My "Final" Thoughts On Singer Heavy Duty Sewing Machines

[@debraclogston9379]

Life has a funny way to intrude. My sewing has gone to second position also, family care issues. You are still on of my favorite furry faced men.

[@BorisYeltzin]

I just got mine and used it for the first time today. Made a rifle sling and put PALS on a chicom chest rig. Now I am hooked.

[@alp-1960]

Thanks Jason. I admit I wanted the "Heavy Duty" machine to fail, but I'm glad to see you didn't waste your money in the end.

[@socaloutdoors7355]

I’ve been watching for awhile now…4 years or so…really gave me a great insight & info on projects and sewing in general. I bought a Singer 603 in a table, pretty much primo condition for 25 bucks at an estate sale. I love it, I’ve had cheap plastic Brothers & Singers and this one with just occasional maintenance is a workhorse. One day I will get a industrial style machine as I like to make items, pouches, organizers, etc for camping. Taking apart and salvaging the material/fabric on those cheap camping chairs can make some awesome projects! Thanks always for the great vids over the years!

[@de1726]

Sorry for length of this but I think you just firmed up a conclusion I've spent about a month painfully coming to. I have the 4452 HD and have been trying to sew nylon webbing with nylon thread. It fails in spectacular fashion every single time. The machine can punch through two and three layers of webbing perfectly fine, probably more, so it doesn't seem to be a power issue. If it fits under the presser foot it's getting run through. Needle size I'm using is 110/18. The issue seems to be the thread weight the machine can handle. I initially sewed the webbing using that basic thin cotton thread you'd find anywhere, and it worked fine (it was what I had on hand). I knew I couldn't trust it for load bearing purposes but the machine performed well going through the material. Didn't struggle at all on three layers. Then I ordered some Tex70 because of the strength requirement and that's where things went bad. Resulted in bunching underneath and rat's nest jams inside the machine that were all but welded in there and had to be cut out. So I went down to Tex45. Same disaster. Switched back to the wispy cotton. Sewed it up like a champ, no problems. After hours of frustration, miles of wasted material I discovered that Singer recommends no more than 30wt thread in a 4452 HD (I don't know what 30wt is in Tex but guessing it's pretty thin). Not sure how a machine can be called HD when it can only use lightweight thread? But.... then I happened upon one of your other videos where you were using Tex70 on leather with no problems! After all the issues I'd been having I was floored by that. Now watching this video, and my experience with nylon webbing and various thread options, I think it's an issue of the combination of nylon webbing and nylon thread. 3 ply nylon webbing + wispy cotton thread = success. 1 ply nylon webbing + Tex30 and up = disaster. Has to be some kind of a tension issue introduced by the material. Maybe the hole you punch in the leather allows for the thread to be taken up more easily than the constant grip of nylon webbing? Regardless, the machine doesn't seem to be able to be tensioned high enough to handle it. Not sure how to solve it. You'll probably laugh but out of desperation I went and bought one of those hand crank Chinese leather cobbler machines for $125 Amazon. If it doesn't work out at least I can return it. I make a lot of stuff out of 1 1/2" nylon webbing (suspension trainers, harnesses, etc.) using stitching as well as grommets so while it's a shame the Singer 4452 is probably never going to be useful there, maybe the cobbler machine will. Thanks for the great videos. They really helped.

[@thejasonofalltrades]

That's great info, thanks for adding to the conversation!

[@leighmeagher6836]

I bought this machine. It replaced a very old machine my mum gave me (it was probably 50 years old). I love it. It’s a great “all rounder” for a beginner.

[@robinbebbington7063]

I had a similar experience when I went from a mechanical Janome to an electronic Janome. I found the electronic one had more power, was easier to control and had some really nice features such as needle up/down and thread cutter. If someone gives you a machine to test have a go on something like a Janome 3160QDC. Keep enjoying your other pastimes and interests.

[@ethelryan257]

My late mother loved her electronic Janome machine. Don't recall the model, but it was a while back and it was really a good machine. A lot of the Baby Lock snobs don't realize that their outstanding machines are Janome made.

[@marksmale827]

We all have ups and downs in any particular interest if we have a variety of interests. I go through mad-keen sewing phases alternating with "leave-it-for-later" phases.

[@JebbAdams]

Awesome Jason! I consider it to be a heavy duty domestic machine. It can do heavier fabrics at 1100 stm! Cool! I am going to purchase a 4452 with extension today. It was great to be back binging about these beauties!

