RGB306 :: The NES Classic Edition VS. Original Hardware, Virtual Console & More / MY LIFE IN GAMING

[@LGR]

This was fantastically useful. I've watched quite a few reviews of this system, but they only touched on maybe half of what you guys did. Thanks a bunch for the info!

[@northwindkey]

So how's that AT power supply going?

[@camcosby3480]

Lazy Game Reviews LGR Good to see you here I'm a subscriber I love your channel

[@ErbilT]

In regards to the reduction of flashing images, they were likely removed to pass Nintendo's lot check guidelines. When I was QA over at Sega, several VC games and some Wii titles were flagged for flashing images due to seizure concerns. I noticed that the sword strike during the Ninja Gaiden attract mode was removed and I can say with 99% certainty that it was due to the games failing lot check.

[@milesgreb3537]

This is the only review of it that matters. No one breaks down stuff as well as you guys.

[@MelodyMix]

This is pretty much the best review for the NES classic!! Seriously, I *love* the little details you guys put into your videos :)

[@mjc0961]

Something as simple as the Mega Man jumping sound effect when they set down the NES Classic on an NES cartridge for size comparison brought a big dopey grin to my face.

[@Warrax22]

Wow the sound delay, it's very noticeable. No you are not crazy!

[@Kentama]

I noticed it too. Stuff like that drives me up the wall. It's good to know ahead of time at least.

[@그냥사람-e9f]

1~2 sec sound delay are hard to notice... right?

[@Ultronator]

I'm assuming there's no sound delay on Wii U VC? But I haven't checked in a while

[@Blue-cf8ho]

I noticed too. It would be very irritating for me.

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

I can't notice it very much...

[@gamezguy71]

You guys are simply amazing. I hardly want to watch any other KZbin channels now due to how professional you guys are. Now all I want is more of this RGB Master Class series for like, every console ever. Since I've gotten a Framemeister, you guys have helped me a lot in getting the best picture out of my retro games. Keep up the amazing work.

[@NinjaxShadowXx]

Was waiting for this episode ever since the NES Mini was announced. You guys rock!

[@LavenderAudio]

The sound lag is actually a bit of a deal breaker for me.

[@SageOwl]

The perils of emulation.

[@domdon950]

Lavender Harmony it's not the worst thing in the world...

[@ryrin6091]

Getting mugged isn't the worst thing in the world either. Still crappy though.

[@Lalo-dh8xq]

More like "the imput lag"

[@RP_Williams]

Hmm let's see, I could spend $60 and get 30 mostly excellent games (though slightly inaccurately emulated) in one fell swoop...or spend $250 just to get a modern NES clone that'll run on my only HD TV (who the F has a CRT nowadays?), then spend anywhere from $5-150 each for all these same carts i'll have to store and maintain. Speaking of deal breakers.

[@colefreddy1]

The NES Classic Edition is hacked, you can add the whole NES library Also the epilepsy filter can be switched off, so there wil be no blurring when you see a in game flicker. There is also an option to use a button combination (down + select) to go back to the main menu

[@Jouzujoe]

AWESOME! This should be required watching for anyone pissed they missed grabbing one of these.

[@ALONEAGAIN82]

I love your theme song, there is something very nostalgic/ sad about it. Absolutely amazing. And your videos are awesome too.

[@plutterton]

Insertion Shots: 1:04 2:01 2:03 2:05 2:10 2:16 2:32 3:24 3:26 5:36 5:51 14:54

[@clydecashDEEP]

*panting*

[@nocturnal0072]

I know exactly why I have this erection.

