Myst v Riven: What Do you Take With You?

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In light of my talking about Myst for almost an hour a few months back I decided to follow it up with a discussion of how it and its sequel, Riven differ from each other in various ways. The two have always been intrinsically linked to each other in story and play though there is so much that sets them apart I say they are drastically different. It's the details and the design that make them what they are so I thought I should talk about the rift that joins the two games together in this little series on first person puzzle games I seem to be doing.
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[@simonm.1122]

Nothing controversial about your assertion that Riven is Cyan's true masterpiece. And yes, Riven is only two puzzles. Absolute genius the way those two puzzles are in opposition to each other, and the way their clues are spread throughout the landscape of the game. The rules of the puzzles are for the player to discern without any hand-holding.

[@zenithquasar9623]

Riven is pretty amazing, yes. But I think it can get pretty frustrating because it is easy to miss details you are required to see or understand, due to the old tech it was built on. But as a world, and walking simulator, it is brilliant.

[@ashleykingston1980]

I agree that Riven is the absolute masterpiece. I love Myst but he atmosphere and sheer magnificence of Riven is breathtaking. Fantastic journalistic review.

[@MoietyVR]

An absolute masterpiece that had an impression on me that no other game has been able to match.

[@tronam]

With all due respect to Myst, which was groundbreaking for its time and captured my attention for countless hours, Riven was the full expression of Cyan’s talents.

[@JordanRogers85]

You won’t get any arguments from me on Riven’s excellence. Loved the video, always great to see Myst content!

[@johnberkley6942]

An excellent analysis. One thing that increased Riven's allure for me: with solutions to a few fairly straightforward moves you got to explore a lot of the world. But to actually SOLVE the crucial bits, let alone understand what you were aiming for, that's what made Riven a maddening, wondrous experience.

[@thenothing2786]

Riven is absolutely cyans masterpiece. It is deeply embedded in my psyche… and I’ve never even played it for more than 30 mins. I had very little friends when I was 12-13 and I was homeschooled. So the only thing to do with my free time was to sit and watch my brother play this for hours, listen to the soundtrack alone in my ‘homeschool classroom’ (my bedroom), while working on my schoolwork, then I would lay in the grass in my backyard and imagine a fissure opening up and taking me to strange beautiful worlds. Even though I barely ever played this game, it inspired most of my creative endeavors, including the book I am working on right now.

[@cher8644]

Nothing in gaming compares. Cyan is a religion and Riven is our temple. The remake is coming. Amen.

[@pocoapoco2]

I appreciate that there was no juvenile, sophmoric or comedic details thrown in, even sparsely, to try and broaden the appeal to more players. The tone was serious start to finnish, and the acting was largely at least ok. I'd suggest to anyone playing this for the first time to do so with a good quality audio system, not just PC or desktop speakers as the ambient sounds and the music are quite well done and add a lot of realism to the game.

[@jeanlundi2141]

I consider myself a Riven fan before being a Myst fan. Riven was IT. My 12 year old self naively believed back then it would spur a lot of creativity in terms of world building in videogames. I never finished Riven on my own. i'm not ashamed of it. Some of us get more of a kick of getting a super hard puzzle solved, than others. It was too difficult for my young self. And even now, I don't think I'd have the patience to figure the marble puzzle out on my own. But it doesn't matter, because what I loved about it was the world itself.

[@Lia-A-Eastwood]

Riven was my first Cyan game when it was released in 1997. My absolute favourite. Still got my Indy-adventurer-style note book with coloured codes and drawings of the puzzles. My little treasure.

[@jasonblalock4429]

Absolutely agree about Riven being about as perfect as a game can get, in terms of being an expression of the authors' underlying goals. My only real complaint about it is that - as you touch on - it's so easy to become disconnected from the game world or simply lose the thread of the plot. If someone decides to play Riven (or any of the Myst series, really) it requires genuine dedication. If you stop playing for a week, you'll probably never get back into it without a full restart.

[@VZed]

I agree with you, but i would be lying if i didn't experience that with most games i play, lol.

[@mikeflightfpv2162]

I remember spending countless hours digging away at all the content in this game back in the 90's. My friends and I managed to beat it somehow back then. I just bought it again for android and am excited to re live this game. Lol

[@crisiskode]

I was trying to show my boyfriend this game and what it’s about and this was one of the only videos I could find. Good video! Just sad this seems to be a largely forgotten about series

[@VZed]

Well, the Riven remake is supposedly out this year sometime. Not completely forgotten. Hope the video was helpful for your explanation.

