My Thoughts on the Current Crucible Meta | Destiny 2 Lightfall

[@ruadhanmacgearailt5861]

I think rangefinder is the big problem with the current crop of smgs. While I agree with basically everything you said, I would add that the 750s could probably do with at least a bodyshot damage nerf as it creeps a bit too close to the 600s

[@beezy2576]

They need to rework the archetype. Everyone needs to leave RF ALONE. It’s been nerfed for no good reason at one Point. It doesn’t that much to your range it Helps but absolutely is not broken. If you use hand cannons you Will regret complaining about RF. TL is a damage perk that takes very little effort. Extra damage for free is not a buff someone should get for landing shots. Damage perks like kill clip, rampage, harmony are REWARDED damage. So the rework and TL are the issue not RF.

[@ruadhanmacgearailt5861]

@@beezy2576 while target lock is obviously very strong the 750s were strong before it, we're still in a situation where Ikelos and Tarrabah dominate because of their high zooms with RF or inherently. RF could get a SMG specific nerf and we know they can do that because of how they nerfed Tap the Trigger and Firmly Planted on fusions.

[@gibberishface]

@@beezy2576 so landing shots shouldn’t be rewarded? For a 1 bullet ttk increase?? Target lock is absolutely not as strong as everyone thinks. Try the lodbrok with TL, or the other strand smg that rolls TL. The perk isn’t the problem. The stat package on immortal is the problem. And yes range on smgs should be reigned in a bit, but the perks are absolutely not the problem.

[@FunniesRS]

@@beezy2576 you can literally steal a kill with 1 bullet and reload for 25% dmg buff with kill clip though, target lock takes a build up and staying tracked to the target.

[@LifeCompanionDogs8083]

It's not rangefinder. It's the overall base range and body shot damage that need to be severely nerfed. Smg should never out distance hand cannons. Maybe a very terrible rolled 180.

[@Rhemi.]

almost 10 million elims on a single SMG is INSANE

[@window9213]

Its also brand new. Something it seems a lot of people are forgetting.

[@Marzellus1991]

​@@window9213what im saying it'll dial down. NF, recluse and Mountaintop was the same spike in usage just about in pvp

[@Snorlaxsnaxx]

Been using it in pve and I already have 3k kills on it.

[@ewhitey18]

13 million if you include both versions

[@genobee5491]

The issue is stability being a non existent factor especially for MNK the god roll immortal has 90 range and 18 stability but doesn’t affect its ease of use having such low stability keep the range but force MNK players to have to use more stability or be punished by flinch and not being able to stay on target. Target lock does need to get looked at triggering so fast on low mag primary.

[@andreymavian3400]

I went flawless with my HCs without using SMGs or Pulses, and it might have been one of the toughest experiences in d2 for me, People still melted me with SMGs at a distance where I started having dmg falloff. I barely hade some extra range, and I learned so much about feeling the distance between me and an SMG or a Pulse user. I must say that I know all the spots on Javelin where I should stand to get an advantage over an SMG user, but this window is so narrow that if I make even a tiny mistake, I'm dead in the water.

[@i1shadow361]

There is no hand cannon that exists that has damage falloff before SMGs unless it is the worst rolled weapon in the world (maybe.)

[@darthvader9173]

​@@i1shadow361 minimun handcannon range is 28. Longest range smg is shayuras at 26. Bro wildin

[@Blindbygreen91]

Damn I can see that, was it tough finding your sweet spots? Am guessing you have to play enough to know where not to overextend

[@mahncodm1238]

I used Sturm a 120 and had no problem, Friday got 8x flawless smgs are strong yeah but just play outside on jav and peak shot, use ur shottie for close and ur good

[@andreymavian3400]

Yes, I was overexaggerating, of course HC range is more, but even in just under 30 meters the Immortal can kill you pretty easily if you aren't careful enough. My point was that I have only about 4-6 meters of range advantage over SMGs. To put in perspective it's equal to the Melee range on Ophidians which is hardly enough to call it an advantage when people can cover this distance in one slide without any penalties. After dmg falloff HCs lose in TTK dramatically while SMGs still hit like a truck for a couple more meters.

[@temuthy]

Been waiting for a video like this from D2 youtubers, this meta is horrific and the “nerfs” they claimed would help pull back on higher range smgs did nothing. Dont even get me started on striker titan.

