My three favourite GENESIS albums

Andy is a drummer, producer and educator. He has toured the world with rock legend Robert Plant and played on classic prog albums by Frost and IQ.
As a drum clinician he has played with Terry Bozzio, Kenny Aronoff, Thomas Lang, Marco Minneman and Mike Portnoy.
He also teaches drums privately and at Kidderminster College

[@Thrak360]

Good list. Mine? 1 Nursery Cryme 2 Trick of the Tail 3 Selling England…

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Yes...thats probably better than mine...where does Lamb go?

[@Patrick-sh9tt]

That´s crazy because as time goes by Nursery Cryme is gradually becoming my favourite also. Full of energy and boundless inventiveness.

[@larrycass3198]

I Respect Your and Other Musical Listener’s Opinion! My Top 3 Genesis Studio Albums Only: 1. Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. 2. Selling England by The Pound. 3. Foxtrot.

[@FundamentalsUK]

Thanks Andy, saw you with IQ back in the day 👍🏻for me Always The Lamb, Selling England, and Foxtrot, with Nursery crryme a close 4th

[@rohitl7636]

Glad to have you back! We really missed you. Please take care of yourself and I wish you a very speedy recovery. You will be absolutely fine in no time. Great video as always. "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" is also one of my favorite prog-rock albums.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Thanks Rohit

[@daveycretin664]

Happy to hear that you’re on the mend, good sir. To answer the query of more prog, yes please. As a Noo Yawka - growing up in the late 70s and early 80s - with no older siblings, l found rock music l liked through my local radio stations. The first Genesis songs l recall hearing on the radio were from the Duke album. I didn’t buy that record at the time, but l did buy all their successive releases. I liked both the hits and the deep album tracks as well. Towards the tail end of the 80s l worked at a record store where two older chaps turned me onto the Gabriel era of Genesis. Since this was pre-internet, and l was a naive “yewt,” l had no idea these albums even existed. I knew Peter Gabriel as a solo artist, not as the lead vocalist of an art rock outfit. I fell in love with their 1970s oeuvre, but also still enjoyed their 1980s output, too. In fact, l always thought that Genesis included at least one “old school lengthy prog excursion” on every post-Peter elpee. I love both halves of the coin, so to speak. Well, there are some clunkers on We Can’t Dance (“Hold on My Heart,” “Since I Lost You,” the title cut) but the extended tracks (“Fading Lights,” “Driving the Last Spike”) save the album from total irrelevance. I’d also like to hear your take on IQ - with and without you - and also your time spent with Sir Percy. I personally think that Martin Orford is a MONSTER musician (songwriter, keyboardist, singer, arranger) and doesn’t get the credit in the progressive-rock community that he so richly deserves. Prog on! Slainte Mhath!

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Thanks for this lengthy comment Davey. I should have known my subscribers would be more open minded than your average prog fan! I will do a video I think on my career, it seems silly that I haven't done this before and I will talk about Robert and Martin. You are right about Martin, he was very important to the IQ sound

[@ronmazurkiewicz3331]

Wishing you a speedy recovery, am a big Genesis fan I'd have to go for Foxtrot and Selling England but one album that I love that I think sits up there with the best of them is And Then There Were Three incredible songs feel and atmosphere.

[@MrStylemed]

Good to see you back and wishing you a speedy recovery. Definately up for more prog, perhaps you could enlighten us on Italian,German, French prog bands.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I wish I knew more about those bands. My prog knowledge is less than my fusion knowledge but there are a few bands I really love that I would like to talk more about. And I might do something about Neo prog and some of the prog albums I have played on.

[@MrStylemed]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yes a personal insight about the prog albums you've played on would be very interesting. Keep them coming.

[@markcapofari8419]

Appreciated the review and to me your #2 is my #1 as saw the tour for Lamb in NYC - the show was incredible/ only exceeded by the music

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I'm sure a lot of people will think that....

[@VincentGavin]

Oops, coming to this late but couldn’t agree more Andy, well said 👏🏻👏🏻

[@danielmoore4693]

I've felt this for a long time about Nursery Cryme - that I thought in some ways it's their best, but I didn't know why - although it really hit me why when I got this album with the 2007 stereo mix. This mix really brings the instrumentation to the fore, and you feel submerged in it properly - whereas with the so-called "definitive" 1990s CD mix the music sounded somehow thinner, which took away from its emotion and profundity.

[@ChristienGagnier]

the 80's vinyl copy I had sounded very bad.....I thought it had poor fidelity. The Live album gave the tracks life.

[@ingivalgeirsson4483]

I completely agree. There something very special about Nursery Cryme . But still Selling England By The Pound is always my favorite. Probably because it was my first Genesis album.

