My New Sourdough Steamer Pod is Making my Loaves Explode!

[@peterdavis2233]

Adding steam as you've described seems like an excellent way to get the right amount to enhance oven spring. I used to bake my loaves in a home oven with a pan of boiling water on the bottom rack as a way to add steam to the first 20 minutes. Worked great. But after a few months, my oven actually began to develop rust. After that, I switched back to dutch ovens and roaster lids.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Thanks Peter. Excess steam can definitely do some damage, especially to adjacent drawer fronts! I like covering my loaves but for larger or multiple loaves this usually a tidy way to do it. Appreciate your comment, cheers

[@barrychambers4047]

About 3 years ago someone on another youtube channel claimed their home oven had buckled from all the steam.

[@CulinaryExploration]

That would to surprise me matey! Hope all is well with you and your family Barry. Have a great Christmas and New Year :)

[@ferluiz69]

Great idea. Thanks for sharing. One question, though, do you turn oven blower on ? In my oven, when blower is on, steam just disappears too quickly.

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@ferluiz69I don't use the fan function when Im baking sourdough

[@brianphillips1864]

I am a novice bread baker using a high moisture fridge stored dough method from a book. It has me using a steam tray so your video was extremely educational. My results are great for a newb but I dont always know why. The steam talk... precious. Thank you.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers, bud. Keep me posted if you give it a whirl :)

[@dorsetdumpling5387]

I got similar results by putting a big Pyrex bowl over the loaf when it went in the oven on a ceramic tile.

[@pappythomas1804]

Very interested in following your exploration of a micro-bakery. Currently I'm selling 4 loaves of San Francisco-style sourdough a day - limited by my time and equipment. Great videos! Thanks!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Oh wow, sounds like you are doing very well with your project. Equipment, space and time will be the major constraints when trying to run a micro bakery from home. Especially if you have a busy schedule or another job. Luckily this compliments what I do already. I think I’ll confine baking to one day per week when I kick off. Really good to have you following along!

[@mattymattffs]

One of my neighbours does about a dozen loaves and other goodies via two ovens every few days. Crazy.

[@pappythomas1804]

I have my eyes open for another oven but that starts to defeat the "micro" in micro-bakery!

[@mattymattffs]

@@pappythomas1804 I'm in North America. Two ovens is becoming the norm in new builds

[@Shimmyausmwohnzimmer]

glad i am subscribed to your newsletter!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Awesome! I'm pleased you are enjoying the sourdough content :)

[@chrissiewindsor]

Fascinating, as usual. I haven’t been baking sourdough for a while now, thanks to crippling arthritis in my hands, but I never miss your videos, cos you make science sound human for those of us whose brothers got the maths gene, whilst I loved literature. It made us a fab quiz team though, we’re both musical, I’m a rugby league fanatic and cook/baker, & Al has an amazing sports knowledge (gambler!) He’d never try baking a loaf, but loves to critique mine. He watches your videos too. That bread looks so delicious I’m drooling! Please don’t stop teaching us!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey Chrissie! Thanks for your comment and thanks to you and you and Al for your support! Sorry to hear about your arthritis. I haven’t seen a game of rugby in years! I hope you keep following along and if you ever need anything, you know where I am. Take care 😀

[@kriskent8090]

I`m so trying this in my oven. Been trying to get a micro bakery running more efficiently without going to a full size deck oven just yet. Thanks for the tips.

[@CulinaryExploration]

No worries Kris. Will you keep me posted on how you get on?

[@sewstr8t]

I am learning so much from your videos. What kind of stone are you using in your oven. Doesn't look like anything I have seen here in the USA.

[@stevealexander8010]

Love your vid - inspiring - [hope this isn't a dblpost] I thought about your 'steamer pod' method and, .. it's quite flawed. Most ppl never think deeply about how water boils, the phase transition, so they have some incorrect ideas. Boiling is merely the temp at which the evaporation pressure reaches atmospheric pressure! During evaporation (or boiling) the more energetic molecules escape leaving the cooler/less-energetic molecules behind. Atmospheric pressure: Your kitchen atmo might be 850 milllibars(mb) in Denver where water boils ~95C, or 1080 mb in a calm day in Siberia where water boils at

[@stevealexander8010]

Addendum - For a boiling pod - I've found that a double-wall insulated coffee mug has too much insulation and barely boils, however a ceramic mug or a tempered glass measuring cup works quite nicely.

