my quote request for some time - they said they were busy so that's fair enough. However, when they did contact me and arranged a consultation, they did not show up. They did not contact me before or after the no-show to explain why they had to miss it and did not reply to my message. I understand things can happen, but to not update your potential customers is not a good endorsement of a good business.

[@oldplucker1]

Just got quotes through .Useful video👍👍 Also note you can sell electricity to a different supplier at a better rate without changing your existing supplier. !

[@billienomates1606]

From the amount of lies and misleading and unforthcoming info. I for one would wish that you would name and shame this company as being, in my opinion, very underhanded in their approach to selling you this solar solution. If it is a nationwide company that has good ratings, not that that means a lot these days, to many people may be suckered in by the patter they give. Only to end up with a one legged donkey rather than a racehorse.

[@julianstafford7071]

Typical Barrister......let's use 10,000 words when a few dozen would do.....gawd, no wonder everyone nods off in court.

[@frogclip1]

From all the lies this original company told you, it sounds like it is in the public interest to name them. I am currently looking at getting a system installed and I personally would really like to avoid them. If they are a national outfit then it’s likely our paths will cross while I am looking for fitters so that increases the risk of me putting business through them unwittingly.

[@olivethrush7450]

One point to clear up when costing which way to go. If you go 'direct' to the scaffolding supplier you will pay the VAT. Only scaffolding supplied as 'the package' will be VAT free. Hence whilst incorrect that 'the scaffolding is ours and WE control it' they were correct in that it would be cheaper through them (IF they stuck to the letter of VAT ratings.)

[@whyyoulidl]

Yh true, but in reality this scheme - like a lot of govt bluster - is full of loopholes which 'allows' the provider to artificially inflate the underlying cost before magically deducting VAT. The more sales made, the more profit...

[@kenmcd2014]

I didn't think scaffolders bothered with anything as tedious as VAT. I thought it was mostly cash. Wink wink, say no more, say no more.

[@daddyo6553]

You could plug in to a hot water tank with a high header to Use excess electricity off your solar panels instead of using expensive batteries some may say what is a hot water tank and what the h*** is a Header tank Header tank. All the hot water free with showers and baths

[@dudmanjohn]

We have an unvented system, no header tank. Thanks to an iBoost sytem an average of 31% of the energy our panels generate is used to heat our water.

[@geoffvalenti]

I'm sorry Dan, but after all that you have said, I'd consider it your public duty to name the original company so that others don't fall foul of their shady tactics.

[@carronalee]

I agree. We the public don’t want to faff around finding out we get treated similarly by the company….and then we’d likely have to sue them (at great cost) to get our money back. He needs to let us know the name so that we may wish to avoid them.

[@remaincalm2]

Agreed. It's unfair for BBB to tell his viewers that he was misled multiple times by a company and then think it's okay to let his viewers gamble that they don't get involved with the same company. While it's helpful to learn some generic advice, people might not realise they've been misled until after they've signed the contract and the incorrect panels arrive. By then they've wasted a massive amount of time and it's causing a lot of unhealthy stress.

[@andaroo79]

The cynic in me makes this entire "saga" looks like it's made up.

[@Baiswith]

@@andaroo79 The thing with a 'national' company is that this experience wherever BBB is in the country is not going to be the same as someone else interacting with the same company elsewhere in the country, or hell, even in the same part of the country but different salespeople. The key takeaways from these videos are the legal aspects, which will apply whether it's solar panels, double glazing, building work, etc.

[@pw9015]

Did you have any issues with your DNO notification and obtaining permission for the solar installation.

[@itwork6810]

I have a friend who had 3 quotes from 3 different companies. I mentioned to each of them if they could install something that heats the hot water tank, as I had heard of something called Imerson. Some had heard of it and some also said there was no point in it. Despite that, he went ahead and had that installed. What it basically does is send electricity to the heating coil (I think that is replaced also) of the hot water tank, only when there is spare wattage available. The actual wattage required I think was about half of a regular heating coil. So it took longer to heat. However, during the entire day, there was a enough energy to drip feed this. I can tell you for a fact that it has been amazing. Hot water and more cost effective then selling energy back to the grid. I’m not sure if this product exists anymore but I highly recommend researching this. There may be other products. If you don’t want the extra expense of batteries then sending spare energy to your hot water tank heater is effective a store of energy that can be used later. So long as it’s actually used within a reasonable period of time.

