How to MAXIMIZE yield! What’s the Best Spawn to Sub Ratio? How Thick Should Your Substrate Be?

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How thick should your substrate be? What’s the ideal spawn to sub ratio? What are the benefits of having a thicker or thinner substrate, or a higher/lower spawn:sub ratio? These are the topics I will be covering today in this re-edited video from my old channel (originally posted in August 2022).
I hope you all have a great day or night!
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Sage
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[@Mycophilia]

What ratio do you like to use, and why? Let me know! 1) Patreon Replacement (memberships for videos and monthly genetics): tinyurl.com/mycosage 2) Mentorship and Genetics, I don't bite!: [e-mail] 3) Discount codes in description 🍄💜 Sage

[@BluGuyMyco]

Depending on the genetics I do 1:2/1:3

[@mehdidehghani2259]

Hi man. You are awesome. Thank you I'll share the info's I learn from you with others. Thank u I'll keep doing the work. I just could not get the last thing you said would be grateful If u clear me. What u mean by "don't go over one to one or one to four for coir lovers" tank U❤❤

[@ZCRAIZED1]

Did you shut down the Patreon? Using your links from other videos I can't find it other than it saying page deleted.

[@Mycophilia]

@@mehdidehghani2259 spawn to sub ratio

[@Mycophilia]

@@ZCRAIZED1 Unfortunately my Patreon got taken down. I am in the process of making a new website atm

[@robertmcdowell9649]

Starts out with a view of the largest monotub in the universe

[@Mycophilia]

🤣

[@dgu8240]

hey man coco coir certainly does provide nutrition to the mushrooms but the most important part (and some others) are missing. Nitrogen. that's what the spawn is for. Grain contains a lot of proteins/amino acids which supply the nitrogen. a very important building block for its own proteins, chitin and structure. But a lot of the energy comes from the coco coir (cellulose and lignin). That why you can get flushes for month, as it continues to break down the coco coir and uses the remaining nitrogen (and other stuff) from the grain it already stored.

[@Mycophilia]

Yes you are correct, when I speak of nutrition in the substrate I mainly mean nitrogen (and other elements) and carbs vs cellulose, lignin and minerals. Basically, if a substrate can contaminate on its own or provide the mushrooms fully with what they need to grow on its own, I refer to it as a nutritious substrate. Thank you for your comment! Sage

[@ZCRAIZED1]

I have been under the impression that coconut coir has no nutritional value. Is that incorrect? I have left totes mostly full of coconut and water when it wasn't needed and it never molds, even after months of sitting with the lid on or off. If it won't mild that makes me think it doesn't have nutritional value. Please clarify and correct what I'm thinking.

[@SuiGenerisMan]

​​​​​​@@ZCRAIZED1I've been growing for 2 years, I don't know shit and I'm not careful. I only use coir, water & uncle bens. Then Mix that shit together like a runny paste. At Thanksgiving I bought 6 of those aluminum Turkey trays with the Dome plastic tops. Cheap ass 1 time use things . Cut a big rectangle from a black trash bag and use it for a liner. NEVER get side pins or bottoms. Mist everything with 70% alcohol, add my paste and cover. No layers, no meters, No holes, I just leave them in our huge closet next to the small bay window, where they get indirect sun a few hours. each day. My Tidal wave grows fast and soon as the entire surface is solid white, I open the lid and move it at an angle so 10% of the surface is getting direct air. I Always get 2 flushes, every single time. It's SO damn easy and SO simple. He's right, all that dumb shit with the Holes makes no difference. Vermiculite, coffee, perlite, humidifiers, fans, humidity meters - all completely unnecessary.

[@jerseyjoe8637]

​@@SuiGenerisMan Straight to the point, thank you. You mentioned you're not careful, yeah I noticed that when I'm too careful everything gets phucked up lol.

[@razorramon3256]

Starting my first big grow soon your advice is unmatched

[@Mycophilia]

Thank you Razor, I appreciate that I can help 😊

[@beauregardb6108]

Perfectly timed!! I'm starting my second run, and this question has been troubling me.

[@reidnorton6794]

Thanks! I appreciate your videos and answering a couple questions for me recently.

[@Mycophilia]

Thank you Reid! 🍄 💜

[@RawTubeTV]

Thanks Sage!!! 1:2 and 1:3 seems to be working the best for me.

[@Mycophilia]

That’s the good stuff right there!

