Mythic Plus is Pissing Me Off

[@timhook8186]

Affixes and timers are what make M+. My biggest issue with the current M+ system is the key progression. I think the squish was a mistake.

[@danoizedafunk753]

Bro that feeling of knowing you’re guid mates are gonna brick your key lol every night

[@thejakel11225]

It's like failing a raid boss on Mythic and you have to kill it on Heroic again...

[@Kazemarue]

I love a good rage vod. gets the blood flowing and makes me wanna q up some more m+

[@天使霜]

??? "Hearing how bad m+ is makes me want to punish myself!" Now im starting to understand m+ mentality...

[@Kazemarue]

@@天使霜 Must grind....must climb.....must increase mental pain

[@tjlehn3157]

@@天使霜this is only the beginning young padawan.

[@thecatalytic]

I was already not a fan of depletion but I never considered how AWFUL it is for the people actually using their own keys. I mainly play healer so I can get into groups pretty reliably, but I've heard horror stories of DPS waiting HOURS just to get into one key. The only real way some "undesirable" specs can get groups for keys IS to use their own and they are just getting punished for it more than the applicants.

[@waffles3782]

I've only ever gotten groups as dps if it's my own key. At high levels, roll a shit key that week, have it depleted, often due to tank quitting, or skip a week and I just stop playing for rest of the phase.

[@KNByam]

I never use my own key. The last time I did was halfway through Dragonflight and only because a guildy needed some gear.

[@antonego9581]

the other days i had a NW at +9. 4 pugs in a a row flamed out, one the healer was totally useless and left in the middle of the first boss. one we wiped twice on stichflesh because the same shaman missed every hook. one the tank pulled way too much first pull and left immediately after wiping. one we wiped on 2nd boss and tank left. it got down to a +4 until i finally got a decent group and we easily +2'd it. im not some amazing player but i know the mechanics and pull around a million dps overall, its insanely frustrating to be totally at the mercy of other players who don't know what to do or just do dumb stuff and leave

[@KOHoxton]

Account suspensions for bricking keys, solved.

[@KNByam]

@KOHoxton That's too extreme. A nice long timeout, short of suspension. Let's say, 1hr.

[@sageen]

Playing healer/tank, fckin hate the people in m+ so toxic it make me wanna delete wow like 80% of the time

[@philmehrart]

AGREE. I'm trying to learn and just a n00b, running 3s and 4s rn. People have to remember its a feckin game and you're here to have fun, crazy concept

[@rafaellontra2189]

@@philmehrart the more you play WoW the more you get used to not having fun

[@KNByam]

I play a resto shaman. I got cursed out a few times. I made it to 2k rating for the mount, then I decided to take a break. I'm thick skinned but it became too much to deal with.

[@SuperBybis]

So why u dont uninstall i did and started playing singleplayer games and let me tell u life is good

[@Dated420]

i deleted wow after tanking for 12+ years. Tired of people who got no clue what they're talking.

[@In_Dog_We_Trust]

Absolutely nailed with "You dont want your guildmates to see you running mythic + cause they'll brick your key"

[@adriancarballoza6149]

I don't play wow since cataclism, but why your guildmates want to screw you that way

[@maruraba1478]

No one is being malicious. People have forgotten what helping someone is like. Not everyone is you or at your skill level. In wrath we would gladly help people through Naxx guiding them and giving tips to DK tanking, etc. also taking them through the base dungeons. Good times.

[@In_Dog_We_Trust]

@@maruraba1478 people wanna try and be a white knight and help everyone, but there comes a point to when you kinda gotta do figure the stuff out on your own…there’s literally the entire internet at their fingertips to learn boss mechanics, interrupts, talents and so forth. Not saying that people don’t deserve some help now and then but walking into a mythic dungeon and bricking a guildmates key because you didn’t take the time to understand what you’re supposed to do is bullshit. Sorry but this season is pretty unforgiving, that’s blizzards design not ours

[@artherir]

I'm a main tank Pala, been on a hiatus of the game for 4 years (left after SL release), and man, returning to do +2 or +3 to practice, and people getting WILD for dying once; after they pulled more that I could handle just for "time". Yesterday, we were at the final boss with 9 min left, wiped once, a guy left, we ended the thing with 6 min. Some people just get tilted too fast for this game mode

[@dominick4820]

Ya I don’t get it either. Even as a dps I never trip on the tank or healer unless they do some absolute bogus play but you can clear keys smooth with medium pulls and larger pulls at times. People try to rush too much when they can just chill and clear the key with medium pulls.