[@terrykinross1]

I've had a similar device in operation for several years. It provides me with free hot water throughout the summer months with no need for top up electricity, it feeds the original immersion heater and provides a useful input of energy all year round but it is not necessarily adequate during less sunny months. There are several similar devices available and all are easy to install, it does however need a hot water cylinder, with immersion heater.

[@markeh1971]

Hiya, they are available and was advised by a solar company that this was the least cost option for most owners. We all use hot water. We will all end up with tanks again if you go heat pump rather than gas. Take care M

[@peakrider4886]

Hi BBB. I think this is the first time I’ve posted a comment on your channel, but this is a topic I have experience and am passionate about. I’ve had a complete system for over 18 months now, overall it has been excellent, and has protected us from the spiralling energy price market. I’d like to add the following comments from that experience. 1. If you heat your hot water via electricity you should look at adding a diverter to the system. This will use excess energy after the house load and battery charging to heat the water in your tank. 2. I would always advise battery storage with PV panels, even if you have a cheaper night rate, this usually doesn’t kick in until 12.30am, so if your batteries can power the house until then you’ll save quite a bit. 3. There are other export options out there. We are on the Octopus Agile Outgoing tariff and the lowest I’ve been paid is 13.6p per kWh, the highest has been 23.35p per kWh, so it’s worth again doing your research.

[@whyyoulidl]

Thx for your input; most useful for my early-stage viabilty exercise 👍🏿

[@stuartburns8657]

I'm on Oculus Go, but can I mix and match and use the outgoing agile for a better export rate?

[@peakrider4886]

@@stuartburns8657 no unfortunately if your on the Go tariff the Agile Outgoing isn’t available to you. Their fixed export tariff is which I think pays out 7p per kWh.

[@stuartburns8657]

@@peakrider4886 Thanks. I've got a very recent install. 15 x 400w panels, 5k inverter and 8.2k battery. Moved to the Go tariff for the winter / cheap top up price for the battery, but early indications are that might not be needed. I'll give things until March so I have a better understanding of the 'worse times' in terms of lower daylight hours and bad weather. Still waiting for the official paperwork so I can get paid for exporting anyway!

[@peakrider4886]

@@stuartburns8657 that’s a decent set up for starters, but of course it depends on lots of variables and your energy usage to see if that will be enough. Being on the Go tariff will allow you to charge the batteries overnight at a decent price. I use this strategy during the winter so I can discharge during the daytime when the electricity price is higher and there’s little power being generated by the panels. You’ll figure out what is best for you, just takes times, experience, and definitely trial and error.

[@richarddickson6559]

Thank you for sharing all of this. I want to get solar and this has definitely helped. I suspect many of these companies are using the same sale techniques as double glazing salesmen. I will take my time. I don’t doubt you have helped many with this video

[@tonystroud3412]

i can’t get over some people criticising you over various on this video. I understood exactly the points in why you made these video’s, and it’s very helpful and thankyou for taking the time (your time) to help others out that might fall for some of mis selling or other things that goes on with this kind of stuff that goes on

[@fredbiscuit...413]

Sky Green Energy - soundz like the a company that others should aspire to be like! Great video BBB :) 😀

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

👍

[@charlie.charles]

In my personal experience (of facebook) most if not all ads that I see relate to cheap Chinese crap

[@herrtomas6729]

Another detail often missed is that the efficiency can depend on the angle of your roof. Generally, I believe, the angle of the panels should match your latitude angle depending on your location. Also, the incident angle of the sun to the panel.... Ideally you should re-angle them with the seasons - not realistic for a domestic installation; so be prepared that your investment might not produce the power you expect, even if fully south facing. Consider, if you have scope for choosing the angle, whether you should maximise the power you can harness in the winter when you need it most?? Especially if you have a battery bank to store it during the shorter days.

