My Kia e Niro Battery Degradation After 40,000 Miles: Is It Holding Up?

[@udtrev]

I would just like to thank you Jonathan for pointing out Car Scanner, now I can keep an eye on the battery for my MG5 as I wish, MANY thanks 👍👍

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Glad you found it usefull 👍👍

[@richardhaywoodh]

Note the 12v battery 14.8v is because the car is on and in Ready mode, the Main Traction battery is charging the 12v with the inverter. True 12v battery voltage will be when the car has been off for at least 15 minutes. I use a Bluetooth battery monitor so I can check the 12v even when the e-Niro is locked up.

[@zilspeed]

Yep, even an ICE car will typically show 14.8V across the 12v battery terminals with the engine running.

[@TheRoybeasley]

@@zilspeed Came here to say much the same - that 12V battery isn't "pumping out 14.8V". They can't do this - the maximum is around 12.8V (6 cells @ 2.13V per cell) with no load at all. What is actually being shown on Mr Porterfield's OBD software is that the car's DC-DC convertor is supplying 14.8V to the 12V battery to charge it. In view of this I have to wonder if the bloke understands any of the other information being shown to him...

[@Dirt-Diggler]

Came to say the same, basic battery knowledge 🤔

[@tonydanton6127]

12v battery will show 14v when you have the ignition on. Traction battery will be charging the 12v

[@trevorberridge6079]

Just to clarify: if there's a 3kwh buffer and the e-Niro is still reporting 100% SOH then it's lost less than 3kwh of capacity over 40,000 miles. For the battery to get down to 44.8kwh (70% SOH) the e-Niro would have to cover at least another 256,000 miles. I personally have driven 95,000 miles in 7 years and 8 months of owning my 24kwh Nissan Leaf. At that rate the e-Niro would have to drive for over 20 years to reach 70% SOH. So, there is NO issue with battery degradation. My 24kwh Leaf has 75% SOH so it will have covered 114,000 miles by the time it reaches 70% SOH. And that's 12 year-old tech with no thermal management in a small battery pack with a small buffer (1.6kwh). The degradation myth has been busted repeatedly. The naysayers are now clinging on to depreciation as their current anti-EV stance as more BS gets turned into fertiliser.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Brilliant Trevor 👏 thanks for your comments 👍

[@bigjml]

Depreciation is why I am buying some EVs for our family fleet. You have to wipe up the tears of the 1st owner. But whats not to likw. £70k Audi eTron for £20k at just under 3 years old. Nice. Will replace it in 3 or 4 years with another depreciated EV Obviously I won't buy an EV new at any point in the near future. Because depreciation has always been the biggest cost of owning a new car

[@sie4431]

What case scenario: 70% state of health isn't enough for someone and they sell the car to someone who doesn't mind. I only drive a few miles a day so even an old leaf is fine for that

[@martinwray7001]

No detectable loss of range in my 19 Kona at 105k miles on original battery. Delighted.

[@Kiltoonie]

Did you get a new battery recall in yours? I did!

[@martinwray7001]

@@Kiltoonie yes, just got the car back a couple of days ago. Now on battery number 2, but from a range perspective, number 1 was just as good.

[@ateeqn1985]

​@@martinwray7001so did you do 105k on 1st battery..which is now replaced?

[@martinwray7001]

@@ateeqn1985 yes 105349, to be exact.

[@garryellis3085]

Good thing about having a Tesla is that they replaced the crappy 12 volt lead acid battery with a long lasting 16 volt, light weight lithium battery. (Life time guarantee).

[@peterengland6153]

MG in Thailand for the MG4 give a life time warranty on the battery, electric drive unit, and electric power block. In NZ now it is a 10 year warranty for MG EV's.

[@Tim_Small]

Charge to near full, and then discharge to near empty... Then check maximum cell voltage deviation. Note any weak cells and keep an eye on them. To minimise battery stress, keep the state of charge between about 70% and 40% (if that doesn't inconvenience you - by all means go for wider states of charge on long distance trips etc.).

[@ateeqn1985]

My Kira Niro 2019 @110,000 Miles is also still 100% (measured by Kia dealership) 🎉

[@garysmith5025]

Ooh! Crawling around on that Orcadian slate 20mm clean gravel is in the same league as Lego!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Your tellin me ! , yes on a par with lego 😀

[@jm-ze3sf]

hyundai kona (same car under the skin) after 45,000miles and four years...one 12v battery failed(it looks like the terminal is slightly too large for the battery and you can twist it off when fully tightened...it as slightly eroded inside so worth checking ...the new battery is fine as I made the fit a bit tighter...) car still charges to 100% and showed a range of 337 miles on the gom last weekend when I went to London....and it did it too....

