My Thoughts on Inclusivity in TTRPGs

[@theDMLair]

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[@johnhansen4794]

You really stirred up the WergleBergle with this one.

[@danielpayne1597]

o7 salute to sticking to your Christian beliefs and code of conduct, brother

[@blaykron6008]

great take, I love your channel even more now

[@slapsmckenzie9293]

@@theDMLair a nazi is a nazi.

[@007ohboy]

​@danielpayne1597 I agree. A KKK man and a black man should be able to play DnD at the same table. DnD is for everyone. Slavers or abolitionists. Racists or nonracists. People who think women shouldn't vote should be able to play with women that believe they do have the right to vote. Because DnD Is FoR eVeRyOnE.....😂😂

[@simonkillingray4018]

For my take I think role playing games should be for everyone but who you play with is still personal choice.

[@SuperGoose42]

This is the correct opinion

[@devonthurgood9381]

I agree, thanks for sharing

[@cybernoid001]

yup, if you don't like people at the table, talk it over and if you can't come to an understanding, then find another table.

[@szymonlechdzieciol]

Sure thing, but the original tweet was not really about play, but about I guess designers trying to not really even curate who can play their freely sold product, they sell on freaking free market, but... because honestly they can't curate it - to pathetically virtue signal about it.

[@simonkillingray4018]

@ yes, I was responding to the video not the original tweet.

[@triomegazero]

Tolerance is a peace treaty. When one side does not abide by the principle, they forfeit their right to benefit from it.

[@Gametastica]

Damn is that a quote or did you just spit fire into the KZbin comments

[@triomegazero]

@@Gametastica a little rewording on my part, just communicating the paradox of tolerance that better minds have taught me.

[@BelMarduksBizarreBazaar]

ditto

[@dynestis2875]

Ah so "agree with my or I will violently eject you", that's a fascist thing to say.

[@frostmagemarii]

@@triomegazero A misunderstanding of the paradox of tolerance, perhaps. The paradox is that you actually have to tolerate the intolerant (on a societal level) if you want a tolerant society. You combat bad ideas with rigorous debate, expose their faults and show that your ideas are better. If you do anything else, you push ideas underground that fester and build in a world that you have no access to and cannot combat them or you start to become what you claim to be against.

[@Chezident]

Consider something: in most cases, you are immune to political consequences from people's views. Your life will not fundamentally change under a Democratic or Republican president in a lot of ways. With that in mind, saying you don't care what someone's political leanings are can be relatively safe - of course you don't. They have no material impact on you. For someone who is trans, gay, black, female, etc., however, how someone votes conclusively leads to consequences. Real, tangible, ongoing consequences. Trans people have already been re-barred from the military. One state has already pushed to take the issue of same-sex marriage to the Supreme Court under Trump. You would not agree to disagree with someone who is making your life provably, constantly worse. I don't know why you expect that from others. "We don't have to talk politics" is the sentiment of a person who doesn't have to worry about politics.

[@fullovstars9447]

Well said. We should not tolerate the intolerant? or show kindness to fascists

[@JohnSmith-bg4hu]

Someone who is gay, trans, black, or a woman won’t have any difference in their lives either. Nobody is sending them to camps, they still are Americans with the same rights as everyone else. Pretending orange man is going to murder them is just….so childish at this point.

[@willfurey1567]

A person in a position of privilege such as his own of being a cis, white, straight Christian requires actual thought and work to actually bring about truth to his religious values. He has not put in that work, and it shows in this take.

[@taigenraine]

@@willfurey1567 WOW, you are a super tolerant and virtuous person. I never knew before that ones sexual orientation, level of skin pigment, religion, and gender identity was all it took to make them a bad person and invalidate all their viewpoints. All this time I thought it was the content of their character that mattered most, but it turns out you can just lump people together under mostly immutable labels and be intolerant of them completely based on those categories! You have really opened my eyes. It's like I an just waking up! This must be what it feels like to be 'woke'!

[@BrunoFernandes-ty7mf]

Well said my friend. This video is a extremely weak take on the matter.

[@scrapperlock9437]

Fun fact: When a friend of mine quoted this post, I thought the person was talking about Jack Vance, the author of the Dying Earth series that created the Vancian Magic system underlying D&D. The guy died years ago, so I thought this was some sort of posthumous insult -- some new skeletons had been found in Jack Vance's closet and now people are disavowing the Vancian influence on D&D. I did not realize they were talking about the then-Senator. I found out days later and was like, "OH!"

[@elmeromogollon]

I thought the same thing lol

[@LuizCesarFariaLC]

Exact same thought here lol

[@SofaKingDead]

Me too.

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

Imagine how I feel every time "MTG" the politician makes headlines when I'm used to MTG the card game. "AOC says of MTG: 'I used to work as a bartender. These are the kinds of people that I threw out of bars all the time.'" Like WHAT DID WE DO!??? 😂

[@knghtbrd]

I fully expect him to be as nauseating as VP as he was as a senator-but if I saw a screen name pop up and ask to join my game and it turned out that the screen name belonged to him, I'd probably find out AFTER he'd been told the same rules as everyone else. If he's willing to follow them, he can play. If he can't, he can't. I'm not a fan of AOC in political life either. But I saw her playing Among Us during Covid. Some of the memes of the games she were in about her politics or those of her party, but whatever dude. She played well, and I'd play in the same lobby with her. If we're here to play a game and you're playing well with others… y'know, maybe after enough time playing games with either one of them, we might gain some mutual respect and understanding. I'm certainly not expecting their politics to change, nor mine. But being able to communicate with one another like adults is something people have forgotten how to do.

[@eiragwen]

I agree with this opinion a broad, generalized scope. You CAN play games with people who you disagree with religiously, politically, etc. You can love people who don't attend your church or voted for the other person. You can have pleasant family gatherings with those people. It is possible to discover you have more in common so playing a game with someone with opposing view points can be successful and fun. But when a person shows you who they are, believe them. This INDIVIDUAL has shown you who he is, which among many other terrible qualities, is someone who will lie to gain an advantage. You don't want THIS person at your table, the same way you don't want someone you KNOW will prey on you or your tablemates. You wouldn't invite someone who has assaulted one of your players. Or someone who you know is going to spend the whole game trying to sell you on a scam. YOU make judgments all the time on who should be allowed to sit at your table. You make videos about it all the time. You talk about qualities you don't want to play with or run games for all the time. This INDIVIDUAL has those qualities. He is not the prop to make this argument with.

[@Seority]

You act as if you personally know JD Vance. How about not gate keeping a hobby and just never invite Vance over for a one shot again? 😆

[@alexisglaab2572]

@@Seority This is such a cop-out. His politics are well known, his policies are well known, the shit he has said in public is well known, his utter lack of integrity is well known. You don't need to personally know a politician to make an opinion on them, there is literally an entire media ecosystem for that.

[@musumeyo]

@@alexisglaab2572 Exactly. JD Vance called Trump "America's Hitler" in a private text message that was leaked, but he decided to bend the knee anyways. Vance claims that he changed his mind about Trump, but we all know that Trump did not change as a person so the only conclusion to be drawn from that is that Vance is a cynical opportunist just like the rest of them.

[@frostmagemarii]

@@musumeyo So you also believe every thing you believed in a near decade ago and never reevaluate your opinion after being exposed to it.

[@bbarrett726]

And how has JD Vance done any of these things to you?

[@jasongillmore3181]

If you can't understand the Tolerance Paradox, how about the Nazi Bar analogy... Back in 2020, a writer named Michael B. Tager wrote a few tweets about his time at a dive bar in his native Baltimore. While he was enjoying an after work beer he noticed the bartender booting out a seemingly quiet patron. This patron was wearing a jacket covered in Nazi symbolism. When Tager asked about why he booted the guy, the bartender, a seasoned pro, said that if you let one Nazi in, slowly they replace the clientele. “You have to nip it in the bud immediately,” he said, as Tager paraphrased. “These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after a while, they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.” “And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh *****, this is a Nazi bar now,” he continued. ”And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.”

[@The-Gate-House-Grognard]

@@jasongillmore3181 MAGA!

[@Thenarratorofsecrets]

​@@The-Gate-House-Grognard Deport n@zis

[@darthmalicex4118]

Problem is, you could apply that same analogy to ANY group of people. Replace 'nazi' with any other group, like 'muslim' or 'gay,' and see how it sounds then.

[@KingMipedian1995]

@@jasongillmore3181 This right here. 100% Agree

[@ShivaTD]

That's a really good example. Where it completely breaks down is operating under the assumption or belief that everyone who disagrees with you on a massive scope of issues is a nazi.

[@b_z5571]

No everyone should not be allowed in your game. Theres something called the paradox of tolerance where if you try to be tolerant of everyone then an intolerant person will take over and create an intolerant society. Therefore anyone who breaks the social contract of tolerance should be excluded. I don't want wangrods in my game and I don't want people who in real life would have view that would put my safety or freedom in danger. Saying everyone should be included is a nice sentiment but needs to have conditions.

[@MogofWar]

The Paradox of Tolerance is an inaccurate framing because tolerating all people is simply inherently toletate people. The intolerant are not a group you do or don't tolerate, and intolerance is not an attribute people innately possess. It is a choice people make. That means tolerating the intolerant as people does not mean associating with them or accepting their choices. Thus tolerating even the intolerant does not mean accepting their intolerance.

[@VitoWolf-me3tq]

Hell yeah! Haha wangrod… haha

[@k-aw-teksleepysageuni8181]

@@MogofWar THIS....And there are ways to show you don't accept someones intolerance without being intolerant of them.

[@captainpazuzu]

Just to be clear... you're saying you don't have to tolerate those who refuse to tolerate you right? If so. I agree.

[@b_z5571]

@ yes exactly

[@xyzaxy230]

Isn't someone's politics a part of how they treat others? The tweet didn't draw the line at any political disagreement, but at a pretty specific one.

[@FckYou-d5h]

Sure but the tweet is actively lying about Vance's politics. Fascism has no meaning anymore because its used as short hand by the Left for "anyone who disagrees with me." Trump is a deregulater. He does not pass many restrictions; he lifts them. In other word Trump actively makes us more free and yries to.get the government out of pur way. That is not Fascism. In fact, its the very opposite. Hitler nationalised every business in Germany and passed more regulations on those industries than ever before. Trump never nationalised anything. Therefore; not a Fascist.

[@jason916]

The left is full of hate and bigotry

[@Lukevapeur]

It becomes less specific when you expand the definition of fascist to include everybody even slightly right of Mao Zedong. Words mean things and when everything that flies out of somebody's mouth is outrageous hyperbole, well, most normal people are going to stop taking anything that person says seriously. Characterizing JD Vance, a man who by any rational definition is moderate-to-center right, as a full-blown fascist is Clown O'Clock dumb.

