The Lightbringer, Kris, and a LOT of Deltarune’s Lore Uncovered (maybe): Deltarune Theory/Analysis

[@giegue]

I actually always thought "Lightbringer" was meant as a insult to Kris

[@pabloeldiablo9545]

linkara in deltarune confirmed?

[@nellymurkthewitch]

It's a slur 😳🤬😭

[@danielzakgaim2764]

@@pabloeldiablo9545 You know what, I could see King being a Linkara fan.

[@okamiisaway5869]

@@pabloeldiablo9545 THE LIGHTBRINGEEERRR! THE LIGHTBRINGER IS REEEAAALL!

[@gaspardsavoureux8680]

@@okamiisaway5869 CAN WE GET MUCH BRIGHTER

[@david-rf7tf]

Im actually surprised you didn't bring up the fact the save points always say some sort of power SHINES within you, referring to the soul inside of kris holding the light

[@NTXsirens-eas]

HOW IS THIS 1 DAY AGO?!?!

[@HamPizz]

WHATTTTTTT.

[@HamPizz]

How

[@user-tw2jt9mg4d]

@@NTXsirens-eas Good question. Time travel????

[@firststarwalker9827]

the heck?

[@TheArtsyyBee]

Also, in don't forget the singer says outright "There's a light inside your soul" So the light thing is a perfectly viable theory

[@kfcdreemurr]

personally, I think the Don't Forget song seems much more likely speaking to the Player rather than Kris. Just sing the lyrics to yourself like they are meant for you and you'll see what I mean.. I hope.

[@HamPizz]

@@kfcdreemurr That exactly what he said.

[@HamPizz]

The soul is the light,but the body is the determination.

[@danielbueno8474]

@@kfcdreemurr I always thought it was from the perspective of Asriel to Kris, actually. _"The promise in our hearts / Don't forget / I'm with you in the dark"_ seems to imply a past conversation in which both parts made some kind of agreement or, well, a promise.

[@no-ft8dn]

YO😮 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4DOYWaehaepl6M

[@gjk-arts5855]

6:32 WAIT so that can also explain why kris took OUT the soul to create the dark fountain, as they wouldn't have been able to if they were still filled with light. To create a dark fountain using purely determination, without the barrier of a soul of light..

[@danielbueno8474]

Wait a second... could it be possible then that after Kris pulls out their knife at the end of chapter 1 they snuck into the librarby and opened the fountain to the Cyber World, and then went home? And they even ate the cake in an attempt to mislead the players into thinking they did nothing important with the knife because they knew Toriel would announce in front of the player in the morning they ate the cake?

[@gjk-arts5855]

@@danielbueno8474 mmm, but it IS shown that they are weak without the soul and can't go without it for long, I don't think kris would be able to do ALL that in one night without the soul - you also find noelle pretty quickly in the dark world so she wasn’t there for long so the entire timeframe that the dark fountain would’ve opened kris was doing other things..

[@dylantoney6971]

@@gjk-arts5855 we have no clue how long they can go for.

[@thepeeps5943]

@@dylantoney6971 It’s implied but not confirmed. But Noelle and Berdly were already studying when the fountain was opened up. I say this in books we’re out and they remember studying because they’d would remember falling into the portal and getting no studying done.

[@HamPizz]

@@thepeeps5943 So it not Kris because everyone know Kris,and the Town will suspect kris because he the only human.

[@thewho2820]

From reading just the title, I’m interested on what the lightbringer is, considering I know that Lightbringer is another way to say Lucifer/The Devil

[@purplenothing9305]

And the ANGELS Heaven…Toby my goodness…

[@HamPizz]

You get this idea of halfbreadchaos video .

[@Patrick11nf]

Also Gaster with his number 666 all over the code, who seems to be the one who brought us to Deltarune with the soul. Even if the fountains bring darkness, King refers to them as holy fountains, and the theme song for the fountains is called "THE HOLY".

[@alexvasquez7047]

the lightbringer is the superhero persona of a youtuber called Lacari. he will never admit it though.

[@AAAAA-hj7dv]

@@Patrick11nf If the name of someone that destroys the dark fountains with light is related to the devil and gaster, would that mean when the world is plunged into darkness when the Roaring comes could be similar to what happens when Jesus returns later on and God destroys the world, which could then tie back into to the Angel and Heaven?

[@Flagpole1up]

This is extremely compelling, one extra detail I found is that in the chapter 1 ending, once Kris removes the soul and holds it up, it actually does shine/ light up once before getting thrown into the bird cage. Many small details like this now make far more sense than just for visual flair. Very interesting to say the least.

[@blackzero786]

"Caging the Light" so to speak?

[@Monkayy69420]

I think it makes sense that kris being a human, a more physical being than monsters, could have special abilities in the dark world in place of magic. In fact i think it makes sense that humans would be the only ones able to bring the light of the light world to the dark worlds, since the light world is the 'real' world (or the physical world? We dont really know the full properties of dark worlds so idk)

[@Monkayy69420]

I also like an explanation for kris' soul glowing that isn't jaru's theory that kris absorbed asriels soul. I dont have anything against jaru but im not a fan of that theory lol

[@HamPizz]

Well some people try some explanation but dont know how to explain about some relation.

[@no-ft8dn]

YO😮 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4DOYWaehaepl6M

[@NorthernWind0]

Monsters in Deltarune are physical. We know this because they use the bathroom, they get sick, they don't have innate magic in the light world and because Blood is referenced several times in monster circles, where dust would normally be its functional equivalent.

[@Dolphin2048]

Monsters might be just as physical in deltarune as Susie bleeds

[@Tarragonofficial302]

You know how Spamton calls Kris little sponge? What if Kris’ soul absorbs the determination from the dark world, turning it back into normal? Like a sponge?

[@waffler-yz3gw]

no its because kris is spongebob

[@Walrus5]

and spamton is mr krabs

[@bosmethius]

can I be squidward

[@MetaKaios]

That might explain levelling up after sealing each fountain.