[@window9213]

I don't think its smgs having range, I think its that just about every map in the game is cqc or near cqc is the bigger issue.

[@2e826]

@@window9213 preach bro, 20m 750 is still going to destroy jav4

[@SuperWubDub]

@@window9213 simply not true. One of the biggest complaints over the last few seasons is maps like disjunction, eternity, that saturn map, being a majority of the maps in rotation. It's literally the opposite of what your claiming. The isse truly is SMGs dueling outside of their intended ranges, sustaining the highest TTK's in the same ranges as autos and hand cannons. I'd say rangefinder is the culprit, as all 3 dominant SMGS (Ikelos, tarrabah, immortal) have zoom advantages, that's not a coincidence, that's why they're the top 3 most used weapons in the sandbox. The issue lies within the range. It's not the only issue, but it's the largest most glaring issue. Other things like small maps or special ammo economy play a part, but not as big.

[@window9213]

@@SuperWubDub The most used weapons are conveniently the best when theres only 4 maps in the pool that they aren't good on. Small maps play a big part in how good smgs are, and Javelin 4 could not be more perfect an smg weekend. Autoes are just bad, none of their archetypes are actually good (outside the new raid auto which can actually contend with immortal but nobody has a good roll yet), and handcannons simply outrange smgs, but again, javelin 4 is not a hc shotgun map. Its an smg map.

[@Joseph-gy1dv]

I’m so glad you said peacekeepers aren’t the problem because there’s other exotics that are much stronger then pk and regarding 750s they could also do something about the perk synergy as the perks synergise way to well.

[@nitrodragon3828]

yeah its very annoying, people act like peacekeepers are whats making them lose, if your asking for a pk nerf, you need to take a breather and acknowledge that you just arent very good at the game. They give quickdraw and strafe speed, in other words they provide no additional help to actual skill accept ae, other than that your just down right getting outgunned cause they're better.

[@xxlegend87xx]

I agree about pulse rifles vs smgs on jav4, I used autumn wind and cloudstrike and went solo flawless this weekend, map awareness and playing careful was key💯

[@Voidsway]

I did the same thing but with the messenger 🤣. I also did it with a bow... And then I grinded out with the smg. SMGs aren't that difficult to counter but they are very forgiving

[@brendanpowell6043]

Adept messenger with encore and headseeker and max stability glacioclasm on void heart of inmost light for me as a solo

[@jasonford2013]

I agree with that take. What I took most from this video is map awareness and knowing when and where to engage. I think that would be a cool type of video that you can make whenever content is slow. Just going over weapons, lanes , etc. just a thought having a top PVP player explaining their movement and reason behind it would be good vid to drop.

[@myonlyfriendtheend4958]

THE GOAT SPEAKS also I've been a pk and pulse rifle main since beyond light (legit one of my favorite metas was the auto rifle meta I feel in love with d1's alpha because of autos) I really hope they buff so many other guns

[@unlucky7440]

I’d much rather have season of the worthy autos over smgs being this strong

[@mhelky]

What’s season of the worthy?

[@unlucky7440]

@@mhelky when trials first first came out. Also when SUNSETTING wasn’t in the game yet

[@Entwiined.]

@@mhelkySeason 10, Hard Light and 600 rpm autos were meta because they had like a 0.7 ttk

[@ihadlunch8575]

@@Entwiined. My friends always bring up this time in the meta. You went into trials with a hard light and just shot down a hall way lmao.

[@quentinb734]

that was equallly not fun hard light was the only auto used

[@diegojavier9397]

Panduh I must say, as a person who’s been using Peacekeepers since vanilla I appreciate you pointing out the real issue when it comes to SMG’s. It’s my favorite play style, I wish SMG’s as a whole would be more balanced so that you’d actually have to close the gap and use them how they’re intended.

[@nicholasevans5518]

Yeah as a titan main I think peacekeepers are the last titan exotic that’s just good, and the only reason they are good is because SMG’s are good.

[@ghostridernz17]

​@@nicholasevans5518 exactly like why were peacekeepers not broken before? Did you see them everywhere before smgs were the abslute? Some people just dont like to think. I mean if they cry about the swap speed then ophidians better get the nerf too because ophidians alters ALL guns not just one type

[@duckman1771]

What are you're thoughts on fusion rifles?

