Destiny 2 Lore - The Precursors, The Final Shape & The Witness. The Penitent's Answer.

Check out Starforge and grab yourself a new gaming setup today: starforgepc.co... Destiny 2's Lore and Story tells us about The Witness & its creation by The Precursors. The Birth of The Witness at the hands of a group known as The Penitent was the result of an age long struggle to discern The Final Shape & the destruction of all the other opposing groups within Precursor society. Through the logs of two precursors we can examine the process that led them down this dark road.
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[@juliohurtado3524]

"If the choise is between the greater and lesser evil, then the choice itself is flawed." HNW was spittin', ngl.

[@akaWhisp]

This is basically the exact lesson behind the trolly problem.

[@axelkusanagi4139]

The false dichotomy bias.

[@jonnyscoutgames]

something something US election

[@Billabongbabalog]

Everything is spitting to some of yall

[@jlmoodhd7415]

it's all philosophy talk until that choice presented itself in real life.. in the real world, it's a different story entirely.

[@peteraustin9057]

The "glass minds" predicting a great wave is interesting, because both possibilities for what that could be referring to (fundament's God wave or the collapse hitting titan) were directly caused/planted by the witness. Its precursor species (or at least Hemingway and rorschach) were clearly trying to prevent these outcomes but ultimately caused them. The idea of the main villain of DESTINY, where the tag line of "guardians make their own fate" has been around since vanilla d1, falling victim to a self fulfilling prophecy is a really interesting piece of writing if that's what bungie is going for

[@markgallagher577]

What if- and this is taking into account the Vex as Glassminds theory- the Vex caused the witness? Like an Isaac Asimov story where a computer is built to try and reverse entropy, the glassmind is built to predict the final shape, but this mind rationalises that the only way to find it is to survive long enough to be present at its arrival, and so it shows all these precursors images to manipulate them to a path where the vex are freed and develop their time travelling bullshit to give themselves an eternity to fulfill this goal, always building until they become something that can reach the final shape? It’s absolute bullshit but it’s fun to think about.

[@QuillC]

I can't think of a single other time in lore where a pyramid ship is described as a tetrahedron, which got me curious as to the exact definition, and in the wiki entry I noticed the following: "For any tetrahedron there exists a sphere (called the circumsphere) on which all four vertices lie, and another sphere (the insphere) tangent to the tetrahedron's faces." Interesting that the existence of a polyhedron necessitates the existence of a sphere

[@themadwarden6603]

Oh damn bungie are getting clever with their maths Easter eggs

[@AyyFuji]

Oh yeah, so even with the architecture of a pyramid ship, their tetrahedron's require a sphere to existence, like their existence is forever intertwined with the Traveler. OH THAT IS SOME DEEP STUFF AND I LOVE IT

[@guiltyspark3434]

Not to be that guy, but most geometrical figures can be or can be related to either squares and circumferences to help calculus of imaginary numbers and trigonometry. So as cool as it sounds, it’s simply a way to calculate things on a X,Y,Z model, it ain’t unique to the Tetrahedron.

[@blackbelt352-dd]

​@@guiltyspark3434 Tetrahedrons however is unique in that any arbitrary tetrahedron perfectly defines a sphere. Any of the other hedrons cannot arbitrarily define a sphere, for example a cube may fit perfectly within a sphere but if you move one vert it no longer defines the sphere.

[@guiltyspark3434]

@@blackbelt352-dd As i said, it’s tools that we use in mathematics to determine certain aspects of a sphere, it was made done with that purpose, just as the entirety of other geometrical figures that fit inside a sphere. As cool as it sounds, it’s just tools used and a coincidence that Bungie choose that form that so casually happens to fit perfectly on a sphere.

[@KoPT01]

Precursor lore in a nutshell: Part 1: HNW: I like gardening. I hope nothing bad happens to my garden 🙂 Part 2: RS: We should make the universe a better place because suffering is bad. Death of your garden was bad. HNW: but isn't intervening to stop suffering a little too aggressive? Part 3: HNW: I killed all the dissenters and now we will become a hivemind and reset the universe because suffering is bad. Where R U? RS: . . .

[@elitereptilian200]

yeah its like your best friend asking for the newly changed door codes at purge night ffs..

[@TKMuro]

"...that what we will become will be lesser, if it is made without you." the writers at bungie never fail to craft some truly beautiful lines

[@Billabongbabalog]

Really?

[@TheEclipse420]

"I do not want to forget you." It's the emotions captured in the tones you can hear them saying the lines in too. The way Byf delivered them was heavy.

[@jackreynolds5518]

The fact that with the collector’s edition you can hold in your hands a physical copy of the oldest records known in Destiny lore, recovered from a ketch we infiltrated in a random story mission way back in D1, is mind-boggling. The detail, expansiveness and level of immersion in the Destiny universe is beyond impressive. I’ve never experienced anything like it. I’ve played ever since the beta 10 years ago, and honestly it saddens me that so many people will never truly appreciate how rich this story is.

[@throwaway450]

It's the best sci-fi lore in a very long time, it's a crying shame that it's packaged in the most dogshit way humanly possible.

[@xvx_K1r1t0_xvx_killmeee]

​@@throwaway450For the record, the only franchise I know of that could rival it is the Gundam franchise, and some of its packaging is just as bad.