[@grandpaishere]

can i be plankton

[@ShadowSaberBaroxio]

Contrary to popular belief, Determination isn't actually associated with the red soul. All humans have determination. Toriel mentions the feeling of Deja Vu when meeting humans, and Asgore understands that he's killed you multiple times. The color most associated with Determination is actually the color Gold. The same color used by both Flowey, and the light of your save in Undertale. It's separate from yellow, which is most obviously seen in Asgore's flower shop, where he has 7 flowers of different colors, except instead of a red flower he has a yellow flower...and a gold flower.

[@DWal32]

Does that mean red is the color of control/connection? Every human soul that's been red we've seen so far has been controlled by the player.

[@BoredYoshi]

or the backarrow in spamton's text, it's also the symbol you get if you "capitalize" a comma. your point still stands though since spamton doesn't do this to any other commas he uses

[@Karxy]

Toby isn’t very consistent with that kind of thing tho so I can see it just being a typo

[@pintsizedkiwiYT]

Lucifer is actually Latin for light bringer, so it could tie into all the stuff with religion (I saw this point on a different video and double checked it) Edit: and your supposed to banish the angel’s heaven, you know like trying to take on heaven, like Lucifer

[@SurmenianSoldier]

i believe this is what appeared in toby's dream. this seems to be a lot dreamlike and nonsensical for a game like this, and the ending that toby dreamt probably has something to do with lucifer and heaven.

[@Colon-D...]

@@SurmenianSoldier that and cute goat twink

[@yogfan1139]

@@SurmenianSoldier Even more than all of this... Jevil sounds... like Devil. and the knife is legit called the DEVILSKNIFE so this does absolutly have some semblance of bearing on the story.

[@AshenDust_]

@@SurmenianSoldier maybe the ending involves the fun gang banishing the soul from their world. In the pacifist route, it’s a friendly but sad goodbye, with everyone living their lives without you. In the weird route it’s a desperate struggle to banish you before you kill them all.

[@damianmanville4723]

my name is Lucifer

[@krisspychissp]

I think lightbringer means how kris specifically is the one who brings light onto the dark world. This could be interesting, as kris’ soul might shine bright enough when connected to the fountain. Like the determination of the fountain adds to kris’ and allows them to briefly use their determination to do the reverse of making a dark fountain. You need to grab that determination. And so the “light fountain with the deltarune on it might actually be what happens when you use that determination outside of a dark world. Normally you’d only be able to use it in the dark world, and cancel it out, but then that would mean that the “light world” is actually just a neutral ground and when you make a light fountain it would open a portal to [HEAVEN]. This would be where the angel (and possibly what connects kris to the player) resides. I’ll repost the last part next video so people can see this theory

[@no-ft8dn]

YO😮 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4DOYWaehaepl6M

[@HamPizz]

@@no-ft8dn Again 5x off topic

[@krisspychissp]

@@no-ft8dn who actually asked? like who cares?

[@frogchamp.]

@@HamPizz é um bot ralsei chapado

[@HamPizz]

@@frogchamp. Eu sei,eu só to tentando fazer o bot ser mais legal é divertido.

[@leafgem]

Well, if the soul holds the light, it would make sense that kris could create a dark world only if the don't have the soul. Then the light of their soul couldn't destroy the dark fountain instantly.

[@flagonking1337]

Oh yeah! That makes sense! I always wondered about that bit...

[@HamPizz]

Well,if the soul have the light and the body have the determination, rip and lock the to Cage,that make sense.

[@pustota7254]

Your comment got liked 69 times.

[@DarktoLight561]

Actually, I think I know why Kris threw the soul away, It’s LIGHT is the problem because that is what seals the fountain, so It would basically do nothing, it wasn’t just to be out of control, but to insure they make it

[@supermemoluigi]

if Kris's soul is the same soul as Frisk in Undertale, then the properties of the soul would have changed in the transition of this new world but overall it still give us control up to a certain point.

[@TPN_2006]

This might single-handedly be the most convincing and well crafted Deltarune theory I have seen so far. Props to you, Slime, you’ve opened my eyes lol

[@MysticSlime]

Thank you so much! It means a lot

[@HamPizz]

That awesome of people confessing their compassion.

[@VulpineFox7]

Agree

[@Tam-Ezrac]

@@HamPizz their a bot

[@HamPizz]

@@Tam-Ezrac I know,i am just trying to make a bot more funny and cool.

[@oomoom9714]

THAT IS RIGHT KRIS, IT IS I, THE LIGHTBRINGER! Ralsei, as Susie beats the shit out of Linkara: Get him outta here, get him-don't give him his jacket

[@404_namenotfound9]

THROW EM OUT IN THE COLD

[@Boedinator]

@@404_namenotfound9 Berdly shouts in the distance “AAAHHHH MAKE THAT FOUNTAIN!”

[@StarlitNova12]

All the save points bring up power... So this might mean not only is the soul a source of light, but power as well. It would explain why Spamton believed it was the key to his freedom and why kris seems so weak when the soul is ripped out.

[@PhantomGato-v-]

Username and pfp is GOAT’d

[@Tristeve]

The save points looks different, but that's probably because they're all in the dark world. i wouldn't be surprised if in the future chapters the save points in the town are yellow

[@jackatk]

I can’t believe he didn’t even *mention* that Lightbringer is _literally_ Satan’s name. “Lucifer,” is Latin for Lightbringer, because in the Bible, he’s said to be the brightest of all the angels. It comes from _lucet (light)_ and _fert (to bear.)_ That’s the most notable thing that stood out to me, at least, and it seems like that line of dialogue from the King has *SO MANY* more implications than what you brought up.

[@neverfasty]

this is a really interesting theory! i’ve always wondered why the text arrow was there when spamton says lightner, so this does make sense as to why

[@viviblue7277]

I’ve noticed King use this title before in my many playthroyghs of ch1. I thought it was significant and probably had something to do with how Kris was the only one whose light could seal the dark fountains, a literal interpretation of the dialogue. The Lucifer thing is probably just foreshadowing for how you can do actual murder.

[@tytanm-2380]

So basically, Kris is the only one who’s allowed to say “I am determination” in ‘stronger than you’ lol

[@mistycomet9760]

This comment deserves to be hearted by the creator.