[@Dirt-Diggler]

This happens a lot, poor lead alloy shrinks over time, usually shows up in the colder weather

[@franklong6269]

That is superb battery life. I have been under the understanding that all batteries drop about 2-4% of battery capacity in the first 20,000 miles. Adding extra battery capacity is something that Tesla should look into.

[@austin2planks]

have you looked when fully charged? The BMS state of charge is less than 100%, which indicates perhaps how much top buffer is remaining. This seems to vary between about 95% and 97% on most cars I've seen data for. There will be a minimum top buffer allowed after which the SoH will have to drop. Kia have done a wonderful job on the BMS to protect the battery, mainly by keeping the charge speed down I guess!!!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Yes , many EV drivers complain about the charge speed on a rapid , but for me a 1 hour break after driving for 4 or 5 hours is welcome , and yes i too think a 'low' charge speed must help the battery's state of health 😉

[@Magic-Smoke]

2.6 psi is a bit low for tyres - you’ll get better mileage if you pump them up a bit 😂

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Yes , for long trips i check at inflate to 40psi all round.

[@keithshayle7027]

I have owned a Genesis Electrified G80 for a little over two years and have covered a bit under 9,300 miles (so its not my everyday car). At its first service in August apparently the battery capacity was at 99.4%, which given its capacity is 87.7 KWh with a usable 84 KWh, I should still be at 100% usable. In fact in the warmer weather recently if anything the total range is improving! As you say no question the Koreans know what they are doing! Ive heard much higher percentage drops on certain German brands, and generally quite a few faults for example with the Mercedes EQE, a rival for the E G80, yet few if any of the motoring publications make mention, preferring to concentrate on Tesla against the usual German competition! For me, after twenty years with Jaguars and seven years with a Maserati Ghibli Diesel (an excellent car!), i have to say the Genesis is the best car ive owned!

[@mdsf01]

Wonderful video! Love the geekiness and all the info you share. Cheers!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching and your comments, Mrs P despairs over my geekness , but others appreciate it 👍 😂

[@mdsf01]

@@JonathanPorterfield Keep up the excellent work! Oh and thank you for highlighting the OBD2 app. I'm revamping my OBD equipment in preparation for the arrival of my new Niro EV. :)

[@jamesp5301]

So do we think the SOH is accurate. I haven't run car scanner on mine. I have over 50 K and I think I'm still at 100% I've got my eye on a high mileage one at a nice price here locally. This SK Innovation battery is a beast

[@stephenclay6852]

Great to know Jonathan that the battery is good gives me confidence in my battery

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching and your comments Stephen 👍

[@robertpopek6063]

State of healt isn't the same as battery degradation. Björn Nyland, "Teslabjörn" and EV dabbler has a better test of battery degradation. Charge to 100%. Set the consumption and thetrip-meter to zero. The drive down the battery at modest speed to say 2%. After that you read the average consumption on the trip with the length of the trip. Multiply and corect for the last percentage. That gives you the content of available energy in the battery. Comare that number with the number when the car was new. Dived and you get hove mutch the battery has degradation since new.

[@graham5649]

I just ordered a obd2 reader to check my E-Niro, thanks again for this great info.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and watching, enjoy the stats 👍 😀

[@graham5649]

Fantastic video. 100% wow

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@fix-and-drive-diy-repairs]

Your kia look exactly like mine.

[@mickinmerton8053]

Very useful info. I have a Kia Soul, also 3 1/2 years old. I'll invest in the ODB dongle and the app. Thanks for the info.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching

[@01jvb]

Very useful Jonathan, thank you.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching 👍

[@michaelgoode9555]

Great video JP. Coincidentally I have just done some numbers on our almost 4 year old ID.3. The traction battery capacity is over 96% of the stated capacity when new. I'm very happy with that. The one caveat is that it has only covered 17,400 miles. I am confident that the traction battery will be good for the life of the car. Edit: I used the Car Scanner app too. 👍

[@Tim_Small]

You will minimise stress on the battery if you try and cycle it around the middle portion of its capacity. About 70% to 40% is a good bet for NMC chemistry cells.

[@michaelgoode9555]

​@@Tim_Small Exactly what I try to do as a matter of course Tim. When we got the car it was clear that the first owner had not been so nerdy and had driven it like they stole it and charged to 100% a few times. Capacity was calculated at around 92% at that time. Many folk don't like the ID.3 but we do and we are very happy with our 1st Edition. I suspect that we will keep it for many years. It just suits us.