[@PrototypeAlysianKnight]

This. This mind set is why I cant give Destiny up. I love the story. Ive taken year long breaks from Destiny, but I find myself always comin back, because of how rich the story truly is.

[@SonOfDogHeadMan]

Byf apologizing for taking less than a week to record and edit an 80 minute lore video. What a guy.

[@SnowOrShine]

I find it interesting that you didn't delve more into "Hemmingway's" personal journey here, as I found that to be the most narratively intriguing story in this book: They start as an optimistic gardener, seemingly disinterested in the Penitent's philosophical debates. But they turn to outrage that someone would destroy their planetary work without apparent meaning. This has major parallels with Asha's cutscene, where the Precursors felt that the [Gardener/Traveller]'s creation is too chaotic, and they grow frustrated at their lack of control, turning to the Darkness My take is that "Hemmingway" turned to politics after their garden was destroyed, and they clearly were someone pushing the Penitent towards their final extremes. The Penitent were evidently lacking direction, from "Rorschach's" messages, and a loud passionate new voice can make a big difference in a debate. "Rorschach" seemed to be very against such means, and the Penitent are still conflated with [Merciful/Benefic] in the second exchange. They seem to only have turned fully to winnowing some time after "Hemingway" joined their ranks For me, the Witness is an embodiment of frustration at a universe that builds and destroys without purpose. It doesn't know what the answer is, what the Final Shape is, and according to these documents it is growing increasingly less curious and more angry at that fact A wraith of the anger a gardener feels at someone crushing their flowers for seemingly no reason, still trying to create a world in which that can never happen again

[@aistikasmursu9432]

My take on the witness is that, its a self-contradicting creature that at the same time, love's and hate's the traveller for the traveller is its meaning for its existence, but it despises everything the traveller touches, kind of like an obsessive ex it feels that it, and by extension the precursors are the only ones deserving of the traveller's gifts as they think they're the only ones who know how to use it, whilst acknowledging that the traveller actively rejected their actions, so I don't think the witness could ever truly come to understand what the final shape is, but it just understands that to bring whatever it is about it needs the traveller.

[@ethandixon6104]

I just read through this and now I *have* to get a hand on that text myself. You have a really interesting and thought-out take on this, and I really love it. Especially the somewhat tragic nature you speak of. I don’t think it’s entirely accurate given what we know now, but for that ‘portion’ of the witness I think the idea fits perfectly. Either way, I love the idea, and it fits very well with Destiny’s tendency to make relatable/tragic villains at certain points. Even if it ain’t true, it’ll stick in my headcanon

[@spacejunk8978]

Bungies lore writers deserve a massive raise theyll never get. Theyre basically the only reason i play

[@psychopomp1940]

I haven't played since witch queen but still keep up with the lore

[@DemonCipher13]

Also, i cant believe that the Eye from the Vex Gate Lord gave us THAT. Amazing.

[@GiveMeTheRice]

didn’t he say it was specifically recovered on a trip uldren himself took into the black garden and not our guardian or did i mishear? last i remember, we kept that eye to open the door

[@davidflw6]

It’s crazy how precursors had the same three main factions the tower had Nihilist = Dead Orbit Swarm = FWC Conquerers = New Monarchy

[@Midnaighte]

And they were all wiped out

[@gv584]

Vanguard = Penitent ?

[@Midnaighte]

@gv584 Hell no. We are better than The Penitent because we actually help other races and invite them into the city instead of believing we can do it all ourselves.

[@ZedoBlack]

​@@Midnaightethat doesn't mean we aren't the Penitent, it just leans we made the correct choice and they didn't.

[@glitchyfox8706]

Question. Why did the traveler stay with humanity and make ghosts? Would hive ghosts exist if the traveler had not gone to humanity before savathun got her ghost? What else about humanity mirrors the precursers? Is there a reason for this? My guess is perhaps humaity is a new version or decendents of the percursers.Perhaps some of those in their inner circles did not agree completly so sent out a secret ship or pod to let their specise continue even if their plans go wrong

[@boysenbeary]

80 minute lore video. Tonight we feast.

[@dmark_]

long byf vids + snacks/dinner = bliss

[@AlejandroKirkisObese]

It's actually 1 hour and 20 minutes

[@mikereynolds741]

​@AlejandroKirkisObese which is equal to 80 minutes...😂

[@AlejandroKirkisObese]

@mikereynolds741 I don't know what you're trying to get but I didn't even read your reply I don't have 1 hour and 20 minutes to do so

[@EncoreBesti]

​@@AlejandroKirkisObese lol a relpy from someone like u who is wrong but won't ddnie it

[@cunaksoy]

What if RS, "Rorschach", is the entity inside the Traveler all this time? We still don't know too much about the collapse. In all other cases the Traveler fled when the Witness caught up, but with humanity it decided to stay and created the Ghosts. Ghosts always fascinated me because they are essentially tiny consciousnesses, which we learn to be a Darkness thing normally. What if during our collapse Rorschach went into the Traveller, pushed away the black fleet and reverse-Witness himself and divided his own consciousness into many many pieces to form the Ghosts to help humanity at an "individual" level. Maybe that is his way of the final shape now. We know he rejected the Consensus. He maybe all for devotion, bravery and sacrifice of individuals rather than a singular consensus. Final Shape trailers shows our Ghost speaking about how he knows his true purpose now. Maybe that is because Ghosts have finally returned to the source, to Rorchach. We all remember the concept Destiny Traveler cutscene where a feminine figure greeted the first team that found the Traveller. Maybe Rorschach is the new version of that idea?