[@neiloch]

@@Lukevapeur anyone agreeing with parts of project 2025 is a fascist outright. (this includes JD Vance)

[@EpicEmpires-pb7zv]

@@Lukevapeur Great point. I think that by being inclusive we realize we have more in common than we think. Also important to note that Mao Zedong was for the most part a totalitarian dictator (technically speaking that's extreme right wing). Like most countries that are given the 'communist' label, they're not communist at all. Modern day China is a mostly free enterprise economy with tax levels that are quite similar to the USA (cheaper in many cases) and an authoritarian government. Even that isn't an entirely accurate description. In some ways the government is authoritarian to extremes and in others they are completely uninterested in what Chinese citizens do. The attempt to label people with language that is completely inaccurate is another part of the problem. Most people aren't left wing or right wing. They're living breathing people who love their children just like you do and go day to day trying to get by in this world. Showing kindness to others and being willing to talk to people who have different views than ours and engage with them is what builds happy, healthy communities of people who understand each other.

[@Spark_Chaser]

I'm willing to include people with different viewpoints at my table, but if one of your viewpoints is that my friends should be treated as less than human because they are who they are, you are not welcome.

[@craigjones7343]

Talk about missing the point. You chronic victims are so insufferable. The problem here is all of you insufferable people with you horrible behaviour, not those who you claim to be ‘oppressing’ your friends. You get treated the way you treat others.

[@Antimatter_ray]

ah so you don';t allow indians, chinese, africans, African Americans, latinos etc at your table because by and whole they all believe that a group of people should be treated less than human?

[@jdreedrn]

You are right that "if you treat others with kindness and respect and contribute to the game, you're welcome." I 1:48 I believe the OP is calling out JD Vance for not treating others with kindness and respect, and therefore he's not welcome. You agree with OP.

[@lindarkknight4044]

No it's calling out Vance for his political leaning. Hence why he called him a facist it's a terrible take, real world politics have no place deciding who can play a ttrpg.

[@FckYou-d5h]

If you really think Vance is evil, what do you think about the more than Half of all Americans who voted for his boss? Are we evil too? Should we be barred from playing the game too? All you're interested in is political dominence. Get lost, tourist. We don't need you.

[@dsproductions19]

No, he's saying he'd welcome them to his table, while the OP is trying to keep Vance from even playing the game with his own friends. Those are completely different takes, and the OP's is both insane and actually more like fascism than anything Vance has said or done.

[@lindarkknight4044]

Exactly this, it's funny how often the people screaming facist seem to practice facism.

[@draco894]

Sorry, you had me in agreement until 2:15 . Please understand the tolerant paradox: In order to tolerant/accepting of others and that other people are different, we inherently must be intolerant of hate filled rhetoric and those who profess it.

[@toddacious07]

@@draco894 Hateful rhetoric and intolerance is present on both sides of all this though, especially since the advent of social media has only exacerbated the polarization of politics (don’t believe me? Just watch any video of Destiny’s take on the father who died during Trump Assassination attempt, it’s EMBARRASSINGLY hateful…). Just because you agree with one side doesn’t mean that side is incapable of the intolerance you see on the other. That’s how tribalism starts. That’s what made families not invite each other to Thanksgiving and Christmas this past year over the freaking election results… Petty BS. And I’m sick of that. If that’s the case, we should all just humble ourselves and try to get along…? No one is perfect, no one is without sin to cast stones. But we can all respectfully disagree with each other like adults and coexist, even with those we fundamentally disagree with. I am Christian and one of the best players I ever DM’d for was a lesbian, non-binary, Wiccan. So not only were they a witch in the game, they were actually one irl too. Even though my beliefs were in complete opposition to theirs, we still set that shit aside to play a fun game of D&D. If Christians and Wiccans can get along enough to game together, I’m sure Republicans/Conservatives and Democrats/Progressives can do the same. That’s my take anyway.

[@draco894]

@toddacious07 I hear you however as a DM I have a player who is trans. I can not abide an apologist for someone in a position of power who spews rhetoric that disparages anyone on the basis something that is not a conscious choice.

[@toddacious07]

@@draco894 if that’s your line in the sand, then it’s your line in the sand and I can respect that. For me, if JD Vance was in my game, I’d tolerate him. Same with Destiny. So long as people can leave their personal out-of-game baggage at the door, I’ll play with anyone willing to be adult enough to do so. If they can’t, then good riddance. I don’t know either personally, so I can’t say for sure if they are inclined to do that for the sake of the table. And since I don’t know, I won’t outright deny the chance to play with either by default, regardless of how hateful they are capable of out-of-game. That’s my line in the sand.

[@draco894]

@@toddacious07 🙄

[@milohilltop3691]

Yes, absolutely. Tolerance is a social contract. Fascists refuse the contract and, as consequence, do not get to benefit from it.

[@norcherister5137]

My absolute best friend of almost 20 years was an avid DM and player (even got "interviewed" for a game that lasted over a year). He was the best friend that called me at 4:00 AM (not his wife) on his way home from a game to tell me he had killed a mature green dragon with a wall spell. He and I always seemed to have opposite approaches to everything, which was fine. It never cased a rift. But in recent years, with the changing political climate, he became more radicalized, started telling me ALL women were happier at home (and by extrapolation shouldn't be allowed to work). That my OPINIONS were wrong. Ranting about Trans people and on and on. It literally shattered my heart but I had to walk away. His misogynistic views made my stomach turn. I've always been a "tom boy" and he's never really seen me as a girl/female I guess is why he spoke so freely. This isn't about religion or background or faith or beliefs. It's about crossing that line and trying to impose your beliefs by force or legislation, on other people. I loved almost everything about him, even his flaws. But I can not abide humans who want to make other humans "less" human. It's not pie. It's not a competition. None of us gets out of this alive. My humble opinion is if you are "okay" with people like that at your table, your perception is they aren't trying to take anything away from YOU or dehumanize YOU. The minute that you see that someone is trying to take away YOUR rights, I'd bet money your views would change.

[@Seority]

If he was really your friend, you should have talked to him about his opinions on trans people. Just dumping a friend because they happen to believe some cringe garbage means you weren't really friends.

[@dahelmang]

@@norcherister5137 I watched this happen overnight to so many people in the other direction. People went absolutely insane over Trump and I could not put up with them, even though I didn't like him. We have seen leftists impose their beliefs on everyone for the last ten years and that's why Trump won.

[@MrGBH]

@@Seority Why are you assuming they didn't?

[@Zenith292]

​@@Seority it's no one's responsibility to deradicalize others.

[@dane3038]

This would be relevant if everyone who the game companies don't want to play their games was like this guy. But that's an extreme and rare case.

[@gystes_]

Adding an ad to the end of this video was...a choice.

[@minimalistmindset3020]

I think it fair to assert that he did not expect this to blow up like this. At its core, he's calling out a high-level gatekeeper. It's not really a political take. Gatekeeping is bad. ...a fact that seems to be getting lost amongst the crowd of reactionaries.

[@Zenith292]

​@@minimalistmindset3020This is an eminently sociopolitical take. Be real.

[@minimalistmindset3020]

@@Zenith292 "Be real"? If listening to what a person actually said, instead of what I assume they said, is not 'real', then I would strive to correct that universal inadequacy. Do not sensationalize this, and instead see the truth of the matter. I understand that he likely has many strong political beliefs, as many people do. Regardless, he did not talk about them. It was clearly not the purpose of the video.

[@Zenith292]

@minimalistmindset3020 Saying that we should welcome people like JD Vance in our community IS taking a political stance. He absolutely talked about his political beliefs. That was the topic of this whole video.

[@robobengt]

@@gystes_ He shouldn't have posted it. It's a garbage take.

[@junderlandgames1186]

Tolerate people, not behavior

[@michaelmcalpine543]

Don't hate people, hate sin.

[@ADBVoiceActing]

"This aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

[@ADBVoiceActing]

@michaelmcalpine543 Ah, but what exactly is "sin"? That's rhetorical, BTW. LOL

[@ShivaTD]

@junderlandgames1186 agree. That's why after 3 warnings I had to ban a long time player from my table for trying to use my game and group discord to prapagandize and fundraise for BLM

[@emessar]

As long as what you are being asked to tolerate isn't the intolerance of others, then sure ...

[@zyre212]

I can have people at my table who disagree with me on things that don't affect anyone's safety. I will not not have someone at my table if their views towards me or other players are bigoted, violent, or otherwise disparaging, because their views *are* affecting the safety of other people. I'm not gonna be friends with someone who wants me dead or at least wishes violence was inflicted on me, on the basis of their ideology, and I shouldn't expect that of anyone.

[@skirwan78]

stop conflating peopel who have different views as yours as nazis or people who want you dead. You're looping everyone you disagree with in as a nazi and a murderer. That's your first problem.

[@this_epic_name]

So do you put people through a purity test before they're allowed to join your table? Or are your decisions on their suitability based on their actions at the table and/or statements they make at the table?

[@omororri]

sounds like the only bigot is you, bigot.

[@actually_a_catt]

@@this_epic_name people usualy play with people they know personally, holmes. this sounds like the hypothetical take of someone who has no friends lol

[@aetherkid]

​@this_epic_name if a guy was friends with Notsees and saying legal immigrants are criminals and eating people's dogs, I wouldn't invite him to my table, even if he was a good player. No bigots allowed in d&d

[@jessewahl6471]

Feed the algorithm. But also, I play weekly with friends who do not share my political views, or my religious/world views. But outside the game we agree to disagree. And at the game table, isn’t the place for such conversations anyway.

[@hodgepodgesyntaxia2112]

It is neither virtuous nor Christian to welcome someone into your circle who is currently and deliberately hurting fellow human beings for professional advancement. Just because you don’t personally experience the harm being done doesn’t make it ‘just politics.’

[@timesup5105]

Who’s hurting fellow humans?

[@DUUDE101]

@@timesup5105 JD Vance and the people who support the policies he's endorsing

[@dahelmang]

​@@DUUDE101you are welcome to hold that opinion, but you don't get to tell someone he can't buy your product because of it.

[@JakobKobberholm]

This would indicate you don't believe the other side has hurt fellow human beings...

[@catglitchess]

@JakobKobblerhelm stop deflecting. Both sides yada yada, but Vance is currently trying to take away my rights. He is currently trying to take everyone’s rights. So shut up, sit down, and think for a moment about which is worse: death, or more death and fascism. I think there’s a clear lesser evil here. And also, most of us hate the democrats too. They don’t do enough.

[@TheSkyrimfreak]

Paradox of tolerance, look it up

[@frostmagemarii]

You don't understand the Paradox of Tolerance and what was being said if you are bringing it up as a counter-argument.

[@darksavior1187]

@@frostmagemarii Why is that? The paradox of tolerance is what DM Lair points out at 2:09-2:18 himself.

[@tonywalker9311]

@@darksavior1187 Nope. You missed it. The paradox of tolerance is that if you are truly tolerant of everyone, including the intolerant, then that's the death of tolerance. In a tolerant society there is no space for intolerance. That's the paradox. I also think that Vance should be allowed to have hobbies and he can keep his pathfinder books, but there's no way he and his beliefs are going to be welcome at my table. He can play whatever he wants with his fascist buddies.

[@PureEvil3D]

@@frostmagemarii They're not the one that misunderstands here. Read what the paradox is. Read it again. Tolerating people who've done terrible things is implicit acceptance of those actions. You tolerate enough people doing terrible things and eventually you get to decide if you tolerate those people doing those terrible things TO you. Where's the line drawn? Is it that you should tolerate people doing terrible things to other people, just not to you? How is that better than not tolerating people that do terrible things at all? Spoiler alert: It's not better, it's just easier for you.