[@kemasuk]

In the Myst video, you talk about not packing anything from the intro (the dialogue of Atrus falling into the fissure). I think Riven thrusts something into your mind that you may only subconsciously notice you've carried with you: (some minor Riven spoilers, below) When you complete the animals puzzle, you get a reprise of melody you hadn't really heard since Riven's intro, playing over the broken panel that started you on this sequel's journey. (and you realize you finally end up seeing the box art)

[@VZed]

oh interesting, I didn't catch that myself. If i have the game going again some day soon I'll have to listen for that.

[@mrsmilee]

Riven is the quiet achiever, most people out in the world are aware of Myst but fans live for Riven imho, I can't wait for the remake - hoping they don't change much.

[@TheTyper]

This video's accurate to a fault about Riven. Also what's weird is I too had a prolonged and complicated history with trying to beat Riven. I used a guide at a young age to beat Myst, beat Myst 3 on my own in my teen years, and went on to do the same for Myst 4 and 5. But Riven was one I never landed my hands on until 18 or so. And it took almost 10 years to get back to it and sit down and really play it. For some reason I still found its puzzles ridiculously confusing and hard, despite it making logical sense. It's like the world was so believable I just didn't really know what to do with it.

[@VZed]

That's a great way of putting it. I sometime come back to a video months later realizing a point i missed or a better way of wording something and i like the way you put it. It's like they designed a world for it's own purposes first then added the game later. Makes it feel so real.

[@cd2220]

If you haven't played Outer Wilds (not Outer Worlds, different game) I HIGHLY recommend it. It feels like a more modern take on a Myst style game set in the horrors of space. The story also does a good job of being present without being in the way. I finished recently and very much had that same really cool feeling of "wow, with the information I've studied and earned about how this game functions I can do the end game right from the very beginning." Your reward for solving puzzles and figuring things out isn't a better piece of gear, it's a better understanding of how the game's world operates and how you can use that to progress.

[@VZed]

I have indeed played Outer Wilds and loved it. Very happy you mentioned it here, it's my favourite game of last year, and likely of the 2010's decade. I also... may or may not have some script notes for it...

[@danielrazulay]

thanks for the tip, I absolutely love myst, riven, and myst 3.. also check out the journeyman project trilogy too! Also biosys! Zork: Nemesis, Black Dahlia, 7th Guest & 11th Hour, Phantasmagoria, etc etc... FMV point & click adventures were truly my favorite era in gaming history.

[@jeanjacqueslundi3502]

BRO!!! Just checked Outer Wilds....wow that's one of the coolest games I have seen in a loong time. I might have to buy it

[@TheZampa]

Myst looks like a playground, Riven looks like a world

[@VZed]

That is such a good way to put it!

[@danielrazulay]

"when I played myst, decades back" ... sent a shiver down my spine man. Can't believe how time flies! Agreed, riven is cyan's true masterpiece. "Tage ma! Tage ma ne kuahne!".... only riven players will understand.. I'll be buying obduction once I get a machine that can run it properly...

[@VZed]

I try not get freaked out by how quickly time moves... and i often fail...

[@abraxasvoice440]

"Give it to me...Give it to me...you can trust me"😃👍

[@nethrelm]

"Riven is Cyan's real masterpiece" Yes. Absolutely. I love Myst, but Riven is a masterpiece through and through. It's better than Myst in every way (and taking the two together it tells a fantastic story).

[@ianloreen7817]

17:26 Hold on, you can rotate that?!

[@TheCompletionist]

This was an excellent detailed analysis my friend and I wouldn't expect anything less out of you. These are games that I often seen in the computer stores of the mid to late 1990's but unfortunately they never really had my interest, so it's nice to see video's like which truly show what these games are about and the qualities that make them memorable experiences.

[@VZed]

It is odd to me that Myst and (and to a lesser extent) Riven are revolutionary, huge selling classic games that most people seem to have little to no awareness of these days. Working on these videos was big for me cause of how much of my early gaming life they occupy and hopefully showing people what these games did/meant.