[@YANASaysHi]

have waited almost a decade for this lore.

[@markymark3449]

Wake up babe, Byf dropped the 80 minute Precursor video.

[@AlejandroKirkisObese]

It's actually 1 hour and 20 minutes

[@surprizeforyou]

​@AlejandroKirkisObese that's literally the same thing. Lol

[@AlejandroKirkisObese]

@@surprizeforyou whatever you say

[@russellallen1006]

@@AlejandroKirkisObese1 Hour = 60 minutes. Video is 1HR and 20 minutes long. 60 + 20 Is 80. Video is 80 minutes long = Video is 1hr and 20 minutes long. 🤡

[@romabg5136]

um actually it's 4830 seconds...

[@Silencersix]

I like how the community predicted the name “Precursors” before anyone actually said it in the game or lore.

[@theshamanofguns4391]

You have to remember that a number of the Halo crowd came over to Destiny when it was first teased by Bungie. Precursors (not the same as destiny Precursors) are also an established race/term there as well. It’s not too surprising that term came back up as another descriptor for yet another ancient race.

[@Lynch2507]

I can think of like, 3 or 4 separate franchises that use "Precursors" or something to that effect (The Ancients, the Builders, etc etc).

[@PunknPixels]

It's almost like Bungie is extremely uncreative in naming things

[@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong]

@@theshamanofguns4391 to be fair, there's only so many words for "the guys who used to be here"

[@caufield88uk]

Cause they were also the started race that started all of Halo. So they've just reused the name and the concept. Bungie are good at reusing stuff youknow

[@DemonCipher13]

Wow, what a ride. It needs to be said, whoever the lorewriters are are absolutely incredible. This sort of stuff only comes from someone with great depth. It's more than logical connection, you have to feel some of this, to make it so...viscerally. Wow.

[@zperk13]

I hope Rorschach is alive, the lore from that would be incredible

[@-uncontested-8448]

The witness even says "my friend" as he's cutting into the traveler

[@JutoCrocell]

HNW finally facing his old friend and we will help the only good precursor to win against his people who made the wrong choice

[@GiveMeTheRice]

@@JutoCrocell “only good precursor” is a bit of a wild statement when talking about a precursor that seemed to be involved in the destruction in what can be assumed is a pretty large chunk of its own race

[@RipDippler]

​@JutoCrocell "the only good precursor" >abandoned the Eliksni >Attempted to abandon humanity in the golden age >only created ghosts to help humanity out of necessity to secure its survival >Made the hive lightbearers seemingly out of desperation again for it's own survival >Kinda just taking a nap in the sky >most likely intended to cut and run again when captured by the witness The Traveler has never been a good guy, it's just a cornered animal using anything at it's disposal to survive.

[@GiveMeTheRice]

@@RipDippler i don’t think he was talking about the traveler, man

[@RipDippler]

@GiveMeTheRice yeah that's on me, I'm leaving the comment there as a mark of my dumbness. And a mark of my hatred for the traveler >:(

[@mrsmi1ey]

Man... Bungie universe and lore creation for their games - all of them, not just Destiny - is easily the best out there. I didn't think anything could get better than the wild expanded Halo universe, but Destiny really takes the cake. I never thought I would be so engaged in a video as long as this one, but I was absolutely glued to it!

[@Noblesix84]

Hour and a half of Byf and Destiny lore? Let's go.

[@AlejandroKirkisObese]

It's actually 80 minutes

[@Austin-fl7zr]

And he still said it was a “short video” 😅😅

[@XxBazicxX]

Few things that could make Final Shape amazing: - A cutscene of the Witness being created. Make it horribly eerie, as we know many of the precursors were scared about doubtful about this choice - Make the story of The Final Shape one of heroism. There are a lot of lost souls binded into the Witness. Children, adults and so many others. We should either save them by ending the Witness or by somehow freeing them. The story needs to hit emotionally if this is gonna be considered a success imo

[@ArturAzraqard]

No. Bungie is all emotional since the last couple dlcs. Its not good. We just need a good deep story/ plot. Thats all. I dont want no story and dlc for a little crybaby.

[@Nadiki]

@@ArturAzraqardthere’s crappy emotional and there’s good emotional. You can have a good story that makes you feel things, and I’d argue a good story _should_ make you feel things. Lightfall was bad at it, Forsaken and Red War were excellent at it.

[@monadoboy9639]

Yes Bungie needs to stop playing with needless rubbish like the Veil and tell us first hand everything that happened We need to know what the traveller is We need to see the witnesses perspective and what it wants why it's doing all of this We need a deep engaging story perhaps with an antithesis of the witness and actual personification of the traveller and the conflict it has maybe it shows us what the Final shape is and why it is flawed And I don't know what will happen in the end but I hope it genuinely angers the witness and leads to one of the COOLEST raid boss fights in history

[@thorinhannahs4614]

I just want to see the final shape.