[@TractorCountdown]

Fantastic video! I'd like to see Madness cover 'Harold The Barrel'. I've never heard 'Three Sides Live' - that medley sounds ace from what you say. I've never had an issue with the different periods of Genesis - they all have the band's DNA, as you suggested.

[@toddmcdaniels1567]

Reigned in is the opposite of what I want. Why do people mourn the loss of Old Genesis? Because they want the old lore back. Fans of Old Genesis knew from way back that it was that material that would stand the test of time, and it has. It was also the compositions that fashioned the drama. It was impossible to continue the old lore without the roller coaster ride the compositions offered. Their Pop side was very good Pop, but it failed to capture the epic qualities that came before. Nursery Cryme and the Lamb are very good choices, Andy. Hope you get well soon.

[@toddmcdaniels1567]

Now I just noticed this video is a year old, so I guess you’re better :)

[@halcyon289]

Nursery Cryme is my favourite . They managed to create a world on this album without it being a concept , it feels like a Victorian / Edwardian children's story book put to music . Absolutely unique in all its Englishness .

[@ibornalone]

best wishes for a fast recovery from Italy's covidland....

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Thanks Andrea...I am on the mend :)

[@jdmresearch]

Nursery Cryme is my favorite too and perhaps 2nd would be Selling England or Foxtrot. Genesis Live was great too. Any of the first 7 albums would be really close. Amazingly, Nursery Cryme is not liked that much by the band, except perhaps for Hackett. Salmacis, Hogweed, and Musical Box are just amazing. Great playing, and it was also very different from Tresspass -- the beginning of the 'Classic Genesis' period. I read interviews from back then and they were huge King Crimson fans -- they were really blown away by In the Court. (Now they wouldn't recognize it, except for Ant Phillips). Finally, I've to say that the first record I listened to was And then there were three. I was about 5 years old -- it's actually one of the first things that I've a memory of. I do think it's a quite under-estimated album. It really has strong moments, like Down and Out -- Phil's playing is terrific. It also has an Americana feeling (Motherload, Ballad of Big) that I love. (I lived in Arizona for 5 years).

[@arnaudb.7669]

There is some GREAT and LEGENDARY american prog bands : Happy the Man, Yezda Urfa, The Muffins, Master Cylinder, Mirthrandir.

[@jimmycampbell78]

Crack the Sky

[@martinbroten9467]

Bought my first Genesis album “Genesis Live” (the first one) when it came out. Hadn’t heard any Genesis before but was already listening to Yes/Crimson/ELP. My top three Genesis albums would be “The Lamb”, “Selling England” and “Foxtrot”. I stayed with them the duration, always trying their latest iteration. I liked “And Then There Were Three”. I remember buying “Duke”, listening to it once and then shelving it. A few months later I put it on again and found that I really liked it a lot. That’s still an album I go back to. Apart from “Abacab”, there wasn’t much I liked about their ‘80s output. And I don’t think it’s snobbery. It just didn’t do much for me. What appeals to someone about music is so ephemeral, it can’t always be neatly defined. And absolutely props to them for becoming as successful as they did. It seems all the other prog bands tried to become more commercially viable in the late ‘70s and failed miserably. Also really liked “We Can’t Dance” (probably my favorite post “Duke” album).

[@ganazby]

Glad you’re doing better, Andy. I’m just over it. A nasty dose. Yep, it’s Nursery Cryme for me too. I dig Abacab. I remember being bitterly disappointed at first, but then later growing to love it. Great vid, as always. Cheers.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Cheers Philip :)

[@unityproject2279]

Have you heard Snow by Spock's Beard Andy? I had this on rotate along with The Lamb. For a while I didn't listen to much else I am ashamed to say! I was getting all I needed for a good while from these 2 brilliant concept albums. Thanks for a cracking video. I am the only one in my circle that enjoys Progressive music so it's great to watch videos like these, fantastic content.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Thanks Jack...I have heard Snow, and I used to tour quite a but with Spock's back in the old days. They were one hell of a band

[@unityproject2279]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer love the Neal era. Nick DV also one of my favourite musicians. Too many cool drummers there 😀

[@teedee2689]

@@unityproject2279 Love it! "Too many cool drummers" Yes! Being a drummer I love it!

[@eubieland]

My nomination for best alternative universe Genesis band is The Watch, Tracks From The Alps is a good one to explore if you liked the Gabriel era of Genesis.

