My thoughts on AoE4

[@McSniffle]

8:54 This drove me nuts until I realized its an option you can change. In the Game/UI settings you can select a dropdown option that says "select only" instead of "select and focus" which saves A LOT of pain when you're trying to deal with a battle and keep units producing.

[@danielvergara4997]

OMG is true, i remember that but i never used it 11

[@dj_koen1265]

1

[@wcko87]

I initially tried turning on that option, but the same option is unfortunately tied to the town center as well, so pressing H can no longer be used to move your camera back to your base. What's needed is for the option to be separated for multiple building selection hotkeys vs single building selection hotkeys.

[@McSniffle]

@@wcko87 some rts games also have camera save hotkeys and that's also a good alternative.

[@rainbowevil]

@@wcko87 if spacebar operates as it does in AoE2 for going to selected, you could at least press H, space - an additional button press which isn’t ideal, but is similar to how you’d do it for unit group selection in AoE2, either double pressing the group number or pressing group number then space.

[@-Raylight]

That bell noise is the real stress test indeed xD Yeah able to change hotkeys is a must. Especially in RTS game I hope the game will be success, so RTS games' golden day will be back like in 2000s

[@adas3497]

this ^ heavily. The golden days need to come back xD

[@safe-keeper1042]

I wonder what the reasoning is behind not allowing players to change hotkeys. I get that this is beta, but there are devs out there who genuenly do not allow players to change hotkeys (cough, Paradox, cough). I wonder why.

[@weredraco]

*DING DING*

[@dillonmartin5570]

warcraft 4

[@CosmicValkyrie]

My brain will explode with that ding ding.

[@ALC0LITE]

I agree with pretty much everything, but would add: They need to fix the minimap. It's such a clusterfuck and is completely useless after a certain point because you can't differentiate any icons in the massive blob of colour.

[@zachariastsampasidis8880]

Also icons like sites relics and resource patches need a readability update

[@smallone123121]

I agree

[@perrytran9504]

Honestly starting a 4v4 will make the minimap instantly useless. 3v3 is already barely readable for the most important resources.

[@ruler898]

either an option to scale it larger or scale the icons down, preferably both.

[@Ionabio]

This! I have seen it less spoken. I thought it was too small for me. it needs to be customizable like other things he suggested

[@DM-rc4yu]

Why is every single action in this game delayed? You click, wait for the cursor animation to finish and then the action happens. Also, it looks as if the game was designed to look good in zoomed in shots but actual gameplay camera was secondary. So you end up with AoE2 looking way sharper and nicer looking during actual gameplay.

[@XTheLolX301]

Some professional players pointed that out even in close beta, so i guess they will be working on polish that

[@adrianhirst484]

Man's tripping if he thinks AoE2 looks better than AoE4 during gameplay

[@radred609]

@@adrianhirst484 AoE might be old, but at least it's crisp. Doesn't matter how much better the unit models are if everything looks blurry. Starcraft 2 came out 10 years ago and has cleaner, crisper graphics.

[@evangelosvasiliades1204]

@@adrianhirst484 You are tripping if you think AoE4 somehow looks better.

[@Currywurst4444]

@@radred609 Yeah, the game doesnt necessarily look bad, but everything looks so wobbly and washed out. There is very noticeable clipping between the units and the 3D graphic makes everything seem bent and squished. If you set up everything right the game can be very beautiful but during actual gameplay its just not crisp enough.

[@nickburose8286]

I'm kinda surprised you didn't mention the unit queue UI being individual tiles vs a single tile with a number on it. I found it almost impossible to deduce how many units I had queued, esp when you hit the width limit of the queue.

[@TonyRedgrave]

@@booradley6832 I had this same problem. Having colored icons like in the other AoE games could be a vast improvement. If they don't change it, maybe there'll be a mod for it.

[@pumpkinpie8235]

+1

[@sanethoughtspreader]

It's also really hard to cancel construction queues for units as the icons are surrounded by clickable screen. So it is easy to click on the map and deselect the building instead of cancel. Very annoying.

[@louisr6560]

Let´s just say the UI in general could be improved. It doesn´t look good and lacks functionality.

[@theinnkeeper768]

@@louisr6560 Yeah the UI and lack of visual feedback was my main gripe in general. Not seeing my scout's waypoints REALLY through me off a lot more than I thought it would for instance. I really enjoyed the game in general and look forward to purchasing and playing it on release, but I hope they tighten up a lot of these aspects considerably before then.

[@yuriyui]

Personally, I feel the cannons in AoE4 is so underwhelming comparing with AoE3's artillery pieces, at least in terms of graphical effects

[@disc0king21]

they are for sure, but its also technically 100s of years earlier cannons so they arent as well made and intimidating.

[@SuperMoine777]

In this era, you aren't used to hear a blackpowder weapon, it undoubtedly was frightful for anyone hearing them, so it could be reflected that way. This recalls me of Medieval 2: Total War, the blackpowder weapons there were really designed to be scary.