[@thelemoncoffee]

see now this makes more sense than trying to shoehorn in determination as the key thing with Kris, as thanks to both Berdly and Noel we know monsters also have at least some determination in this world. you'd think a game about literally dark and light worlds, and the usage of shine in the saves would make people go "huh, so light and dark are powerful forces here"

[@cheebins]

You’re absolutely onto something, I think if Kris’s body has innate Determination, then the soul/player has Power, which could be what directly causes our control of Kris. Every Deltarune save point mentions “Power” shining within you, and the song that plays when Light envelops and seals a dark fountain is called “Your Power,” probably specifically referring to the player’s. So I think that the soul’s Light and Power are one and the same. I’ve been thinking “Power” would be important for the longest this time, but it lines up perfectly with this theory! Ty for putting this video up, you did great on it

[@marokwai_5823]

I don't know why you didn't mention the fact that Spamton literally says "You've got the [LIGHT]" which is another way to tell that Kris is a lightbringer Also in "Don't forget" song, there is a line - "There is a LIGHT inside your soul"

[@saxeladude]

4:20 this to me is huge because it supports the idea that the dark world is brought by kris' imagination so when they bring light to the fountain it's like they're turning on a light switch

[@apersostudios7738]

Not to mention the lyric “There’s a light inside your soul” in Don’t Forget. I feel like that song will reveal a lot about the game’s plot(such as the line directly after, “That’s still shining in the cold,” which refers to the weird route.)

[@tomaszpawlik5091]

Was determination even confirmed to exist in deltarune ? It was mentioned only once and nothing suggests that it is that weird time space and mind altering power, "if one was simply determined enough" could just mean that queen needs someone with enough guts to do such a thing - not living after death powers

[@Endorsed1320]

Queen also explicitly refers to it as "This Power Of Determination" seconds before

[@tomaszpawlik5091]

@@Endorsed1320 This could very well be just a fancy way of saying she needs someone willfull enough to do such feats. Again, nothing about time travel. And even if such power existed in deltarune then wouldn't you think she would have worded that sentence differently? After all, not all lightners posses determination, not the same type at least, Human and monster determinations were on completely different scales. People are trying too hard to link this game to Undertale even thought the dev himself said he was scared of that. This is not undertale 2: Electric Boogalo, this game is supposed to stand on its own legs.

[@josemembreno3134]

​@@tomaszpawlik5091 queen flat out says All Lightners Possess Determination. this, as well as ralsei taking it Seriously when Berdly is about to open up another fountain, is meant to tell the player that monsters have Far more determination than they did in undertale. i don't recall toby saying he was scared of the game being linked to Undertale. i Do remember him Explicitly Stating On Deltarune's Website that there would be connections to it, though. and that the game was intended for those who have completed Undertale (you yourself even consider Undertale's rules to be consistent in deltarune, in regards to DT). he was happy that Deltarune is being seen as its own thing - because, well, it is. the rules of the world are different, and not everything is connected - these are Also things Toby has said. however, from a story telling perspective, it is a bit silly to ignore all the very obvious parallels and connections the game has to Undertale, right down to its name being an anagram. i highly doubt Toby would flippantly throw the word "determination" out there without considering how that would come across to those playing the game. this aside from the fact that, again, it has been directly stated that there Would be connections, and that we have already seen lines of dialogue that only make sense with the context of Undertale. between the usage of the word "Power", how strongly the concept of determination ties into Undertale, and the fact that Queen's lines regarding determination had such importance placed upon them in the game and not really making much sense from a storytelling perspective if it wasn't supposed to be important, i am still leaning towards the idea of it, well, being important. we only have two chapters out of seven, so we'll just have to see. to be clear, i don't entirely doubt your theory about this simply being Literal determination, or at Least a Different Kind - this is the only instance we have seen DT brought up At All, and as Mystic points out, save points look different and their text boxes make no mention of Determination. Determination could work entirely differently in Deltarune than in Undertale.

[@tomaszpawlik5091]

@@josemembreno3134 i have nothing to argue about with you since you basically agreed with me saying it follows different rules. But i will elaborate with this part about what toby said. "The expectations for my next work would be really high, so high that I knew that no matter what I did, I felt like people would be underwhelmed. If you played "UNDERTALE," I don't think I can make anything that replicates the exact feelings you had then. However, it's possible I can make something else. It's sort of simple but maybe you'll like it." - FAQ Page. "I can make something else" is the key part, most people theorizing about deltarune just treat it like undertale 2, hell type deltarune theories in google and in first like 5 links you will find like 4 of them mentioning chara and or gaster being the mastermind behind everything

[@josemembreno3134]

​@@tomaszpawlik5091 i didn't agree with you, i simply mentioned that it's Totally Possible that it could work differently. we don't really have all the info yet. as i said in my 2nd To Last Paragraph, i'm leaning towards Determination in deltarune as still being a Physical Thing. as for the Toby quote you bring up, you are misinterpreting it. he says he thinks he can't replicate the Exact Feelings Undertale gave, and so when he follows that up by saying "it's possible i can make something else", he means something that isn't Undertale, and so will not give the same feelings. like i said, toby has Literally Said there are connections between Undertale and Deltarune, and that Deltarune was meant for players who have completed Undertale. not sure why you're ignoring that, but here are the quotes in question: From the FAQ: "Q: So there's no connections between the two games? A: It's a different world that might even have different rules. *That doesn't mean there will be no connections at all though."* From the Download Popup: "Please read the information below before downloading the program. - There may be moving or flashing imagery. - *This is intended for people who have completed UNDERTALE."* i'm not saying Deltarune is a sequel - i'm saying it's connected to Undertale. while i think there isn't enough information to say one way or another that Gaster is the "mastermind" behind Deltarune, you can't really deny his involvement in the plot once you know everything about him and what his deal is. i HIGHLY recommend watching "Who Dr. Gaster Is and Why That Matters to Deltarune" - it is an EXCELLENT video that explains everything clearly. lastly, i don't really think that many people still see Deltarune as "Undertale 2". not that i've seen, anyway. certainly, it was that way around the time Chapter 1 came out (despite Toby repeatedly dismissing this), but when Chapter 2 came out, people began treating it as its own thing, which Toby also acknowledged. just because people mention characters that originate from Undertale in their theories does not necessarily mean they see Deltarune as a sequel. there are even plenty of people who are in the Deltarune fandom that have never even played Undertale, strange as that seems!