[@FlockingForDays1]

How do you jump backwards so fast as a titan

[@joshuastanaland7099]

The immortal is the one smg that you can use on large maps comfortably

[@envy22418]

I usually don’t like calling for nerfs but with this I 100% agree with everything you said. With that said I’m gonna have fun until the nerf comes 😂😂

[@dylan_ernesto8587]

The point you made at 3:20 is a good one, but I’m sure that bungie is fully aware that they’ve made an adept ikelos with a .56 ttk, they want people to play the game and play trials. And what a surprise it’s locked behind a paywall of lightfall to access trials. Bungie has stated that they don’t want to achieve balance, they want different metas, and they add a broken meta gun that you need to pay for.

[@LunarSnail2403]

if the devs nerf the smgs, then im afraid all of the other smgs we like will also suffer, just nerf target lock lol

[@HazenPlays]

I've been using a really good anti-smg meta build thats gotten me to 10k ascendant on PC. Antaeus Ward + Kick Start Glacioclasm + Stasis Titan w/ Glacial Grenades. I've been MAPPING players with this while taking little to no damage. If you don't have a under pressure/kickstart glacio, then under pressure/high impact reserves works too. But glacioclasm is a must. Try out this build, you will have a ton of fun.

[@tactix7199]

Take rangefinder off all smgs and adjust target lock for primaries

[@karubml]

thank you for being the only person to not shit on pks. it's literally one of 2 pvp exotics that're fun to use and not obnoxious to play against. while shoulder charges are powerful, barricade is also the most useless class ability out of the three. which is part of the reason i main arc tbh. thrusters.

[@assassinierer47]

Totally agree that target lock is too good and deserves to get adjusted. These super high range SMG's are incredible dominant in PC because of the lack of recoil. Stability should matter when building a gun. And if you can't go all out on the rangestat it makes sense that Rangefinder exists.

[@HeezyHaskew]

No, smgs need adjusting not target lock

[@jeremyclark6813]

Screw that. The issue isn’t with the perk. It does exactly as intended and isn’t broken on autos or anything besides smgs. Smgs need a nerf not target lock.

[@sabre6464]

Controller isn't hard to control for it either

[@axe2grind244]

True. Cold Front has a stability stat of like 7 lol.

[@itz-dc-6244]

Mmm idk I play on controller and when someone is a out of range ypu definitely can feel certain a guns lose its stickiness to a target controlling recoil isn’t a problem tho but trying to beam someone that’s out of range is way harder on console for me

[@Scott-hk6we]

From the thumbnail I thought this was Difizzles's, "This Week In Trials" (TWIT) lol

[@Metro5oh]

Was literally about to make a KZbin Channel just to make THIS VIDEO! So nice to have someone who sees this game logically as far as the meta. "PKs ARE NOT THE PROBLEM". Deserve all the support you been getting man, and no need to apologize for the missed uploads, GET THAT ROLL! Literally every point you made is SPOT ON, weapons CAN be map dependent, but better players CAN and WILL use the best tool for the job, a GREAT PK player can roll people regardless of the map.

[@psquaredddd]

I feel like panduh’s rng is like mine. I feel for you homie. i grinded a good 95 & didn’t get the god roll either. Feels bad.

[@rokkudai]

Target lock has been on smg's since last season. Prolonged Engagement from the Vanguard playlist activity was killer in crucible with the help of target lock. Oh and it is a 900 rpm

[@zachholzer1200]

Facts all around. I love the point you made about people taking the wrong engagements and complaining instead of playing to the weapon they’re using.

[@DiddyCanFly]

This take is 100% on point lol I’ve been having a blast with this thing but man is it easy to see what the issue is 😂

[@flatversech1227]

I feel like the Huckleberry (without rampage procced) has the perfect range and balance for 750's. Just over 20 meters range with somewhat high recoil. I went flawless with it, and it felt good but never as broken as the Immortal feels now.

[@tacoboy2218]

Huckleberry with speedloader slacks is my favorite build so fair

[@Penky001]

panduh really wants that spare rations too come back gotta love it man , such a great gun and the pew pew sound is amazing

[@jjmah7]

It’s also reflective of playing on Jav, a total SMG map

[@wezzy9437]

They should cap the range of SMgs at 20m and reduce damage on Aggressive frames by 1-2 points. Also I think Target Lock should only proc on precision damage.