[@acefreak9561]

@@SuperMoine777 yea in medieval 2 they were better used against fortifications but a good well supported number could really be scary

[@jiggaman198]

Naval combat to me is the most underwhelming downgrade from AoE3 to 4

[@m00rtin4]

i dont like that cannons can transform instanly from mobile mode to attack mode compared to aoe3

[@CornBredCrusader]

Honestly for me AoE4 seems more like a continuation of Empire Earth than Age of Empires. From the graphical style to the simplified combat and eco systems, to the barely readable units at a glance, the design choices taken in AoE4 seem far closer to EE than the AoE2 that most people love, at least IMO

[@rimtas04]

I don't know about you but units in EE are pretty recognizable. maybe in Atomic WW1 to Atomic Modern ages, you can get confused over aircraft but for the most part the game's units a differentiable.

[@mailboro]

They should also release graphics dlcs for free... e.g. customize how much texture is used for the units. Would also like to have different skins for the units. Somehow AOE2 units look more iconic and stylish than AOE4 units

[@juanca2807]

Sorry to disapoint you but it is extremely odd that if they decide to do a complete pack of better graphics it will be free, games used to call this "elite" or "extreme" textures/graphics; anyway in my opinion it should be free too, since they set the bar really low.

[@brokensky2378]

It’s the lower fidelity of older graphics, so the designers are forced to highlight things more. But that wouldn’t look quite as good if the style is still the same.

[@juanca2807]

@@braynaguilar8567 Actually the game is not that expensive in some countries, but pressed to guess, they will add this with an expansion pack, then more reason to buy it; in my book DE versions are already a remaster, I don't see the point of charging for graphic updates when they are already selling an old game again.

[@911treason3]

I'm not a fan of the cartoonish style. Takes away from the emersion for me, especially as a military history fan. I like a more serious and realistic motif

[@poyloos4834]

@@911treason3 i seriously don’t get that. I’ve played it and not once did anything feel or look particularly “cartoony.” Im a major military history nerd too, and what really caught my eye is how much aoe4 really made battles feel like they would happen in real life, or at least moreso than aoe2. Idk, the flow of battle, infantry lines, cav charges, and pacing all make it feel more believable in a “hmm, maybe medieval warfare looked something like this” sort of way.

[@TheWarClouddV2]

I think archers should be how AOM archers are. 1st shot is a 50% chance to hit, 2nd and 3rd shots are 75% to hit, and 4th shot is 100% to hit. I would rather have this if ballistics is not in the game.

[@mickethegoblin7167]

This is why AOM was the best

[@Codexter1]

Stupid mechanic, hit chance should be based on how good your arrow dodge micro is, not some rng

[@mickethegoblin7167]

@@Codexter1 except dodging arrows makes absolutely no sense. This way makes the most sense- they get more accurate the more often they shoot at a target as they more accurately judge distance and location.

[@kaws8778]

@@mickethegoblin7167 it is very realistic and also detrimental to professional players who prefer skill solutions over rng ones. If the pros don’t like the game, it will have been a failure. No sponsorships no advertising no Red Bull wololo.

[@mickethegoblin7167]

@@kaws8778 I suppose we have different metrics of what 'failure' entails. I could care less about 'pros' or those sponsored tournaments- and as long as enough people buy the game, it would not be a failure.

[@Revenant_Art]

"New age is upon us" during gameplay I saw future: Age of Mythology 2 in same engine maybe next 1-2 years its like they testing some features used in AoM for new games. It makes percfect sense coz AoE4 looks more like AoM then AoE2. Maybe we will see even Rise of Nations 2 in next decade. And I belive Microsoft and Relic would be working on these games. They know people still love they games and play them after all these years. Thats why they call it "new age". A New Age of their old strategy games. An this idea makes me happy.

[@sakib9102]

I would be down for a new Rise of nations game.

[@yahyamusseb]

@@sakib9102 do the studio made rise of nations still around? I can't remember the name

[@sakib9102]

@@yahyamusseb the developer company that made the og game now makes mobile games for nexon which is one of the worst among mobile gaming companies ( kinda like EA). Microsoft however still has the rights to rise of nations franchise.

[@borklucianak5966]

thanks to rise of nations, i got mine first kiss,thank you microsoft,i hope the same

[@saltynarwhal]

Settings -> Controls -> Find and Cycle Units & Buildings set that to Select Only. It stops the camera from moving when you select all buildings... also when you have all buildings selected you case use TAB and Ctrl TAB to go thru each unique group.

[@karstenhiser3446]

I know this isn’t really what your channel is all about and it’s your channel so do what you want. But I LOVE your gameplay videos. I like the chill atmosphere and the game play is solid.

[@nakulmohan115]

Hey Spirit, great video again. One thing I want to point out is that you can click a building’s icon after clicking F2 to see all it’s units. So I still found the button useful. The change of focus is quite annoying though like you mentioned.

[@Johan_1]

One major thing that bothered me is when you select several barracks, for example, and press the button to create a unit, it will queue up one unit and not one unit per barrack.

[@Gonzalo_105]

Maybe try shift+ "unit hotkey". Idk if it works, didnt play it, but in aoe2, if i want to make a lots of units thats what i do.

[@Johan_1]

@@Gonzalo_105 That will queue up five units in total, not five units per barrack.

