My Top 5 - Annoying Amp Modeling Cliches

Today in Plague Scythe Studios, I talk about some of the things I hate about a category of guitar gear I love - amp modeling!
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[@AndreiGrozea]

Throwback to Neural DSP saying "the QC has IRs" in like 5 paragraphs last year when they announced it.

[@juanvaldez4043]

The interesting thing about line 6 is I think they’re own signature amps/plugins/cab sims sound better than they’re copycat stuff.

[@JonathanKillstring]

Badonk 4 lyfe

[@AJPMUSIC_OFFICIAL]

Big bottom master race

[@Metalbaum]

Insane is just made for brutal death metal

[@juanvaldez4043]

@@Metalbaum the “lunatic” amp model is pretty good too. I guess it depends on what product and version you have. Some of the settings people have mentioned, I don’t have on my unit.

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

@@Metalbaum Insane wishes it was a solid-state Ampeg. =3

[@wrongfuture]

Personally I'm sick of having to decode all those amp pseudonyms. Is "Brit" Marshall or Vox? Is "Cali" Mesa or Fender? Is "German" Engl or Diezel? the industry can't seem to decide on a non-confusing naming convention. Is it that hard to just use the original model name, with a trademark disclaimer?

[@devingrubbs]

Agree 100%

[@MarkHysteria]

Or let us rename all the components as we see fit.

[@luisbarrera5740]

If you have ears and know what theyre supposed to sound like that's all you need

[@chickenpasta7359]

Well this is what keeps costs down or allows us to have these amps all together. Why do you think GTA doesn’t have real car brands in their games?

[@heyjarrod]

Yeah, I just look at the grills, to see what they are mimicking. If that’s what you are kind of talking about. 🎸👍🏻 But some of those descriptors are pretty funny! 😝

[@PariahVSGear]

Sweet! Right on time haha. These are always fun. Hope you're doing well man.

[@LeonTodd]

"Visual vomit" hey *ART SGX has entered the chat*

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

It's like someone designed a preamp for Satchel and didn't get the joke.

[@hanovergreen4091]

I had one of those with the Ultrafoot contoller. Used gigging from 1991-1993. Tubes baby :)

[@Crowbar11115]

My top 5 problems with Digital Amps 1. That 5-8 kHz harshness. It's TERRIBLE. I hate it and it is a make-or-break problem for me. Neural...I'm looking right at you. This is why you haven't received a penny from me. I've dropped audio samples of Neural Tones/Kemper Tones and Fractal Tones into a spectral analyzer...you can literally see the choppy/edgy harshness in the Neural files. You can't EQ it out of the file. The literal shape of the Audio is jagged. That is a massive design error and for whatever reason, I was cursed with absurdly accurate hearing (I work in Audio for a living) and can't "un-hear" the Neural Sound. 2: Noise Gates with no way to adjust the parameters. Hello again, Neural. Why on Earth can I not set the Release?? I don't want that weird woooof after a palm mute. I want a tight/responsive Gate even for my Clean Tones. What a bizarre choice to limit how I interact with THE VERY FIRST thing in the Chain. 3 Stock IR lists that don't flow together in a logical fashion. Hello, Fractal. There should be a simple way to group 4x10s, 4x12s, 1x8s and so on. Same with on-axis or off...same with cap vs edge. I should be able to check a few boxes and see only 4x12s on axis at 1 inch away then scroll through JUST those options. 4 Hidden/sneaky menus for common things Hello, Line 6. In Helix Native, it is VERY easy to overlook massive amounts of options due to dropdowns you might not even notice. Something as simple as Mono/Stereo is in a drop down menu...same with "Legacy" options. WHY ON EARTH is Panning a Guitar to the Left a process that requires like 3 menus, 7 clicks and repetition?? You have to do the same process to Pan to the Right. Haha. It's absurd. 5 Marketing some of these products as Guitar exclusive. This is a weird one but bear with me...As I said, I work in Audio for a living. I'm a full-time Voice Actor and I often have to handle the entire project from proof-reading scripts to directing myself, to all aspects of Mixing/Mastering and sometimes even creating the background Music from scratch. I use Helix Native ALL THE TIME. I use it to make Monster voices, I use it for Stereo Effects, I use it to mimic a Megaphone... that's just for speech. For music, I actually have Helix as an insert in FL Studio. Sometimes a synth line needs some "movement"...U-Vibe to the rescue. Sometimes I need a little grit...Minotaur to the rescue. Line 6 in particular is REALLY missing out on marketing Helix Native as an all-purpose Audio FX suite. They made HX Effects FFS..now do the same in "Native" form and chop the price down to match. If they offered just the Effects for like $99 it would sell like crazy! I literally use Helix Native more as a Multi-Effect suite than I do as a Guitar-based plugin. Marketing these products to a new demographic not only boosts sales but it creates an entirely new conversation for features and updates that Guitarists might not even think of. Everyone would benefit.