[@emmettturner9452]

"Nintendo has always prided themselves on the accuracy of emulation on the Virtual Console service" NO THEY DON'T! The ending to Ninja Gaiden is glitched on Wii VC (castle remains intact). The input mapping oversteers causing racers to spin out for no reason in Mario Kart 64 (much like using some unofficial 3rd-party controllers on a real N64), the analog mapping uses translation that mucks up certain moves, like Link's magic-less sword spin in OoT, the resolution of N64 emulation isn't even close (double), and the Classic Controller Pro will disable the B button when you get fancy with the analog stick (I uploaded a video to my CZroe channel). Every time they improve an emulator to release a new game those improvements don't get ported back to previous versions, which is why you see the spinning N on some N64 games and not others. Sorry, but their VC has always failed to impress and has never been something to be proud of. Look at the stickers hiding their shame on the back of Classic NES Series GBA games: it covers mention of a 2p mode that still exists in the emulator. There's just WAY too much latency to be playable.

[@j0nnyism]

N64 emulation has been very inaccurate on pc. It’s a shame Nintendo haven’t offered a decent alternative. Original hardware is still the only way to go for that and the Saturn. Maybe one day someone will get it right

[@pferreira1983]

The Wii VC games are full of bad emulation. Not sure what they meant there. 😂

[@carefulman3673]

@@j0nnyism mednafen has a good saturn emulator :) and for n64, yse the angrylion plug in for accuracy, or gliden64 for visuals. It's not cycle accurate, especially with cen64 dead, but it's not as bad as it used to be.

[@merlingt1]

I can always count on MLG to deliver the best assessment and reviews. Thanks for all the great videos.

[@themblan]

This video doused my desire for this evasive unicorn. Thank you.

[@ZetZatar]

Everything was "ok" up until the sound delay. Yikes! @_@'

[@bubbaritz83]

Great Ep. on this NES Classic. One of the best deconstructions of this unit I've seen. A+ work!

[@GameplayandTalk]

Great video as always. I'm glad to see you guys were able to get your hands on one of these.

[@johndee759]

Thank so much for this review. I like that you went into the technical details of the nes Classic and compared them to the original and fpga consoles.

[@PSYK0MANT1S]

The production values, and engineering talk on all your videos is stellar. Consider me a subscriber, and a watcher for as long as you keep uploading! Great work!

[@81casperflip]

Awesome videos as always. Can't believe you guys don't have 500k subscribers

[@bsolmaz13]

Something is severely off with the noise channel on the NES Classic. No reviewer until now pointed this out which drove me mad. Thanks for the thorough analysis guys!

[@ZiKoN22]

This shows theme always lifts my spirits :) Great review guys!!!

[@TheSwartz]

Thanks for addressing the sound differences. These videos focus so much on visuals (which is good) but one feedback would be to address audio in more depth as well :) Thanks!

[@RarefoilB]

11:03 Oops, that says "RGB303 & 304." Should say "RGB303 & 305."

[@vhsdinosaurgo]

This is the best breakdown of the NES Classic I have seen so far! Great job, guys. I'm definitely going to subscribe

[@bishopwilliams6817]

The reason for the noise is because its upscaled on a 4ktv. It does this on a ps2 also via HDMI adaptor. I also have a native 720p tv also and don't get the noise. So I believe it only effects on a 4k display

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] No, it's just there. Coury doesn't have a 4K TV anyway, or 4K capture. It appears either way, but it's probably harder to see on a 720p TV. Also, those PS2 adapters have a lot of noise because they just are kinda not very well made. They are extremely noisy compared to high quality component cables.

[@bishopwilliams6817]

My Life in Gaming I agree that the HDMI ps2 cable are not really native but I turned the contrast up on my 720p display to check the noise against a 4k display. After all even if the nes outputs native 720p the added upscale of a 4k may pose some noise. If u get time give it ago. I'm sure it'll help find the answer. Love your videos 👍

[@Sparkykelly1]

Great video guys. I love everything about your channel, right down to that intro song. My only gripe is the 2 weeks between videos, the waiting kills me 😂

[@juanviera3609]

So awaited review... yeah! finally you did it guys!

[@madfinntech]

Best review of NES Classic around, by far.

[@realevostevo]

Answered my questions. Awesome video guys!

