I'd be interested to know other people's favourite scenes? Or the darkest? Here's a link to an old video I made about tips for worldbuilding kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIPadYune7uGpsk And this lil' link here be to patreon: www.patreon.com/mylittlethoughttree
@FlottisPar3 жыл бұрын
"I cant carry it for you, but I can carry you!" and "Ride to ruin and the worlds ending!" Makes me cry. Every single. Time.
@marvelsandals42283 жыл бұрын
Boromir's "final sequence" in Fellowship. I rationally know everything that happens in the sequence, but when I sit and watch it, take in the visuals, the expressions on the actor's faces, the soundtrack, etc. it makes me cry. There are so many conflicting emotions and concepts swirling around, which perfectly captures the character of Boromir, who is a walking contradiction, a hero and a villain, good and bad intentions, a sense of brotherhood with Aragorn and yet anger for the threat he poses as the heir of Gondor, etc. Who is Boromir? It is never fully clear. I imagine even he himself isn't 100% sure. Ultimately he is tempted by the ring, but everyone was tempted by the ring. Look at Smeagol here! THIS is what the ring does to people, to EVERYONE. It poisons your mind and turns you into a hideous monster, unrecognizable from the person you were. In that way I think your comparison to substance abuse really hits the nail on the head. It is so easy to judge an "addict" as just a bad person who made bad decisions. The only mistake someone in that situation really made was trying their substance of choice for the first time. After that, they're hooked, they're dependent on it, it manipulates them like a puppeteer, clouds their judgment, takes away their ability to be rational. Yes, Smeagol did kill Deagol, but look at Deagol! If Deagol had gained the upper hand in that brawl, I have no doubt in my mind that he would have strangled Smeagol the same way and likely become the same twisted creature Smeagol became. That's the point: it doesn't matter how "good" you are, the ring posses you like a demon. Gollum is NOT Smeagol, Gollum is the ring's power at work, and the same can be said for Boromir when he was tempted. Frodo himself said it best "you are not yourself." What makes me cry is the way Boromir realized the gravity of his mistake, his anguish, his tears, his selfless struggle to try and make it right. If he can't protect Frodo, he will protect Frodo's friends, the other hobbits. If none of these things bring a tear to my eye, when Aragorn speaks to him before the end, that part never fails to make me weep uncontrollably. Boromir is many things but in his mind he believes his true self is the traitor who tried to seize the ring, but he is wrong. His allies KNOW he is wrong, because they saw his acts of heroism, and they know the only reason he was tempted is because the ring is a cursed magical object that none can resist for long. I think that's the greatest tragedy of Boromir: his allies know he is a true hero, but he can't accept that. Instead he accepts Aragorn as the rightful heir to the throne of Gondor. Aragorn, like Boromir, is too aware of his own weakness, and has a poor opinion of himself, likely feeling unfit to take on this responsibility, but now Boromir has practically appointed him to the task. Boromir's trust in Aragorn is enough. Now he MUST rise to the occasion, to honor his departed friend and role model. He will save Gondor and will be the best king ever, for Boromir's sake, so that Boromir can rest in peace. Beautiful.
@AmaraJordanMusic3 жыл бұрын
My favorite line is, “For Frodo,” and my fiancé is going to turn to his best man and say it right before he says, “I do.” 😅 My favorite scene is Arwen seeing the vision of her son and then going and dressing down her father for not giving her context, attempting to take away her agency. The darkest for me may actually be Elrond’s reply of, “this is what will happen to you.” My parents had a beautiful love story and my dad had to watch my mom die a horrible slow death, and if he’s like his family, he has 20-25 years of health left. Being trapped in a world that no longer contains your person, all of your people gone, the last of your kind in a world that’s fundamentally changed… it really hits me every time. My other possible favorite scenes are the lighting of the beacons (the MUSIC, Howard Shore, everybody!!!) or Gandalf making Pippin less scared of death. We used Into the West as a memorial song for my mentor who died, and later, the night before my mother died, I played it for her on the piano. It has a lot of meaning for my family. “And then you see it….” “See what, Gandalf?”
@WhitePhoenixCrown3 жыл бұрын
My favorite scene is when Aragon comments "you bow to no one" speaking to the hobbits. You should also see the video for gollum's song. It always makes me cry.
@marvelsandals42283 жыл бұрын
@@WhitePhoenixCrown That was a great moment, wasn't it? The four of them just look absolutely shocked by what's happening. I think it is especially satisfying because of all the horrible things they've endured throughout these movies, almost dying so many times, and they never seriously considered that other people would have that much reverence towards them. There's a similar energy right before they have their final stand at the gate of Mordor. There's an eerie silence, Aragorn turns to the others and quietly says "...for Frodo." Then they charge into battle. I don't think Frodo in his wildest dreams would have imagined an army of all Sauron's enemies would use his name as their final battlecry.
@colemanbubar50983 жыл бұрын
I think the reason Frodo sympathizes with Gollum is because he believes that if there’s no hope for Gollum to be redeemed, there’s no hope for himself to be free of the rings influence
@squamish42442 жыл бұрын
Also because he knows the power of the Ring personally, unlike anyone else. It's like how former addicts are generally a lot more sympathetic to present addicts because they know how it seizes control of your mind and you would never have chosen to set out to destroy your life, which is STILL the most popular interpretation of addicts although it makes no sense.
@makiroll218 Жыл бұрын
Or maybe that he can see what the ring did to Sméagol and what he went through and still is going through could happen to him if the ring took control of him. He pities him and it’s the first time anyone has treated him as a human and not a monster
@Keijspermeister3 жыл бұрын
Was it me or did half smeagol gollum transformation thingy look way scarier than Gollum itself
@ms08243 ай бұрын
Totally. Gollum is actually kinda cute at times.
@ericstoverink65793 жыл бұрын
I would love to hear your take on Pippin. His journey is often overlooked in LOTR because he's not one of the "main" heroes, and he's commonly talked about only in relation to Merry. But (SPOILER ALERT), by the climax of the story, the tremendous guilt he must be feeling must be overwhelming. Gandalf died because of him. Boromir died protecting him. And now Sauron is attacking Minas Tirith before they are prepared because of him. I think it really puts in perspective why he's so concerned with saving Faramir, even though he's someone he barely knows. He doesn't want yet another death on his hands because of his own inaction. He does do some heroic things throughout the trilogy, but his perceived guilt has to be weighing on him.
@groofay3 жыл бұрын
I think that's why he literally throws himself at Denethor's feet to serve Gondor. The guilt and trauma that's been eating at him since joining the Fellowship, pretty much on a lark at first, is too overwhelming for him to keep down at that moment.
@schwarzerritter57243 жыл бұрын
Are you talking about the scene mere Pippin drops a rock down the well in Moria? I think in the movie it was a bucket. We don't know for certain that is the reason Gandalf died; but yes, it probably is in Pippin's mind.
@ericstoverink65793 жыл бұрын
@@schwarzerritter5724 right. Everything I wrote about Pippin's guilt would be from his point of view. He may not be totally responsible for all of the setbacks that the Fellowship has, but I think it would be realistic if he felt that he was.