[@EmoDragracer]

My thing has always been, there are two camps of people. There are the folks (like me) who LOVE the thrill of timing a key and the pressure of a ticking clock. And there are people who just want to play the game because M+ is fun at its core. So why not have it like this; when you go to put your key in you select "Timed" or "Normal". A normal run you can take 7 hours to complete if you want and you get two pieces of gear for the group and the crests and stones you would normally get. A timed run you get three pieces of gear and maybe 10 more crests and some extra stones. People can gear up and upgrade without the INSANE pressure and getting denied because of their spec. Sometimes you just want to play the game like your mortgage isn't on the line :D Also; got a sub from me man. Solid video.

[@gohomehero]

They just need to add a survival map like vermintide/darktide. Run to the end and combat random encounters. Would be fun af.

[@kionake1]

I think there's a third camp; people who love the thrill of a timed key but dont want to speedrun it too hard either. Im inexperienced maybe since im currently not going higher than +4 , but as a healer im struggling so hard to keep up with tanks pulling everything at maximum speed with no regard of keeping aggro, just for the sake of finishing the dungeon as fas as possible. this results in half the group dying because we're scattered throughout the room and i have to choose who to keep alive. I have ZERO issues on boss fights, its just the adds. And then in the end we're only halfway through the timer; there was no need to rush like that lol

[@EmoDragracer]

@@kionake1 oh one hundred percent. I’m fortunate enough to have a solid group of DPS and tanks on my friend list/guild but yea; I’d rather take my time and finish with two minutes left over bricking the key because some tank thought we were in competition for world first 😅

[@kionake1]

@@EmoDragracer Im so sad all my friends quit 5+ years ago, my friends list is a GRAVEYARD lol, forced to play with sweaters

[@CharlieVictor212]

Never invite a pug Aug evoker.

[@tonyr6180]

Amen.

[@mattjoo]

I’m sure this runs along the line of someone saying “boosted”

[@Christophersaurus]

What is the lore behind this? Do people just go aug for fotm and suck? I was pres til 2720 then had to switch to aug to keep climbing but I’ve been doing 12s way easier as aug

[@kel1770]

​@@Christophersaurussame lore as never invite a ret, or never invite a hunter, or never invite people from these realms. People just have a few bad experiences and extrapolate a pattern that doesnt exist, then socially reinforce eachother's beliefs

[@sgtjonmcc]

​@Christophersaurus they do it because they think it's easy and see high key pushers running Augs frequently.

[@Garounn]

Main tank, 3k+ player TWW S1 here, been doing a lot of season before, running high keys, only PUG. This has never been as frustrating as it is. In Europe servers right now there are like 10 x 14 keys available on PUG research. The gap between 11 and 12 is way too brutal for a lof of peoples, turning random mecanics into deadly ones. And I'm really okay and I enjoy the difficulty, but hopefully I play tank and can easily join keys, so after some fails I learn the different traps and avoid them. Mythic plus is all about knowledge, how are dps supposed to learn anything when they can only run 2 keys a day because they can't join, or have to push their own key to have a chance to try running a 12+ that will mostly deplete quick and party will leave before they have the ability to learn the dungeon. I'd like a system where you start with all dungeon 0, then you time one +2, unlock free and unlimited access to +3 for that dungeon. You time it +11, unlock free and unlimited access to +12 for that dungeon. Without any key, just by choosing the level in a list like in delves. In my opinion that would force peoples to play every level and learn.

[@oshwash1993]

I mostly agree, but I just started timing 12s with pugs as 622 ilvl dps, and I don’t think the jump was that brutal post nerf. Yeah the mechs are punishing, but you should really be able to expect people know how to avoid the mechs by the time you get to +12 lol. Dps has plenty of opportunity to learn up until then, but i think part of the problem is people expect to just steamroll or get carried through the content they should be learning the mechanics in. Yours would be a nice solution, though. I don’t run my own keys, so I don’t really worry about depletion. I just say “gg sorry for your key” and on to the next lol

[@Sanrilas]

That only works with Solo Content, asson as ppl can get carried they will, and not learn a singel thing and still brick it for the rest

[@Garounn]

@@oshwash1993 Yeah I can relate, I don't have issues to join keys so I'm not complaining. But from what I've seen like guildies playing not meta classes as DPS, with high ilvl, having every 11 keys timed on +2, tagging 12 keys all day to enter 2 or 3 keys, because peoples are too afraid of depleting and only take the meta classes, it looks really frustrating

[@Garounn]

@@Sanrilas Yeah but if you had the opportunity to roll the key without deplete you could cherry pick the mates doing great, thanks and remove the failers, find others PUGS to replace and go again instead of having to farm again and again that key already have runned 10th of times. Peoples wanting to progress could have another chance on that key.