[@hotlush]

While it makes a difference it's less than people expect, every 1 degree off "perfect" only reduces efficiency at worse by ~0.5% and that's also time of year dependent. Summer it makes little to no difference, winter more of an effect.

[@stuartmays]

This is why I over-researched solar systems before I fitted one to my campervan, Bit of a minefield but you explained it perfectly. On a side note, I opted for a 375w panel with a Renogy inverter and 365ah of batteries. A huge bit of a game changer to be fair. Good job man.

[@jameswhite1755]

It’s sad, however beautiful that there is a portion of the session dedicated to addressing the issues and questions from the channel. All the more important given the context of the channel

[@braingasim]

Some things to take into consideration, if you get a small company to do your work and the company goes out of business, any warranty help then you need to look for another company to help you out which can cost a lot more. We’ve had our system for almost 10 years, our inverter died on us, luckily it was still in warranty from the manufacturer so they had someone locally come and replace inverter. We’ve also had two of our panels crack on us, which had to be repaired. One of them was covered in the warranty by the manufacturer the other one we had to pay for.

[@dorianleakey]

With companies going out of business, the one with the high pressure sales technique and dishonest practice is likely to use bankruptcy and restarting new companies, even though they shouldnt, to avoid liability for their mistakes.

[@chrisengland5523]

It's important to pay at least part of the cost by credit card. That way, the credit card is jointly liable if something goes wrong and the company is no longer around. (There are a few caveats, which I've not bothered explaining.)

[@grahamwoodier5066]

Thanks for the video. My experience of solar installation has been a little different, fortunately. I requested just two quotations. One from a company that simply supplied a quote using an image of my roof from a satellite and asked me no questions. The other sent their MD around for a 2hr+ on-site survey and during the visit he offered me several options and answered all my questions. This second quote was only about 10% higher but I knew exactly what I was about to buy. There was no deposit required but I was expected to pay in full following successful completion. In the event I only managed to get an invoice out of them two months after commissioning. My advice - research the technology and check out the installation company you plan to use.

[@michael_mouse]

... electric/gas/water 'standing charges' are just one huge con... why should the consumer constantly pay for the sellers supply chain?... when you fill up your car, do you pay a standing charge for the forecourt pumps?.. when you go the supermarket, do you pay a standing charge for cost of the building?.. all utility standing charges should be abolished

[@Bruce4lmighty]

☝🏼Knowledge. Totally agree Michael 👍🏻

[@sarahgray8142]

So sorry to learn of Queen Elizabeth. Didn't know where else to give my condolences so my apology.

[@bdr200]

In addition to maximising the number of panels on your roof and the layout they will be in, consider future access to maintain the panels and guttering, roofline fittings, chimneys, ariels, etc. Contrary to what salespeople tell you, panels do need cleaning. After the recent (early September 2023) light rain containing fine Saharan dust, in Cheshire, our panels have a visible layer of dust on them so today in bright sunshine the power output has been significantly diminished. A weekend task is to go onto the roof to clean them, a job I perform 2 or 3 times per year. Also consider shadow effects from trees and buildings etc. which can reduce the amount of direct sunlight falling on some or all panels. The array of panels are wired in series then shadowing on one panel can restrict the flow of current throughout them all. I believe newer systems are wired to avoid this by wiring them in independent blocks of panels or better still if each panel has a separate circuit connecting it to the inverter. Naturally, the way the panels are wired needs to match the input specification of the inverter. Inverters get hot when working hard which is going to be during the Summer in bright sunshine. When siting the inverter, ensure it is somewhere that receives adequate ventilation or it has its own built-in cooling system. An inverter located in a stuffy attic can struggle to keep cool which could result in it overheating.