[@mafiousbj]

Having 100% accurate arrows which magically move after being fired is a bit too much, and it will probably ruin one of the most striking and attractive to watch aspects of high level micro which is archer wars...they should definitively eliminate that

[@HazmanFTW]

If there is no change between this and the full game, I'm not going to buy it. The hotkeys are a bit of a deal breaker for me, plus not being able to quickly jump to your barracks or stables etc makes it hard to remember where I put my buildings.

[@supolik2]

Filtered

[@TheGoodLuc]

Yes, too much sameness is bad.

[@robin9740]

@@TheGoodLuc hotkeys are insanely important in any RTS. Idk why you don't accept his valid criticism. I like the game as a whole, but that is an obvious point that should be addressed.

[@mattgopack7395]

There is always the option of putting your production buildings on a hotkey - but yes, the fact that it is a manual fix is not exactly ideal if you're used to there being a default hotkey to globally select them all.

[@TheGoodLuc]

​@@robin9740 I'm not about hotkeys. You're right, hotkeys are very important. I just worry the game will be nearly AOE 2 in 3D.

[@stooge_mobile]

They'll change hotkeys, since that will be absolutely essential to attract gamers from aoe2. The projectile physics are really bad though. Let's see how that gets resolved. I think it's a good thing that you can't "dodge ballistics" however, like some elite players in aoe2. Focusing on bigger strategy choices is more interesting than single unit micro. But the hardcore esports crowd will disagree, which is cool.

[@whatrnames]

It is also an ease of game balance thing. A lot of game balance uses mathematical models to estimate the strength of a certain strategy, but that is very difficult with the sheer variability caused by the impact of micro. Instead of archers having a consistent output, they have a wildly variable output depending on the scale of battle, the skill of the players, etc. Having archers have a consistent damage output simplifies that.

[@jurgnobs1308]

@@whatrnames it also makes quite quite boring

[@VittamarFasuthAkbin]

maybe they won't disagree, because esport can be played very strategically (rather than tactically) as well

[@rafamilk1]

honestly only the pros dogde ballistics, and is not something game changer. You never see daut doing it and still he is top 10 in the world for example. AOE4 is a competitive game by nature, making it more casual dosent make sense.

[@jurgnobs1308]

@@rafamilk1 you ll see people dodging projectiles in most games above ELO 1000.

[@hernandogaribaldi8627]

I want to think weird projectile arks due to 100% accuracy is 'Deus Vult' working as intended.

[@MasterSonicKnight]

About projectiles like arrows always hitting, from my experience with coding i think that's actually intentional, since making projectiles follow the target is actually harder to code than just launching the projectile and letting it go its set path, and tbh? I actually rly like having projectiles being consistent with 100% acc rather than being inconsistent and able to be dodged, not only melee units (including infantry) feel much stronger than before (so they can deal with 100% projectiles), having consistent projectiles will also infinitely help the devs later on when they try to balance units, because it's just much easier to balance a unit that has a predictable behavior than balance a unit that sometimes stomps everything, and sometimes dies without accomplishing anything of value.

[@thomasfplm]

I think it depends on how you make the code. You can create a parabola that constantly links the shooter (or where it was when it shot) and the target, than you make the projectile follow that line. It make it simpler to determine when the target is hit and takes damage. Maybe the path would be simpler the other way, buy determining hits and misses would be more complicated, specially with a 3D terrain.

[@MasterSonicKnight]

​@@thomasfplm well yeah, but when it doesn't need to follow u can actually make a much simpler code that just aims at a location and that's it, everything else is basic physics also AoE4 already detects if it's colliding with other stuff because of the stone walls, so this hard part is being done one way or another ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@thomasfplm]

@@MasterSonicKnight, what I mean is that maybe taking the target is easier than checking if the arrow hit it when at the end of the movement widout tracking.

[@MasterSonicKnight]

@@thomasfplm ah ok, and yeah maybe

[@JibronLames]

- Graphics/visuals cartoony - Water graphics/effects are trash (aoe III is better) - Siege units need to be manned (horses/men) - Buildings seem small compared to unit size - Placing units on walls seem janky - Why are arrows homing missiles? - Unit icons seem similar to one another

[@Desolaytore]

Hard to even see unit details when the colors are so damn bright and cover the entire unit.

[@Greendude439]

The only saving grace with the select all military buildings hotkey in AOE4 is that you can use tab to switch between buildings similar to how you can switch between which unit you can use the special abilities from in Starcraft 2, but I get your point, and I'd still prefer having both separate select all hotkeys for each type of military building and having a select all military buildings hotkey.

[@zeroyuki92]

I believe the homing arrow 'issue' is indeed intentional. Basically making APM much less useful and let you focus on macro instead. There are much more active skills in units to compensate a little bit, but it will not make you win/lose battles that are otherwise impossible to be done. So yeah, basically it becomes a much more friendly game for casuals to just play multiplayer in weekend without worrying that you need to learn about stuffs like micro mangonels against archers in order to participate. Which I think is a good thing since it let people who enjoy the much more click intensive AoE2 to keep playing the game, and leave AoE4 for more chill massive army vs army engagements -- basically bringing new people to RTS which is always an intimidating task. I will stick with AoE2 for competitive viewing, but I might play AoE4 more for campaigns and casual pvp.