[@emilyrln]

Me: *travels to a different island* Game: please insert disk five. Me: *inserts disk, travels some more* Game: please insert disk two. Me: *headdesk*

[@VZed]

I have to say... this is a feature i'm glad they didn't preserve.

[@emilyrln]

@@VZed lol I was so happy when I got the DVD version

[@nethrelm]

Oof, yeah I have the 5 CD original release too. That was frustrating at times to be sure! I'm glad that's no longer a problem. Now if only Cyan and their volunteer team will get Starry Expanse done...

[@trapez77]

I don’t see riven as a video game. It’s more like a real experience that I had

[@KidRisky]

Love the videos on Myst and Riven, and will be diving into your back catalog soon. Can you tell me which video covers the “singular moment” in Riven that made such an impression on you? Or was it encountering the little girl?

[@VZed]

It is indeed meeting the little girl in the forest. It was such a shock to the system after playing Myst as much as i had that i was so surprised i had to turn the game off and collect myself for a while before going back to it.

[@abraxasvoice440]

@@VZed . that little girl in the forest scared the💩 out of me 2. I realized then i was into something different.

[@danielcitron6759]

Really liked this compare/contrast between the two games. Building on the part where you talk about the two games being part of the same story - did you ever read the novel they wrote, The Book of Atrus, which acts as a prequel to both books? I read it between playing Myst and Riven, and found that understanding aspects of Riven’s story, such as the star fissure, would have been much, much more difficult without having the extra context provided by the book.

[@condescendingcanadian9970]

It seems like you are motivated often by interacting with game worlds in organic ways. The way you play minecraft and the way you view Riven are similar, and your preference for Riven over Myst makes sense. You want to explore a world, not fiddle with a machine. Cool!

[@condescendingcanadian9970]

Obligatory HOW DARE YOU SAY RIVEN IS GUD

[@VZed]

You are not wrong. That is a personal revelation i've been slowly revelating over the last little bit.

[@BigSunn0]

god the 90s were magical

[@rimurutempest9937]

IMO the 90's and early 2000's were truly the golden age of PC gaming. Yes, games now have much better graphics/sound and have much higher production values. But the more corporatized the industry has become, the more heartless/soulless it has become as well. There are of course exceptions to that, and indie developers aren't typically included in that assessment.

[@jeanjacqueslundi3502]

Riven is indeed Cyan's masterpiece, as fas as I'm concerned..........and even as a wannabe game designer as a kid, I knew the fact Robyn Miller....and most importantly Richard Vander Wende (responsible for the look of DIsney's Aladdin) were involved was a big reason why. After they both left Cyan.........the games were just not the same. Even if you take III and IV which were developed by different studios....it's just a different feel, altough Exile came closest in my opinion. Riven is a landmark game for me. I remember being 12 and being OVER THE MOON something like this even existed.......getting lost in an ORIGINAL-looking alien world, with full detail of a different culture etc....not bound by our reality. You'd think it would be a much more common experience in videogames...........but actually..........24 years afterwards.............Riven still stands out in the videogame landscape as really really unique. Designing a world is the most important part of making a cool videogame.............and it really saddens me more companies aren't as keen on delivering to us really odd, surreal or unique experiences in that department. .

[@abraxasvoice440]

Exile was the last "true" Myst game. Good enough to call it "THE LAST IN THE TRILOGY"

[@ZTenski]

I've got both on my phone, so no need for a choice. IMO though, Riven was a better game, simply because it was longer and had better backstory. Myst will allways have a place in my heart though, because it was the first game I ever completed and then immediately replayed when I was a kid.

[@troublewithweebles]

The level of effect that the Myst games and books had on my young imagination I often compare to how others were inspired by Tolkien, whom I read later in life.

[@rashkavar]

Wow, that description of the puzzle involving the room and the eyes and the...etc was so cryptic that I genuinely don't know what all of those hints are, as someone who knows Riven fairly well and has completed it on a couple of occasions.

[@Planetdune]

Myst has been remade 15 times by now... if only we would get Riven once :( (I know about the Starry expanse project but that has been in development for a decade or so and just like Skywind, it might or might not ever make it all the way..)

[@VZed]

Gosh, a Riven remake is long overdue. Only stipulation is none of that 3D approximation of the FMV stuff... gotta find someway to preserve that original look and feel.