[@MrFtoudalk]

I like the way you think about prog. I am a huge Genesis fan, even the later stuff, well, except for Calling All Stations, which also had its moments. But I agree their best albums were with Hackett/Collins. It's hard for me to pick a favorite album, I keep flipping between them, since they all have their hallmarks. Lamb is clearly an outlier in the sense they 'jumped' over the ocean. It's grittier, more experimental in the linking of the main songs, but absolutely original, innovative, and coherent. Nursery Cryme is outstanding, groundbreaking, and with excellent skills. But then Foxtrot is so choc full of epics. Selling England is probably the best executed album from the Gabriel era, and competes, for me anyway, with Trick Of The Tail for my favorite of their works, although Wind & Wuthering is very close and sometimes more intriguing to me. Duke and Abacab, I saw them live, and of course Mama tour, Invisible Touch, and We Can't Dance (even this one had a couple of semi-epics on it. So yeah, I am with you about the 'bringing it in' and writing songs in a different era, yet staying in the Genesis groove... Nice video, sorry you got Covid!

[@rickpaul4216]

I'm with you. I like all of Genesis' work. They made some pop music but damn its great pop music. The song that I use to explain the "pop" Genesis is "It's Gonna Get Better." It is a pop ballad, but if you listen to it seriously, it is built around a saucy bass line at an odd(ish) time signature (I think its 8/6). It has a fantastic groove that is indeed a Genesis "signature." To me its their most underrated song. The other song, which to me represents the transition, is "Turn it On Again. This is a pop song in 13's time. It was funny watching people pause on the 13th on the dance floor back in the day. I also agree that the Prog Pinnacle includes two records, The Lamb and Trick of the Tail. In fact, I think that TOTT is their most complete album. There is nothing weak on it but it also doesn't have anything as great on it as the Lamb does in parts. The Lamb goes on a bit long in parts, but its highlights are the best work they ever did.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

If you watch my overlooked prog masterpieces video I discuss TOTT there...

[@lauskop5995]

As usual I'm way too late. I like this Video very much not because of the records you chose ( you could have taken everthing from Nursery Cryme to Duke), but because of what you said about english aesthetics regarding prog and especially Genesis. So what is it for me as a german that my greatest Bands of all time (in historical order) are The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull and Genesis. I see that ' englishness' in all of them. But even if my English would be way better it's impossible to put my finger on what it really is... Overanalyzing will perhaps put The magic away... " Dark and grey, an english film the wednesday play...." Love it

[@MrDingDong2]

I totally understand what you talk about regarding Nursery Cryme! There's a special kind of magic happening on that album. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what caused it, but they definitely had something unique going on there. In some way I feel it is a "thank you and good-bye" to Ant, and he was participating on the album "in spirit" even though he was not actually performing. (He did actually compose the start of the Musical Box though). At the same time as saying "good-bye", they were moving forward, heading towards a post-Ant era. For the next two studio albums they kept chasing that same kind of feel/sound as found on NC, but never really quite grasped it, in my opinion.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Perhaps its the joy of finding the magic formula...it's very similar to The Yes Album in that regard...

[@user-dh9me5ug4x]

I agree with your comment about subjects of music being genuine experiences. I think one of the first brittish bands i loved who did this were the kinks there is something very engaging in their music and lyrics that comes from that. ​@AndyEdwardsDrummer

[@michaelfavreau7617]

Three Sides Live is dear to my heart. If Turn It On Again, Dodo and Abacab are `pop` songs then I love pop. I`m the biggest fan of the old Genesis albums but I also love No Reply At All and Home By The Sea. You said the 'prog rock snobs`, but in North America they are the prog rock "bullies". ( ha ha ) I can only say, enjoy today because tomorrow may never come.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I'm the same. My favourite Genesis tune is probably Turn It On Again

[@markjones5362]

Well, your #1 is a surprise. I expected Selling England by the Pound or Duke by the way you started your video in the way you explain that there really isn’t a great divide between the Gabriel/Collins eras.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I love Duke but it's the Three Sides Live versions I like best. I like Foxtrot more than Selling too.

[@klnine]

My mum almost had a heart attack when I explained that Phil was drummer in the music she hated me and bro playing !

[@Wayner71]

There's something frightening and Brothers Grimm-like about Nursery Cryme. There is a spookiness in tracks from other Genesis albums too but Nursery Cryme has it in abundance. This atmosphere of dread was present in all Gabriel-era Genesis and also in A Trick of the Tail. This fabled element could best be summoned by a line from Supper's Ready on Foxtrot, "The Pied Piper takes his children underground".

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

You hit the nail on the head...it's a Victorian spookiness...

[@AlexAlex-dr9zc]

You were lucky to have this version of "Three Sides Live" when it came out in 82. I had to wait for years to at last get my hands on it and have the 4th side live with its gems. Instead here in France, we had a real 3 sides live. The 4th one was filled with 5 studio tracks recorded during the "Duke" and "Abacab" sessions. "Open Door" and "Evidence Of Automn" are quiet decent songs but the rest is just forgettable. I however adore the live tracks even the more recent (at that time) tunes. Obviously I do prefer "Seconds Out" but this live album, with 4 live sides, is very strong and very well recorded. Just to end this note, one of my favourite Genesis track is "Seven Stones". The ending give me chills every time.

