My Response to Dogen's Comment About My Video

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[@ThatJapaneseManYuta]

Learn Japanese with Yuta: bit.ly/3DHun6S

[@name3583]

Yuta, is Japanese language similar to Hindi/Urdu?

[@TheOtakuDude]

@@name3583 No.

[@Frostbitten.]

@@name3583 there's some interesting overlap with Tamil

[@penpeen2185]

@@name3583 Hmpf baka question

[@jbl9552]

I can easily detect an accent from Dogen. His enunciation is a bit awkward.

[@viniciuskenji4445]

A discussion between an American speaking Japanese and a Japanese speaking English. What a time to be alive.

[@max89109]

lmao 😂😂

[@hontouhahitorikiri]

Man, I love the way they "roast" each other without being offensive. The world would be a better place if there were more Yuta-sans and Dogen-sans.

[@joshhamester]

Passive-aggression yes. Try the working world. It's very much like this already.

[@youtubeaccountone]

sans

[@Fx_Explains]

Dog-sans?

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

@@joshhamester World is plenty of passive-aggression. Although Yuta and Dogen were definitely not being passive aggressive. It isn't even roasting. It's just a bit of a mutual joke at best.

[@w花b]

@@Fx_Explains it's plural ffs. You clearly know what they mean

[@DarkElfofVulcan]

When dealing with Dogen, you have to assume he 1. Will overpraise everyone else 2. Will ensure he is the butt of the joke 3. Will ensure there is a joke. So, I don't think he was really putting down his own abilities, so much as just doing his usual routine.

[@junye4963]

True

[@viljamtheninja]

This is just a guess on my part, but I've always felt like Dogen's "stiffness" in speaking is somewhat intentional, like he speaks unnaturally slowly in order to enunciate properly, especially in his educational videos. Some of the best language teachers I've had do a similar thing. But it may very well also be that I'm thinking about something else and don't really have a good enough Japanese ear to recognize the stiffness that Yuta is talking about. Either way, it's fun to see this friendly banter between the guys.

[@oban2259]

I'm not sure, but maybe because he spent a lot of time studying words separately to master their pitch accent which lead to pronouncing sentences with "exaggerated" pauses to the native ear, I think if he tried to speak faster without paying attention to pitch accents it would sound smoother but not necessarily correct. This is just a guess on my part too. Lol.

[@stvsueoka1]

Yea sure 😆

[@TheDamianvain17]

@@oban2259 Dogen has also said in a video long ago, he intentionally speaks pitch perfect on purpose and it takes a long time to film his videos because of it. When he speaks Japanese in interviews, it is very different and not stiff at all. I don't remember which video it was but it was a couple of years ago.

[@nimeobless]

Yeah, I think what are you mention is a "colloquial" speech, munching sounds "on the fly" - it is actually should happen before you speak next word (in every language, not just English). I think Yutasan understand the concept, since the same "skill" in his Japanese is top notch, absolutely smooth colloquial speech (even far too fast for understanding for an average Japanese student). But it is extremely hard to replicate if you know 3 or more languages (Language teachers tend to learn more than 2, once you fluent in 2 - you become addictive usually and start learning a new one ;)). I think you can achieve it with only 2 languages, when you speak both of them at the same time all the time. Like without "alright now let's switch to English". Imagine daily conversations in a crowd with English-speaker and your native-speaker at the same time. When you add a third or more languages I think it becomes near impossible to do, your brain and mouth-muscles will stumble here and there for sure (especially if we are talking about languages from a different "sound" group).

[@urphakeandgey6308]

I'm half Japanese, but mostly grew up in the USA so take what I say with a grain of salt. I can hear the "stiffness" in Dogen's speech, but it's not bad. It's almost like he speaks too perfectly. It would be something like always perfectly saying "I am going to go to the bathroom" instead of using a more natural flow like "I'm gonna go to the bathroom."

[@reflex9238]

Yuta does make a good point about native speakers here. I myself am bilingual, I speak both English and Spanish. However because I learned Spanish first, and spoke it for a few years I’m considered a Native Spanish speaker. However my Spanish isn’t as good as your average native Spanish speaker, since I never learned much Spanish growing up, writing that is. So I never got to expand my vocabulary when it came to talking with other people. So typically my Spanish can come off as that of a non native speaker to other native speakers. Great video on Yuta’s end.

[@isaac4273]

You better improve it, in almost every Hispanic country you will be made fun of if you can't speak it properly, are you Spanish, Mexican, Argentine...? What's your background?

[@rudolfaerofare2683]

Oh man, I know that feeling. Native Afrikaans with English as a second language, but my Afrikaans has been getting progressively worse for years and my English better. So as such, my Afrikaans ability is not 'native'.

[@reflex9238]

@@isaac4273 I was born in the US, and my parents are both from peru.

[@isaac4273]

@@reflex9238 cool! Well, just remember that avocado is "aguacate" in Spanish

[@reflex9238]

@@isaac4273 I know they call it palta in Peru. I grew up in a Spanish community with lots of different types of Hispanics. So I know how to communicate in what i can describe as, standard Spanish in the community.

[@J-W_Grimbeek]

英語すごく上手ですね、ゆうたさん

[@baronvonbeandip]

rip

[@michaelrenper796]

In Japanese, in this context, this is an insult! PS: As some people don't get the joke on the joke. I will explain it for the casual reader. At the end of the video, Yuta-san is inviting to call his English "Jouzu", exactly because it would normally be not proper to invite such compliments in Japanese society. Jan-Willems comment can be seen as a joking reply, because he uses inappropriate register/politeness level. The wording 英語すごく上手ですね、ゆうたさん would be appropriate towards children, somebody of lower social status or between women, but not between men of equal social status. From a coworker I would expect/say something like 英語すごいよ。英語上手だ。 PSS: As Yuta has another old video I think where he explains how inappropriate use of register in Japanese is used to express insults.

