Mystery Dumpster Teardown - 2020-05-30

Teardown of a mystery item found in the dumpster.
#DumpsterDiving #Teardown
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[@bobweiss8682]

The -110V bus must be used for ringing voltage generation. Typically a phone line is 48 VDC, with a 90Vrms 20 Hz sinewave superimposed to ring the line.

[@EEVblog2]

Yep, had to be it. Probably fairly low current, although you'd have to cater for all phones ringing at once worst case

[@lmamakos]

@@EEVblog2 yeah, and the loop voltage is -48V referenced to ground, so that it's a negative bus sorta makes sense.

[@jaro6985]

Per the label: 3.3V 14A, 5V 3A, -48V 1.3A, -110V 0.2A. From what I see online a line might take 10mA to ring (~1W).

[@leonkernan]

Hang on, I've got an Avaya system running over 2 sites, connected through the internet by a VPN. The IP Office 500 is at the main office and the second site only has a PoE switch for the phones. Following your logic, how are the phones at the second site ringing? We aren't sending a sine wave over the internet. edit: I'm a dill, we're using IP only, analog was a separate option for these units.

[@agurdel]

Thats what I was thinking too, but this is IP and not POTS. There might be a module available that uses it, but I would say that the -110V is unused in this configuration.

[@ed-jf3xh]

I wish I had access to a dumpster room like yours.

[@rundata]

You do It’s just locked and you need to let yourself in ;]

[@jimmaziashvili8533]

​@@rundata This is the Lock Picking Lawyer, and what I have for you today...

[@sandy1653]

They call it an IP Office, but it's not actually an IP PBX, it's a digital PBX with their own proprietary signalling between the PBX and the various stations. The five hundreds are also gimped from the factory. They've got 4 bays and 4 headers on the main board but you can actually only run 2 cards in the silly thing. I haven't been an Avaya dealer in a while, but I seem to remember our basic package of one of those and 10 phones was in the $6,000 range.

[@TheLambLive]

It's design is more about rinsing unknowing businesses of cash than providing a good PBX system.

[@sandy1653]

@@TheLambLive One of the reasons I stopped being a Nortel/Avaya dealer lol.

[@jamesdavies686]

Our system has all 4 ports populated. What are you talking about? Also, these can handle Digital, Analog, and H323 IP phones plus SIP. You are clueless. It is a true IP phone system. All depends on what cards you put in it.

[@Mythricia1988]

I'm just impressed your camera can change aperture without a visible shift in brightness. That exposure adjustment is fast as f****

[@tookitogo]

Maybe it’s a mode equivalent to the “P” mode on an SLR, where it shifts the aperture and shutter in lockstep, such that the EV (exposure value) remains the same.

[@darrenslab5537]

Audio will be for music on hold.

[@gvii]

I used to bebop all over the North America installing Avaya VOIP equipment like that. And yeah, you're right. New, they are several thousands of dollars. I couldn't give you exact numbers, I just installed them and ran the wiring. As with most office equipment, it really doesn't seem to go for much secondhand.

[@jfbeam]

Indeed. The multi-thousand dollar audiocodes crap we have can be had on ebay for $50 these days.

[@someguy4915]

The value typically is in service and support, knowing that if anything goes wrong or breaks you will get quick replacements from the selling party, once it goes second hand it has lost that support usually and is near worthless. Some tiny companies might purchase it if they're desperate and some IT students might want to use it to learn, besides that not many buyers (and the students won't pay much for it anyway), plenty of supply, no demand.

[@darrenslab5537]

The line cards would be worth selling on ebay

[@gbowne1]

this one should be called "Dave plays with lights for half an hour."

[@leonkernan]

I've got one of those in the server room right now running our phone system.

[@jastervoid]

Leon Kernan same

[@Tomothy-e3b]

Same here, Belongs in the dumpster imo

[@TheLambLive]

My sympathies.

[@pmsrodrigues]

We run this at work as well, but since it was installed last year probably not the same version. Will need to check.

[@stonent]

AT&T's phone division became Lucent Technologies which later became Avaya.