[@nicholasevans5518]

Yeah that’s not gonna you know , DESTROY THEM 😂

[@Little_Homus]

Dude, this is a really great take. Me and my friends have been saying the same stuff. I even got told by my friends that I missed my opportunity to go flawless since they say the more the "Meta" changes the worse/ easier the guns are getting. I do not think by any means I am a great player, I need work, I can see that. But sidearms, then this like back to back, has been tough to even get close to motivated to try. Good video my dude, seriously well executed. Congrats on 95K, and wish you the best for the future 100K.

[@MohammedAli-kc8fb]

I agree with everything you said .and thanks for being couradge and not caring for what everyone saying.

[@PanduhGG]

❤️

[@eliasmarx92]

I was enjoying this so much.

[@Razer5542]

Flawless pool was rough, playing with a pulse against 3 smg + sniper users every single match was pure pain..

[@Daiyns69]

In all honesty I would definitely like more of this type of video

[@PanduhGG]

👍 thank you

[@pauljesly2569]

This is ur best vid yet or atleast one of em 🐐

[@PanduhGG]

❤️

[@majora919]

While the range is an issue I definitely think it could be offset by nerfing the ease of use of 750s, I feel like 600s and 900s are fine atm

[@metro2673]

as a hand cannon main It is defiantly rough to play against smgs rn. still usually do fine because good aim beats people who cant aim, but when there is a really good smg player on the other team it is over before it begins. they just reach so far out

[@Primal_ak]

Speaking straight facccccccccts I needed to hear someone say this so bad!

[@Wraith6253]

I think a main problem with smgs is that because they are so good in close range to the point where you can at times shred shotgunners who are three feet in front of you before they get you meaning you can also run something like a pulse or sniper making them viable to use on every map without any real drawbacks

[@Zahigggy]

Another issue in the smg vs auto thing that could be changed is the recoil direction, i think if they just fucked up the base recoil direction (which is like avg 80-95 on all the smgs) maybe they wouldnt be so easy to use

[@DhanRahl1]

My exact thought was how much this felt like the AR meta that hit awhile ago, and it felt so bad to even play I actually put the game down for almost 2 seasons. Granted, I've been a pulse main ever since I started playing and I typically enjoy the playstyle of being in the back doing what I can. But after today's IB experience, it's insanely frustrating to be challenged by SMGs due to map sizes, or the fact that seemingly EVERYONE has one, so only 1 section of the map is played at all because that's where everyone is in range of the SMG. Before this gun dropped I was having a blast, especially playing around with the new crafted pulse, learning how to strand etc...but all of that is instantly gone with the introduction of Immortal. I ended my session today having the least amount of fun I've had in Destiny2 since the AR meta was a thing.

[@zorpter]

My favorite Meta was Handcannons. 🙁

[@TehThxsis]

Balanced meta is ALWAYS better. But yeah, hand cannons just feel sexy. So I agree

[@window9213]

PVP player try not to want a handcannon meta every single season challenge (impossible)

[@fotis3v480]

​@@window9213 its almost as if d2 has the literal worst pvp in the current market lmao. Most of us play it just to play d2 cause pve is stale.

[@Maddie_The_Sergal]

​@@window9213 that's because those are the only metas were other weapons are allowed to exist, hell even the 120 hc meta (the worst one) was nowhere near this bad

[@window9213]

@@Maddie_The_Sergal Nf Lh meta was way worse than 120 meta. Trust me on that one.

[@ermannorondanini3813]

Just wanted to point out that, if the immortal's range stat wasn't enough (which can reach up to 90 for the adept version btw), its origin trait "field-tested" allows it to gain a 10 points bonus in range, stability and handling when the requirement of 1 kill is met (the bouns can become even higher, but the requirements to proc level 2, 3, 4 and 5 of the perk are a bit difficult to meet). So, uh... yeah, you can have an SMG with one of the fastest ttk in the game reach 100 range with 0 effort. Nice

[@Allblacksgladiator]

And damn 1600 kills on the immortal already

[@Battousai102084]

I don't have one of those guns. I play a mini game on when destiny would crash on series x. Hope one day bungie would fix this problem

[@Telesto_Timelost]

7:10 I think that’s more about the titan literally being immune to all damage while charging towards you with knockout

[@ultimatelobato]

one of the few good exotics that remain for titans and now people want to nerf them?!? then only going to be dune marchers, and then people would complain again till bungie nerfthem too, and titans became useless, and only hunters in crucible

[@ruffryda92]

Idk if Spare Rations world become meta in this sandbox, it thrived as a 150 but as a 140 it's obviously going to need some value changes but knowing Bungie and how badly they gutted Mindbenders I doubt they make enough value changes to make it even competitive let alone the meta, guess we'll see. I'd love to have Spare Rations reprised tho.