@ericstoverink65793 жыл бұрын
In a way, I think Pippin also follows the hero's journey story arc, ending with the Scouring of the Shire.
@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t3 жыл бұрын
@@schwarzerritter5724 Pippin and Merry are the ones lobbing rocks into the pool and (maybe) attracting the attention of the Watcher, which forces the Fellowship into Moria to begin with, too.
@jasonellis49163 жыл бұрын
Just a little help in your lore knowledge: the fight between Deagol and Seagol happens in the Gladden Fields on the river Anduin, not in the Shire. For that was where Isildur died and lost the Ring
@brittanybowen25043 жыл бұрын
Came here to say this as well.
@jasonellis49163 жыл бұрын
@@brittanybowen2504 Hehe! And i spelt Smeagol wrong! Was just trying to be helpful too
@userNo319095803 жыл бұрын
@@jasonellis4916 I would pay to see a fight between Deagol and Seagal.
@mylittlethoughttree3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I don't know how I forgot that. I even watched a video about Gollum's history to recap before I made this video....guess this is what happens when you work on videos late in the evenings 😆
@charlesbluett81953 жыл бұрын
Seagull
@hippo15803 жыл бұрын
After killing Deagol, Smeagol did go back to his family and was judged greatly. He was actually called 'Gollum' by them, which sort of sets up the identity of Gollum as a kind of acceptance of the scorn he felt from the world.
@mevb3 жыл бұрын
In the book Sméagol hid Déagol's corpse so it was never found but he used the Ring to find out secrets which he used for his own advantage but he was found out of those deeds and were banished by his grandmother who was the matriarch of his family.
@UndeadSlayer53 жыл бұрын
@@mevb how would they know it was him if he was invisible
@smerf56803 жыл бұрын
@@UndeadSlayer5 the ring got off his finger
@veraanna51113 жыл бұрын
I can’t quite recall the exact words of the book, but it’s also implied that he steals babies from their cribs. That, too, was one of the reasons for his banishment, and would make him a murderer of babies too.
@gandalf82163 жыл бұрын
@@UndeadSlayer5 They suspected, so they verified. Also the ring betrayed him once while stealing, but that was a story about some magical ring not well received as believable by other hobbits, as hobbits doubt magic exists. But I'm not a real wizard, so do not take my word for it.
@ernestschroeder97623 жыл бұрын
Smeagol doesn't come from the shire, he belongs to an extinct race of hobbits who lived on the other side of the misty mountains.
@prettyokandy2303 жыл бұрын
correct, however i'm not sure they are necessarily extinct tho.
@ernestschroeder97623 жыл бұрын
@@prettyokandy230 they had disappeared, Tolkien said that as far as I can remember. Some may have made it to someplace else, like the entwives we will never know.
@prettyokandy2303 жыл бұрын
@@ernestschroeder9762 ow, ok thx!
@garyjones25613 жыл бұрын
Yeah, you're talking about Stoor Hobbits. They didn't live in the Shire; lived closer to the world of men. Closer to dwarves in hight. I think if Frodo and Sam stood next to a non-withered Smeagol, they'd be smaller than him.
@ernestschroeder97623 жыл бұрын
@@prettyokandy230 don't feel that I'm lecturing you. It's been nearly thirty years since I last read the books and I may be wrong and am fine with learning new things.
@Rekovnii3 жыл бұрын
Smeagol hooking the worm was symbolic of sauron hooking smeagol with the ring
@santiagoleal62453 жыл бұрын
Just after smeagol kills deagol you can hear an evil laugh, like Sauron or the Ring were watching it as a fun game
@joshuafischer6843 жыл бұрын
I love how when Deagol opens his hand to look at the Ring, you immediately hear the birds fly away.
@anakinskywalker88593 жыл бұрын
you can also hear it later when frodo succumbs to the ring in mount doom
@gojewla3 жыл бұрын
Except for the fact that he had no knowledge of gollum’s existence until after Gollum lost the ring.
@santiagoleal62453 жыл бұрын
@@gojewla that's why I say it could be Sauron or the Ring itself
@Unpainted_Huffhines3 жыл бұрын
Deagol was also Smeagol's cousin. It was very strongly implied that Smeagol began using the ring to kidnap, murder, and cannibalize other hobbits, even children and infants in cradles.
@groofay3 жыл бұрын
I've been thinking of the Ring as a sort of allegory for addiction*, except if anything even worse, because at least real-life addiction has an end: either sobriety or death. The Ring keeps you alive until your entire existence is an unending living hell. I think that's why Gollum's story is so utterly tragic and horrific to me, and his death ultimately merciful. *Yeah, I know Tolkien didn't like allegory, but this is my reading and he can stay out of it.
@bananamanchester41563 жыл бұрын
Tbh I dont think it's allegory,. The ring is metatextually addictive. It is a manifestation of power and evilness which are both addictive in their own ways, therefore it makes sense the ring would be addictive and attractive, especially to those like Smeagol who already have a mean streak.
@userNo319095803 жыл бұрын
I don't think Tolkien hated allegory as much as black and white interpretations of literary work where a thing is supposed to represent another thing. Or to put it in other works, interpretations where the allegory comes first and the value of the story is derived from the worthiness of the allegory. The ring is not supposed to represent a drug addiction but it'd be silly to claim that Tolkien never meant the ring and the addiction to it add richness of resonation to lord of the rings. At it's heart, the lord of the rings is about the hopelessness of struggle against all odds. "There's still good in this world and it's worth fighting for mr. Frodo" you know? But the allegory is on a much more General level. Nothing like "the ring represents nukes" or something childish like that. A one to one mapping of an allegory like that saps any story of a deep meaning and binds it to something temporary. I'm sure the guy who imagined eons of history for his creation would have hated for people to think it was in service of something that happened in our world in the fifties.
@sleepingdogpro3 жыл бұрын
I don't know; if you've ever known someone who's been an addict for a long time, where they've lost teeth and fingers and all of their friends, and they still keep shooting up ... I don't think it's that far off from what the ring does to you.
@groofay3 жыл бұрын
@@sleepingdogpro That's what I was saying, the Ring is worse if anything, in that at least drug abuse will kill you, but the Ring can keep you alive and suffering for centuries, as seen with Gollum. And that's entirely up to the Ring's will.
@TheEnderBand3 жыл бұрын
I had the thought during my addiction that I had become corrupted just like Gollum
@ThePonderer3 жыл бұрын
First time I saw Return of the King I was a VERY small child, and even I could subconsciously pick up on what a smart move it was to open with Sméagol and Deagol and have that whole scene underscoring Frodo and Sam’s relationship.
@marvelsandals42283 жыл бұрын
Even the visuals of two hobbits in a boat, smiling, clearly best friends...that is enough to remind the viewer of Frodo and Sam, who ended the first movie together in a boat. The parallel is very clear. I think it gets the viewer thinking about "how will Frodo and Sam's friendship turn out? Will the ring turn Frodo into a monster too? Will they end up fighting?" It makes you worry about the heroes.
@averysspookshowspectacular62053 жыл бұрын
Hard agree. I was even too scared to watch it most of the time, but I still peeked between my fingers because you can just sense how important it is.