[@kerbalkerman6827]

Important question - is it possible to charge the batteries from the grid? If you could use the cheaper night rate (mine is about 75% less) you coud save a small fortune charging the batteries at night and drawing from them during the day when solar isn't enough.

[@theredcat-bearfulgens5357]

Yes, with the right equipment. But not all electrical supply company's do this though. You also don't want to charge your battery up overnight if tomorrow is going to be sunny enough to supply electricity to both supply your household needs and recharge your battery.

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

PART 1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZqcZ3-glpWMg8k

[@woodydroneson]

DANGEROUS EXPERIENCE HAD BY ME OFF-GRID KIT. Interesting Video, I purchased a kit from Eco-Worthy 1360 watts only and all arrived very fast and were of good quality, then I looked at the cable sizes and other components and worked out that some appeared to be of incorrect size 30 amp capable receiving up to 40 amps I contacted them and initially they replied, then when I pointed out the kit should have had a PV Combiner Box, they failed to reply and now they sell the same kit with a PV Combiner Box included, I guess I was right! The company is not bad, but customer service is non-existent!

[@ChandanaYapa-hq3ge]

You should let everyone what is the company,

[@chrisgaskell3706]

I know a few electricians who recently jumped onto the solar gravy train. I told one that I was interested in a small 6kw system, and in passing he said I was looking at 8-10k installation fees. With a little work done of my own, everything barring the electrics, I got it down to 1.2k. Bought my hybrid inverter and 7.5kw lithium batteries 3x 2.56 stackable direct from the manufacturer for 2.5k, panels from a well known store 450w x 13 for 1.7k total 6kw system 6.4k completed. I do have a flat roof terrace and access, so no scaffolding required, built a small brick shed for equipment. I have the array on frames that follow the sun, this was put together using an old motor and system that used to drive a telescope.

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

That is what worries me. There are the outright scammers, and the rip off exploiters too who see an excuse to overcharge hugely for their time. They quickly start to believe they 'deserve' double pay or whatever, all the time after a while. So however many quotes you get they all have become used to grossly overcharging as they 'can' get away with it. Much like BBB mentioned basically keeping all the vat help from the government themselves.

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

What happened to part 3?

[@jimthatcher3952]

I came to ask that!

[@markrichardson5496]

To get your refund, at what point did you say “do you know who i am” 😂

[@iansparrow8877]

So you proceeded with only one quote.The Gov site recommends at least three quotes.This not only gives you a price comparison but also you are able to use the presentations from each company to cross question the presenters and gain valuable knowledge.This isn’t just for this product but for all expensive purchases.I would thought this was a given.I am surprised such a switched on guy doesn’t appear to have done this and also falling for the ‘must have the deposit today ‘ I find amazing .Have you never had past experience with double glazing salespeople? The immediate response is no.

[@clivewilliams3661]

It is better to have a degree of street wisdom than to have to rely on the law, no matter how strong a case you (think you) have. As a naive amateur in the installation of solar panels I would have and have in the past invited other installers to provide a quote and that would have better informed me as to what I should expect and for what cost and certainly be sceptical of any company that offers a discount for 'signing up here and now' because you will definitely not be getting the best value (it won't be their bottom price) and if it turns out to be lower than others then ask - how is that possible? As regards the scaffolding it would have been wise to have all the scaffolding removed and then to order your own if required because that will draw a line under the first contract and there cannot be any future comeback. I could imagine that the scaffold company would not get paid for any erection or day rate and the original company would charge you that in any case only then for you to have 'discussions' with the scaffold company later when they charged you the same amount. Also, expect the original installation company to charge 'full retail' price rather than the discounted prices they and you would have been charged. It is wise to be very cautious when employing sub-contractors that were engaged on the job by the main contractor because if they haven't been paid for what they have done then expect that amount to be charged to your bill whether it is valid or not. It is highly doubtful that any sub-contractor will sue the main contractor for a small sum because of the costs of going to litigation and when most likely the award will not be 100% in favour of the claimant. I have known sub-contractors being owed money on several jobs by the same main contractor in the vain hope of getting something back. Also, if the sub-contractor sues the main contractor, assuming it doesn't go to adjudication, then the subbie fears he will get a reputation for litigation that will prevent him getting further work from other contractors.