[@R4SK0_001]

Nice video! I thought it was cool how you put up the sharpening filter to reveal how much noise there was.

[@GamerGoingGrey]

This was the review I was waiting for. Good to know what to expect when I finally track one down.

[@dcashley303]

Been waiting for this, one of the only videos on NES Mini worth a watch!

[@budfahnestock2418]

maybe that staticy fuzz noticed from sharpening the image is from some sort of feedback in the system itself, or maybe how it's powered

[@predabot__6778]

That was precisely what I was thinking too! Nintendo has had some issues with creep and interference from components recently - for instance, the connectivity-issues with the Switch Joycon at launch was caused by insufficient insulation. Having someone like SpawnWave take the piece apart and look at the internals could probably figure the issue out - some simple conductive foam might be all you need to get rid of the problem! = )

[@onesixr]

I was waiting for patiently for this video. Thank you

[@slot9]

Nice work guys! Thanks Wes for letting them use your system!

[@TaintedReality]

Always love seeing these educational videos from you guys! Keep up the excellent work!

[@void_visuals_]

I am quite surprised about how this channel does not have a lot more subscribers

[@UCs6ktlulE5BEeb3vBBOu6DQ]

This intro is so epic !

[@avifb]

I was looking forward to this video. Thank you!

[@xWindreaderx]

Finally video from you guys! :D

[@Breakbeats92.5]

Most underrated retro themed channel on YT.

[@ikto123]

Fantastic video, as always. Keep up the great work!

[@paulanderson929]

That sound delay was noticeable in your presentation. I think that would bother me, with the input lag... the AVS system is still looking like my pick since I have a good library of carts and possibility of getting more games. Thanks MLiG!

[@masterlee1988]

Yep, same for me, rather go for the retrousb AVS as well.

[@muckypup-riot]

Thanks for another great video guys!

[@ehyouman]

Great video was looking forward to this one, worth the wait! and yes we can hear it..... wow

[@jonathan2950]

Really interesting video. I've been playing mine since release and thought all the games looked great and played great, so I was genuinely expecting nothing but praise. How wrong I was! Really enjoyed seeing your comparisons to original hardware and other emulation methods, as it's not something I can do myself, except for Wii U VC which I thought was fine until I got this! I'll have to give it a few days before going back to playing on it, so hopefully I don't notice all the things you have pointed out 😀

[@trexslapfight]

Always love your videos guys. Awesome job.

[@nomisastro2000]

Great work guys. Top class production and very in depth. Always look forward to your content.

[@JMLRetroRoom]

Great video. Been waiting for it since the release of the mini.

[@luisribeiro7435]

First of all! Congrats. I bow to your videos and RGB series! Would be great to see one about the SNES Classic and the Mega Drive Classic (apparently there seem to exist several editions ! Which one the best!

[@monwoo10]

This thing is definitely worth it for the ability to mod the console to put every nes game onto it

[@googleboughtmee]

Finally a good video on this system! Love you guys.

[@masterlee1988]

I think I rather get a retrousb AVS after seeing this. Nice video on this as well.

[@RedArremer]

I got the NES Classic for collectable reasons, but yeah, AVS is a much better solution if you can afford it.

[@ThePorkTree]

i mean thats very "id rather get a bmw m3 than a Toyota Corolla." The amount of people REALLY cross shopping these is super low; the audiences don't intersect.

[@northwindkey]

I use an AVS with an Everdrive. Pretty much the same as this, but with the games that I want, and better sound.

[@ThePorkTree]

darkstar100x the same only that it costs ten times as much for your set up that's my point. it's what I'd prefer too, but it's not for everyone.

[@chigimonky]

Will Mitchell "ten times as much"... 10x70=$700 🤔

[@HamtaroSonicHedgehog]

Funny thing is, I recently got this thanks to my sister who was able to grab a couple of NES Classic Editions on ebay at a good deal after finding out about the discontinuation, and I didn't really notice any input lag when I tried the thing out, at least not to the point where it would hinder gameplay for me. Actions were quick and responsive for me. Maybe it's probably because my TV can handle these kinds of things better than some others. (Probably helps that the HDTV that I have only outputs 720p and 1080i.)