@Matli18043 жыл бұрын
@@averysspookshowspectacular6205 yeah same this scene terrified me as a kid
@petesime3 жыл бұрын
I think a broader exploration of death in LOTR is warranted. I'm really interested in Theoden's journey, and I don't think it gets much coverage. One of the most emotive scenes I think is Theoden mourning his son. We are lucky to live in a time (unlike Tolkien), where we generally know peace - the chances of fighting in battles is exceedingly small. But it remains a massive fear for many that they would lose a child. And I think it explains why he's so risk-averse in protecting his realm, that they go to Helm's Deep rather than seek help from Gondor to make a stand against Saruman. Finally it's his acceptance of his own death at Pelennor Fields - leading a warcry of "Death!", that he feels worthy of going to the "halls of his fathers". Similarly, Gandalf's reassurance to Pippin about a "far green country" also explores how we come to terms with our own mortality. In Moria, Gimli's mourning of Balin is far more primal, compared to Legolas who seems confused when Gandalf falls and similarly bewildered at Boromir's death.
@marvelsandals42283 жыл бұрын
I forgot all about the scene where Pippin and Gandalf talk about death. Of course this is just a fictional story in with unique lore concerning an afterlife which Gandalf visited, but if we set that aside for a moment, the scene is more about reconciling with mortality. Pippin considers the high probability that they'll lose the upcoming battle and die, and he views this as "the end." Gandalf does not, speaking of death as if it is just another part of life, something which is normal, healthy, and even good. What I get out of that scene is that instead of fearing it, the appropriate way to deal with it is to CHOOSE how to live, and even how to die for yourself. In that way a person is able to have dignity and control, in spite being mortal. It reminds me of his conversation with Frodo in Fellowship. Frodo wishes that none of this had ever happened, and Gandalf replies "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." I am convinced these movies have a lot more depth to them then they sometimes get credit for.
@prettyokandy2303 жыл бұрын
i suppose it's different for an elf watching 'mortals' he cares about die, if it happens to other elves at least he knows what happens to them, knows it's good and can reasonably expect to see them again. edit: i suppose it might even be a new sort of emotion for him.
@ericstoverink65793 жыл бұрын
The contrast between Théoden and Denethor is very interesting. They are both in great despair. Neither of them feels that they can win. But they both react very differently. Book Denethor does do what he can to defend Minas Tirith, but his mind has been so poisoned by Sauron through the palantir that he has no hope. He stays behind his walls even despairing to the point of suicide. Movie Denethor is just bonkers despair. Théoden, on the other hand faces the enemy first hand. He doesn't allow his despair overtake him. He fights until his last breath to defend his people even though it seems hopeless. Hope vs. Despair is an overarching theme on LOTR, and this contrast between two leaders of nations is a wonderful example.
@ericstoverink65793 жыл бұрын
@@prettyokandy230 on the Director's commentary track on the Fellowship DVD, Peter Jackson says this same thing. Orlando Bloom was directed to react to Gandalf's and Boromir's deaths in total confusion, as mortality is something that Legolas is not used to seeing. It's subtle, but he really nails it in those scenes.
@alanpennie80133 жыл бұрын
Peter Sime Parents mourning children is a call back to WW1 specifically.
@schumerthd3 жыл бұрын
13:44 cursing the sun is a call back to the silmarillion. Melkor constantly destroys all of the light sources due to his desire to be the master of all light, which stims from his "daddy issues" with illumatar. You should definitely do a video on Melkor. Also, Gollum was tortured by Souron after Bilbo took the ring. This event would also push Gollum into distrusting people.
@MrSeanMDolan3 жыл бұрын
It’s aerie how deagol only dies due to only using one hand. Being so consumed with keeping possession of the ring at all times that he is killed for it. He could have simply put it anywhere and killed Sméagol, then pick it up after. I guess that’s the point though.
@KTChamberlain3 жыл бұрын
Another great bit of symbolism in Tolkien is the quote "Not all that glitters is gold." The Ring personifies this. It may glitter and be made of gold, but it's not gold in the sense of being true, if you will. Is it a gold standard when something like the One Ring lies and leads you to a bitter end like it did Isildur, Deagol, and Smeagol? No. If the Ring was just a ring made of gold and had no semblance of Sauron's being in it, it would be a mere trinket. At least that's one way of looking at the One Ring, especially in this scene breakdown.
@danielcopeland35443 жыл бұрын
Except that "Not all that glitters is gold" isn't Tolkien; it's the original saying that Tolkien put a twist on with his line, which is "All that is gold does not glitter." That is, there is true value out there, but it may be hidden and not look flashy or showy. (For those who haven't read the book, the full poem is about Aragorn, and reads All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither; Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be Blade that was Broken, The crownless again shall be king. Arwen recites the second half of it in the _Return of the King_ movie, but we never get to hear the first half, which I thought was a pity.)
@squamish42442 жыл бұрын
I saw this movie in the theatre after waiting in line for an hour, already exhausted from barely sleeping the night before. Right away you get a real shock to your system. The evil was SO evil, the good was SO good, my emotions were a rollercoaster and I was drained and so hopped up by the end that I went home, laid in bed for an hour and then had nightmares. Good stuff lol
@breannahindi34783 жыл бұрын
In the scene of him fighting with himself, I love the detail of the different pupil sizes, signifying who is who. The amount of thought put into these movies are what make it something I could watch over and over again.
@blccdcrange3 жыл бұрын
Gollum's Song is my favorite from the movies bc it expresses his tragedy so well. It always somewhat annoyed me that Frodo sends Sam away in the movies, bc that doesn't happen in the books. But your video made me consider that it wasn't added for Frodo and Sams character development, but maybe was added to relate to back to Smeagol.
@Wulfjager3 жыл бұрын
500 years and he was still crippled by the murder of his best friend. imagine holding the weight of murdering your best friend in the 1500s to today
@mikehunt45033 жыл бұрын
Cousin
@carlybfilmclub58513 жыл бұрын
@@mikehunt4503 and best friend
@howardroark85082 жыл бұрын
Lmao
@Maliniasredmask3 жыл бұрын
I feel extremely sorry for him... spending his life obsessed with a ring, and yet dying by its side is saddening.
@rubensoeteman3 жыл бұрын
I find it strikingly beautiful too. In a way
@nikezooms3 жыл бұрын
Junky101
@Jwallsmedia3 жыл бұрын
Like those who worship wealth, and die alone save the items they possessed in life
@jm58873 жыл бұрын
I mean if its any consolation he lost and was looking for the ring for nearly 60 years and in the end he finally got it back if for only a few seconds
@charlesjmouse2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Empathy, a good word. Indeed I'd say Gollum's story could be seen as a study in what empathy means; it's presence or absence in ourselves and others, how empathy is fundamental to everything we think and do, and how it may redeem or condemn any of us by it's presence or absence. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say there can be no 'good' without empathy and 'evil' is nothing more than the absence of empathy. It's sobering to consider that whenever any of us fails to find empathy we become the embodiment of evil to that thing or person.