[@corentinsakwinski4500]

I like the fact that when they exit the dark world in chapter 1, Kris and Suzie are standing in front of a light switch, which is right in the middle of the screen. I mean... Basically telling that they brought back the light into the room

[@gristen]

this is a really great catch. i always thought the flavor text on the first save file about "the light only you can see" would have some major significance down the line but this really confirms it for me. one thing about determination tho is that ive seen a theory floating around that it might actually mean the philosophical concept of "determinism" rather then what it meant in undertale (which was essentially the willpower to persist after death). determination in deltarune has already been shown to be different than undertale since all lightners are capable of it, not just humans. "determinism" is the concept of fate already been predetermined by what has come before (cause-and-effect basically). its often contrasted with "free will", which seems to be a major theme of deltarune in a variety of ways. theres a lot of argument surrounding whether determination and free will can co-exist or if theyre inherently opposite of each other. determinism is also talked a lot about in the "many-worlds interpretation" and considering the fact that deltarune is literally an alternate world from undertale where you travel to different dark worlds... i dont think this will be an unimportant detail. even more the game actually gives us 3 different save files which seem to be exactly identical except for one thing. in one of the chapters if you check asriel's dresser in each of the different save files, the contents will be slightly different from each other... i think its likely that each of the different save files will end up being their own pocket universes where we have to reach a different ending in each to unlock the true ending (which is probably why toby says there will only be one ending). the ending of chapter 2 has already shown us that 3 endings are possible-one where berdly is fine, one where he hurts his arm, and one where he dies. and one last thing... there are 3 titans in ralsei's story. their faces look like save files.

[@yogfan1139]

Actually monsters have "determination" too however having too much such as in Undynes case where determination can be manipulated with emotion can cause monsters who dont have enough physical matter in their bodies to handle that surplus determination and emotion end up melting or ceasing to be. This may also explain the amalgamates and how they are melted together into one from many. The determination to allow those monsters to persist after death NEEDS them to be more than 1 monster as they dont have enough physical matter alone to be able to "live beyond the barrier of death" When monsters "fall down" it mentions that it is a rather sudden and unexplainable condition, meaning that monsters who were "united" could therefore have "issues aging" like with toriel and asgore. There was a line of dialogue somewhere in the game mentioning that when asriel died that they stopped aging as BOSS monsters aged and birthed differently.

[@ihaetschool3361]

i think spamton saying LIGHT neR< has a much easier explanation try to type "hello, world" while holding shift and never letting go. what you get might shock you

[@RottenRoseMotifs]

Have you played Undertale? Flowey himself has LOADS of determination, despite his lack of a soul. So it makes perfect sense that Kris can make a dark fountain after ripping the soul out.

[@nellymurkthewitch]

Actually, Lightbring*er is a slur used by Darkners when referring to Lightners. That's why it was censored in Spamton's dialogue. (It was confirmed by Tony Fox himself, so I know what I'm talking about)

[@auramaster2068]

According to Ralsei it should be true that only Kris can seal the fountains so it would make a lot of sense for Kris to be the Lightbringer. Also I'm pretty sure the red soul is the Player's soul not Kris' soul because Ralsei tells us that the soul contains our will and compassion, I don't think Kris' will or compassion would allow for anything like snowgrave to happen.

[@marctaco2624]

Especially based on their “miserable look” after the fact

[@tuxedeoboi9155]

Don't know if anyone has told you yet but as I was using my Spam plus it has actual big shot dialogue, and the lyrics everyone was trying to decipher at the World Revolving motif was: "Fingers coming for me, answer the phone" "Can't speak till your all alone" "He pulls the strings and makes them ring" "Until your heart gets ripped up"

[@janiradariasmorales7918]

Remember that lightners in general are able to open fountains, that's why Queen needed Noelle to open one, and Berdly almost opened another one before Ralsei stopped him. So, while I don't think Kris is the only one with this ability, they indeed do have the power to close them because of the player soul.

[@BlueCollaredK9]

Idk if this ties in or not: the title Lightbringer was also given to another person from a different source of media. Lucifer the Devil. Which is also interesting cus the Devil is also referred to a "Fallen Angel".

[@misuutira]

Genuinely, this makes a LOT of sense! If we look at it through the lens of one of Deltarune's major themes--Escapism--the SOUL being the container of Light has some pretty major implications. For one, the game attributes "Light" to truth or reality; the "Light World" is the first world that we are introduced to in-game, so consequently, we perceive the "Dark World" as being imaginary, or a fantasy ("and the places that you know seem like fantasy"). When the SOUL seals the fountains at the end of each adventure, it may actually represent the act of breaking out of immersion and letting reality overtake fantasy. But what makes the SOUL the only vessel capable of achieving this? Well, if the SOUL is associated with Light, and Light is linked to Truth, then it may very well be the PLAYER who is the Lightbringer, not Kris (as mentioned in the video, Kris can operate independently of the SOUL). Or, at the very least, Kris is the Lightbringer BECAUSE they are controlled by the Player. The line, "Your very existence goes against our own." that follows King's "Lightbringer" dialogue suddenly seems less vague under this assumption. WE, as the PLAYER, are a foreign entity. Our existence as an observer in the world of Deltarune brings with it the Truth that these characters aren't real, aren't true. They don't actually exist, but we do. But through them acknowledging this detail, we're simultaneously broken out of immersion and pulled back into it. The line between fantasy and reality begins to blend. In the same way that the characters grapple with Escapism, we also have to deal with the prospect that we're an outsider. We're not Kris, and we can't use Kris as a vehicle to project ourselves into the story directly. By separating Kris and the Player, we're forced to carry the truth, "the promise in our hearts," that the world of Deltarune is just a fantasy. Our SOUL shines with Light and Truth because we're the only "real" part of the game.