[@larryrussell5440]

Avaya was actually a division of Lucent that sold business phone systems. Lucent was the former equipment division of AT&T that was originally Western Electric. They did everything from fabricating cable to chips to large mainframe central office switching systems to mobile. Lucent has now merged with Nokia.

[@themrenerd7384]

@@larryrussell5440 Before Lucent was bought by Nokia they merged with Alcatel, then Nokia bought Alcatel-Lucent

[@pen25]

@@larryrussell5440 they have also merged with alcatel. and if i remember correctly nortel

[@mechlabman]

Standard POTS ( plain old telephone sets ) operate with 48 volts open circuit, 6 to 10 volts off hook. The ring voltage was 90 volts at 20 hertz. I can only assume that the 110vdc is used to ring the bells of any old time phones attached. Although the older phones were actually fed a quasi sine wave 90v 20hz signal, you can pulse dc into the older phones to get a decent ring. The new phones have a huge range of parameters...

[@DJLuDog3]

My dad who who was a telephone tech for 40 years says 110 is coin collect and coin return he forgets which one is which but thats what they used +110 and -110

[@naikrovek]

ok but this switch doesn't have coin return or coin collect, so why does the supply provide that voltage? It won't provide that voltage over Power over Ethernet, either.

[@beefchicken]

Coin collect/return was +/- 135 VDC

[@user2C47]

Why would a PABX need coin phone lines?

[@tookitogo]

User 2C47 LOLing at the thought of an office requiring its staff to deposit coins to make calls. :p I suppose, in reality, that there are situations (in the past especially) where you’d want some pay phones in a building, and for some reason wanted them on the PBX instead of just letting the phone company run a separate line. And maybe in prisons?

[@ShoutingElectronics]

That unit looks more like an Analogue (POTS) PBX than IP Based. You can see that the Ports on the front do not have Ethernet Transformers/Magnetics, they have the more beefier Audio Transformers. Also each port on the front is used for 2 seperate extensions, if it was IP POE, then each port could only run 1 extension on it. The Analogue Units use higher Voltages to provide ringing voltages. But Nice find on that Powersupply....

[@TomStorey96]

The ethernet ports are on the back, and it is called the "IP Office 500" afterall... The modules in the front are probably for trunks - I did see mention of BRI on there, so ISDN sounds likely.

[@mrfrenzy.]

That's actually a really solid PBX, I have one at a customer and it just runs year after year. Easy to setup ring groups and queues etc. Works with both Avaya and 3rd party phones. Licenses are expensive.

[@swebigmac100]

I have one of those at the office. Bought it for like 10k usd w phones 7-8 years ago. Still use it. Works good.

[@evensgrey]

I worked in a place that installed something like this about 19 years ago (much bigger installation, for a couple hundred lines). Inside, the hardware is going to just be a pretty standard PoE-equipped switch, which means a beefy power supply to supply all the power for the connected phones. (PoE is still pretty much standard for phones, so many distribution switches with IP-phone capability have surprisingly hefty PSUs for otherwise fairly modestly sized equipment.) As for how much modern equipment with similar capabilities costs, the closest match I can find quickly is a Cisco switch, model WS-C2960X-24TS-L (24 ports, PoE, and all 2960 range switches have VoIP capability available, it just needs to be license enabled and configured, then you need to install the VoIP server software on a suitable server and configure the system). Being a modern device, this 2960 has gigabit ethernet ports and 10-gigabit ethernet ports for uplink, and supports Cisco's cross-linking standard so you can stack 4 or 8 units together (I forget which version this particular model supports) and cross-link them into a single logical switch (which makes administration easier). As standard, you can get individual units with up to 48 ports, so you can get up to 360 IP phones (each with attached workstation) per logical switch. And, from some resellers, you can get the 24-port model for under a thousand bucks at the moment. I located an old ZDnet review of this device www.zdnet.com/product/avaya-ip-office-500/ which says this device supports IP phones or digital phones (apparently a different protocol) but doesn't mention support for analog phones. It also quotes a list price of US$700 in 2007. The only manuals I can find from Avaya are from 2005 for IP Office 4xx series devices.