@AffyisAffy3 жыл бұрын
When I compare the movies to the books, the movie version of the ring seems to bring out the dark side of human nature, almost reducing us to animal like urges. I think this is reflected in the sizing each other up moment, when Smeagol and Deagol are about to attack each other, and killing because he is so wrapped up in his own base feelings. They revolve around each other in an almost animalistic, intimidating way, not talking either. The way he looks at his hand after he regains his senses makes me think he wasn't using any logical faculties until he was done killing him. The books seem to me almost a direct metaphor for addiction, specifically drug addiction. Maybe I'm biased, but I think the emotional aspects of Jackson's version of the ring are more nuanced and have more emotional moments tied to it. I'm glad, too, because I think that plays better on the screen. This sequence was told very matter of factly in the book by gandalf as a historical event.
@Ro-Ghost3 жыл бұрын
I mean we are animals so makes sense
@Ro-Ghost3 жыл бұрын
@doug gilbert but he did live for a few hundred years Doesn't sound like such a bad deal
@magallanesagustin49523 жыл бұрын
@@Ro-Ghost yeah. Alone and miserable. What a "great" life, right?
@spiceupyourafterlife3 жыл бұрын
I don’t know what it is about this opening scene, but I always found Smeagol more unsettling as a hobbit than he was as Gollum. I can’t tell if it’s Andy Serkis’ amazing acting or because I know what he’s bound to become, but he’s just so unsettling!
@Seriously_Unserious3 жыл бұрын
A couple of points, first off, the battle between Smegle and Dregle did NOT happen in The Shire, as The Shire was not even settled yet, it happened on the shores of the River Anduin, East of the Misty Mountains and West of Mirkwood (before it had become corrupted by Sauron's influence). Smegle was a hobbit, or closely related race. It would have been impossible for that scene to have occurred anywhere near the Shire or Bree, as the One Ring was never west of the Misty Mountains until Bilbo brought it there. Also, Smegle, after he found the Ring, did live with his family in the unnamed villiage they lived in for some months after he found the Ring and murdered Deagle, who I think was not only Smegle's friend, but was also his cousin. The events, according to the books, that finally drove Smegle's family and community to drive him out were that he was using the Ring to steal and spy on others, including peeping on nude women, and started that gurgling "gollem" noise that lead to his nickname, before finally getting caught in his dirty tricks and exiled from his home.
@wellingtonsboots40743 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Enjoyed this. Watching Smeagol turn into Gollum was the darkest scene in the trilogy. My favourite scene i think is when Sam picks up Frodo and carries him. Remember how stirring that was watching in the cinema.
@buffshepherd15403 жыл бұрын
Brilliant! I'd like to add that the reason Frodo sees hope in Gollum is that he sees the tragedy of Gollum as a possible future for himself if the ring corrupts him. Frodo is so uncertain about his future, and putting his faith in the goodness of Smeagol reassures his fate somewhat. I think there is a scene where Sam says Gollum is hopeless and Frodo replies saying he has to see hope in him.
@charlottestephensonart3 жыл бұрын
I’ll admit I listened to this like a podcast with my phone screen face down on the table because I have never been able to watch Smeagol’s transition into Gollum since the first time I saw it when I was 10. I couldn’t sleep for weeks after seeing it because it scared me so much visually and because of how well it was executed! I still really enjoyed listening and I’d absolutely love more LOTR videos ! Subscribed 🥰
@joshuafischer6843 жыл бұрын
Gotta love Jackson's background in low-budget horror.
@charlottestephensonart3 жыл бұрын
@@joshuafischer684 absolutely!!
@Ro-Ghost3 жыл бұрын
@@charlottestephensonart i watched it around the same age and thought the scene was awesome
@woegarden2 жыл бұрын
deagols slight smile after turning to the left during the beginning of his and smeagols struggle for the ring always perplexes me in this scene
@tss33933 жыл бұрын
This scene scared the shit out of me so much as a kid that I would skip past it whenever I watched RotK 😭 body horror freaks me out, man!
@mylittlethoughttree3 жыл бұрын
the comments suggest you're not the only one!
@remains_BS3 жыл бұрын
Same man! Glad I'm not alone x)
@allamasadi79702 жыл бұрын
@@remains_BS it's because this is what evil is like in the real world, it's very visceral
@hgman39203 жыл бұрын
OMG! This is an amazing video. I've been watching the LotR trilogy for 20 years now (ever since first seeing it in the theater), and have never really given this scene all that much analysis. To me, it had always just been filler providing Gollum's backstory. It speaks to the brilliant nature of the film that 20 years later I can re-watch the scene in detail and discover an entirely new layer and depth to it.
@MySerpentine3 жыл бұрын
Poor broken Smeagol. He always was my favorite, god knows why. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.
@DamonNomad823 жыл бұрын
Excellent analysis of one of the most tragic, compelling and terrifying scenes in the LOTR films! You made a very good point about Smeagol gaining the Ring under far rougher circumstances than either Frodo or Bilbo did, and that being a contributing factor in his fall into darkness. I do have one minor quibble, however. Smeagol and Deagol were not in the Shire, which hadn't been settled yet at the time the scene takes place. Their tribe of Hobbits lived in the Gladden Fields by the Anduin River, at the place Isildur lost the Ring when he was killed.
@daveyjones61483 жыл бұрын
In relation to your point of him being cursed: Kin-slaying has a very strong theme and effect in Tolkiens world, the oath for the silmarils became a curse to the elves that tried to reclaim them for example. As well as verbally cursing and rejecting Smeagol for such a crime.
@tanyachristensen53303 жыл бұрын
I have trouble watching these scenes with Gollum and usually skip them.
@geekgroupie423 жыл бұрын
yeh they are really upsetting
@ernesto.carloz3 жыл бұрын
I always feared them as a kid. Now I enjoy it.
@jamiefesus28393 жыл бұрын
As someone who's been in abusive relationships, I thought it was just me who sort of identified with Smeagol's arc as representing a certain aspect of that in such a real emotional way. Really enjoyed this ramble about LotR, I hope you do more!
@chookity3723 жыл бұрын
I think that one of the reasons that this is the opening scene to the Return of the King is to re-establish the final scene of the previous movie. Throughout the entirety of the Two Towers, we are led to believe that Gollum is made up of two 'identities', Smeagol and Gollum. We are also led to believe the Smeagol represents the 'good', 'redeemable' aspects of the character whilst the Gollum side represents the character's 'bad' (some may say 'evil') side, 'cunning' aspects and ultimately his lust for the ring. This notion is entirely shattered in the final scene of the Two Towers (it is somewhat hinted at an earlier scene, I believe, but no where near the extent of this scene), when both Smeagol and Gollum are revealed to have a lust for the ring, both agreeing that they should lead Frodo and Sam to 'the tunnel' and 'kill them both.' Thus, at the start of the next movie, the Deagol/Smeagol scene reminds viewers that Smeagol, as well as Gollum, lust for the ring and are willing to kill for it. Some may argue that 'Smeagol turned into Gollum' when he first saw the ring in this scene, but I believe that (in the books) Smeagol was described to be poor and susceptible to power and does not possess a strong enough will to resist temptation. Therefore, it is perfectly plausible that Smeagol (rather than Gollum) was the one that killed Deagol. Smeagol was obviously blinded by the power of the ring, but it was ultimately Smeagol who killed Deagol as, at this point in time, the discrepancy between Smeagol and Gollum was not yet created (this would not have likely become apparent until many, or perhaps hundreds, of years later). Anyway just wanted to add that. Great video/analysis!