[@ajearthdude8467]

@@PureEvil3D 100$ agree with you

[@kanelawrence1844]

Hey, I think you misunderstand. JD Vance is not some random guy who just happens to have beliefs that don't align with mine. He is actively harming and discriminating AGAINST me, my queer community and several other groups. Inviting that into the game is explicitly harmful and giving people like that a platform, and expecting the people he (and his president) have negatively impacted to just "be more inclusive" is super insensitive. I appreciate the sentiment of your Christian faith being your basis for love and kindness. I have lots of Christian friends and I play DnD with a few of them too. But I don't allow people into my game who are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist. JD Vance is all of those things, blown up even further, due to the fact he is actually passing bills and campaigning against those groups. Conservatives and Christians throwing "inclusivity" back in minority's faces after someone said they shouldn't buy a TTRPG book, when those same minorities are getting job rejections, ousted from their families and the target of REAL exclusion... It's so clearly not the same thing.

[@Sadew_Sadew]

There's a big difference between agreeing to disagree with someone or having different ideas on how to best address housing, food, and healthcare shortages even and disagreeing on people's rights to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. JD Vance has even publicly discussed limiting voting rights of American citizens (though fortunately "only as a thought experiment").

[@ajdembroski7529]

No, he isn't. He's just some guy who happens to have beliefs that don't align with yours.

[@Raycheetah]

@@ajdembroski7529 Victimhood leveraged as socio-political power. Let's see how these people react in four years when they *haven't* all been rounded up and put into gulags, while their standard of living has gone up. =9[.]9=

[@kanelawrence1844]

@@ajdembroski7529 you're right! I believe that I deserve to have human rights, and he simply disagrees. I need to be more accepting towards the people who hate me, because **I** need to show inclusivity and love.

[@ajdembroski7529]

@kanelawrence1844 you are still wrong. You believe the wrong people.

[@KingsNerdCave]

I know me and my friends have differing beliefs, but we all love DnD and always have a great time laughing in goofy situations and fighting monsters. I as a Catholic base my thoughts on each person as an individual and how they have treated me. If there is someone you don't want at your table, I believe that is perfectly valid, no one should be forced to play with people they don't want to be around. But gatekeeping the game and saying X person can't play it at all, is very wrong.

[@jeramiecooper1913]

In my home game, the players have similar political thoughts. This allows pre-game discussion to engage most of the players. It has that advantage, but it can also lead to a long pre-game discussion.

[@dungeonscronics3191]

I’m still like a kid in that sense where if you don’t treat me like a jerk we can play together

[@beschulz0709]

Every time you turn onto "Tolerance Blvd." it is a one-way street.

[@tanyabowers-dean2345]

I do hear and understand your point. However, as author Robert Jones, Jr. said: “We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.” With the current regime, we have moved beyond political disagreements about what is the best way to benefit our citizens and our nation. The current regime is based on obtaining and retaining power based on hatred and attacking others. They have the power to do real harm to people and have already begun to do so. In both the Hebrew and Greek testaments, The Bible enjoins people to oppose oppression and confront oppressors. I believe that this is the most loving thing to do for both those being oppressed and their oppressors. “Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.” (Isaiah 1:17)

[@dahelmang]

Nobody is taking anyone's right to exist away. It's that kind of fake news that has led us to be so divided.

[@Easttowest45]

How is anyone's right to exist being infringed? Point out the trains and camps to me because I don't see them anywhere.

[@JakobKobberholm]

Ironically, lots of people would say the exact same thing about the people who just left the government. You can't have one set of standards for your beliefs and another for the opposition.

[@JonBondgsr]

@@Easttowest45 you can't reason with someone that lives in a different reality than the real one.

[@daneprentiss8359]

@@Easttowest45 11 million immigrants are about to be herded into camps. Over 1.6 million transgender citizens no longer legally exist. Women can no longer get abortions, even to save their lives, and are dying in the hospital surrounded by doctors who legally can't treat them. If you cannot see what's happening, that is 100% by your own choice.

[@JonBarton19]

I agree with the general sentiment, but there's a difference between "We disagree on some politics (Like, funding X Initiative vs funding Y Initiative, etc.)" and the "Politics" of this sentiment. With Vance, his personal worldview (That is what is driving his "Politics") is that some of my best friends (Including some of my players) don't deserve the right to live. Fundamentally, Vance and many in power in his party are fundamentally fascistic. At that point, no we should not welcome them into the community. Any community that allows fascists is one that will be taken over by fascists. Accepting political differences stop when one party wants to kill those I care about, whether it be through direct violence, financial isolation, or forced relocation. I have had friends who have had to leave their lifelong homes because of the policies brought forth by his party. This isn't a political issue, this is a fundamental moral issue.

[@ColeBallad]

A lot of people don't get the paradox of tolerance. To be tolerant, you have to be intolerant of intolerance.

[@JonBarton19]

@ColeBallad Yeah, and it's not even just "You have to 'Like' trans, gay, poc, etc." Like, yeah, I think it's kinda shitty if you don't like them, but the bar is don't advocate for their demise. That's the bar. It's such an easy bar to be like, "I don't get them, and they kinda bother me, but as a reasonable human being, I'm gonna live and let live. " The bar is to not try to eradicate groups of people just because they are different to you. I get the sentiment of "I want ttrpgs to be inclusive to everyone, and we shouldn't gate keep the hobby because of someone's political or religious beliefs," But, it's not gatekeeping to say dangerous people who actively wish harm on a large portion of the community should not be allowed in. I also get you literally can't stop someone from playing this game, but you can absolutely make them recognize they aren't allowed in the broader community until they clean up their act.

[@SnowWolf9999]

@@JonBarton19 " I also get you literally can't stop someone from playing this game, but you can absolutely make them recognize they aren't allowed in the broader community until they clean up their act." THIS!!!------- And for the people that don't know, this statement is actually months old and it wasn't just some random DM that said this, it was from a higher up designer at Paizo, who after Vance was using the fact he played Pathfinder for "cool cred" wanted to make it clear that they don't want their game associated with people pushing fascist ideologies.

[@SnowWolf9999]

" Any community that allows fascists is one that will be taken over by fascists" This reminds me of the Punk scene in the 80s early 90s when there was a big push by Neo-N@zis (who already had a smaller punk scene of their own) trying to get accepted into broader punk scene/clubs and many clubs basically were telling people "If you see a N@zi show up, kick their F-ing A$$ so they know they're not welcome, because if you don't, they will bring their friends, who will then bring their friends, and before we know it all our clubs will be N@zi clubs"

[@EpicEmpires-pb7zv]

You make a good point. 'Any community that allows fascists is one that will be taken over by fascists.' It's important to mention that many fascists, racists and people with other extreme viewpoints changed those viewpoints because of their association with people who had more moderate views. There are some wonderful stories of neo-nazis and klu klux klan members completely changing because of people including them and showing them kindness, patience and love. One of the problems with the internet and social media is it pushes people to extremes and they can become surrounded by others with the same extreme viewpoints. At some point we need to find a way to get people involved in more inclusive, moderate communities. That's not ignoring that extremism is dangerous and can end up with destruction of property, assault, murder etc. But I also think we need to be willing to reach out to others and show them kindness. It can lead to a good place.

[@Bearinthewoods88]

Luke, thanks for your input! I have found myself so disturbed by the recent politicizing of TTRPG’s by the companies that make them. Some of them have stances I agree with, and sometimes I don’t, but a large part of my enjoyment comes from disconnecting from real world politics for a few hours and playing with friends who are men and women of various political persuasions, ethnicities, religious beliefs, etc. Its never been an issue, because we were all enjoying the game, were respectful if we had conversations outside of the game about those topics, and we all had the opportunity to learn from one another and challenge our worldviews, and sometimes even change our minds.

[@GutisFive]

I'm all for building bridges but also agree with not sharing a table with someone that i don't like/clash. My problem with the tweet was the "you are not allowed to play the game" aspect. That is BS, TTRPG are for everyone, just make your own table.

[@TheRealComboacer]

@@GutisFive I'm so upset that I had to scroll so far to find this take 😅 because I 100% agree! No one is saying that we have to play with people we don't like, just that we can't gatekeep the hobby SOLELY BECAUSE we don't like some of the people who want to try it out. It's such a bad look, and I'm so disappointed that people are blowing this out of proportion

[@SuperGoose42]

This is the best take I've heard on this. Respectful disagreement

[@bbarrett726]

And he has made this point in previous videos. Sometimes players aren't contributing to an enjoyable experience and need to be told this. But even if the group decides they have to remove this person from the group, that doesn't mean they should be excluded from the hobby like this Twitter post is saying should happen.

[@Skellybeans]

So much this, we can choose which table we play at as players and as DMs who is welcome at our tables, but we don't get to choose who can or can't pick up our hobbies. If we disagree with someone due to politics or religion or whatever else and we decide to leave the hobby due to toxic people that is fine but we don't get to dictate if others can participate in the hobby or not, that is their choice, but we most definitely do not need to accept or tolerate them at a table especially if they have shown how quickly they ready to attack others across ideological aisles because unfortunately there are too many people who can't separate their beliefs and opinions from the game table and often it's the person already making a big stink about someone with blue hair or whatever. No time have I ever went to a table to play or sign up for a spot online and was asked about my identity, politics, religion, or any of that because most of the time people don't care and are just there to have fun and enjoy the game. A person could and I could walk away because that table wouldn't be for me. Besides it's like why would a die hard conservative republican want to play with a bunch of woke left liberal democrats? Unless the person genuinely didn't care about that and just wanted to play, but like I feel those who are eager to bash or proselytize aren't going to have the patience to interact with someone they disagree which I think is unfair for the person lacking that patience because empathy first step is just learning that the other person is just that a person, not a monster or establishment or ideology or culture, they are just a person who enjoys a game. It is unfair because the one playing already gets that others at the table are just people, the one looking in ready to attack still wants to be divided and are so unhappy they don't want anyone to be happy. But that person, I wouldn't let them at my table because they want to stay in their echo chamber, they want to look for dissent and disagreement, prove who is right and who is wrong and unfortunately for them to be "right" means for others to be hurt, feel unsafe, feel scared. So I don't care if that person doesn't feel welcomed, they aren't welcome they can find somewhere else to play if they want to stay in their ways. I am not there to educate or teach or inspire them to change how they treat others, if that is something they haven't figured how to do when they were 5 and now are a grown adult why should I teach them to be better as if they don't already know what they are doing is wrong but they don't care because going back to empathy they don't see the other players as people, the see them as ideologies, as culture wars, as a "mind virus" and I play games with people, so if they can't see that why should I let them join?

[@VoxRatio]

I don’t think he’s saying you should accept someone who you clash with. I think he’s saying some people are able to not be polarizing at the table despite having a different set of beliefs. And those people despite a different set of beliefs, shouldn’t be barred from a table let alone a game.

[@damiencullen7060]

Amen. Thanks for having the guts to say what you believe and why.