[@michaelpacheco6549]

Agreed. I think 140s desperately need buffs compared to the garbage long range/ smg meta. I shouldn’t need to be glued to cover just to take a fight against literally every primary in the game.

[@sataroi386]

The shaker looks sick need to hit that 100k

[@elipockrus]

Get this dude 100k

[@PanduhGG]

❤️

[@merlin3283]

i'm a solo player and this is only the second time i've been flawless, and it was because of a barely decent roll on my immortal plus cloud strike, even the regular version is incredible

[@Richbyron]

What they done is the equivalent of bringing back not forgotten and making it 100x easier to get+it’s easier to use

[@gireezy90]

The immortal is not easy to get. People bitch constantly about trials. Finally a weapon came out that deserved the grind which is why everyone got on. Not to mention this is a PC issue as consoles actually have recoil.

[@Richbyron]

I said easier bru, it’s miles easier to get than not forgotten was wtf. This thing is hella broken either way so they better adjust it for pc, which is a shit solution anyway, or just nerf the range like how it should be.

[@Richbyron]

@@gireezy90 and if it’s not easy to get then why did the gun reach #1 usage on the first 3 days it came out? Maybe it’s not easy for *you* specifically but I don’t think people had a problem with getting it

[@vibinitm3274]

So on an unrelated note, what’s y’all’s thoughts on the Coronach-22? It’s a new Suros auto that also seemingly happens to have target lock. If any of you happen to have a good roll on it, then what do y’all think about it?

[@benbrylski4620]

You think any of these pvp rat’s really know? They don’t actually know anything about the game… all they do is just go on youtube and find the best gun to use. 🤣

[@trikotine358]

💯 brother, and shoulder charge is something that needs to be fixed also, like as soon as it's used it has to recharge, or let hntets throw there knives till they hit something.

[@nanangsetyadi3605]

Glad you also bring up about how crazy powerful titan rn, they nerfed icarus dash saying warlocks need to be nerfed because it's movements in destiny are too powerful, but they give titan infinite icarus dash, with class ability to hold lanes and choke points.

[@ExarKun066]

found out that last word is able to shut down target lock

[@mattpatterson8633]

Love hearing Ryan Oakes in the intro!

[@Wytchlettv]

idk if it’s bad but i kinda like the smg meta, it’s been more fun than anything like the pulse meta, lfr meta, or anything like that. games feel fast pace and fun. idk it just feels like a more fun meta than anything we’ve had recently.

[@darrellgainer6966]

Yeah I like the fast pace too but I wish we would see more variety. All i see is pulse/smg or smg shotgun or smg/sniper like damn what about ar or trace rifles.

[@christianwells7940]

@@darrellgainer6966 nerfing smg and pulse range slightly, buffing handcannon range, adjusting ar and trace rifle damage to be more than smgs would make the game keeps its fast pace.

[@LurkenU]

You should make a vid on what weapons could beat the current meta for those that don’t know ❤ also loving the vids lately man!

[@PanduhGG]

Thank you for supporting the channel ❤️

[@courtoiis3679]

Target lock would not have been a problem if it was in the same column as ragefinder. I only got 1 smg with target lock without ragefinder (keep away instead) and I can tell that ragefinder makes a HUGE difference.

[@antagoniste9969]

You stole the words out of my mouth, thank you for talking about this problem. Keep up the good work!

[@PanduhGG]

Thanks ❤️

[@Allblacksgladiator]

The name was Ace

[@BrianMarcelo]

I thought I grinded a lot at 24 adept immortals but 149 holy moly. Glad I decided to call it at 3 am before reset.