@Fun_With_Google_Translate3 жыл бұрын
Smeagol and Deagol didn't live in the Shire. They lived in the Gladden Fields along the Anduin River. This was the river where Isildur lost the ring and was killed.
@edmann18203 жыл бұрын
Golem's redemption is the first scene that springs to mind. The way I interpret it (from memory) is Golem knew he was going to die and was content with that knowing he'd never be parted from the ring again. Even if that meant unity in mutual destruction. The reason I like that scene so much is partly due to a criticism of Tolkien. His protagonists are all good, really good with not many faults. His antagonists are all really bad, evil, with no redeeming qualities. For some people, me, it leaves them feeling a bit shallow or unrealistic. While for others they love it, so horses for courses. We're told throughout the story that it has to be Frodo because he's the noblest, the most moral, etc. That scene flips everything we've been told on it's head. Suddenly the perfect Frodo can be weak, even he can be corrupted by power. On the flip side the guy to save the world and defeat evil is the weak willed monster. The other scene I thought of was Boromir's death. I think partly because it's really well shot. But it's also the redemption for a grey character, a man who has been corrupted. In this way he parallels Golem. Although it does make me wonder if Tolkein thought that death was the best way to redeem oneself.
@marvelsandals42283 жыл бұрын
I agree that Boromir's "final sequence" in Fellowship is fantastic. I rationally know everything that happens in the sequence, but when I sit and watch it, take in the visuals, the expressions on the actor's faces, the soundtrack, etc. it makes me cry. There are so many conflicting emotions and concepts swirling around, which perfectly captures the character of Boromir, who is a walking contradiction, a hero and a villain, good and bad intentions, a sense of brotherhood with Aragorn and yet anger for the threat he poses as the heir of Gondor, etc. Who is Boromir? It is never fully clear. I imagine even he himself isn't 100% sure. Ultimately he is tempted by the ring, but everyone was tempted by the ring. Look at Smeagol here! THIS is what the ring does to people, to EVERYONE. It poisons your mind and turns you into a hideous monster, unrecognizable from the person you were. In that way I think the comparison to substance abuse really hits the nail on the head. It is so easy to judge an "addict" as just a bad person who made bad decisions. The only mistake someone in that situation really made was trying their substance of choice for the first time. After that, they're hooked, they're dependent on it, it manipulates them like a puppeteer, clouds their judgment, takes away their ability to be rational. Yes, Smeagol did kill Deagol, but look at Deagol! If Deagol had gained the upper hand in that brawl, I have no doubt in my mind that he would have strangled Smeagol the same way and likely become the same twisted creature Smeagol became. That's the point: it doesn't matter how "good" you are, the ring posses you like a demon. Gollum is NOT Smeagol, Gollum is the ring's power at work, and the same can be said for Boromir when he was tempted. Frodo himself said it best "you are not yourself." What makes me cry is the way Boromir realized the gravity of his mistake, his anguish, his tears, his selfless struggle to try and make it right. If he can't protect Frodo, he will protect Frodo's friends, the other hobbits. If none of these things bring a tear to my eye, when Aragorn speaks to him before the end, that part never fails to make me weep uncontrollably. Boromir is many things but in his mind he believes his true self is the traitor who tried to seize the ring, but he is wrong. His allies KNOW he is wrong, because they saw his acts of heroism, and they know the only reason he was tempted is because the ring is a cursed magical object that none can resist for long. I think that's the greatest tragedy of Boromir: his allies know he is a true hero, but he can't accept that. Instead he accepts Aragorn as the rightful heir to the throne of Gondor. Aragorn, like Boromir, is too aware of his own weakness, and has a poor opinion of himself, likely feeling unfit to take on this responsibility, but now Boromir has practically appointed him to the task. Boromir's trust in Aragorn is enough. Now he MUST rise to the occasion, to honor his departed friend and role model. He will save Gondor and will be the best king ever, for Boromir's sake, so that Boromir can rest in peace. Beautiful.
@TiJacQc183 жыл бұрын
I disagree with the whole part on Gollum here. Gollum had no redemption and nor was Frodo the noblest character by far, they both failed. Neither wanted to destroy the ring, it was instead destroyed by accident. Frodo himself, though being good, failed to destroy the ring, thus making him a lot more gray of a character. I heard saying that, having the ring be destroyed by accident meant something along the lines of : Evil ultimately destroys itself. And having Gollum be the final blow to that destruction, with no intentions of destroying the ring then fortifies this for me. Evil accidentally destroyed itself. And also, again, by having Frodo failing to destroy the ring, making him much more of a gray character represents the corrupt nature of any human heart that may well chose evil even when one had to stray away from it. That even though we want to resist evil, we may fall for it. The story then becomes much more about the human heart and its potential failing in the face of evil, making this much more of a grey story (though an optimistic one) rather than the way you seemed to portray it.
@TiJacQc183 жыл бұрын
@Lisa Müller Beautifully said my friend!
@marvelsandals42283 жыл бұрын
@Lisa Müller I mean the simplified good vs. evil trope is in a lot of stories, even stories where the bad guys are supposedly human beings with backgrounds similar to the good guys. I think it works for this series, because of the existence of the ring. It is so easy to accept the premise of "orcs = bad, other characters = good" but then these supposedly good characters turn out to be the true villains, because they are tempted to evil by the ring. Boromir encapsulates that danger well. He is a well-intentioned warrior from Gondor who is willing to risk his own live to help the good guys save the world from Sauron whose troops threaten to invade his city. Yet, no matter how well-intentioned he is, he is tempted, even from the beginning he thinks "why not use the ring, use the weapon of the enemy to fight back?" Then as the story unfolds we gain more insight about Smeagol, and discover that he's not a monster at all, he's just an ordinary hobbit who was turned into a monster by the ring. The message there is that anyone even those who start out as good are capable of being tempted to evil. That message is reinforced at the end when even Frodo himself, in arms reach of destroying the ring fails in the exact same way the king did all those years ago. Nobody, no matter how good is beyond corruption. The ring was only destroyed by a freak accident. I will say that on reflection, if Bilbo or Frodo didn't take pity on Smeagol and spare his life, it is highly possible that the ring would never have been destroyed. Perhaps the universe was rewarding them for their compassion on Smeagol by fating him to unwittingly save the world by knocking the ring into the fire by mistake.