[@rk41gator]

I love that you highlight that it is the sound of Genesis that makes them great. The subtly of their music is so lost upon far too many. I think TLLDOB is one of the musical masterpieces of the 20th century. Steve made such a huge impact with the band and was a lost that even the rest of Genesis did not fully appreciate. But the magic came with the addition of Phil Collins. What an incredible musical ensemble. (I can not disagree with anything you say in this episode) Such great music on Nursery Cryme and Phil drumming lifts it to another level. During the Covid lockdown in the US I dove back into the band and starting thinking I must try and understand what the hell Gabriel is talking about in the lyrics for The Lamb. We are talking an essay. I am just now trying to edit the thing which is over 20 pages long, but I think I have a very good, unified construct that makes sense. When done, if interested, I can email a pdf. I would love to hear your honest appraisal. Since discovering your channel I have been quite impressed with both your amazing delivery, but more so on your content. Thanks for the education! (ps: Yes, it is the British who do Prog right. No question. No apology!)

[@grahamallen9393]

Hope you feel fully recovered soon Andy . great video , I bought Three Sides very early on and adore it , my own personal no 1 is Wind and Wuthering , I always thought Phil’s drumming was so important to the Genesis sound , a master of making odd meters groove , such a unique player.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

After I filmed this I realised that Phil and Steve were not from the same educational and class background as the rest. In fact I met Hacket once and this is what he spoke to me about, how he was working class but had been tarred with being 'posh' along with the rest of the band. Perhaps Collins and Hackett brought something else to the band that wasthe magic ingredient. I would say they brough Earthiness which may be from their less elitist backgrounds. Thats def what I hear in Phil's drumming.

[@heresthething41]

Abacab was my first genesis album. Absolutely love it. And everything that came before it. I am a fan of all sorts of music, old & new. I am a lyricist. And this is where I start having issues with 80s Genesis. Phil Collins wasn't very good at that. There were some good ones, like "Keep it Dark," stuff like that. And I feel like they were just running out of ideas.

[@SwampEye1]

Secounds out was my introduction to Genesis which straight away made me buy The Lamb ..., Nursery crime, Foxtrott, A trick ..., Mama .... Abacab ... I couldn't really rank them , but I can say Mama was their last good record they made ... IMHO

[@g.belanger8302]

My top three, wanting to recognize their evolution: 1-SEBTP; 2-TOTT; 3-Duke

[@geraldinhox]

All the songs in Nursery are good, that doesn't happen in Foxtrot.

[@RobertSvilpaMusic]

whew - sounding really congested there, Andy. Hopefully you're fast on the mend...

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Let us say i'm a lot better than I was!

[@MudFlanagan]

agree. Nursey Cryme is the best.

[@adamgrant7951]

Hi Andy, nice review as per. Surprised that Lamb Lies Down is in your top 3, good album but is it as good as Selling England by The Pound , Trick of the Tail or Foxtrot? Think the tracks on those albums are superior even if the concept is less ambitious.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

The trouble with these videos is in doing them you learn more and change your mind. And Trick of the Tail (and Wind and Wuthering) have both gone up in my estimation. On a recent video I argued that Trick may well be their best. But Lamb Lies Down occupies it's own category as it is unlike any other Genesis album. It is their American album, albeit the US seen through the lens of the English Aesthetic. And that makes it very special to me.

[@adamgrant7951]

I remember reading that Tony Banks didn't like Lamb Lies Down and still doesn't seem to keen it on it now. I find it strange that when Gabriel left he didn't continue in this vein, he seemed to get s bit funkier.

[@klnine]

Sir Steve Hackett departure was the end. You lie there is no divoc

[@teedee2689]

Fox Trot, Nursery Cryme and Trespass could be a triple album (all in one). The production, art and developing style are very consistent. Selling England, had more complex compositions, singing, art etc. It is a stand alone. The Lamb is dominated by Peter and different, nearly his first solo album. Trick of the Tail has a lot of "Selling England" feel to it again, but with Phil singing (excellent!). Andy, I thought you liked The Lamb the most. Maybe you changed (I do change my faves too with time/growth). Their last tour (not the recent shows) was insane. I saw them in San Jose, California (second time) and it was brilliant. I love Seconds Out but wish a good Peter Gabriel era was released with Supper Ready. Genesis Live is just a tease. Imagine a great double or triple live album released, well produced, cleaned up...that would be "wow!". Indeed, the English Culture created the best Prog. Fact. American and European (non English) bands are good but mediocrity creeps in too much. The English got it right...how about more?