[@danielencarnacion459]

Is this v:v or w:w

[@RawTubeTV]

@danielencarnacion459 V:V. For example 1qt spawn to 2qts substrate

[@jesseb1298]

Yay! I love all the helpful information you have for us! 🍄❤️

[@kenoz765]

Wow man this came just in time

[@sativaburns6705]

Beautiful view. Thanks for the info. Something I've been working on.

[@enigma1247]

Yo yo checking in here with the sage!

[@latinpapie]

1:3 ratio! I’ve been over doing it lmao I appreciate the advice bro!

[@Mycophilia]

Glad I could help :)

[@latinpapie]

@@Mycophilia Brody! Where do you recommend getting TT BVI liquid culture from?

[@aidenlombardi7811]

@@latinpapie i think sporeswap has it

[@evangann6146]

Always love your videos Sage. I'm taking notes for my first shoebox in a couple weeks, hope all goes well. 🍄❤️

[@Mycophilia]

You got this! 🍀

[@Fairy.Tail.Scalez]

Hope you had a great trip!

[@Mycophilia]

Thanks! Still in India but preparing to come back.

[@WhiteBeardHashtag1205]

Ive tested 1:1 - 1:5 with CV sub. My best results (depending on cultigen) were 1:2.5 - 1:3. Overall, regardless of cultigen, I found 1:3 generally performs best, in my environment at least. As far as thickness of fruiting block, 2.5" - 3" fruits best in my opinion. Any thinner than 2.5" seems to not produce as much size/quantity, and anything over 3" seems to just be a waste of materials as they do not produce more/larger fruits. I tried a 5" fruiting block, and it did fine. However, that couldve been 2 - 2.5" fruiting blocks, with twice the surface area, and producing twice the fruits. In my opinion, it was just a waste of resources.

[@Mycophilia]

@@WhiteBeardHashtag1205 pretty much what I do as well 👍

[@robertpowser5624]

looked like Shenandoah valley or spruce pine. Beautiful!

[@miguelofre]

best mushroo channel ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! love your content so ush info in detail.. love you

[@Mycophilia]

Thank you 😊

[@Roggbon]

Hey sage does the size of the individual grains impact the spawn to sub ratio for example using millet vs popcorn?

[@Mycophilia]

Yes, I would be more comfortable going with a higher sub ratio with a smaller grain like millet than popcorn. There is simply much more mycelium and nutrition in a qt of millet vs popcorn. Good question!

[@greatestytcommentator]

Would the mycellial density be higher too with smaller grain?

[@spontaneousbootay]

​​​@@greatestytcommentatorno there is just more nutrition so it can last for more flushes and give larger yields. Its going to colonize the same either way.

[@russellm7530]

​So then with brown rice I shouldn't need too much substrate probably, maybe 1:1? That's what Im using and would like to use the least amount of sub that I need. Anyways, great video thanks.

[@Jcpineda26]

@@russellm7530how did it go with the 1:1 ratio?

[@rkaith]

Great video man

[@Mycophilia]

Thanks man

[@ShaggyKing]

The edits and cuts make the video a little harder to follow.

[@SL-yy1gw]

Yuup lol

[@ZCRAIZED1]

For me the edits made it much better.

[@233tjc]

I appreciate Sage’s efforts : )

[@MissBlackMetal]

I presume the voiceover edits for the "names" of mushrooms is done to get around any censorship that would come from using the proper names. He's mentioned that in other videos. I agree, it does make it hard for me to follow, as it's distracting to my already-easily-distracted brain.

[@ShaggyKing]

@@MissBlackMetal yea that’s why he does it. It makes sense, but I wish there were a better easier to follow way. I’m not hating on him. I’ve been a supporter for a while now. I’m just saying it takes away from the flow of the video and makes the information a little harder to process FOR ME

[@jaydel3523]

Thanks for the vid🍄❤️

[@ASJ..]

Hope your trip was great!!! Now back to teaching us students😂

[@Mycophilia]

Still not coming back for a few days, this was a vid I scheduled before I left! Class will soon be back in session 😊

[@fefo2109]

Sup Sage!! nice to see you!

[@Mycophilia]

Hey Fefe 😊

[@eve_squared]

I went from spore to agar about 3 weeks ago and it took 6 days until I had to transfer to grain where it again took only about 6-7 days to fully colonize and i've put it to coir and it's around 50% colonized less than a week later. was happy with the speed and did a 1:4 on the substrate.

[@CannibalOX99]

What's 1:4. I bag of grain ?

[@eve_squared]

@@CannibalOX99 should mean 4 parts substrate 1 part grain if I remember, though I would probably do 1:3 instead, and the variety of mushrooms I grew happen to grow extremely fast so do keep in mind it may take more like 2 months.