@marvelsandals42283 жыл бұрын
@Lisa Müller Indeed, while I think Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy doesn't hold a candle to the LotR Trilogy, I will give credit where credit is due. There are a lot of well done scenes especially in Unexpected Journey, like the whole sequence when Bilbo and Smeagol meet for the first time. I think the scene where Bilbo spares him is quite nice. There's no dialogue, Biblo simply draws his sword (while invisible due to the ring) and prepares to kill him, then the camera cuts back and forth between their faces. Smeagol looks so pathetic, weak, and miserable. He may not understand who he really is or how his life came to this, but he's completely alone, no friends, no home, and Bilbo just stole his only treasure. Then, without saying a word, Bilbo sheaths his sword and leaps over him, fleeing the cave. There's no need to kill Smeagol. He can escape without doing so. That's not what most warriors and thieves would do, but it is what HE decided to do, perhaps because he's an unusual hero, just an ordinary hobbit with no killer instinct. As Gandalf said "True courage is not knowing when to take a life, but when it spare it." Later, Frodo says "it's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him we he had the chance," which displeases Gandalf. Yet, in the end Frodo is the only one who truly understands Smeagol, because he is the ring bearer and knows what its like to carry that demonic ring for weeks and months on end. When he looks at Smeagol he just sees his own miserable future. Frodo understands that the Smeagol can't be held responsible for his actions, because he's just a slave to the ring. I also think that on some level Frodo has renewed determination to destroy the ring out of a benevolent wish to free Smeagol from its control. I recall Frodo says "I must destroy it...for both of our sakes."
@jacob49203 жыл бұрын
Great "what if" scenario plays out in my head: WHAT IF DEAGOL WOUND UP WITH THE RING??
@beeofapril3 жыл бұрын
Such a great video! The transformation of Smeagol to Gollum is one of my favorite scenes!! The music, Gollum’s dialogue, the physical changes…you really FEEL the terror of the ring. Did I mention the music? 😅
@taramathews73913 жыл бұрын
Bilbo i think was stronger then anyone else because he is the only one who willingly gave up the ring to Gandalf. Nobody else ever willingly gave it up, except maybe Sam but he'd only had it a short time
@CrystalStarWitchery3 жыл бұрын
The parallel between addiction and the ring always stands out to me.
@CrystalStarWitchery3 жыл бұрын
@doug gilbert It's a movie. Not the Bible. I know Tolkien was a Christian, but it's about World War 1. This is well known. You know it's creepy, your comment. Just bad vibes all around, pal. You deal with your sin. That's not my problem and I don't want to know about your struggle with pornography or hear your rehashed religious diatribe. You'll be blocked immediately.
@geekexmachina3 жыл бұрын
nice video, of course there have been scholars who feel Smegols fall is a parallel Cain and Abel or that frodo and gollum are 2 sides of a coin and is an example of the many dualistic couplings in the narrative. Its interesting to compare the peter Jackson iteration with the Ralph Bakshi one there. Certainly in terms of interpretations of personality and the psychological beats of the characters but also of what is implicitly and explicitly shown and revealed.
@BodieB3 жыл бұрын
Bilbo willingly gave up the ring after decades...amazing
@lilboogie98122 жыл бұрын
Amazing breakdown. Only one thing Id like to say but I’m sure its been pointed out: Smeagol isn’t from the Shire, he was from a group of hobbits (or possibly whatever the precursor to hobbits are) that lived in the Vales of Anduin. Other than that small detail I loved how thorough and thoughtful this breakdown was!
@nngnnadas3 жыл бұрын
smeagol won both fights, in the latter he got the ring and frodo was howling in pain on the floor, it ended with the winner's death.
@inactivated03 жыл бұрын
he also bit a body part off the live Frodo
@mylittlethoughttree3 жыл бұрын
But then Frodo got up again and pushed him off the edge. In boxing terms, Frodo got knocked down, got up at 9 seconds, then knocked Gollum out 😆
@nngnnadas3 жыл бұрын
@@mylittlethoughttree right I'm stupid, for some reason I thought gollum just slipped on his own. Oh Mr Frodo's you're a murderer.
@evelynd27833 жыл бұрын
@@nngnnadas Gollum did slip on his own in the books! Peter Jackson changed it for the movie to make Frodo seem more redeemable.
@nngnnadas3 жыл бұрын
@@evelynd2783 Isn't it the opposite? Making him fight to the bitter end over the ring make him look more corruptable. Though I guess he receive valerian redemption by being admitted on the ship to the west.
@chrisprescott22733 жыл бұрын
Every time I watch this scene my stomach drops. It's so dark, and sad, and I love it.
@ComedyBros53 жыл бұрын
Fantastic breakdown. Hadn't heard of your channel before this, but you've earned a new subscriber from it! I first saw this movie/scene when I was 8yrs old, and to this day, this scene is one of the most memorable/dark sequence I've seen play out on screen. At least, it's the one movie scene that has stuck with me the longest. It horrified me, and you perfectly explained why it did and still does!
@mylittlethoughttree3 жыл бұрын
Thankyou! Glad you enjoyed it, still horrifies me too. Andy Serkis was brilliant in the role
@damianspence3 жыл бұрын
I'm looking forward to more videos from you :) I'm amazed that I've not seen anyone else break down this scene and I'm looking forward to what your thoughts are of other sections in the trilogy
@Panzer_the_Merganser3 жыл бұрын
5:33 always loved the squawking of birds at this moment: the the Ring has returned and even nature is aware.
@juliansantos84783 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy your analysis. Please do more of the lord of the rings!
@AvaFayIliza3 жыл бұрын
Someone else may have mentioned this, but for an analysis of the relationship between Gollum and the hobbits of the fellowship, it's important to know that Smeagol/Gollum was *not* from the shire; in fact he had never been there at any point in his life (as I understand it). Smeagol's people, who have ancestry with the shire folk, were from along the river east of the Misty Mountains, whereas the shire is well west of those mountains. I know that Tolkien didn't like his work to be taken as allegory, but I think it was cretinous of him to think that people wouldn't do so (if he did indeed think that). I think it is essentially human to try to apply some aspect of every story one reads/hears/watches to life in an allegorical way. In fact I think this is why we tell stories, from an anthropological point of view. Anyway, great video as always! 💖 -Ava
@bananamanchester41563 жыл бұрын
I believe that in the book, it is explained that hobbits are not affected as severely by the power of the ring. Smeagol isn't a hobbit which is why he succumbed so quickly.
@AvaFayIliza3 жыл бұрын
@@bananamanchester4156 I understood that as well. While Smeagol (and his people) are related to hobbits, they are not really hobbits but something a little different.
@danielcopeland35443 жыл бұрын
What Tolkien actually said was: "But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." Tolkien was an English professor, who used the word "allegory" in a much more limited and technical sense than your average KZbinr. An "allegory" in this technical sense is a story like _The Pilgrim's Progress_ or _The Romance of the Rose._ In those, every single detail of the story world is a stand-in for some particular thing the author is trying to tell you about, and if you think it stands for something else, you are reading the book wrong. That's what Tolkien called the "purposed domination of the author". What you're talking about, where each reader finds something uniquely meaningful to them, is the "freedom of the reader", and Tolkien had no problem with that.
@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t3 жыл бұрын
@@danielcopeland3544 IIRC he was once asked if the One Ring was an allegory for nuclear weapons, and in his answer, noted that it could not be an allegory within the structure of the story; as the capture of the "One-Ring-as-nukes" would lead to an arms race as the peoples of Middle Earth scrambled to create their own to maintain some power parity with Gondor.
