My Wife Doesn’t Think We Can Afford To Retire

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[@austinbar]

It's recommended to save at least 20% of your income in a 401k. You can use online calculators to estimate how much you should save based on your age and income. Saving at least 20% of your income in a 401(k) can help ensure that you have enough money to retire comfortably. By saving this much, you can take advantage of compound interest and potentially grow your retirement savings over time.

[@rogerwheelers4322]

Effective personal finance management is more important than the amount of money saved, regardless of whether income is earned through job or investment. Individuals can seek counsel from a certified financial advisor to optimize financial outcomes, who can provide specialized advice and methods to decrease expenses and maximize income.

[@joshbarney114]

I agree, that's the more reason I prefer my day to day investment decisions being guided by an advisor, seeing that their entire skillset is built around going long and short at the same time both employing risk for its asymmetrical upside and laying off risk as a hedge against the inevitable downward turns, coupled with the exclusive information/analysis they have, it's near impossible to not out-perform, been using my advisor for over 2years+ and I've netted over 2.8million.

[@FabioOdelega876]

I think this is something I should do, but I've been stalling for a long time now. I don't really know which firm to work with; I feel they are all the same but it seems you’ve got it all worked out with the firm you work with so i surely wouldn’t mind a recommendation.

[@joshbarney114]

I definitely share your sentiment about these firms. Finding financial advisors like Natalie Noel Burns who can assist you shape your portfolio would be a very creative option. There will be difficult times ahead, and prudent personal money management will be essential to navigating them.

[@FabioOdelega876]

Natalie has the appearance of being a great authority in her profession. I looked her up online and found her website, which I reviewed and went through to learn more about her credentials, academic background, and employment. She has a fiduciary duty to protect my best interests. I sent her an email outlining my objectives and also booked a session with her; thanks for sharing.

[@Slurm_Daddy92]

My grandpa's been retired over 20 years.. retired in his early '50s and still doing fine.. nothing's wrong with early retirement!

[@jeffdarleneriel5628]

Maybe wife doesn’t believe Dave’s lie that you can safely pull 8% from your portfolio in your 50,’s. Withdrawing an inflation-adjusted 8% from an equity portfolio is perilous at the best of times, but outright destructive for portfolios that start poorly. Such strategies misfire two thirds of the time if the first year's return is negative (again, after accounting for inflation). It only gets worse from there.

[@JohnBowl14690]

Statiscally, Dave will probably be right. Now that said, I think what you're really saying this that you are scared because the economy is dynamic, not static. I am too, but that said, statistically, Dave is right.

[@cdm9011]

⁠@@JohnBowl14690statistically Dave is 100% wrong. His 8-10% withdrawal rate idea is based on average market returns not actual yearly returns. It is a proven fact that you cannot draw 8-10% of money off retirement accounts and expect that money to last 30 years. Market returns vary throughout each year and over the long term average a certain 10-11% but on a shorter horizon they can average -1% over a 5year period and 5% over a decade. Imagine $1million and year one the market goes down 30%. $700k and you have planned to pull 10% of a million to live, $100k. Now you are down to $600k. Next year market recovers 20%, you are up to $720k but after living expenses down to $600k. Now let’s say you have 3 years of 10% returns in a row. You are now down to $467k. Then let’s say the market goes down 1% the next year, you are now down to $362k after your living expenses. Just to get your million back you would need just shy of 200% market returns. Otherwise you are about 3.5 years of running out of money. So your retirement went from 30 years to around a decade. And the market movements I described are very normal and could easily happen. 8-10% withdrawal rates do not work.

[@JohnBowl14690]

@@cdm9011 - Thanks. I noticed you used the word "can" and "could easily happen". I am talking statistics. I want to make it perfectly clear that I think 6-7% is better. But again, we are only talking about statistics. So my advice to you is that if you think 4% is right for you, then abide by that rule. But you're not convincing me differently about what the statistic reveal.

[@cdm9011]

@@JohnBowl14690yeah by all means you do you. But please look into this and try and find a single source out there besides Dave Ramsey who says you can safely withdraw 8-10% or even 6-7%. Since you keep mentioning statistics, I would love to see some in favor of that kind of withdrawal rate working.

[@swannyriver75]

She don't want him home all day doing diddly 😂😂

[@dougholdem2898]

I'm a little surprised Dave would advise a 55 year old caller that they can withdraw 8-10% a year and not run out of money. With a life expectancy of approximately 30 years, if he goes through a period like we did from June 1, 2000 when the S&P was at 1517 and December 1, 2008 when the S&P was at 735, and all the while withdrawing 8-10% a year, your sorry butt will be broke and looking for a job!

[@hopefilledfinancial]

I would be surprised, but Dave has given this advice on SWRs for well over 5 years to everyone of everyone from 30 through 60 and above.

[@KENTUCKYUSA1]

I am left wondering what the side hustle is. The guy started to say something like "I am handy" so I wonder if he is going to become a handyman or what? I wish Dave had not kept cutting him off. Handymen can make really good steady money, especially with all the single people around who don't know how to do anything practical. And, yes, the 8 to 10% withdrawal figure is ridiculous, especially when the market goes sideways for extended periods or drops like a stone. In retirement, your funds need to be safer than mostly invested in the stock market.

[@neeferpd]

Correct, and what part of creating a side hustle with a small business equates to not providing value in the marketplace? Geez I always hated Dave's cocky attitude but it's become so painful to even watch anymore the way he doesn't listen to callers or let them speak.

[@genxx2724]

@@neeferpd Dave’s point was it’s not a side hustle if you retired from your real job.

[@stewbugz5213]

I was screaming at the screen telling Dave to let the man finish his sentence!

[@USMC6976]

4% is ridiculous if inflation is 8% and you're only earning 6%. Dave never suggests taking 10% every year unless you're earning 10% + the rate of inflation. What I do see is all the gurus that have nothing claiming how bad his advice is. The 4% rule says you always take 4% regardless. It's based on the assumption you will eventually have $0 left.