[@Bianca_Toeps]

@@michaelrenper796 Tell me you didn't watch until the end, without telling me you didn't watch until the end.

[@michaelrenper796]

@@Bianca_Toeps Stating a fact for the benefit of the casual visitor to this prominent comment? Does it somehow become more or less true after watching the video?

[@Yutaro-Yoshii]

@@michaelrenper796 Yes, this can come across as judging, and asserting that you also know the subject in question well enough to judge him. Depending on the context, it's basically the same as saying "I'm better than you".

[@TokyoTigger]

Even Native Speakers who grew up immersed in a language and studied it in school can experience fluctuating skill levels after an extended time of not regularly using the language. I'm a US American who grew up in Japan, learning to speak at the age of 4, attended public Japanese schools and used it continuously until moving back to the States in my mid teens. Japanese people could not tell I wasn't Japanese when speaking on the phone, and I passed the highest level of the JLPT exam with a good score. For a long time, I felt more comfortable speaking Japanese than I did English (which I spoke at home with my parents, and learned early academic English skills from my mother). Yet, having lived in the US for over 20 years now and with few opportunities to have conversations in Japanese, I find myself frustratingly rusty in my vocabulary recall and general ease of constructing sentences in spite of pronunciation and grammar still being fully intuitive. I read Japanese books (prose and manga), listen to Japanese music, watch anime, and type in Japanese to my Japanese friends on Facebook, but it's truly not the same as real-time conversation and uses totally different skills.

[@1983simi]

it's absolutely natural. any skill not constantly honed - including your native language - can get rusty. I've lived in my home country Germany until I was 31, but now have been living in India - where I mostly talk English in day to day life and some Hindi - for almost a decade. Whenever visiting back home it takes me a week until I feel comfortable in German language structure again. It's my native language, but now I find myself peppering it with English or even Hindi phrases that just seem to bring accross a point more quickly and accurately and finding the German equivalent takes a lot of effort. It's frustrating, because I used to speak a very high level of German once due to the fact that I used to just read a lot. I'm also trying to keep my native language a bit alive by reading and listening to German news, but without daily interaction, it just takes a backseat. Your brain will keep whatever it needs more frequently and more spontaneously on a more instant recall priority. Good news is, that doesn't mean your prior language skill is completely gone, it just shifted from active to passive competency from where it can migrate back to active more easily again if you end up needing to use it more again. language skills - even for your native - are never fixed, they always evolve.

[@esquiro_cody]

"...Hen-...Japanese Manga with complex storylines..." - Yuta-san, this had me laughing very hard all by myself looking like a crazy person!

[@TonnieD024]

Same here lmao

[@esquiro_cody]

@@TonnieD024 guitar buddies :)

[@LuisGuzman007]

Same

[@mys31f70]

so true

[@Chia_Mochia]

I honestly missed it the first time LMAO

[@Heylon1313]

I love the recurring jokes in this community, be it 上手 or "they can only do what they can do"

[@fexlion]

Uete moment

[@republicadominicana8589]

what is the opposite of jouzo

[@MrNikolidas]

@@republicadominicana8589 下手 "Heta"

[@EriniusT]

What's "they can only do what they can do" from/mean?

[@w花b]

@@MrNikolidas more like hater

[@vivvy_0]

"he has been reading a lot of hen.. japanese manga" oof xD

[@porsheawilliams6039]

LOL I thought I was the only person who heard that haha. I had to scroll down way too far to find a comment on this

[@Nandinandito]

He's not wrong either lmao

[@arizlunastroir96]

I love how these two incorporate their jokes into their videos that I almost completely forget for a second that they weren't actually being serious with some of their points given 😅

[@miriammanolov9135]

It's the same thing with the Arabic language. I speak the Iraqi Arabic, but when I encounter an Egyptian person, I try to speak using their dialect because mine is hard to follow, and usually they would ask me if I'm either half Egyptian or an Egyptian born in USA because they can still detect a non-native Egyptian dialect in my conversation. When I speak my northern Iraqi Arabic dialect and switch to the most common one, I do sound awkward. Since I studied both English and Spanish at the same time in Iraq, my accent got lost in the middle and most people cannot figure out my ethnicity. I think it is fun and makes you unique and I never get offended by people questioning my ethnicity based on my accent.

[@TheBlueGoldenHawk]

I love how Dogen's whole video was just a long buildup to the 日本語上手 (nihongo jouzu) meme joke lol

[@masterspark9880]

can you please explain that to me? Is it bad to be told 日本語上手？

[@TheBlueGoldenHawk]

@@masterspark9880 I think it depends of the person, but Japanese people will praise many things without truly meaning it, and the joke is that if a native speaker tells you 日本語上手, then you are not fluent yet because they would just speak with you naturally instead of praising your Japanese ability. However, don’t worry, it’s a joke/meme, and I think some may actually mean it if they say it to you

[@eryalmario5299]

日本後上手 ははは

[@village_mayor]

As a bilingual living in a western country, my Cantonese will always never as good as someone from HK because I don't get to speak it every day. So even though people say my Canto is natural (lived in HK when I was young), there will always be words or little nuances that results in an accent. And that's okay because I am blessed I can speak two languages, even if the second language is a little rusty. People shouldn't judge one another on their accent because everyone has linguistic capabilities based on what language they were taught as a child. In fact, I am impressed if a gaijin can speak some Canto for example, because the way you curl your tongue or subtle intonations are very difficult to master.