@AvaFayIliza3 жыл бұрын
@@danielcopeland3544 Thank you for your input. I will readily admit I am not even close to being an expert on Tolkien. While I love his works, I certainly haven't read every word. Having ADHD and Dyslexia, it's hard for me to read without getting distracted, so I usually listen to audio books. As such, I do miss things, like the forward, where the quote you pointed out is from. Having now read that and the surrounding text, I see that my thoughts were wrong on Tolkien's assessment of allegory vs applicability. I recant my statement that Tolkien could have been cretinous in this matter. Having now read this part of his forward, I realize I actually agree with his thoughts. Thanks again for pointing this out to me! 💖 -Ava
@hazbaska13 жыл бұрын
more of this, please! As a writer, i am super IN to this channel ^^
@xzonia13 жыл бұрын
I loved the LOTR movies, and I'm happy to watch any videos you do on them. X) It's weird for me to realize it's been several years now since I last watched these movies, and it's hard to pick a favorite scene now. I love that line from when Frodo offers the ring to Lady Galadriel, "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future." I love that message, which is said in different ways throughout the story, but the fact she says she'll diminish right before telling Frodo that line, and she seems relieved about it, really stuck with me. I also love all the hobbit antics and the elves and Gandalf. The whole trilogy is wonderful. :)
@lazyidiotofthemonth2 жыл бұрын
In the Book the Fellowship of the Ring, Gandalf, covers Smeagol's expulsion from the proto-hobbit community, from it we learn a few things. 1. The Hobbits are much less affected by the presence of the ring, though when aware of it, they can be deceived by it. Smeagol was already a odd person, and the ring brought out a nasty side to him, and much of his time between being expelled, and after taking the ring, was spent playing meant jokes on others, spying on bathing maids or worse was mentioned.
@nikczemna_symulakra2 жыл бұрын
As for the first time Frodo says he feels pity for Gollum, it is the obvious effect of Gandalf's words. But soon after there's that moment when he's confronting Sam for calling Gollum "a stinker" and running him down all the time, while Gollum was desperately trying to catch a fish (the scene after they abandon the idea to enter through the gates). Here's something different, and i always thought it is pretty much a result of him coming to the realization of how similar their story may be, that he may end up just like the other once a hobbit who'd been under the ring's influence far too long..
@alejandromorinigo99513 жыл бұрын
The extended cuts of this Trilogy is even better. My Favorite extended cut: The Return of The King.
@heathern80433 жыл бұрын
yes this scene has always stood out to me !
@starkravingmad93363 жыл бұрын
Love this and agree with your your analogy of the ring representing addition and or an abusive relationship. It spirals out to friendships family marked by the fellowship and all the death despair and trauma that it leaves in its wake. Would love for more LOTR content, maybe comparing the Hobbits as almost childlike characters dragged into adulthood far quicker than intended but their pure heart and hope (mainly Sam and Pippin) that drags them through. Keep up the great work!
@roccoborghetti46932 жыл бұрын
My favorite scene is the simple exchange between Pippin and Gandalf at the second or third level of Minas Tirith during the siege. The whole “Death is just another path” speech. Moves me to tears every time. I even used it during my eulogy to my grandfather.
@jmace2424 Жыл бұрын
I never noticed until now but the Deagol-Sméagol scene really has this Cain and Abel feel to it and then Sméagol the murderer is cast out line Cain.
@superrandomguy-lz4jf3 жыл бұрын
Thank you I always wanted someone to analyze this scene
@curtiswatson41923 жыл бұрын
This has became one of my favourite channels
@Azaghal19883 жыл бұрын
Small nitpick: Smeagol and Deagol are not fishing in the shire, they are in Gladden Fields. A region north of Lorien between the misty mountains and mirkwood where the river Gladden flows into the Anduin. Otherwise a great video that shines light on one of the most tragic characters in literature!
@Neocasturn3 жыл бұрын
I think Tolkien said in a letter or something that Smeagol was already somewhat disturbed/mentally ill before the murder of his cousin.
@redsinsaneurbex76913 жыл бұрын
This is my favourite scene from the series so thank you for making this!
@paryanindoeur3 жыл бұрын
Smeagol was not a Shirefolk. He was a member of a small clan of Stoor-halflings that had not migrated west to the Shire. He was from east of the Misty Mountains, I believe somewhere along the Anduin River, perhaps a bit north of Lothlorien. Also, the movies suggest he has committed murder just once, but the book suggests he has committed _countless_ unspeakable deeds, including stealing babies from cradles when their parents are not watching, and eating them.
@alanpennie80133 жыл бұрын
Gollum's family cursing him and expelling him from their hole is something Gandalf describes to Frodo (in The Shadow of The Past chapter) as having actually happened. Of course this assertion is based on Gollum's own testimony, though Gandalf may also have mystical insight.
@chemeister2 жыл бұрын
For me the darkest scene was when Denethor tries to cremate his son alive. And the best moment was when Shadowfrax yeets *him* into the fire.
@Invirulent3 жыл бұрын
How have I not realized that you NEED to do a Gollum character study?!
@Die-CastMetal3 жыл бұрын
Great Analysis, I think you’re spot on!
@semp2243 жыл бұрын
It is the most tragic indeed
@harryfromwork Жыл бұрын
I did a LOTR tour in Wellington, NZ. Me and this guy I met on the tour saw the place where this scene was shot. Legend has it that after filming the murder of Deagol, the grass at that spot died, and has not grown back. There was a creepy vibe there. We then reaenacted the scene with me being Deagol. Fun times
@Barnabas642 жыл бұрын
Watching this a year later but Tolkien wept while writing about Gollum failing to be redeemed. "Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo’s knee- but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing."
@SeanLKearns3 жыл бұрын
To me the ring symbolizes suffering in many forms. The fact that it can usually be found in the low places of the world by someone who is vulnerable, someone who desires to conquer death. The thirst for power bringing out the worst in human behavior.
@scolioreset3 жыл бұрын
I think an important, small shot is missing from the analysis and it's Bilbo's short transformation into what is essentially Gollum since it is part of what made Smeagol a little more tragic. I just love how, in The Return of the King, Gollum is simply evil, a twisted, fleshed manifestation of the Ring's power next to Frodo. Sam wanted Frodo to destroy the Ring as much as Sam himself wanted to kill Gollum. The closer the Ring aproached Sauron, Gollum became even more of a villain. Two of my favorite shots: the one where he looks at him/themselves and a saliva drop falls into the lake, the other at the stairs when Sam is shouting at Gollum to go away, the latter backing out but ready to pounce. Also Sam crying after being shunned by Frodo is clearly a reversal of Smeagol thrown away (by the Ring). Regardless of the empathy we can have for Smeagol, there is one moment where it becomes impossible to respect him and wish for his redemption: "Smeagol lied."
@paryanindoeur3 жыл бұрын
It could be said that Gollum lost both fights for the Ring in that he won both of them. I've long considered the somewhat philosophical musing that Deagol got the much better deal in dying at the hands of Smeagol in that first fight, and Frodo definitely won by losing his fight for the Ring at Mount Doom.
@seanbardwell20673 жыл бұрын
Oh I just started watching this video from my recommended tab then finally realised it was you. That's so cool, lots more LOTR videos please. I even went through the strenuous effort of typing this comment to beg it of you 😝
@coyote42373 жыл бұрын
This was much appreciated. Very well done. More, please. Have you considered breaking down Shakespeare's characters at all?
@jesusflores3983 жыл бұрын
This is such a great video!