[@f.s.1250]

About number 1: I also have a problem with the high mids and up with some recorded speakers. The often found ~4kHz peak in speakers is achieved by letting the cone resonate in itself or "flex". I guess putting a mic very close can find some nasty peaks and result in a sort of "pssss" sound that is just impossible to remove. Right now I prefer just putting an omni off axis at enough distance (up to 0.7m) in front of the cabinet. That works with a decent room or outside, and a dialed in sound that already works in the room. And yeah, most programmers just can't design GUIs -- OriginPro9 with its 10k€ license is a horrific example of that.

[@poulwinther]

Interesting post. Which type of tone do you mostly hear the jagged 5-8kHz? I like some of the Neural brootz tones but not much else.

[@ileutur6863]

Dude literally just load up Pro Q3 and dial the frequency out. Don't give me that crap about how it can't be removed, that's not how sound works

[@Crowbar11115]

@@ileutur6863 Ignorant comment. Go ahead and do that in the STAND ALONE version.

[@guitartoneSA]

You didn't insult the Kemper. 🥇👍

[@eliaskapravelos7171]

All these reasons are why I use the fractal stuff, especially being able to design my own version of an amp, also rack gear looks cooler imo

[@Lantertronics]

I really like the idea of modelers helping you create amps that have never existed before.

[@palmmoot]

Dude I love your channel

[@RÅNÇIÐ]

Company: This product is the best thing that'll ever exist. Me: "Neat." *buys product* Company: *releases v1.01* Me: 😠 *sues for false advertising*

[@brandonkeever6457]

A great thing about Fractal Audio is if you pay for shipping to and from, they will model your amp and put it in the firmware. Real consumers have sent their personal amps to FAS to get it modelled, just for the price of shipping. One could argue that's exactly the point of profiling an amp like a Kemper or QC, but it depends on your workflow, if you want to have your amp on the Fractal platform or Kemper or whatever.

[@nedludd3641]

I'm watching this a year later and it still rings true. I just watched a vid about a lunchbox valve amp that's the GOAT. It must be true. A load of YT-ers who review amps and get amps sent to them for free, say so. Good vid, Tex

[@nicholasdasilva5699]

"... Dark age in the early to mid-2000's ..." DigiTech GNX series has entered the chat.

[@billybell1300]

Hey, new here to the AX8 gang!!! I love your videos on how to tweak out some tones. Very helpful. Just want to say thanks for your time.

[@givemeajackson]

on the last point, that's like when people claimed that far cry one looked "photorealistic" in 2004 and continued dragging that phrase through the dirt on every single somewhat good-looking new game...

[@geraldbolso1899]

Thanks dude, you always make me not spend my hard earned money on stupid "next best amp sim engine" plugins.

[@RubyRoks]

I'm so glad you called out "Too many Marshalls" Even Positive Grid Bias has 4 marshalls, a hiwatt, and an orange modeled from factory. I really don't need a JCM 900 clean if i have a JTM45, and i don't need a super bass if i have a super lead! JTM Super lead 800 Either a Friedman or Orange that's all you need unless you're making models for the Marshall Code. Everything else is either close enough already, or tweakable

[@kenkreisel6890]

One of things I would like to see in the future for hardware is the ability to load and unload the amps, cabs and FX you want to have. So I have something like a HX Stomp. I can hook it up to the computer, find all the stuff I’m not gonna use and get rid of it, like a Vox amp or a Tilt EQ or phaser. Then find stuff I want to use, like a Diezel Herbert, a Perseus Fuzz or a 10 Band EQ in their shop or cloud. Just as an example. Like Amplitube and TH-U it’s Custom Shops in the frame of a floor modeler. As well as owning both the amp/cab/fx for the modeler and the plugin.

[@CoolestMcGuy]

i love the videos with a bit of a ranty undertone

[@seventhsealhere]

Great overall viewpoint, thx for sharing. As you know, the Ax Fx has the Tone Match feature which can also be used to model an external amp or external “sound” one is looking for. I also believe FAS is working on a Revv amp model as well which, while isn’t the same as an Omega or Fortin Nameless, shows FAS is aware of customers’ desire for more unique models and could be added at any time with fw updates. You could even get close with current custom models like you showed with tweaking since the “sound” is really what it is all about, not the amp model itself, just as you say. I agree with you, if you want simple stick with the Authentic or a Basic tab in the Fractal amp block and don’t touch anything else. But cool to have options later if you find the desire to tweak more. Informative video. I like these, always great to see other perspectives. It’s a great time for guitarists with all these wonderful digital options! 👍

[@WholeLottaBulldog]

You make some very good points, Ryan. Love these rants. I look forward to more.

[@suniso370]

I absolutely agree with your point about "good ol' days" mentality... I want to try more Randalls in modelers.

[@bradylasserre9320]

I see new Plague Sythe vid, I click like.

[@arfoe]

Looking forward to your record man. 🤘

[@moonsuga]

I agree, some people just like to tweek endless options on shitty industrial looking UIs, I am exactly like that! I think a good compromise would be to keep the current slick, simplistic design and just have an "advanced" button which would then allow you access to the hidden options. I see the same things happening in video games as well where they try to make them so user friendly that sometimes it subtracks from the experience - I LIKE learning a lot of buttons to control my character

[@MrJam1001]

Is it true that they claim a 2 gigahertz processor on the neural DSP but it's actually a 500 MHz processor with four cores running at 500 MHz each because that's not how it works in the PC world as far as I know.