[@MrVaeron]

​@@Garounn And it would still be a boost party. We are already "boosting" people without that much of a problem if we are 4 people. We can take literally any DPS with 2k Rio into almost any +10and ++ it. Now at least there is some risk to it so a lof of people dont bother doing it for Gold, but lets be honest here, IF we could just reroll the group and do the same key over and over, we would start boosting for gold just cause there is no downside to it.

[@robertlyall]

As someone who has thoroughly enjoyed M+ at a somewhat reasonable level for the past couple of expansions, I'm completely done with it this season.

[@realBarny]

Do you not like your champion gear 1/8, clearly the game is just not for you.

[@Malikron]

@@realBarnyyou say that like an insult, but you’re right- when the game stops feeling fun for people, they won’t play it. And when enough people stop playing it, your experience will start to become affected.

[@MostlyFish21]

yeah I stopped playing after 2k rating this season sucks. I read somewhere that maybe only 20% of the player base even reached 2k maybe lower

[@goondawg420-fp5nx]

@@realBarny you're my little guy grinding 636 gear for 9's hahaha fr what a dumbass comment though linking ilvl like it has anything to do with the convo idiot

[@86Corvus]

Season lol

[@truthisoutthere2695]

i have to have a go at you i am a sixty year old guy with cancer it is not fair that you make the funniest wow video i have ever seen i could not stop laughing i felt your pain but dude you are funny as shit hit the comedy circuit man you will make millions

[@moldgrim1]

All keys should have 3 charges. That way we have a safety net for when ppl DC, IRL happens, someone messes up. An infinite amount of tries will be fine as well, but having a set amount adds a bit of urgency to the whole thing.

[@mekz22]

This is probably the only suggestion I've seen so far that could work.

[@kelinoxx3469]

Just make it infinite, i know comparing to raids is not ideal but imagine if you had 3 times to do a boss until you had to lower the difficulty and start over again

[@szitastamas]

If it was infinite we would be in a situation where a mild fuckup would mean starting the dungeon all over again for like 30 times until everything lines up perfectly. The depletion gives the runs that stress factor that you HAVE TO try to do your best and you'll get the next higher key if you succeed. So a charge system on a key sounds like a pretty decent middle way, I like it!

[@dims4627]

I love that idea

[@chanaconda]

I'd push for 5 charges but yeah that could work.

[@theannoyedfiremage8721]

This was EXACTLY my experience in Dragonflight. I have not done a M+ since. I don't have people I can rely on to group with. My guild only really logs in for casual day-to-day "chore" activities they break into very small and short sessions throughout the week and two raid nights, each of which are scheduled for 2 hours due to our varying time constraints. I CANNOT rely on pugs to do group content. I am not going to abandon my friends, guildmates I've been with since BURNING FREAKING CRUSADE to join another guild *just* to do M+ content. Key depletion is a stupid mechanic and I will NEVER step foot in another M+ so long as this continues.

[@mattjoo]

💯

[@seekittycat]

I'm on a similar position though I ended up joining a M+ guild and just try to hang out with my friends on discord. I just didn't see any other option I just don't got the time to wait.

[@stuntjustin6106]

Should be time a key + level Complete a key = same level Leave a key - drop level

[@axelotl86]

Yes!

[@Hekk.]

It should be like delves. You only need keys if you want more/better loot, otherwise you can just spam whatever level you want.

[@axelotl86]

@ This would be perfect

[@superkitten7560]

Omg when you brought up the picture with the red circle in Ara Kara, as a healer main, I screamed "Yes!!!" My pain...my pain in one picture.

[@MrVaeron]

I dont know why people think that pull is necessary. Just stop halfway, kill the small stuff and get one. Its maybe 30s that you waste, but you dont put the whole run at risk within the first minutes.

[@markyYE]

I never understood the depletion system, it was the first question I asked when I started playing m+ and people just told me: ”Well it be weird if you didnt get punished for failing.” The time wasted when not timing the key is punishment enough. If blizz still wants the depletion system to be a thing I think they should implement charges to the keys so you atleast have like 2-3 tries on each key.

[@wdf70]

Many of the frustrations of M+ could be alleviated if they just removed the timer. There's already mechanics in place that keep track of how long an encounter is running (It affects enrage times) Kill a boss quickly, boom you get a better key. You're now rewarded for the boss kill instead of racing against trash mobs.