[@Chmmr]

"There's a light inside your soul that's still shining in the cold" - from the song Don't Forget . . . . (personally i think that specific line has *terrifying* implications for Snowgrave, implying Noelle's job isn't done and our soul will be boosting her power ever higher (like how we can shine our soul on susie/ralsei to power up their magic/healing).... but it also is very relevant here!)

[@joewilliams-un8vu]

lol, I did not know it was this deep. I just thought it was the King being misunderstood thinking that Kris and Susie were there to seal the fountain and get rid of their dark world, bringing more light as the dark world turned back into an unused classroom. But of course, Kris and Susie just want to get home, not destroy their home.

[@altucrix6959]

@MysticSlime in chapter 1 the ending scene when Kris pulls the soul out it glows white for a second almost like a light in his dark room. Or like how the light started off small before covering the whole room when sealing a dark fountain this little detail could actually help this theory be proved

[@altucrix6959]

Also technically if their soul has the light… that would be connected to the “Angels Heaven” in this scenario if everything plays out like I said and mostly like what you said all the theories about having Ralsei being the villain or just having to fight him period could be true. Everything we’ve “known” to believe or could believe immediately just dissipates if this theory is true.

[@ScorpionTamer]

Kris's soul is already a weird topic cause as you showed in the Spamton fight Kris's soul switches to that of a justice soul. Which raises a few questions that I don't think anyone has considered.

[@cryotek3624]

@PioRTek Skiba frisk could only use the yellow soul mode with alphys help using a phone app which kris doesn't get

[@elina-gacha7105]

I can't believe no one brought up the fact that in the song "don't forget" the lyrics literally say " there's a light inside your soul "

[@gabrote42]

6:37 My theory was that when they rip their soul they have a few hours of DT circulating in their body, like blood, or UT's Magic for monsters. Notice that they have to put their soul back immediately after making the fountain, instead of spending a few hours moving around and eating pie

[@tarukariyamikara8908]

Lightbringer is also a title given to Lucifer, the "light bringer" or "morning star". Possibly an interesting connection to Paradise Lost, with Kris, the light bringer, being cast down into the dark world? They are fighting the Angel's Heaven, after all, and a big part of Paradise Lost is the fact that Lucifer's rebellion is futile since god is all powerful. But in Paradise Lost, the claim is that God does not stop Lucifer specifically because he wants to preserve humanity's free will to choose evil, but that seems contradictory both in the story, and what deltarune is going for (unless, the weird/genocide route?)

[@friendlinessclaritin]

Another thing to add is, as you brought up, the save buttons always mention determination in Undertale. Determination is what relates to the SOUL in that game. In Deltarune, however, the save button almost ALWAYS mentions power, meaning that could be the SOUL's function in this game.

[@emidemi7211]

I think the < thing with Spamton might just be a "typo" of sorts. < is what you get when you type Shift+, and the way that the R before it is also capitalized would support this. That's how I read that line personally. (Also the cursor is usually denoted as a >)

[@AlphaOblivion7]

I don't know how I feel about the Lightbringer thing (especially re: Spamton), but intentional or not I think it was a pretty big hint. The latter half of this video completely changed how I see the lore

[@YouMayKnowMeAsNate]

There’s a surprising amount of evidence for this, wow

[@PabliscoRabisco]

One thing i noticed during the Spamton live, is that the guy doing the Spamton introduces himself as "Spamton A Spamton", but during Chapter 2, when we meet Spamton, he introduces himself as "Spamton G Spamton", i feel that there's something to it...

[@pustota7254]

This just means THERE IS A FLAMING TON OF SPAMTON. Spamton ton...

[@numansadik]

Well, you pointed out some important things, but according to Alphys's researches from the world of undertale, human souls must contain determination in them, otherwise Alphys couldn't extract determination from them. But i think the red soul leaks some determination into kris. That way they can open a dark fountain without their soul.

[@james_k9654]

I'd like to think that the soul has a certain amount of DT itself as a sort of secondary attribute, which is why the soul appears red instead of white as there's more red contributing to the white, and also why the soul only turns yellow in the Spamton NEO fights as a means of self-preservation through determination instead of a yellow soul in Undertale representing justice

[@karvkkanyenation]

I think considering that we, the player in deltarune, are almost like an external force that controls Kris, and Kris acts on their own without the player in control, I think the idea that the player is acting as "The Lightbringer" whilst Kris is doing the opposite by creating a fountain (?)

[@authorlacey]

It's a very simple piece of evidence, but it really works to fit a lot of the lore together. Great theory my man!

[@Yorancy]

Oh God that's actually an amazing theory! It makes me wonder, tho, what would happen if the player no longer "possessed" Kris and started to possess the vessel? You could see that in Undertale, it's said that HUMANS have Determination, it's not exclusive to Frisk. But Frisk and Kris both have their own stories, even if we didn't see it, so what if a vessel is just that, a vessel? Would it have determination? What would happen to a body with no Determination being filled with light?

[@CreativelyJake]

all the save points do talk about light i will say though, red was never linked with determination in the first place so. 6:14 i think thats an extremely reasonable claim, tbh thats kinda what i just naturally thought without even theorizing? i feel like i just skimmed over it cus i was like "yeah, we need the soul to bring light to the fountains" heck we even have "theres a light inside your soul, thats still shining in the cold"

[@Chaotic_Soul_]

He’s like Flowey without a soul

[@solairedude7119]

This makes me wonder if Kris had no soul like Flowey and was injected with determination cuz how else would they do the things they do without the player soul. Unless they had a soul at one point and lost it, but still had determination.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Maybe that was Gaster's experiment. To inject a human without a soul some determination and see what happens.

[@douglascline9517]

Gonna expand on this Theory with another, which might explain why Kris fears the Bunker. In Undertale we found out that Gaster has been using Deceased Monsters for Determination revivals. Which in turn created aligmations. Undyne in the Genocide Route also uses this Determination shot experiment to keep their body alive. What if... Gaster who traveled into Deltatune continued this experiment on a Human whose orginal soul was removed for one full of Light. And in order to pull it off, Gaster used the same experiment that was "successful" on Monsters as it would be even more effective for a Human. This also may explain what Player soul, the one we were filling into a blank body, was Kris but Kris has his own story/life/ and personality. Inheriting this as the player takes control of Aligmation of the former Kris. When did this happen? I believe we also have an idea of the day happen, during a snowstorm were Kris and December fell into the Bunker. This my theory on what's coming up for Chapter 3 - 5 regarding Soul lore and Gasters plan to use Light and Determination to return to Undertales universe by clearing through the Dark World through Kris.