[@Mightfox]

There's still going to be lots of micro advantages to leverage even if you cant dodge projectiles. Just look at other RTSes where projectiles arent dodgeable.

[@konstantincvetanovic5357]

for better or worse ,aoe4 looks like what mobile rts ads want to achieve

[@Sebubu]

Thanks for a proper review, and not just a clickbait and hate towards the game for views ❤️

[@AndrewSixxDP]

always dropping good content, thank you spirit!

[@SuperJoF]

1- We need custom hotkeys. 2 - (8:58) There's an option to disable this. 3 - The Zoom aspect is adressed when you incorporate the rotate camera into your play

[@jasohavents]

The technical stress test pattern is probably the cheekiest one I've ever seen, I'm like... I wanna listen to Spirit but I'm laughing to hard because 'technical stress test' is just being a meme in the background.

[@namekiannameless2752]

well, it kept the AoE tradition of sentient siege machines, and the bombard tower projectile used to sharp turn in the flight in AoE2, so I can say they are pretty faithful to the predecessors

[@YeahNoTellTheTruth]

The moving arrows is clearly on the top of those things you mentioned.

[@princeimrahil6557]

I really love AoE IV, it was a friggin blast to play. I've already preordered

[@alkostach]

Preorders are dumb.

[@Ulfhir]

Props to the devs for somehow managing to make the graphics both beautiful and ugly simultaneously. The towns are lovely, but the battles are just blobs of neon.

[@riekopo7638]

The lack of blood and corpse skeletons really ruins it for me.

[@911treason3]

Aoe2 4 life. I hate the cartoon stylization of everything. That's why I never played the civilization series. I want a more serious and emersive experience of military conquest.

[@01Gshadow]

Homing arrows and homing cannon balls are from AOE3. You can use stationed great cannon to fire at an native canoe, which is fastest boat unit, and still hit it with a super unrealistic projectile arc.

[@gungnir3926]

They did the same as in aoe3. Making it more like LOL in look. However it is obvious that the simplified and boxy look of aoe2 is the biggest difference making that game more suited for "chess players" who wants to min max tiles etc. Borders and tiles should still be VERY distinct for the players, even at the cost of realism/eastethics. This is just my guess as why aoe2 like chess is such a long lived classic unlike many others. Imagine Civ5 without its hexagonic setup. That would be confusing.

[@thomasfplm]

About the walls only being destroyed by siege, I think it would be interesting to have a "Sappers" technology that would allow villagers to destroy walls widout alerting the opponent unless there is a unit or a tower with line of sight to it.

[@dj_koen1265]

That sounds hilarious

[@BenDymegalols]

Games industry person here, the homing arrows are almost certainly a design choice. The amount of time different between implementing projectiles as homing/not homing would be minimal.

[@Actimus123]

Some negative things that will keep me away from this game for the time being: At this point with limited play-time I feel like the strategy part in this game seems incredibly straight forward, with less unit-paths to choose from when you play. A lot of the upgrades, especially the university upgrades for Brits are so boring: "20% better this, 10% better that" - I have a thing against those upgrades, they just bore me in every game. The terrain is so varied and subtle in it's inclines making it difficult to get a read on the elevation changes, I don't know if there's bonus for elevation right now though. However mountains getting kinda in the way of the camera just don't look nice. It feels like the start of the game is so simplified it has become useless, only thing you have to do is run around with the scout - and sending him back with the sheep takes away that activity as well. All the buttons and icons are so uniform I struggle to see the difference between upgrades or units - of course you can learn it from playing a lot, but diverse and unique iconography is preferred in these sort of games. Especially the colors used.

[@kevinbell9255]

"Projectile mechanics haven't quite hit the mark". What a wonderful way to sum them up!

[@ryannguyen7466]

I suppose if AOAE4 goes too hyper realistic, they will become Stronghold. I love the archer on wall things and how a wall can block projectile means that wall is no longer just some extra defense layer but more strategically involve.

[@Nic0Jesse]

I remember when AOE 4 was announced 4 years ago. Cant believe its coming up now

[@robbytherob]

One thing that I wish they add is a functionality to allow you to select all of your buildings of the same type and when I press 1 button they all train units instead of having to press that button multiple times

[@dudeguybro]

Growing up I was a StarCraft guy and more recently got into the Homeworld Remastered series (didn't know about it as a kid!). I knew of Age of Empires, but I never got into it. I played the Stress Test over the weekend, and idk - I didn't really see the appeal in comparison to those two games? StarCraft - though complete fantasy - had very distinct races, play styles, and intense combat. Homeworld, though less popular, also had similar characteristics along with the difficult management of 3D space. Where would you say Age of Empires excels more or lacks in comparison? I'm not opposed to AOE4, but the combat and such just felt very lackluster in comparison to those two games I mentioned.

[@jakubmusiolik1260]

I would agree with what you have siad but i want to add that the fact that archers shoot at thier enemys when they are verz close by looks very strange

[@t.w.a.i.n.]

I knew I wasn't imagining things when I said arrow physics are like guided missiles.