[@TheKewlPerson]

Can't wait to hear Dogen's response to this video

[@shuichiREI-vw6ed]

and after that "can't wait to hear yuta react dogen's response"

[@PizzaCome]

We don't need to wait because he is good. 🤣

[@suzannegomes9737]

Great point on speaking a language natively but not perfectly. I grew up in Canada but spoke Portuguese with my grandparents. My Portuguese accent is definitely native level but my vocabulary is definitely not. So when I went to Portugal and spoke with staff at stores and restaurants, they’d be totally confused when I couldn’t understand something, because I sound like I SHOULD understand.

[@yuko604]

Same. My Japanese situation is the same as your Portuguese. My vocabulary is limited to range of vocab used by my parents and their friends here in Canada. So it's the vocab they most commonly use everyday in a casual setting. It's also generational since they don't use the latest vocab younger age groups use in Japan.

[@suzannegomes9737]

@@yuko604 oh yeah! Good point… slang and also swearing are not something you get that much from parents and grandparents.

[@kaihocompany]

@@yuko604 You also have the generational politeness that comes with it. Especially in Japanese where your vocab is so different when addressing your elders. I can't imagine talking to my friends the way I talk to my grandparents... :)

[@derpenstein713]

Yuta, I'm glad you acknowledged the joke. I thought it was hilarious but mostly because I felt like his entire intention behind making video was just to make that single joke. I would really be interested in seeing you both do a video or stream together!

[@minitokki]

You cannot judge a language skill ONLY by its native pronunciation, I can see it in a daily basis here in France. Some have a lot more vocabulary than other and some makes grammar mistakes even if they sound perfectly native.

[@Pranav_Bhamidipati]

Natives almost always make grammatical errors. It's because they don't care about being correct. They just need to get their point across. When you learn a new language, that level of comfort eludes you. You're always conscious about the correctness and appropriateness.

[@w花b]

J'avou ke le fransé es trè difisil. Bon et sinon frérot, bien ou bien?

[@minitokki]

@@w花b Tranquille et toi ?

[@wnterbird2976]

Well true but in this context they all had perfect grammar so he didnt comment on the grammar.

[@goyam2981]

I have friends who majored in Japanese in university and won Japanese Government scholarships to study in post-graduate levels in Japan. One has a PhD with dissertation about Japanese literature during the Heian period which is very old. Even if these people don't sound like native speakers I think we can say they are very skilled in Japanese than most KZbinrs including those that have good accents.

[@timseguine2]

I'd say your accent is the only part of your English that singles you out as a non native speaker, Yuta. Apart from that, your English is nearly flawless to my ear. And your accent is more endearing than an impediment to understanding.

[@theelevatedone2536]

Conversely, we can also say that Yuta’s English is actually better than many native English speakers for the same reasons. Being good in a language really comes down to how much effort you put into mastering that language, native tongue or not.

[@TheAntinowherelane]

Native level is definitely relative. Plenty of native US English speakers can't even differentiate between there, their, and they're etc.

[@alkaline914]

That's so true lol

[@MarkusAndersen96]

Plenty? I'd say it's at least 80% of the god damn population. Non-native speakers have better grammar for crying out loud xD

[@alkaline914]

@@MarkusAndersen96 true lol

[@DANGJOS]

For English speakers, there isn't any pronunciation difference for those words in their language, so they're just going to have to pay closer attention.

[@kristoffer8609]

US English is already a bastardised version of the original language. So don't hold it against them.

[@SunnySideUp360]

Oh man this part was excellent, you had me dying Yuta! "I think hes read alot of hen... japanese manga with complex story lines and advanced vocabulary." 😂 😆 😂 😆 😂

[@RafaelLima-ce1rh]

That interaction between them was amazing, Dogen sketch made Yuta go deeper into the subject, and there's so much depth on it, unfortunately KZbin is not designed to those people show us their full knowledge and have academic level discussions, but I love that we have few of them that somehow manage to trick the algorithm and educate us while being palatable to advertisers.

[@Rhythm162.]

What he says about bilingual people is 100% accurate, I was born and raised in America but my mom only spoke to me in Portuguese, I used to go to Brazil every summer aswell although my accent is absolutely terrible, Joey's japanese is the outcome of high effort into studying and practice, he has all my respect

[@michelleg.4587]

I use to speak Japanese as a young child but forgot the language in it's entirety where moving from Japan to the states. All languages are beautiful😊

[@specialk9999]

Kind of the same with me except I can still speak Japanese but have forgotten a lot of the reading and writing.

[@specialk9999]

@@DarkDragonSlayer not sure who you are replying to but I do.

[@michelleg.4587]

@@DarkDragonSlayer As for me, unfortunately I do not anymore.

[@michelleg.4587]

@@specialk9999 That's still great you can still speak Japanese ☺️

[@specialk9999]

@@DarkDragonSlayer true, lol

[@krischi_mk]

It was a joke

[@bizklaustdeity3115]

As someone who lives in a country that is multiracial (which is Malaysia), the accent changes when speaking English with a certain race. So to me accent doesn't really matter when I speak in English.

[@TheJadeFist]

As long as communication works, who cares? There isn't much to get too concerned about. Even within native language speakers in the same country there are accents, or the case you mention of race, like ya, in the US you can usually tell just by listening if the person is white or black, not always but there is more often than not there is a noticeable difference. As well as regional accents you can kinda get a feel for.