[@KENTUCKYUSA1]

@@USMC6976 I have been retired for 16 years and my rule is to not dip into capital, to live on the excess, so the percentage points mean nothing to me. But it all depends on your dreams for retirement and how realistic they are. Many people delay living for "after they retire someday." Many want to travel extensively and expensively. Many have no savings and some have very large debt. Some have huge living expenses. This guy's wife may have big dreams and want to have a lot of millions. This couple apparently has never had a conversation about their hopes and dreams. There is a young child involved, not sure if the kid is his or theirs. No idea how long this marriage has gone on. I feel they may be many miles apart in vision. But Dave cuts him off and we never learn anything except that the wife is right. I am a wife and I know she may or may not have a valid point. But they are not pulling the load as a team. That is the problem.

[@unelectedleader6494]

Math isn’t the issue. She doesn’t want him not working and thus ‘around’ because either she’s up to no good, or she feels he’ll get into trouble.

[@Ck-pj3vu]

He said she makes most of the money so she doesn’t want him at home spending her hard earned money. He also said I have a kid not we have a kid so he will be using her money to take care of another woman kid. She wifed her husband. I hope she has a prenup.

[@Primitive_Code]

I think it's up to who contributed to this $2.5m worth. If it was him doing most of it, he can do whatever he wants and she's a jealous manipulator at that point. If it's not, he's a bum and she should divorce while has a prenup. Up to no good means an affair? That's possible.

[@acruzro95]

​@@Primitive_Codewhy would they divorce over something so stupid? Dude is 55 divorce and then do what? Die alone? Let these people stay married and be together unless they are trying to kill or rob each other they will be fine. The dumbest sht you can do before turning 60 is becoming single. No one wants you , you won't look or do any better, no one knows you other than your spouse you start getting sick and needing company. Why would anyone get divorce at 60 other than for 3 to 5 years of fame is dumb. I've seen it with my own eyes. This dumbass had an affair at age like 60 they she got divorce. Now she's broke and the young guy that was using her for her money is now with younger girl.

[@analyticalchick3064]

It seems like they're not accounting for inflation and medical expenses. Also, people die mostly between 65 and 95 so that's a wide range and they're not in shape for the longer end of that range.

[@michiperkins144]

Yes you’re right. She likes the money he has coming in and she can’t control what he’s doing all day not working

[@cutehumor]

My wife is the same way. I'm retiring at age of 54.5 with the IRS rule of 55. I'm 46 and we have net worth of 2.2 million right now. I have already told my wife I'm retiring in 8 years; she doesn't like it. The idiots at corporate I work with don't respect my time and my life. If I die on the job, they move on fast, I have had co-workers die. I'm moving on first at age 54.5 in the year I turn 55! Life isn't about working until you die. I didn't save this money so my kids can drive Ferraris when I die. I do plan on working on the side on my terms like this caller. I plan for a 25 year retirement if not more! by the way, WOMEN should work longer than men and retire later than men because WOMEN outlive men! I told my wife that already! lololol

[@Truckerdaddy]

Plus they tend to have less physically demanding jobs so it does take as much of a toll on their bodies like it does men

[@user-ey4ut9uc8w]

I agree with everything you said besides women working longer. You deserve that retirement though champ. I’m glad you’re not sticking around for corporate. Dave’s importance on “marketplace value” is weird. I wouldn’t give a rats ass about the marketplace if I could retire. Plenty of stuff to keep one busy 😂

[@megalodon1726]

At 55 you'll probably have more than $4M. When it's that time, you can retire and she can't force you to work. Imagine how misogynistic and controlling it would sound if a man told his 55-year-old wife she must not retire when they have over $4M.

[@summerforever6736]

Agree

[@benjaminhough8804]

He’s in his 50s. He could realistically live another 30-40 years (maybe more). How can he withdraw 10%?? Math does work, but 10% is an AVERAGE. One year it grows 20% and next 0%, that averages to 10%, but they don’t make anything in the second year (extreme example, but it illustrates the point). Seems like he outta withdraw at a more conservative rate and could withdraw more as he ages.

[@NoRegertsHere]

Yeah. Dave been called out on this many times. Opening himself up to litigation with pushing it.

[@Watchlover371]

Sounds like the husband is a lazy sod. Wife made most the money and then he wants to retire early

[@87vortex87]

Dave shouldn't give investing advice. Withdrawing more than 4% is reckless. Don't listen to Dave. 4% is maximum simply because of the sequence of return risk.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Withdrawing more than 1% is reckless.

[@robloxvids2233]

Dave knows how to get out of debt and likely a little about corporate real estate. He knows nothing about investments or retirement.

[@87vortex87]

@amireallythatgrumpy6508 That's also just a stupid remark on your side. Vanguard does research on sustainable withdrawal rates since the 80'ies and publishes this research each year. 4% is a good rate, that's what everybody refers to when people say 4%. So, now please substantiate your 1% claim with scientific research.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Why would I substantiate anything with scientific research when I'm talking to Americans here? Americans fear scientific research or any other kind of fact? Americans make everything up on the spot, including this "Vanguard" nonsense you speak of. @@87vortex87

[@happyday1060]

let the poor man retire and do what he wants

[@humblebee7979]

It's simple. The wife does not want you to stop working at this time.

[@drhoughton5481]

dave..... write out how you get 8 -10 % out of the retirement. plan.... everyone is crying about it your're awesome

[@birdseye2239]

Dave seems a bit crabby today

[@robertthompson5908]

I know that many have said this already here and on other videos, but can we just stop and take a second to marvel at the complete and total stupidity of recommending someone at age 55 draw down at a 10% rate?

[@ginamcneal4435]

Being able to retire depends on your lifestyle. If you want to spend spend spend in retirement or have a "high expense" lifestyle you'll need to have 4 million saved ....if you can live on very little, you don't need a huge nest egg. That is common math .

[@metagaminguniversemgu2240]

She wants her husband to work. If she's working and he isn't, its going to be a problem for her.

[@Tehui1974]

If the gender roles were reversed, I suspect Ramsey's advice would have been a lot different.

[@dylanbarrett599]

Dave is going to get a lot of people in financial trouble with an 8 to 10% withdrawal rate. He really needs to stop saying that, or he’s going to really hurt people.