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I agree with all that...and yes, Lamb seems to standalone, it's a masterpeice but for that Genesis sound it would be Nursery, Foxtrot and Selling for me. I think my fave is still Nursery Crime

[@amnril]

I’ve got two versions of ‘three sides live’ where side four isn’t live at all.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

The US version...Uk version is better...

[@ChrisRamsbottom]

Interesting you selected the album that had 6 members of Genesis on it... Ant Phillips wrote "F Sharp" which became "The Musical Box" and his arrangement is basically what appeared on that track.

[@rwoodford9812]

Great picks! The Lamb is my favorite, all three are great LPs. I was in my early 20s during this revolution, and somehow I landed on English Prog, and Jazz Fusion. Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd, Weather Report and all of the best in those two categories. It was a magical time, and I was lucky to be able to see some of the best groups live, in these categories. Thanks for sharing your insight and your knowledge.

[@stevesmith3990]

My faves: Wind & Wuthering, A Trick of The Tail & Selling England, next runner up And Then There Were Three. Don't like The Lamb or what happened after Duke ; not because lack of musicianship but because the songs were dire :)

[@thekeywitness]

In America, Three Sides Live was really only three sides live with a fourth side of largely forgettable studio tracks. (“Paperlate”, anyone?). The UK release sounds infinitely better even though the title is a lie. Personally I liked some of the later music (Duke!) but stuff like “Invisible Touch” is not my cup of tea. If I had to pick a favorite album it might be The Lamb, though it is imperfect. Had it been more concise (like 1 CD worth of material) it would have been perfect. Plus, that Hipgnosis album cover is fantastic.

[@dennismason3740]

I thought you were going to bypass Lamb and I was preparing a clever, seething comment. Next time.

[@arminreuter5151]

I don't have a rational explanation for why I dislike later Genesis just an emotional one: They don't reach me or touch me anymore, apart from exceptions. Peter Gabriel on the other other hand always reaches me.

[@davidcromwell6805]

Welcome back, Andy, and hope you're feeling 100% very soon! This video was a lot of fun - thanks! My first entry into Genesis was 'Seconds Out' (courtesy of a school pal's older brother). So that live album has a very similar significance & fond memories to me as 'Three Sides Live' has for you. 'Lamb' is indeed remarkable, and one of my top Genesis albums, although uneven and drags in places. A flawed masterpiece perhaps. 'Foxtrot' and 'Selling England' rank higher than 'Nursery Cryme' in my mind - but...'Fountain of Salmacis' is one of my all-time favourite Genesis tracks. I think I probably first heard it on Alan Freeman's unmissable Saturday afternoon Rock Show on Radio 1 in the 1970s (yes, I'm that old). Yes, please to more prog and upsetting a few prog snobs along the way.... ;)

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

There not fun if you dont rattle a few cages so I will. I missed out on Seconds Out. I don't have a copy to this day, so I missed out on Dancing on a Volcano which would have destroyed me if I had heard it in my youth. Foxtrot is probably better than Nursery Cryme but when I was a kid my mate had Foxtrot and I had NC. And so I persauded myself early on my album was better. Selling England never had quite the same charm for me, I don't know why. The compositions seem to meander a little and the production isn't quite the same, but its hard to put my finger on what it is really.

[@klnine]

You probably support Vila !

[@robsavage3217]

I saw the Genesis tour for Abacab that led to Three Sides Live when it came to Toronto back in the day. A tremendous show and the In the Cage medley was definitely one of the highlights. There were also some powerful moments when Phil Collins and Chester Thompson were simultaneously playing the drums. One of the great encore numbers was I know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe). It's too bad that wasn't on the album, although it is on Seconds Out.

[@MauriceHotblack]

My introduction to Genesis was Wind and Wuthering but Nursery Cryme has become my favourite. There's an element of pastoral whimsy that feels totally English and I mean English. There's no Scottish, Welsh or Irish in there. One can almost hear Purcell, Parry, Elgar and Vaughan Williams in it. I like some of the later Genesis but for me the albums become patchy.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I agree totally...NC is their best album for me.