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

its like a mutation between age of empires, stronghold and warcraft, and i like it.

[@FLAMEZ4110]

I like and I hope they keep ballistics on projectiles (sure the animations can look better) :)

[@rickbiessman6084]

Dear SoL, the AoE world wouldn’t be the same without you. Thanks for doing what you do.

[@vjfperez]

Realistic ballistics: allows dodging but trajectory is faster and inaccurate Friendly fire on: including archer misses Higher damage: allowing to use archers as a siege aoe against masses or enemies

[@masafromhell]

This retrospect convinced me not to buy the game. I wasn't sure before but now that i see everything as a whole, it's a clear "No". Maybe they'll fix some aspects of it in the future but for now i'm not paying for it (And certainly not 60$).

[@cybersteel8]

Why

[@Misierbobo]

This video made me realised that what I really want is simply aoe2 with modern graphics.

[@simonanvil4617]

Glad im not the only one. For me now the game isn't wort 60$ (and will never be), I'll buy it when it will cost under 30$

[@MannElite]

I think the hotkey issue is going to be massive if they can't get that lol Pros aren't going to come over if they can't control group production buildings or at least select all of a production building

[@Heinzpeteromfg]

from your videos it seems you have missed that the infantry line can now build siege rams and siege towers. Imho that's one of the coolest new mechanics and makes a lot of sense. On the other hand you said unit readability is fine. I strongly disagree. Thats the biggest problem I had with the game. It's bad enough for me to say I would not want to play the game the way it is right now.

[@stingwookie7873]

No being able to connect stone and palisade walls was annoying issue for me. In my first game I had an unfillable hole between my stone walls and castle too

[@alainpasqualini1869]

Glad that SOTL mentions the speed difference. For me, that was the deal breaker. Who cares about faster dark age if the rest if the game is slower?

[@ottokarl5427]

Every RTS is played on "faster" setting today, so I really hope they just default that one in Age 4, too.

[@Chickidydow]

IMO the game is a lot like CK2 into CK3: a bit dumbed down but feels great to play, ran great, lots of room to grow. I've been having the itch ever since the stress test ended.

[@khatack]

Gotta say, I'm pleasantly surprised by AoE4. There are some minor gripes I had with the stress test demo, but I'm really looking forward to the release.

[@finalizer0]

>projectile mechanics compliants it's just how relic does things. coh players are quite familiar with the homing rockets & cannon shells from those games.

[@Ganara426]

Doesnt mean we cant dislike it. Fuck you relic

[@xanderdom]

Arrow projectiles (not sure if all other projectiles) being 100% accurate seems so OP. They're gonna have to address this imo. Unless the infantry units are mostly tanky, I see this being a problem.

[@BruceRKF]

My short take after playing the stress test quite a bit: Gameplay is fun, similar enough to AoE2 to get familiar with easily, but enough new tidbits to make it feel new and different as well. It seems a bit more simplified overall, which could be good or bad (based on personal preference). A bit more zoom would be nice. Performance seemed fine as well on my quite low performance PC and I did not notice any major bugs. Agreed on the issue of customisation (e.g. hotkeys), they definitely have to fix that. No opinions on balancing yet, did not play enough for that. However the deal breaker for me is still the presentation. The graphics are still far too "colourful" for my taste and the unit/weapon/building size ratio is a big immersion breaker for me. Plus, that fog. And then not shipping all the content at once (editor). Nope, definitely not going to pick it up early, maybe once it's dropped quite a bit in price.

[@curlywhites]

I don't understand the "colorful" complaint. AoE2 is much more vivid and has more contrast.

[@BruceRKF]

@@curlywhites It is hard to explain. It just seems to me as if AoE2 (DE) had "sharper" colours, less pastel if you will. I cannot explain it any better and it's just an opinion anyway. If it works for you, great, but it doesn't for me.

[@frydog4217]

Small issue I had with chinese was idle villager button always prioritized selecting the tax collectors before actual villagers which is incredibely annoying as I really don't care if they are idle as you don't have to control them. Really dumb that you have to cycle through your idle tax collectors before seeing actual idle villagers. Not sure why they are counted as idle tbh if they are set to auto collect. Otherwise completely agree with everything you said.

[@Michael_H_Nielsen]

Did that "Tecnical Stress Test" text float around all the time while testing?

[@SarudeDanstorm]

I would rather wait and delay this game if we weren't going to have scenario editor right off the bat - that's partly what defines Age of Empires.

[@ruknoonshadiddinder9801]

I agree. It seems they were rushed by 6 months but least they aren’t lying about the state of the game like CP2077, Warcraft3 or DOW3.

[@normmacdonaldliveseason3ep866]

@@ruknoonshadiddinder9801 At least they aren't lying.... the absolute state of being a gamer

[@sesleri6457]

When you use their F1 function for all buildings, you can hit TAB to cycle through the choices. But yeah still seems not great.

[@DmytroBogdan]

Autoaim projectiles and no customizable hotkeys is a big issue, imo

[@RoyRagnar]

I like the fact one game can go on for quite a long time and really play it out. Yeah things could be better I agree but I'm loving it.