[@todd2456]

It's because the wife knows that an 8-10% withdrawal rate is incredibly dangerous and has a VERY good chance of failure.

[@hugostiglitz8465]

The $8k monthly expenses is what throttled me. I dont make that in two months salary but I'm doing fine and still save money.

[@todd2456]

@@hugostiglitz8465 with higher incomes come higher expenses. We are at about $9K monthly. Health insurance alone is $1850/month and property taxes are $1127/month. Car and home insurance is $977/month. Utilities are $400. HOA is $110. It all adds up. And I'm not even including retirement funding of $15,000/month which is a separate line item.

[@thedude5040]

8k a month if they still have loans on something

[@bigshoe84]

Cost of living in that area of the country is high also

[@USMC6976]

@@thedude5040 nope. That was living expenses he stated. Things like property taxes, food, entertainment, etc. I would not be surprised if he needs, $8-10k (or more) a year just to pay the property tax on the home and it will go up every year. She probably likes driving a new car every year or two, so that adds another $4-6k a year for taxes and licenses. She probably likes eating out 4 or 5 times a week at nice restaurants. That's 3k a month. Getting her hair and nails done at least once a week, another $1k a month. Yeah, $8k a month is nothing when you have $150k or more to spend (after taxes) and that is what has been going on in that household. I don't think he included the money mom was shelling out to the kid(s). There's something else going on that he didn't mentioned. It's not about money.

[@kyungshim6483]

Dave again with his 10% withdrawal rate.

[@Richie2k6]

Nonsensical and unrealistic.

[@philipgerry5228]

We all need to use good judgement and be aware of your risk tolerance.

[@ColinLamberton-u6i]

@@philipgerry5228- 10% is reckless for any risk tolerance.

[@lkj0822g]

Yes, he really needs to stop with this nonsense. There are too many Ramsey KoolAid drinkers out there that believe every word he says.

[@privacyplease1556]

⁠@@philipgerry5228most of Dave’s listeners are dumb and rely on him for financial judgment

[@prestonflick5359]

Stop telling people to draw down 8-10% in retirement

[@cstuartdc]

Amen. He retires and now a 40% market correction means they now have 1.5 million. They draw out 8% and now they have 1.3 million. That’s not a disaster by any means but now he has 20+ years to make that last. And now at 55 yo he wants his job back during a recession.

[@coderider3022]

Yip, huge amount of money. 4% is the amount target.

[@tmanwheeler8270]

@@cstuartdcI understand that but the law of average means after that correction it might go up 25 or 30 percent and he’d make most of that back,right? I don’t know it’s very interesting.

[@cstuartdc]

@@tmanwheeler8270 yes but he continues to draw at 10% so the effective return is 15%. There’s software out there that run scenarios on this. This is a MATH problem not a psychology problem. The chance of failure (running out of money) becomes significantly higher at 10% drawdown. The wife here intuitively understands this but can’t articulate it the risk. There is chances of success too if the market does very well after you retire. If he absolutely wants him to draw 10% take 3 years of living expenses off the table and put it in cash …use that in downturns and don’t touch your stock mutual funds. On good years and sideways years sure draw 10% and have fun. Having 3 years of living expenses in cash fits the Dave Ramsey principle anyway…especially since if he’s hanging up his work shoes and will never work another day in life. Emergencies become more acute when eventually that happens to all of us.

[@cdm9011]

@@tmanwheeler8270yes if he wasn’t touching the nest egg it would eventually come back. But he is trying to live on it. You cannot take 8-10% of initial balance a year and expect your money to last. Think about it like this….$2 million and let’s say year one there is a 50% loss, which would be worst case scenario. Now he has $1 million and he takes out 8% of starting balance to live. That brings him down to $840,000! Now let’s say year 2 the market recovers 20% and he takes out another $160k, now he is at $848,000. Then imagine you have a -2% loss the next year. After your living expenses you are now down to $671,000. So as you can see we had a huge drawdown year 1. 50% is about as bad as you can get but it happens. After just 2 more years of normal market movements and you living your 2 million is only 671,000. Even if initial market drop was only 30% much more likely, you still would be nowhere near 2 million. The goose that lays the golden eggs is severely damaged and you will likely run out of money less than 10 years in to your retirement. A helpful thing to remember is how percentages work too, which seems to be over looked. If you loose 50% one year you need a 100% gain just to get back to square one!

[@yankeeman311]

Its insane that people think having $2.5 million is not enough to retire. Just represents the Joneses mindset right there. Just cut back expenses, downsize, and find a hobby...

[@normantheforeman9866]

She doesn’t want to be the sole income provider while he does nothing. Work a couple more years and retire together when she’s 55

[@almaguillot8597]

Bingo.

[@Observer100-cn7gv]

She can retire as well.

[@JohnBowl14690]

This lady is worried about nothing. They are fine. But that said, because they are pretty young, yeah...just work a couple more years and call it quits.

[@eddiemalvin]

​@@Observer100-cn7gv That's not what the caller said. His plan was to live off his wife's income until he reaches 59 1/2 and can make penalty-free withdraws from his retirement account. He retires, she works. Terrible plan.

[@michaelh2282]

Ditto. Dave knew this and was strongly hinting at this and the caller was so clueless. She resents the idea of her working her butt off for the next 4 years providing for the family while he goes off and does whatever he wants.

[@listerinr]

There's more to life than work and marketplace value. Civics and hobbies is enough to spend the rest of your life doing.

[@privacyplease1556]

Advising 10% per year withdrawal is CRIMINAL

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

As is retiring before the age of 80.

[@mousejackson2523]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508terrible advice.

[@Tehui1974]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 That doesn't make sense.

[@Thurgor_Supreme]

Dave's "math" revolves around the market returning 10% every single year and inflation not existing. Please go somewhere else for retirement advice

[@acruzro95]

True but inflation math is also a joke but to calculate it yearly and also to project. Is a joke to calculate it yearly because is understate it. And is a joke to calculate it for retirement because one doesn't buy a house every year and one doesn't drive 15K mile every year. Specially with Amazon orders and remote or hybrid work. Or specially once you retire the need for driving becomes less. Almost 50% Of inflation revolves around education, gas and rent prices. Those things either remain unchanged or go lower when you are about to retire.