[@stuartraybould6433]

I don't know if I'm an average prog fan or not, maybe not. This is going to be a long one. My first experience of Genesis was listening to Nursery Crymes at a friend's, I was 12 and just brought Jethro Tull's Aqualung and Elton John's Tumbleweed Connection after hearing several albums at his house. I didn't like music, couldn't stand pop music, then through my friend who had an old brother who was into some different stuff, I heard prog. My own brother was six years older but liked Motown. We used to listen to my friends albums, his brothers, then radio programmes like The Saturday Afternoon Rock Show and John Peel. Right from the start I was pulled towards more Jazz Fusion, Classical, Avant-garde stuff. I loved and still love Frank Zappa, Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Miles Davis. My friend was more Rock, so I listened to a lot of different stuff. My love of Genesis really grew after Foxtrot was released and I loved Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is my favourite Genesis album. I was and still am a big Brian Eno fan and loved that he helped out on the album and they became one of my favourite bands. When Gabriel left, I couldn't believe it but he was right to go his own way and I love his albums, especially Passion. A Trick of the Tail was good, I prefer Wind & Wuthering and it broke my heart when Hackett left but again, he was right to do so. When ...and then there were three came out, I was in sixth form. Follow You, Follow Me played on the radio in the common room and most students were saying this is great, who are Genesis, we love this. Me and my friend had to give a history lesson, nobody else had a clue. While they all loved it, we thought it's OK but the album will be different. How surprised we were when we brought it. We both thought it was awful. My heart broke, it was over, Hackett left and the heart went with him. The brains went when Gabriel left. Now, am I a prog snob. My collection holds mainly Jazz, Fusion and prog but real prog. Progressive music, not just prog rock. I have Jon Hassell, Eno, Gabriel, Ecm stuff, anything from Zappa to Elbow. It's not about the style, it's about if I like it or not. Does that mean it's any good, well for me personally obviously I think it's all amazing, my wife on the other hand thinks it awful, tripe, crap. If you can't dance to it, it's not music, it's not pop. Which it isn't but I still like some pop. Everything Everything, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Talking Heads. The difference is, it's all progressive in the truest sense of the word. Genesis, progressed in the true sense but does that alone make it good, no. It's all down to personal taste. I like all their albums up to Seconds Out. After that, well. and then there were three I've grown to appreciate but not love, all the others have one or two tracks I like but not enough to buy the albums. No, not often the long tracks either, Mama for example is great but the rest of the Genesis album is not great to my mind. However, Duke for some reason I love. As I say, it's not down to being quality, it's down to personal taste and what people like and that's harder to pin down. After all that, does not liking the 'pop' Genesis and loving the 'prog rock' Genesis, make me a prog snob? I don't love all Jethro Tull, after Stormwatch their albums became a bit hit and miss, for me personally. Did Frank Zappa make all great albums, of course not, although a lot of them are. Elton John was always pop but most of his albums up to A Single Man I love. What is prog rock? A title music mags and radio put on it. When I was growing up it was just Progressive Music. Fusion was prog, Jazz was prog, Avant-garde was prog. Prog was anything that was new and experimental at time of release. It wasn't a style. It's become a style over the years. For me, bands like IQ, Pendragon, The Flower Kings, early Marillion are not prog. They copied a style, that's not progressive. Although, Marillion did become progressive thanks to Fish leaving. Prog Rock now, is no longer progressive it's a style. Originally, it wasn't a style, that's why all those original artists were so different. Now, does that make me a snob? Well my wife say's I'm a music snob. I say, probably yes I am and thank goodness for that because my music collection is vast and very varied so my listening pleasure is so much more than just being able to dance to it, although I can to some of it.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Thanks for this reasoned and eloquent reply. I have a video coming out tomorrow about prog snobbery. Watch that and get back to me. I may pick some of this up in another video, you have basically raised all the points I want to discuss. Of course the label 'prog snob' is a bit click baity I'm afraid. All music taste is based on discrimination which will always be snobby essentially. I think what I'm driving at is the way prog fans shoot themselves in the foot and can't see the real lineage of this form. Here is an article a I wrote that goes into a great more depth about this: drummerandyedwards.blogspot.com/2019/08/progressive-rock-punk-and-english.html

[@stuartraybould6433]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I'll read the article when I have more time. My comment was written quite quickly and I had to edit but I wanted to make a few quick personal points. It's far too complicated to make in a simple comment on KZbin. I do realise that I'm maybe in the minority when it comes to so called Prog Rock. My personal view is as it was when a teenager. My music taste is progressive in the real sense, I am still constantly looking for the new and inventive. A good many prog rock fans seem to be stuck with the 70's or something of the style of Genesis and Yes. I still listen to the albums from that time but I've not stopped listening to new music either. Don't get me wrong, I still like some prog rock like The Flower Kings, Wobbler and others but that I don't class it as Progressive like others do. To me it's just Rock music. Truly Progressive Music as moved on from that style and so have I and others. We still listen to it but we listen to a lot of other stuff too because Progression never stops. What I'm trying to say is that the truly progressive artist changes and that's as it should be. That doesn't necessarily mean the fan will always follow where they go. For me, with Genesis, it wasn't so much that the music changed but that personally, I just didn't think the later songs/albums were very good. They didn't fit my personal taste. Something about them I just didn't like and that's hard to quantify. Hard to pin down. The guitars weren't as good, the lyrics lost something, the music became too simplistic somehow, they became a bit for me, basic, normal, a bit less than it was before, nothing different. If that makes sense, it's very hard to explain. You could have a deep conversation in the pub with a group of music lovers and learn a lot from everyone but your own taste and opinions wouldn't change and nobody would agree with everything everyone said, even if they all liked the same artists.