[@Orca1453]

I was willing to hear you out for more nuance. But based on the comments you are liking, we disagree. I would never allow my players to think they were in an accepting and open place, while one of them actively or passively wants them dead. “The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance.” I hope you reflect on this, the kind of channel you will end up with is very different from the one you have now.

[@Regfife]

But does Vance actually want anyone dead?

[@Orca1453]

@ I don’t know Vance and I won’t speak for him. That’s why nowhere in my post did I say anything like that. You lack the ability to construct a real argument or even engage with me.

[@Regfife]

"while one of them actively or passively wants them dead." I thought this was referring to Vance. Other commenters indicated as much in their statements. Did you mean genuinely violent people, because DM Lair said "Anyone who treats others with kindness and respect, and contribute to the over-all beneift of the game, and everyone else at the table, you are welcome at my games." That would seem to exclude those who have an "active or passive" death wish for their fellow players.

[@garhent]

@@Orca1453 You are implying some rather dark ideas from the current administrations. Of course you are going to get feedback. At least stand up for your ideas rather than cowardly back away from them.

[@neobushidaro]

Vance fails your rule He actively harms others He is not a help to the community because the community includes many groups he actively harms. There is no tolerance for those who intentionally and willfully harm other and celebrate that harm. You're either very blind to who Vance is, or you're not about the rule of treat others how you want to be treated. You're not about Mathew 25:40 Vance is not welcome, nor those that would cheer on putting their boots on necks.

[@szymonlechdzieciol]

You cannot welcome someone or not, in hobby that is made from independent libertarian organised tables.

[@ShivaTD]

@@neobushidaro Wrong

[@garhent]

What do you mean by "actively harms others"? Could you explain in what ways you believe Vance’s actions specifically harm others? Are there actions or behaviors that could be considered harmful in some contexts but not in others? What criteria define "helping the community"? How do we determine if someone is beneficial to a community, especially when there are differing opinions about what is helpful or harmful? Do you think that even individuals who have made mistakes or caused harm in some areas can still contribute positively in other ways? Do you believe that disagreement equals harm? Can someone disagree with a group or individual, yet still respect their rights and dignity? What if Vance's views are rooted in a different perspective or cultural context? Does that make them inherently harmful? What does the "rule of treating others how you want to be treated" mean to you in this context? Does the rule suggest that we should only treat others as we would want to be treated in every circumstance, or is it about finding a balance between compassion and accountability? If someone feels that Vance’s actions are harmful, how should they respond in a way that aligns with that rule? What does Matthew 25:40 teach us, and how does it apply to this situation? Matthew 25:40 speaks about caring for the marginalized. How do you interpret this teaching in relation to Vance's actions? Do we have an obligation to treat someone with kindness and respect, even if we disagree with their views or actions? Could it be possible to support Vance’s freedom to express his views while also standing against certain harmful behaviors? Can we create a space for constructive dialogue and growth while still holding people accountable for harmful actions? If Vance were willing to acknowledge harm and work to change, should he be excluded, or should there be room for transformation? What would you suggest as an alternative way to address harm in the community? If Vance’s actions are seen as harmful, what steps should be taken to prevent that harm without resorting to exclusion? How can we engage with people we disagree with while still upholding the values we believe in?

[@skywardocarina1]

No. If you don't believe I should have basic human rights because of who I am, I'm not playing with you. There's a difference between disagreeing on some political things and disagreeing that people should be given their rights.

[@Grimmlocked]

What rights are you afraid of losing?

[@Silverwolf0080]

@skywardocarina1 Litterally noone thinks that. Get out of your own way.

[@mineflameblade8788]

Hear hear Skyward.

[@lanefunai4714]

So, when are you kicking out the people who pushed for businesses to close during 2020?

[@CaseyWilkesmusic]

@@Silverwolf0080how can you speak for everyone? Discrimination and bigotry in society bleeds into people hobbies.

[@arcady0]

Inclusivity of people who are different is one thing. Bringing in people who are hatching or advocating plans to invade the countries of some of my players, taking away the rights of some of my other players, and breaking up families of people I know is a whole other thing. Even if I think those plans will go nowhere, I don't feel it worthwhile to welcome in people who have placed communities I am either part of or connected to as real life risk. This can all sound theoretical and fall victim to 'both sides' dialog for people who are not personally at risk or don't know folks personally at risk. But it's not that, and there are real dangers involved for a lot of folks now. A core Christian value is empathy - and once one gets empathy involved, you can see dangers are real and people are terrified as a result.

[@Elemenopi23]

We have a "no RL politics + no RL religion discussion" rule at our tables, and this stuff is a non factor.

[@Siltoneous]

The utter naivety of this article, and the complete lack of historical understanding regarding fascists like Trump and Vance appall me. Do as you wish, but I won't be part. I've left both the channel and your Patreon. Good day.

[@Seority]

You won't be missed

[@PureEvil3D]

Tolerance in action, folks. Ok, now for the punch line: Tell me how what you're doing right here is ANY DIFFERENT from what the tweet in question was doing? "Your opinion is different and I don't like it, so go somewhere else." You do not have the moral high ground here. You are not the better person.

[@ricardojuanlopeznaranjo6651]

Yes he is. Just by no being a Fascist you are a better person. It's really easy

[@EbonyRubberWolf]

@@PureEvil3D Ah yes, it's indeed a 'better person' position to speak in favor and defense of a man that wants to bring widespread upheaval of lives by denying rights and autonomy to swaths of our population. If someone says to a crowd 'Nazis are bad' and someone else shouts 'you can't say that, I thought you guys were tolerant', guess what? You've found the Nazi.

[@detectivelizard9532]

I don't know why you would even bother defending JD Vance's rights to play a tabletop game when he's the same guy ranting about Haitians eating people's pets, like what do you have to gain from doing this? Was it to plug in your Kickstarter? Was it worth it? I say this as someone who doesn't even care if Vance plays Pathfinder, that's his own business but damn man. What a weird hill to die on just to appear tolerant.

[@Shadeogray1113]

This is why I always say before session 1 to ALL my players. "No politics, no religion, and no controversial real life conversations at my table." If any of them bring it up. I give them a warning then the second time is the boot.

[@PureEvil3D]

The whole "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" mentality is admirable, but the problem is, JD Vance and his boss HAVE done unto others, are STILL doing unto others, and will continue to do unto others for the next four years, and what they're doing is reprehensible. It's not the political stance that's the problem; it's what's being done in the name of that political stance. Would you invite someone to your game who built a career on trash talking RPG players in general, and GMs who run RPGs in specific? What if they said they think anyone who creates content online relating to RPGs should have their channels shut down? If you would still invite them and they started talking like that at your game, even if they didn't know anything else about you except that you were running the session that day, would you invite them back? Someone in the comments down here mentioned that it was the "you're not allowed to play this game" aspect of the post that was the problem. Sure these distasteful people can play, but if they have trouble finding games because they show up once and aren't invited back, well maybe the problem isn't with the other people at the game.

[@blahbliff9726]

Some things must matter. To say 'all is the same' is not faith, it's nihilism. Fascism is to be intentionally for the death of others, which is evil.

[@kyhowton6229]

What're you trying to say?

[@AdaonACalaSaca]

@@kyhowton6229 That in Order to actually live a free live, you need to stop those who would take away that freedom from everyone but a small group in power.

[@taigenraine]

@blahbliff9726 Please explain how the vice president is a fascist. A man who fought for the country that gives you the right to exercise the very speech you are employing to defame him. Who went through the democratic process to be elected first by Ohio to the senate then by America as a whole to vice president. This is why free speech is so important, so people can witness the most vile of statements and make their own judgements as to it's value. Your speech, sir or madam, is truely vile. I hope you wake up one day and realize the abhorrent nature of the information bubble you are trapped within.

[@godsamongmen8003]

Actually Fascism is an economic system involving state ownership of most businesses. The New York Times called Mussolini Italy's man of tomorrow. And if you want words like that to actually mean something, you're going to have to stop throwing them around at everyone outside your small group.

[@anonymousscience4095]

@@godsamongmen8003 >”Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.”

[@AegonTV]

This is the Paradox of Intolerance in a 3-min video. I will never actively include someone who I know believes that the majority of people at my table shouldn't have the same rights or existence as they do. It is not intolerant to reject intolerance.

[@jasonhull8075]

I agree, though in my experience (over 30 years at the table), that type of person would choose to not play at an inclusive table to begin with.

[@misterdad490]

Yes, if you are white and a player who wants to play with you doesn't believe thar white people should exist, have rights, or what have you, that would make sense. BUT would they be trying to get into your table? "Don't believe that jews should exist in Isreal," and you as the DM have a Jewish family member or more in Isreal. It would make sense to not invite them back. These are both extreme cases but could happen, and no one would blame you for not having those people at your table.

[@szymonlechdzieciol]

See that's what you get for using tolerance as term for both value/virtue and for general notion of keeping social contract. Every society is intolerant for those breaching social contract/social norms and tolerant to those keeping them. Both liberal and jihadi

[@brentatbluenovaproductions2136]

Or you could, just spit-balling here, welcome someone with different beliefs and by the actions of being friendly, inclusive, and show them that their preconceived notions aren't meshing with reality and get them to change their mind, even in a small step at a time? You may not change the mind of a hardline bigot set in their ways, but maybe, JUST maybe try and show someone who isn't full bore "Archie Bunker" that we all have something to learn about disregarding initial bias and showing we can all learn acceptance and to judge others on their moral character and not their ethnic, religious, or political beliefs?

[@szymonlechdzieciol]

@@brentatbluenovaproductions2136 Lefists be like: we don't have obligation to educate people about our positions, values and life experiences. Google it. Leftists when people embrace right wing populism: angry pikachu face.

[@ryno4ever433]

You can choose to tolerate fascists if you want, just know they would not extend the same courtesy to you if you happened to be a part of one of the groups they dislike. Tolerating people like this only gives them space to harm you. I urge you to reconsider your views.

[@dsproductions19]

So, don't tolerate the Pathfinder people for being fascist and trying to take away his books? Okay, I'll just not play their game, then.

[@Disti23]

You shouldn't think too hard on strawmans.

[@Apeiron242]

You don't know who is actually fascist or even know what fascism is. It ain't Vance.

[@Xaxp]

It doesnt matter what your politics are or what you believe. If its not relevant to the game, then it stays out of the game. If youre gonna try to bring it in and the other players arent cool with it, you can find a different table.

[@marioaf27]

You missed the mark on this one. People can believe what they want, but can't expect to do just whatever with no consequences. I wouldn't want to play in a table with someone who actively works to harm or violate human rights, and I wouldn't force my players either.

[@erez87xp]

Disagreeing on what burger to get is not the same as agreeing whether certain people should be allowed to exist.

[@taigenraine]

If children stop getting permanent medical alterations they are too young to consent to, how does that stop you from existing?

[@godsamongmen8003]

The people who throw this line around act as if everyone outside of their small group is a genocidal maniac. These same idiots say "silence is violence" and "words are violence." Sorry pal, but everybody's done listening to the boy who cried Literally Hitler.