[@monadoboy9639]

@@thorinhannahs4614 I mean I doubt we will see it "the final shape" is essentially the universe frozen or even no universe like I don't even think we can comprehend what it is perhaps we will see a glimpse of what the final shape is or it will be part of the raid mechanic but I doubt we will see it enacted I think we will seperate the witness and create a conflict within him much like how not all of the precursors agreed with the penitent faction to become the witness Reguardless I'm excited to see what kind of story that they tell

[@kade-6940]

I'm gonna be 100% honest here, I can't think of the witness's creation without seeing the Anti-Spiral from Gurren Lagann lol. Either way, both are dope af, and I love the lore writers and your chronicling of it. You actually got me into the lore when I was young Byf, with your Dredgen Yor and Shin Malphur recollection. What a ride guys. I can't believe I started this game way back when I was like 8 with the D1 beta lol. Now I'm like, a grown man technically. Wtf lol.

[@darksamiri4304]

I listened to this while trying to sleep. My dreams were CRAZY

[@Isaaciscrazy123]

1:07:22..."that what we will become will be lesser; if it is made without you." I've poured through the books to see if there's an indication RS left in the same timescale as when the Traveller/ Gardener left. I can't shake the feeling RS hitched a ride. That despite the billions of years that's passed, RS will have existed within the traveller, always on the run from the Witness. That the Witness needs to subsume RS in order to reach perfection/ the Final Shape....and that RS could be the figure in D1's pre-viz art that originally was planned to appear to the crew of the Ares when humanity made first contact with the traveller on Mars. Guess we'll find out in a few months time!

[@BoisegangGaming]

The Glass Minds being related to the Vex is... interesting? Especially since we see the Sol Primeval/Precursor Vex being extremely advanced looking and, well, glassy. Atheon may have been one of these Glass Minds, or at least the closest the Vex could create without the Precursors' help. There's also the [Summit/Pyramidion/Final Shape] thing. The only time we've seen that word before is the Pyramidion on Io, which appears to link multiple places at once- perhaps this is the Observatory and why the Vex wanted to keep the Witness out. There's also the "Glassway", which connects an ancient Vex Forge Star to Europa, and Vex radiolaria and the Darkness were instrumental to the creation of the Exos and their mind transfer process- something akin to the creation of the Witness.

[@axelkusanagi4139]

I wonder if the Vex have been mutated/corrupted/fused by some Veil experiment, and OXA may be pure glassmind pre-Vex.

[@vV_Viggo]

Woah This might be a total reach, but I am identifying a parallel between the Precursor Factions and the Worm Gods of the Hive……… Eir (Keeper of Order) - Penitent Yul (The Honest Worm) - Nihilists Ur (The Ever Hunger) - Solipsists Xol (Will of the Thousands) - Swarm Akka (Keeper of Secrets) - Conquerors

[@jamezzz0035]

i thinl you're onto something...

[@SymbioteMullet]

Each faction also works as an inversion/mirror of each race that is "of the darkness" Penitent - the Taken Nihilists - the Hive Solipsisists - the Vex Swarm - the Fallen Conquerers - the Cabal Layers within layers. I really like worms idea though. Where do Xita and Ahsa fit?

[@johngancarcik5682]

I can see where your coming from and I agree

[@vV_Viggo]

@@SymbioteMullet I was mostly going off of the books of sorrow, so until just now I didn’t have an answer for you. There’s not a lot of lore to go off to know what Xita and Ahsa would parallel in terms of their names, epithets, or personal ideals. But after thinking about it a while, they could be separate from the other worms the same way Hemmingway and Rorshach are separate from the actual factions of the Consensus. Hemmingway and Xita abandoned their old selves for survival, whereas Rorshach and Ahsa both exiled themselves from their homes to escape assimilation.

[@SymbioteMullet]

@@vV_Viggo IT FIIIIIITS!!!!

[@Invaderbob7]

Also with all my heart I don't think nearly as many guardians would be as invested in Destiny without Byf and his lore breakdowns. He's living proof that extrapolating and digesting all of the lore destiny has set up is quite literally a full-time job; as such I think the player count would have never recovered without him

[@OptemusPr1meXBox]

Dude this was phenomenal!! The length was not a problem. The breakdown of Hemingway and Rorschach was incredible.

[@Herobuilder21]

you said "time before time" and my bionicle brain lit up

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

oooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaa~

[@dynojackal1911]

Me too.

[@SelecaoOfMidas]

*'Move Along' blares in the background*

[@scrawnyclownsnatch9656]

For the "Glass minds" I don't take this as the Precursors created them, but more the Vex were a separate party/entity that, just by existing and doing what they do, just so happened to help the precursors Observetory become more accurate. Additionally, given the Vex exists outside of time, if they're origin was the Precursors, they would also exist before the Precursors created them and now we have a paradox.

[@tumarocks]

Yea I agree

[@tumarocks]

Yea I agree it could be literal glass minds as in mirrors that predict the future (highly doubt it lol just a hunch). I agree that is the vex mind most likely from the Vault of glass that is helping them for whatever reason simulate or predict the future

[@MrPennyBags]

Bungie's ability to create entire Universes and fill them with life is mind boggling... both Halo and Destiny are so rich with lore that i cant get enough of it.