[@stuartraybould6433]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer So read your article and mostly agree. I hated Punk though, couldn't understand that, felt it was going backwards at the time, why go back to simple forms, for me, the more inventive and complicated, the better. However, I liked The Stranglers and Siousie and the Banchees, along with Magazine, Joy Division, Dead Can Dance and others but didn't consider them as Punk. More New Wave. Then loved Talking Heads but that's no shock as both Fripp, Eno and Adrian Belew played with them. As I said, there is a line of distinction now between Progressive Music and Prog Rock There are many, maybe even most Prog Rock fans stuck in that style. Not all though, many prog fans are like me, open to anything new and truly progressive. So although difficult it would be nice if opinions weren't generalised. It's become a style, it hadn't used to be.

[@multi-purposebiped7419]

You echoed something I feel very strongly about. To cut a long story short, the moment Prog becomes a genre, it becomes, by definition, generic, and consequently ... not progressive. Every thinks a band has to be comparable to KC/Gen/Yes to qualify. What a load of tosh. I was there and aware in the late sixties. We didn't try to define prog but we knew it when we heard it. And those three groups didn't even exist. So who was prog back then? Well, nobody even used the word "progressive" before Traffic appeared. We then started branding other groups as progressive because it was a great description. But there was no similarity you could think of between Traffic, Family, The (sic) Soft Machine, Jethro Tull, or The Nice.

[@multi-purposebiped7419]

And so from a _rational_ prog purist's point of view, as soon as a band becomes convergent, it becomes unprogressive. When Genesis started sounding less like Genesis, not because they weren't doing Foxtrot II but because they were converging with mainstream, it wasn't prog any more but refined pop. BUT THAT doesn't imply it was (all) lousy. There's still a place for well conceived and well executed pop.

[@asmallwhitedog0479]

Foxtrot

[@notmikey]

Wwwwwwell known Bognor restaurant owner disappeared early this morning...

[@ChristienGagnier]

I came to Genesis via Classic Rock radio playing singles from Three Sides Now and Phil"s early solo hits. Then I accidentily bought a ragged album at Sam's by Genesis called Genesis Live with a spooky cover and I put it on the record player and wenT WOW and started looking at the back and there was a surreal story that I didn't understand.

[@matthewhearn9910]

Bit late to comment on this as I'm just discovering your videos. I find it very interesting that prog and punk fans, though they tended to hate each other (even now, to an extent, though the coolest people I know all love both), more or less fell into the same purity trap as each other when it came to what you could and couldn't do in their respective genres. It's ironic enough when Progressive Rock fans don't like their bands Progressing, but when Punk fans don't like their band failing to conform it's honestly another level of that for me given the genre's statement of rebellion. But outside of that "ideological" context both groups of snobs are exactly as insufferable as the other.

[@roberthubbard3302]

'Duke' is a much better album than 'And Then There were Three'.

[@Guls574]

I also came to Genesis - and by extension, Prog - via Three Sides Live, and totally concur with your comments. There are songs from most of their albums that I'm less fond of than others but I've never subscribed to the notion that the band 'sold out'. I enjoy most of the first disc as much as the second - with the exception of Misunderstanding, which never grabbed me - but I can still remember the first time I heard the medley, because I had never heard anything like it. There were some familiar elements: Phil Collins' voice - ubiquitous in the '80s obviously; I was a fan of thrash metal, so Chester Thompson's double bass licks and Daryl Steurmer's squalling solos were cool, but unlike many of my rock-loving peers, my gateway drug to popular music was Pet Shop Boys so I loved keyboard-based music too. Hearing In The Cage Medley for the first time was a lightbulb blowing in my brain. Still one of my favourite albums by anyone, never mind Genesis.

[@Frip36]

Franck: "I've never subscribed to the notion that the band 'sold out'." What would a Genesis sell-out sound like to you? If "Invisible Touch" isn't a sell-out sound, then the term is meaningless.

[@joelynch4698]

One hundred percent agree that all Genesis throughout is genius level stuff. Well said in this video. I love it all. Except calling all stations that is.