[@IZyionI]

I’m just going to enjoy my thorn, found verdict, dunemarcher combo, great vid tho, good criticism ❤

[@joshsmith8715]

How can people say PKs are the problem when EVERYONE is using smgs, not just titans lmao. Hunters and warlocks also use smgs, not just one class 🤦‍♂️

[@dkdmtm9910]

What’s worse immortal or recluse meta

[@derekbaker4763]

I had this convo with the people I ran trials with. I've never seen a gun take over pvp like this in 9 years of playing destiny. Way back in the day suros, plan c, pocket infinity, and vex mytho all ran wild. But not like the immortal has taken over. Crazy times

[@PanduhGG]

NF/Luna's Howl took over like this for a little bit but those were a little harder to get

[@atoussaint958]

Guess you weren't around during the Thorn/Last word Days of Trails D1 huh ? 😅

[@OgiRaime]

I was that guy who said i was 20 power under and you said get pinnacles. I did and i had to swap to smg to go flawless. (Solo q is magical) Waitin for handcannon meta again

[@BJJrollerT]

Man, you made thee best video about this situation. I would be pissed if they messed with the SMG’s too much. SMG’s SHOULD be absolutely devastating within a certain range. I’d be ok with a slight range adjustment. Tone down the top ones and then buff the lowest to give them some TLC.

[@WinterSon91]

Didn't expect to but I agree with pretty much every thing you said, even as a PK main Waiting for a nerf to smgs so I don't feel cheap using my favorite weapon type

[@catalan500_8]

Am I buggin or is light level advantage still enabled in crucible? I keep getting one shot to the body in crucible even with woven mail up and 100 resilience Edit: not general crucible, I meant iron banner

[@the_VPR]

Smg’s are really good rn but tbh, I’d rather want more primaries to feel like smg’s. Give other primaries some more range and make em more forgiving, I’d love to see that but we’ll never get it.

[@gireezy90]

You won't get it because people will complain and want it nerfed.

[@Dred-Rivals]

Destiny already has so much aim assist, I don’t think weapons need to be more forgiving

[@tmntheaveyfire6822]

The issue with PK is for little to no investment you can have what hunters drop all their stats to have. Get rid of the strafe speed. Tarrabuh ravenous beast needs to become 3 kill requirement like all other alt fire mode. Ikelos and this gun need to lose like 5 meters and need a drop of body shot damage so they are unforgiving+ take extra flinch

[@jonathancarroll958]

They just benefit one weapon though so they are fine. The problem is just where some smgs are sitting ATM, especially with target lock and range. I'm not a Titan PK player btw.

[@tmntheaveyfire6822]

@@jonathancarroll958 bro NO other class buffs a weapon so much that it makes you have everything another character has. I magazine if lucky pants gave you 100 resil whenever you had a handcannon out and made every handcannon have perma 100 handling. It lets pk titans IGNORE 2 stats completely that other classes need to do. It’s the same issue with ophi, they would be used on every class if everyone had them.

[@kingscar3230]

Its always cool to check out what the current meta is but i never use it and do pretty i feel.

[@Allblacksgladiator]

I versed you and got mercy ruled

[@DPedro7]

I'm 25 meters with my pulse... The guy melt me with an smg from there and that's my fault?

[@Cerberus1141]

What about Cerberus +1 changes that should happen to make it feel better and have decent dueling capabilities?

[@lukeboyce9437]

I got my Multimach just before it left. Dropped almost 4K kills before putting it down for shayuras. Now the past couple seasons it’s 750s. Borrowed Time, Imelda, etc. Each season it’s just a different archetype. Stability isn’t mandatory on smogs because people focus for range and handling because as long as you have the 100 recoil direction you’re fine. I main a hunter sniper smg build and have been for about a year. At this point they’re broken. It’s just like when we had our auto rifle meta or when Prometheus lens was first introduced. Good ttk, but mad range and easy to use.

[@ice_craves2551]

didnt notice till now but panduh has highschool dxd outro song, a man of culture! Anyway totally agree 750smgs are currently to overwhelming with their respective range and ttk as well as pk are a little too much currently!

[@RequiemL34]

Maybe consistency on range, because are meant to melt, but on short distance

[@consideredchaos]

This season for Crucible is the best season I have seen in a while. Something has changed in terms of matchmaking and there aren’t as many sweats.

[@BigKillaJoke]

that's because almost everyone played to get this smg. Release a broken weapon, spike the playlist participation, and now you got people from all walks playing for the smg and filling out the que.

[@Meep-TY]

there are some leaks about the next season and i believe that you’ll enjoy what’s to come

[@Aiseru_]

Completely agree, good video.

[@retrojordanfan23]

I can definitely confirm shoulder charge is broken lol. I’m a Titan main and just like you said it’s how I get out of kills often lol.