[@analyticalchick3064]

and you need money for later life medical expenses, home aides and such.

[@donnag7288]

Mostly I listen to Dave Ramsey but his 10% return on mutual funds is not realistic. Tell me which mutual funds give you a 10 % return ? And mutual funds also drop when the market drop.

[@Thurgor_Supreme]

@@donnag7288 Yeah. Not to mention, actively managed mutual funds have a 95% failure rate at beating the market long-term and have ridiculously high management fees.

[@ritllc7489]

96k Yearly (8k Monthly) is a less than a 4% Yearly Withdrawal (3.84%) on 2.5 Million.

[@chuck1622]

Sure an easy and reliable 8-10% return per year 😂. Absolutely ridiculous 😂

[@SteveKoenig-xp6jz]

The S&P 500 has averaged over 11% a year since its inception. Just by being invested in the best companies of general market you can make 11% a year. 8% is a pretty conservative return in terms of stock market yearly returns.

[@lepoj]

Big difference between averaging 8-10% a year over the long term and making 8-10% every year. BIG difference.

[@NoRegertsHere]

@@SteveKoenig-xp6jzplease don’t do this. Sequence risk of returns will destroy you because you are constantly withdrawing 8% in year 1 and adjusting that for inflation upwards, but the market goes up and down as you are withdrawing a high constant amount. Measuring a constant withdrawal against average market returns needs to be tested to find the appropriate number. Will likely only last 10-12 years. 4% will last 30 years at least, and has a good chance of making 50 years

[@brianm1603]

@@SteveKoenig-xp6jz That's not really how it works.

[@keithredsox36]

@@SteveKoenig-xp6jzwhat happens if the market is done -10 percent ?

[@rob8582]

Your reminder that an 8% withdrawal rate is not only irresponsible but downright idiotic. Dave's already proven he has no clue on this and doesn't understand the Sequence of Returns risk. The most you should withdraw safely is around 5%, although most experts recommend around 4%

[@rob8582]

Pulling out 10% a year like Dave recommends here will leave you without money in 50% of situations

[@alrbredwall]

Yet somehow this guy is the subject matter expert with a multi million dollar empire and you are just some loser on the internet.

[@masonderwitsch5829]

Pull off, not pull out. He's clearly talking about the expected rate of return annually if invested in a good index or mutual fund. That will help Jason counteract his 4 or 5 percent withdrawal rate.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

The experts are wrong on two counts. 1. Nobody under the age of 80 should retire under any circumstances 2. Any withdrawal rate above 1% is asinine.

[@alrbredwall]

@amireallythatgrumpy6508 people successfully retire wlon direct violation of both of those points everyday. Comfortably.

[@gregorypeterson9]

Dude is tired of grinding in the corporate world period because it burns you tf out. Dave completely misses the point. They have enough wealth for him to get off the stressful hamster wheel and call his own shot. Dave and his wife both need to chill everything is not about more more dollars quality of life sometimes is way more valuable.

[@robloxvids2233]

Seriously, you ever notice how BS7 isn't "retire"? It's "live and give like no one else. The giving part implies still working. Dave's baby steps do not culminate in retirement and therefore nobody should seek retirement advice from him. He's never been retired, never liquidated 10% of his nest egg, and never looked at the SWR math.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

You miss the point that he hasn't earned the right to get out of the hamster wheel.

[@gregorypeterson9]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 Maybe when he is mental insane or deeply depressed or suicidal. Then he will have earned it. They have a million net worth and his wife alone make 180k if the roles were reversed it would be just fine.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Then they need to trade one hamster wheel for another. Everyone under the age of 80 needs to be in a hamster wheel. There is a reason "human" and "hamster" have the same 1st and 3rd letters. @@gregorypeterson9

[@gregorypeterson9]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 Maybe he can get off when he is clinical depressed or after his heart attack or when he has a stroke 🤔. No YOU missed the point.

[@aulzhoefer]

Dude spend time with your son. Get out of corporate and enjoy the flexibility of being your own boss.

[@nelsonw9483]

Again with the 8~10% withdrawal crap, Dave?

[@jeffenriquez9929]

If you’re basing it off of average return it’s realistic. The average for S&P is 10.13%. Finding a mutual fund higher than that isn’t hard.

[@nelsonw9483]

@@jeffenriquez9929 Reported your post

[@ritllc7489]

96k Yearly (8k Monthly) is a less than a 4% Yearly Withdrawal (3.84%) on 2.5 Million.

[@oboe23able]

@@ritllc7489and Dave said he could do $250k which is incorrect.

[@ryanl3812]

Love dave. Debt free because of him. But his thoughts on retirement will have you working forever

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Nobody under the age of 80 should retire under any circumstance

[@JohnBowl14690]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 - I hope you're joking.

[@chicken10ize]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 lol

[@eddiemalvin]

So the wife is the primary breadwinner and has most likely contributed the lion's share of their current retirement and other savings... and this guy wants to retire while his wife continues to support the family. Her resistance is valid.

[@mikebrown8580]

8% withdrawal is a terrible recommendation . The wife’s playing it safe.

[@beckyscott9380]

George just over there tryin' not to laugh. lol.

[@aeterna581]

And what's so funny about it?

[@LM-ch8rh]

I can't understand why Dave kept riding the caller. The caller already said a few times he'd have a side business. The guy clearly isn't going to sit on his butt all day. I totally get the wife, if you have a medical emergency it could wipe people out of their expenses.

[@JP-uy9kq]

Yeah, when this dude is dying he will wish he worked more.

[@USMC6976]

Many people retire without a hobby, so they sit around doing nothing. It isn't about having to work, it's about staying active that keeps you alive.