[@WaterAndEarthGirl]

Even as a complete casual I noticed the lack of waypoint visibility. I tried to set waypoints for my scout and then went "Wait. Did that even do anything?" A quick test confirmed that it did set the waypoint, I just couldn't see it. It was kinda annoying.

[@marjuknazid9017]

I would like to see the age of mythology defentive edition next.... I am really waiting for that

[@magicboxhead9448]

You need to press TAB to cycle Through F1 style selection methods.

[@christopherluke9658]

It’s a fun game and has a nice dock too.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Re: projectiles never missing. I think AoE4 is trying to motivate people to use real counters, instead of how in AoE2 you can stupidly kill a bunch of knights in melee with archers/dodge siege repeatedly, or use infantry to destroy stone walls. This would also explain the slight movement delay. They want you to more carefully think about positioning beforehand instead of micro. And why siege is a necessity to kill walls now, and why you can't house wall, which was never a technique I felt fit.

[@Zuckerpuppekopf]

So is the AOE4 concept of "territory" similar to that of Rise of Nations' (RON) concept of "territory"? That was a MS game from 2003 that introduced AOE style of RTS play but focused more on raising armies more straightforwardly, but limited initial movement by the use of territorial influence boundaries.

[@multihrab]

conclusion: i'll wait for another year til the game is polished and all issues and bugs addressed by the devs.

[@kibathefang6022]

Didn't realize projectiles were this bad since I only played the tutorial. But damn. AoE 2 calculates the approximate position an enemy will be upon the launch of the arrow or projectile, so it's not gonna change mid air which is realistic. You can dodge projectiles once fired. Better fix that.

[@Abou47Pandas]

"a few issues" is an understatement.

[@4C4P5]

I wonder if they did the hotkeys bit to bring the Champs of earlier games back a step and allow for newer players to feel more confident

[@schottenlord]

⚔️😁 For me, it was a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to the release. All the problems are not so important for me at this point, because they are still working on the game anyway and there will be patches later. But it's a big win for RTS games and will introduce many new, young players to this series.

[@GFSuperTrooper]

Hard to say but i think the sacred sites should just require majority instead of all or nothing. Even in a 1v1 spreading your troops across 3 points is generally a bad idea. Either that or work on the placement so they are more grouped together.

[@scardy92]

The hotkeys are a deal breaker for me at the moment. But its totally possible they'll add this feature at the time of release

[@stoyanb.1668]

Omg that cannon ball doing a 90 degree turn lol. thats some crap

[@DesperadoFTW]

I don't know if I like Landmark mechanics... It's a good step up in age advancing mechanic, choosing a feat, but making landmarks buildings be destroyed in order to win I feel will narrow the strategy aspect of the game. Not mentioning custom maps will also become less diverse.

[@Augustus_Imperator]

sorry but this 3d is killing me. truth is, isometric is the best way to go for RTS in my opinion

[@willfakaroni5808]

I’m just excited for the secret units

[@ksr2070]

There's no game like AOE 2 ❤️

[@GFSuperTrooper]

In the final version they really need to get rid of that floating text.

[@dotaloner5362]

Will you make aoe 4 content as your core in the future or you will just stick with aoe 2?

[@Jonasfeet]

Thank you for your thoughts on it

[@schmid1.079]

9:47 Hold up, that setup seems very familiar... spear and axemen on the hill and a mix of archers, infantry and cavalry on the bottom. That has to be the battle of Hastings!

[@anmerpozzo]

Even reminded me of the Med2 Total War version of the battle.

[@schmid1.079]

@@anmerpozzo Yeah thats exactly why it jumped out to me so fast. :P

[@johnmcfarlane3147]

A bit unrelated but it makes me feel giddy inside to see people just know what battle is being fought just by the layout of terrain and armies

[@surgeonsergio6839]

Uhhh.......cause it is the battle of Hastings.

[@safe-keeper1042]

@@surgeonsergio6839 That's what he said, yes.

[@naveensilva2312]

So happy you need siege to attack stone walls and that you can finally place units on walls! Some things I hope they work on are definitely the unmissable projectiles... which makes archers and siege a little op, making siege weapons have friendly fire which I think would add to realism/strategy, possibly ways to incorporate siege weapons into walls to make for some awesome fortress/defense gameplay and on the naval side, having the ability to fire on the go. But overall looks pretty cool, definitely excited!

[@anettera3460]

naval ships can fire while moving with exception of the archer ship, where the dhow is the only version that can

[@Dinofaustivoro]

I would love to see towers built ON the walls

[@beohel]

Castles now have upgrade which gives them cannons. Not exactly on the wall but it is something.

[@safe-keeper1042]

Having to use siege to bring down walls is a game-changer. Looking forward to it!

[@ROFLBOB24]

Archers are trash units though, and it's because they're kinda shit unless you have a ton of them, even then, horses plow through them.

[@TonyRedgrave]

I found the UI lacking. Particularly the icons on the mini map. In larger games, the map was so cluttered, it was unreadable. Why do deer and berries have their own icons? Why is the mini map so small? The rest of the UI was better, but sometimes it was hard to tell what icon was for what in a hurry. Everything being gold and blue likely didn't help. Now these issues could be fixed by simply getting used to them and playing more. They also seem like things that would have mods made for them really quickly. Considering this, I'm not too worried about it.