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

Believe me I know, Leon and I ripped them apart for that marketing garbage in our NAMM video lol

[@gustanoid]

@@PlagueScytheStudios I can't find that part. Could you please provide a timecode?

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

You are correct on both counts!

[@non-continuum]

You are amazing dude! Continue with videos like that. Awesome!!!

[@thatguyreiji1045]

17 minutes in and I totally agreed with everything you said...Guess the only thing I wanna say is I wish people would stop hating on modellers/simulators its literally in the name... Model or simulate it's not implying its a 100% soldano or a marshall and like you said(paraphrase)...One would get a modeller cause you couldn't afford the actual amp or some folks live in apartments and cant just turn the tube amp to 10...And, that's the beauty of sims and modellers, they create the niche for those who suffer from the constraints of owning physical gear...Im sure if everyone could buy a JCM 800,A dual rec or 5150 they would...But not everyone has the luxury...Overall a thumbs up from me...Very informative...

[@kevinfeatherstone6062]

I can remember in 1988 when I went to a friend of one of my buddies house's to jam. I think he had a Roland GP8(I think) with footcontroller and a STeinberger! It was probably a garbage tone, lots of unusable presets, but I remember thinking that this was going to be the future. Fast forward to 2021 we can look back on the gear and actually say it HAS gotten really good! Have some fun making that album!

[@antares4975]

never noticed that kamper uses the sykrim dragon logo

[@JonathanKillstring]

Familiar with analysis paralysis? Being presented with too many options can absolutely crush user experience. That said, I'm totally with you on wanting an under the hood option. Give me a tab to open up additional options, for sure. But I'd rather not have those cluttering up the interface unless I specifically want them.

[@ayusharipirala3121]

I think a main reason to have point number 4 is that each modeller (for hardware) is that they don't run common PCBs but instead run embedded systems that are optimized for that unit's software, I/O, Processing etc. The reason tech geeks can testbench between 3 different intels/AMDs or the last few generations of GPUs is because those hardware units are meant to be general purpose (not restricted to doing a minimum number of tasks but extremely well)

[@mr.esabsurditiesatrocities1805]

Another outstanding and timely video. Timely because thanks to my pandemic bucks, I got my Axe FX III last week. 1. Thank you Ryan. Your videos and many of your tones were the driving reason that I decided to commit finally to getting an Axe FX after years of being on the fence and having been disappointed by other digital products. Even the ones I liked were not quite up to what I wanted, but the III has completely surpassed my expectations. Hell, I was able to get a tone I’ve been chasing in part for well over a decade with it. NOTHING else has got me there. So thank you very much good sir. 2. I completely agree with your point about the lack of deep features. That was the secondary reason after the quality of tones that brought me to Fractal to begin with. That tone I mentioned above, I got there by swapping the power tubes to KT88s, dropping the Sag nearly as low as can be without turning it off, and lowering the B+. Tube bounce and impedance interactions with a nearly solid state feel. This alone was worth the purchase. 3. I think my biggest issue with the entirety of digital amp devices in the lack of variety and with few exceptions, quality of the IRS and speaker simulations. I cannot tell you how much I have grown to dislike the V30/SM57 combo. There are so many other speakers and a ridiculous number of mics out there that get almost completely ignored. And that’s kind of my truest issue with modeling. In a paradoxical way, it’s brought a level homogenization that didn’t exist before. Even with everyone chasing the Marshall tone, of the hot rodded tone, or the 5150, or the Recto, there was still variety because you had to have folks putting real mics on real speakers, and you can get large discrepancies between the same models of each of those. Not to mention placement and room. Now you get “mix ready” tones at the push of a button. Great if you like the same generic and kinda shitty mixes many metal albums have had for the past decade. The ability to craft something unique is unparalleled now both in ability and accessibility, but we often wind up with “I’m and individual! Just like everyone else.” And I don’t know if that’s a gear/company problem, or a user problem. I’m trying my best to be me and am incredibly happy with what the III has offered so far.

[@ahriik]

Very good points, I've felt the same way for a lot of stuff (looking at you Zoom G3n/G5n/G11/G6...). I have nothing against a comparably small number of amp models as long as the tone variety is there. I'd rather have 25 really well-modeled amps that cover squeaky clean to aggressively distorted rather than 150+ mediocre amps with only a handful that actually sound good. I do like that IR loading is becoming a standard feature for even budget-level effects/amp processors, I think that a good IR does make a somewhat "meh" amp model significantly more lively than some of the garbage stock cab sims I've heard.

[@SolarWarden88]

Well said my man, as always. Keep the vids coming!

[@amdenis]

Great Video, so well done with so much care and useful information. Thanks! We have been using Line 6 for about 7 year or so, and have a great base of a few hundred amps/cabs and lots of presets we have created or downloaded. We use the Helix Rack and Floor for bass, guitar and electric violin. We do a lot of wet-dry-wet and 4/6 cable method as well as simpler straight-through stuff. I love the things we are able to do with them, but was wondering if you had a recommendation on a supplementary creative tool for experimentation and to evolve some new creative options. Which of the newer options might you recommend?

