Joel Tells Ellie The Truth... | The Last of Us Part II

Joel Tells Ellie The Truth... | The Last of Us Part II #shorts
#thelastofus #tlou #thelastofuspart2 #tlou2 #thelastofushbo

[@RoykONizE]

He would rather live in that world with her than to be without her

[@bbwng54]

Like a parent

[@tymacdougall3140]

Uh no shit

[@notmeval7853]

It breaks me 😭 Joel was such a good father

[@andreww98]

@@tymacdougall3140ratio

[@pokolla1875]

@@tymacdougall3140 Shut the fuck up and let this guy comment, god forsake.

[@Masher221]

He just didn't wanted to lose another precious thing in his life she reminded him so much of his daugther that's why He saved her He saw her almost as his daughter and that's very sad tbh

[@frankopavia2199]

Couldn’t have said it any better

[@mr_samuraix]

It was like God gave him another chance to spend time with his daughter again, but in the end, his selfishness robbed Ellie's choices.

[@gxwild5]

​@mr_samurai4987 The doctors didn't ask her if she was willing to give up her life.

[@fucknames]

@@mr_samuraixI mean I wouldn’t risk it especially bc most the people at firefly weren’t good doctors lmao

[@kodi2329]

Not almost, she was his daughter. You don't need adoption papers to know a good parent

[@amevlia]

It's sad to remember Joel died thinking Ellie hated him. Edit: I ain't changing my ways, this is the power of making people offended for fun. I have completely 100% both games (and their remakes), and i have guided new players into the games and helped them when they needed it Holy hell how did this grow so much lmao

[@FeiythHD]

He never thought of ellie hating him Ellie was mean or not mean but that didnt make joel think that ellie hated him

[@Everyones_fav_ginger]

What’s sad is the ending of Joel and Ellie’s last conversation where she said “I will see you around,” I cried that scene saying no you won’t

[@colemanpatterson1756]

@@Everyones_fav_gingershe didn’t care about him he gave her Everything only for her to take it for granted like all women

[@Alcatonic]

​@@colemanpatterson1756😑

[@muhammadyusufabrahams2154]

​@@colemanpatterson1756😑

[@bengarcia5330]

I like how everyone assumed the vaccine had a 100% success rate and it would have worked

[@jonhg92]

Well their world is rather grim so one girls life for a chance at a vaccine seems like a "for the greater good" type of thing

[@killerghost5202]

fr, and she was crying like she lost someone from her family, like wtf

[@Whateverisayfax]

@@killerghost5202 u gotta be sped or jus didnt pay attention to the game at all she had a right to be mad... like what

[@aidentheorc2124]

It was a long shot but you have to remember that world is absolute hell on earth. I think Joel was justified as a father but Ellie and the fireflies aren’t wrong for wanting to take the shot for a vaccine.

[@kamakazeyt]

@@WhateverisayfaxThe chance Ellie could’ve led to a cure is fucking minuscule. This is kinda obvious considering the fact that a vaccine with this small amount of people working on it could take decades upon decades to develop.

[@CallmeLux1077]

He didn’t want to lose another Sarah

[@notmeval7853]

He didn’t want to lose another daughter 😭

[@bizenebegerizekal1]

this hurt me a lot

[@habzplayz]

Anna is eille mum but joel daughter is surah eille and joel just partners

[@notmeval7853]

@@habzplayz I think you’re missing the point here

[@despro_]

He didn’t want to lose Ellie

[@inubashiri6815]

"So I stopped them" Makes me sad to remember that, Joel almost died there, he risked his life to save her loved one (Ellie, which is like a daughter for him), how he remembers that day like a sad one, how you can feel his feelings through his voice is just like, man.. this moment destroyed me.

[@kermit._.9432]

Joel went against the world for her and she couldn’t even avenge him, that’s sad

[@molequedaora]

Ellie knew it wasn't worth it anymore. She only tried again because she couldn't let go and the PTSD was destroying her life.

[@will.amartinnn]

you missed the entire point of the story

[@atticusblack652]

I wanted her to but Abby wasn’t even a bad person she was literally avenging her father.

[@kaiiiiops5981]

i'm pretty sure she did

[@MurlokDredger]

​@@Spookysnake"Everyone she cared about is dead, but she survived so she'll have a happy life" this is hella dumb. All Ellie did was create another version of herself in Abby. By the end, they're both completely broken and have lost everything. Ellie just giving up right at the last second, while I understand what the devs were trying to achieve, was just lazy writing and a cop out ending.

[@Chimera_0990tfr]

Then she went on to kill hundreds (leaving the only b#itch that killed joel) in the name of vengeance. How ironic is that

[@I_Am_Him420]

Think of it this way Abby took the few ppl dear to ellie and ellie took everyone dear to abby

[@davidrea6310]

@@I_Am_Him420She forgave Abby, because she wasn’t allowed to forgive Joel. It’s just the subtlety a good story telling. Joel is not the good guy in the series. He’s not even close.

[@I_Am_Him420]

@@davidrea6310 never said he was your jus reachin

[@ethanethanethan5312]

If you want some really good reasoning on the intricacies of those choices there’s a channel called DJ Peach Cobbler who made an entire video all about TLOU2’s ending.

[@Whateverisayfax]

u js didint understand the games premise gang

[@John_MacTavish141]

I be sad every time when ı see Joel's face in that scene.😞

[@jivey555]

that look on joel’s face after ellie said that just looks so heart breaking

[@sully47]

I hated that ellie let Abby go

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

Man you know revenge IS bad I realized this after ending countless of lives

[@Donuttronv]

@@ghostwhencodghosts9114Uhm in the game I hope

[@idiotwithagun743]

​@@ghostwhencodghosts9114in the game?💀

[@ibonnieth2306]

Wish they gave you an option for the player and each option played out a different story.

[@Goose_that_knows_no_peace]

@@ibonnieth2306SAME!!