[@blackworldtraveler3711]

I have the same interests,activities,hobbies,home projects,etc. as when working. Since retired it’s just a continuation of what I was already doing but without a time clock. Even when I travel my girlfriend and I spend more time in other places. For 2023 it was one month in Brazil. A month on sailboat in BVIs, all summer in an Italian lake view farmhouse in Lugano Switzerland, spent three weeks in LA for a weekend gaming convention, and currently on Kauai from November through January. More like enjoying life with us. We didn’t retire to keep alive. That’s for people with health issues and forced to retire.

[@USMC6976]

@@blackworldtraveler3711 I don't understand the need for the last paragraph. I am not saying people retired to stay alive. I said keeping busy keeps you alive. That busy is either working or hobbies. In your case, you really have the best of life. Your hobby and job is the same. Thus, you never see work as a necessary evil. But most people do not have that. They retire from work because its stressful, dredgery, but never because they are happy at it. Then, with no hobby or other interest they just sit around at home doing nothing and that creates depression. And that, is what leads them into an early grave. Having other interests that keep you active keeps you living. When your work and hobby coincide, you never retire, but again, you're never really working at a job.

[@genxx2724]

@@blackworldtraveler3711 I want to do the same. Travel and spend time in places. I’m now financially independent and I think I can afford to do it. But I’m single.

[@stewbugz5213]

@@genxx2724 you will meet someone traveling! How exciting!

[@Observer100-cn7gv]

Still their choice. Not for you to analyze. Many are happily retired.

[@tombaker8445]

Dave's got awesome advice for people on getting out of debt and becoming wealthy. He has horrible advice on how much you can withdraw from your nest egg.

[@jrid1118]

George knows that his 4% rule is correct and you can see the tension in both their body language. George is just waiting and building his own following slowly but surely, eventually flap flap flap away he'll fly to his own show. still too early, that's why hes taking the slaps from Dave. George has made this calculation already, and knows it's still to early to tell Dave to GFYS

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

It is NOT correct. Nothing above 1% is correct.

[@thedude5040]

I think people misunderstood Dave. You can take 8% out if you have more aggressive investiments. If the market goes south you use liquid cash and adapt while the market adjusts. After recovery you can go back to 8%

[@jrid1118]

@@thedude5040 so if you're "aggressive" investment is down then you should you use the money you didn't invest at all?

[@thedude5040]

@jrid1118 what's the point to a 6-month emergency account in retirement?

[@jazzad]

I don't think you should ever let your employer treat you the way Dave did to George, even less so in front of a massive audience. I'm saying that without having a fraction of George's talent and recognition. I'm waiting for the straw that breaks the Kamel's back at this point.

[@emoney1231]

Dave, quit scaring people into not retiring. My grandpa retired at 55 and is still alive at 97.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

So she retired 25 years too early?

[@RL-ww5ev]

He could also be the exception to the rule. Those outliers do exist

[@dollargeek4016]

How much money he had at 55 when he retired?

[@emoney1231]

@@RL-ww5ev I think it's much more likely to be correlation and not causation. Interacting with people, moving around, using your brain, and having purpose are all things you MIGHT lose if you stop working. But I bet if you are able to keep up those aspects in retirement, there is no difference or possibly even a benefit to life expectancy by retiring early.

[@emoney1231]

@@dollargeek4016 Enough.

[@sprPee]

I’m retiring at 40. Wtf is market value? Fuck the market

[@chingllac]

Dear Caller , just retire don’t think about your value in the marketplace bs. Enjoy life but keep ur budget under control. I am going to retire at age 41 together with my husband and I’m not looking forward to be in the marketplace that brought me so much stress, anxiety and hatred to people. I can do rice and beans just not to go to work.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

No sane person retires before the age of 80.

[@gregorypeterson9]

Exactly 💯

[@robloxvids2233]

Dave would literally rather this guy spend more time with bosses or clients than his own family. That tells us all we need to know about what Dave values. I'm surprised he didn't name his kids Dollar and Bill.

[@imtheowloo]

Y'all are just built different. Finance people are usually competitive mofos that can't live with themselves unless they have numerical proof that they are more "valuable" than others in some capacity (like the marketplace). That's why they struggle with self-esteem/masculinity/depression etc. if their ability to make money comes into question. If you can "admit defeat/surrender" in the corporate rat race at 40 and enjoy your life without regretting the money you could've made if you had worked for longer, don't let these stupid finance mofos tell you what you do to self-actualize.

[@Westcoastguy]

Just curious, what is your nest egg to retire at 41? That seems real young.

[@matt7684]

Dave worships the "marketplace".

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Probably because it's the only thing that actually exists.

[@joefunk76]

8-10% per year is INSANE. You will go broke in 15-20 years doing that. 😂

[@dougholdem2898]

I'm a little surprised Dave would advise a 55 year old caller that they can withdraw 8-10% a year and not run out of money. With a life expectancy of approximately 30 years, if he goes through a period like we did from June 1, 2000 when the S&P was at 1517 and December 1, 2008 when the S&P was at 735, and all the while withdrawing 8-10% a year, your sorry butt will be broke and looking for a job!

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

You should not retire until the age of 80.

[@thedude5040]

​@@amireallythatgrumpy6508STFU with your garbage

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

The truth is not garbage. I know you Americans fear the truth.@@thedude5040

[@nailatiylluf]

@@dougholdem2898he publicly scolded George for saying it should be 4% because Dave has set it in stone that 8-10% is fine and he’s too stubborn to admit he’s wrong. It’s scary so many people may listen and find themselves broke after years of hard work.

[@davidandrews5262]

Ramsay thinks someone is smart cause thwy make 160k per year? Lol if only

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

You have it backwards. Often people make 160K per year BECAUSE they're smart, not the other way around.

[@summerforever6736]

Exactly means shit

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Learn English. @@summerforever6736

[@kara2162]

"Babysitting" your own child in the summer is not an option, but stay at home mom's are the best thing ever? Dave is projecting on his own retirement and makes no sense.

[@jimmymcgill6778]

Dave does not understand work life balance. Work life balance does not mean to not work all the time. If he does not want to work for a summer, and want to spend it with his son. Then so what. So what if he does not work another day in his life. Spend time with yor kids and grand kids, is not baby sitting. It does not matter what his net worth is. What matters is how much liquid cash they have. For all we know, the house can be 1.5 million.