@Don-ol8ze3 жыл бұрын
Lost! My precious is lost... I have always loved the (deliberate?) double-meaning of these words. It says so much about the tragedy of Smeagol's character. Also, absolutely brilliant the "first" picture of the Ring, its gold covered in the slime of the riverbed - a perfect encapsulation of the "appearance vs. reality" element at its core. It appears "so bright, so beautiful," but it is really the foundation of ultimate corruption.
@anakinskywalker88592 жыл бұрын
if you thought Smeagol's transformation was bad, there's a deleted scene from the Two Towers where Faramir has a vision of Frodo transforming into a Gollum-like creature.
@loonie54683 жыл бұрын
Smeagol's fate is an excellent warning for (would-be) loners that was ahead of its time, intentional or not. It's not the fact that him becoming a loner is what corrupted him. It's becoming one with nothing other than a corruptive influence to keep him company. In this story it's the one ring...in modern day it can be alcohol (I drink alone), or videogames, or gambling (the lone gamblers that just robotically lose money at slot machines), or even an over-reliance on one single abusive person. It's also why it's essential for me to balance the few that I have with twice as many healthy ones.
@rocksnrolls3 жыл бұрын
I have never looked at the trilogy like this. And I used to watch it religiously when younger and watch them at least once a year now. But it is a very interesting view point.
@gi0nbecell3 жыл бұрын
There is one mistake you made: you described Sméagol and Déagol as „Shire-Folk“, even as Hobbits. Which they were not. They lived, as Gandalf explained, at the Shores of the River Anduin. They belonged to a people not unsolidarischere to Hobbits, they may even be the ancestors of some Hobbits (there are different „races“, for need of a better word, differing for instance in height, hair colour, skin colour - but not as divers as black and white, more like white/asian/middle-eastern - and their traditional affiliation with water). Sméagol, however, never lived in the Shire, which, as anyone should even know from the films, is located west of the Misty Mountains, while Sméagol‘s people lived far east of them (as the Anduin flows between Mirkwood and the mountains, meanders south, past Lothlórien, dividing Rohan from the Brown Lands, enters Gondor at the Falls of Rauros, continues through the plaines between the White Montains (where Minas Tirith is located) and the Mountains of Shadow (housing Minas Morgul and marking the border to Mordor), south through the ancient Gondorian capital, Osgiliath, then directing south-east, past the port of Pelargir and entering the Great Sea at it’s Delta, the Mouths of Anduin. It has a length of about 1.3k miles (or over 2.5k km). Where exactly the hobbit-like people lived, is buried deep in Tolkien lore, but iirc they lived somewhere in the Gladden Fields, south of the Carrock and north of Lórien, because it was there where Isildur was killed and Déagol found the Ring centuries later.
@wrybreadspread3 жыл бұрын
The tragic irony...Sméagol defeats both Déagol and Frodo for the possession of the Ring, but it avails him naught.
@theviper1999uk3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video! The film is truly a divine gift. Everything came together, everyone played their parts, and there are endless beautiful stories within as a result. Thanks for this video, and I'd love to hear more about the Lord of the Rings from you!! :)
@Otherwise883 жыл бұрын
I'd be interested in more videos like this.
@arobbo283 жыл бұрын
great video, would love to watch a series of lotr breakdown vids. i'd also highly recommend reading the books, as they really do give much more insight than the films.
@h_nt_r3 жыл бұрын
It would have been excellent if they could have just had Andy Serkis stay in that super creepy practical makeup and suit the entire 3 movies. It would have shown much better how dark and disgusting Gollum really was supposed to be in contrast the large amount of unnecessary comedic relief they had for him with the cgi. But of course that would have been hell for him probably.
@spencerblake57133 жыл бұрын
He actually was driven off by his people, I think it was actually his aunt that sent him away (though Im not 100% on that)
@Omoplataha3 жыл бұрын
You are correct. Gollum (born as Smeagol) was Stoor hobbit living near the Anduin. They had a Matriarch ruling over them who happened to be Gollums grandmother. It is she who expells Gollum after the ring starts corrupting and changing him
@fabulousmyriad2673 жыл бұрын
Gollum's fond memories of his grandmother become tainted after she banished him. In the Hobbit novel, he disassociates from all memories of sunlight, green and family members, resenting them for "excluding" him, but unable to see his obsession with the ring corrupting his personality
@bananamanchester41563 жыл бұрын
I have a theory that the ring being addictive is not allegorical, it is cannon. One of the main themes of the book is the corruptive nature of power and the ring is a physical manifestation of the power of Sauron. When someone wears it they can feel that power, which I imagine is very addictive. Plus, the ring forces the wearer to love it, so that the wearer will protect it. I imagine in order to control the emotions of the wearer the ring would have to alter the chemical balance of their brain- much like a drug.
@prettyokandy2303 жыл бұрын
i imagine it might be a symbol for fighting during ww1, i imagine you see what you considered to be 'good people' turn into animals, become utterly broken physically and mentally and come to a point where 'i would never do that for any price' is overwritten by thoughts of family, friends, spouse and/ or children, grief for fallen friends or just simply your own life. the ring is that, it's the price you're not willing to pay to maintain what you love. it finds your weakness and exploits that 'for evil'/ sauron, if it finds your weakness it tickles it until it starts to itch, until it starts to burn etc. i imagine ww1 conditions or any fundamentally challenging ordeal are similar in nature, if your weakness gets tickled enough it starts to itch, it starts to burn.. at some point all have their breaking point, too many prices paid to maintain what they care about.
@oremstale85583 жыл бұрын
of course the rings addictive nature is canon- that's the entire reason it can't be willing destroyed
@kekero5407 ай бұрын
one thing i think is important to note is that Deagol grabs the ring after it had fallen and instead of running away turns back to choke Smeagol to death
@FelipeGomes-ek8lf3 жыл бұрын
Great video. Just found your channel. Love the James Acaster vid. Subbed.
@waltermanson9993 жыл бұрын
BRAVO ! Amazing video as always !
@janbaltes28633 жыл бұрын
Thanks for you amazing work :)
@iaincook58353 жыл бұрын
Why didn't the ring force Gollum over the 500 years to return to Mordor or Dol Guldur or Mirkwood to seek out Sauron to return the ring to its owner?
@kbee85172 жыл бұрын
Personally, I see the ring as corrupting and possessive lens of the world around its bearer-what likely drove Smeagol away and into hiding wasn't necessarily (I'd imagine) so much how he was treated, as opposed to how the ring distorted his perception to how he could never be loved. It took a hold of his guilt and amplified it irrationally to where that guilt is the only thing he could ever be hyperfixated on. It took over and addicted him, in a way that brought about isolation (as was its intentions) until the right person came along so it could attempt to go back to its master. Something that I think is strange about one of the changes between Smeagol before and Gollum later on is his tendency to cough and retch, creating a "gollum" sound that he is named after. To me this appears more as a manifestation of the suffering the ring brings on its bearers-it not only causes emotional suffering, but a physical one as well. Similar to how anxiety can have physical manifestations. Truly, it must've been an ugly existence.
@vaiyt3 жыл бұрын
What we need is a supercut of just the Gollum scenes of The Hobbit and LotR in chronological order