[@GG-zp9lt]

Thanks JP 😊 I have had my 3 year old 4+ Niro since June 24 & it's the best car I have ever owned. I bought the OBD Reader a few weeks ago & the battery states 100% The last few days I get a warning on the dash saying "Inverter Coolant Low" but I've checked & it's at the max position. Noticed it happens either when I have the aircon on or heater on. I've heard that the coolant inside the battery can crystallise & cause a reduction or blockage in the coolant flow. Can this problem be repaired under warranty & have you come across this problem from other e-Niro owners. Love the videos, keep them coming 😊 GG

[@NigelWickenden]

Thanks for that Jonathan. Something I'll invest in.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching Nigel 👍

[@alanjenkinson7812]

It’s a good case to keep the car, rather than going for something new and fancy

[@boringsoftware2093]

wow that was interesting, Niro's BMS monitors EVERY CELL? excellent! :D and also by the looks of 3.4V per cell is it LiFePo4?

[@FancyaBevMate]

Ps I read yesterday that SAIC (MG) is releasing their 1st solid state bev early next year so I'm now thinking of keeping the Niro until kia releases their 1st SS bev before swapping over but may have to change to the EV5 before then if the Niro starts costing us too much in repairs. Cheers

[@phphph6022]

Interesting video Jonathan. Just tried the same on my ID3 and didn't get the rapid/AC charging fields come up. Don't understand why this is? Good to see my battery at 98% after 3 1/2 years and 13k miles. If only the rest of the car was this good....

[@C-L66]

Good stuff, I bought the dongle last week and eventually got it to connect to the app, yes loads of geeky information but what I was really interested in was number of charges, as I’m the 2nd owner and I was shocked, it had never been fast charged before I bought it at nearly 3 years old, I know that because I’ve done 6 and all of those were just to test charging apps, with only a total fast charging of 16 Kw. Yes temperature of the tyres how do they do that? Thanks

[@gordonmoore4356]

What brand / model scanner is that? PS my E Nero is now on 55k and dealer print out on recent service shows 100%. I love this car.

[@rudywawrinka8926]

Great video, can u also tell us how do u mantain your battery? I was going to buy Hyundai eV, but lately there are news about disadvantages of NMC compared to LFP, and the booming of Chinese eV. But after watching your video, and other's comments here, now I have more confidence with my decision to buy Korean eV.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Hi 👋 i charge to 100% if im using the car the next day on a long trip other than that i just fill to 80% , like to leave room in the e niros battery for any excess solar too. Even at 50% full , 150 miles is around a weeks driving locally for me.

[@rudywawrinka8926]

@@JonathanPorterfield thank you so much John for the tips

[@BobKirk50]

Can you tell me what Android Support OBDII OBD you used. Thanks

[@peterwalker6535]

Interesting video. Thanks. Can you suggest an obd2 scanner and app for a Niro EV please?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Any OBD2 dongel should work fine , and the app is shown in the video that works on the e niro.

[@peterwalker6535]

@@JonathanPorterfield Sorry to bother you again…. I have bought a TOPDON obd2 dongle. I can link it via Bluetooth to my iPhone and run the Carpal app. However, among the various diagnostic programmes I can run, it does NOT give a diagnostic option for the main drive battery only the 12v battery. Any ideas? Thanks.

[@antoniopalmero4063]

I would say that the car is pumping the 14.8v into the auxiliary battery , try checking the 12v in the morning before switching the car on .

[@txaliocat2239]

Thank you for the video, Jonathan! Which OBD are you using? I also have an e-Niro, almost 90.000 km now, and would like to try this. Thanks!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Any OBD 2 dongel will work

[@txaliocat2239]

@@JonathanPorterfield thanks

[@alanbrad3727]

Car is switched on that's why 12volt battery is reading 14.8 because the car is charging it😂 I believe 6 cells at 2.2 volts should be around 13.2 volts.

[@Dirt-Diggler]

12.8 is about the max a SLA battery will sit at, 12.9 when brand new.

[@gtek8021]

Will car scanner work on Polestar 2 if so which OBD plug in device should be used with this app? Thanks

[@kinross24]

JP, what obd dongle is that you used in combination with Car Scanner? Will it also work with my Ioniq electric 38?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Any OBD 2 dongel should work

[@kinross24]

@@JonathanPorterfield I’ve tried a couple already but car scanner didn’t like them. What make is yours?

[@dennisharvey4499]

@@JonathanPorterfield I've tried 3 different dongles with my friends 16 reg Zoe and none of them worked with the Torque app I use on my Hyundai Accent.

[@GregAnslow]

Hyundai Ioniq 38, 40k miles 96% SOH, 204mile range showing today.

[@alanbrad3727]

@@GregAnslow what year is your ioniQ? Mine is just over 4 years old with 73000 miles. Only issue has been the coolant but that's been fine for over a year now

[@GregAnslow]

@@alanbrad3727 its a 21 plate coolant recall has just been done funny enough as the refill coolant message started coming up

[@davidfieldhouse7722]

Is the timescale rather than miles that degrades a battery more I reckon

[@jalindell]

Just a pro tip, you cant check the V of the 12volt while the car is on because the car is charging the 12v you should check it with the car off, and or load test it with something that isn't the car to determine it's health. No 12v SLA battery is resting at 14.8-14.9v.