[@Chiefmane1]

Spend it with his son doing what exactly? The son is a teenager he will be outside with his friends majority of the summer.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

He understands that in the real world, work/life balance does not exist. Something you need to learn.

[@jimmymcgill6778]

@@Chiefmane1 You do not know how old he is. Even teens do things with their dads.

[@jimmymcgill6778]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 You have to make it exist yourself. It does exist. These boomer bosses do not care about it.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

If you don't choose all work, you are choosing all life. Which quickly becomes no life. A balance is a theoretical ideal but a practical impossibility. @@jimmymcgill6778

[@HelloWorld-hb7yt]

If you invested $100 in the S&P 500 at the beginning of 2000, you would have about $488.05 at the end of 2023, assuming you reinvested all dividends. This is a return on investment of 388.05%, or 6.93% per year.

[@ClaxtonBay123]

That 8 to 10% withdrawal is the reason Ramit made that video 😂

[@SPY_0-DTE]

Everyone made a video about Dave's 8%. It was great

[@genxx2724]

@@SPY_0-DTE Including the caller. He’s a very well-informed, well-intentioned, courteous young man.

[@hopefilledfinancial]

@@genxx2724 Thank you! You are very kind. I am personally surprised that this call from 12/11 made it onto the highlights channel - given how many 8% videos and articles were written.

[@Slurm_Daddy92]

How are you 100% debt free but still spend $8,000 a month?!

[@JohnBowl14690]

She makes $150K, plus he probably makes good money as well. If your family is pulling in $250K per year, that's about $14K per month after taxes. That's not hard to do. Keep in mind they probably bought their house long ago and paid it off.

[@voidfroze]

$8k/mo is an extremely reasonable number considering they make enough money to not stress about things like food delivery, frequent travel, expensive hobbies, buying all high quality goods/services, and being generous to family/friends/charities. Sure, they could probably cut back, but isn’t the point of having 2.5M so that you won’t HAVE to cut back?

[@Venezuela305]

I can't help but think the dynamic between George and Dave changed. George is being extra safe in what he says, and Dave keeps looking at George as if he is teaching him all over again. Maybe it is just me, but I feel that 4% vs 8% argument drew a line between their ideologies. Now thay just agree to disagree and move on.

[@jeffkline9191]

You mean George agrees to keep his job by never mentioning what’s commonly accepted as basic finance advice in the 4percent rule.

[@TonyCox1351]

8% is hardly an ideology, I’ve never heard anyone but Dave quote it lol, but I get what you’re saying

[@robloxvids2233]

I quit a job because my boss forgot my birthday (he was also a douche who constantly talked politics and religion). I can only imagine what I would have done had he called me an IDIOT in front of millions of people.

[@fauxbro1983]

Don't forget to factor in costs associated with health care in your mid 50s. for that I can see her point. but if I were him I would find part time employment in your mid 50s and call it good. there's 24 hours a day, can't fish that much

[@damondiehl5637]

Blasphemy! And you forgot hunting and golf.

[@xsgtxbigboy1655]

Damn let the man retire telling him it’s not a good idea to live ur life instead of work it away? What’s wrong with them

[@3ddiEdotcom]

She's using the math fear as a smokescreen. She doesn't want him sitting around the house all day. Especially if she's making the majority of the family's income. I can understand her being that way. I would, too. And I'm a guy.

[@TheRealEdStoner]

They both have paid their dues. Either one should be able to retire now.

[@NoRegertsHere]

Oh Jesus. The 8% withdrawal rate again. Chaarmon Dave. Terrible advice. This caller, $100k a year, $2.5m. That’s 4% He can switch to a job that pays $100k a year now if he’s earning more than that

[@HelosWorldRailroadReseller]

I’m leaving the workplace at 53. I’m tried of punching a time clock. I’m single no kids no mortgage or any other debt. Excellent 401k and IRA with money in the bank. I’m not quit working but I’m working when I want to.

[@mr.courtney5703]

Dave is adding a lot of tension to this call. Argumentative tone and cutting off the caller. I love Dave but Calm down.

[@flea4061]

Meh, 2.5 million after taxes is $1,750,000. Its a long time until 80. You're just one stock market drop or medical bill away from broke. At 55, I'd want 5 million.

[@jhford1234]

It's amazing how Dave knows what the wife is thinking better than her husband...

[@corey407woc]

Well Dave is a certified simp lol

[@30yearsoldiam1]

Dave Is speculating. The guy could go be a philanthropist.....not everyone needs marketplace self worth.

[@TheFrankybody]

In this case Dave is 100% right, the biggest turn off for a woman is a man who stops working/hustle even if he can pay the bills.

[@greggpurviance7252]

​@@TheFrankybodynot really. Only if the guy is sitting around eating bon Bons & watching soap opras off her money (or playing video games)

[@kbanghart]

​@@corey407wocsimp... That's a favorite word of guys who are mad at women cuz women won't let the guys control them, right?

[@marcuswashington461]

I retired at 50...3years in no market place value gym or walk 5-6 days a week watch all my sports vacation when my wife is off..haven't regretted it one day!!! Dave's friends who are having trouble need to reevaluate their lives..too each his own..do I get bored sometimes sure but never had one wish to go back to work!!! Retire and enjoy your life dude nobody is promised tomorrow!!!!!

[@jasonrabe1664]

You're a quitter and a part of the problem.

[@cmiovino]

I rarely disagree with Dave - on these ones, I always do. Yes, it's all about risk tolerance. The historically there should be a ~7-10% return over the long turn, however Dave oversimplifies this and just says you can withdraw up to 10% in perpetuity. All it takes is a few down years in a row like any of the "great recession" type things of a few years with really negative returns paired with pulling out 10% each year to really hammer on that nest egg. ~5 years later you wake up and half your retirement is already gone. Yes, there can be some big gains after that, but because you withdrew during the down times for living expenses, you miss out on the gains somewhat. Factoring in a 10% withdrawal rate is super risky.