[@aman-hl9re]

Sama juga kalau cakap bahasa Melayu. Slanga berubah ikut bangsa pendengar

[@jackjackyphantom8854]

@@aman-hl9re There are a lot of Malaysians who can't even speaks BM fluently. If u know what I'm saying, u will know. 😂

[@Punyulada]

As you guys often say, "no one speaks BM the way you're expected to in the SPM BM essay"

[@DragonDDark]

your accent is based on your first language, not race. Someone who speaks a language natively will have habits that occur when he tries to speak English and so on.

[@NoRefund17]

I hope everyone knows Dogen was likely joking and not making a real point with that being rude lol (But still enjoyed this video and the great points made)

[@NoRefund17]

@@DarkDragonSlayer cool

[@shadowshiro7301]

@@DarkDragonSlayer subjective.

[@viljamtheninja]

@@DarkDragonSlayer It's not a contest. I haven't watched much of Joey's stuff but I presume they have very different focus.

[@pokyboss4281]

Yeah, the vast majority of Dogen's yt vids are basically stand-up comedy

[@Test-xh9oy]

@@DarkDragonSlayer you are embarassing yourself

[@PlastikVesper]

your outro's never fail to impress me, the way you connect your lessons to the topic is hilariously cool!

[@roxiquicksilver]

Yeah, I worked for a Japanese company in London. My coworkers were from Japan but they had a position for fluent Japanese and English speakers. I got the job but later on my boss told me that some Japanese people who grew up in the UK applied for the job but actually their formal Japanese wasn't too good and they thought they would be ok because they are native speakers of Japanese. I on the other hand, knew I wasn't a native speaker and prepared a lot before the interview. And for this reason, I got the job instead of them.

[@spacevspitch4028]

You're definitely 英語 上手, Yuta! 😄 But seriously, your English is fantastic 👍 I really enjoyed this little trio of videos! Your first video, Dogen's response, and now your response to the response 😁

[@sakataginko9092]

I’m glad Joe Inoue was mentioned here. He’s a very talented KZbinr, musician, and polyglot as well.

[@theelevatedone2536]

I love Joe Inoue too. Really funny and awesome guy. It always seems to be the Joe’s (Joey, Joe, Jō) who are Jozu if you know what I mean :D

[@michelleyamamoto5519]

I didn't think you were rude about Joey at all, and I'm American and don't hear an accent in Joey's Japanese. But he grew up speaking English, so it's natural to wonder whether he has an accent. Not rude.

[@Name-jw4sj]

So can someone tell me why it is rude to say someone has an accent?

[@JoshFlynn101]

@@Name-jw4sj could suggest a lack of skill in totally correct pronunciation

[@Name-jw4sj]

@@JoshFlynn101 That is not what having an accent means dude.

[@JoshFlynn101]

@@Name-jw4sj a perfect pronunciation has no flair to it originating from the speaker's usual language. Perfect pronunciation can be learned and therefore mentioning any hint of an accent could be taken as an insult to the speaker's proficiency

[@Name-jw4sj]

@@JoshFlynn101 If a person gets insulted for having an accent, then that person needs to grow up. Nothing wrong with having an accent, and it shouldn't "feel like an insult".

[@manabellum]

“I think he read a lot of Hen- Japanese manga …” made me rofl 🤣

[@pendragnx]

would love to see a Yuta/Dogen collab video someday!

[@hideakisato6406]

“He sounds like he hasn’t even left Japan” killed me💀😂

[@FunningRast]

I love this type of content. I hope it doesn’t end here.

[@TheOtakuDude]

Joey The Anime Man's Original Japanese speakings sound great to my ears. He's good whenever he talks in Original Japanese. Akidearest on the other hand, I feel like she's just started learning the language.

[@arielasentista6637]

Kasisimula nga lang ni Agnes mag-aral ng Hapon. At least that's what Google Translate told me ;)

[@cookiemonsterhacker3131]

lol

[@TheOtakuDude]

@@cookiemonsterhacker3131 Ariel said that Agnes (Akidearest's real name) just started to learn Japanese.

[@TheOtakuDude]

@@cookiemonsterhacker3131 Also, Ariel and I are both Filipinos.

[@TheOtakuDude]

@@cookiemonsterhacker3131 Just like Akidearest. She's 100% Filipino. She can't speak Tagalog but can understand it well.

[@Yotanido]

Don't be too hard on your English Yuta. It's really very good. Obviously I don't know the extent of your skills, but just watching your videos, you can definitely speak with fluidity and without a strong accent. I don't know all the correct linguistics terms, but foreign speakers with a strong accent will sometimes replace sounds with similar sounds from their native language and change word structures. (For example, Japanese speakers will often add u sounds between consonants, since Japanese doesn't really do consonant clusters) You don't do any of that. The source of your accent is mainly a slightly different rhythm and the sounds are slightly off. Not replaces, but just ever so slightly off. And quite honestly, this is about as good as you can expect without huge amounts of effort. The slightly off sounds are almost impossible to change, since it is literally impacted by your physiology. The jaw grows in a way that makes certain sounds possible, but locks you out of others. And rhythm is very hard to define, since there is such a big difference even between native speakers. I can tell that your rhythm isn't a native one, but I couldn't tell you why. Overall, though, you pronunciation and expression is very good and anything that outs you as a non-native speaker is super hard to change. And who cares, anyway. You are perfectly understandable and easy to listen to.