[@Jumpinzackflash0398]

So happy you mentioned the UI race to the bottom. Out-of-the-box good is great and all, but I love tweaking with the technical aspects of my gear. My go-to amp sims are still Bias Amp 2 and Revalver 4 because while the modelling is no where near perfect on all modules with either of those plugins, they let me tweak my sound to my heart's content. They may be really easy to make sound bad, but every other time I use them, I find another trick to make them sound better. They're the only two pieces of software that I can think of that offer that tweakability in my non-AxeFX friendly budget.

[@bobbyincidemetal]

Thanks, dude! I absolutely love your channel. You have taught me some things.

[@RobJMeronek]

With the modeling amp stuff I have a tendency to look for the best distortion amp (to my ears) and the best clean amp and use those exclusively once I’ve weeded out which ones they are. The variety in my recordings then comes from writing interesting song parts and since I like my pedalboard I’ll mostly use delays, reverbs, or modulation from that, so that if I switch to an actual amp I can recreate the effects I used accurately.

[@devingrubbs]

Great video! I agree about the “Good Ol Days” approach that companies take modeling like 1000 Marshalls and older amps like that. But at the same time, I feel like you can get a contemporary sound more easily than you could get one of these sims to feel like a Vintage amp set to edge of breakup. I get close with Arch Plini but that’s def the missing link. I can get pristine glassy plucky cleans and brutal high gain tones all day with sims but for that middle ground I gotta break out the loadbox 😅

[@danc3746]

I have an issue with people selling profiles packs. All the ones that I have purchased in the past (no matter who from), didn't sound anything like the amp. I see the first thing new users asking is "what profiles should I buy", when in fact some of the best profiles are available for free.

[@gus3333]

in my Line6 pod go, I have been playing A LOT until I could find a usable heavy tone, not the best but usable

[@AdamManley7]

I used to have it and loved it but man I switched to the boss GT-1000 and the feel of it is way more fun to me. The sound I got from it was classic boss it just had my kind of tone to it, that AIRD is no joke.

[@jackbootshamangaming4541]

Your first point, I have brought that up to nearly every dev I've talked to. Why do we have so many 5150s, rectos, and all that, instead of more conceptual/idealised amps. The Audio Assault Classics are cool, groovelabs has a few that are mixed characteristics. The Otto is really cool, that is the most in that realm I think of any of them. Glad to hear you also agree with this.

[@shanecollins9282]

Deep editing is exactly why I jumped to the FM3 over the HX Stomp. I don't need to use extra blocks in an already limited device to change the sound of an amp that's close to what I want but not exactly. I can get my basic tone with a drive, amp and cab instead of adding an extra eq block or stacking amps and cabs. It saves DSP and I personally love editing patches and trying to make the different channels as close to the real thing as possible or at least my take on it.. Just my opinion though.

[@barrygomez5968]

What's up Ryan!! Always love the videos🤘

[@PhilWilliams3]

An absolutely spot on review.

[@DaniMustangMeazzi]

Agree about the hundreds of presets pretty confusing while you just need basic classic sounds available within no more than 2 clicks👍 Always great vids btw!

[@toadnewt62]

Would be nice if someone came up with a modeller that had a completely fresh palette of amps, cabs and fx. No cliche gear models at all. Just all new reimagined stuff.

[@vadsmixinglab11]

but at the end of the day, the majority of the consumers want Marshalls, Fenders, Mesa's, etc...and the product's goal is to emulate them perfectly..

[@arthurmarques3598]

I hope IK Multimidia listen to the last thing..... They literally said that this version was just like the real thing, and then Neural came with the Soldano, an amp that Amplitube modeled too. And this is shit compared to neural

[@azzazelo]

Great video, marketing is straight up BS and in some cases even abusive. Also modeling obv has limitations because each amp even same make and model and year might sound different. This is common in vintage Marshall amps. I remember having a conversation about Nuno Bettencourt's tone on Waiting for the Punchline, and one of the people that worked on that said some tracks used an old fender with a slightly microphonic tube and that this gave the sound a unique character. Idk but I don't think we have a modeler that can control for that yet

[@metatron333ascension]

i was on headrush's facebook and i was telling them alot of stuff i want to know isnt in the description of the product. i want to know 1) can it run dual amps 2) can i reamp 3) can i load my own IRs? and how many? 4) what are the capabilities of the ins and outs alot of that jargon i do understand but for me when im trying to make a decision those top 4 are all i really care about sometimes they arent mentioned.