[@brianpitsilides5337]

Saw the title and clicked so I can see if Dave was going to throw George under the bus again because Dave doesn’t seem to understand how sequence of returns works when he references his 10% rule.

[@Ubetter]

Dave needs to retire. He looks sick.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Nobody under the age of 80 has the right to retire. @@Ubetter

[@chrissmith-yg5xn]

@@Ubettersick? Are u stupid ?

[@lot2196]

​@@amireallythatgrumpy6508are you really that grumpy?

[@summerforever6736]

An old fool

[@brianb5594]

Invest that in good dividend paying stocks and REIT’s and you could easily have $180K a year and never touch the principal.

[@kiksocks12]

Did Dave just say “babysitting your kid” during the summer?? What…😮

[@RahimBah1]

"Understanding your financial situation is key. Have you considered consulting with a financial advisor to assess your retirement plan and explore potential options?"

[@JosiahK555]

Dave and his stupid 8-10 withdrawal, NO dave, NO. 4% rule, please. they can take 100K a year and be fine. you can take more out once or twice for an emergency. stupid to do it every year.

[@ronmexico5908]

He sounds like he needs out of his job. Have a little grace and allow your wealthy husband to retire. If she likes working then she should work not him

[@KS-cl8br]

it sound like most of the 2.5 million is hers not his

[@mirabella2154]

God, let the poor man retire, Dave. And the wife needs to sit down as well. He is financially fine and deserves to do whatever he wants to do with the rest of his life.

[@Thurgor_Supreme]

I guess you didn't read between the lines. The wife is the breadwinner and the breadwinner gets to call the shots on retirement. She probably wants to retire comfortably and she aint about to follow Dave's dumb overdraw advice or some financial planner that wants her to scrape along on the bare minimum cost of living

[@jimmymcgill6778]

I know. Not everyone wants to work 100 hours a week.

[@Primitive_Code]

@@Thurgor_Supreme We don't know if the wife was the one building the $2.5m net worth, it's possible he built most of it and wants to lay back and enjoy until 59.5 years to cash out. If that's the case, his ideas pull a lot of weight. If it's your assumption though, she calls all the shots. Why would a woman like that though settle for a man like that?

[@Thurgor_Supreme]

@@Primitive_Code Happens all the time in modern society. Women climb up the corporate office ladder while men grind away on the blue collar hourly jobs

[@acruzro95]

​@@Thurgor_Supremethey should call the shots together no matter who the bread winner is.

[@lindawilson4625]

I don't know that I would like this as his wife. Dave nailed it. The wife is not on board. I don't see this going well. His work/life balance...great for him, but not for her.

[@jameskelson1891]

More Ramsey arrogance instead of facts. There are tons of studies supporting the 4% safe withdrawal rate. Those same studies would put the 8% withdrawal success at less than 12% for a 40 year retirement.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

And they're all wrong. Nobody should withdraw more than 1% under any circumstances.

[@willelliott5052]

I don't think that we are hearing the whole truth. If his wife is the breadwinner and will continue to work, then I doubt that she respects his desire to take another step down as a weak provider. He had better man up, or she might find someone who will. Their wealth (probably thanks mostly to her) is beside the point.

[@RLH1510]

Can't you draw money out of your 401k without penalty under Rule 55?

[@htran18]

Yeah he should totally wait until he’s 55 to retire.

[@BrianW211]

Oh, boy, Dave telling people they can withdraw 8% to 10% of their nest egg per year makes me cringe. You can find analysis on his 4 mutual fund portfolio recommendation (Growth/Growth-and-Income/Aggressive-Growth/International) and there's no way he's had the 11%-12% that he claims over a 10-, 20-, or 30-year period. He may have made around 9% on average, but the risk is _extreme_ .

[@masonderwitsch5829]

Pull off, not pull out. He's clearly talking about the expected rate of return annually if invested in a good index or mutual fund. That will help Jason counteract his 4 or 5 percent withdrawal rate.

[@BrianW211]

@@masonderwitsch5829 You haven't watched very many of Dave's videos, have you? He very clearly tells people they can _withdraw_ 8%, and he sometimes says 10%.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

4% is stupid. So is any other withdrawal rate above 1%.

[@bygone8676]

The trick is start with 500M like Dave, no worries

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

He will probably start retirement with 2B.@@bygone8676

[@yaya14every81]

I feel sad for George. He kept quiet the entire time Dave said the caller could withdraw 8 to 10%. I wonder how long George will stay and work for Ramsey?

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Probably another 30 years.

[@mikeyiorio1880]

You can tell George’s body language was uneasy when Dave was saying pull 8-10%

[@joefunk76]

Knowing better than those you work for doesn’t pay the bills, unfortunately.

[@blackworldtraveler3711]

I don’t feel anything at all. Just entertainment.

[@Iphone3gsFTW]

So true. If he says anything he’ll be fired

[@hopefilledfinancial]

I am pretty surprised the team made this a highlight call after everything went down in November only a month before. Bless all of you who tried to change Dave's mind on the 8% SWR topic. I don't think there is anything else to try.

[@miketheyunggod2534]

I retired 10 years ago at 50 with $200K and still going. 😊.

[@XxCaptNKnucklesxX]

Can you elaborate?

[@lkj0822g]

When this caller said that he had talked to a financial advisor, that advisor was most likely modeling using the 4% rule. Here is the "maff" with actual data: Assumption #1: $2.5 million, S&P 500 ROI, $100k per year withdrawal (which is a 4% withdrawal rate on the original balance), beginning 1/1/2000. At 12/31/22, you would still have $2.3 million in your account. Assumption #2: $2.5 million, S&P 500 ROI, $130k per year withdrawal, beginning 1/1/2000. AT 12/31/22, you would have $66k in your account. Basically, you will run out of money in 2023. Assumption #3: $2.5 million, S&P 500 ROI, using Dave's $200k per year withdrawal, beginning 1/1/2000. You run out of money in 2010. Hey Dave, have you ever heard of the expression "First, do no harm."? Because that is exactly what you are doing here.