[@douglascline9517]

One other thing to note about the snow storm and Bunker theory. In Undertale we were introduced to Sans in a snowy forest. With the iconic shadowy hand shake. Toby loves doing parallels in the beginning of his games with the end. But what if this scene was preluding to Kris and December's encounter with Gaster in the Snowy Forest by the Bunker. Lot of parallels that were easy to miss from the way things are being set up for December's disappearance.

[@randomlyannoying]

Wasn't Alphys the one to make the amalgamates? And I am pretty sure it was never said that Undyne took determination

[@douglascline9517]

@@randomlyannoying we really don't know if the Alagimations were her doing due to everyone forgetting about Gaster when he fell into the core. In fact the Determination experiments were going on long before Alphys became the Royal Scientists as indicated by the Gaster Followers. Also regarding Undyne, we can see that the Determination was causing her to melt down into an Algimation through the end of her fight. And Monsters naturally cannot create Determination in their bodies. So leaves lot to speculate.

[@losgabuzzino9253]

@@douglascline9517 It specifies Undyne was reformed by her own will when you check her

[@marctaco2624]

@@douglascline9517 Alphys said herself that she took her patients’ bodies in and tried to revive them, and after seeing what her experiments did to them, locked them away and hid from the world. And Undyne stayed alive through her own determination, not Alphy’s, as all monsters have a small amount of it, it is just that humans are a stronger source and are thus better at holding and using it.

[@The_One_In_Black]

I'm glad you brought up the soul being separate from Kris, because my reaction watching this was that the Soul was the Lightbringer. That's especially in contrast to the theories about Kris being the Knight.

[@SiffingFrinMaxer]

On the topic of the King, has anyone ever talked about the attack where King moves the arena? There's a red soul containing a hollow white soul which is used to mark where the arena will move, and I feel like that's kinda important, considering Kris's soul clearly isn't in the best state what with how they're *barely* alive when without our soul.

[@pleasebcool2006]

Sounds good but I wonder why Spamton would want Kris' [Heart Shaped Object]

[@suspicioususer]

Can't believe Linkara is in this game

[@dev_the_gamer593]

This theory is so convincing that I'm half expecting Toby to pull a Alex Hirsch on us. If you don't know what exactly I'm talking about I'm referring to the time when someone made a theory about gravity falls where Stan has a lost twin who wrote the journals, this ended up being true. Alex Hirsch (the creator of gravity falls) not liking that his shows big twist got figured out, made a fake leak where it shows mcgucket with 6 fingers writing the journals and paired it along with a real leak. Once the true part of the leak was proven to be true in a later episode the leak started to gains lots of attention removing all the attention from the theory. to pour fuel on the flames Alex Hirsch tweeted "I'm so mad" and then later deleted it making it seam as though this leak was even more confirmed to be true then it already was.

[@shirakotakamotogd]

6:15 this makes sense because when fighting regular Spamton, he states that “YOU'VE GOT THE [[LIGHT.]] WHY DON'T YOU [[Show it off?]]”

[@tsawy6]

Hmm, in the vein of moving around without a soul using DT, note that this is precisely what DT did to Flowey

[@reflection458]

Two things. A: Lightbringer if I am not mistaken has ties to lucifer, which relates to the dreemurrs from what I remember, at least from undertale. B: Determination, while a part of human souls, at least for undertale, is also something that can exist physically, so kris' body having it, or at least some makes a decent amount of sense, and is not a entirely new subject.

[@reflection458]

And while on a underelated note, the save points could still be linked to determination. This is due to the fountains requiring determination, and the saves EXCLUSIVELY appearing in the dark world.

[@cy-bernet-ix]

oh, and a more obvious example of the Soul representing light: before spamtons fight in the alley, he says "youve got the light, why dont you show it off?" immediately before your soul appears

[@NorthernWind0]

This is going to be a big no from me. Determination definitely stems from the SOUL, though Kris has some of their own. We know SAVE/LOADing is associated with Determination still due to what happens near the end of Chapter 2, where a SAVE point says "You are filled with a certain power." and the Queen immediately afterward mentions Determination. We know that Determination still gives us control over those timelines, because we are able to Copy, Erase and control the events that happen within the timeline, minus what Kris takes from us. I view our relationship with Kris as similar to our relationship with Flowey at this point, pre pacifist-ending. They're the only other one that can force events to happen directly. They're the only one who can change the course of the future that isn't us.

[@evelyn4539]

Spamton describes kris as “a heart on a chain” so it seems from this that the soul belongs to kris otherwise it would be the heart keeping kris on a chain and kris having the dt to make a fountain could be that some dt is still in their bloodstream for a brief time allowing them to have the dt to make a dark fountain and then get back to their soul which is like 3 ft from them before they run out of it

[@stitchesplush]

Maybe that's why any Lightner can open a fountain, yet only Kris can seal them.

[@batsnake__113]

"YOU´RE A LIGHT BRINGER AREN'T YOU?" "YOU HAVE THE [Light]"

[@waalew5336]

Back in Chapter 1, right before Susie "joins" the party as an autofighter, Ralsei outright states to Susie that "only Kris can seal the DARK FOUNTAIN". So this further plays into Kris, or rather the Red SOUL within them, being the lone "Lightbringer". Regarding the human body being the container of DT rather than the SOUL, it's actually _proven_ by Undertale, not _contradicted._ Look no further than Flowey. Flowey has no soul, yet the determination coursing through his body allows him to talk and move out of sheer willpower. It even let him come back from death until Frisk showed up with more DT in their body than he had in his own vessel. It may be possible that human souls simply "soak up" some of the natural DT within their host's body instead of being the source. All in all, really good theory! Can't wait to see more as new info pops up!