[@user-xw6dt6we5x]

Joel would do anything for Ellie ❤

[@nebulaoz]

he would DIE for her :,)

[@Johnny_edits398]

Poor Sarah :(

[@sinongaba]

​@@Johnny_edits398tbf sarah was dead. He can't lose another.

[@Urfavswiftie5]

Same ngl

[@Whozito]

would've

[@devildaddy_666]

Poor Joel, that shows how much he started to love her and care for her

[@PronounHisMajesty]

I remember saving Ellie from that Winter Chapter and I when Joel saw Ellie he said "Babygirl" and I knew that she wasn't just cargo anymore, she was his daughter 💔 Edit: Might have been when Joel saved her with Tommy's help but regardless, I'm biased because I played as Joel. I know he damned humanity but she was all he had left. I couldn't imagine sacrificing my daughter. In this world there are protecters and the protected.

[@SarCastleDoesntExist]

no you were right it was in the winter chapter with david.

[@ogiebear8484]

He didn’t damn humanity, less than a 1% chance the vaccine would’ve worked.

[@onionjuiceinc.7702]

Nah he didn't damn humanity be sure he gave her a fighting chance and the opportunity to spread the immune gene rather than destroying it completely. If it was done once then it can be done again which means in time a cure can be developed in one of the growing survivor communities and humanity will actually have a fighting chance. A vaccine wouldn't have worked because it's not a virus and those people would've destroyed the only hope humanity had of recovering.

[@KoopaKombat]

They don't even know if the vaccine would have worked so he might not have damned humanity

[@deadnats5362]

Even though joel had done alot of bad things at least he knows he is accountable an reasonable for the things he has done Joel has a heart for the people he cares for. Joel had the strongest will to make the hardest choices. This game always makes me realize even through all the bad things we do as humans, we will get our hands badly dirty to protect the ones we care an love to make things good.

[@scaramouche.-.]

This was so emotional… to watch and it’s devastating to see Joel thinking Ellie hated him I wish he didn’t die.

[@stephanielesage659]

if i was ellie i would have killed abby debla in the most horrible ways possible i miss joel a lot abby has still lost a lot of all her friends except lev she won't be able to live with her for a very long time abby deserved to die on this beach

[@peacecore1839]

same once I knew he died I wasn't buying the game anymore just been playing the first. they hype about how Joel was going to be meaner and badass but just to kill him right in the very beginning 🙄 they let me down. I really wish they would make a version of the game where he lived and somehow Eli died or some else happened

[@Dombomb55]

I think in an alternate timeline if the fireflies were upfront with young Ellie and told her she would die if they did the operation she would have made the choice to sacrifice herself but waited for Joel to wake up to say her goodbyes and after an argument and him trying to make her choose to live he’d begrudgingly let her make the choice to sacrifice herself

[@Mr_Coward1919]

Saying "I stopped them" is putting it pretty lightly

[@samuraigames4125]

"If somehow the lord would give me a second chance at that moment, I would do it, all over again" -joel miller, a legend, one of the best characters in video game history. And they did him dirty with that death

[@Svea_LifeGuards]

Joel was not the good guy in the story; it's even admitted to when young Ellie says, "How did you know it was an ambush?" Joel replies, "I've been on both sides." In the first game, it's implied that he did terrible things before meeting Ellie. The whole reason why Abby killed him is because Joel killed her father, Dr. Anderson, and Dr. Anderson was the only person who could carry out the cure. He doomed the rest of humanity for one person. The beauty of the writing in these games is that if you look at the story from Joel's perspective, saving Ellie seems like the right thing to do. But if you look at it from everyone else's perspective, it's the terrible thing to do.

[@Truck-kun3012]

@@Svea_LifeGuardsTbh Joel was a bad person before meeting Ellie but you mean to tell me that a SINGLE sample literally a single sample would’ve worked to make the vaccine? I takes so many months or even years to make a vaccine! Just take Covid for example I mean it had no vaccine until the third or fourth year. I think saving Ellie was a good choice considering if he didn’t the vaccine still wouldn’t be created with just one test subject and Ellie still would’ve died.

[@Svea_LifeGuards]

@@Truck-kun3012 understand your perspective, but Joel's decision to kill Dr. Anderson, probably one of the few remaining pri infection surgeons, and the only one actively working on a cure, raises questions. If he had simply taken Ellie, I might not view Joel as an evil person. However, the fact that he killed someone who was genuinely trying to develop a cure for the fungus for his own personal benefit seems selfish.

[@Truck-kun3012]

@@Svea_LifeGuards but it still would’ve been a dead game. I won’t defend Joel for killing a doctor who just wants to create a better life for others but even if he was able to create a vaccine it would be very much limited. This leads to more deaths as people would kill for the vaccine and it will cause a greater danger. Just imagining yourself In Joel’s place, we ain’t no hero , I mean if it were me I wouldn’t give a damn care about the world if my sister whom I love more than anyone would have to die. As said, “a hero would sacrifice you for the world but a villain would sacrifice the world for you”, everyone is selfish in some kind of way. It’s just a part of human nature so it kind of makes sense that he saves Ellie as that is what a lot of people would do irl in his place too. But I do agree with your saying too. Thanks for your time reading this hell of a long paragraph!(btw I meant “in some kind of way humans are selfish” as people would always have at least abit of guilt for sacrificing their loved ones. Some may choose to be selfish or some may have had no other option. Have a good day/afternoon/ night)

[@Svea_LifeGuards]

@@Truck-kun3012 no problem with the long comment by the way do you have Xbox.

[@YourLocalDummy21]

Ellie : Dont you fucking touch me. *A golf club in the head later* Ellie : I want to be in your arms again joel. *Play guitar cuz why not*

[@lukeplaysgames20]

Bro did you even pay attention to the story

[@YourLocalDummy21]

@@lukeplaysgames20 Bro hated joel because she was going on her existantial crisis and start to get more aggresive to joel, one day joel became softer after having ellie and decided to help someone, that someone was the doctor's daughter who died in the hospital, she wanted revenge, she killed joel, and ellie want revenge too, shitty ass game, W graphics

[@Some_S7IC]

It's funny to think that once Druckman had full creative control he retconned all the stuff about the Fireflies being incompetent and failing plenty of prior vaccine surgeries from the og ps3 game.