[@marcpaulus6291]

For people like me and my friends who do M+ for the +8 crests and the Mythic track gear / Portals the most anoying thing with depletion is that you waste time. If you have an 8 and you deplete it you only get 5 crests and are back to 7. Now you have to run the 7 to get back to 8 but you dont need the loot, you dont need the crest on 7, you just spend 30 minutes to get the stone back to 8. If you have only an hour to play you just spend this hour to get 5 crests... Why? If you play a 10 you get a mythic track vault place, no matter if you time it or not. At least give us 10 crests when we deplete a key.

[@oshwash1993]

That would encourage people to stick with keys more too. There shouldn’t be multiple punishments for not timing on top of the wasted time. It feels so bad.

[@quenguin2178]

I have always felt M+ isn't really designed to be Pugged. I mean, you can PUG it if you want but it seems designed for a group of 5 "budz" to do some harder dungeons. When you PUG people, you don't know anything about them, their playstyle, boosted or not

[@kevinc8955]

Retail is largely played by a bunch of older millenials and young gen Xers. We don’t have the social circle that can coordinate times to run with 4 friends. It’s why delves are such a hit. It’s why solo shuffle is a hit. It’s why BG Blitz is a hit. Players want to queue for things. Blizzard just needs to figure it out.

[@D4rkc14ymor3]

​@kevinc8955 speak for yourself, most of us have friends and don't need to pug. If you play an MMO like a single player game, you don't get to complain about getting cockblocked from content.

[@samward1317]

like 90% of players primarily play the game through pugging

[@celilgok7210]

@@D4rkc14ymor3 yeah sure, let all the people who are pugging out of the game and see how it affects you. It is so baffling to me to see people like you talking nonsense. What do you think is going to happen when people keeps quitting and quitting. I recently leaved my team because two guys were perma fighting with each other and while searching for another team to do +14s i was pugging and man this shit is a fucking hell. My key got depleted till +13 to +9, its a big middle finger for you. Even when you have a team because of this fucking deplete thing people get tense and start arguing each other for no raeson.

[@NoobTX]

I have a solution why does keys still exist when the delve tier system exist simply make a tier list dmg where you can choose the tier before entering instead of keys

[@johannilsson6395]

Yes. This.

[@bst857]

Keys are not so bad, because it stops people from only playing the easiest or fastest dungeons, so theoretically you should be able to find a group for any dungeon. But I do think you should be able to change your key after completing a dungeon that is as higher or higher than it, regardless of whether you left the dungeon or not. It sucks so hard when you forget to change it and the chance is gone.

[@whereisthesurvivalhunter9525]

People still farmed the sh*t out of the Maw of Souls regardless of the key system So your example isn't good enough ^^"

[@philmehrart]

That's legit a great idea

[@Succi17]

One thing I personally hate about M+ is the routing as a tank. Yeah a lot of tanks like to pull like it's the MDI, but I've had issues where I get in arguments with group members because I don't want to do some obnoxious skip that fails if one person messes it up. Because in a pug, there's an 80% chance someone will.

[@carrcossa]

I went to Arakara +11 3 times. First time tank just jumped of the platform by an accident and we missed the timer. 2nd run, we missed the timer by 15 seconds which was sad xd 3rd time I went with another group of randoms and we double chested that 11 :) just have to keep trying and get lucky, but having a way to prevent depletions would be nice :D

[@marcpaulus6291]

A depletion is ok when you didnt make it because you were not strong enough for it or made too many mistakes. But in the Bug Within, were every dungeon has some game breaking bugs, classes are buged in a way they can accidentaly pull trash out of other rooms (hunters, boomkins etc) this is not fair anymore. And keep trying till you encounter no game breaking bug in a dungheon that is already challenging is no fun.

[@entylsa]

Downgrading of key made sense when you couldnt do it via the Panda lady, but now its realy not reasonable anymore, and I say set while never playing my own key.

[@Jaredius]

Several changes have caused a system where I won’t invite anyone to my key that doesn’t have my ilvl or higher, my IO score or higher and haven’t timed my key before. This is the game now….and I still encounter the issues you describe. I agree with your solution of removing key depletion.

[@metsfan1932]

Who remembers when keys actually went into a "depleted" state and you had to time them twice to upgrade it? It's actually funny cause in some ways that system is better. Once you got a key to a level, it stayed at that level and you could keep running it at that level until you timed it. Yes, you had to time it twice to upgrade it, but you never went backwards. The problem was no one wanted to run a "depleted" key because it didn't give loot but if depleted key runs gave loot, no one would care if it was depleted or not. They were so close to the right answer and then went in the wrong direction.