[@ecay]

My mother purchased a version of this machine that you have here. She never got to use it other than getting it out and just looking at it before she passed away the hook. The shaft on the hook developed some rust and the machine had to be thrown away. There was no way to repair it. There was no way to buy the part and have it fixed. I spent months trying to find a reasonable part. Anytime I can find it. It was at least half the cost of the machine and I had in my opinion much better machines. I had a Kenmore from the '70s and I have some singers and a few others. I have no way of knowing whether or not the machine actually ran good, but for it to develop rust as easy as it did in a crucial area that just basically killed the machine. I will never purchase one. I'm glad this one worked and I'm glad all the people that have them. They work great and I could have had just a bad luck with this machine and it could have been bad when my mom purchased it. We don't know because she never used it other than she opened it up sat on our table and she looked at it. That was it

[@MikkoRantalainen]

If your home is damp enough to get stuff rusted indoors, you should definitely look up getting humidity down.

[@ecay]

@@MikkoRantalainen problem is is nothing else rusted just that machine and the only place it rested was on the shaft for the hook. That was it. Nothing else on the machine. Rusted but it was enough to seize the machine now in all honesty she never used that machine. She pulled it out of the box she looked at it. She never plugged it in and it could have been something that was rusted from the factory or from the store or whatever and she just never knew it. But it was a machine that was never used not one time and that was the way it was when I found it after she passed away

[@dennyfosburg882]

Thanks for the update. I have the 4452 model which is "heavy duty".....seems to work well with most fabrics. But I did buy a Sailrite LS for the heavy webbing/bags/fabric projects. Thanks for the input. And happy to see you back!!! Was concerned that you had not posted in some time. I will learn to be patient with you!! Keep up the good work!!

[@eugeneslagle7935]

Thank you sir. I greatly appreciate your work on this subject, I purchased a similar Singer HD 4424 for my daughter before I watched any of your videos as a replacement for the light duty she had that went belly up. So far it has worked very well for her, but then she hasn't done any materials like you & I have worked with yet.

[@Idaho-Idaho]

Thanks for the discussion. I was able to use one of these Singer HD machines a few months ago when my sister-in-law was having troubles. Her machine just needed a new needle. Now, it sews fine. Yes, these machines perform well but I would never buy one simply because of the massive amount of plastic it contains. Just last week I picked up a Singer 15-91 (in a cabinet) for $40. Runs perfectly and looks great. Yes, it's a straight-stitch but I don't use any of those fancy stitches simply because I don't want anyone getting close enough to view them.

[@ethelryan257]

I have a Singer serger - to the horror of my quilting friends who would rather die than be caught using any Singer made after 1962. I takes care of everything my 401A and industrial Singer don't do. For me, stitch quality is the absolute and there is nothing I have ever used which plays in the same league as my 401A on difficult materials.

[@carbarrer6]

Wow, jack of all trades indeed. Nice piano playing!👏

[@thejasonofalltrades]

Thank you!

[@shadowgolem9158]

Thank you very much for your honest review and testing. This has been a great lesson in how to use this and what to expect from it.

[@ajkolodziejski118]

The biggest take away I’ve learned after discovering your channel is there is no one machine for everything. My interest are as varied as yours, happy to say my ratio of vintage machines is 3:1. Looks like the “new boat” is performing well. Happy fishing.

[@MIkeMajeske]

hi you are correct about webbing doesnt matter what kind needle thread just doesnt like it ... i think its because the machine likes to go fast and when your sewing 1 in webbing it just wont work.

[@ethelryan257]

I really appreciate your hard work on this. I'm definitely a vintage person. A while back, I helped a young neighbor set up and use her Singer HD (looks like the same one you tested, there are several). Came away with two impressions: One, I need an electronic speed control for my 401A. I think most of this machine's appeal lies in the motor and the speed control. 99%, more or less. Two, it sews well and sounds and feels like one step above Hasbro. Not quite Mattel quality. I definitely can see a difference in the quality of the stitches on really fine materials - the 401A does a better job, though, to be fair, the HD did just fine. I don't think it's quite as picky about the balance between upper and lower thread tensions, which for a beginner is a really good thing. One would expect some advances after 60 years. I ordered a really good electronic speed control for my 1959 401A. Installed it (I'm an electrician). At that point, the Singer HD had nothing left to offer which was better. Especially on difficult, thin, slippery fabrics. Singer hit a home run with that speed control/motor combination. If I didn't have a serger and I didn't care about stitch quality as much as I do, and I didn't worry about the harm cheap plastic is doing to our environment, it would be a good choice for me. Main thing, and sorry for the long comment, you actually put it to a fair test and it did really well for you. The other reviews all pretty much either put it in a commercial environment sewing 14oz. denim 24/7 for two weeks then saying "Ha! Told you it was junk!" when it blows up or, put it up against a poorly set up Brother and then have it sew muslin shirts, after which proclaiming 'it's the best!' We here at SIMANCO, er, uh...we here at SVP totally think this is the best machine ever made!"

[@ScottPDX]

15:40...all trades indeed. Thanks for the summary. Got same machine along with my Sailrite. Keep going back between them depending on job.