[@david.leikam]

Tony Banks, calling Tony Banks!? 🤔

[@stewarttiley9683]

I love all of the Genesis catalogue, but for me Duke is their true masterpiece! A perfect album; even Misunderstanding works in the running order. The book ended overture and outro are so incredibly powerful! Duchess is sublime and Duke's Travels is a Tour De Force prog performance! This was the last truly great Genesis album, but good stuff still followed!

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

There is a strong argument that Duke is the summit of EVERYTHING they did....

[@per-arnejonsson9063]

For me "Duke" is the beginning of the end. Really boring music and after that I never bought any more Genesis record.

[@andrewkatai521]

They were past it by then

[@sharatssaxophone]

The 4th side in the US version of 3 sides live has some studio cuts from 79.. I have to hear the English version

[@dennismason3740]

Can't Hurry Love hurts my bones yet abacab makes me dance. I'm going to be brutally honest, Britain: Don't play Motown style unless you make it totally original and totally funky, your way. Do not imitate that form, I'm beginning to suspect that Britain hasn't quite mastered the American forms. Australia, on the other hand, do amazing r'n'b' of stratospheric nature. Diana Ross and the Supremes had an amazing, simple rhythm team behind them. I can't explain what that Motown thing is. Even Peter Gabriel couldn't imitate Motown when he tried (Sledgehammer) but his experiment is quite good. Got to get in to get out.

[@dennismason3740]

thank you. Remember Jimmy Page and Bonzo doing "James Brown" on Houses? In 1974 I literally scraped The Crunge (Grunge? Cringe?) with the business end of a butterknife. Once again, the Beatles did Motown interpretation right. Yes, Gabriel did an interesting job.

[@chriskarley384]

KANSAS!!!!😂

[@chriskarley384]

After I saw Genesis on the Abacab tour in my cities 9000 seat hockey arena, They absolutely proved that all the other bands that sounded like hell( "because of the acoustics in the barn") just didn't put enough money and effort into pleasing their fans!!!!!🙄They and, coincidentally Peter Gabriel were by far the absolute BEST sounding bands I have heard in the arena!!🎶🎶🎶🎶👐👐👐👐

[@palacerevolution2000]

I love the statement about prog bands you make, "if there was any worth to what they were doing , they would/could adapt; reign it in". (paraphrasing). I so agree. King Crimson was one of the truest, most vicious punk bands to ever come along. I hear them in the NYC Contortions, all the way to Faith no More. Maybe as time went on, and popular music became more and more a big money game, the focus shifted more to the US market. And if a band like Gentle Giant e.g was not able to adapt to an American sensibility, they lost their footing. I like your channel a lot, and learn so much from it. I wonder why it is that you ignore some artists tho.

[@RIPMMD]

Styx weren't even Prog IMO..

[@nathanadlerinc2790]

I don't agree they have the same sound in the 80s at all. Also. I loved 80s Genesis when I was young and hated the 70s. Then I started to like music that wasn't bland pop shit so therefore hate 80s and love 70s. Genesis80 really are terrible. Nothing against people that like it but I really feel they should have changed their name. And it's like Dahli suddenly drawing stickmen. Music for the masses. That like ANYTHING. I cannot stand 3Sides. Lamb is my fave. Andy you are fantastic

[@magicsinglez]

I just don’t understand their albums prior to The Lamb. They just sound like noise.

[@shirleymental4189]

I've always found the British/American Blues rock bands a bit of a puzzle, reaching it's zenith with the 'Stones, and Jagger's awful singing accent. Thankfully - pre prog - we had good Rock bands keeping it English. The Beatles, Kinks, Who, Small faces amongst others. I guess the Genesis split is largely an age thing, or at least which albums you were exposed to first. As someone who grew up with the Gabriel era Genesis I abandoned the 80's version because I didn't like it at all. Nothing to do with snobbery. I stopped being interested in Gabriel after the first four albums because I thought he got himself into a self satisfied rut.

[@iangelling]

So people are prog snobs, but they are so because they don’t understand music as other music snobs actually do? 😅 I think you need to give them some leeway there Andy. People are wary of pop Genesis, as good as they undoubtedly were, because e.g. Phil Collins introduced Blues Bothers’ numbers into the set. That Reading appearance in particular. Everybody needs somebody. Pork Pie hat on. Excruciating. On the other hand if people are snobby and dismiss them making the most of their sound to become popular, then that dismisses all that came before, and so it is self-defeating.

[@halcyon289]

Agreed . Most Genesis snobs have never played an instrument in their lives .

[@Alaskanbrawl]

Great point about Three Sides Live. The it/Watcher medley on side four is off the scale. Bruford and Collins owning it.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

(shhh...better than Seconds Out......)

[@RIPMMD]

Styx weren't even Prog IMO..

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

More prog than Boney M