[@akd3vs]

Agree, it's nonsense that you can't choose if you wanna lower the key if you didn't completed it, at least, other things that should be there is to just restart the dungeon and the most controversial that I support: pick your key.

[@AmandaPelland]

We can all relate with you DoubleD! I play resto shaman and I make a point that I've been playing resto shaman way before the war within xpac ☺, and it's not flavor of month spec. It's embarrassing how many resto shamans I hear about that brick keys. I love your take on Mythic +. I had such a good laugh because we can relate!!

[@abadi173]

a really good point , if a you fail a key it should not go down a level

[@AnaBolaCaspao]

I've said this before and I still stand by it, a key should not deplete in the first 5 - 10 mins of the dungeon. Vast majority of wipes happen in this time range and it would solve this issue in the middlegound. *To clarify, I'm now a healer main, so I get insta queue and got no skin in the game, just feel kinda bad for dps and their keys getting depleted with instant disbands. With Pugs this system is very punishing ^^

[@samward1317]

If your key didn't deplete, you'd stop after the first pull and kick the lowest DPS and reform.

[@AnaBolaCaspao]

@ still, what would you lose besides some time tho? At least your key would not deplete and people would be more willing to try off meta classes due to the buffer.

[@filipfenix]

Back in legion, your key was perma depleted and trashed and u had to start from 0. That was the good 'ol days

[@justin5002]

That was when we had multiple chests depending on the timing of the run I believe.

[@CsStoker]

@@justin5002 And 5 max level items in the weekly chest plus 1 item for each member of the group in +15 and more

[@justin5002]

@@CsStoker thanks for the confirmation, I’m a bit fuzzy about legion.

[@CsStoker]

@@justin5002 Not only that, the items at the end of the dungeon were upgrades since the ilvl was equal to the current raid tiers, and there was also the chance of titanforged gear

[@jonathan13co]

Titanforging f***ing sucked, and m+ rewards never matched mythic raid gear in legion and early bfa. It was capped at +10. @@CsStoker

[@ItsJessdMe]

Depletion needs to happen to keep keys low. If keys never deplete then there won’t be any low keys for people to learn in.

[@Nhouyengah]

People are doing +10 without knowing the mechs due to how the scaling works

[@Stopskii3]

Not disagreeing with ya. But in 11s, you dont learn a lot of the things that a 12 requires to survive. The gap is too big. Also if it was more like choosing tiers in delves, then plenty of people will be running lower keys. But i do think the keys being the way they are gives people a bigger sense of importance and investment in each run. But also means people begin to be more exclusive with who they invite.

[@alihorda]

People still boost so it doesn't matter. Depletion hurts when you are forced to pug

[@avshipman]

this makes no sense lol

[@paced2460]

The reason keys are so awful right now is because of the affix that takes 15 seconds off the timer, if your group wipes once it’s a minute and 15 off the timer + the run back so add 30 seconds to a minute on top of the minute and 15 it’s insane

[@coriebaker30]

I just got KSM on my dps (Hunter / BM Spec) and it took me so many failed keys to complete 1 key, I did this all via pug groups, it rough out here! I do as though feel M+ is super over tuned. I am not going to try for 2K+ on a tank, but I refuse to heal, I have seen what healers are going through and I don't think I could handle it. I do feel as though, Blizz is killing M+ to a degree. I hate when I go into a 7 Key and people make 13 Key pulls and play the same style, but what they fail to understand is a 7 is not played like a 13, I laugh.

[@joeblack2809]

Haven’t had a chance to play M+ in TWW yet, played a bit in BF, but did most of M+ runs during SL. And I can confidently say that used to be the reason why I couldn’t progress higher with some of my alt accounts because the tank would always pull too big like he would on his main and wipe the group. Then flame us and leave

[@Blaylock2]

This is probably the clearest and most insightful explanation of Mythic Plus flaws I've ever come across lol.

[@gamertd4093]

I've had a string of tanks pulling the first boss in my key, a dps dies half way through, they reset the boss and immediately alt + F4 on me. Like 3 or 4 in a row yesterday. I'm confused by the mentality of people this season.

[@FedtTony]

I think I would prefer if m0 dropped the highest ilvl and m+ levels just added additional loot/crests/tmogs/achievements. So people could go slower or faster but end up with similar performing gear in the end. M+ should be a challenge people do for fun, not something required to get upgrades.