[@jalindell]

Also I use the same app to assess the actual traction battery health, my tip is to check at full charge, make sure all cell V are within ~.02v of each other, and check at low SoC same thing, all V should be within ~.02. Have a friend help with the last check, as it involves looking at moving numbers, put the car in sport mode, and get the AC or heat blasting, and drive on the highway at 70+ mph, and have someone check the cell voltages under load, and make sure they are again within ~.02v any lower or higher that keep popping up under load may be cells to keep an eye on. You can also do this when DCFCing the car at 70+kw and they should again be very close to each other ~.02v. you can do better with the paid version of the app, making a dashboard for all the cells or getting a more advanced app for battery health monitoring.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Oh rubbish, I made this exact video with the help of my son a couple of days ago and scheduled it to go live tomorrow morning. Might be changing that plan now! 🤔

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Opps, sorry , im sure our videos will be different 😉

[@energitrimmeren]

Please note that the 12V battery is charging, due to you having The Car “on”. And any charging voltage above 13,85 V is actually a slow killer of the 12 V battery, if you check the producers of Led Acid batteries, and users experience with shorter lifetimes. This is not only a KIA/Hyundai issue, but concerns EV brands.

[@Timstravels01]

Very interesting indeed.

[@enoserwaa]

Where can I get the OBD scanner? Thanks.

[@patrickh7368]

What OBD dongle do I need to work with car scan..? I have the 28Kwh Ioniq, just serviced at 6 years old and 47,000 miles, they tell me everything is “good” with batteries, I have an accessory usb plug with readout for dash camera, at switching on the very first read is 12.2V until systems come online then that reads 14.4V as traction battery looks after the 12V system… 😊

[@KiteTurbine]

Anyone know where to get an OBD2 which will reliably work with LEAF SPY? My last one was pure rubbish

[@Youtubeuseritis]

Overall recommended?

[@Daytona2]

Thanks Jonathan. Not using the extremes of the battery should be standard practice. Which manufacturers don't do this ?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Nissan have small buffers and no thermal management ( in the leaf ) and old battery chemistry ,so degradation can be higher than kia / Hyundai

[@Tim_Small]

I'm guessing 100% state of health means that it's still able to deliver the original battery spec (64 kWh or whatever). My E Niro has 91000 miles on it and still shows 100% state of health, whilst a friend's (also 20 reg, and same spec) with approx a third of the miles on it has 97% state of health...

[@rudywawrinka8926]

Great, what is the secret? Is there any specific treatment to ur battery? Like, never charge above 80% etc...

[@wcoenen]

The "state of health" seems to be stuck at 100% on many Kia's, I don't think it is really telling you anything. There should be at least a little bit of degradation after 40,000 miles, so that's a strong hint that "100%" is not correct. I think that to know the real battery health, you have to charge to 100% and then look in car scanner at "remaining energy".

[@iangarethreeves]

Do you ever use this scanner when buying used cars?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Years ago i did when buying Leaf , now it's not really necessary, especially when the likes of Kia have 8 year warranty on the battery ( or 100k miles)

[@alanbellwood2229]

Which obd do you use with the app?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Its one ive had for years , any OBD2 dongle will work.

[@DerekHasted]

@@JonathanPorterfield That's not what other comments here are saying....

[@xperyskop2475]

Nissan Leaf batteries are shambles compared to KIA. I have 7 years old Leaf with 70k miles and battery just below 70% .

[@uavr1286]

it depends on lots of factors including ambient temperatures, rapid charging, how deep it's discharged, how much time left at high or low charge states, etc. You also have to consider that the Leaf is older tech. My 2015 Leaf has done 140k miles and it's on 70% SOH. Not bad for the first mass market electric car. I am a bit doubtful about the accuracy of the SOH on the e-niro given everyone here is saying theirs says 100% with widely varying mileages!

[@davidlewis4399]

The real question is how much value has it lost and are you looking forward to paying the Road Fund licence and pay per mile.

[@toyotaprius79]

LG Chem cells and any cells that's charged over 4.1v really aren't proving themselves in longevity

[@FancyaBevMate]

Not going to check mine until 150,000 miles another KZbinr I know has like mine has a 1st edition and is currently around 250,000 miles so mine on 112,000 is way off his so yours is a baby in comparison 😂😂😂 Cheers

[@xperyskop2475]

I have 7 years old nissan leaf with 70k on clock, and battery is below 70% usable but not what I was hoping for

[@FancyaBevMate]

@@xperyskop2475 that’s really bad mate my 2018 leaf had 93k miles and had 94.8 SOH when it was four years old