[@DragonaxFilms]

Wait, the Precursors? I haven't heard that name since Halo's lore. _The Bungie Cinematic Universe lives on._

[@Miss_Trillium]

As soon as I heard precursors I perked up To be honest this is my first Byf video in years, as I haven't played destiny since The Red Keep (or whatever), but I got nostalgic for seeing a video pop up in my feed

[@TheParadoxGamer1]

What interests me more is that theres a lot of echoes of bungies version of Halo’s lore, as 343 definitely changed a lot of it, as well as echoes to the original Marathon trilogy. Its interesting seeing these characteristics.

[@My0ldFr13nd]

You know 'precursor' is a normal word that has been in english long before destiny or halo, right?

[@TheParadoxGamer1]

@@My0ldFr13nd well duh, but the reason we freak out about this stuff is because whenever Bungie does this kind of stuff it tends to implore us as an audience to look at their work before to see for more connections to the current plot. They did this with the Egregore, the Ecumene, and now here. They even did it when they revealed Destiny to the world! Theres a reason people freaked out when it was revealed, minus the whole new bungie game thing, because at the end of Marathon Infinity Durandal calls US the players *Destiny*. So yes, we know it was a word before, but we also care about what that word connects to.

[@JM1992]

@@Miss_TrilliumI love that you combine the red war(base destiny 2) and shadowkeep expansion lol

[@ahmedalaoui9885]

This is a fascinating philosophical debate and the idea of the precursors eliminating their opposition in order to achieve a consensus is such an interesting contradiction

[@sabre013]

Late to the party, but I imagine this flawed consensus that created the witness will be a core aspect of how we fight it. By showing it, or parts of the group that made it, the flaws in their concepts or consensus, we can create a window of opportunity to damage it physically. I imagine it similarly to the Philosopher’s stones in Fullmetal Alchemist, allowing us to commune or influence the souls within and enact change.

[@TheLorePerson07]

Just got my collectors edition, messing around rn with the tower and watching the Lore daddy, the perfect day

[@mystikad3]

an hour and 20 minutes of precursor lore is fucking sick. I'm so excited to watch this through. You're a legend as always Byf! 💙

[@milkompoukalo]

Interesting.. in my language(Greek) entelechy -=> enetelexeia means “constant and uninterrupted care or diligence” or “the continuation, the duration”. With a little search I found this was a word made by Aristotle but the full etymology of the word is kind of a challenge. I guess I will stay in what we know about it and I think they used in the lore book considering the care and diligence meaning. Thank you for your videos, I always come here for lore and theory!

[@greenfrogonspeed8169]

I love your Lore videos. I always tried to piece things together myself and then come to your channel to get more context. Even now, after dropping Destiny (missed content of 3 seasons after Witch Queen and never bothered to go back to a game that expects me to pay so much and then sunset Story after 3 Months) I still always come back to your channel to learn more and keep up with the story. Kind of like you are an audiobook, I guess. So thank you kindly for all the work you put for us.

[@sebastian.c7222]

So the plot of the witness is that the precursors lived for too long and had way too much free time to over think everything

[@ac4th371]

Finally some more Ancient secrets and deep world building lore. This is why I love this game and why I'm so glad I found your channel all those years ago. Great work again, very much looking forward to your next vid.

[@Jager_Leitwolf24]

Byf.....what if "The NINE" are actually ones who escaped from the Witness's purge? They have a greater understanding of everything going on and know the outcome, but they aren't doing anything to stop it. They are a complete mystery to us, but what if they are revealed to be the Witness's antithesis? I'm seeing alot of parallels of the NINE and the other factions of the Precursors. I could be grasping at strings, but it sorta makes sense.

[@FierceFire14]

I feel like the nine aren't really used to our universe though, seeing as they were trying to create/send life through the portal/wormhole

[@ShaoShaoMienshao]

This makes sense when you consider it was the Nine who saw fit to give us a Prophecy about Light and Darkness; about how they're sorta helping us, vaguely, yet not guiding us by the hand. It fits a bit of the Nihilist philosophy, but with their hands-off approach pushed to the limits by The Witness.

[@dankblissey6162]

I believe the nine were already confirmed years ago to be formed from dark matter that became conscious due to many gravity waves of complex life in the solar system.

[@Transfigurated]

Thank you Byf for putting this out. I had teeth extracted from my skull yesterday and watching this is giving me some comfort.

[@monadoboy9639]

I gotta love how you gave them the most British sounding Names Hemmingway and Rorscach

[@barthotymous]

I have to say, I LOVE the names Hemmingway and Rorschach! They excellently convey the idea of actually being 'people' (compared to code), but the names also give that sense of complexity that I think fits the Precursors (compared to something like Henry and Ross)

[@Spawnofgolden]

As a fellow delivery driver who is constantly on the road we thank you for your time, effort and constant joy you bring us when you drop these banger videos❤

[@yamaYEET0]

"The existence of past evil does not invalidate future good"

[@maximusdankimus5352]

I think the part about the atmosphere being burned away isn’t about a specific event in destiny’s history/lore rather an observation on the fact that many of the planets they seeded with life resorted to nuclear war with themselves and the part about not wanting to share their atmosphere with their neighbours is a metaphor for not sharing resources, which fits the whole strongest must survive idea

[@driumissimo]

I feel like we should be talking more about how in Lightfall, the main complaint Bungie got is how much of the story isn't in the game, and they promised to do better. And now we get huge story drops... in a very very expensive book available only to collectors.