[@ianglenn2821]

2:23 it might not be necessary to increase the thermal inertia, maybe you could just heat the water more before adding it, maybe it's fine, but I think you have to be really careful what you use. Not all "stainless steel" is just plain metal. Especially if it goes through a carving process of some kind, they apply coatings and grease to everything, powders after they finish, none of it is food safe, or meant to be heated, and it all gets stuck in the screw threads. Even after a few bakes, I'm not sure it would all come off.

[@DAV_72-75]

so good

[@EdTraut]

Thanks!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Thanks Ed, much appreciated. Have a good Christmas bud.

[@EdTraut]

@@CulinaryExploration Hi. I’m very curious as I also have a stone mill for flour and tried making sourdough with home milled flour even after sifting did not get a great rise. Any input?

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@EdTrautWhat mesh sieve are you using? If I use a 60 mesh sieve I get about an 82% extraction rate. That gives me pretty good results. I found that the the hydration needs adjusting in comparison to the same formula using store bought flour. I'm using hard spring wheat with high protein.

[@Tiffany-l2c]

Every time I double my recipe or anyone’s recipe it never comes out. Always flat. Whenever I do a single loaf it comes out perfect. Any idea why? I haven’t seen anyone discuss this and I don’t know why. You do the best sourdough videos! Thank you!

[@yamahargxtt]

When you do a double loaf it takes 1.5x longer to cook plus it may be too heavy to hold its shape. Do what works for you. Most loaves are 700g to 1.1kg and anything over that needs to be a different shape to help with surface area to cook faster.

[@johndudash2579]

You can double the recipe, just make 2 loaves

[@Lovelybellbakes]

Larger batches proof much faster. It sounds like you’re overproofing your loaves when you double the batch.

[@texasmoby]

I’ve reached out to you a couple of times now, but will try again. I have a San Francisco/Scotland hybrid starter fed on 16% Canadian white flour and Scottish spring water (collected daily) on a 1:1:1 ratio. It triples in size in 1 hour 55 minutes. It’s playing havoc with my baking (making and shaping) routine and I need your advice. How do I slow it down? Is there anything I can do to help predict the end of bulking? I don’t want to change too much as the sourness is superb and the oven spring phenomenal. Any help appreciated - best wishes from Oban - Ian

[@johnbroadbent7414]

Hi Ian, I am a Phil's Sourdough Unchained Community member, and can finally make a decent sourdough loaf! Based in Sydney and coming out of winter, my starter has been a difficult 'child' too, and in the last 2 weeks with some very warm weather, it has been far more active! As I have an iPhone I used a free App, OSnap, to do some custom time-lapse videos, overnight, and I've seen quite a shift in its behaviour. A tripling in size in such a short time is very unusual, and following Phil's process, I feed my starter before bed then make a loaf in the morning. With my time-lapse, in Winter my starter took some 14 hours to reach peak expansion (double size), now in early summer (and my kitchen around 22-25DegC) it's taking about 8 hrs and almost tripling. Phil starts with around 10-20g of left-over starter, adds 60-70g of water and the same quantity of flour (so 1:1) the night before baking. I've used his sourdough calculator for a slightly lower hydration (my flour isn't as thirsty) and now get good repeatability for consistent loaves. I've also been playing with the Moka Pot and having recently moved house, my oven has gone from electric to gas, and I'm not seeing as much darkening of the crust, so experimenting on improving that, maybe with reduced steam. For the cost of Phil's monthly subscription, if you're serious about learning some good practice re sourdough baking, I can't recommend it highly enough as it's saved me many loaves (I've given up on previous occasions!), educated me on what to look for, and saved me a heap of frustration!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Ηi Ian, wow - for a ratio of 1:1:1 two hours is super fast. Assuming the ambient temp is normal it's going to be down to the flour you are using or possibly the spring water. If I was in your position I would create a couple of small off-shoot starters for testing purposes. In the first I'd switch the water to straight up tap or filtered water but keep the existing flour. In the second I'd test a different flour but keep using the spring water. I'd keep the starters going for at least several days and assess the results. Split testing will give you a very good idea of which component is responsible for such quick fermentation. I hope this helps, Phil

[@jessicaeiss2541]

hey there.... living in NY, your starter is going through that food too fast, so switch to a 1:5:5 ratio, and it will take longer for all of the food to be consumed... technically you could start with a 1:3:3 or 1:4:4 ratio.... try each feeding ratio, see how long it takes to peak, and what will work for your baking schedule.