[@Willy_Tepes]

I have learned a ton from your tear downs.

[@geirendre]

This can be loaded with different modules, so you could have one for POTS phones (and a FAX), some for IP-phones and some for PC's, printers, AP's etc. That's the "Office" part of the name of this thing. It can supply all you need of connectivity at a small office. Firewall, printserver, the whole shabang.

[@TofuInc]

The only IP part about these is the IP phones and Trunks, as well as the ability for them to be programmed over the internet and time sync. They did no IP connectivity beyond phones. Avaya would be happy to sell you a separate $3K 48port re branded switch to go with that phone system...

[@Ken-sk7oe]

The 500V1 used a external power supply. There was a 400 series before the 500 they had a white cover. The 2 cards installed are COMBO cards they slide in from the front. Ports 1-6 are for digital phones, Ports 7-8 are for analog devices or for Overhead Paging, ports 9-12 are for CO lines or POTS lines the kids say (Plain Old Telephone Service). The LEDs change colors to show if a port is being used. There are several different cards as well as Expansion Cabinets that plug into the Expansion ports 1-8 on the back. The 110 bus is ring voltage for the analog ports. The SD card contains the OS either Basic Mode or IPOffice Mode, it also stores voice mails and contains Licenses. The 3.5 headphone jack labeled EXT O/P are 2 contact closures, Audio is for a Music On Hold. The WAN port is for SIP trunks. The LAN port connects to your Local Network it also functions as a router. If I remember correctly there default IP Address's are 192.168.43.1 for the WAN and 192.168.42.1 LAN. I worked as a tech for a AVAYA business partner for many years.

[@G7OEA]

I used to be a system admin for that system. They came out in 2008. The as card is for the license files for voice mail and the number of supported phone's. The audio is for the external music on hold source. They were a really good and fully featured systems for the price.

[@davidblarstron767]

its needs an external analog music source???? havent they heard of mp3?? or is it if you want the audiophilc experiance of analog audio....over the phone!

[@TheXlen]

That's a nice Delta PSU you've got there before you even mentioned any of the components the name Delta is already a good indication.

[@tannerbass7146]

You should grab all those phones, salvage the mics, and make a mega microphone array 😁

[@Sunnyskyguy]

I designed a 1U rack for AVAYA (nee Lucent) as their 1st outsourced ODM about 20 yrs ago at C-MAC Winnipeg. It was a simple POE 24 channel for their digital phones. I made the 1st mockup prototype delivered to Denver in 7 wks ARO contract with sheet metal and PCB's. This was around the time when stack jack RJ45's 1st came out. This is a sophisticated IP VOIP POE with voicemail office network server or extension. We produced most of the Nortel products as well as many other company products.

[@reddragon27284]

Complete guess, but is the -110V for ringers on analogue phones if it had a POTS card installed?

[@christophertstone]

Pronounced: ah-VI-yuh It's the renamed remnants of Bell Labs via Lucent.

[@williamjones4483]

Not Bell Labs. Western Electric. Bell Labs still exists. It is owned by Nokia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Electric

[@klarusboy]

anything interesting on the SD card?

[@leonkernan]

Probably the reason it’s gone in the bin. Those get corrupted and the system is toast

[@EEVblog2]

@@leonkernan Wouldn't surprise me unfortunately.

[@CliveChamberlain946]

@@leonkernan it's for config and nortel/avaya don't make shit. what makes people toss them is scam artist service providers charging an arm and a leg (covid gives them excuses too)

[@_Miner]

Also stores any licenses for additional paid for services

[@avibank]

Really surprised by light pipes. Thought it would be eaiser amd cheaper to mount led pcb with ribbon to main board. Shows what I know...

[@turbochardged]

i still use them. it's pronounced AH-VIA. it's a phone system for digital phones. good find! The 110 is used for "ringing" analog extensions.

[@spunkmire2664]

"Second channel shit" is the shit i like.