[@Jcpineda26]

What kind of grain did you use that time?

[@eve_squared]

@@Jcpineda26 just long grain brown rice

[@tonystewart7624]

Thank you brother!

[@Mycophilia]

Cheers Tony!

[@Tethysmeer]

Coincidence! I have too big shoeboxes and too small b+ jars because of small PC. First box, only coir, thin maybe 1 inch 1:3 ratio. Going strong I see dozens of pins. Second box I tried 1:8, mycelium still growing good but I fear that other spores/bacts will be faster. I'll report back in a few days.

[@PlasmaOne]

Hows it going?

[@Tethysmeer]

1:8 got mold. It simply takes too long for the mycelium to grow through. Perhaps if you sterilise the bulk and mix in front of a flowhood you could get away with it. 1:3 went well but small fruits because of a too big shoebox, too thin layer. But still lots of nice mush 😊

[@PlasmaOne]

Seems like anywhere from 1:1 to 1:3 is fine maybe even 1:4 if you are confident in how clean your setup is.

[@spontaneousbootay]

Another great video

[@daplaon916]

I Was hoping you had video examples of you doing this

[@mattborski]

Yes, videos of him actually doing this would make this podcast KZbin worthy.

[@adenlols2999]

Safe travels sage 🌞enjoy

[@Mycophilia]

Thanks Aden :)

[@AzimuthAviation]

3:1 plain coir hydrated at 3.4x dry weight.

[@LSDaveDutchDelights]

Hey Sage A wise man once said; Climbe that mountain Sage,keep climbing till you are high enough. Look around, take a deep breath of thin air and the world as at your feet . Then come back down slowly , and memories wiil last for ever.

[@Mycophilia]

Thanks Dave 💜

[@wolfsterdescalo7051]

Is 10 weeks normal for colonization? I used 2 10cc syringes. If after the bags are colonizing should you empty the bags into the tub?

[@user-hh5vp7ov3b]

No bro it's no normal the ideal time is 2-3 weeks i think you use a lot Liquid culture 10cc is too much try start again

[@wolfsterdescalo7051]

thank you@@user-hh5vp7ov3b

[@psilocyborg4775]

You are the first person that I've come across that uses the x5 for the amount of water to coir ratio. A Lot of people say to use way more water than that and when I first started it was confusing. Still to this day I don't know why people recommend so much water.🤔

[@TeaTellyWMaria]

It helps to think of the substrate not as food for the mycelium, but essentially as a water reservoir and to provide a support structure for the mycelium, as Mycophilia mentions.

[@MycoTooMushed]

Hey there I hope all is going well on your trip. I had a question regarding my first shoebox grow with GT in Coco coir I feel like I squeezed out too much water when checking field capacity I have a couple clusters really boomin well a bunch of other smaller pens are on their way up. It just seems like the substrate is too dry. How can I go about watering them during my first flush? I’d appreciate your help.

[@gladd651]

Think I have the same issue as you do by squeezing out too much water out of my substrate. Got a few that came up but mostly pins that aborted after those that grew. I submerged mine by filling up the top tube to weigh the substrate down for about 5 hours. I've waited 3 days now and haven't seen any results yet. Guess time will tell.

[@Mycophilia]

If when you squeezed your substrate as hard as you could, only a drop or two of water came out, it’s perfect.

[@TotallyNotillegal]

If you think it's too little water, it's perfect. Make sure your surface conditions are good(misting for tiny water droplets). If you started froma. Spore syringe, you're always going to be rolling the dice. You've got to clone the genetics you like out of your tubs. So the clusters that are booming you can clone, fruit them, get spores, fruit them, clone again etc

[@kriswhitehead520]

So if I'm calculating correctly, a 3lb spawn bag needs roughly: 650g of dry coir and 3.5L water to get a 1:3 grain to wet substrate ratio by weight?

[@xxg0t3mxx]

Was using 1:5 not the best but just made my own rice tonight and have a lc of yeti in the mail gonna attempt 1:2 or 1:3 I think did use 10 26qt tubs and now gonna drop to 2 56qt tubs @ 1:2/1:3 hoping huge flush in the past I always got huge mushy but smaller flushes

[@westvane]

So if those shoe boxes are only 5" tall or so on the interior, and you have 3" of spawn/sub, how often do you run into the fruit hitting the lid? My last grow from a bag was producing fruits in the 3-5" size. Obviously, this depends on genetics. I understand you can invert another shoebox on top, but is there a downside to simply going to a bigger, hence deeper tub (say 12-18qt)? Or do you then need to mod it for FAE? Just seems like I'm going to have to buy 2x the shoeboxes if my fruit keep producing at that size. I know they will push up the lid, but that means more babysitting and humidity control on my part.