[@stevealexander8010]

Huh - do the lacto's and yeast actually display national flags ? B/c an a micro-bio-vexillologist I have a need to examine the actual flags, and compare these to human flags of various eras. I look forward to your confirming evidence.

[@stevesheffield45]

Beautiful loaf, love the color especially. Going to try your pot method asap. As to rise, in your experience how much is this affected by shaping? Cheers and thank you for sharing.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey Steve, shaping plays a big part in spring but fermenting and proofing the dough correctly is at the top of my list.

[@stevesheffield45]

Thank you for your reply. Do you have a link to the moka pot you use?@@CulinaryExploration

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@stevesheffield45 Hey Steve, Here's the link to the one I use but if I were you I'd search for a cheaper model. I already had mine. amzn.to/41zvTE2

[@charlesscaife4266]

Physics was so badly taught at my Grammar school that almost all of it escaped me. You say that the "thermal mass" increases in your Mocha pot by adding more metal. In the twenty minutes that you keep steaming your loaf, does the additional metal produce more or less steam, or is the steam produced more consistent? Have loved the videos to date. Thank-you. Happy New Year.

[@stevealexander8010]

Good, honest question; and you think very well, despite the poor intro to thermo that we share. "thermal mass" is a sort of 'street' term for "heat capacity". It answers the question "how much energy does it take to raise the temp of this "*@#$' by one degree''. The problem with CE's reasoning is that he PRESUMES (wrongly) that his steamer pot changes in temperature over time when it does not. Water retains the same physical characteristics and boils at 100C at atmospheric pressure EVERY TIME. [we'll exclude some rare corner cases]. The interior of the moka pot reads 100C (ex pressure variations) every time. The interior water converts to gas/vapor/steam and then immediately re-condenses-on and heats anything cooler than 100C. The liquid-water remains at 100C at 1atm always. The steam generated comes off the moka pot at 100C also !! Tho' in a bread over it will rise toward the oven temp (say 230C), and expand So a better mental model is that when we add thermal energy to the pot with water (or a boiling stove-to pot) we DON'T increase the temperature at all; instead we increase the rate of evaporation - the rate that steam escapes. 'CE' is simple wrong wrt thermo. He could weld an Abrams tank to his moka pot, and (extra conduction, convention & radiation ignored) it doesn't change the rate of steam vapor at all.

[@neilbelcher]

With the help of this channel I’ve been successfully baking sourdough for a while now. One problem I do have is wild fermentation and big holes in my loaf. I don’t really understand why or how to solve it. Any ideas anyone?

[@peterdavis2233]

You get such excellent oven spring. Your loaves look like rugby balls. Ideal. Mine tend to be a bit flatter, though well proofed, from what I can tell. However, my kitchen temperature can vary from 16˚C to 26˚C, depending on the time of year. How do you account for wide variations in ambient temperature when baking? How do you alter your times and percentages when it's only 16˚C in the kitchen as opposed to when it's 26˚C? Can you get the same rugby ball results? Thanks so much for your videos! Great help!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey again Peter. Temperature is a tricky variable to deal with. It takes practice. I used to struggle more with lower temperatures. I was forever under fermenting and/or proofing my dough. After quite a few loaves now I can get pretty good results even when factoring temperature fluctuations. But I have my fair share of disasters too! I have converted a fridge into a temperature controlled proofer which really helps with consistency but I still ferment at ambient temp too. I ended up investing in a pH meter to help me understand the fermentation process. It was a great help and I barely ever touch it now. Keep going, keep practicing and try hard to understand how the dough is behaving. (I know that’s easier said than done). Happy baking.

[@traceyheltzinger3267]

I have a steam Proofing oven !

[@williammarshall2407]

It would be great if you did an upload with a steam oven. I notice you say a member tested the temperature using one, but I can never get it to work as well as my regular over with water and misting. Perhaps I'm leaving the steam on too long, perhaps venting it isn't removing enough water, perhaps the reservoir at the bottom keeps the oven cavity a bit too moist after venting. I don't know, but it sounds like someone else has figured it out.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Bryan (our community member) bakes some fantastic loaves in his oven using the built in steam function. I know that he’s using the medium steam setting (2/3) and vents the oven completely after around 20 mins. I think every oven is different and experimenting will be key in understanding what works best. All my best, Phil

[@guze9557]

Hi Philip, thanks for you tutorial. I have been in touch with regards to using the above method. I use a tea/coffee pot with teaspoons and it's lid to regulate the amount of steam released. And have good success rate. If you wish to see my set up feel free to get in touch. Joe from Liverpool...