[@andriashevetz2888]

Do what you want to do!!!! When I want you I'll Look to You, don't apologize for what you do. Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas!!!!!

[@spooling_around]

I just picked a 4411used from Facebook Marketplace. I was on the fence about these machines, but your videos helped me decide to give it a try, plus the price was a steal. I have a 50-year-old Necchi that is supposedly heavy duty. I'm going to do a side-by-side comparison.

[@marksmale827]

Interesting to see that Jason has kept the Bernina 930, described to me by a sewing mechanic as the one machine "where they (the manufacturer) got everything right". Probably the machine I would choose if I had to choose but one out of my now well oversized collection.

[@bartellinomathis5161]

agreed! simply the best.

[@thejasonofalltrades]

I almost hate to say this, but I have it listed for sale locally at the moment (at least at this time I am not looking to ship). One of the finest machines (of any category) I've used, but it just doesn't fit into my world as well as other machines.

[@RevJosephWashburn]

Thanks for this series! I recently got into learning to sewing to do some light canvas work for our new sailboat. I looked at one of these Singer HD machines and wondered how it would work. I think it would have been just fine. But...I really love my 1961 Singer 328K I picked up. (But if something happens to it, I'll be looking at one of these!)

[@marksmale827]

The S328 (known as The Tractor for the way it chugs along) is remarkably good for heavier fabrics.

[@ethelryan257]

It's incredible how good those Scottish machines were. I always wonder what happened to UK quality. Those were every bit the equal of the Italian and German machines of their era.@@marksmale827

[@Petestleger]

An excellent, fair review series. Thank you Jason.

[@jasrenfro9856]

The HD is one of the better big box sewing machines. They have a sturdy internal frame and you can upgrade the motor if you want. There are better cheaper, used machines, but for someone who wants to buy a durable solid machine that's new, and not traditional plastic trash. I've never used this machine but I almost bought on last year. Too much hate for what that machine was designed for.

[@yayrayday]

Funny that this vid was sent to me as I was scouting out machines on sale to expand from bare basics light garment materials. I just bought exactly the kit you got for the same reasons (nice add ons.) I was planning to sew max 2 layers of lower weight 1-3oz leather for accessories and from the looks of it, it should manage okay if I go slowly, use the walking foot and treat it well. I'm just a hobbyist, so I won't be beating it up daily. My Brother xl-2600 has lasted me since 2008 and still works well enough.

[@kayak_homie]

I just stumbled across your channel while looking up how to sew PALS webbing... and now I want to see some videos of you ripping whatever boat that was!

[@thejasonofalltrades]

Thanks! My second channel, The Jason WINS, is where I post outdoors (running, fishing, boating and whatever else I get into) content. I don't think the boat has its own video yet, but boat content will end up there soon. It's an old Carolina Skiff J14, by the way. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@backpacker3421]

There is no comparison between vintage plastic gears and modern plastic gears. Materials technology has come a LONG LONG way. Modern plastics encompass a HUGE range of durability, plasticity, etc and are generally VERY well tailored (pun) to their specific use in any product that isn't dirt cheap. It's very likely that the gears will last as long as the machine and be far quieter than metal gears ever could be

[@ethelryan257]

There is no question that today's plastics are better than the junk they were using in the 1950's/60's and 70's. Where they did use Text-o-lite or really high quality nylon, the gears have lasted (see the KA45 stand mixers). Still, based on my hands on experience, I suspect my vintage Singers will outlast this one.

[@johndonovan6471]

Today we bought a Singer HD 4452 for my wife. Tomorrow we are returning it. While the machine is nice and came with a bunch of accessories including a walking foot and the machine was on sale for $169.99, it's going back. I agree that the color is so dark that you can't see anything and the light is so bright that it blinds you. My wife prefers her White 999 and the Singer 418 that was my Grandmother's to the new Singer HD4452. She wants a newer machine in white color, but not computerized.

[@thejasonofalltrades]

Sorry to hear you weren't happy with your HD. I haven't found the color or the light to be problematic on mine, but to each their own! I hope your wife finds a machine that suits her!

[@louparsons]

Well, glad to hear I'm not the only person who veers off course every once in a while, seemingly abandoning one pastime for another. As I've said in response to an earlier video in this series, this Singer HD may make it easier for someone to get their feet wet sewing DIY/MYOG stuff without spend wads of cash on a new Bernina, or chasing parts for a early 1970s Kenmore (my personal soft spot), nor dealing with the size, weight, specialization of industrial machines. And I've got four industrial machines jammed into a 540 sq/ft apartment, along with a Sailrite, a couple Kenmores, blah, blah. Thanks for an interesting series. YVR

[@marksmale827]

Replacement generic plastic gears are widely available for older Singers.