[@DigitalChemistryBand]

New to this channel... thanks for your insights... I've been a convert since 89', an original Rocktron Chameleon. Arguably the great grandfather of DSP units like the QuadCortex. It ran for 20 years doing club gigs...then Voodoo Valve, several POD... Now the PodGo... despite its perceived "limitations", in relation to units 2 to 4 times its price, it's been a game changer. My whole live rig has been downsized to the POD, a wha, and volume pedal. Add a stereo power amp, and 2 2x12 cabs, and voila... instant workable tone for any live situation. Mind you, I have been programming these units since 89', and if I've learned one thing, it's... close your eyes... listen... my current set up is 4 variations on a theme... after trying the Soldano (my favorite from the the HD500), the Revv Red, I settled on the 5150... gain structured to get almost clean when input gain is dropped... as Fricker says, the cab model (IR) is a bigger game changer. I chose the HIWATT 4x12 with a md421 at 3" from the cab. Low mid focused with a smooth top end. No bacon frying tone at all.... Since I run in mono, no need for stereo effects... so the options for efx routing are huge... an 808 for more drive... a phase 90, or... Eventide pitch shifter, for color... Post IR, a 4 tap chorus... and delay... post all of that, a parametric eq acting as solo boost... add an extra delay pedal in the efx loop, and YEA... everything I need to approximate the Lifeson live tone, in a very compact floor setup. And it has to be said... no one asks what gear I used for the show since I hide the power amp and cabs behind fake 4x12 stacks... the interaction between the live speakers, lopo slant 2x12s, with 5150 and G12m70 speakers, and the IR output from the PODGO, is critical... tuning your rig using the IR parameters is paramount... just mic models make huge differences... As to the info overload with these units... remember... its a tool... not a lifestyle. Play Every Day.

[@DigitalChemistryBand]

Oh... forgot... the expression pedal on the PodGo is dedicated to the delay mix only... a huge factor in live performances.

[@Lantertronics]

What's the photo of the strange contraption at 2:57 from?

[@chrisbrown6472]

Great comments, yeah, so correct about the updates. And I totally miss the great/terrible colors of the 90s gear, ART was the best, all splashed with hyper color pinks and purples across my rack effects and the X-18 foot controller that was huge. There were so many presets that were unusable, but I actually ended up tweaking some of the step delay and pitch shift ones into song parts. Oh the days of syncing the ADA and the Marshall mp preamps with several other effects rack units with the midi pedal, I do enjoy the fractal now, funny how I'm still spending as much time playing with and editing sounds as I spent writing down the midi correspondence between the units and the actual pedal controls for complete patch and preamp switching. And I keep trying to make the synth sounds work, c'mon everyone loved those barely tracking physical add ons that made the guitar a flute. Yay. All groovy vibes:)

[@Astral_Wave]

Reason I'm on the fence about all of this is, even if the product is great, is it not going to be at the whim of the quality of speakers you have? What's best for me? FRFR? Real guitar cab? Solid state or tube power amp? Near field studio monitors? Headphones? If spending near or over $2k wasn't enough, now I have to spend additional hundreds if not thousands to make it worthwhile in the end. Great if you already happen to have some of that stuff, but if not 😬.. it becomes two sets of option paralysis and well over the price of a real amp if you're not one to want dozens of various sounds after you've weeded out all the useless ones.

[@colelewis9940]

Typical high gain rig. Peavey 5150 = 1000$~ Ibanez TS9 = 100$ Noise gate = 200$ Mesa 4x12 = 1400$ Delay pedal = 100-200$ Right there you are about at 3 grand. You are getting extremely limited sound option of having no clean channel and just the peavey sound. More typical now, is the same basic rig expect, a more expensive "boutique" tube screamer clone. Noise gate probably going to be more like 300$. And EVH 5150 is the most common amp now so thats an extra 1 grand more than if you had a regular 6505/5150. So you are looking at 3-4+ grand in that setup. And you have zero ability at all to record yourself. To listen to music on high quality speakers. To play with drum tracks. To play along with music. etc Modeling rig options. Line 6 pod go = 500$ Studio monitors. Ryan uses Presonus Eris those are like 400 max for a pair. Kali is the most popular option the most you will spend is 800$ on their most expensive pair. Audio interface = 200$ or less. With a modeler you dont have to worry really what the quality of your interface is so much. I literally have a 100$ focusrite solo from 10+ years ago that still works fine. I record with my axe fx 3 or my engl ironball into the interface. At that point you are looking at, somewhere around 1000-1500$. Thats half the 5150 rig. And you can record yourself. Play to drum tracks. Listen to music on good speakers. Make it the Kali IN8 the best option kali has. That rig would be about 1500$. Add the best quality FRFR systems to that already existing rig you STILL will be spending less money than the 5150 rig. For some reason you don't like to listen to music or record yourself or anything like that? Get just the FRFR. Again... HALF the money as the 5150 system. Idk sounds to me like you have not thought this through very hard. All the stuff you mention you don't need. You DO need. If you want to actually record music. if you are just some dude with zero ambition whatsoever then idk. Maybe you should look into a line 6 spider.

[@colelewis9940]

And if you have option paralysis with the modeling speaker options. I know 100% you have the same problem with analog gear and do not tell me otherwise lol. The problem is never the gear it's you.

[@reav3rtm]

@@colelewis9940 Out of curiosity, why would one buy audio interface in addition to Pod Go. Each Line 6 since old bean worked like USB audio interface.

[@colelewis9940]

@@reav3rtm You don't have to

[@cnutella9947]

Dude thanks for verbalizing the exact same issues i have with many of the modelers. I love fractal but where does the processing power of the FM3 fall in relation to the Axe II and the Axe III. I don't care how much ram it has... does it work? Great video.