[@whyyoulidl]

Great points, great comments; Thx - most useful 👍🏿

[@Ormsby504]

Love your videos, always concise and informative. I'm looking into solar now so your advice and guidance is invaluable. Thankyou!

[@blackscreenrelaxation9463]

The algorithms of KZbin ironically accompany this video with an advert (like your instagram one) for a 'free' solar panel installation quote from a company !!

[@davidhart8185]

When we both worked during the day most power went back to the grid and didn't get much back. Now we are both retired, what would have gone to the grid is now used in house giving us a larger saving. Remember the panels are guaranteed for 25yrs but the inverter for only 5yrs. Not sure how long batteries are guaranteed. We've slowly replaced equipment, when needed, with rechargeable ie garden, power tools etc.

[@keithdenton8386]

Double glazing, Alarm systems, now Solar panels are getting the same treatment. I speak from experience. I have done training with the sales training for these people. The easiest marks are teachers, doctors, and professional people.

[@dudmanjohn]

Not surprised that professionals are easy marks. We tend to assume others have the same ethical standards as ourselves.

[@stevel9914]

@@dudmanjohn rubbish ... it;s because many of these have an ego, many are on board with the "latest thing", many trust the government who propagandise everything. If you haven''t learned anything from the last 2 years ,,,, well what can I say.

[@everythingtechnew7400]

Thanks for the video & your comments on the 20% vat. I’m currently waiting for my installation & have just calculated the cost of the equipment being supplied & the total charged. The company I’ve chosen looks to be charging me just shy of £5,000 for 1 day straightforward installation. Surely that’s excessively overcharging & there’s some recourse in law. It’s the same when scammers door knock & charge elderly people £2,000 to refit a “loose” roof tile. They’ve also not supplied a cost breakdown just a final price.

[@johndean1634]

Yes the cost of Installing these things is mind blowing. Plug and Play has never been so expensive lol. Hardest part is fixing the panels to the roof.

[@everythingtechnew7400]

@Pharisee Spotter I think if barristers earned over £900k per annum they wouldn’t be going on strike. As an installer working a two man team @ £5k per install they’d pocket over £600,000 per year each minus expenses. Something isn’t right there either I’m completely off or overcharging is off the scale.

[@everythingtechnew7400]

@Pharisee Spotter are you an installer?

[@everythingtechnew7400]

@Pharisee Spotter So is £600,000 per annum around the right figure & what overheads would they have? Obviously you’re 100% more qualified to answer your question than I am.

[@everythingtechnew7400]

@Pharisee Spotter What are you saying? I was asking about the installation costs & yearly revenue of an installation engineer.

[@emissivity]

Fantastic vidoe (& part 1). Simple to understand information. Much appreciated 👍

[@lmaoroflcopter]

There's another red flag to watch out for on these things too. "Will your wife/husband be home?" They won't come around as they'll want to be able to pressure you or your partner into signing. They only need to break one of you.

[@willdatsun]

good vid but small note , battery capacity should always be given in kWh (or units) not kW

[@groovedodger]

What are your thoughts on people online suggesting its lawful to buy your own meter off ebay and get it competently fitted = no more bills ?

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

Total rubbish

[@martynayshford4318]

I'm in the same boat, struggled to get companies round to quote and those that do are not shall we say entirely transparent. The ones that have so far quoted are selling what they can source rather than what is best and as you found out inflated their prices and want to specify systems that don't require DNO approval. Another wheeze, trying to get a signed letter so they can get that DNO approval, which would be bad if you decided to dump the supplier after doing so. For info for a bigger system, only sign that once completely sold on a supplier. Poor old skygreen's web site is now down and they'll have more work than they can handle. I would definitely use them if possible. What did you end up going with for panels, inverter and battery?