[@anonymousscience4095]

⁠@@taigenraine 98+% of people who get sex reassignment surgery do not regret their decision. 98% satisfaction rate for any surgery or medical intervention is amazing. And that 2% can be drastically lowered through good legislation and improved doctor training, rather than resulting to the hysterics of “oh, but think of the children!”. And children aren’t getting elective sex reassignment surgeries. They are getting hormone blockers until they are old enough to have the surgeries. The Fox News strategy of “keep them enraged to keep them engaged (regardless of the facts)” strategy is working it seems.

[@Buzzerker_1775]

Good take. Congratulations on being a mature adult

[@Sadew_Sadew]

Hi Luke, I'm glad to hear that your beliefs have led you to be a welcoming and compassionate person. Unfortunately, not everyone interprets Christianity this way and increasingly in America some people are using it as a sword to harm others. I think there's some leeway and people should be given grace and allowed to agree to disagree, but when people are disparaging and threatening others (especially from a place of political privilege) how should people react? I've met people who say my marriage (between a White man and Hispanic woman) should no longer be federally recognized and is a states' rights issue, because of their (flawed imo) interpretation of Christianity on the topic of interracial marriage. Should I treat that as "just politics"? I don't think so 😕

[@Sadew_Sadew]

Before someone asks: I'm thinking of Mike Braun's (then Senator now Governor in Indiana) original statements on the topic immediately after Roe v. Wade, which while he has walked them back, others still support.

[@garycastaldo7692]

There is a difference. They are being rude to you. So no you shouldn't. VP Vance is married to a woman of Indian desert and has never said Mexicans are bad. He dies belive if you broke a law getting here, you should be sent back. This isn't rude, Mexico does the same thing. Most countries do.

[@Sadew_Sadew]

@@garycastaldo7692 Nah, they're being rude politically, I dunno any of them personally (but have later had now-former personal friends defend the concept). There is way more to Vance than his beliefs on immigration.

[@gabejohanns]

Thank you. Boundaries are important and I refuse to move my boundaries to capitulate to a group of people that have come to power because they were effective at ginning up fear of the already marginalized groups in our society. All these people saying that they are righteous by loving the people who have hate in their heart, or at least have used hate and fear to come to power, make me ache for a time when everyone could know what true compassion for your fellow man looks and feels like.

[@garycastaldo7692]

​@Sadew_Sadew did you know Biden deported more then Obama? Obama deported WAY more then Trump. It isn't rude to say you came here illegally you'll be sent home. Part of the problem is media (ALL of it, Fox, Newsmax, CNN, and so on) lie and spin. Once Trump gave a speech was NOT talking about Mexicans, he was taking about MS-13 a Mexican gang. Yet the liberal media said he was taking about Mexicans. Watch the speeches yourself, read the transcripts yourself don't take the media. I don't like Trump, but I hated Biden and Harris more for good reasons. You may not like someone, then don't play. But a lead game designer and an executive at a company shouldn't post that, because good easy to talk your business.

[@aaronclift]

Since when is fighting against tyrants (like JD Vance and Donald Trump) who actively use their position to oppress others a bad thing? I thought that was one of central themes of most TTRPG games.

[@alexisglaab2572]

This is what gets me. Like, what kind of stories are the fascists or bootlickers even playing to NOT get this?

[@aaronclift]

@@alexisglaab2572it’s the same motivation in every story: the bad guys either use insane logic to justify their behavior or they know that they’re wrong but don’t care. Sometimes it’s a mix of both.

[@nuntiusmortis8976]

I think this might be a case of people seemingly talking about the same issue, but not in reality. On one side, yes, people should not be excluded form the hobby because of differing opinions, and we should be against gate-keepers, On the other side how do we treat those with loud opinion that exclude others (not just from the game, but from society or even existence)? This is not the same discussion, no matter how much overlapping there is.

[@BethanySaldana]

The timing makes me wonder if this in response to facists not being allowed in a game you were in and left? Normally I'd agree with you, and generally I do. However, if someone's ideologies harm someone else at the table, then it's going to be very difficult to play together.

[@georgeyoung2684]

I mostly agree when the different opinion you’re talking about is economic policy or a favourite sports team, but when it’s ’this type of person shouldn’t be allowed to exist’, to say we should be tolerant of that is an endorsement of said opinion. Remember, all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing

[@chadcaughmann7898]

The “shouldn’t be allowed to exist” comment could be referring to several different things. In general, it’s an incredibly small % of extremists on both ends of the political spectrum. It’s also a phrase that has been obfuscated to gaslight others that don’t agree with their world views. Why? Because it’s a very sensationalized tactic deemed to discredit others.

[@darthmalicex4118]

Who is saying that certain people shouldn't be allowed to exist? That's the craziest strawman I have ever heard.

[@commonviewer2488]

It's not about disagreeing with someone's beliefs. People from all walks of life are welcome. We've got a problem when one is actively making life worse for others. When one person decides that others are not deserving of rights, of being treated like people, that *cannot* be ignored the same way you pay no mind to if someone prays at a different temple than you.

[@FckYou-d5h]

And when the other side lies about what the other belieives and does so while also actively making things economically worse FOR EVEYONE the other side is likely to dismiss their opinions and objections out of hand. Maybe if you Lefty weirdos would stop lying we would actually take your critisim seriously. Otherwise, why should we enguage with the disingenuous?

[@dsproductions19]

So, the person from the post is the one you take issue with, since they were actively trying to take away someone's ability to play a game?

[@paulunderhill550]

Just in case no one knows, the guy who made the post is the number 3 man at paizo

[@chaddemink7731]

God bless you, Luke! I agree 100%!

[@ScoutCain-gz4oc]

I'm a trans woman, and I simply won't play ttrpgs with people who don't believe in upholding my rights, that's a major part of what "politics" and "religion" means to me. I literally won't feel safe otherwise, this video gives off the strong impression that your perspective is really skewed.

[@treybilbo3385]

he 100% voted for daonlad trump, hes a brainwashed christian

[@dynestis2875]

Okay man, so what you really want is to force other people to go along with your imagination. You're the exact kind of person who claims to be "inclusive and tolerant" yet immediately flips his shit the moment someone does not agree with your views.

[@XiaosaGaming]

I'm Trans woman too but I guess am too different, I don't play trans characters, and I certainly don't make it everyone issue, I try to avoid that stuff cause am there to have fun not project. What I can call you is soft. Because at the end of the day you there to play and have in an imaginary world, I dealt with World of Darkness which is basically our world but much more horrifying etc and many other tabletop games. When I have people come to my table we discuss what we want before hand and if everyone agrees then cool, if 3 out of 4 people want something maybe that 4th might want to find somewhere else to fit in, my job isn't to make things all sunshine and rainbows, couldn't care less, treat everyone equally and fairly and I will push buttons if I need too because I ain't afraid of people feelings but I will respect aspects if they been discussed and agreed upon. Cause if someone started shouting at me for doing something in a tabletop game that we agreed on was fine and suddenly its not fine then there simply the door right there.

[@Ragnarok222R]

​@@dynestis2875so basically what im getting from you is: "I refuse to respect you and the struggles you face in life, YOU'RE intolerant for not putting up with my BS." Maybe try and realize, you aren't the center of the universe. Just because someone is being mean to you doesn't mean you aren't doing something to deserve it.

[@kdolo1887]

That's fine. I don't play with trans people that demand we make the story about their trans struggle.

[@TheFroschlurch]

I think your point is ignoring the paradox of tolerance

[@backcountry164]

Which is apparently the newest talking point of the intolerant left...

[@frostmagemarii]

You don't understand the Paradox of Tolerance and what was being said if you are bringing it up as a counter-argument.

[@arrow24444]

@@frostmagemariiDude you really don’t get the idea do you. You’re literally just spamming this comment whenever someone brings up this idea.

[@dahelmang]

Stopping people from messing with kids isn't intolerant.

[@catglitchess]

@dahelmang what about taking away my right to take my meds, because how dare I be born the wrong sex. And likely other meds, like my anti-psychotic drugs, anti-anxiety, and anti-ADHD drugs? Because we all know Trump just LOVES people who are struggling with mental health :))))))))

[@DrakesHobbiesAndGames]

Sorry to say I disagree, this is the lesson the “First they came for…” story is to teach us. ❤

[@KennanW]

Of course the guy bullshitting about being a Christian and treating others with love doesn't care about what anyone actually does in life as long as they can bro out at the D&D table.

[@Notsogoodguitarguy]

"Recently I logged onto Twitter" - there was your first mistake, Luke! xD

[@skirwan78]

because you should hide in safe spaces and echo chambers? that's not how the world works. you want to surrender spaces (like twitter) over to peope and go hide in a box, go ahead. but that's a mistake.

[@treybilbo3385]

@@skirwan78 surrender twitter? the ceo fo twitter actively silences people and did heil hitler salutes on the world stage as the president was inaugurated. Twitter is a safe space only for conservatize people

[@BootsAndKatz]

Twitter is dead. All that is left is an undead abomination.

[@EpicEmpires-pb7zv]

This is, unfortunately, a very pertinent point. Twitter or 'X' as it is now called, is intentionally trying to create as much controversy as possible. Elon Musk and other users with large followings are using AI to make posts on a range of topics that will inflame people. The objective is to generate more traffic so they can sell more ads. It's quite sad that this is the way media works in the modern world. When I was a young man news media was all about being accurate and writing or reporting a story inaccurately would get you fired.

[@kgeo2686]

Yea it's a mean scary place!!!

[@bobboulden]

You're either opposed to fascism or you condone it. There isnt some enlightened middle ground where marginalized people are forced to play nice with those who seek their destruction.

[@wastingmylifeaway4898]

Nobody is forced to have Vance at their tables. He is allowed to have a hobby. Get over yourself, you are not the arbiter of who can and cannot play a god damned *game*

[@dahelmang]

@@bobboulden since there aren't any actual fascists involved then it's not a problem. Plenty of totalitarians on the Left though, as we have seen over the last ten years.

[@bobboulden]

@@wastingmylifeaway4898 Vance and other pigs like him can play the game if they want to, but they'll either be playing it with other fascists, or people too dumb to notice fascism when it's right in front of them. The thing with roleplaying games is that people use their real-world values to inform how they play. Most of us don't wanna play with someone who brings fascist beliefs to the table. If you think I'm being a crybaby, or that I'm full of myself, then you either don't know enough about fascism, or you are just a fascist. So either educate yourself, or go away!

[@szymonlechdzieciol]

of course there is political compass is full of various government ideas filling space between fascism and liberal democracy, not to mention plenty ideologies lying beyond this line.

[@MrYac-ie8ie]

or option 3 which most of you take is to just not have a damn clue what fascism even means.

[@robertl1579]

You are right, but only, "If you treat people with kindness and respect". That's just the thing. Vance has allied themselves and supports an ideology that does not treat people with kindness and respect. You may have missed the fact that a bishop just cited scripture in pleading with his boss to embrace kindness and respect. I don't think that bishop would've done that if they didn't have serious concerns about kindness and respect. So Vance can go turn in his RPG books, and I will not be playing with anyone who supports that harmful, inhumane, vindictive ideology that refuse to be informed. First time I've ever replied to a KZbin video.