[@trashjash]

Right? Imagine if we discovered this by uncovering records from within Pyramids and artifacts we've encountered since Shadowkeep, bit by bit. Little fragments of knowledge about some ancient alien race, then here at the end get much bigger lore drops that clarify what our enemy really is.

[@poplthemaidensrevengetmr3573]

@@trashjashthan*

[@poplthemaidensrevengetmr3573]

Sorry

[@impossibleegg3689]

If we don't get major and minor lore drops while exploring the Traveler, it'll be sad. Who knows if they had time to plan that though

[@samspin429]

Since the beginning of D2, Bungie have always had really big lorebooks in the collector's editions. They contain some of my favorite lore but are generally tangential/supplemental to the story. The lore of the precursors will likely not be immediately relevant during the campaign as it mostly serves to expand the Witness' character without pertaining directly to its plans. I don't think it is possible to put this type of lore in the game. I think it is too long-form to be split up into different entries without losing cohesion and similarly cannot be conveyed in dialog or a cutscene unless it becomes directly relevant. If the collector's editions did not exist this lore would not either.

[@goosemanVEVO]

The final shape is 2008 youtube. The Witness wants to bring back lolcats.

[@swiperr3652]

I knew it.

[@PREGAMEDISCHARGEENJOYER]

ChrisChan, Disciple of the witness.

[@goosemanVEVO]

@@PREGAMEDISCHARGEENJOYER Lmao!

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

one of the raid mechanics will involve using keyboard cat to play the witness off

[@vykyr]

Only like 13 minutes in, but reminds me of FFXIV, with the Convocation of Fourteen and those unsundered. Neat. :3

[@bassmasseiceklang9351]

@MynameisByf Bungie should give you a medal and reward you royally. I think without your videos I would have quit over a year ago. but you always manage to ignite curiosity and passion for the new content - you good Loredaddy you.

[@forgottentenno]

I'M SO CLOSE TO BEING CAUGHT UP TO THIS PLAYLIST. THIS IS ALL I'M BEEN LISTENING TO FOR THREE MONTHS!!!

[@Hotelsonfire]

I absolutely love the idea of The Witnesses downfall being the fact that it was built upon a lie, as you pointed out Savathǔn’s downfall was. I hope that it’s pursued in a different fashion, almost forcing us to extract those who ultimately dissented from the mass that makes up The Witness, and then in turn dismantling the witness evermore, until we’re able to actually fight and defeat the shadowy mass.

[@alasdairbell4354]

Pulling the 'ancient aliens' trope in a post Mass Effect 3 world is CRAZY. That was tye Avengers Endgame of ancient aliens, Bioware was like "every race of ancient aliens you could possibly imagine has been reduced to biomass to make the ACTUAL bbeg"

[@DancingViru]

RS might as well have been the progenitor to the Psions! Hints: RS put lots of trust into their people's "Observatory". Psions seem to be named after their psionic capabilities, & esp. their spiritual belief of the afterlife (lore book from Opulence regarding the Psion "Match") mirrors what lead to the merging of the Consensus, & they've had the OXA machine. Speaking of the Observatory; what the Precursors saw in it definitely became a self-fulfilling prophecy upon merging into the Witness, esp. if you had 1 of them wondering if all of the observed fates are considered part of the "final shape", so the "great wave" part was DEFINITELY a reference to the Fundament (speaking of, we still don't know about the proto-Hive's og homeworld). The "glass-minds" being explained separately from the observed "machine-plague infesting moons with prediction engines" is a good hint at how to parallel this book with Unveiling: The glass minds were likely a Golden Age AI tech of the Precursor, that then went rampant & became the Vex. What's eerie is the similarities between how the Vex as a species are structured vs how the consciousness of the Witness came to be. I desperately want to know what it was that HNW brought to their found system along side the planned panacea progenitor materials. Because I find it curious, that in all that terraforming vocabulary, there was no mention of tree(s) of Silver Wings! was also wondering how similar a multi-being of a merged consciousness without a body would be to the Nine...

[@O_Tarnished_Ours]

Don't worry of time Byf. Cook. We will be patient, this video was well worth the wait👌

[@kennethblocher6110]

I just wanted to show my appreciation for the content, the effort it took to create it and how you've been putting yourself out there with your voice acting lately. Well done!

[@inquisitorichijou883]

It is lore like this that I love. To go back to an almost primordial age of a story.

[@tommydixon4871]

this change everything about the precursors the final shape and the witness 100% amazing lore video byf

[@DonatelloEsq]

Boiling the atmosphere seemed to suggest our own history of nuclear warfare.

[@XionWillow]

Or human-caused climate change

[@Alahmnat]

That's where my mind went as well, given the fears about igniting the entire atmosphere first inherent in early nuclear bomb development. Though I also don't think that the visions of terrible outcomes presented by the Observatory are necessarily all references to other things we know about in Destiny lore; lots of civilizations even just on Earth have been swallowed by floods, or destroyed from within. While some of what's predicted is more specific, lots of these things would presumably play out countless times throughout the long future of the universe - an outcome the scale of which might have motivated the Precursors to seek the final shape as a preventative measure in the way that the Witness has.