[@ethelryan257]

And are of enormously better quality than the junk Singer was using. Singer went down a very dark road after 1962 and this machine is paying for their bad reputation, still. I was shocked by how not-bad my neighbor's was.

[@marksmale827]

@@ethelryan257 I think their quality was still acceptable through the 1970s (not as good as earlier) but despite clever and innovative designs, really started to decline in the 1980s before they sold their sewing machine division to whoever.

[@backpacker3421]

I look at it as capability vs price point. If you are ONLY planning to hem pants and make minor repairs, then you want the cheapest decent machine you can find. If you plan to do DIY but not sew professionally, then the Singer HD or a comparable machine strikes an outstanding capability to price balance. It's not that much more expensive than a TON of far less capable machines, and to get something significantly more capable, you need to spend a LOT more. Which makes these a fantastic balance for the non-professional DIY sewer, for whom an expensive machine would be a waste of money unless their DIY hobby involved some very specific needs (maybe a cosplay enthusiast working with lots of heavier materials).

[@ethelryan257]

Or, you could by a pre 1962 Singer (pretty much any) and have a machine which can hem jeans or sew silk shirts with equal ease. I liked my neighbor's HD, same model as Jason reviewed. But it felt fragile. I suspect a serious thread tangle which I can resolve on my vintage machines with a razor blade would lead to this going out of time, breaking this that or the other cheap piece of plastic. And that's the real problem I have with this machine. Sooner or later something bad is going to happen. It always does. My vintage machines survive it with no worries, this one will not. Plastic always loses.

[@paulathomas4944]

Your conclusions seem to be in line with those of a number of sewing machine engineers whose videos I've watched - a capable domestic machine somewhat mislabelled by the "heavy duty" tag. Although I'm not in the market for such a machine (I have too many very capable machine already) I've really enjoyed the series so thanks for putting the time and effort into it.

[@marksmale827]

I still think "Heavy Duty" is a misnomer. It is no more heavy-duty than any older all-metal quality vintage machine. To me, heavy-duty suggest a heavy leather/heavy canvas machine (usually with a walking foot), which this simply is not.

[@SparkyOne549]

Same here, but What you’re describing is commercial or industrial machines which don’t need the term “ heavy duty”.

[@ethelryan257]

'Heavy Duty' means nothing. This particular machines is decent at sewing. We know how the all-metal machines have held up (perfectly). We know how the industrial Singers have held up (mine was worth every penny). It is reasonable to assume this machine is better made than the plastic junk Singer unleashed upon us after the early 1960's. That was quite intentional. Whether they will last long enough to be judged good value for the money is another question. Based on over 50 years sewing experience, a vintage all-metal Singer with an electronic speed control is the best choice.

[@MikkoRantalainen]

The heavy duty in this machine seems to refer to having all the wear parts in real metal. Many cheap machines have at least some plastic wear parts.

[@sheldoncooper6230]

Thanks for the ongoing review. So, I guess the singer HD gets the Bobbin paw stamp of approval?

[@thejasonofalltrades]

Yes it does!

[@Lapeerphoto]

Jason, You know I am a great supporter of yours, and have been since Colorado! I don't accept your excuses! Sell your boat, and fishing gear and get back to making sewing videos. 😁

[@Lapeerphoto]

I know you will accept this comment with all the sarcasm intended!! 🤣

[@thejasonofalltrades]

Oh of course! (Sorry for the delay in replying!)

[@jfweleber]

FYI - Singer HD machines typically ship with a 90/14 needle.

[@thejasonofalltrades]

I thought I would look to your channel for inspiration on how to do this better, and what do you know, you're just another in a long line of asshats who contribute nothing to the world around you, but complain about any tiny thing they don't like in a video that cost them nothing to watch. Maybe try not to be such a waste of oxygen.

[@debraclogston9379]

I still will use my heavy metal babes.

[@andriashevetz2888]

Play On!!!!!

[@bbrachman]

Even though you think this is a good starter machine, I am always leery of Singer. Been bought and sold several times. At this point, I question the quality of their manufacturing. I have a Bernina 1000 Special. Bought in the late 1990s. Never missed a beat. A mechanical machine. 7 stitches. All I ever needed. Still owned by the same family/company.

[@gmcxm211]

If it can't sew one layer of 1000D Cordura with MIL-W-17337, with any needle or thread, it's definitely not a "Heavy Duty" sewing machine. All they did was to add a little bigger motor (not much bigger). The average tote bag is made with 1000D Cordura and MIL-W-17337 webbing. It going to struggle with med to heavy weight denim for denim jackets.

[@colemine7008]

I rotate my hobbies too. I just can not be one dimensional.

[@lynnhufstetler3825]

I have had a Brother machine and was not happy with the plastic frame. It doesn’t stand up to the Singer in even the lightest cloth. Singers are just better made and less expensive.