[@carpedm9846]

@@robertl1579 I think Luke here knows exactly what Vance's deal is. He is not so stupid that he is honestly thinking "vance is just a random guy and this is like disagreeing over tax rates". And if he is not that stupid, the only other explanation is that he is siding with vance's positions, especially suspicious referencing "there are people in my table who would disagree with me for my views". He's just doing the old "its not that Im a fascist, its just that I think people should not be mean to fascists and I never talk about fascists having any flaws". Its just that he is 6-7 years late to the party and people are openly nazis now. Sad to see him go down that route. Wonder if there was payment involved.

[@robertl1579]

​@@carpedm9846 He didn't explicitly say it, though I'm suspicious. I'm learning that many voted the way they did because they weren't informed or believed the spin. I think a rational compassionate individual would change their tune if they learned that Vance admitted to lying about Haitians eating dogs and cats for political gain, for example. Those comments and support for them led directly to persecution of innocent people and upended their lives for political gain.

[@Seority]

Luke wasn't talking about Vance specifically but the negative attitude that people have against others with political differences

[@Theinstrument_Mayonaise]

@@carpedm9846please learn what a fascist is because that ideology is more in line with modern liberal ideology that conservative ideology

[@JmsEllis14]

Luke, most of your takes are pretty spot-on...but you're way off base here my dude. As others have mentioned, the Paradox of Tolerance applies here. Your argument seems to be that 'as long as it doesn't affect me I'm fine with it' is exactly the kind of sentiment that allows bad people to continue doing bad things. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

[@sportybrian]

It's one thing to say "I'll play with people or a different religion" - that's really not controversial. It's another thing to say "I'll play with the person that has made it their life's goal to suppress my religion" - if you have no sympathy or understanding for people being unwilling to say that, you really have lived a very sheltered life.

[@nikcantsnipe]

@@sportybrian that's a thing people say. I doubt most people would knowingly play with a known jihadist. What's that guys? Now you won't play with a different religion? Everyone has a line and his reply fails to examine how cruel some of these people have been. Also, I like how when someone does the roman salute, it is just him expressing himself but when someone is upset on social media about something we need to take it super seriously and take a strong stance guys!

[@catglitchess]

@nikcantsnipe if it’s a Roman salute, why don’t you do it in front of your boss? In front of your mother? In front of your mentor? What would they say about you?

[@nikcantsnipe]

@catglitchess you understand I'm implying Elon is a nazi and everyone's dismissing what he's done, right? Or does everyone here have a reading disability? I'm literally pointing out the hypocrisy of this video. In the name of inclusion we have to make a video about this "serious" topic because someone was upset about a douchebag and put our good Christian foot down but we refer to freedom of speech when its people in positions of power.

[@Ragnarok222R]

​@@nikcantsnipe I'm gonna be real with you dude, your first comment was a bit hard to follow. I had to go over it a couple of times.

[@williamerickson520]

@@nikcantsnipe What Elon did was NOT that salute. That salute goes straight forward with hand completely flat. What Elon did was put his hand to his heart, throw his arm to the side with his fingers curled. Not the same thing.

[@CaseyWilkesmusic]

I agree that saying an entire group of people should be excluded from a hobby because of their political beliefs is over the top. However, if someone in your group actively believes outside of the table that human rights are negotiable, not supporting that and actively discluding that type of thought is not over the top. Actively disavowing the actions of people who violate human rights and - perhaps even saying that there’s not room for that at the table - is reasonable

[@Regfife]

What human rights does Vance actually want to take away? Specifics please, no exeggerated talking points.

[@anidiotplayslivestream5206]

Luke, I say this respectfully, as somebody who has enjoyed your content for a while - the paradox of intolerance matters. For those of you reading this who don't know what that is, it's the idea that a truly tolerant society must reserve the right to reject people who they have cause to believe will practice / spread intolerance. By accepting people who subscribe to the MAGA mindset, we legitimize their famously intolerant viewpoints. I am a Christian as well - and while I lean liberal in a lot of my politics, there are some areas where I think the conservative point of view is just as valid if not moreso. The problem isn't not being able to tolerate people who *just* think differently; the problem is that there is a large population of people who think differently to the point of thinking themselves superior to those they differ from, and who have been empowered and emboldened to take action against those of us who think differently from them. Gatekeeping isn't a bad thing if there are in fact monsters outside the castle.

[@BellamyVic]

The paradox of intolerance matters, which is ironic what you wrote after that. Some people really can't reflect on themselves

[@anidiotplayslivestream5206]

@BellamyVic would you mind enlightening me on how that's true? Because I realize I'm biased in favor of myself, but I don't understand where you're seeing the inconsistency in what I said. The MAGA crowd has, for a long time now, promoted intolerant ideologies and (while in power) taken action to impact the people they consider beneath them. For the sake of the rest of us, then, the Paradox would say we need to reject these people and their ideology wherever we might find it. We cannot fight intolerance by accepting it; we have to shun it, cut it away, when we recognize it.

[@Rikxvis]

You do realize that "the MAGA mindset" won by a landslide? You don't need to accept anybody, you are the one outside of the castle!

[@LB_adventurer]

well said.. and whatever happened to people with a conservative set of values like this? You can be conservative and not full of hate.. i don't know what is wrong with all these MAGA people.... but the world fought an entire war against these types of people... and here they are again building internment camps and preparing to imprison millions of their so called undesirables.. doing it all right in front of the American people and yet... the people of America are doing nothing.. instead they get angry about a book publisher telling the hate filled VP (JD Vance) to give back some books.... talk about having their priories backwards

[@Theinstrument_Mayonaise]

Please realize most people who believe in make America great again aren’t just a bunch of hate filled people but people who want what they think is best for America. Can you honestly say that you think the Democratic Party was going in the right direction. Most voted in rejecting of modern liberal politics not because they hate people.

[@JeffsGameBox]

I made a video along much the same lines. I'm guessing your KZbin analytics on this are probably more bonkers than mine by quite a bit. I'm a "New Age" guy, but I espouse basically the same principles when it comes to kindness and acceptance as long as my players aren't vocal bigots at my table. I have too many friends, family, etc to allow those who would do harm to others to just casually hang out at my game with said family. That said, good for you. What works at your table may not work at mine. As long as people leave politics and religion at the door, let's game. I admire you standing up for what you believe in. Good job. Edits: phone autocorrect errors.

[@Michael_Azrael]

Don't really comment much, but seeing the cancer in this section does make me want to say something. There is a difference between "I don't want him at my table" and "He's not allowed to enjoy the hobby". The oh-so-tolerant crowd, that wants inclusivity and safety and all that sure do like to go full gatekeeper the moment you aren't within their sphere of acceptable beliefs. Seeing a lot of people complain about how they wouldn't feel safe at the table, and how he's representative of the MAGA ideology, as if over half the voting population in the country is somehow the problem. That said, I'm not actually opposed to proper implementation of gatekeeping. I think tourism ruins hobbies and fandoms, and companies have difficulty in differentiating their consumer base from loud voices on social media. However, when one of the most important figures at Paizo says something like this, that's akin to the company speaking out against their own consumer base, against the people that made them successful and capable of having a voice to speak on whatever issues they like. Gatekeeping your own table or the section of the community you exist in is a bit different to a high-ranking employee of a company outright telling a large swathe of the country you aren't welcome to even buy our products, let alone play our game. But hey, maybe people will take to heart what was said. Don't give money to people or companies that hate you. Don't support their products or policies. Don't give them free advertising. If WOTC and Paizo want to go that route, then I don't think there's anything wrong with looking for alternatives, or making your own systems, and letting them die out. After all "fascists" aren't welcome in the hobby, whatever that word even means anymore.

[@troybarnesgcc]

If you want to say that hating fascism is just as bad as actually implementing fascism at the national level in America, you're welcome to that opinion, but that's a weak argument in my opinion. Saying "I don't want powerful people who are actively trying to harm people I love through bigoted public policy to be in this space" is not an inclusivity problem. When people talk about inclusivity, they're by and large speaking to immutable characteristics like race or sexual orientation. They're not talking about protecting those who believe that certain members of our society deserve to be deported, arrested, or simply denied basic rights like medical treatment. Tolerating bigotry is not some enlightened centrist position that everyone should aspire to, least of all Christians, I would think. If this was 1938 and people were saying they didn't want Goebbels in the community, we would not look back on that now and say "gee, so much for the tolerant left". Unsubscribed

[@forloveofthepage2361]

The only way for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. Your defending one of the most powerful and racists people in the america over an angry tweet. He is setting up concentration camps, but you defend him with religion. Got it. Saying he isnt allowed to do something is a bit much, but defending him is worse IMO.

[@soldierbreed]

I mean being a fascist would equal not treating others with decency tho. The argument here would be wether JD is a fascist or not.

[@Miranda17137]

you don't have to be a fascist to treat other people badly. most people who treat other people badly are not fascists. they are just assholes. unfortunately, virtue signalling on social media doesn't work when you just call JD Vance an asshole.

[@Hgkd2]

@@Miranda17137 Would you also say that Elon Musk isn't a nationalist? 😆Get a grip

[@HoopityHip]

@@Hgkd2 Reaching for straws kiddo

[@Hesadryt]

@@Miranda17137but JD Vance is an asshole.

[@alexisglaab2572]

@@Miranda17137 People who scapegoat vulnerable minorities, make up lies to demonize them and then attempt to legislate away their existence ARE fascist though. Look at an actual checklist and compare his actions.

[@jaredcampbell8849]

I love this VLOG! Keep it up!

[@Tullowit]

Dang, someone must have shrieked out over in the deranged lib echo chamber and gave them marching orders and a link to this.

[@rivalthoughts2061]

I’m going to have to disagree with you. Should we be accepting of others, yes, absolutely; however that doesn’t mean that everything can simply be ignored. To give an extreme example, imagine that someone in your group is a member of some kind of extremist political group and has actively participated in harming minorities. It’s not an issue of acceptance, it’s a matter of ‘if we let them play at our table we are condoning that behavior.’ There’s an idea in politics called “the enlightened centrist” which describes people who tend to focus on finding the middle ground between opposing sides. If the two opposing sides are “x people shouldn’t be allowed to exist” and “we just want to live” the resulting middle ground is “maybe only some of them should be allowed to exist?” Once again, being accepting of people’s differences is a good thing, but if you’re always accepting of people’s bad behavior then you are supporting that behavior by not taking a stand.

[@Seority]

And that's how trump got elected lol

[@tanyabowers-dean2345]

Well said.

[@Theinstrument_Mayonaise]

Just curious if it’s an anecdote or a real story. Cause Why would it matter that they commit violence against a minority specifically wouldn’t committing violence against anyone. Like unless it’s in self defense violence should generally be condemned.

[@rivalthoughts2061]

@ no, not anecdotal. And yeah, harm against anyone is bad, I was just in the mindset of criticizing bigotry since we were talking about Vance.

[@ShivaTD]

@@rivalthoughts2061 I agree with your sentiment. That is why anyone who vocalized support or tolerance for child mutilation would be immediately rejected from my game, home, and discord.

[@arnust7113]

Dude, as of ONE thing, JD Vance was the major part on endorsing the hateful and racist lies about Haitians a couple of months back. That’s not “an opinion”, its material harm being brought upon people, and there’s a lot more of that that he is going to be complicit over.