[@evelynraczkowska8281]

Haha, you are soooo right. I lost my sh.. about that today too. Also said why they can't organise m+ like delves. I tried to time a nw 11 after 3 hours I just gave it up. My own key got killed by a tank, he told us to stay back he will big pull and bring them back.... he run, pulled everything left grp and dungeon. We just started the key ... i was confused. I did this dungeon 5 times till it was finally finished 🎉

[@noble_draconian]

6:25 I LOL'd pretty hard because I'm 100% guilty of doing this in brakenhide as an evoker. Tank was big pulling and taking a route I hadn't seen before. I accidentally pulled a big pack, panicked & popped a hover to the other side of the tank. Wiped ensued, was promptly removed.

[@Spanakopitaa]

make each key have a speciic number of stacks that you can deplete before it is automatically lowered, eg 3 tries on a +15, if you fail all 3, it goes to 14 That way you allow for mistakes to happen but you also stop abusing people who for example fail the first 2-3 pulls and just start over and over again

[@Lowkey-NoPressure]

We need a solo queue M+. We already basically have it just with extra steps. Time to make it official. Forget carrying keys in your backpack or whatever. You just queue up for X level. So there's no downgrading because there's no key. You just queue up. The key thing made more sense when the affixes weren't standardized, so you never knew what you were gonna get.

[@Edga777]

I always thought that blizz should add charge system on keys. For example key has 5 charges. If you deplete 5 times key drops.

[@KiLoB0-WoW]

Depletions are terrible for everyone. At the high key level, we can’t practice keys reliably at all. We just hope our re rolls are good. If the key level dropping wasn’t a thing, LFG would open up a lot more since people won’t be so afraid to have to have to do a homework key just to play the game again.

[@lukaswojtyla285]

Worst part is that you only lose a key as the owner. No risk for the people that fuck your key 😂

[@cyntheticgaming]

So I was going to comment on the topic itself but just wanted to say that for the quality of your commentary your channel should have so many more subs! Keep up the good work!

[@Reps1991]

There is a reason most DPS wait Hours if even get invited to a grp. If you got depletion, people try to not gonna risk it and invite only people with high/higher xp /Meta specs. Idk why this is a thing

[@seeks6272]

PUSH YOUR OWN KEY nobody said you have to join other peoples shit if you want to invite whatever be that guy gon push your key and invite whatever

[@Pr0vidence555]

I am enjoying my M+ journey so far.

[@minnakangaspuoskari]

I pug only low keys. I got a guild/friend group to do little higher keys with. But overall my approach to a key is getting it done. I am more about getting shit to my vault or getting even a chance to get the BiS item that I'd love. I suggest making more friends for keys.

[@prosansmeta8662]

Absolutely agree. Key depletion and a lack of dinar system (eventual guaranteed loot) for M+ is why I have unsubbed from WoW. It is not fun that in M+ there may be 20+ trinkets to chance-roll within just THREE great vault slots EACH WEEK and that week after week we may not see anything we want/need.

[@sandraganadi7896]

Was doing keys in Shadowlands, now i don't even ask to get in a mitick+0. This is gotten so bad, rather not progress than loosing my shit like you dude.

[@kozstreamstv]

Dude I was just saying this exact thing this week. I ran 24 keys and it was just ++11 then 2 min dead 12s. This system is garbage, not only do you get punished for failling a key by depletion, you get less crests IF YOU FINISH IT. Up until now I was getting 3.2K IO and able to pug most high keys, now, 12's are so completely dead and I have no desire to play alts because of it. I think challenger's peril is partially to blame as well, 15 second death timer, plus losing CDs, plus losing lust, its like the whole system is based on punishing you with as little lube as possible. I also say this in my most recent video, they need to consider adding a second keystone that starts at 12 and cannot be depleted below that. So you have 1 keystone from 2-11 and another 12 and up, cause yea i've 2 chested most 11's and have no io left. Not sure what realm you play on but I'm tank main and if our times line up would love to get some more people to run with consistently. LMK.

[@joehudson7007]

They need to rework the key system. 2 main goals they need to achieve: 1. Force people to do lower key levels once 2. Remove the pain of degradation How do we acheive this? Keys no longer have levels associated with them, and players must beat a key level to even have the option to do the next, and when you use a key for a dungeon, you select the level you're doing it at, and all players in the party must have that level unlocked to do it. Maybe allow jumping 2 levels for clearing fast enough. And you may ask, why do people need to be forced to do lower level keys? So newcomers ease themself and learn instead of jumping into the deep end. To prevent someone who has never done M+ to jump immediately into a +12 and brick a key despite miraculously having ilvl for it. I know IO score still would be a factor to prevent it currently. The only thing I'm uncertain of is if it should be a global seasonal level cap, or a individual dungeon level cap.