[@Nighthawke70]

IP Telephony, kinda what motels use for their phone systems. The cheap ones that don't want to switch out their phones for PBX units. Pretty straightforward in programming, only if we used FAX systems, then we get down and dirty in the software to set it up properly. I've converted a condominium from a old school POTS system to IPT and its mostly gruntwork, repunching the local patch panel into the IPT panel and verifying it all works. It's pretty bulletproof.

[@odbo_One]

Willing to share this dumpster with me? Thanks for another great video!

[@cryptearth]

avaya is actually a big voip company in the call-center business - these systems support not just the voice comm but also digital shift time clocks to track when you're available for a call, in call, after a call, have a break, all sorts of other special custom codes - it'S basically a drop in one-in-all solution focused on the needs of the call-center business

[@brodiehaward]

I have that exact thing running the IP phones in my house. Picked it up cheap on ebay.

[@kf5tqnkf5tqn36]

48VDC was a telco standard for POTS lines in off-hook operation long before Ethernet (much less PoE) was dreamed up.

[@BersekViking]

110v could be for an (optional) ISDN interface. An open (unloaded) ISDN line typically show around 100v.

[@adancalderon8915]

Bell Labs, Lucent, then Avaya. I still use their old analog Partner ACS systems.

[@redsquirrelftw]

Northern Telecom and Nortel in there somewhere too. So many changes and transformation in telecom gear companies lol. oh and Northern Electric too. I think it went something like Northern Electric -> Northern Telecom -> Nortel, and then when they went tits up it kinda got split up. Avaya is one part, there's also Ciena I believe. Not sure if Alcatel-Lucent is part of it too or is separate. Then there was the smaller ones like Newbridge. Kinda too bad they're gone, their stuff was actually made in Canada. Don't see much of that anymore.

[@TheEPROM9]

Switches & Routers oftern have good PSU's in worth salvaging.

[@williamsquires3070]

Don’t forget to pull the SD card - reformat it and away you go; wheeee! 😊

[@pgprentice]

Phone lines normally run on -48v DC (referenced to ground) when the line is idle. During the ringing cycle (in the US, 2 seconds on, 4 seconds off), a ringing voltage of 75-90v AC (typically 20 Hz in the US) is superimposed on top of the -48v DC.

[@Alacritous]

I would have shit myself if I found a complete IP phone system in a dumpster.

[@larryrussell5440]

If you tried to sell it, it would be considered to be gray market, and you would have a lot of trouble getting software and support without a maintenance contract which would be way more than what it is worth.

[@Jae_972]

thats a PBX server for an avaya phone system. one of our clients still has that same unit up and running. its horrible i can't wait to rip it out.

[@l3p3]

why its horrible?

[@shaunclarke94]

I used one in an old job and had no big complaints?

[@swebigmac100]

We have one of these at the office. Works great. Have the voicemail system w sound recorder and all of that. Works great. Easy setup also. No complaints

[@Marzec309]

My guess is the -110V is for the ring voltage.

[@IanLemmon]

There are voltage differences for activating message waiting lamps on analog phones as well. Modern systems use 90V. Some older systems are over 100V. Could be this system was capable of lighting lamps on older analog phones.

[@jamesdavies686]

Dave, this is still a relevant phone system. I install these several times a year. Maybe don't scrap it.

[@afsfigueriedo2009]

Interesting ! This one is from Brazil ( The ANATEL symbol in the tag :)

[@ekaa.3189]

That unit is going to be all digital. IP phones have their own DAC and ADC circuits. It will talk to the IP phone via TCP/IP.

[@l3p3]

Yes but maybe it connects analog phones to an IP phone network. Real IP phones go directly to the ethernet ports also used by computers I think. That thing is on the back here. Those ports on the front is to hook up old phones, backwards compatiblity. I think!

[@twocvbloke]

if the unit has Hybrid ports (Analogue & Digital), the 110v will be for ringing traditional telephones, would be pretty pointless to have 110v for an IP phone given the ringing on those is software controlled so I would definitely go with the hybrid system theory... (I only have experience with Panasonic KX-T61610BE & T30810BE analogue phone systems, cos I like collecting vintage phones)

[@Natures_Intentions]

I don't have Twitter or Instagram so I don't see any videos posted on that social media.