[@James-q1m7jjim]

Racist, you say? Mate, people on your side spent months in 2020 shouting racist language at Black police officers they would encounter. And you said nothing. Stop throwing that label at others as if it absolves you of Your Own Racism.

[@timesup5105]

So you’re literally denying the videos and first hand accounts of those things actually happening. Which part of facts is racist? I love being white btw.

[@samwashburn6823]

@@arnust7113... Dude, did you even watch the video? The point he was making was not about JD Vance. The point was that we can find common ground, even with people that have wildly different views than us, over some awesome TTRPGS. All should be included. The post about Vance is being used as example for how you can bridge the gap with people in your life that you have fallen out of agreement with. Maybe by rekindling those relationships over some games, they can come to an understanding of you or you can come to an understanding of them. Use the game to build what really matters: respectful and inclusive relationships with all walks of life.

[@arnust7113]

@@samwashburn6823 i think it’s a little hard to bridge over ttrpg when the other person has unlawfully deported you from the country lol, papering who was being referred to in that post is just foolish at best and disingenous at worst

[@classicalteacher]

You must really hate Obama and Biden. More illegals were deported during their administration than any, including Clinton when he deported illegals in Florida. He ripped children from their parents hands and sent them back to Cuba. That's how Florida became a Red state after Clinton.

[@TheHushedsilence]

This is such a disingenuous and pandering reaction video. I like your work, but you've obscured facts and nuance, JD Vance is not "just anyone" and the OP wasn't "just anyone" either. You've also blatantly ignored the tolerance paradox. You cannot tolerate intolerant behavior. JD Vance actively harms people via policy, AND he's implied he has a low opinion of gamers through his regard for his own Magic playing days and his son's Pokemon interest. This was video was bait and you know it.

[@121597Luke]

It does matter, when that persons politics directly harm other people. When those political beliefs become policy, when it becomes enforced action. THAT'S when it crosses a line. We SHOULD be kicking fascists and bad actors out of our hobby spaces. Can't stand sharing a table with someone who would rather see my friends dead than not. I am intolerant of the intolerant. Because once you start to argue with them, once you start to consider than stance on issues, you legitimize them. Yeah, I am not inclusive of fascists and fascist enablers. Opinions like yours, which preach a misguided inclusivity, are what push marginalized people out of play spaces. It harms them, and marginalizes them further. This type of stance is what kills games.

[@wanderdragon1075]

My guy, as a trans woman, five days after the Trump/Vance administration used executive power to limit my community’s ability to exist and represent ourselves authentically… nah Vance can leave, because the mutual respect has been broken already.

[@Apeiron242]

"My guy, as a guy...."

[@JestinFatchett]

Never agreed more. I believe everyone has the right to their own happiness, but when you force your beliefs or ideas on others you’re betraying their right to their own happiness. I appreciate you speaking on this one.

[@njfernandes87]

So, ur saying that as long as they behave at a gaming table, what they do out of it doesn't matter? Because the person in question isn't being targeted because of their political or religious views, it's because he hides behing said things to promote racist behaviours, among other things. Let's not forget he was the person that brought the rumours about Haitians eating pets in their neighbourhoods. All it takes for evil to win is for Good men to do nothing, That's in the Bible as well

[@timesup5105]

So you’re denying that happened? First hand resident accounts with videos to back up claims. Which first hand accounts are you saying are lying? Or you’re going off the cnn stories who told you Biden was sharpe as a tack when clearly he has dementia.

[@frostmagemarii]

You get to choose who's at your table; not who's allowed to take part in the hobby. That's where people like you tend to get things twisted.

[@Seority]

You missed the point my guy

[@DragonmasterCire]

Holy Echo Chamber Batman!

[@happy911]

I think the point is the gatekeeper aspect of it. A lot of people below say: "Not at my table." But the post is saying they shouldn't be allowed to play the game at all. Two completely different things.

[@SuperMattMart]

@@happy911 if this was the angle Luke took, then I'd be all for it. Instead he went this weird "if you are a good Christian you'd pay with anyone" approach.

[@LB_adventurer]

The person that published that original post was the creator/publisher of Pathfinder and it's his book.. If he doesn't want Vance to play his game then it's his right to say that. He's saying.. send back your books Vance and I'll give you a refund because you are not welcome in my game... and he's saying that cause Vance is spewing hate and taking away people's rights and freedoms. Don't be an apologist, wake up before it's too late. Trump is a dictator and Vance is his lapdog

[@rafibausk7071]

​​​@@LB_adventurer It steems about half the country with disagree with you. And even so. He put that game on to the open market. If he doesn't want people playing his game he could pull it from it. I happen to have my own strong set of convictions. I am well aware that if I put something on market. If it's good it's going to be enjoyed by people that disagree with me or even want me dead. I don't care as long as they don't come knocking on my door. And if they feel so strongly about it they could simply not buy my thing.

[@Regfife]

@@LB_adventurer What rights under the Constitution have been taken away?

[@dsproductions19]

@@LB_adventurer Everything in here is just incorrect. The author of a book literally dos *not* have the right to take the books away, and not even the publisher can do that. If someone buys a physical object, it's their property to do what they want with it. Secondly, he hasn't "spewed hate" 'or taken away any rights or freedoms. The only one "spewing hate" in that scenario was the post calling him a fascist while wanting to take away his property. Also, Trump isn't a dictator. He was literally elected by the majority of Americans, and won both the electoral college and the popular vote. You may not agree with his political opinions, but using fake, strawman insults won't get you anywhere or convince people to agree with you.

[@Ashtonyss]

I think your core point is well-meaning. I agree that these things have no place at the game table. But I do fully believe if I showed up to your table and attacked your faith to your face I wouldn't be welcome back. That would be completely fair in my book. If someone at my table made it clear that they were intolerant of my LGBT friends at the table, they wouldn't be welcome back either. This is such an obvious point that it feels a bit disingenuous of you to take this stance. I get that you're coming at it from the perspective of banning someone from the game entirely but you and I both know that's an impossibility. Nobody is banned from buying a pathfinder book, and the original post was hyperbolic like most Twitter posts. I can understand taking an issue with the hyperbole. If someone has made it loud and clear that they hate me and want me to suffer, I don't have to be friendly to that person. I don't have to invite them to my table. As for the Twitter post? Yeah, I agree that the idea of forcing anyone to return their books and banning them from ttrpg is utterly ridiculous. We all come together to play these games to have a good time together. It's my job as a DM to make my table a comfortable space for my players. Not paizo's. Honestly I would assume, based on your other videos, that you wound agree with me on most of this. I hope you take this as the good-faith rebuttal it was intended as. I'm a longtime member of your audience and your videos have been really helpful to me as a DM. Genuinely bear you no ill will, but I'm also a straight white guy who isn't currently being directly targeted by bigoted policies. You're going to get a lot of backlash from people who face genuine intolerance in their daily lives and I hope you're able to reflect on the reality they face. I also hope that you don't get a ton of harassment for this video. Wishing you the best in 2025, Luke.

[@backcountry164]

Watch the video again. Pay attention this time.

[@Ashtonyss]

​@@backcountry164 I heard the message loud and clear. Can you say you understood mine?

[@Ashtonyss]

​@@backcountry164What do you think I misunderstood?

[@ShivaTD]

@@Ashtonyss Does that go both ways? If your queer players expressed their dislike of Christians to a Christian player, would you remove them from your game?

[@HoffaFett]

Dude, this is a terrible video. Not sure why you decided to bring politics into your channel, but players and DMs ABSOLUTELY have the right to exclude people that you disagree with on a deep, moral level. For example, one of my players is my brother-in-law. If I learned he cheated on my sister (which he never would), I would kick him the hell out of my game. Not only would he have done injury to someone I love, but I would also have fundamental and irreconcilable differences with his moral compass. If one of my players began using racist slurs either at or away from the table, I wouldn't feel comfortable having them in my game. If one of my players got an abortion, and another player bullied her for it, the bully would be gone instantly, no hesitation. Our games are about inclusivity and diversity, you are 100% correct on that point. And BECAUSE our games are about inclusivity and diversity, those who are fundamentally opposed to inclusivity and diversity ARE NOT WELCOME. We cannot tolerate their intolerance. I like you, man, but you missed the mark on this. I recommend you delete this video. I think touching politics will hurt your channel.

[@dahelmang]

@@HoffaFett people can choose who plays at their table, not who buys their products.

[@Seority]

You missed it when he said "people who are kind and respectful" lol

[@corylocke7754]

​@@Seoritybut technically the comment never mentioned anybody who are kind and respectful. Vance is neither of those

[@bladehoth]

Wow, you really didn't watch the video or something. He was speaking about a creator of the game telling a customer that they aren't allowed to play their creation based on a difference of opinion. That could easily have been you.

[@bladehoth]

You realize that the creator is actively apposing Inclusivity and diversity by disallowing someone to play based on religion/beliefs. If you get lost, there is this thing called a dictionary and if you look up the word "discriminate" You'll figure out that it isn't a political 1 sided definition.

[@peterrasmussen4428]

It is a nice ideal, but very few things are so simple in our world. If you knew someone was a member of the KKK, and posted Nazi stuff on social media, but they didn't bring that up at your table, would they still be welcome? I think everyone has a limit to how much they can overlook, even if a person is pleasant to be around.

[@ShivaTD]

@@peterrasmussen4428 of course they would be welcome as long as they didn't bring it up at the table. Hell, I let a BLM advocate and a Turf play my table for over 2 years. Never a problem with the turf but the BLM guy kept trying to use the Discord to spread propaganda and fundraise. That's what he had to go. His actions, not his beliefs.

[@talongreenlee7704]

People are always going to look for where they’re welcome. If you banish them from the town square, they’ll go to the back alleys. If you’re dealing with a person who you consider hateful and you make them unwelcome, they’ll will find others who agree with them and become entrenched in their hatefulness. And if you think you’re protecting the town square from hate by being hateful against everyone outside, you’re not.

[@4Eyes1]

Okay Luke, look. I like you a lot. You've given some great advice over the years. However, you COMPLETELY missed the point of that person's comment. They were not saying that because Vance is a Republican. They were saying that because he doesn't treat others with respect unless they agree with his own narrow set of beliefs. Which I believe, Luke, you would agree is a pretty good reason to kick somebody out from your game table.

[@Seority]

Its still cringe to gate keep bro

[@4Eyes1]

@Seority Kicking out players who cause issues at your table is gatekeeping now?

[@bladehoth]

Just sounds like you're making very reaching justification to discriminate. What exactly has he done to you?

[@juanabreu3619]

​@@4Eyes1 no, but demanding that he returns his books, implying he should not have the right to play the entirety of the game and not just in a particular table, is gatekeeping

[@4Eyes1]

@@bladehoth Said a couple I know should not be married, called many of my friends groomers, admitted to lying about a community in Ohio for political brownie points... I think that a person like that would not be fun to play games with but what do I know?

[@toranas1500]

Where you lost me is saying you don't care what someone's politics are as long as you come with kindness and respect. The problem with with Vance is that he doesn't treat people with kindness and respect. He's said so many discriminatory and downright cruel things toward women and marginalized communities. His politics and his cruelty are intertwined. So no, he'd never be allowed at my games.