[@TenchiJeff]

Thank you, this is what I have been looking for.

[@cybersed57]

Very good analysis. Great work!

[@TheRealSeiferoth]

Some of the problems mentioned here can be fixed using the popular hack known as hakchi. Not only does this open up the ability to play more games than just the built-in selection, but it offers the ability to remove the epilepsy protection so those flashes run as intended, and change the way the CRT filter works so that you get a crisper image but still retain the scanlines. Also I don't personally own the NES classic, but I have modded my SNES classic to play NES games and I don't have any noticeable input lag. I don't know if that's an improvement in the SNES classic hardware/software, or the fact that I'm using a pc monitor with a 1ms response time (much less than you usually find on TV's), or both. Either way, though, that sound issue does still exist. I noticed the sword beams in Zelda 2 tend to make the noise just after the beam leaves the sword rather than as the stab motion occurs. I thought I was just misremembering the original and it was my imagination, but I'm glad you proved otherwise. It is a good option for those on a budget but there are better options out there as you guys have shown if price is not a barrier to entry. But if price is an issue, I'd argue this is better than running original hardware through composite, and if you don't own an original NES this is still good value for money especially now that it has been re-released and seems to be more readily available than before. If nothing else, it is definitely superior to the virtual console offerings and cheaper when you look at it in terms of price per game.

[@lyianx]

15:28 It will ALWAYS be Mike Tyson or no punchout for me.

[@pimpedoutstereos9747]

Great video guys. Keep up the good work

[@SuperLuigiSixty4]

Great review, guys! As usual. Very even handed. I can understand why some people with expansive collections and various HD setups (RGB, AVS) give this thing a hard time (not that you did) but, but for people like me who've only recently been able to put time and money into game collecting and AV improvements, it's a great way to play the games, and very convenient. Of the 25 NES carts I own (mostly my childhood collection), only six are on the NES Classic. Besides, I froze my butt off getting one at launch lol.

[@Nitroxity]

I think I mat know the reason for the noise on the picture. I had the same problem when buying my PS3. The HDMI cord was noticeably skinnier than usual. I plugged in my Wii U HDMI cable, and all noise was gone! This means that somehow, the NES Classic's HDMI cable may be flawed.

[@Gladson]

The CRT filter on the NES and SNES minis replicate CRT through RF pretty well, but for those like me who are now used to crisp image using RGB/Framemeister, it's not acceptable. I just wish there was a scanline option without that blur filter. For crisp image + scanlines I'll have to plug the minis into the Framemeister's HDMI input but I get weird results, the image is not 1:1 to what I get when I plug it directly to the TV, and I get no sound whatsoever. I think I don't know how to properly configure the xrgb mini for HDMI input (works brilliantly with the RGB input tough)

[@eloratings]

I finally got one from GameStop. I had to pre order it last week. They came out last week on July 20th.

[@Microwave414]

I think the film effect going on the back of the screen is to simulate the same effect you would get on a consumer grade CRT even if you did use shielded cables. Shouldn't be on every setting but it should be on the CRT filter.

[@jayo1212]

@8:46 Now, I noticed that some pixels seem to have been smoothed, even in Pixel Perfect. One of the noticeable instances is in Super Mario Bros., look how rounded his shoulders are when he is standing in front of the green bush, compared to when he is standing against the wall. It rather annoys me because the pixels aren't jagged like they should be! Is that a filter that Nintendo added, or is that just how my 1080p TV upscales the image?

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] That's mostly just how your TV is handling the upscale of the image. What pixel perfect means is not sharp pixels, it means that ever pixel is an even size (which is the incorrect aspect ratio, but that's better than the shimmer trade-off).

[@AllieRX]

Phenomenal job as always!