[@KingJH0510]

2:02 i couldnt relate to this more I am 100% chinese and have spoken chinese pretty much all my life I am what you would call a native speaker HOWEVER, i studied UK syllabi, mainly spoke in english, consumed english and japanese media, and never use my chinese outside of daily conversations Even though i can speak the language fluently my proficiency of chinese is less than a high schooler, and theres nothing wrong with that, especially when you know more than 2 languages

[@hunyodaisynueve]

Thank you for this Yuta-san! I can speak three languages (Bisaya, English, and Tagalog). My native tongue is Bisaya, which is one of 120+ languages/dialects in the Philippines. However, my reading comprehension in Bisaya is at elementary level. Apart from using Bisaya in communicating verbally in my day-to-day life, I have no use for it in reading, as 99% of things around me is in English. For example, product labels, instructions, newspapers, road signage, menus, etc etc are in English. Even our laws our written in English! Even though I am a native speaker of Bisaya, my reading comprehension is very low. With English, I'm at C2 level of proficiency. According to friends and classmates, I speak with an American twang. My reading comprehension in English is quite advanced. Therefore, just because a person is a native speaker of a certain language, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are more proficient with it compared to non-native speakers.

[@Punyulada]

If I received money every time I saw a comment referring to local languages of the Philippines or Indonesia as dialects... I'd be a millionaire by now. Considering your use of "languages/dialects", it seems you know better than to call them dialects, so I advise you to avoid even referring to them as dialects when mutual intelligibility between most Philippine languages is tenuous at best.

[@__dane__]

Next from Dogen: My response to Yuta's video about my response to Yuta's video (featuring Joey The Anime Man)

[@knofear8859]

Tbh Yuta your English pronunciation is some of the best I've seen from a native Japanese speaker, hell even supposed English-native characters in films like Shin Godzilla aren't quite as good.

[@Bkaijuh]

“Just US Japan, so win-win!”

[@jackjackyphantom8854]

Are u referring to Ishihara Satomi? I think she's okay.

[@YesaAdah]

Ball licka

[@ArgentavisMagnificens]

I don't think Dogen meant it literally when he said it's rude to question Joey's accent. It's more of a compliment, as in his Japanese is so good that it's even rude to ask question it.

[@ryuzakisimms1019]

ナイス、ありがとう I am not a native Japanese speaker, however I am a mixed Japanese, Filipino American. You make a lot of great points. 一生懸命勉強して、頑張ってください I watch Japanese youtubers that vlog real life situations such as going to a tailor, going to the market or ramen shop putting both english and katakana, kanji subtitles to learn Japanese through real life, everyday situations in Japan. そうた It is very important to not give up on learning Japanese even when it gets difficult. Always do your best. Thank you Yuta-sensei. An important lesson I learned on my Japanese learning journey is keep trying even when you make mistakes while learning Japanese 頑張ってください

[@oinkshii]

NOT THE “HEN-“

[@jmbickham]

I know what you mean Yuta, about the “stressed” sounding Japanese. I’d even venture to say that, at least on tv, Dave Spector and Daniel Kahl have elements of this in their speaking as well. Don’t get me wrong, they are both (obviously) very fluent in Japanese and speak very naturally. However, there is a certain quality to their timbre and rhythm that is different that a native speaker. I’m pretty sure I have the same problem despite being considered “fluent” (generally indistinguishable on the phone) and having lived (studied and worked) in Japan for some time. This is of course only being made worse by having moved back to the US with reduced daily usage of and exposure to Japanese language. Anyway, I enjoy your videos and look forward to seeing more.

[@alexloz9174]

Depending on how you talk to everyone has an accent . when I talked to someone from the Middle East he said he liked my American accent and I wasn't aware that Americans even had an accent, but if you grow up and hear only a certain type of dialect makes sense that somebody else will have an accent from your perspective. You weren't being rude he should have used a different synonym 😊

[@Miglow]

Of course everyone has an accent. And there isn't just one type of American accent, there are countless regional accents across the country.

[@village_mayor]

@@Miglow I was going to say! New Jersey accent, West Coast accent, etc. Similar to the UK where I think the accent is thicker the more north you go from London.

[@shadowshiro7301]

guess you never watch the movie Fargo, or any other British films.

[@alexloz9174]

@@shadowshiro7301 I haven't is Fargo good?😊🤔

[@Miglow]

@@village_mayor I'm from Texas and this state alone has several major accents, and only a few are even remotely similar to the deep Southern drawl found in Georgia, which is how Texans are often stereotypically portrayed.

[@oog_y]

Hi, hope all of you are having a great day :]

[@ultrabumblebee]

Hey, thank you friendly person, you too :3

[@vivvy_0]

You too 🌼

[@ZeriAi]

Whenever I watch your videos I always forget you're a native Japanese speaker So I would say yes, 英語上手ですね

[@wraitholme]

Dogen's humor is exquisitely refined.

[@AsukasButler]

If you say so...I find it nauseating

[@jlguidry2]

Am I...wait...am I witnessing the start of some kind of Japanese Language Speaker beef?! I'm used to seeing this in rap/hip-hop, but this is a first for me in the language game. Will they have a language battle?!

[@SelcraigClimbs]

Where were you when pitch accent caused a scene?

[@jlguidry2]

@@SelcraigClimbs oh I was around, just this one seemed more ridiculous to reference a possible "beef." Just the notion of language learning being on the same level as battle rapping and beefs is hilarious to me.

[@Friend-]

Time for a Japanese poetry battle!

[@jlguidry2]

@@Friend- はい!!!!

[@bobmcstuffins8194]

It would seem to me that pronunciation seems to be far more critical with Japanese, Korean, and Chinese than with English. There are many more videos like this that focus on foreign speakers pronunciation of a target asian language than the other way around with English. English is far more forgiving with pronunciation, and even grammar, which is why you don't see many videos of native English speakers critiquing foreign speakers pronunciation (I believe we would consider it rather "cringe"). Anyway, it's just my opinion. It also makes learning these other languages as a native English speaker far more intimidating than it should be.