[@XWanderingGhostX]

It's sad to think that Joel did so much for her and she didn't appreciate it Untill he was gone. Wow this is alot more than I usually get

[@Jellobeam32991]

I cry every singel time i see his face in that scene😢😕😔

[@derpy_liongames2130]

"If i had lost you, i would've lost myself."

[@dmariseagraves9104]

one of the best story games of all time idgaf

[@WildChild.1]

Its sad that Ellie hated Joel for stopping them from killing her when she could’ve just thought that it could’ve not worked and Ellie was like a daughter to joel and didn’t want to lose her

[@sinongaba]

She understands. She was just talking out of her pride. I'm sure she understands that Joel didn't want to lose her. I think she said something to Abby like "he did what he did to save me" and that's what a lot of fans forget. She didn't really hate Joel. Maybe she also felt guilty that she lived while she could've been the cure.

[@theaddictedgamer2222]

@@sinongabaagain people be complaining about why Ellie is being a bitch in this game with Joel, but forgets the ending of the first game. When they reach Jackson sue confronts him about the lie saying she lost friends to the disease. Riley, Tess and Sam. She’s suffering from survivors guilt and just wanted her life to mean something. “After all we been through, it can’t be for nothing” she was emotionally wrecked and Joel admits to Tommy to emotionally manipulating her into believing her immunity didn’t mean jack squat. It was for good reason as he knew her knowing the truth would make her go into a depressive spiral.

[@sinongaba]

@@theaddictedgamer2222 yea and that's why i think they did good at showing her depth as a human. She felt sadness when she lost her friends, guilt when she lived because she could've been the cure and guilt when she isn't thinking about Joel, happiness because she has a family that she never had with Joel and others and she experienced "life", anger because they killed her father. She's actually a very relatable character because that's how humans react when those kinds of things happen. She's not a boring revenge type character just like how a lot of people are talking about. Joel is a well written character too. When we've been through a lot of sh*t, then we find someone we care of in the middle of hopelessness, for sure anyone would do anything not to lose that person (ellie in his case). And he's wrong in the eyes of many, but if saving everyone means losing the only one we care about, who gives a sh*t about everyone? Especially if they're the same people who would be trying to kill you to survive, and the vaccine is not guaranteed to work anyway. They're both right and wrong and that's the truth about a lot of us. Even Tommy said he'd take it to the grave if he had to. People like the idea of being a hero, but when it comes to sacrificing what we love, we'd surely hesitate to do what's right. Arthur Morgan and Joel are two of the most well written characters imo, because they're not entirely evil or good, but because their flaws are relatable.

[@dhiafhfkihhacen2881]

​@@sinongaba extremely well written

[@thyprodigymasterofthievery4295]

@@dhiafhfkihhacen2881game is overhated imo

[@hazardouslydumb9639]

Joel wasn't the good guy. He was a Great Dad.

[@sumbum117]

I love how she goes on a revenge kick except she forgets to take revenge on the person that actually killed him

[@Fangtorn]

Everyone Ellie kills in the game, with the exception of the NPCs while under the player's control, either attack her first or force her to kill them in self-defense. She does not kill anyone for revenge or in cold blood, with the caveat that her obsession with Abby puts her in those situations. She does not kill Abby because she is not a murderer and carrying the burden of more violence and guilt would not bring Joel back.

[@mal_thespygirl]

⚠️ Spoilers ⚠️ Context: Joel (The guy) has been surviving the zombie apocalypse with Ellie (The Girl) since she was 14. In the first game you play as Joel and his trying to get young Ellie to a group called the fireflies because when Ellie got bitten by infected she didn’t turn. A year goes by in the game and they’ve been through hell and at the end they find the fireflies. Although, Joel gets informed that Ellie would have to die for them to make a cure. Joel in the beginning of the game first didn’t like Ellie because she reminded him of his daughter who died when the outbreak started (In the beginning of the game), but grew to love her as his second daughter. Joel killed basically the whole hospital with all the fireflies in it, and got Ellie to safety while she was still unconscious. Once she woke up, Joel lied to her about what happened and Ellie believed him. 4 years later (where this scene takes place) Ellie gets the sense Joel is hiding something from her and went back to the hospital and found out the truth from a radio in a box she found. This game is called “The Last of Us 2” and you can play it on ps4 and ps5! Hope this helped!

[@Ilham_1933.]

I was still very speechless when Joel wasn't dead, he said *if God gives me a second chance, then I will still do the same thing* said to Ellie, very touching 😊

[@Itz.libbyxoxo]

⁠I do feel really bad for Ellie because she has survivors guilt because pretty much everyone who she loved died and she didn’t bc she was immune, she thought that even if she did die she died for a cause and she’d do good for the world. She thought she didn’t mean anything and no one cared for her but she couldn’t have been anymore wrong because she didn’t realise that she was Joel’s whole world and he loved her like his own daughter, Ellie was healing Joel from when he lost his own child and Joel couldn’t bare having to feel like loosing another daughter, he would do anything for Ellie even to the point he’d sacrifice the world for her.

[@MckenzieWood-jb5et]

We’re all going through this now

[@yaguchj]

DUDE i love him so much

[@keerongill7310]

Ellies n Joels and voice actors are ridiculously good at their jobs

[@Milly5432]

JOELS FACE AT THE END 😭im boutta cry

[@dexter1009]

He explained it in the worst way possible when all he needed to say was they were going to kill her without asking her to attempt to come up with a vaccine they weren't sure would work... even if she was pissed off she would've understood his actions more. The writing always fell flat during important scenes like this

[@datboigeurmoc3626]

Joel had no clue what was on the tape recorder so they could have literally said he’s vaccine was gonna work in sacrifice of Ellie and he wouldn’t of known, it’s better to just state what HE KNEW personally was the truth rather than try and twist it to make himself sound better in risk of Ellie leaving

[@dexter1009]

@datboigeurmoc3626 no but in the waiting room when he wakes up he's literally told how uncertain they are with the vaccine but "hopeful" and they even tell him they never asked Ellie for consent to kill her, she knew they were going to run tests but she didn't know she would die from them. If Joel just told her what happened with even a small amount of crucial details she would've understood more. She would've put the pieces together eventuality of how messed up the fireflies actually were.