[@joaocunha]

Hey buddy, I really like your content. Another nice video. I’d like to make a quick counterargument, tho. I’m a tech product manager working in a completely different industry, but I can relate to what these companies are trying to do. When you say you’d love to tweak the guts out of these simulators and nerd about internal components, this isn’t necessarily representative of what the users want, but rather what *you* want. It’s not necessarily a matter of dumbing down the product or not trusting/treating customers as if they were stupid. In order to prioritize something along these lines, there should be a decent amount of evidence coming from research, both quantitative and qualitative to justify it is an actual need. It’s just a matter of electing which are the most important pain points to solve and solving them well, while trying to find a few solid differentiators along the way. I’m sure that bias, resistance, and many other features were discussed by their product teams: they probably just didn’t make it through because it’s not very representative of what most people need, and there would be trade-offs in developing them (cost, go to market delay, UX issues, etc).

[@joaocunha]

Just adding that it’s super easy to get lost and ship a crappy Frankenstein while trying to accommodate for _all_ sorts of needs. But I feel your pain, and I also prefer a limited number of amplifiers/presets, but that can tweak them to my exact liking.

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

I understand where you're coming from.. My counter-counterargument: 1. If I hold this opinion, plenty of other would-be buyers do too. This isn't just about me. 2. If I never encountered the level of detail that AXE FX offers, I probably wouldn't care either. However, I think a big problem here is people don't even know they want something until they're exposed to it, so the more exposure the better. 3. Market research and focus group testing is what keeps bringing us an onslaught of unimaginative and redundant video games and movies that are devoid of personality or charm. I don't exactly put my faith in that methodology for guitar gear either. Everyone has to make a living, but if you're going to make a product (and one for entertainment no less) with no innovation or cost cuts that serves an identical function to a competitor's, there's no point in making it. 4. This shouldn't be a one or the other mentality. Two Notes Wall of Sound has an Arcade and Pro mode - I don't see why that would not be effective in amp modeling software.

[@azzazelo]

Sadly because of the ultra capitalist society we live in its really about risk. No one wants to take it, just maximum gain least risk. This kills creativity of course.

[@joaocunha]

I didn’t mean to say it’s only you personally, but _the niche you’re part of_ (in which I’m included by the way). I also made a big assumption that it isn’t a very representative niche for illustrative purposes only. There are times the niche is big enough to justify investments on it, and this is cool. There’s space for other players to tackle it. I don’t disagree with you in that creativity has to be nurtured, and that sometimes these processes seem to go against innovation. I for one think the Quad Cortex, for example, is a great unit but one that brings no breakthrough whatsoever. Great, more processing power allows for 4 simultaneous tracks so a whole band can use it. But apart from that, it’s nothing compared to what Line 6 did with the Pod at its time, or later on to Kemper/Axe FX. It’s a burden these companies have to carry: how to truly innovate while building something lovable that a sizable amount of people need and are willing to pay for. It’s super hard to tick all these boxes. I guess my point was more related to reducing a large part of this discussion to “they think we’re stupid and they don’t care”, which to me sounds a bit oversimplified, and to which I disagree.

[@GabiLotcu]

Man... i love you! I 100% agree with you!

[@ginoames]

Waiting for the Kemper people to say "It's a profiler not a modeling amp"

[@oldfart6938]

damn... i really like the no bull shit approach! ... keep it up mate

[@Polletross]

Your last point is spot on for tech in general and it’s annnoying. I know it keeps the business and interest going BUT I’m still listening to albums recorded with Axe II and I think tech is stretching more and more so I’m feeling confident the FM3 (or QC or Helix for others) should last long enough. At least fractal makes their UI insanely difficult so you never really have that much desire to upgrade. The tonality updates are marginal.

[@ShreddingFinn]

Paradoxical supremacy, so true, I think amp modelling has been quite sufficient for a while, and I laugh at all these new reviews of the SLO-100 from Neural..."its the best ever, it sounds so good!"...so does the helix

[@ian2lorimer]

Brilliant video....subbed

[@blendernoob64]

I think my main pet peeve with amp sims now a days is this hyper focus on prog metal guitarists, and them only. Every hyped up amp sim that comes out comes is endorsed by some producer or artists known for djenty stuff or proggy stuff. Don't get me wrong, they sound good, I like prog and djent, but I don't get why we need to focus on those types of players only. Why can't we get an Archetype Kurt Ballou or something where we have a unique set of amps like the Ampeg V4 and pedals like the Boss PS3 aimed at filthier players? Why cant we get a nice amp model of a Sunn Model T or Matamp Green amp for those who don't want to crank amps to 11 and destroy their neighbor's windows? I just want more variety than just clean, instant prog amps.