[@ellebrook3413]

Totally agree. Some people seem to believe or want to believe their language is 'more difficult' and that can come across as a bit superior/ condescending. The fact that native English speakers aren't as hyper critical of heavily accented English doesn't mean we think English less worthy of perfection, rather that we instead place focus on *what* is said, not *how* it sounds. If I had the choice, I'd rather be told my opinions were good than 'Sugoi, your pronounce is sound real Japanese' . Having said that, it's often easier to get your point across and be treated 'normally' over a phone call than in person in Japan which may exemplify the over importance of appearance above all else.

[@bobmcstuffins8194]

@@ellebrook3413 Exactly - when an individual with a strong accent is speaking English with me, I can easily understand them and communicate regardless of the "improper" pronunciation. However, when I speak Korean, I am often met with a blank and confused stare or the question (in English), "What are you saying?" when the only problem is a very *slight* pronunciation issue of a double consonant... When they repeat the correct pronunciation back, I'm dumbfounded as to why they couldn't figure out what I said even with it being so close. Pronunciation is the hardest part of learning these languages and unfortunately something that seems to be far too important to native speakers. I wonder if English learners take this for granted in that we native speakers really don't care about pronunciation so much -- unless that learner's goal is to *sound* native (a very difficult feat, for sure).

[@Nandinandito]

Idk, English with Rachel seems really popular...

[@bobmcstuffins8194]

@@Nandinandito Yes, that is a popular KZbin channel. I haven't seen a video of her critiquing a panel of foreign speakers to determine who sounds "better"... Not saying she doesn't have a video like that, but rather I haven't seen it. What I said was that there are far more videos with that topic that target foreign speakers of Japanese, Korean, and Chinese. Unfortunately, it leads many students to believe that pronunciation is of critical importance. In my experience so far, it feels like I shouldn't even bother with learning the language at all unless I can manipulate my mouth and tongue into positions they've never been in so that I sound as close to native as possible.... All the while being told I'll never sound native anyway. Instead, I'll have to idolize the foreign speakers that have had the opportunity to live abroad and are showcased on educators' videos as having near native pronunciation. Pardon my rant/venting.

[@bobmcstuffins8194]

@Real Aiglon Eh, again, not so much with English unless the goal is to have a perfect American Standard, British, Australian (etc.) English pronunciation. I think with English, "good enough" is well... "good enough". English is interesting in that it adopts different pronunciations which are typically just categorized as accents. I have yet to see a video of a foreign English speaker entering a place of business in America and "shocking locals with perfect English". This is merely my opinion and I don't harbor any resentment or anything like that for KZbin language content creators. It's just my own observation.

[@sazukegu]

now, dogen's reaction to yuta reacting to him reacting to yuta

[@Webberjo]

I'm now interested in hearing people speak Japanese with various non-Japanese accents, like Welsh, Arabic and Swahili.

[@rain1676]

I love you

[@sakataginko9092]

Joe Inoue, who was featured in the video, does that type of stuff if you’re interested.

[@hijay8501]

I LOVE the hen- JOKES 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Yuta youre the best

[@matthewvirgo4042]

Can't wait to see Dogen's response to the response to the response

[@NilesBlackX]

Hahaha yes this is the best kind of "beefing", I'm so glad I subbed to you guys. The end of his video had me rolling, I just assumed it would go on for another couple minutes so when it cut I couldn't stop laughing. And now Yuta watched and responded to it in kind... This is great, it's like Electroboom + Steve Mould, I love it.

[@ajolotemusica]

hey yuta! just a little advice regarding your videos' sound: try to edit the sound clips to create crossfades between each clip (and also fade in and fade out for each clip). otherwise, you end up having clicks and pops whenever a sound clip ends and the next one begins, as i could hear during this video. it's an easy thing to do so you might be able to do it with whatever program you use for the video editing! cheers and keep it up

[@UItraVioIet]

Agree with everything you say, EXCEPT that you think your English isn’t as good as Dogen’s Japanese. It absolutely is. I’ve mentioned before on a different KZbinr’s video that as a native English speaker, there’s just something about Dogen’s Japanese accent that sounds foreign to me. And I honestly can’t quite put my finger on what it is. But the manner in which he speaks is the way I’ve heard native Japanese speakers speak. Pauses, thinking noises, interjection sounds, etc. And you do all that too Yuta. Maybe your accent is noticeably foreign, but you still form sentences and use phrasing that natives do and you understand a lot of nuance that a lot of ESL speakers don’t. For example if we go way way way back to Uncle Roger’s original egg fried rice video, of the numerous reactions I saw, you were the only one who got the “what is the BBC?” Joke. That Japanese habit of self-deprecation is making you think you’re not as good as you actually are.

[@moki4541]

It's always nice to see an argument being respectful I think we miss that a lot nowadays

[@hundvd_7]

6:23 "Sexbooks" That's a freudian slip if I've ever heard one

[@BigGulpsV2]

Yuta and Dogen are just awesome

[@TropicalPianist]

Dogen said he uses or used scripts for his Japanese skits, and that his real life Japanese is not as smooth. I heard him in more or less natural contexts and that’s not native level, very proficient though.

[@Chino-Kafu]

I'm half Filipino half Japanese but grew up with japanese but lived in America. People never notice I didn't grow up in Japan.