[@dexter1009]

Sorry they don't flat out say "the vaccine won't work probably" but the way they word it to him anyone would start to realize "holy shit they aren't even sure it's going to work"

[@iinferuslunitaa3169]

​@@dexter1009so she never finds this out? Damn I still haven't played tlou 2. I want closure but sadly there aren't so I don't wanna play it unless they make it clear in tlou 3 where joel has left some sort of a letter for ellie where he has spoken his heart and how much he loved and loves her, yk? Kind of closure for us audience and even for ellie. It might ease her ptsd and might end her story on a good term where she learns to let go and live in harmony. Kind of make peace with herself and Joel, even if he isn't there anymore. Although she finally understood what real loss is and maybe realised some stuffs why he did the things he did, she didn't vocalised. I hope to see that in tlou 3, if there is any.

[@christopherbrewer6114]

He saved her, yet she gave up on avenging her. "To break the cycle" like she's so morally right after all the shit that happens on this game. If someone killed the man who had saved me and helped me survive,? Especially one who was so close to me? Better believe I'd have killed the one who killed him without a second thought. Abby deserved to die, and yet Ellie punked out.

[@Fangtorn]

Dude, how can you be that obtuse? Do you not realize who you sound like? Abby. You know, the girl raised in a post-apocalypse by a loving father she thought was going to save the world, only for him to be murdered by some smuggler who also stole the last best chance of making a cure? Abby also killed the one who killed the person closet to her without a second thought, and it didn't solve anything, it only ended up ruining her life and getting most of her friends killed. If Abby deserved to die then so did Joel. The truth is Abby would've been better off if she'd never gone to Jackson, and so would Ellie if she'd never left. And like, do you really think Joel would've wanted Ellie to go through all that shit to avenge him?

[@dietmilk2676]

And this is how gang violence starts…

[@ILike_Roses01]

Abby killed the only person that Ellie loved and Ellie killed every person that abby cared about.

[@firedash2171]

⁠@@Fangtorndude it’s not logical enough.. like if you look at it from a psychological perspective she went to that island with only 1 thing on her mind.. revenge, not about Dina, not Joel, not tommy, Abby was the only person in her mind at that point and yet she slaughtered almost everyone on that island to get to Abby to do.. what? She cuts her down, they both walk to the boats and as soon as Ellie’s about to leave she “remembers” Joel all of a sudden and goes to fight Abby, Abby says no, Ellie threatens to kill Lev, they fight and just as Ellie was about to drown her.. she “remembers” Joel and lets her go..? No absolutely f@cking ridiculous, you don’t just walk away from the mentality of going through everything that you went though spilling your own blood for someone that you could’ve killed easily multiple times to just let go, the logic doesn’t add up properly because all the adrenaline and pheromones running through your head in that moment as Abby was about to die there’s no way that she’d be able to think properly until ABBY actually died and the adrenaline wears off now giving her clarity to think about what she’s done.. THAT makes more sense

[@Fangtorn]

@@firedash2171 It's weird to talk about logic when were talking about something as irrational and emotional as vengeance. Like, if you know anything about psychology you know humans aren't logical, but I think Ellie's actions make logical sense if you consider she is a traumatized wreck. It's confusing you say "the island" but I assume you mean Santa Barbara. Ellie is guilt-tripped into going there by Tommy, a reversal of their scene at the beginning, and from the beginning her hunt for Abby has been a way of avoiding mentally processing Joel's death. We see from her journal she avoids talking or even thinking about Joel. Just like Abby with Joel, Ellie turns Abby into a fixation, something to focus on instead of their loss. It's important to remember though that even though we've spent hours with these characters they haven't, they know jackshit about each other. Ellie is hunting her idea of Abby, just as she was hunting her idea of Joel, not the beloved father figure we know but the evil smuggler who murdered her father and doomed the human race. Instead of an evil villain Ellie finds Abby in a pitiful state, tied to a post, completely at her mercy. Ellie is not a cold-blooded murderer. Despite the amount of people she's killed trying to get to Abby virtually everyone she's killed has been in self-defense. If she was just after vengeance she could've easily killed Abby, but she forces her to fight. Just before she kills Abby she sees a flash of her last conversation with Joel in which she expressed her wish to forgive him. Ellie spares Abby because it was never really about her. It was about avoiding the fact that Joel was gone and she never forgave him. Killing her wouldn't bring Joel back and it wouldn't make Ellie feel any better.

[@incognito5952]

Joel is one of the best protagonists because most of the player base don’t disagree with what he does. He is human, that’s what makes him relatable

[@thisaccountnameiscompletel8949]

Would’ve been nice to see them expand upon this absolutely earth shattering truth and a dynamic of distrust between the two of them that they’d have to heal across the game but instead they decided to beat a beloved character to death with a golf club for a “vengeance bad” story.

[@lukeplaysgames20]

Yes because that is also impossible to be interesting and have deep complex themes in it oh wait.

[@Garry-nj9pc]

"A hero would sacrifice you for the world" but " A villain will sacrifice the world for you"

[@Gunner-yu7zy]

No that’s what a parent would do not a villain

[@gageshaw2113]

I feel like everyone that played this game is a child lmfao. sparing the babies life was showing she was better than all of it, and that’s what Joel would’ve wanted.