[@Mycophilia]

Check out my video “Should you Dubtub”, all the answers are thete

[@Mycophilia]

There

[@westvane]

@@Mycophilia Copy, like you said around 4:35 "Don't overthing it, they grow in poo." I got the newbie jitters and want everything perfect.

[@Shunya0101]

Would one benefit from casing an all-in-one bag when in fruiting conditions?

[@Mycophilia]

Depends on one’s environment and propensity for maintaining good conditions

[@aaroncapps1639]

I’ve always used 1-1 or 1-2 even at 1-1 2.5lbs of grain and 2.5lbs of sub is still a great amount of water retention.

[@Mycophilia]

Yes, but relative to the amount of nutrition you have, you can be getting bigger flushes by giving the mushrooms more water to produce more.

[@allokidar._.]

You are awesome

[@Mycophilia]

💜 thanks

[@CyberToxicAntidote]

Wait wait 1:2 dry substrate or hydrated?

[@Mycophilia]

Hydrated

[@RigorMortisRabbit]

is it the case that multispore is always going to cause lower yield? I heard multispores have competing genetics that is cause, and isolating from a single fruit will massively improve the likelyhood of full canapy. This is the case or am i missing something?

[@TeaTellyWMaria]

If you want canopies, then cloning is a good approach. That being said, multispore doesn't necessarily mean less yield. It's variable, according to genetics and environment.

[@justinbyers3848]

What is core loving mean?

[@TheBernardo2000]

Coco coir

[@Fairy.Tail.Scalez]

What's up, Sage? How you doing bro?

[@Mycophilia]

Good bud, thanks!

[@zmb5501]

Is it ok to buy premade substrate? Just trying to simplify if i can.

[@Mycophilia]

Believe it or not that’s actually complicating things. Can’t trust that it will be properly made. Just buy coir and a bucket, and you can’t go wrong.

[@jpgiffney9811]

I think ive used way too much substrate to grain. My tubs are taking a long time to colonise. On day 10 now and only have small amount of growth. Should I abort the tub or just give it longer to colonoise ?

[@Mycophilia]

If it hasn’t colonized much at this point it could simply be contaminated or far too much substrate. Or both

[@jpgiffney9811]

@@Mycophiliadamn. Thanks anyway man. I have one tub growing pretty well but i used an extra quart grain spawn in that tub. I was thinking the substrate might be too dry in the slow growing tubs..and maybe a good mist might help...but not sure. Just tryna find the will power to not open the tub for a few more days.

[@spontaneousbootay]

​@@jpgiffney9811how did they go? Drier subs colonize faster

[@Taboloncawonthemasters]

I got a 64qt mono. How many pounds of coir/Verm should I need? I’m using the grain spawn bag from midwestgrow, how many of those spawn bags per 64qt do I need to mix with the sub? HELP!!! Thanks!!

[@mattborski]

I didn't pick this video to watch the sky. Please show how much coir you're measuring out. Show us how you add spawn to sub. And please please show us the tubs and the results.

[@Mycophilia]

No, I cannot show results as that means showing fruits, which I do not do on KZbin.

[@Mycophilia]

There is no point showing the coir and the tubs, as the amounts you need to use will vary depending on the size of your fruiting container. The key takeaway is the information in this video, not pictures of the sky.

[@jaysid0]

Why do you separate poo lovers and coir lovers? I thought they were the same.

[@Mycophilia]

tinyurl.com/Species-Key

[@ItsCheechFool]

1:2.7

[@nates.9100]

I go 1:2 to 1:2.5 for my grasslovers when going for bulked sclerotia and it works very well to keep nutrients close enough to consolidate while giving enough room to expand. I tend to over hydrate my coir for them since they suck up so much!

[@Mycophilia]

Yep 1:2 is usually what I go for, higher for stones. Thanks for the comment 😊

[@billderuwe9440]

🍄❤️

[@necrophagus9]

1:4

[@grubol5332]

coir lovers

[@billderuwe9440]

Mushlove mushfam

[@Mycophilia]

🍄 💜

[@tstatus1206]

Does the amount and frequency you eat them affect yeild?

[@Mycophilia]

Not that I’m aware of 😉