[@SoicBR]

Can't wait for your reaction to Dogen's reaction to this

[@zengrath]

I don't understand why saying someone has an accent is rude. I one time many years ago got in trouble at work because i briefly mentioned to a co-worker that the customer couldn't understand them due to their accent. I did not mean anything rude by that or anything, that's just want customer told me, that they couldn't understand my co-worker due to their accent, my co-worker came from another country and moved to USA. In my opinion her English was very good and i had no problem understanding her but i can understand customers on the phone not used to hearing people from her country speak English would have a more difficult time understanding her. But i got in trouble for this, i think she took this as a racist remark, and it had nothing to do with race.

[@VivienBihl]

Why is it that only japanese learners or so obsessed with perfection? Why do they constantly need to rank people based on their language skill? All they talk about is JLPT test and pitch accent, and how they are better than you, instead of focusing on using the language in real word situation. Learning a language isn't some sort of impossible feat, every human being can do it. They only come off as insecure by feeling the need to be ranked.

[@probano]

3:39 Yuta with the Shaft-style Monogatari editing. I respect that.

[@trapsnake6]

I'm not sure if I'm missing the context of this video, as I suppose Yuta's reply could be super dry sarcasm, but... I took Dogen's initial reply as just being a sarcastic build up to his ultimate punch-like of being "jozu". Now I don't know who, if anyone was joking or serious...

[@perryschnabel]

I think you missed Dogens humor completely. You took his words seriously instead of reading between the lines.

[@niels9472]

It's not rude to discuss accent. Thank you for your analysis

[@user-jm1yv8zh1z]

Next: Dogen's response on Yuta's response on Dogen's... I'm confused...

[@TaniaSofiaM]

i mean who really cares , in the end its amazing you can communicate in more than 1 language . Me being Portuguese , lived in England for 11 years and currently in Japan because of my husband (been lerning japanese for the past 6 years) i feel like i naturally express myself in different languages in different situations, and im just glad i can communicate and understand in these 3 languages no matter how fluent it sounds when it comes to Japanese . As long as we can understand each other who cares about "this person is better at japanese / better at english than this person " literally it can put people off while its really fun and a blessing thing to be able to understand other languages to any extend .

[@p1ngu_]

I know I am pretty late but JOE INOUE?!?! DAMN. now I miss naruto. his japanese accent is really good and it really sounds native. i even thought he was a japanese until i watched his guitar tutorial.

[@starryleehiatus5207]

This is really interesting as a psychology student my professor taught us that from the psychology view the *"critical period"* of language development is from the year 7 to 12 (in most countries it means elementary school) what does that mean is that it's better to only focus on teaching the native language to kids in those years because if they don't and instead get taught a language that's not a native in their country for example: in my country we only have one official language and it's Arabic if the kids in my country studied/went abroad or studied in American schools in my country they would NEVER be able to catch up a perfect Arabic and would never be able to speak like a native no matter how many years pass by even if they're still in my country and never left it it would still be impossible for them and they would face so many difficulties regarding the language. But there's also an exception to this case and it's when the country has a 2+ or more official languages for example in Morocco and Algeria the official languages are Arabic and barber another example is Canada's official languages are English and French that means your family, your neighbours, your school, the grocery shop staff, the workplace, your boss, your colleagues, the random strangers walking down the steer they all speak both of the official language so in this case it's better and for the best to teach the kids both of languages during the "critical period"

[@ShakeMistake]

This is fascinating. My family fits this scenario almost perfectly. My brother is 5 years older than me and we both were raised with English and Indonesian. But when I was 6, and he was 11, we moved from Indonesia to USA, so we didn't speak Indonesian as much. After about a year after moving, I almost completely lost my ability to speak Indonesian, whereas my brother, can still communicate effectively with it, 20+ years later.

[@Myron1010]

井上ジョーさんは生まれ育ちアメリカなのに完璧な日本語喋るよね。しかし英語、日本語以外の言語も話せるしね。 ほんと言語学者だな。

[@jsullivan2112]

Canadians and Americans are also perfect examples. Our English is absolute garbage when you really think about speaking English "properly", there is so much slang and linguistic errors going on, not to mention terrible grammar, that I've met many Swedes and people from India who's English is far better in that sense. In fact your English is much better than a lot of my friends who grew up here in Canada.

[@prismaticc_abyss]

This is very much true. I grew up in Germany to a Russian family, my German is obviously perfect as it is my native language, but we also spoke a lot of Russian at home so I am also a native speaker of that, although I have not been to Russia and rarely communicate with people outside my family in Russian and when I do speak Russian to members of my family I add German words when a Russian one doesn't come to mind. English on the other hand I learned from a young age but not as a baby so I don't speak it natively, but I am very proficient in it (C2). Although I know English very well, I still speak with a slight accent and lack practice speaking it on a daily basis. Russian on the other hand I have a pretty perfect pronunciation as I am a native speaker, but I do have a sort of awkwardness to the way I speak as I forget words and make grammatical mistakes.

[@captainkacke1651]

I love this low-key war that broke out between these two absolutely wholesome KZbinrs I love, over something so minor…

[@MATTierial]

I can't wait for Dogen's reaction to this in 6 months!

[@lostintsuruoka2656]

Why do Japanese-learning English speakers/English-learning Japanese speakers put so much pressure on themselves regarding languages? I find it so funny. So many TikTok videos from Japanese people about "learning how to speak good English", and so many videos from American dudes about "learning how to speak good Japanese". I could hardly find the same type of videos this in Spanish or Turkish. You're all jozu bros, now kiss and never fight again.

[@brenos.5017]

To some people having an accent-free pronunciation is the pinnacle point of learning a language. Foreign accents are often made fun of by native speakers, which makes non-native speakers more ashamed of their accents

[@juhltone1]

Yutasan, your English is very 上手🙌🏼🙌🏼💪🏼💪🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼

[@aimiesfeliz]

「上手」からぬけられない悔しさは両方から伝わってくる🥲。私は共感と尊重しかないね。

[@fumeokid]

I really enjoy this channel. Thank you!