[@ileutur6863]

Two reasons, first being that those kinds of amps are predictable and easy to model, while the more noisy vintage stuff can sorta be all over the place and sound different every day. And second the main people buying this are metal bedroom players because they're the ones embracing new technology first

[@Polletross]

Just bought an FM3 and some of the built in presets were actually pretty cool. I was playing some cool soundtrack level ambient stuff. But totally agree, I want out of the box strong amp tones without having to go build my own (at least initially)

[@MrScrofulous]

These issues are why I keep using tube amps. Through multiple generations of sims trying (and to be fair, significantly succeeding) to model tubes , when I can just plug in a tube amp. Sure, they are heavy, loud and expensive, but they also effortlessly produce tones without hours of tweaking. Tubes also lack the “produced” polish that modellers give up so easily, and can be much less forgiving to play, which is good or bad depending on how you feel about that. Personally I find that demand to improve my playing technique.

[@toemasmeems]

Hey Ryan I’d love to see your honest opinion on the JST Loomis plugin, I think it has a lot of mojo and love the UI as it’s like a 90s cartoon LOL

[@12ealDealOfficial]

The marketing gimmicks, the flashy presets, and the oversimplification of the UI each seem built around alluring the masses on the most surface level possible, in line with the nature of marketing things on social media. It's funny; the most effective marketing I've seen in the last 10 years was a commercial on KZbin for a guy doing guitar lessons. This video was a nearly three minute long advertisement before a ten minute Anderton's video, and was a two camera angle cover of a John Mayer song. I watched the entire ad willingly, which ended with a slow fade out and the guy's contact information. THAT's how you show off a product. This Top 5 could also apply wholesale to the automotive industry of the last 15 years.

[@nethbt]

Like what they always say...it all depends on the photographer or the painter or the carpenter...they will just do an excellent job regardless of the tools or the gear that they have....A more experienced savvy guitar player with a POD XT Live will sound immensely better compared to a guitar geek with a Kemper. It's how you make the most out of it.

[@jfo3000]

POD sure works for Paul Wardingham.

[@markk9184]

"Visual vomit" LOL....... Looking forward to the new 'Grindy, Neanderthallic technical metal' album!

[@mxaxe5591]

Hey Ryan, great video again, as always. Thanks so much man ! Just my 2 cents here.. I am by no means, by any stretch, even close to being an expert on features etc. in the modeling stuff, my "knowledge" is extremely limited, ie practically non existant. That said.. I find more times than not, time spent "tweaking" and fucking around with every little thing trying to get that "perfect" replicated sound only just eats into my already limited playing time, not to mention that even my tube amps have "their" days when they just dont sound like they did the other day, lol. Funny thing is, my solid state amps AlWAYS sound the same, whether thats good, bad or indifferent, lol. Again, thanks for an excellent video man!🤘🤘🤘🤘

[@ericcarpenter3263]

I love the fact that with a couple of button presses I can erase the factory presets on the Helix. I have no use for 7 sets of 4 times 32 presets instead of 5, but have have even less use for those wacky factory presets. Holy hell, those are terrible sounds “who doesn’t love 3 delays and 100% mix of a crazy reverb”.

[@AlexH8280]

The "Good Ol' Days" approach of focusing on classic amps is actually the safest bet being that the majority of marketable music out there is actually NOT metal, and if it uses guitar, it will be a low-gain, vintage amp sound more often than not. Guitarists are not the only ones amp sims are aimed at, but producers as well in any genre.

[@mikeposs]

Very well said ! 👍My general and simple personal experience - modelers are great in studio, they suck live. However a combination of a good tube amp (I personally use Marshall Plexi and Brunetti SingleMan) and a modeler (Fractal units for coloring and effects in 4C setup) works perfect for me live and I try to tweak as little as I can ...... In a studio I use modelers however I have about 10 favorites I developed in a long time of adjusting and that is it. For me a modeler might have 10 perfect basic presets to make me happy enough. ...... Anyway thanks for interesting videos and bright ideas !

[@ack9049]

Can you please do a review of the boss gt 1? It is about 210 dollars or 185 euros and I own one for about three years now. I used to love it, but since I got a boss katana It sounds bad to me. Maybe you think otherwise

[@kenmasters007]

1. Excessive tweaking... to get a useable tone 2. still way too techy for some traditional tube guys 3.. Too many options when most only need 3-4 usable tones

[@Burnt_Gerbil]

I just have an Orange OR15 and 4x12. No, it’s not the “latest and greatest” tech. It is reliable and I like the sound. That’s all I care about. I don’t need endless options. 😬

[@dasenase]

if i see another david gilmour preset on line 6's tone page I'm gonna KMS.

[@rd_rae]

Nice comparison to gfx cards - it‘d be relevant to mention compute power of modellers if it would make the sound better, which it doesn‘t obiously

[@f.s.1250]

They love to give you technical specification, but almost always it is impossible to find the supported input and output levels as well as the input and output impedance. I want to know for which levels these devices were designed, which usually are switchable, and when they actually clip. With SI units.