[@augustomarchand]

Riven is the masterpiece of masterpieces. Is the pinnacle of adventure games followed by Zork Nemesis.

[@VZed]

Well, I guess I need to play Zork Nemesis now.

[@augustomarchand]

@@VZed ZN is a superb game. Activision rules!

[@notmynamedammit]

I've been thinking about Myst a lot lately since they just released a VR port. Made me wonder whether they'll do this for any of the others. I'm curious what your take on Obduction is, since it is their most recent game I think.

[@VZed]

I would love to experience Myst and Riven in VR, and knowing Myst is already there i'm the closest i've been to investing in a VR set up. As for Obduction i enjoyed what i have played of it, but i only got to it recently as i have just built a new PC that could actually handle it. Problem was it was surrounded by so many other games i wanted to play and i wasn't making videos at the time so i wasn't really engaging with stuff in the same way. So at the moment it is promising in my mind but no real opinion on it yet. I will go back to it soon.

[@maximeteppe7627]

The issue with porting riven to VR is that the original 3D files have been lost to time, which is also why there was no HD remaster, let alone a realtime "masterpiece edition". Thankfully, fans are working on it, it's called the starry expanse project. Since they stroke a deal for Cyan to publish the realtime 3D remaster, they have gone silent, probably for confidentiality reasons, but I'm impatient to experience riven in realtime HD. I thought obduction was cool, but maybe could have been bolder in renewing the formula. It's a cool world, but not quite as memorable as riven, and the story left me wishing it had been more. Also, be aware that there are fairly long loading times that make some of the late game more frustrating than it has to be. Still, I'd recommend it to Cyan fans: not a complete return to form, but a good effort to bring the charm of myst to the 21st century.

[@ChadMojito]

underrated channel. great work.

[@troublewithweebles]

The only tattoo I've ever considered is the rebel dagger 🗡️

[@larrygarms7230]

Riven is the crown jewel indeed. The conclusion of an amazing story. Riven 4 had potential, but fell a bit short in execution ...and all the others were just empty calories.

[@VZed]

we are definitely on the same page, in so far as I played Exile but remember barely anything of it other than Brad Dourif was in it. I never did play Revelations or End of Ages. Maybe i should make that leap this year.

[@larrygarms7230]

@@VZed without spoiling anything, 4 explores what happened to the sons. It also brings back Atrus & Catherine and introduces you to their young daughter. Some moments are the best in the series ...while others fall flat. Would love to hear you thoughts on it.

[@VZed]

Yeah, at some point I got a rundown on what the game was about but none of the details. Sounds interesting at the very least, and... I own it... so i probably should play it, right?

[@kemasuk]

Myst is a regal crown, Riven is a cut jewel that sparkles when the light hits it just right and was designed to fit into said regal crown. Exile is the crown for the prince, or princess.

[@AwfulPossum]

Hey dude, absolutely loved this video. I'm extremely unfamiliar with Riven compared to Myst. Do you plan to cover The Witness in the future?

[@VZed]

Thanks, friend! And as for The Witness... well, i am working that "kinda sorta puzzle game series" i mention in the video ;)

[@michelottens6083]

I might be in the camp of weird people fans for liking the complete Uru (and End of Ages as its epilogue) the best. Its huge sprawl of places and naturalistic puzzles is still unprecedented for the genre. The whole thing's a cohesive and finished whole, and it's the one game (two, I guess) that finally explains, frames, and grounds this whole series' larger drama and worldbuilding in something with thematic resolution. Also it adds a smooth camera and more complex character controls, and it uses those additions to the puzzle palette cleverly. But yeah it is as flawed and awkward as the Ubisoft ones, for much of it. And Riven's the only flawless one of these.

[@BrandonBlume]

Riven absolutely is the masterpiece of the series.

[@michelottens6083]

Dang, I want to throw patreon money at this channel but can't. These Myst game videos are my people and I need to support them!