[@eskimojoe6564]

Still looks amazing sitting on the shelf.I normally play my nes games on my av famicom on my ol crt.

[@lucaseverin666]

I think its kinda goofy that its so small and the controller wire is so short but i love the quality of the emulation

[@Tailslol]

actually it seems the crt filter and image noise seems to be based of the nes top loader that was rf only...

[@marceloramos2939]

Best review for the NES classic guys!!! Please do the retrobit generations!!

[@DonYagamoth]

I appreciate you emphasizing the point of input lag by selecting and inserting a Seiken Densetsu 3 cartridge - as much as I like that game, it really emphasizes style over controls ^^;

[@TheThoughtful1]

Where did you get that Phantasy Star graphic showing the characters from PS2,3, &4? 2:40

[@GrnArrow092]

Two years later, Nintendo has since brought the NES Classic back into production. I was glad they did because I was able to purchase mine at Best Buy for $60. I remembered that there was a way to hack the console and add more games, so I did just that. I now have 106 games on my NES Classic and they all work like they would on the original hardware. I couldn't be happier with my purchase.

[@chesleycalloway]

Great job guys!

[@OrangeGeemer]

I think the nes mini controller is one of the never release wii retro controllers, those were supposed to work conected to the wii remote so they would have a short cable (like the wii classic controller).

[@Diablokiller999]

How about an emulation mini-series? Maybe introduce some filtering methods or scaler like HQ, Lanczos, SAI,SAL, phosphor etc.? I bet most people really don't know their specific effects ^^ After introducing the NES Mini Filtering-Methods it would be nice to have a small compendium at hand and I think you guys are the perfect fit for this topic :)

[@nocturnal0072]

I think the topic of emulation is a rabbit hole. It will never end.

[@Blueflag04]

16:15 the noise gets progressively louder?

[@slowcar68]

Well done, thanks guys!

[@Nihilous]

This was exactly what I wanted to know and what every other review fails to mention. Shimmer, input lag, noise, sound delay... I'll stick with my AVS then.

[@freezingicekirby]

I was on the fence regarding this thing, but I think I'll definitely pass after all. It just doesn't seem worth it, especially since I already own most of those games on the real hardware & virtual console, and the ones I don't... well, there's a reason I don't own them. If anything, I'd like to get a hold of that controller. I'd love to use it for my virtual console games on the Wii/Wii U.

[@ironhide3732]

The Raspberry Pi Retropie option runs Circles around this console. Besides the fact you can choose the RGB color Palette the NES classic Uses, you can even use a NES Classic Theme for the Frontend on the Raspberry Pi. and the emulation is superb even if it's not original hardware. Amazing Video!

[@furydeath]

The Iron Universe not sure what's worst the cry. of. under stock or everyone going on about pi

[@ironhide3732]

furydeath Yeah I feel ya. If I were crazy enough about the NES Classic I would just get a 3D Printed case of the NES Classic for my retropie

[@lawrencechpo92]

Did ya see the rerelease version of NES Classic Mini? Besides the front box art difference, everything looks the same except the adapter is little bigger and easier to hold than the original adopter.

[@Jelster64]

Amazing video like always :D

[@WhiffleBoy255]

Always good stuff!

[@Sparkykelly1]

I pre-ordered mine back in July & got it on release. Unfortunately it's a Xmas present so I have to wait till Xmas to play mine but I did start it up quickly just to be sure it's working, and I'm very happy with it. I do however need to buy a longer HDMI cable & I might try get one of the WII classic controllers to have a longer cable. ps. The console doesn't come with a plug. it was advertised that way so not sure if it's all of Europe or just Ireland that was hit like that.

[@104d_3rr0r_vince]

This is the best review of this system so far.

[@CNETech]

I always wondered why the cartridge slot is still a thing on the NES Classic. Maybe it's just for decoration?

[@goodall1bay]

I think these mini consols are brilliant. I have taken them on caravan trips and to friends and family homes.