[@FumeiShichi]

Simple solution for my hunters out there. Assassin's Cowl throwing knives with a 120 or the biting winds bow with swashbuckler and go to town with .5s two taps and instakill peek shots. If you saved a steady hand with swash or have a pure poetry with it you can enjoy the 120 meta again.

[@danfuqua6300]

Completely agree, Max roll 750 should be 23 meters, most 900s and 750s should average around 20, which most 900 already do. 600 are in a decent spot, as their TTK is comparative to autos, so they should compete in the same ranges

[@lukebarragan414]

yea the ease to use and range is the most frustrating. In my opinion it turns every gunfight into a 50/50 fight cause anyone can hit all their shots. you can trade with a bot using a target lock smg.

[@131313jim]

Nailed it. Spare rations will be king when back

[@BigDaddyBeefPatty]

They could drop the zoom by 1 and give a small nerf to target lock. That would probably balance it without nuking the gun.

[@JasonStaleyFitness]

The same thing happens every season or two…..one weapon type gets buffed or nerfed so others get used tremendously which makes them toxic or needing a nerf.

[@LifeCompanionDogs8083]

Bungie said near the end of shadowkeep that they want to force the meta for each year to make it varied. But that also fucks with pvp balance.

[@blitzgaming1145]

I 100% agree with what you said about SMGs needing a balance. Especially after this weekend of trials. I’m just sad because i know it’s going to get nerfed and i spent all weekend farming for my 5/5

[@obesecheezpuff2546]

i think content creators have a HEAVY impact on what players use too

[@ideliv3r673]

Thank you for very simply stating the problem and the solution. It really is this simple and I've been stating this myself for a while. A lot of issues in this game come from what I would call 'range band overlaps' and either too much base lethality ( Old school Luna's Howl situation) or lethality perks combing with an already very good weapon type. In a game with so many weapons types, it's sort of expected to have the 'range band' problem to some extent. We've seen it with tensions between HC users and Pulse Rifle players in the past. There have been times when HC's have reached too far into Pulse Rifle range and there was no point in ever using a pulse. There were points where HC range was maybe a tad too short, etc. The problem here is much more severe though because people don't seem to realize the CQC non-special weapons (sidearms and SMGS) are designed fundamentally differently to be easier to use within their respective ranges and have faster than normal non-special weapon TTKs/easier to achieve TTKs. That makes absolute sense on base, they're supposed to destroy you close up, but once you extend that range band to the extent we have now you start really running into issues. I think your mentioning of S Wrath was an excellent point and it kind of illustrates the issue perfectly. That weapon was very good and probably deserved to be nerfed for sure at the time, but even so why wasn't it as dominant as what we're seeing now? Because it was more the ease of use and a range factor than anything else. The TTK of S Wrath unmodded by damage perks was still somewhat in line with the TTK of normal non-special weapon archetypes. So even though, in its effective range, it was super easy to use that's mostly what made it so good, but it wasn't like you had *zero* chance against it using other weapons. This is different though because now they've taken one of the fast killing, *very* easy-to-use archetypes and given it insane range. I would say this is maybe as bad as the meta has ever been, discounting obviously dumb shit like everyone running around with Luna's, or like laser meta, etc. It's basically impossible to win a 1v1 against these things against a competent player unless you really outrange them using a different class of gun. And just to provide an example of what I would consider a 'good' use of like lethality perks I'll give an example. The new IB Pulse, and older 390's like it fit into this perfectly. The base TTK isn't great, so it probably won't get used that much in 3v3's or actual tournaments where winning a 1v1 is crucial, but it sort of balance out in 6's by the fact that you can roll it with kill clip, which changes the base TTK drastically allowing you to two burst. But getting there (i.e. getting the first kill) requires effort against good players since you should be at a disadvantage.) But this SMG is like the worst of everything it's insane right out of the box, and it has insane lethality.

[@dortie1498]

i think range sweet spot is 20m for 900s, 22 for 750s, and 24 for 600s with shyaurs only hitting 25

[@tr0ye]

Spare rations 👀 also keen for the shaker brus

[@whisttv3532]

Let’s go, kings back

[@gamez4lyfe187]

Panduh I have a roll with ricochet hammerforged range MW, rangefinder killing wind. What do you think of that?

[@alonzor557]

What shader is that on the shotty?

[@malikha5537]

what shotgun are you using? love the model and range

[@PanduhGG]

Matador