[@cmd_f5]

Good points. I don't even pay attention to the "this sounds like the real amp" marketing thing now. It's just noise. Clearly different modelers sound different with the same base amp model, so it's really a choice of what works for a given tone rather than how accurate it is to hardware. Plus as others have stated harware tolerances being what they are makes modeling accuracy almost impossible, at least until someone does some algorithm that can pick arbitrary values for caps and resisters or voltage or.... etc. Almost never use presets. If the plug is laid out good, I should be able to design tones from nothing and go from there. Shouldn't be rocket science. UI is not really important. Blind, so I use automation parameters for everything anyway. The graphics are good if you can see them I guess lol. About fifty Marshall models and only a handful of high gain stuff, I couldn't agree more. Either add more variants or change the goal of who the product is aimed at. Peace man

[@fedboy21]

I only have 1 annoying thing with digital modelling...its to much option!!!! it makes me dizzy when trying one by one...and it literally really dizzy, my head was spinning and im throw up to much looking at the pc monitor

[@trunks828]

Ah I hate when they say it sounds just like the real thing than a new update comes out and that’s no longer cool. I’m a huge fan of amp modeling but the gimmicks gotta stop they all sound good. In my opinion there’s two that are king. Kemper with the power amp so you can record and play gigs with a speaker cab and axe fx for the point you put out there all the editing in the world can be done. All other companies they sound great they all sound good in there own way but those two to me personally stand out. Personally. I play bass into a darkglass 500v2 amp into a interface and it’s plug and play in seconds.

[@akaboo69]

Great points dude. So what style is your EP?

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

More info will come out in the weeks preceding it's release. To put it briefly: if Siderum is my take on prog metal, this EP will be its equal opposite. Grindy, Neanderthallic technical metal.

[@LeeronCarbuncle]

I don't like the "It's getting really good NOW!" that's been said with every new modeler that comes out. When the original Axe-fx came out it was "This is amazing!" but then the 2 came out and suddenly the standard and ultra weren't good enough anymore, then the 3 came out and suddenly the 2 isn't good enough anymore. Funny that it's even happening with the EVH amps as well, gotta have that EL34 Stealth Mini Ultra Plus.

[@pauloesterle9823]

I'm a little late to the video brother I just watched your video every single thing you said is absolutely right

[@jonduke3919]

I have a line m13 for me It’s perfect it sounds more analog than most of my analog. I program 6 for mods 3 verbs 3 delays I don’t dig the the drives and distortion. To me they just sound to digital. Now in all fairness your ears are different, I will say if ur gig a lot it’s perfect for u even the drives. My rig has always made any amp sound good, here’s a mine mine blower my daughter got me 2 electro harmonix MiG 50s and 2 Marshall mx212’s I run one through one to the low out put and one through the now i did have to change the cheap celestions to,green backs I have not touched my other amps.

[@JeffHendricks]

Summary: it's the marketers that ruin everything.

[@toemasmeems]

My lackluster guitarist thinks his Axe FX III is the end all be all as I mostly think he’s trying to justify his 3k purchase meanwhile my Orange Micro Dark Terror and Friedman BEOD pedal is hands down the sound in my head every time. It’s all just a means to an end. I personally spend all my money on guitars because of the inspiration each instrument gives me as opposed to amps.

[@raymondforbes4295]

I totally agree but at the same time it's a bit like "welcome to marketing". heh

[@bigsnacks913]

The over-the-top, "look what this thing can do!" settings are the worst. Though the first time I saw my friend cycling through a Spider IV head's presets I thought it was the greatest thing ever lmao. Wish it was still that simple.

[@Astral_Wave]

Try the vox vtx series amps*

[@keschgelb]

"THIS one is the real deal...." Sounds sooo corny. But that's how marketing works.And in most cases there are always enough people, who believe in this fairy tales. Unfortunately including me.... at least every now and then.

[@jimgraczyk6991]

Your content is great! But can you show how to make an awsome recording with just the bare minimums

[@12ealDealOfficial]

Right on time for lunch! Here's the comment for big daddy Algorithm.

[@davidwoods358]

I always want my 1st block to be a compressor. I don't know of any modeller that offers a dry "blend control" on the compressor (like my Keeley 4 knob) it's the secret sauce of that pedal and I use it 100% of the time on my amps. Also ... when will it become standard that all these modellers offer the capability to run dual amps and cabs, and stereo effects loops too?? Finally, I am one whom does not want to have to hook any device up to a laptop for updating and "more simple tweaking" I'm still using an old Boss GT6 until the right unit comes along, sad. I'll just play my amps and floor pedals in the mean time.

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

AXE FX / FM3 offer a wet/dry blend on all the blocks, sounds great with drives!

[@thatguyreiji1045]

Ahhh I have to agree with number 1...I wish guys would be more honest just say it sounds 70 - 90% close to the real thing(obviously exaggerated) but anyonr in their right mind would know it would never sound 100% like the real thing...I mean even physical amps have variations among themselves...Yes though dont deviate from the tones but there are times when one amp can sound different from another...Just say its based on a model of A,B,C we know its a modeller...But the fact that some people say ohhhh this sound exactly like the physical model...Thats just marketting in my opinion atleast.🤔

[@rtbmusic1135]

The Fractal forums are hilarious about this. It’s been 100% accurate amp modeling every.damn.firmware for YEARS now. They do great work at Fractal, but the cult mentality is real. Haha

[@6MileHouse]

I'll take the real amp every time.

[@pakiw2]

Baby jesus talks stuff.

[@zackwatson755]

Leaving a comment

[@alvarobermudez392]

Great