[@kosai1627]

I feel the same way. But my biggest gripe was the unit portrait icons. At a glance they all look the same, they just have outlines on a colored background instead of a proper portrait in order to be able to distinguish between different units.

[@brainwasher9876]

One thing I really like about SOTL is that he comes off as this aggressively friendly and helpful guy, to the point where you might wonder if he would say anything critical--but he's not afraid to speak his mind when there are things he doesn't like, either.

[@obi-wankenobi8813]

I really like that

[@paweb3810]

He's simply a sincere, confident Canadian :)

[@elhichouelma]

Typical Canadian lol

[@OriGummie]

Not to be dramatic, but I’d die for him

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

Just Canada things.

[@JeanLucPicard85]

I love how useful melee infantry is in AoE4. It's tanky, can hold or push the line and doesn't get shredded by ranged units unless they're anti-armor specialists. A long way from "anti-trash". Good point about the camera being too tilted.

[@rogerwingfield8553]

That's great, one of the things I hate about AOE2 is the fact that 80% of games are knights and crossbowmen. The melle infantry is simply useless

[@Blackthorn1000]

100% agree with this. So satisfying to have a group of men at arms run down and waste a bunch of longbowmen that are undefended.

[@rogerwingfield8553]

Another aspect that promises to break the crossbowmens/Knights monopoly is the presence of gunpowder units in the late game (Age IV) to be much more significant than in the AOE2.

[@Jaxck77]

@@rogerwingfield8553 Try Malay, Slavs, or Maya. Their melee troops are anything but useless

[@rogerwingfield8553]

@@Jaxck77 I agree with you, but unfortunately these are exceptions.

[@personaslates]

Visually the only things that really bother me is how vibrant the colors of the units are and how at the top middle of the screen is too busy. It's also really spaced out so it just takes up a lot of screen space. Otherwise im loving what i see.

[@Qureas]

Especially as chinese. Annoying dynasty tab on the screen all the time.

[@adamkowalczyk9791]

1.Agree about rainbow "puke" on units and buildings 2.walls are way too big and barracks too small

[@konradpyszniak976]

I was going to write the same thing. In AoE2 there was much less colors and more destiguish details of the units. Here its a colorfull mess like in modern painting. At first sight its hard to notice the difference between chu ko nu and crossbow or palace guard and men of arms. Same with cavalery. I would love to see it being changed.

[@stryker5573]

@@konradpyszniak976 I agree it is very hard to differentiate units imo. I really do not like the over simplified styling of the units and the lack of detail on them. Maybe its just youtube vids but units just look like blobs of color with a long toothpick or plastic looking bow. Really dislike the lack of realism in the style.

[@tekky1202]

Agreed

[@rambol1881]

6:39 "projectile mechanics haven't quite hit the mark" ayyyy

[@Nysyarc]

I was looking to see if someone else in the comments caught that lol

[@JewelOfSoul]

oh... now I get it.

[@mattmarkowicz]

They need to make it more flat/table-top style rather than that center-zoom fisheye lens view

[@olegdragora2557]

Yes, I think it would greatly help readability of what is happening on the screen.

[@futurebeats898]

You might get more on screen with the fish eye

[@ATrustInThrust]

Yeah I think this would make a huge difference,

[@ruskyalmond1977]

Even AOE 3 has better camera angle than 4. I tried playing Iron Harvest on Steam and can't stand the camera. It's very "on top" of the map and very zoomy. Just can't play RTS games like that.

[@aweeladdie]

Maybe have the angle start more from above and have it become more acute as the camera gets zooms in closer to the units? It's pretty common, but also pretty effective.

[@iau]

The game just looks so _squishy_, like all actions are soft and smooth, even when not appropriate. AoE2 feels snappy, responsive and tight in comparison.

[@Patchnote2.0]

A good example of that is the lumberjacks and miners at 9:35. They gentle tap the resource and slowly swing their tool. There's no weight to the tool, and it looks like they're in molasses.

[@ivoivic2448]

in general the game looks like just another 3d rts in *pick civilization era or fantasy world*. they all suffer from slow unit animations because for some reason devs believe that'll show off their hard work in animating them.

[@HahnValentin]

I immediatly turned my Mouse Speed Up ans that stupid camera acceleration off. That fixes this for me. But Just Like early AoE2 DE days the customizability in the settings isnt great enough

[@TheGstein]

I think they add unit acceleration to groups with something akin to liquid physics, where the outer units accelerate to catch up to the group when you order them. The plus side is there is no delay to the input (units in aoe2 will turn around and inverse formations to move letting your opponent get many shots off), but the downside is it feels and looks kind of dumb and not realistic at all. I have not played yet but watched a lot of gameplay, and that is the impression I get.

[@nighthawksim6675]

@@ivoivic2448 i tottsly agree. it looks like another aoe3 but with more cartoonish.