[@Avan21907]

Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the lore of earth before the arrival of the traveler was that of overpopulation and catastrophic climate change? It could’ve been that, but it could honestly refer to any civilization across the stars

[@elizabethhicks4181]

@@Avan21907 destiny is a big Alternate Universe. The Traveler arrived in 2014, the year D1 released, and sometime in 2015 or 16 the mission to Mars to see it happened. It’s kind of hard to say what Humanity’s future would have been, because the main conceit of the game is about things being a bit fucked up in 2014, and the Traveler’s arrival launching us into a golden age of cooperation

[@jelanijackson3247]

This makes total sense as to why the travel would go to a place and then leave after a while. If it feels that those after the precursor can then become like them, it leaves to find another civilization hoping for a different result.

[@ToastyBits]

Wake up everyone! 80 minute Byf lore video just dropped.

[@robc4495]

I'm late. Still going? I have chips.

[@AlejandroKirkisObese]

It's 1 hour and 20 minutes ffs

[@greenyoshi2859]

Byf, I know quite a few players who are coming back from destiny 1 who want to understand what is going on in destiny right now. I know this is a big ask but can we get a lore sum up of d2 and the characters relevant to the plot right now for those players, I'm sure that it would be vital to them for understanding things like the crow and the veil or even the witness. I love you and your content it really helps me understand destinys lore and I've been watching since the taken king to understand the books of sorrow and I want other players to pick up both your amazing content and destiny's lore like I have 🖤

[@adamlandry1786]

There is something so soothing about hearing Byf’s voice on the larger lore videos. And this one was amazing!

[@DJFusioncell]

Plot twist, the self exiled precurser left, found a little planet after some time, fostered a new species and helped it flourish called humans, disguised itself as one of them, died during the collapse and they're our guardian :D

[@TALONOFRAZGRIZ]

I like the idea, but for people whose characters are Awoken or Exo, I'm not sure that would work necessarily. However, if we take your idea and say it was some other human character, we could run wild like, say with the idea of a certain human character that was this precursor exile turned guardian of great power skill and intellect known as oh maybe........... Osiris, now that's also an interesting theory/plot twist. (Unless there is lore on Osiris's origin out there that I'm not aware of, of course.)

[@DJFusioncell]

Just the general idea makes my brain play with the happy chemicals. We did see that the Elikni were able to go through the transition to being an exo, so it is at least possible to maybe shoehorn it in... As for the awoken it is a bit more of a slippery slope. To the lore's credit though the precursor was supposed to be a physician? Or were they the gardener one? If the physician then they could have just made themselves human somehow. Were talking about a civilization that had the traveler and advanced tech for a really long time.

[@Raze394]

That's wild

[@mystikad3]

that would be a fucking insane plot twist my god

[@MichaelAppleman]

@@TALONOFRAZGRIZ Awoken and Exo both started off as normal humans.

[@maxcrss2845]

There is one thing that scares me about the witness, and that’s if “we” becomes “me”. Final unification, erasing all the remaining individuality and having the leader of the consensus, the individual who decided on this course of action, being the only witness.

[@gregthesovereign7525]

Well, time to grab some popcorn and learn some lore under a blanket ❤

[@illuminati1618]

How cool would it have been to have a season where we travel with Eido to collect this knowledge and learn this all in game? Such amazing lore.

This lore manages to make the Witness a complex and compelling character, which was sorely needed. I just hope they manage to convey this in-game somehow, otherwise most players will never get it…

[@itsthatmitch]

Sweet Lordy lore daddy Christmas came early and so have I. This is a treat 😩

[@LuvU2x]

Haven’t played Destiny in years at this point, but still get excited for Byf drops.

[@3oo3oo08]

Thanks lord daddy, love all the lore if the precursors.

[@EclipticBlade]

I suspect the prediction of "People who would boil off their own atmosphere" as mentioned around 56:10 may actually reflect real world history. During the development of the atomic bomb there was a fear among some of those involved that the detonation of such a bomb could cause an ignition of our atmosphere itself. There were calculations being done to determine if this would happen or not but before any conclusion could be reached the US moved forward on detonating one in a test.

[@BigHeadLilDude]

Byf don’t apologize when you’re cooking, we all know you’re content gonna be good! Especially since this is a movie; just drop on it the table, and watch us get our fill.

[@markricheard1870]

Something incredibly interesting I’ve noticed is several aspects of Destinys Lore very clearly being inspired by 343’s Halo Lore. The aply named ancient species “Precursors” are not the start of this. The D1 Book of Sorrow described a powerful space Empire known as the “Ecumene” the exact same name 343 chose as the official name of the Forerunners Empire. Even more so with the Destinys mention of utilizing machines/warriors known as “War Angels” which sounds very similar to the Forerunners “War Sphynx” Mechs. And I suppose you could even see the etherial mysterious realm described by Destinys Ecumene known as their “Habitable World” similar to the Forerunners vault of cosmic knowledge “The Domain” And most recently, we have the Precursors, a powerful species who feel betrayed and fused their dead minds and flesh into a single, corrupting organism bent on destroying the works of its traitor. You could even see the Cloudstriders as similar to the Spartan-4’s. Augmented heroes taken from the citizenry itself and still capable of interacting and relating to them. With Guardians more familiar to Spartan-2’s. Distant, brainwashed soldiers always physically and mentally separated from their people. I think 343 would be very flattered to know some writers in modern Bungie still think of them!