[@James-q1m7jjim]

The hypocrisy on display in the comments section should be obvious to anyone who hasn't let American partisan politics rot his or her brain. People acting as if their accusing others of being incapable of the most basic empathy somehow magically absolves them of their own shortcomings in that regard: I am an Australian of Aboriginal heritage. I have encountered racism from American "leftists" more than I have from anyone else on this planet when it comes to engagement with others online. I have encountered it on the D&D BEYOND forums from regulars and from moderators. Nothing could be more puerile than people acting as if racism-or bigotry in general-is partisan. Just so they cam lazily tell themxelves they aren't guilty of by virtue of nothing more than how they might vote.

[@cdnarmymedic]

Well... Feel free to invite JD Vance to your table I guess. He has shown the rest of us who he really is in a very public way, just as you have now done.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

You sound like you are going to cry of sadness over someone saying something so lukewarm.

[@frostmagemarii]

Yup, he's shown that he's a person that can exist beside someone without flying into a fit and demonizing people for having a different view.

[@Gametastica]

​@@frostmagemarii"different views" lol more like "actively removing human rights in one of the most powerful positions in the world" what a joke.

[@nicholasmartin534]

@@Gametastica I would love to see what these so called "human rights" are, and what makes you believe that they are a "human right".

[@dynestis2875]

​@@Gametasticayou mean the right of being put in a mental asylum?

[@Tullowit]

Stand firm, Luke! People in the comments are being dishonest about you, about the world, and about the words and made up "paradoxes" they throw around. Your take is a great one, and I was shocked to see how many acted in the comments here. There have been other videos recently on this issue, and the discussions in the comments were more truthful and less hyperbolic and histrionic.

[@clickrush]

Everyone draws a line somewhere and that's exactly how it should be. But it should also be a private decision. People who draw the line publicly for others I find incredibly patronizing and overstepping. There's something called freedom of association, an incredibly important principle that I adhere to and I don't let keyboard warriors and online activists tell me otherwise. There are people who believe things I find repulsive, but some of those are my friends and family. Personally I've said, done or believed things during my lifetime that I'm not particularly proud of. People are complicated and the ones who proclaim their hatred towards others online don't necessarily convince me of their virtuosity even if it's against someone they deem to be "fascist". As an anti-fascist I find it dangerous and harmful to trivialize that term. Bigotry, hate or disrespect is a hard-line for me personally. But when a friend, family member or player says or does something that I interpret as bigotry I engage with it and try to correct it and I expect the same from others as well, when I step over the line in some way or another. I don't shun people as long as they respect that process. We live in politically difficult and uncertain times. Some of the most powerful people in the world are spreading discord and hate and fear so we squabble among ourselves and categorize people into boxes. That's _their_ game and they are winning at it. I try not to play along and focus on building strong relationships with people around me, because that's what ultimately matters.

[@sylarjordan4037]

Fellow nerds, if you're a racist/misogynist or generally hateful towards those that are different from you, then you took the wrong message from the fiction you've grown up on.

[@taigenraine]

@@sylarjordan4037 Does that include for you over half the people in the US that voted for someone you don't agree with? I have never seen a person with my political views disclude anyone based on their race or gender or orientation. I have seen people who consider more than half the US to be fascist and call for social ostracization for those whose politics do not match their own. If you are one of the people who actually believe every conservative is racist and misogynist then maybe you should take a moment to be introspective about who is the intolerant one and try having an open minded discussion with your conservative peers, share your concerns and actually listen to theirs.

[@jeremoople]

​@@taigenraine 1) Trump voters are not "more than half" of the U.S. population. 2) Political affiliation is not comparable to "race, gender, or orientation." Who you vote for is a choice, and it isn't a morally neutral choice as it has tangible consequences that can cause real harm to people.

[@sylarjordan4037]

@taigenraine It's interesting that you, not me, tied racist/misogyny/hateful towards the "other" with Trump and his voters/conservatives. I made a politically neutral statement that being a nerd and being a bigot meant you missed the point of the stories you grew up on.

[@sylarjordan4037]

@@jeremoople Exactly correct.

[@taigenraine]

@@sylarjordan4037 Their are enough videos and podcasts and comments from lefties saying it over and over. Conservative generally don't throw those words around carelessly, so I made a guess about you, and looks like I easily hit the mark. The fact that you are implying that just because I know the trope that it is true shows exactly where you stand.

[@claytonpfeifer6166]

You see, the problem is Vance and his fascist bunch DON'T treat others with respect. The tolerance paradox isn't real. Tolerance is a social contract, and those that break it are no longer subject to it.

[@dewdropnutbutter]

@@claytonpfeifer6166 well said!

[@Cipri001]

@@claytonpfeifer6166 Excuse me, but do you even comprehend what fascism is?

[@frostmagemarii]

@@Cipri001 No, they don't.

[@watchface6836]

Are these "fascists" in the room with us now?

[@ianlayton6949]

​@@Cipri001 I'm European. I know exactly what fascism is. And I saw it in action with Elon Musk last week.

[@arandomnamegoeshere]

Normally, yes. But there is a bridge too far. And we've met that bridge. The social contract of treating each other with respect has long been broken by JD Vance and his ilk. "Meet me in the middle," says the unjust man. You take a step towards him, he takes a step back. "Meet me in the middle," says the unjust man. - A.R. Moxon

[@HoopityHip]

Agreed this is deeply disappointing, very ignorant and misguided take from DM Lair. Vance and Co are causing actual harm, and will continue to. The people here talking about the paradox of tolerance have 0 clue what they're talking about. Your mercy and tolerance should not come at the expense of another's wellbeing, if people can't understand that, they need to go outside and have some actual lived experiences with conflict resolution.

[@dahelmang]

Wow you have this so backwards

[@HoopityHip]

@ Whatever helps you sleep at night kiddo

[@arandomnamegoeshere]

​@ I'm going to guess that you're upset that society has changed to start treating people with respect and criticizing those who do not. You feel that this criticism is where the contract has been broken. You want to regress to a time when bigotry was acceptable. You take a step back. I will not follow.

[@dahelmang]

@@arandomnamegoeshere leftists have been the most intolerant people for the last decade and normal people are getting sick of it, which is why Trump won.

[@patrickscannell6370]

Isn't fascism by definition an excluding set of politics that is meant to shut some people out? I can understand to not be able to include that in an "inclusive" game, because you can't be inclusive by allowing exclusion.

[@wtbanyname]

Everyone? Do you care if they're a rappist? Or If they're a muderer? Is a fraudster okay? Where do you draw the line? Because I'm sure you do it somewhere... You're saying that "as long as they're kind at your table" it's fine. But is it, really? The tweet is absurd. But so is this video...

[@frostmagemarii]

The only thing absurd is your evaluation of the video. You're making up a fantasy world in your head to come up with arguments against it.

[@actually_a_catt]

@@frostmagemarii vance is a known piece of shit. its not like people are making baseless assumptions about him. his policies and opinions are all laid out for people to see.

[@aetherkid]

@@frostmagemarii when you as a government leader make policies that lead to people dying, then you have killed them. Trump is a murderer and Vance will be one, too.

[@eirikrhernandez8860]

You went way too much into extremes in this reply. Luke didn't even mention any of these criminal traits; he's talking about people that do not share his set of beliefs, and that he can by all means share a good game with. This should be the norm. You may not share beliefs or have conflicting worldviews and still be able to share a game out of pure enjoyment. Who knows, maybe the guy you despise so much makes a great character but you're still blinded by unfounded disgust. Choose who you play with, sure, but don't choose with politics or worldviews, after all, real life shouldn't impact in a fantasy world.

[@wtbanyname]

@ Grovel more...

[@nascenticity]

you are missing some key information here. as other commenters have pointed out, fascism is not the same as someone having a different religion or opinion than you. fascism is not an opinion, it is a political movement with a conscious and uncompromising goal to hurt others and force people to obey. tolerance and acceptance are only virtuous when everyone involved agrees to abide by them, and fascists will never agree to that because it goes against the root of their ideology. if you “tolerate” fascists you are not showing yourself to be a kind and accepting person; you are showing yourself to be naive and careless of the harm those fascists will cause to the people you let them get near. i assume you wouldn’t invite a known r*pist to your table; this is the same thing. “accepting” them means that you are partially responsible for anyone who gets hurt.

[@sirix500111]

A political movement you aren't even labeling correctly. Vance is an intolerant person that I can agree with, but he is not a fascist. If you are going to use a label, at least use the correct one.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

Ok so can I label you as a fascist and say you are no longer welcome anywhere? And why not?

[@aetherkid]

​@@sirix500111 palingenetic ultranationalism is the motto of Maga. They are and always have been fascist.

[@ratbou]

@@sirix500111 “It’s a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterised by a dictatorial leader, centralised autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy,” according to John Kelly, he is the vice president to a fascist at least.

[@BelMarduksBizarreBazaar]

@@ratbou I think I will stick with Mussolini's quote. A tad bit more expertise on the subject.

[@TheDisplacerBeast]

The issue is vance does not follow your rule.

[@somagai467]

So he's not allowed to play Pathfinder?

[@BootsAndKatz]

No one can stop him, but they can refuse to associate with him or endorse him and they can make sure folks know that if he plays it it is against their will. If I created something that Vance publicly liked, Id go out of my way to tell him to fluck off too.

[@Disti23]

Do you know him personally? Do you play at a table with him? Otherwise, you're spewing nonsense about someone you've never met.

[@TheDisplacerBeast]

@Disti23 ive met him, albeit briefly. And hes advocated for and directly contributed to the loss of my rights and the rights of my loved ones putting our lives at risk. I doubt he would do the same for himself, he does not follow the rule.

[@TheDisplacerBeast]

@@somagai467 he’s allowed to play, doesn’t make him welcome in the community.

[@robertashmore1942]

The only politics at my table are those in the fantasy world. In real life my players are across the political spectrum and its never been an issue.

[@johnhansen4794]

What y'all mature ur sumtin?

[@mookieblaelocker6504]

They aren’t in office pushing for the stripping of human rights

[@ricardojuanlopeznaranjo6651]

Fascists and racists are not allowed at my table. If there are Nine people sitting at a table with one Nazi, then you have ten Nazis at the table. I don't mind playing with different religions, political views or ideologys, but those promoting hate must be banned. You can't tolerate intolerante.

[@manofsteel626]

@robertashmore1942 exactly how it is at my table we play and enjoy what's going on at the table I don't judge people for there views. I've been friends with all sorts of people and there's good in most people you just gotta find it we all got flaws and issues.

[@kdolo1887]

That's because you dont have any activists

[@Lostinthought110]

Thank you for speaking about your faith. I agree whole heartedly with this statement. I have a mixed table, and to make things easier, I have a rule: outside of the game, no talking of faith, family, or political abilities. I broke my rule once, when it was time to vote and all I told people was to get out and vote. Not for whom, just to vote. My table HAS BEEN THANKFULLY RESPECTFULLY ADHERING TO THIS RULE. So thank you, Luke, and I appreciate your words. They are welcome.