[@Daxter250]

i actually kinda dislike that the dark age is now so quickly over. why having a dark age in the first place then if it doesn't serve a good purpose. might as well just start in feudal then. i so wished for the new aoe to have strong and long lasting ages where you really have to think twice if you wanna pay a ton of ressources for the next age or if you want stay and se it for your current unit roster. now the dark age is basically over in 3 to 4 minutes...

[@flipadavis]

Agree. To make an analogy to racing cars, legacy AOE 2 feels more like a mountain road race where there is more strategy to where you shift coming into various corners with more variety among the straights and corners and more time between these decisions to take in the sights. This version feels more like a 1/4 mile drag race where the only purpose of each shift is simply get through it so you can then quickly slam it into the next gear until the race is over seconds later.

[@pyrus2814]

I mean... you normally get to Castle Age within 10-12 minutes in AoE II as well, so...

[@Daxter250]

@@pyrus2814 proves my point. instead of making theages longer, they shortened it even more.

[@sisigs4820]

I think their catering to younger people who are more for instant gratification and can't appreciate the journey.

[@archsimkat]

One more thing I'd like to see discussed is balance. I thought some upgrades were really overpriced, so I dug into the math for how long it took feudal eco upgrades to pay off. Turns out it takes 6 minutes+ for double broadax to pay off with *10 villagers*, so you should basically never get feudal eco upgrades in feudal. I made a video about it on my channel on this topic if anyone is interested.

[@robbytherob]

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Since gold is now required to advance, it doesn’t make sense to spend it on upgrades. A 15% increase is the same as having 1.5 extra workers assuming you currently have 10 working. I would rather just train an extra villager or two to increase my production. The only upgrades worth taking are the farms since you’re pretty much locked to either 8, 16, or 24 farms. Increasing the efficiency of farms will increase your food production which is important for ramping up military production later on.

[@paradachshund]

A month really isn't very long for some of these issues. I'd be surprised if they made any major changes before release, though I'm sure there will be polish if what's already there.

[@DarkxOver]

it depends on how recent the build was we got. if this was the most recent version, id say this is what we will get with barely any changes

[@paradachshund]

@@DarkxOver very good point! We can hope. 🤞

[@ScottyShaw]

They also could have already fixed some issues we noticed, but used an older version where those issues still existed because that issue was the most stable version available for the stress test. If that's the case, development could be further along than we currently expect 😄

[@fluxbomb3376]

We as players could also just stop to take everything in just at release and even before... So we can get back good old times when games were actually finished on release...

[@Jokie155]

@@fluxbomb3376 Except so often they weren't. There are a whole slew of games released in the 'good old times' that had massive gamebreaking bugs that had to be fixed through physical copy expansions, and in some cases like Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines and KotOR 2, were unfinished and abandoned on release by the publishers. Games can actually be fixed post-release immediately now, and without having to charge the consumer those fixes because they're no longer tied to physical media alone.

[@Kerma7]

the #1 thing I didn't like while playing AoE4 was the UI. Sure, you could say the flavour is bad and it looks really generic, but that isn't even my main problem. The big issue I have is that even though the iconography is simple it's hard to tell what you're looking at sometimes without reading the tooltips. Maybe it's just something I need to get used to but all the techs having different images and colours in AoE2 makes quick decision making a lot easier as long as I know what the tech is beforehand. I still got tripped up in 4 even after knowing what everything in the blacksmith was, for example

[@DesertRatsGame]

Compared to Age 2 where all the Icons are very easily distinguishable and have a lot of feel to them. That's probably my biggest gripe with age 4 so far.

[@MAXIMILLIONtheGREAT]

I think AOE2 is still going to be the fan favorite.

[@Waddehaddeduddedaa]

Well AoE4 might find it's own fanbase. I for example love to watch AoE2 but don't really like playing it as it's just too hectic and stressful for me. AoE4 was a lot of fun so far though!

[@Goagubbe79]

@@Waddehaddeduddedaa stressful? Its just a game. Just be brave when you play and believe and you will be a very calm and good player.

[@VineFynn]

@@Goagubbe79 not everyone is a zen master who can compartmentalise their brain like that

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

@@Waddehaddeduddedaa well i dunno about stressful, but there's certain things you "have to do" in AoE2 in multiplayer games that tick me off a bit. like making sure your villagers (at least 5) gather from the same sheep while also making sure your scout is pushing or "herding" the nearby deers towards your town center. then when it comes to military units its hard to keep track of which units are best at a given job depending on your civ. if you're a casual player and you come up against a pro who knows the in and outs of all civs you're gonna be toyed with. another thing that highly frustrates me is peoples tendency to do early rushes using either archers or scout cavalry. which is why i usually play the "Arena" map so the game at least gets started before its over, due to the walls providing some protection in the early game.

[@evangelosvasiliades1204]

@@stefanvandersandt3956 In fairness the mmr system in AoE 2 is good. If you lose enough games you WILL find yourself amongst other bad players you can enjoy yourself with.

[@mistermaster256]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to wait to get this until the campaign editor is available. I spent wayyy too much time on that in the other games.

[@Moaningbird]

did you already release one of your scenario publicly ?

[@mistermaster256]

@@Moaningbird No, it was on an old disc version, and I don't think I have them saved anywhere anymore.