[@kaylawalentowski488]

Bro they made her watch as they killed him. Idgaf lol if I was her there’s no taking the high road now we’re at “when they go low I go to hell”

[@user-cg8lz4hv6p]

It's so sad they couldn't even watch it more then 1 tiime😢

[@user-bm8ch8ij7t]

Some people don’t know how realistic a game could be

[@SmotheryAxe1414]

Everything was set up so perfectly and Naughty Dog blundered and fumbled so hard

[@Fangtorn]

Yeah, fumbled into a critically acclaimed, award-winning bestseller. Dislike the game all you like but please live in the real world.

[@SmotheryAxe1414]

@@Fangtorn theres a difference between a good game and a successful game. everyone memes on the awards because its just an absolute joke so saying it got an award means nothing if it was blatantly rigged to shill the game. Over half of the 2020 game awards was dedicated to shilling Naughty Dog. The only rightful award that goes to the game was the technical aspects. The characters weren't better, the music wasn't better, the story is horrible so it definitely didn't earn narrative. The Game awards have been a joke since 2016 and everyone agrees by how little they take it seriously. The Game awards is just a platform to market triple A games. The IP carried the sales on top of false advertising and every platform like IGN gives every triple A game atleast an 8/10 regardless of if its quality. Cyberpunk was given a 9/10 by IGN but it was still a buggy mess that wasn't worth playing. It means nothing. It can sell extremely well but it doesn't make it a good game.

[@Fangtorn]

@@SmotheryAxe1414 "theres a difference between a good game and a successful game." I guess that's true but your initial comment implied that ND "blundered" and "fumbled" which wouldn't be the case if the game was either good or successful or both. "The characters weren't better, the music wasn't better, the story is horrible so it definitely didn't earn narrative" That's your opinion. Personally I loved the new characters, the music, and the story. Is it _impossible_ that critics genuinely and generally disagree with you? "It can sell extremely well but it doesn't make it a good game." Right, because what makes a game "good" is subjective, but the game still sold over ten million copies, so it doesn't seem like the game was subjectively "bad" enough to objectively affect sales. At least not enough to prevent it from being successful.

[@SmotheryAxe1414]

@@Fangtorn I guess I didn't full elaborate on what I meant when ND fumbled which I can understand how someone can take it the wrong way from what I intended, my bad. I implied that Naughty Dog had a great setup for the narrative with the characters but ended up fumbling the execution. I fully believe that abby would be much better liked and received if ND gave us time to genuinely connect with abby and her crew before killing the fan favorite character of the franchise. I personally think that the community would like abby if we spent more than 20 minutes with her at the beginning of the game. By not only killing Joel and not giving us enough time to care for abby and her motives, people cement their perception of the character far before you play as her for a long period of time making most people uninterested in anything she has to offer only wanting to cave her skull in. And the reason that is, is because not enough time is given to her at the beginning to become open minded enough about her perspective. You're given 20-40 minutes of her without context of her past, kills Joel, then you play exclusively as ellie for upwards of 10 hours without seeing abbys perspective once. Only then are you forced to play as the character you've spent the entire game trying to find and kill. A lot of people have already cemented their feelings towards the character by this point and are unwilling to change them. It especially doesn't help when she does super scummy things like sleep with Owen while Mel is pregnant. It doesn't give her a good look. People will just perceive her as a bad person, which she most definitely is in a lot of cases. All of these perspective problem would be fixed if the game rearranged the series of events to give the players good first impressions of abby. There's many other fundamental problems with the games narrative besides just abby but she is a big one since you spend half the game playing as her. I think The Last Of Us 2 is a great game ruined by very bad design choices. Naughty Dog fumbled.

[@Fangtorn]

@@SmotheryAxe1414 Okay, my bad, I thought you were saying they fumbled or failed in some sort of objective sense but you were making a subjective statement about the story. Fair enough. I still disagree that ND fumbled the execution, in fact I think it's inspired, but obviously that opinion is as subjective as your own. I will say though that I don't think you're giving ND enough credit for _why_ they made the design choices they did. Everything about the way the story unfolds is deliberate. "I fully believe that abby would be much better liked and received if ND gave us time to genuinely connect with abby and her crew before killing the fan favorite character of the franchise." Yes of course, but then we wouldn't be in Ellie's shoes. The writers don't want us to connect with Abby at this point, they want us to hate her as much as Ellie does.They want us to be in the same boat as Ellie with no idea who this Abby is or her motivations but totally bought in on hunting her down. "By not only killing Joel and not giving us enough time to care for abby and her motives, people cement their perception of the character far before you play as her" Exactly. The only thing we know about Abby is she murdered Joel, and that's enough for us to want to cross the country and cave her skull in, just like Ellie and critically, Abby. The writers want us to form this perception of Abby as an evil caricature because that's what Ellie is doing, and it's what Abby did with Joel. The only thing she knew about him was that he killed her father, and that was enough for her to cross the country and... well you know. "A lot of people have already cemented their feelings towards the character by this point and are unwilling to change them" That's exactly the mindset the writers want to get us to challenge. They know many won't want to empathize with the enemy, especially initially, but the writers are banking on most of the audience being open-minded enough to rethink their perception of Abby once they get to know her. Of it won't work with everyone, but I think you'd have to be a pretty obstinate person to go through ten plus hours with Abby and feel exactly as you did before. "People will just perceive her as a bad person, which she most definitely is in a lot of cases." So was Joel, and so is Ellie arguably, but because we like them we accept the bad things they did does not define them as a person, that they are also capable of doing good things. The writers are challenging us to see the same with someone we have reason not to like, with Abby by saving Lev and Yara and leaving the WLF. If the goal of Ellie's story was get us invested in her revenge quest and then gradually getting us to question whether it is worth it, then the goal of Abby's story is to humanize an enemy to the point that we don't want her dead. "All of these perspective problem would be fixed if the game rearranged the series of events to give the players good first impressions of abby." Yes, but the game is fundamentally about perspective. In the real world we don't get to see the perspective of our enemies, and that can lead to misunderstandings and violence. Having a good first impression of Abby would make it easier to forgive her, but Ellie wouldn't have that first impression. These perspective problems aren't problems but choices to make us go through the same arc of Ellie of wanting revenge, questioning revenge, and then rejecting revenge.