[@_eleyya]

I’m from Singapore and I speak English and Mandarin. I consume a lot of Chinese media and read novels. I also talk on the phone with friends from Hongkong and China but they still mention that I have a Singaporean accent in my Mandarin when they listen carefully. So my level of mandarin will definitely not be their level since our classes here are taught in English.

[@Leyhkeze]

I can't wait for Dogen's response to Yuta's response to Dogen's comment about Yuta's video!

[@tbk2010]

Meanwhile, Joey is probably profoundly confused about why everybody is so interested in his speaking patterns. If he's even aware of it.

[@JanelleCeo]

Damn, what if dogen reacts to this video and posted it..

[@nothnx3210]

I would never dare say that someone is a native of a language if they only spend a few years learning it in their baby years, hahaha. I may have learned Spanish as a kid along with English, but I would never consider myself as a native speaker of Spanish. I very much agree with being bilingual 100%, but definitely not a native of the Spanish language. I would consider someone to be a native in a language if they immerse themself in many contexts behind the language from casual (language) all the way to the academic and business parts of that language. You cannot separate culture from a language, so furthermore, to be truly native in a language, I think knowing the unspoken language such as body language, the customs, and beliefs (in a particular country) would carry that person to native status. It's definitely not just based on the pronunciation part of it. I'm somewhat fluent in Japanese . . . I know the customs well, have observed what Japanese people do on the streets, have read on the beliefs, reading the air, and so on. I'm not THAT close to native fluency, but I'm comfortable to say I'm semi-fluent in it. I think to be able to know how to act in the society is part of the language too.

[@kinjoko]

I completely agree. Many people believe in the "pronunciation equals native", but as you said, that isn't the case. Because of this, a lot of people try faking an accent, but always exaggerate and sound even worse than they did before.

[@reddragoon7981]

I'm not a native speaker in both, however I'm bilingual in English and Spanish as I've been speaking and learning my second language since I was 5 years old. I have better Spanish than some of the native/heritage speakers I grew up with.

[@SimpleMusings]

I think Dogen was just doing a long set up for that joke. I'm pretty sure he had no offense with the video yuta made

[@Gpresence]

It’s interesting, Yuta seemed a bit taken aback by the comment by Dougen that “It’s almost rude to even discuss Joey’s accent,” but I don’t think Yuta was even the subject of that comment. This could be because Dougen comes from an English-speaking background with different rules and grammar, but it seemed as though he was talking about himself; as someone with worse pronunciation than Joey, he didn’t feel himself qualified to discuss Joey’s potential accent. I don’t think he meant by any means that Yuta shouldn’t have brought it up.

[@ilyaibrahimovic9842]

Probably most will agree that Yuta has a noticeable accent but it isn't aesthetically bad (unlike German French) and he's more skilled with English words than an average native English speaker

[@jbl9552]

I can easily detect an accent from Dogen. His enunciation is a bit awkward.

[@Punyulada]

I really like this video and how you're opening up the discussion that native speakers are not necessary better than a more proficient non-native speaker who exerted more effort and/or spent more time learning the language, especially if they don't use it that often. My native language is a local language of Sumatra but because I was born and grew up in the Philippines, I only ever speak my native language when I'm speaking with my mum's side of the family. I use Filipino and English at work, so even if those are my second and third languages, respectively, I have considerably more time put into practising and actually using both languages. I spent considerably more time at school and work than I ever did at home, so it makes sense. Sometimes I even try to apply Filipino grammar (more complex) to my native language (simpler grammar), which makes my speaking in my native language very unnatural. It's also the consequence of living far away from a place where I can expose myself to more people speaking it; if I lived in Sumatra for example I'd be speaking it far better, then probably have Bahasa Indonesia as my second language instead (which given the grammar being more similar, would lead to much less confusion in my own head.) That said, people considered native speakers of a language can sound less natural or even be less eloquent at it than a second or third language speaker, depending on a host of factors.

[@badsketch9264]

I think Dogen's video was a 100% joke.

[@ben_sisko2149]

About (bilingual) native speakers , you're completely right Yuta. I'll give you all one example: do you guys know Jean Reno? Is the French actor from such movies as Léon The Profesional, The Da Vinci Code, The Big Blue, etc... ok, well, he's name is not Jean Reno, it's actually Juan Moreno. It just happens that his parents are both Spanish immigrants. He was born and raised in France, so obviously he speaks French natively, but he is native in Spanish too. Now, is his Spanish flawless? nope. Is it at least better than most NON-native Spanish speaker? Well, he's better than some, but he constantly makes mistakes and a lot of other people (non-native speakers) like actress Gwyneth Paltrow speak Spanish way better than him, or Freddie Highmore, who's Spanish is insane, he speaks better than most natives; no joke. Heck, Yuta himself speaks Spanish better than Jean Reno (Juan Moreno) as far as I can tell watching his Spanish speaking channel. So, yeah, no. It is not enough to be native. You really have to grown up actively speaking the language and not just getting a lot of pasive inputs. That will give you a native level listening skills (more or less), yeah, but if you don't try to speak yourself... There are countless examples. I don't know, Oscar Isaac, for intance is not that good at Spanish either. PS: no, talking about someone accent is not rude. Why would it be if you are not being dismissive about it.

[@PuckishAngeI]

Wow, your English is very very good.

[@yoku651]

In my opinion, you become jouzu (unironically) when you're able to make jokes, specifically puns, in the language

[@YellowBunny]

Your English is pretty 上手!