[@wellwhatever2787]

New player here. I worked my way through the season towards the 8s (not in all dungeons tho) and quite happy to have my source of gilded crests at long last. Overall I'm feeling ok at the place that I'm at and hopefully will improve over time, but I can imagine the struggle players are going through pugging m+ close to the difficulty ceiling. So yeah, reasonable complaints in this video.

[@SalvLav]

What caused you to start playing?

[@IJKez]

I would like to hear this video with the jingle of Alice’s Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie playing in the background. If you know you know. It’s perfect, the cadence, the story telling, everything.

[@FrÔstytips-u7i]

words of gold brother

[@bearbarbie]

269 DEATHS?! OH MY GOD

[@dkexpat2755]

Happy its not only the pvp community who is pissed off.

[@zalronwow7222]

I don't mind and think the depletion should be kept ... BUT, people dropping group needs to be addressed and is the only time a concession needs to be made. Like an hour deserter CD if the key holder doesn't reset the instance (with the full group still intact) and the dungeon isn't complete or something like that. If you cannot complete the key within the time, it should deplete, since you probably can't do it at that level and no penalty will take the fun out of it.

[@aladdin9098]

im just not a raider and i enjoy m+ SO MUCH MORE.. ppl leaving can be super frustrating, especially when they wont get punished

[@marcvsaurelius7570]

I think they should just make it do that once you complete a dungeon on a certain level it doesn’t deplete. So for example if you cleared 11 dawn breaker a 12 wouldn’t depleted but if you cleared 11 and failed a 13 it would deplete to 12. Then make it per dungeon. If you fail a 12 dawn breaker it doesn’t deplete but if you only cleared a 9 stone vault then a 12 stone vault will deplete.

[@scniccawhois]

funniest shit ive seen this morning. thank you

[@ProblemOfficer3000]

I did City of Threads 9, three times yesterday only for the pug idiots to leave after dying to an avoidable boss mechanic or not helping the healer escape the avoidable boss mechanic

[@Unf0rget]

Yeah, no matter what I avoid M+ whenever retail pulls me back in. I hate time limits in dungeons so I just have nothing to say. M+ is here to stay so my interest in wow end game has been crushed further. Sucks.

[@Laptican]

I personally think by the end of Season 1, maybe 2 M+ is gonna get a complete revamp. I know that top players like Growl, Naowh, Jak etc really hate the current state of Mythic+. I'm also doing 15-16's myself and honestly it's the worst is has ever been, especially with pugs (i only do 10-11's with pugs for weekly on my alts but it's still really bad). Thank you for bringing this to more people's attention, i know you're a small youtuber but 5.7k views and 199 comments in a day really says alot.

[@terry9819]

Depletion only exists to support the stupid timer, and Blizzard are being really stubborn about fixing their mistakes.

[@Nekromi34]

Didn't think about it until now, but depletion is the mechanic that really makes people care about that specific dungeon run. You don't lose io when you fail so without depletion I think people would be leaving keys after the first death or sign of trouble. I dono tho could be wrong.

[@Nekromi34]

I can just imagine it becoming do this insane first pull of the dungeon 20x until we get lucky and then we can continue the key.

[@kelinoxx3469]

I think the core of m+ (aka speedrunning dungeons) Is bad, but if they wanna do a simple yet useful solution, not depleting the key is an easy "fix"

[@WorldlyBudget]

I’d rather run random time walking dungeons with my tank.

[@pippinjunior2109]

I literally hate pugs asking if I'm trying to compete in the MDI if we pull big ( as marked on the route shared before we started ) it's like bro no I'm not trying to copy the MDI but A. 1 pack at a time is boring and B. MDI or not you HAVE to do some of these pulls bigger to time keys as they get higher.. better to do those pulls as well on lower keys instead of rocking up to a 14 and doing a ginormous pull you've never even practiced before. If you wipe to a big pull its not cause your tank is trying to copy the MDI its a legitimate way to practice the same pull that will become mandatory on a higher key level.

[@ai_serf]

a) if the game is that buggy, we shouldn't play, b) you know they design it like this on purpose?, that is key depletion. it keeps people hooked and model's addiction, how something can never be consistent and we're constantly chasing a dragon.

[@ArmandMehicic]

a) is true, b) is you should touch grass

[@天使霜]

Exactly this... dungeons are just the steps on the road to raiding. M+ is completely optional after a certain point. Absurd to ask for no downsides for failure.