[@mikemorse3083]

Glad you have done an update on this issue I was only thinking today we haven’t seen anything on this 👍

[@KarrierBag]

So far I have fitted 500w solar on my boat, I reckon I can squeeze another 500w on. I think for my needs 1Kw will be enough :-)

[@jamest5149]

Remember with reviews you get roughly 10x as many negative because happy people tend to just get on with life and negatively ‘effected’ people moan to everyone, everywhere.

[@georgeholmes1837]

A good and informative set of information.One point that may be of interest is that a lot of sales and instalation personal are contractors and work on a commisson only basis. I worked on the double glaging boom many years ago and recognised many aspect of your report.

[@EnglishVeteran]

Running a petrol/gas/diesel 3-5Kw Generator is now cheaper than using the grid!

[@jennyhunter9346]

Thank-you for such a clear and concise explain action of the solar panel minefield. Much appreciated.

[@Sworn1301]

@BlackBeltBarrister The company is run by its owner, acting as director in all but name, as he is barred from being a director due to fraud and scamming in his past. He went to prison for it also. The entire previous racket was ousted on Rogue Traders. Happy to shed more light on this for you.

[@johngrice2246]

So what , if all is good now live and let live

[@Sworn1301]

@@johngrice2246 except it isn't, clearly they are employing same practices of deception and scamming

[@doubletee5250]

One thing to remember when having solar and, or batteries fitted. If you don't have a backup gateway fitted, and there is a power cut, your system will shut down.

[@YUDNSAY]

I prefer manual control, then, generally, you just need a torch for a short while, unless the batteries are not charged.

[@whyyoulidl]

What's a backup gateway? Are we talking something that an old school backup generator would do to keep the installed system 'ticking over'?

[@doubletee5250]

​@@whyyoulidlIf your area suffers a power cut, your system will shut down. Both solar and any battery backup. You get to suffer the power cut too, even though you generate your own power. This happens to prevent anyone working on the grid from being electrocuted by power feeding into the grid. A Backup Gateway stops any electricity flowing into the grid when it senses a drop in the grid, but allows your system to continue operating.

[@doubletee5250]

This is a better explanation. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYGYYn2go7ypgtE

[@whyyoulidl]

@@doubletee5250 Ah, thx got ya now. Nice one 👍🏿

[@janefitzgerald2902]

Some really good advice here! We got solar panels 18 months ago - but we DID get full specifications on the panels, the inverter and the batteries AND full written guarantees on each of them before we paid them a penny. It can be really hard-sell but it is essential to get at least 3 quotes from reputable companies (literally checked through Companies House) and then to play those companies off against eachother to get the price reduced. It is also important to realise that solar panels will only reduce your electricity bills and not eliminate them altogether - solar panels these days don't require bright sunshine but they don't work well on a cloudy, rainy day. Having said that, we are thrilled and those solar panels have really made a difference to our bills....over the summer we were paying around £12 per month for gas and electric (we had the gas turned off and just used the immersion heater on a timer for hot water - but we DO have a quooker tap for boiling water); this includes the standing charge and also takes into account the fact that we are careful when we use our dishwasher and washing machine. Whilst that is obviously going to go up over the winter months as we require heating, that increase is going to be offset by the solar energy which never entirely goes away. We use Octopus Energy and our feed-in tariff is 7.5p per KW which is pretty good. If you can afford the up-front cost then it really is worth investing in solar energy - it is the only way we would be able to stay in our house once I retire! I would warn against buying the panels separately and having them installed by a fitter because that could cause problems with guarantees should any issues arise - a bit like Sky for TV and BT for Broadband...if there is a problem they both blame eachother....but maybe that's just me!

[@derekskinner4939]

Agree about "NEGATIVE " comments on Companys items.......With items that I HAVE to purchase online I always check the "comments" section and am quite surprised about some of the comments that I read....So yes read them but also read carefully the POSITIIVE comments

[@bimble7240]

13:49 Taking the VAT off reduces the cost by 16.67%, not 20%. Taking the price down from 120% to 100% is a 16.67% reduction. This is a very common mistake.