[@colefreddy1]

The emulation is way better than the WII(U) VC. And we Europeans finally can play the 60Hz versions of the games in HD from a legal source. I didn't have any lag while playing on the NES Mini and I had zero audio delay. On the Wii(U) VC I had way more lag and audio issues

[@Sparkykelly1]

Freddy's Jeugdsentiment Were you shafted with no plug included in the box or was that just Ireland. I always felt that having 60hz on our tvs we had one up on the states. I wonder if some of the issues noted in this video is because of that.

[@colefreddy1]

I live in the Netherlands, there was no power supply in the box but I used a old smartphone charger. Plus I used a extender cable for the nes controller and it works amazingly well 60Hz is amazing the game runs at the right speed. I didn't have any of the problems that they showed in the video.

[@Sparkykelly1]

Freddy's Jeugdsentiment Where did you get the extender cable. glad to hear we weren't the only ones that got shafted on the plug.

[@colefreddy1]

I bought it years ago for the classic controller because my wiimote was far of the tv

[@Sparkykelly1]

Freddy's Jeugdsentiment Cheers for that, just got two off EBay 😁

[@saeklin]

Still thinking the AVS in an NES shell would be ideal, but for ease of use with the library, I may grab this device someday.

[@KWKBOX]

I am surprised they put such time sensitive games like Punchout and Ninja Gaiden on here knowing there was lag input.

[@jonizon3978]

Don't be ridiculous, only YOU are going to notice.

[@KWKBOX]

***** Me and everyone that remembers being able to beat these games without lag.

[@TylerSteven9]

How is "input lag" even a thing in 2016? I think it's mostly placebo to be honest. Good excuses when losing in a game.

[@MaximRecoil]

I'm more surprised that Nintendo themselves can't even properly emulate their own proprietary NES hardware platform. They don't even have to reverse engineer anything; they have 100% documentation ... it's THEIR design. It should be the best NES emulator ever made, but it isn't even as good as the best freeware emulators.

[@MaximRecoil]

>How is "input lag" even a thing in 2016? Is that a joke? Lag keeps getting worse all the time. Digital TVs inherently have display lag, which keeps getting worse because they keep adding features which slow things down. The fastest console/display combination was an Atari 2600 (introduced in 1977) connected to a standard CRT TV (became mainstream just after WWII). There was effectively zero lag in that setup, because the Atari 2600 had no video frame buffer; programmers had to "race the beam". On top of that, the electron guns in a standard CRT TV respond to a video signal in what is effectively "real time". So while that setup does have some lag, it could only be measured in nanoseconds, because everything is happening at the speed of electricity. Lag from modern digital TVs is as high as 70 milliseconds, which is over 4 video frames @ 60 Hz. A millisecond (one thousandth of a second) is an eternity compared to a nanosecond (one billionth of a second). Additionally, most consoles, including older ones such as the original NES, have a video frame buffer, which adds at least one frame of lag (~16 milliseconds @ 60 Hz) to their output. The people who blindly assume that the latest technology does everything better than older technology make me laugh. I assume they are either young, stupid, or both.

[@chevy-is-a-good-boy]

Superb review! The Classic NES looks awesome on display, good thing too since I forgot how much I didn't care for the 8 bit era of games XD Bring on the SNES!

[@SoloWing88]

always interesting to see the options for games.

[@colefreddy1]

I also didn't have any video noise, try a better HDMI cable

[@justanotheryoutubechannel]

Is the NES Virtual Console different in America or something? Because I live in Britain, and the NES Virtual Console looked pretty good when I saw my brother was playing Kirby’s Adventure. It was sharp, and vibrant.

[@pokepress]

It could also serve as a preview of what NES VC will look like on the Switch. Hopefully they can knock a few frames off the sound lag there. Does the CRT display mode seem comparable to the one in Mario Maker?

[@pepsihabbit]

Great review!

[@ParanoidThalyyMVS]

It's a shame MLiG never did a video on the NES Classic when hacked :( This one was really great though!