[@Foober21]

One thing that supports your soul theory is that with light, dark can't be made, but in the dark that is all there can be or some deep shit like that

[@ultra824]

i like this theory and i expect that it's at least partially correct but i would point out that it's not known if the red soul was present prior to the events of the game or not. the opening gaster sequence could be the soul arriving in the world but it could also be forging a connection between the soul and the player (and/or whatever entity the player represents). if the soul only arrived in universe at the beginning of the game, how did kris survive without a soul for so long? plus the description of the cage in the wagon suggests that using it to trap their soul (or at least *a* soul) is something kris has been doing for a while. it *probably* started sometime after asriel left town because it'd be pretty hard to hide that from him while sharing a bedroom (also, ariel leaving seems to have caused a substantial amount of distress in kris which could easily manifest in self-destructive behavior)

[@pairsrana7971]

1:34 as Kris is the only one talking at this point, it makes sense that the king wouldn't tell someone to shut up if they weren't talking, which is why this is aimed specifically at them. 1:59 seeing this made me realise that this isn't important to the lore at all. So, the king calls Kris light bringer is because they are trying to close the dark fountain. If you get rid of the dark, there is only light. So the term: light bringer. Other characters don't say this because they don't know what the lightners are trying to do, they are just following orders. Plus nobody other than lancer really says anything in general, so yeah.

[@andreibalaban3643]

Disagree, lightbringer is literally a term for satan, it wouldn't have been used if it didn't have any symbolic meaning

[@fridaykitty]

While it may not apply to Deltarune, in Undertale it's specifically mentioned that Dr. Alphys extracted DT "from the human SOULs", but the thing is, it's also mentioned that monsters can't handle high concentrations of DT specifically because their bodies "don't have enough physical matter"... Maybe the soul is the SOURCE of DT but the vessel needs enough physical matter for it to "flow" through and keep alive, and when the vessel loses its soul, the determination contained within that vessel begins to fade away? It would mean Kris would have enough DT lingering in their body to go and do.... Kris stuff, before needing to shove their soul back in. It's like your heart stopping: you're still alive, but your blood can't flow, and you'd need to start your heart again to keep your blood flowing. Replace blood with DT and heart with SOUL and it's basically my idea haha

[@sagoot]

Spamton also says: "You've got the [light] why don't you [show it off]"

[@Tatsu0ni]

This goes hard with the end credits song lyrics

[@rawquikh0ney710]

Kris in chapter 3 in every situation with his face like "I want to cease to exist"

[@luckytrap897]

I think its entirely possible that lightbringer is a reference to Lucifer. The king sees the lightners as evil, and Kris as the leader (since Kris is the one who commands Acting in chapter one), I don't see how king would know Kris can close fountains since they hadn't actually done it yet, same goes for spamton since spamton wasnt around for the closing of the first fountain

[@luiss428]

a rule in writing a research paper is to introduce the full word (lightbringer) then enclose its abbeviation in parentheses next to it. after which, you can use the abbreviated form whenever you want. you'd think ralsei wouldve called us that right? anyway, this isnt a formal paper in anyway, but it follows in writing that lightbringer should have been mentioned in at least one other instance before king mentioned it. its obvious but i just wanted to support this claim that this was done deliberately lol

[@lightningbolt95]

theres actually so much reference to "light" and "shining" in deltarune that theres probably alot of merit to this theory, also i noticed you didnt mention how ralsei tells susie that only kris can close the fountains.

[@tictacfan9515]

Not to mention the phrase in the credits: "there's a light inside your soul"

[@evidence2839]

There's a light inside your soul That's still shining in the cold

[@beyondunderstanding6341]

Your theory is wonderful and I wanted to expand on it… First off, did ever notice how in the Deltarune game over screen, the heart breaks? If you choose to quit, it states "then the world was covered in darkness", (most likely because the SOUL no longer exists) supporting your claim that the SOUL has the light. This is different from Undertale's game over, as your determination does not give you the option to quit. If Deltarune's idea of the SOUL was similar to Undertale's, shouldn't that result in both games having similar game over screens? Secondly, anyone notice how Kris (without the SOUL) and Flowey are quite similar? If your idea that Kris' body has DETERMINATION holds true, it connects the dots between both Kris' and Flowey's (who both don't have souls) behavior: their determination alone leaves them in both an emotionless/creepy and potentially violent state.

[@marpie0076]

Wait, I always thought that Kris has a soul even when the player doesn't control them. Like, they were alive before the game, so they should have one

[@purpledshadow]

That’s what I thought too. Maybe the player’s (the red soul) overpowers kris’s soul? Or maybe it just completely destroyed it so now kris needs the red soul to survive?? I can imagine their actual soul before the game being perseverance (purple) which would be a bit similar to determination.

[@marpie0076]

@@purpledshadow idk

[@MysticSlime]

I do believe Kris had a soul before the game started, but the red soul only came into the picture at the beginning of Chapter 1 if it represents the player

[@marpie0076]

@@MysticSlime yeah, of course, but after Kris ripped out the red soul they should still have their original one (sorry if I wrote something weirdly but English is not my first language)

[@plates7245]

My theory is that Kris has a monsters soul rather than a humans. The theory came to mind with the yellow soul upgrade and how it charges into a white soul. Also Kris using Asgore's eye sparkle in chapter 1. Why would they have it? No idea.