[@permeus2nd]

so our local council actually signed up to be a partner with a solar energy company that turned out to be a scam, ive no idea how it managed to get fully signed up but its quite a mess. solarplicity im naming them as they have ceased trading, they turned up and fitted panels while homeowners were away even after canceling the contracts, out of the 20 or so people that had the panels fitted 18 of them have got leaking roofs now.

[@whyyoulidl]

Thx, this is useful to know; I'm sure I've heard of said ex company...

[@jimmorris5700]

What we all forget from idiot to genius is all other energy is a noun ( gas oil coal wood peat etc ) so can be stored economically . Electricity is a verb ! It’s a force pressure whatever , once it stops so does lecky . So it cannot be stored IT has to be converted into a storage medium pumped hydro chemical battery etc , and just like LNG is dear because of conversion so is lecky . Solar is only good for between 35% north and 35 % south as sun is most constant , unlucky for europe most of us are north of 35% Africa s America pop Asia an n America south of Great Lakes OZ JAPAN are sorted , europe an Canada are fracked .lol It’s wind or nothing , and that’s out of the question domestic . IF ONLY WE COULD STORE SUMMER SOLAR FOR WNTER USE sadly a impossibility 🤦‍♀️

[@KnightShift006]

They gave you a freebie?? Not worth the money sending a guy to take it down and pack it 🤣 Simple caravan/motorhome invertor all-in-1 power UK plug x2-4 USB X 2 and live earth. As I aforementioned 1 low power geared stepper cog shaft size teeth match 2+ making magic Merlin power... A 12v battery does connect and if always windy or sunny it'll power the house without a battery 🔋 my mother has Been informed. A little RPM Adjustment.. It'll pump recyctrix through the invertor to the AC and DC devices electric goods

[@anthonydyer3939]

I’d appreciate a greater discussion on solar panels vs planning permission. They are in general considered to be “permitted developments”, but there are some caveats such as the need to “minimise the visual impact on the property”. Such conditions are interpreted differently by different councils. I’ve heard some suggestions that a maximum number of panels is permitted, but I haven’t seen any literature to back that up. Then you have DNO (District Network Operator) approvals which are required for systems that generate more than 16Amps per phase. This is required prior to connecting your system to the grid. This is applied for by your installer using a form called G99. Then there’s the impact of solar panels on Home insurance. Most insurance companies don’t make any mention of them, but for one question: what is the material on your rooftop? If it’s mostly concrete/slate tiles then that’s fine, but if it’s mostly solar panels then that could prompt further questions and conditions.

[@brassj67]

Get at least two quotes apples for apples preferably three and know exactly what you are getting. If I decide to use solar, it will be completely off grid. I am living in Canada and I am paying 10.5c per kWh or 6.2p per kWh. Charges are about $150 per month or £88

[@danohanlon8316]

The real scary part of this saga is that the unnamed company involved was no cowboy outfit-that it is “a large (“national and fairly reputable”) company with money in the bank.” If such a company can behave like cowboys, what do the actual cowboy. companies behave like? On the VAT angle, the old adage would seem to apply there-that, “If you want something done right you must do it yourself”; thus, to source and buy the equipment yourself, absorb the vat, and hire some local (qualified) tradesmen to install it.

[@mbkmmodels9406]

Solar power isn't new by any means but in the main stream it is for domestic power (Your home). What Daniel is saying here highlights that some form of legislation should be brought in for the companies who are effectively selling equipment to people who's knowledge is minimal or non existent of solar power. Also if you have asbestos roof tiles this then increases the prices as asbestos is carcinogenic (The dust can kill you). In my view the fitting of this should be done by the power providers (Your electric company) to show they are helping the environment. This would then create a subsidy. In our gloomy and not that much sunny UK people have to be explained to properly about the peaks and troughs of fitting and using solar power.

[@dianapark1586]

I got a refund for the same reasons (past the date) MISREPRESENTATIONS Thx for stating the ACT, some people dont know it exist.