[@yearofthevirgoproductions302]

gotta remember ellie was only 14 when it happened. she felt like she was going to do something good for the world and dint realize until later that joel was all she had, her darkest fear came true, and she didn't even say sorry to him for being there for her and when he died a part of her died with him....that guilt hung over her.

[@AlllieeMonroee]

Maybe if Marlene never made the choice to leave Ellie in the hands of a guy who literally lost his daughter in the most tragic way possible, he wouldn’t have a trigger that affected his decision when he made the choice to take Ellie from the fireflies in the first place. Joel literally traveled with Ellie across country over the course of a year, and you’re going to tell me they weren’t supposed to bond whatsoever. Marlene and the fireflies took Ellie from Joel, didn’t let him get to say goodbye, and shoved him out the door. That’s pretty traumatic considering the events of their journey to even get there. Ellie took care of Joel when he fell off that second floor onto the pipe, sewed him up, found meds and food, and Joel saved her from David the rapist. For the fireflies to just take Ellie away from Joel without even letting him see her or say goodbye, is the sole reason he freaked out and did what did. He didn’t want to lose another “daughter” in such a fucked up way. Joel isn’t a bad guy. & knowing what I do now after playing the second game, every time I replay the first, I choose to burn Abby’s dad with my flamethrower so he suffers :) and I’d do it again.

[@accurate8351]

It’s not like Marlene knew about Joel’s past

[@xuephyre3225]

Why couldn't Joel just say he cared about her so much that he didn't want to lose her.

[@aliayman2369]

Difference between Abby and Ellie and joel Abby lets Ellie live Ellie lets Abby live "No, you would just come after us" Joel to marline

[@user-sy6bx9lc3l]

Died---------

[@4Lveofme]

They did perfect casting for The Last of Us TV show. Pedro Pascal looks just like Joel

[@mannb1023]

Meanwhile Ellie...

[@ItsCharieDayne]

There is this one thing that broke me so much.. The fact that Ellie never heard the full story of how Joel risked his life to save her because he loved her so much (as a daughter)..😢

[@CryAboutIt-ImATroll]

I'm honestly happy I never paid to play this because in the end it was all for nothing. She literally let's Abby go and Joel gets no kind of justice for his killing. It angered me so much either way because she had MORE THAN ENOUGH OPPORTUNITIES TO KILL HER and she just doesn't each time.

[@nrsouless414]

In all honesty what was the percentage of making the vaccine if was like 50 50 hell naw save her. No matter what I believe Joel did what his heart said even if it was selfish ellie deserved a life not in that kind of environment but still Joel is a badass for what he did an yes I feel for ellie because she feels she could've stopped all this but I wouldn't bank on it actually working 100%

[@user-sv2to5qp1q]

One day we are going to discuss how Joel is a Chaotic Evil antagonist

[@kalsoomakhtar6896]

I hate seeing old people sad it breaks me😢

[@kayla441]

You can see Joel's eyes watering 😢😭😭

[@PostYourJaggahog]

Incredible voice acting from Joel’s VA. The way he starts out hesitant at first, like he’s trying to stop the words from coming out of his mouth. Then he gets to the part he doesn’t regret, and his voice firms.

[@swordsmanoftime3001]

Troy Baker is a GOAT among VAs.

[@Maintraders]

That this is the scene everyone hated Ellie..

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

Don’t forget when she got the biggest cuck in the world award after forgiving her father’s murderer not only the stupidest yet laughable way imaginable because apparently revenge IS BAD after ending countless of lives

[@dietmilk2676]

She was in the right though

[@lucasferreirasouza6623]

She wasn't right at all . She should be more thankfull to Joel.

[@mannb1023]

​@@lucasferreirasouza6623 she was lied to for 3 years, also this attitude is very real. Lots of kids get pissed at their parents for doing things in the name of love, for example taking phone away from an addicted kid, not letting them see a bad boyfriend or going out late at night

[@lukeplaysgames20]

@@lucasferreirasouza6623Joel lied to her for years this is a serious violation of trust

[@Lane_Switcher]

I can never be happy again every time I see Joel’s face😔 and Ellie just let Abby walk away

[@xdarkwolf2255]

Cause killing Abby wouldn't bring Joel back and Abby had a kid with her and let Ellie go multiple times

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

@@xdarkwolf2255apparently revenge is kinda bad I realized this after murdering countless of people tlou2 is truly the most piece of shit game ever made🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

@@xdarkwolf2255 i know right after massacaring countless people with families i ONLY THEN understand that revenge IS bad and forgiving my one and only father’s murderer for literally stupidest reason imaginable is the RIGHT thing to do the story is a MASTERPIECE and it was made for us cucks who forgives their father’s murderer for stupidest message ever made😢 (this man literally chose you instead of chance to save the world and yet you do the most cuck action known to history of men)

[@xdarkwolf2255]

@@ghostwhencodghosts9114 were you not confident in your first response lol Those people attacked Ellie first. Ellies actions were self defense bro. It was either her or them. Abby at the end though, it wasn't yhe case. She wanted to end things and move on from the past And so did Ellie by the end cause Abby may have done the wrong thing but that doesn't justify killing her and Lev