[@Wormy_fren]

Actually most of these concepts were introduced by Bungie while they were working on Halo. It's just that 343 was the one to expand on those ideas.

[@LateNightHalo]

Mark, these are extremely generic sci if tropes, terms and names. Precursor, ecumene, War (insert name here for sci if vehicle of war) And saying bungie were inspired by spartan 4’s when making those cloudstrider things is a HUGE, INSANE stretch. Conclusively saying that’s what inspired bungie is sorta silly. I’d sooner believe that the silver surfer inspired them than I would spartan 4s I think you’re assuming bungie were inspired by 343 when in reality-halo and destiny share DNA and will naturally land on similar concepts and names for those concepts due to the style of sci if that halo and destiny are.

[@markricheard1870]

@@LateNightHalo why are you stalking comments 4 months old? Also 343 Forerunners are more interesting and definitely more developed now

[@spacegypsy2757]

Thank you for taking the time to make such a wonderful and in-depth video.

[@Lividmango]

Got here faster than when her parents weren't home

[@maxstavens217]

True that

[@twilso12]

“My name is Chris Hanson”

[@kirittv]

Ayo

[@zigzag2370]

Ahhh so what you're saying is that you came faster than her parents weren't home🤔

[@KingPellinore]

You always come this fast?

[@KittMcKay]

i'm only about ten minutes in, but so far the Precursors and their factions sounds much like how the Forerunners are portrayed in the Forerunner saga books, which, i suppose, makes sense - both are Bungie universes

[@darkstrider1270]

u got to be impressed by destinys story\lore, its so good! keep it coming byf :D

[@TheFaceofPains]

Could be the hours upon hours of audio series Ive consumed but the Precursors and The Time Lords would have a great long never endings debate about intervention.

[@maonyghtstorm8602]

"A place where even the bacteria are dead" sounds rather like any location the Deathsinger Chorus had been deployed.

[@VoreoSabrae]

I really like the idea of another precursor in addtion to the witness being still alive.

[@Rickjmt]

This was a fantastic video! 👏 Bravo Byf! Loved every minute

[@chrisreilly1290]

These messages back and forth reminds me of the messages sent back and forth between the Librarian and the Didact in Halo 3

[@RuiNDieM1988]

The possibility that the Precursors likely created the Vex accidentally or on purpose is mind-blowing

[@dex53207]

hearing Byf say emumene wrong and realize how it's actually said made me love being a Halo lore fan. Thanks for an immersive video sir!

[@robertdewolfe1654]

Thoroughly enjoyed this (as per usual). I was waiting for this video knowing the collector's edition would have lots of juice for us. ❤❤❤

[@dougie6610]

When you said hemmingway and Rorschach kinda fits with the watchers as through out the film the reference a light that was given you have abandoned it

[@Reksrat]

God I love these hour long videos. You did an amazing job and have made the first half of my shift go by so fast

[@digitalephemera]

Top notch work as always sir! Loved the longer form video a lot!

[@khora3845]

The Witness is really just seeming like the Human Instrumentality Project

[@BaDNeWsPaNdA1]

Definitely don't mind the wait for this, SCRUMPTIOUS looking dive into the lore. Thanks Byf ❤

[@danielduffee2279]

So excited to have gotten my CE today and being able to read these myself.

[@justcallmeness]

I got mine today, too!!!

[@Guardian_D]

Hate the fact that this lore was tide to a limited edition. But thanks to lore masters like yourself listening to this was tent amount to seeing is in video form using my imagination, I truly wish that Bungie had given this a visual version or something of the like. Your reading of it was just as good even if I was the one filling in its imagery in my mind. Thank you for what you provide were Bungie seems to falter at times. I truly appreciate your efforts.❤😊

[@cee_ves]

now I really want a gardening chapter where we meet RS and start to terraform the planets again Though they would probably think us barbaric using the lights gifts to murder their computers

[@haloplayer439]

I’m here for a treat 80 min byf video excellent yes I’m so Grateful for this service im always loving the vids I just wish bungie ain’t retconned and make up random story details within a year to try and forcibly connect things they messed up on but byf is my savior

[@colterhall2172]

Based on the reference to "machine plagues carving their prediction engines into moons" I'm personally assuming that the glass minds are either a precursor attempt to imitate the Vex or possibly a "domesticated" variant of the Vex that the precursor race were utilizing. We are talking about the most ancient and technologically advanced race in destiny after all, and if anyone could manage to either imitate or domesticate the Vex it would be the Precursors.

[@atsukana1704]

Can we stop and appreciate the fact that likely much of this also had to be translated by Eido? She may have translated texts from a dead language used only by the witness itself and these logs. That is wild.

[@TwisTeeaa]

I love listening to these while I’m grinding destiny ranks and mats