[@shaunclarke94]

Used this system in an old job of mine where it ran a school phone system. Probably still does actually. Plenty of them on eBay these days so aren't worth a lot.

[@joopterwijn]

Just writing down my internal laughter, -110,... that serious cooling 🤪😂😎

[@jagardina]

Avaya is what ATT Western Electric eventually became. First Lucent, they they split off the boring phone switch and voicemail business to become Avaya. I think they're owned by Alcatel now or something.

[@zeroy]

Funny seeing this, worked for years on these and older models (412) there isn't much to them really... But still worth a few quid.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

Nowadays you could replace it with a Raspberry Pi running a free Asterisk install and have probably double the number of features - and no endpoint license costs.

[@TheTrueCelt28]

The company I work for just swapped out all the Avaya items they had! Hope it went to the local technology recycling company.

[@Dylant38]

Would make a great at home phone system, for the ones without cell service but excellent internet service

[@Buy-n-large]

can you image the SD card and link it?

[@acidrain55]

I see you have a Fluke on the table, what you would recommend for electronics. The Fluke 113 is cheapest one near me, but what do you think?

[@stphinkle]

Usually the ringing of analog phones (which many phone systems also support), is accomplished by applying a 90 volt pulse.

[@cognetic]

We pronounce Ayaya as ...uh-vie-ya or uh-v(eye)-yuh

[@TheDefpom]

don't phones use a high voltage (~75VAC) for the ring? but I wouldn't have thought that would apply to something like this.

[@EEVblog2]

Ah yes, of course forgot about the ring, and that this was phone system :->

[@SeanBZA]

@@EEVblog2 J package will be the old digital interface board, and it will stay J lead because it is the part dealing with the -48V side, to provide power and signalling down the cable to the individual phones. Yes likely an old part, but also helpful in isolation with the larger lead spacing. Supercap is for backing up the time and date, system configurations will be held on the SD card, as they will survive the power being off for long periods. Should be provision there for a battery bank, and then the power supply will provide 48V to charge it, running the whole system off a set of secondary converters to power it, while the mains input goes to provide the 48V supply only.

[@jp-ny2pd]

That Avaya branded chip probably contains the licensed IP like the G729 audio codecs and whatever they use to talk to their phones.

[@kenwolfe6093]

110v for ringer. Actually 70v but that’s the likely reason

[@jamescrook99]

Wonder if they wiped the sdcard, or left the config, including passwords, voicemails, user details for forwarding .....

[@williamsquires3070]

Wow, did anyone notice the notch in the PSU board just for that crystal? That probably cost the company $$$ to have that notch custom-cut, when they could have just rotated the crystal 90 degrees and cleared the PSU PCB easily. Okay, Dave, time for the epic fail button! 🤣

[@TomStorey96]

It doesnt look like the PSU board itself has a notch cut out of it, just the insulator underneath, which may have been designed by Avaya themselves. Agree though, a couple of mm shift or rotate and that could have been a much simpler part!

[@PsiQ]

yeaaah. when you were rewiring the old 1960 telekom wires which came in your 3 floor house but had 20 or more connectors.. for 2 phones connected.. you could get a tingling on the back of your hand when somebody called in with those 110V... only did it once when moving the dsl router. Now that everything is stuffed into voip and you are helpless on a power outage OR internet problem. went from power redundant to two failure points without safety backup.

[@echoecho540]

Dave: **has camera zoomed in for over 2 min on power supply sticker that clearly says -110V out** Also Dave: Whatttt?!!?? This has -110V output???

[@gglovato]

yeah i was screaming at the screen, the label details everything!

[@marcellipovsky8222]

@@gglovato I was more waiting for AvE's "Focus you F**k!" 😂🤣

[@EEVblog2]

As I have to explain many time, you can't read that fine font on the 3" camcorder LCD, or direct line of site from half a meter away. It's easy for you when watching on your bigger screen zoomed in.

[@marcellipovsky8222]

@@EEVblog2 Dave, why dont you use an external live monitor for a preview?

[@jamesmdeluca]

Greetings: looks like they left the microSD program CHIP inside. You should verify the voltages on the PS outputs. No guess for the -110v supply usage.