[@crusherven]

But the financial advisor said they'd be fine, too. I don't like how rough Dave was on this guy, but you're misguided in your criticism. Dave wants him to keep making money--he's not going to go broke if he follows that advice.

[@Swyl_]

Actually, withdrawing 100k every year since 2000 he would end 2023 with 3.8M$.

[@lkj0822g]

@@crusherven If he continues to make money, then he is not withdrawing $100k per year out of their retirement accounts. Dave says he could retire now and withdraw 10%, or $200k per year in perpetuity. So no, I am not misguided when I point out that following Dave's investment advice here would put this couple in significant financial risk.

[@crusherven]

@@lkj0822g his advice to this guy was to keep contributing financially. But sure, keep beating that drum

[@janetchang1527]

Seriously …. Best stick with 2%-4% withdrawal rate … definitely no more than 4% …. 10% withdrawal rate is super risky!

[@jasonleatherwood2172]

I dont know a single person of the hindreds i know that has made 10% historically i average around 5 over the past 16 years since i started investing at 21

[@thedude5040]

My brokerage account has averaged 22%. Granted I just started 5 years ago.

[@genxx2724]

@@thedude5040 Your short period encompassed a very strange time. You can look up a table of historical returns. There are also historical calculators where you can plug in dollar amounts and time periods and see what the growth would have been.

[@coolaunt516]

What about health insurance for him? Can she provide it until Medicare starts?

[@Bettadenyou1]

This was the video we were all waiting for!! I was hoping daves cohost was going to talk about the more realistic 4% safe withdrawal rate like he did in the past! Come in George! You are the one with the common sense here!

[@gregorypeterson9]

He will never question Dave's outdated retirement strategies.

[@mikebrown8580]

George is on dave’s gravy train , he won’t bite the hand that feeds him

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Retiring is in and of itself an outdated strategy. @@gregorypeterson9

[@darinherrick9224]

(whistles) $8,000 a month! For two people! Damn!

[@Mr.Boring_Man]

Dave Ramsey can't believe he's not correct because [insert anecdote]. His wife literally "feels" it's not enough. That's it. Explain the numbers and move accordingly. My wife is the same. We should be able to retire in our 50s but it's gonna be a hell of a sell for her to stop working. Also, it's been her identity for decades. I get it.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Nobody under the age of 80 should retire under any circumstances.

[@Abelram1153]

Dude, just retire and enjoy doing whatever the stink you want to do!

[@mrskitty7929]

She doesn’t want him to retire until she does

[@bmmk12]

See Dave didn't learn!!

[@imveryhungry112]

Once I stop working im only going to withdraw 5 percent a year.

[@adamseidel9780]

What garbage advice from Dave. Absurd. We don’t live to work.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

What utter nonsense. If we're not working, we're dying.

[@steelcastle5616]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 No wonder you're so grumpy...

[@MikeNapoli1989]

I’m 25. I started investing in an S&P 500 through my job. It’s a 457 B plan, I also have a pension. I wish people my age would be more financially responsible with their decisions and that is a prime reason I don’t have anything in common nor get along with a lot of people my age.

[@acruzro95]

We are a few . Out of every 10 people there is 1 like us

[@genxx2724]

Same, and I’m 58. It’s not about age. It’s a mindset.

[@W.Holden.6]

Completely agree. I’m 21 with a couple thousand in 401k through my job. Most kids our age don’t even know what investing is. If they do, they say “I want to have fun with my money.” Like you said, I have nothing in common with them

[@genxx2724]

@@W.Holden.6 Age 21 is not a kid.

[@robertsquared2916]

Take it from this 49 yr old, do whatever you can to max that puppy out every year. I know it’s hard, but when I was your age I was going to Vegas twice a year and Miami and I wish had done more investigating and less partying. My net worth is slightly over 1.7 million but if I was focused at your age it be 4 million now.

[@yoshit9819]

I only have 125k in investments. My home is paid off. My land is paid off. Zero debt. My pension is 117k a year. Hope that's good.

[@hvaball150]

I feel like Dave keeps trying to tell George its 8% as a mentality.... But George is stuck on the 4% common rule, so you dont run out. While you may live to 75+, you may not need "todays 8k per month" type lifestyle at that age... SS may be enough, if it comes to that. He wont have access to much of the $2.5M till 60. And $2.5M could easily generate $100k per year. One should be able to live off $100k no bills. Unless you want to travel extensively He should retire at 55.

[@imveryhungry112]

2.5 million will safely generate around 95,000 a year for 30 years. If you can live off that good. If not you need to keep working. Its that simple.

[@imveryhungry112]

@@machinesnmetal depends on how the stock market goes. No way to know that. thats the very essence of this call. The wife is afraid theyll run out of money. But 95000 is generated from around 4 percent of 2.5mil. Any more than that and theyll surely run out of money.

[@Observer100-cn7gv]

Leave the man alone and let him retire. Life is meant to be enjoyed. Not to spend your days going to a job that you do not even want to go to. He is 55. He has spent more than enough time in the workplace. He could pass tomorrow. Let the man live freely and pursue what he wants. Right now, he does not want to work. Just congratulate him for his accomplishments. He paid his dues. No need to say more. The wife needs to do the same.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Life is only meant to be enjoyed by those that earn that right. These idiots didn't and they need to pay the price.

[@lockedloaded4942]

I do like Dave Ramsey and for the most part he gives out great advice on getting out of debt and building wealth, but the main issue I have with his advice is recommending an 8-10% withdrawal rate in retirement where nearly every other financial expert recommends 4%.

[@stuartwilkison8754]

100000 to live on??? I live on 16000 a year...but I don't pay for hair and nail expenses

[@ellievranesevic]

Something tells me that Dave hit the nail on the head when he was suspecting that it wasn’t about the money at all from the wife’s point of view.

[@sportagus3]

Caller: I want to spend time with my kids Dave: You're too valuable in the marketplace go do something. LOL

[@Ck-pj3vu]

He said she makes most of the money so she doesn’t want him at home spending her hard earned money. He also said I have a kid not we have a kid so he will be using her money to take care of another woman kid. She wifed her husband. I hope she has a prenup.