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

@@xdarkwolf2255 the game literally rushed and made the most dumb scenario to kill joel they literally rushed joel to die in the first 20 minutes of the game in literally the worst way possible this guy survived for 20 years survived many ambushes killed hordes of infected killed lots of men wiped out hospital full of soldiers and then we see him rescue someone and he doesn’t ask what the hell are you doing in this blizzard or who are you or even what is your name in the intro he told tommy what he has done in firefly hospital to save his step daughter ellie and when he sees abby i think he has dementia because he forgor someone might come after him after that hospital massacre and then he literally accepts the invitation to go to that stranger’s house knowing it’s full of other strangers he don’t know about and don’t try to say “he had no choice 🤓” “they were surrounded”🤓 it seems like ever since he moved here he was still on patrol because he is paranoid and hes been doing this for years and people thinking that this is the first time they were surrounded by a horde in a blizzard which is likely happens in jackson but in game they want us to believe they had no choice but to go to some house in somewhere which for some reason the house is well tidy but not captured by jackson people they could go back to jackson horses are faster than infected and it’s a blizzard infected will lost them anyway and they have walls a fucking base they can take down the horde but anyway they go there and looks like there was only 10 infected caught up to the horses which are from the forest not from that place they were surrounded looks like they have evaded them and then they go in not a single paranoia and holstering their backpack on their horse like “we won’t need it anyway???????” And not grabbing their pistol they are all relaxed with 10 strangers in the room surrounding them tommy is so relaxed he asks for towels while bending over to a counted joel goes middle of the room and tells them his name like i said i think he has dementia or garbage writing and then he be surprised “y’all seem like you’ve heard of us or something.” Bro are you fucking serious like no shit and then abby has dementia too because “people” call “her” a “good person” or “best character ever” because she would never kill anyone without mercy right? But joel saves abby and abby doesn’t even show mercy because “he killed my father oh no” joel had to kill his father they were going to kill his daughter and he pulled a knife on him and then we see ellie having sex while joel is being murdered and she goes there and we see abby changed clothes your “good person” has beat that old man to death so much she even had time to changed clothes she enjoyed every second and she still do it while ellie who is her daughter begging, literally begging to “her” to stop and then tell pull like how john wick’s dog’s murderers did, put his corpse there and she wakes up and sees his brains in the floor. Did they really said “oh yes fans will love this game?” I literally just explained how the game is garbage of one scene of the game I didn’t even start It’s extremely unrealistic that she found steroids, so much protein and calories to be like 100 kg bulk and fat in a fucking 25 year old apocalypse why would you based off her from a steroid user woman instead of like normal shaped woman in a fucking 25 year old apocalypse oh and not to mention that being that bulk is possible with genetics of her father who he isn’t even muscular and abby is a “woman” yeah sure looks so much like his father when daughters usually look like their father oh and you realized “she” is the literally the most muscular human in the entire world of apocalypse?? What was she the first one to find and know how to use gym gears before anyone at least in wlf base? Yeah stfu or you trolling or are you serious? Joel, this man survived dozens of ambushes by being paranoid, strong and smart remember when ellie and joel first met the hunters he said oh he ain’t rven hurt? Or remember how paranoid and smart he was saying that youd just come after her and he killed marlene to set up loose ends? He took zero risks but now in this woke piece of shit they tell their name to some stranger out in the blizzard completely trusting that transgender yet thinking it is a VERY good idea to go to someones house knowing there are much more people there yet when they go there they actually thought they were just a gonna get out of there no problem because they wouldn’t try to do something to them in this 25 year old apocalypse where people kill each other for food yet being too relaxed that they even put their backpacks on their horse and tommy saying yall got towels or anything and joel just wanders in the middle of the room and says his name and then gets surprised saying yall seem like youve heard of us or something like no shit not even having his pistol on his hand and literally died the most stupid way possible tlou2 is truly the worst game of all time in fiction history yet you sheep praise this piece of shit game because they added prone and dodge button after 7 years of waiting so you are saying this man who survived by 25 years in this hell apocalypse by being paranoid and smart who evaded multiple ambushes, armies and zombie hordes all by himself, and AFTER killing every fucking armed soldiers in a hospital all by himself after he just woke up killed literally everyone and their leader all though he told that to his brother what he has done, thinking oh well they are probably not after me and wouldn’t know who i am because they heard my name so much they put nicknames on me like the smuggler joel miller? Oh yeah in probably fine telling my name to some transgender bodybuilder all by himself in some middle of the blizzard and middle of zombie hordes who has said that he has friends hiding in some mansion near to our home? Hmmm yeah must be our neighbors who we knew what house were they even holes up even confirmed by tommy? Oh yeah they are probably just feeling generous to offer us some tea and be on our way where people kill each pther for starvation, rape defenseless people to at least have a bit fun in this hopeless survival of the world? Oh yeah we are probably gonna be fine although at least in my journey with ellie everyone who saw us tried to shoot to kill us when hunters tried to trick is or followed us to the university or the mall where i was wounded or even some resort? Just to kill us? Yeah we are fine imagine forgiving your father’s murderer for no reason at all you wouldn’t know because you don’t have a father that loves you (most likely) even you tlou2 fans don’t know “the real meaning” of the story some of yall say it’s about forgiveness i say oh so forgiving your father’s murderer who loves you so much that he literally sacrificed the world for you, for no reason? And yall sometimes say it’s about revenge i say oh so revenge is bad unless you are some npc’s transgender bodybuilder child (abby) and not ellie or you say it’s about some other dumb shit you woke mentally ill people keep on defending this piece of shit story it is the worst game ever made this game has literally worst characters ever existed possibly the worst pacing and they cutted out multiplayer with worst ending ever made and killing off one of the greatest character in extremely dumb way and they added just 2 new gameplay mechanics that was in gaming since 2004 lying in grass was started in metal gear solid 3 dodging was literally in every third person games jumping to someone was in uncharted 3/4 and hiding in bushes was in uncharted 4 they added nothing to the game and made the skill tree even worse literally all the guns are from tlou1 and it’s multiplayer’s dlc guns they only added shooting someone’s knee that makes them kneel that was in metal gear solid 2 2001 they cutted out skins on character’s that was in uncharted 1 all the way to tlou1 braindead people: “The story is about revenge is bad.” Oh but abby can have his revenge but ellie can’t?” “Oh i mean the story is about forgiveness.” Oh so you’d forgive your father’s murderer for literally no reason at all? The one who loved you so much he sacrificed the world for you? Imagine this: Someone breaks into your house kills your father who was protecting you and you pick up a gun but let him go for literally no reason and your mom asks why didn’t you kill that guy??? He murdered your father You: “you see, there is a deeper meaning to this…….” You tlou2 fans are extremely braindead it’s unbelievable if you’re serious Are you tlou2 fans this braindead? Are there any tlou2 fan he is at least smarter than a 12 yo?