[@theradiomechanic9625]

Ring voltage, 90v @20 Hz

[@timbelson9522]

Im learning telecommunications as a technician for most of our equipment its all supplied with negative voltage for example some alarm systems use -48v

[@garyslatter9854]

You find the best stuff

[@Mosfet510]

@ around 6:38 or so you said the same thing I did. I was reading the ps label and had to take a double take myself when I saw that!

[@mavsmith123]

These are still in production... Costs depend on installed license

[@davidblarstron767]

WTF?? who buys this things anymore havent they eard of asterix??

[@shaunclarke94]

@@davidblarstron767 this supports analog, digital and IP phones. And analog, ISDN and SIP trunks.

[@TofuInc]

​@@davidblarstron767 Asterisk is trash if your trying to use it for a legitimate phone system.

[@zvpunry1971]

It is pronounced "electronic waste". ;)

[@paulucas57]

the modules pull out from the front

[@MrNaufan]

what camera you're using

[@Chriva]

That thing would be heaved to play around with and turn it into something else. Lots of fun processors, DSP's, FPGA's etc :)

[@gordonzero]

ROFL IP Office 500 ... we still use this where i work ... if only i could get them to toss it and go to VOIP Phones

[@robine5280]

Teardowns belong on the main channel.

[@ovalwingnut]

"Unknown Condition, Selling as Parts or Repair". The AD would have to read 🙄 IMHO. Really puts a damper on value 😢

[@lost4468yt]

When I used to sell boards like this I'd just write that they were working so long as they booted. Very very rarely is there something that was broken that would still allow it to boot fine. If someone ever said it wasn't working I'd just trust them and refund straight away. But that happened so rarely, much more rarely than it would get damaged or go missing in shipping.

[@stphinkle]

If it works, it could be used in a small office.

[@itsmesb4399]

Again another video I never got a notification for even though the bell is on for all.

[@hempbear]

Nice plastic poker you got there but I liked it more when you used a pocket knife to scratch inside a $10K+ spectrum analyzer :D

[@keithking1985]

was there a SD card in the left slot at the start??? P.S. all the different outputs on the power supply.. NICE!! a keeper for sure!! : )

[@excitedbox5705]

nice power supply but the rest is pretty useless. Could donate the boards to a school and they can use them for solder practice.

[@mercuryvapoury]

... but what was on the SD card?

[@Fake_Blood]

Maybe the "audio" jack is an input for the waiting cue music?

[@0ddhair]

It is, I've got one of these we're slowly phasing out.

[@svenboske844]

Speaking of Delta Electonics: recently I got a cheap chinesium Monitor to use as second Screen, which came with a Delta Electronics branded Powersupply. Can this be real? Or are there many Counterfeits out there? It makes my mind boggle to get a decent PSU with cheap Stuff...

[@Djkyle65]

should have grabbed the phones pretty expensive stuff

[@alexdhall]

That depends on the age and condition of the phones.

[@johncajka5424]

-110 volts dc will help with long runs on the phone lines

[@pvisit]

I see a telephone technology noob here :-)

[@MikeF1189]

Avaya is the Keysight of AT&T

[@AttitudeGames]

-110 v for the phone ring circuit maybe ?

[@chrissnyder2091]

That my friend is an avaya IP office telephone system controller. I have installed them and serviced them...

[@rikvdmark]

Must taste good. It’s NOM certified 🤣😜

[@NiHaoMike64]

Since it appears the phones aren't just Ethernet, it's worth getting one to tear down, then more if it turns out there's something worth salvaging from them!

[@nrdesign1991]

I'm *super* curious to know what's on the system SD card

[@mrfrenzy.]

Operating system and ivr/voice mail prompts/recordings.

[@emmoemminghaus6455]

-100V... probably some Intrusiondetection! :D

[@TheSadButMadLad]

Is this a photography channel or an electronics channel? All this talk about f-stops is confusing to electronics people. And all this talk about bga and voltages is confusing to camera people. :-o

[@AF6LJSue]

-110 ringing voltage.