[@VZed]

Well thanks very much I appreciate the points you've made in other comments. I love how much there is to consider in games like this. I myself need to finish the rest of the Myst series. I stopped after Exile was kind of disappointing back in the day, but i'm sure there's stuff to talk about in it if i were to go back to it nowadays. No specific plans for a Patreon yet, but it is something I'm considering. I plan on stepping away from this genre of game for a little bit (I need to think about other stuff for a while) but these are some of my favourites, and just in reading suggestions people send me of games in or around this genre i'm sure i'll be back at them before long :)

[@michelottens6083]

@@VZed : ) You seem to have drawn a pretty dusty niche of people out of the weeds with this series of videos. I'd recommend a bunch of these exploration puzzle games as well (nobody remembers the Cryo games!!), but also I'm hyped to see whatever you come up with in other types of videos. Will put the rest of this channel on my watch list. Thanks for your insights! And have fun whenever you get to play more of this game series! They're all somewhat great.

[@trapez77]

I’m jealous of the people that read about the age of riven in ‘the book of atrus’ before riven came out

[@ryansaper]

Bring a camera. My Riven sketchpad/notebook filled up quickly.

[@DanielleWhite]

The main issue i had with Riven was technical problems. I don't know if it was due to the system i had at the time or if it was later patched. None were crash or game stopper level, rather it was all stuff like the wrong animation playing, like part of the hangman game animation playing when in the submarine, or sound events playing twice. It took a lot of the polish off the experience for me.

[@adamsteele6148]

Riven is brutal

[@rpgcinema7916]

have you played exile? i'm working through it now

[@VZed]

I played through most of it a long time ago. Never did finish it though.

[@operator8014]

I finally finished Myst fully for the first time last month. I found that only some of the "puzzles" were as purely nonsensical as I recall from my childhood. The gears puzzle near the start took me about as long as the entire rest of the game. I mathematically proved that it was impossible to solve... until I held down the control a little longer than normal. 🤦

[@MiguelTron666]

Will you review abduction?

[@VZed]

I haven't planned on it yet, but it's definitely something that could happen. I have played some of Obduction and it is a strange game. Really looking forward to digging further into it soon.

[@MiguelTron666]

@@VZed I finally finished Myst and Riven and I have to say it was a pleasure to experience them both. I actually enjoyed note taking for solving the puzzles, which didn't have to do as thoroughly in Myst. I mostly needed to lookup hints with the maze which was horrible and skipped it, the first statue and the marble puzzle since I had it written down wrong. It's a shame I couldn't find them in my language, those handwritten books in Riven were painful to read and I thought I was going to miss important clues. Thanks for the recommendations and great video!

[@CrimsonFox36]

And now, for Exile

[@abraxasvoice440]

Best Video Game ever!!! More than a game in my opinion!!😲

[@tonyallen4265]

Yes. Riven is a masterpiece. A wildly ambitious gamble that was a total success. Then they went all in on URU. Well... I guess you can gamble too much.

[@VZed]

Hey, even failed experiments can be valuable.

[@Vvardenfell_Outlander]

As a fan I take Riven. As a historian I take Myst.

[@diggerdog9205]

Myst is Demon Souls Riven is Dark Souls

[@hemangchauhan2864]

Should I skip Myst and play Riven?

[@VZed]

Definitely possible. The story doesn't leave that much in the first game so if you're looking for a more organic puzzle experience then skipping to Riven might be a good idea.

[@jasonblalock4429]

I'd say definitely play Myst. Even if it's technically skippable in a plot sense, A)it's not that long to complete, and B)it trains you for the sort of environmental/contextual thinking that Riven demands, even if Myst's version of the concept isn't as robust.

[@abraxasvoice440]

Nooo. Please No. Riven its a better game but it feels way better after playing Myst.😲

[@gregkrazanski]

riven is indeed cyan's true masterpiece! i LOVE myst and i think it's incredibly thoughtfully made, but I would say Obduction is better than Myst and doesn't fall too short of Riven!

[@VZed]

I really need to go back to Obduction. Didn't manage to get all the way through it but that was before I did this series on puzzle games, so I feel like I might have new appreciation for it at this point.

[@gregkrazanski]

@@VZed If you can look past a couple shortcomings, it is seriously a work of genius. SO EXCITED FOR FIRMAMENT coming out in like a week!

[@AaronGwynaireGameDev]

really cool video. riven is definitely my favourite out of the series. It has such depth and atmosphere, and has inspired me to make my Riven style game called Neyyah. You might find it interesting as you have taken such a shine to Riven. Feel free to check it out on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/1289720/Neyyah/ Any video on Riven is great to see :) will look into more of your work!

[@aalomac]

riven 对我人生有重大影响