[@BossKnight]

6:37 determination is shown in undertale to not need a soul like with undyne and the amalgamates, the souls most likely work the same as they ARE from the same idea, deltarune came first and undertale was a idea branching off it that gained popularity

[@Cobalt_Gemini]

Okay, time to put my hat into the ring. So, after taking in this theory and thinking about it, I was reminded of something I thought about a while ago, and just realized something about it. So, those save points, right? In Undertale, they always referenced Determination, but in Deltarune, they don't. Now, the Deltarune save points always reference "light" or "shining", and that could refer to the Soul's light, as you brought up in the video, but to me, it always seemed like they were trying REALLY hard not to bring up Determination, trying to keep Deltarune away from all of the that "Undertale" stuff. If anything, I thought, if Determination were to finally be brought up in Deltarune, it'd be right at the end of Deltarune's story, a cheeky nod to its predecessor. And I'm sure that I wasn't the only person who was thinking that. And yet, here we are, not even half way through this new story, and we have Queen... who just, almost causally, brings up Determination, and what it can do. The moment that happened, everyone freaked out, and started questioning what this really meant for Deltarune. But now... with the mention of the "lightbringer" line, something that was there the whole time, and we only now just started to question it, I am starting to wonder... were we meant to know about Determination in Deltarune. Or about the "lightbringer". I mean, I know that Toby, as the writer, certainly meant for us to know. He deliberately wrote in "Determination". But I am talking about the story itself, or to make more sense of that, the entity that is pulling the strings behind the scenes (that rhymed. Also, this could be Gaster, the Angel, who know?). Again, the games to to be trying very hard not to bring up Determiation. And yet, Queen talks about it like its nothing (well, she speaks about it like it is important, but she doesn't pretend its a big secret). And now lets tie this back to the phrase "lightbringer". You brought up that Spamtom MAY have attempted to call Kris "lightbringer", just like King, but something stopped him... Here's the question, why? Why stop Spamton from saying lightbringer, but not KIng. One idea I had was that Spamton is corrupted, so he has no... lets say, "defense for his coding", like a firewall, so controlling what he says is easy, hence his odd dialogue. But how King, this is not true. However, I have a different idea: Whoever is in control of Spamton (lets assume for now it is Gaster, since that is were the evidence is pointing anyways), simply does not want us to know this information, about "Determination" or the "lightbringer". But the Knight doesn't have this same care for hiding this information, since he told King and Queen about it. And well, King accidently used the phrase lightbringer, but no noticed (including us, apparently, and maybe it wasn't that much of an accident). Meanwhile, Queen doesn't know the definition of the word "secret", figuratively speaking, so she makes no attempt to hide it. And lets be honest, Queen has been the most open character in Deltarune so far. The only reasons she would not bring something important up is because she doesn't know about it (she admits this herself after Ralsie reveals the Titans to everyone), or its just not relevant in the moment. For a while now, I've stopped believing that Gaster could be the Knight. I mean, I recognize it could still possible, but I feel it is unlikely. I even think that Gaster is a possible candidate for not the final boss, but the final SECRET boss, the secret boss of Chapter 7, who you can only face if you've beaten every other secret boss, like Jevil and Spamton. (I have one other candidate for this in mind, but it is irrelevant to my comment here.) I mean, the way the Darkners speak about the Kinght, who has been in contact with King and Queen, is different to how they talk about the mysterious person is was in contact with Jevil and Spamton. Like, they aren't the same, even disconnected. But this idea of those who know what really going on, but have different feelings about how secret it should be, this not only might be the final thing to convince me that Gaster and the Knight are not the same being, but that they aren't even on the same side. Well, maybe they were at first, in that, the Knight was also a puppet of Gaster, like Jevil and Spamton, even Kris, but he realized what was going on, and started acting of his own will. There is so much to think about in concerns to this idea, but most importantly, that the Kinght has something that Spamton and Kris don't: Freedom. And that he knows this vital information, but does not wish to keep it from us, could be a showcase of this freedom. Maybe, he even revealed this to King and Queen deliberately to try to make us realize what is going on, without directly falling under the crosshairs of Gaster.

[@wscamel226]

6:37 - well if Jaru is right, there might be another soul in Kris'es body that have just enough determination to make s dsrk world

[@batsnake__113]

I always constantly point out in stuff like this the instance in chp 1 where Ralsei says "Only Kris can seal the fountain" after the first time Susie joined the party.

[@bighurtrky]

The determination soul that we control is our soul while Krises real soul could be the justice soul seen in the neo spamtan fight, but thats probably just a theory but then Again Kris is just a vessel so who knows

[@nellymurkthewitch]

A good theory though. Also, the fandom's perception of SOULS and DETERMINATION is mainly a result of mandela effect and fanon. In the game it hasn't actually been said if the red soul's trait is determination. Neither is determination's color red. Also, the whole metaphysics of DT is quite different from undertale, so we don't know about soul's properties for sure yet.

[@togekiss09]

I don't think determination in this game has anything to do with any sort of magical power or anything like that, but rather is just sheer will, Kris was able to make a new fountain because they WANTED to make one so bad, that's what queen was taking about, only the ones who truly wish to make a dark fountain, only the ones determinated enough, are the one who can make one Edit: accidentally said "he"

[@Gnidel]

I don't think laws of physics differ between Undertale and Delrarune, so I think it's both.

[@AndrewS-vu4ji]

I believe Ralsei states that Kris is the only one able to close dark fountains.

[@TrifectShow]

Another piece of dialog I thought could be interesting is when Susie calls Kris the "school zombie" Is it possible Kris is a reanimated corpse? Aka a zombie. Making Kris a literal monster... This maybe could explain why only Kris can seal fountains. And why Kris is tone deaf to their piano playing. Because their body isn't working as it should. By the way, Don't Forget says "there's a light inside [their] soul..."

[@InternetFanatic]

There’s True Lab Entries in Undertale that implies that all Humans like Kris have Determination and I have this idea that we don’t actually have Determination or that we less Determination than Kris and Susie and that we only have powers like this because we control Kris I imagined Kris having glowing the White Bright Lights (Deltarune) and Gold Determination (Undertale) Save Points glowing in their eyes as well having the Gold Locket on them glowing as Golden Flowers are going around them in the wind and their wearing a a Flowercrown using the colors in Asgore’s Flower Shop and Red Color as well for the flowers Kris-The Knight of Lights

[@ajackson2108]

Re: DT and souls, Flowey has no soul (let alone a red one) and has DT and the ability to reset. Undyne presumably has a normal white monster soul and has DT. The amalgamates were injected with DT but there’s no mention of them being given a red soul. It would make complete sense that determination could exist within someone’s body rather than specifically within a red soul.

[@outlier9099]

ItS him, THE LIGHTBRINGER *Que kris running at the speed of light directly towards the camera*

[@huntertheheavy]

Regarding spamton's speech, may i just reminds that [Square Backets] are used to paraphrase in quotes. Essentially censoring the original speech and adding your own dialogue ontop of it