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey Joe! How’s it going buddy? I’m always interested, do you want to ping me an email

[@guze9557]

Sure Philip, I just took a few photos and will send via gmail...

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@guze9557cheers Joe!

[@SolCanyonKitchenWisdom]

I’ve tried several times to give up my heavy cast-iron pot for the steam set up that many do in the oven, but it never works. I recently found out from a very experienced baker that setting up a gas oven with steam doesn’t work so well because there’s vent where the steam goes out too easily. I guess only gas ovens have this vent. I’m curious if your oven is electric or gas? I have baked some baguettes in my gas oven with steam, but still the color of the crust and the texture is not right in comparison to when I bake in a cast-iron vessel. I’m just curious if you heard about this issue with gas ovens and steam. At least I discovered this information because it was driving me crazy because I got the same result every time no matter how I set it up with steam. It was just a failure in comparison to the I bake in a cast-iron Dutch oven that have a big ear and an open crumb and a beautiful crust. I couldn’t come near that with the steam in the gas oven. Curious of your thoughts. Thank you and good luck on your micro bakery adventure.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey there, I don't have a gas oven but have heard that they are designed to vent. You could try a baking stone and a large pot. One of our members has just found a huge turkey roaster lid and can fit two batards under it at the same time. I'd suggest experimenting with different solutions to cover your dough. All my best, Phil

[@jessekramer3777]

What size moka pot ?

[@tomtaylor6163]

That thing looks like the ones used to make canna butter

[@natashad1272]

Do you have a link to the pot you put on top of the loaf (near the start of your video), please? Or a suggestion of a good size to look out for? I have a small dutch oven but it's not big enough to make batardes!

[@CulinaryExploration]

The pot I use came free with my oven and I haven't been able to find anything similar. One of community members has just tracked down a turkey roaster/lid in thrifty store which fits two batards under it. So keeping an eye on those stores could be a winner. Brod and Taylor has just released a cloche for baking sourdough, I think it's around 100$. Sorry I cam't help more with this one.

[@natashad1272]

​@@CulinaryExplorationno worries, appreciate the reply! I'm in the UK so I'll keep a look out in charity shops perhaps! I was hoping I might be able to find something on Amazon UK if I know what to search for 😅

[@DANVIIL]

How did you decide how much water to use to optimize the spring and crust? Is there a formula?

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@DANVIILI simply tested different amounts. 40-50g seems to be the sweet spot for my oven and setup

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@natashad1272Im away this weekend but when I get back on Monday Ill measure my pot and see if I can find something similar on Amazon UK to give you starting point at least. How does that sound?

[@dariocugia1938]

Nobody has ever made coffee bread before😂

[@CulinaryExploration]

LOL - there's always first ;)

[@kerryrobertson5672]

They have!

[@dariocugia1938]

@@kerryrobertson5672 incredible!! Actually, , now that I think about it, it would be perfect for breakfast

[@DisgruntledPigumon]

Our oven has a steam option. I think it’s time to try it with bread!

[@feliksdz4208]

why don't you explain that home bakers watching this just need to use a dutch oven? I spray the loaf with a mister after scoring it and just before closing it with the lid, simple bake in preheated oven with preheated dutch oven for 25-30 at 450F and remove lid for the next 10-15

[@hebaalhawsaui7372]

I tried to make sourdough bread and never worked 😢 don’t know what’s the issue. May God help me to find the best recipe and ingredients.

[@onlooker4564]

Just put a couple of ice cubes under each cover...

[@Paul-mn8ql]

You really love the experiments eh? Micro bakery = steam oven. You’ll get there eventually ‘cause it’ll be too much pain in the butt.

[@ballardfx1140]

A spray bottle every 5 mins works just the same!

[@williwilson6536]

Hmm... and opening an oven door for @ 2-3 seconds lowers the temp by as much as 15-20°f.

[@ballardfx1140]

@@williwilson6536 I don’t care what you think, I’ve been doing this for years. There’s been talk of a lot of people getting more spring at the end when they leave the door open anyways. I only crack it for two seconds.

[@williwilson6536]

@ballardfx1140 good grief! My response wasn't intended to pass you off. My response had NOTHING to do with how I feel. I just responded to provide some information. Hope you start feeling better dude. Wow!

[@ballardfx1140]

@@williwilson6536 but your information is misleading to how easy it is.