[@chrlspdrsn]

This was one of the most heartbreaking scenes for me

[@molequedaora]

Hate Abby's dad, but don't hate Abby. She had nothing to do with his shitty decisions to save the world. That guy was still her father.

[@user-xs9mu6fj3c]

Jole is the definition of a family

[@firefist7545]

It's crazy that this Cutscene feels like a clip from movie

[@xanarches]

Women ☕ ☕

[@mirzasaqlainbeigh8641]

why?

[@rottenmilk1138]

you're gross

[@Adam-X]

At first joel even says that you are not my daughter to ellie but ellie felt hurt but when he became her dad she hated him for it

[@averyadxms]

Joel knew what he did would come back to him. But like he said in their last conversation, he doesn’t regret it. he would rather live in a world where Ellie hates him than watch her die. he took his death like a man and i stand by that

[@JeremyfromFortnite69]

I’m just glad Joel did save Ellie cus I believe it played I significant part in the story especially how in the first game we get left on the cliff hanger at the end

[@nat3dgr34t]

I’m just happy that Joel knew Ellie would come and try and save him which was the last thing he saw brought him peace

[@TF2SpyEnjoyer]

"You never know when someone you love will gone... Try to spend with someone you love before they fade away." -Me

[@zenox_xl]

Sacrificing 1 person for the world Sacrificing the world for 1 person.. 💔

[@k1n6k0ng8]

“If you lie to me again, then I am gone and you will never see me again” “Good”

[@zyellecrein9944]

He became the villain in that part. It means he would sacrifice the world to protect you.

[@Gojira_Sama]

Both had every right to do what they did and react how they did .. Joel knew it was wrong for them to kill her on a pipedream, and knew they wouldnt stop hunting her. She feels like if she gave her life everyone would be saved, and wants there to be meanint to her existence. Its the perfect definition of a beautiful tragedy

[@dooker1028]

“ I told her what but she got mad what does she want from me?”

[@hyperblox77]

"No matter what it is"

[@A.K.A_whaly]

Listen here fellas, when they say this, with this face. Take it to heart, they will never come back again.

[@jamesmcallen3354]

*the chance* to make a vaccine would have killed Ellie. There was no guarantee it would work or they would even be able to find all the equipment needed to mass produce one

[@scorpixz9595]

People are saying that they hate Ellie for not killing Abby but you gotta realize that Abby was exactly like Joel in most ways so she probably realized if she killed Abby she would be no better then her and this game isnt a bad game this is one of the first games that I actually felt sad over deaths and the ending was beautiful story telling but ig that’s just my opinion

[@Tommasinho]

Joel didn't wanted to lose another person, he already lost Tess, Sarah and others, but if he left Ellie there, Joel would live better, but he preferred living in a world like that than losing another one. 😢

[@PulseMaktafa]

I feel very bad about joel he wanted to keep her alive he raised her like she was his daughter 😢 and died in the most sad and painful way we could think he went through so much just like in part 1 were he just gets his gut ripped open by falling a floor off on a metal and still went for the rescue and ellie isnt even appreciating shit he did everything for her And he died thinking she hated him😢😢😢 and if he hadn't died the game would have been 2x better than now

[@user-kk7tb1li9h]

When someone says I won’t be mad😂

[@boboobrenovac6590]

The humanity is not worth it to die for them

[@pfam1985]

"If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance at the moment... I would do it all over" . Joel Miller😢😢😢😢😢

[@thales2501]

"oh but abby is alone now and everyone she cared for is dead, thats revenge too" ~the guy who only played uncharted

[@Zeex25]

If somehow the lord give me one sec to change that momment , i would do all over again -joel miller

[@Iamthanhtung]

Even he told her the truth, he still never saw her again 😢

[@flowerhana__1]

He'd already lost his daughter and his partner, he didn't want to lose her too.

[@rex7a]

You opened an unhealed wound

[@crescent8217]

a classic scene of a hero will burn you for the world but a villan will burn the world for you ( though joel isnt a villan )

[@alejandrofabiano39]

He doesn't know a world without ellie

[@Mahboobkhan-vg2dj1on1q]

My heart was broken 💔💔💔 😭😭😭

[@erickespencer7487]

He lost his daughter a long time ago he did not want to lose her😢😢

[@RubyFlores-pr2fz]

Vengance is what made Abby leave if Ellie didn’t go after Abby she would’ve already died

[@Ivanjosuu]

Ella no se merecía a él. Joel le salvó la vida y le dio una oportunidad de amar, crecer, desarrollarse y Ellie prefirió hacer berrinche hasta que perdió a la única persona que cuidó de ella.

[@justcallmerasya]

Sometimes video games are movie and that's the beauty of it for me

[@featherskaijay3060]

Ellie goes on a vengeance arc dragging her two friends in on it. Jesse dies and Dina is heartbroken. She breaks her relationships and friendships just to let the woman who started it all go free. Jesse deserved better friends. And Dina deserved a better partner.

[@casperriee]

i miss him 😔

[@DinoMeat-qw4lg]

The last time Ellie saw Marlene was in Massachusetts. She went years without knowing that Joel killed her which is crazy to me.

[@normalguy2425]

He had every right to save her. They made him a deal that when he gave them ellie, he would get new weapons. But not only did they not give weapons, they tooked joels backpack and force him out to wild.

[@jakob8940]

That's probably the worst argument

[@normalguy2425]

@@jakob8940 But its solid

[@johnmonster5719]

Ellie distanced herself from Joel a few years before his death And after his death you can see her feeling guilty knowing she could've spent the few remaining years of his life close to him

[@quowla]

He just didnt want to lose ellie like her daughter but died thinking that she hated him Thats such a cruel feeling😭

[@lukeplaysgames20]

He didn’t think she hated him