[@t.z.1798]

Love how you gave this story life 😊 very entertaining. What me bothers is nobody wants to progress keys. Its just time it or leave it. just pugging 10s now, fck my premade 😁 hope you are doing more videos

[@gooseg3822]

I thought about the timer a lot and there is no way around it. Having no timer would come to a point where your ceiling is waiting for list on almost every pull. The problem is more the demonising returns as soon as you deplete. You should just get 12 crests as well when you deplete. You completed the dungeon after all.

[@robertkolbe3751]

Getting rid of the depletion mechanic would also encourage players to try more random comps and invite players they wouldn't invite because they don't have to fear that their key gets depleted

[@DavidWKimber]

This is why I've been solo for so long now. And it sucks b/c I really want to experience the game at a higher level but I just don't trust people to not rage and make everything feel bad.

[@bobbilling1075]

I love it when you can just tell by the dialogue of the party for the first two minutes from joining that they are going to be complete garbage and then they proceed to completely prove you right within two minutes of the dungeon

[@86Corvus]

Key depletion is a good mechanic

[@cht7669]

Because for developers, they want u to spend all your time on the game, that’s what they want. As player, we want smoother game play experience, we want to get high level items as quickly as possible, this is definitely against their interests. They want you to spend time and money this month and next month and next month.

[@stunsisacul]

I can’t help running the problem is that players get so overconfident. I’m a tank almost exclusively. There is no such thing as a carry for a tank. High level DPS can help, a lot, but if you can’t handle the thump you’ll be in the dump. People push too hard too fast. Especially now that they’ve done the mythic level squash.

[@imagineenjoying6664]

To this day i am heavily confused how the oh so integritiy rich social experiment that blizzard activision has become was able to tolerate the insane amount of toxicity this system has implemented in their game culture.

[@satan8175]

i don't understand why wow players are always so scared to "hate/give feedback" on the game. It's literally the most expensive game on the market. If any game your voice should be heard its this one lol

[@Guddrog]

I get it and I would also prefer not to have my key depleted, so I can try again until I time the key, but with the current system, you just need full premade group if you want to do 12s. When we deplete 12, we have to do 11 sure, but this is an opportunity for us to try new strategies, so we keep learning as a group. When you pug, you just roll a dice every time, learning nothing and I pesonally would rather quit the game than deal with what you just described.

[@VDHmain]

Yeah io goblins are the ones complaining all over the place, and the real reason they can't do 12s is that they don't prog 12s, they leave at the first mistake. It's like only practicing the first third of a song and then wondering why you can't play the whole thing.

[@MikeGalosi]

we only have so much time to live, no time for key depletion mate

[@jonlane6527]

@@VDHmain 12s are very puggable but theres some things you need to communicate prior. Lust locations for example. Routes are sometimes good to know if theres a skip you're responsible for. I've found in my experience pugs fall apart because they treat a 12 like its a 5.

[@muphsiprivate]

@@MikeGalosi But you have the time to apply to groups, get into one, play for 5 minutes and then leave at the first mistake? that is an absurd waste of time.

[@Its_Just_Tim]

I pugged my way to KSM in dragonflight because I had never done M+ before and it was torture. WoW players are such babies about the smallest problems and instead of answering the question of “I’m sorry, how should I do this?” they just call you slurs and then leave.

[@MrCyberMuffin]

Easy solution: dont pug 12s. I dont understand why you'd even want to do that.

[@dantedante8837]

you had me until you mentioned the word "delves" after that i realized that this is all a parody

[@CptSauce]

This is why I stopped at 3k. Farming 12s over and over just to do my 13s is dumb af. Tank folds in 2 globals or evokers bringing nothing to the table, love it.

[@axelotl86]

I only do lower keys but it’s the same. Just the same. I rather run hundred of T11 delves before I invest more time in M+.

[@commandershepard7728]

If you removed key depletion and the timer is be happy - even when you are not the problem and someone else’s screws up people dip…. With out those mechanics maybe people would stick around and actually work on progress

[@NeonAtari]

I tried running a dungeon back in BfA, a mythic can't even remember the key level or whatever. It was not a good experience and I have never again ran one.

[@ProblemOfficer3000]

You should be able to report people that dont use their abilities for griefing as well, had a ret paladin with 3 rebukes whole dungeon calling us the gamer word and 'jelaous of his damage'

[@post_rot]

i love everything about m+, just wish i had friends to play with

[@ZippSoloTCG]

u earned yourself a new sub PLEASE KEEP THIS UP

[@Chimpmanboom]

The problem is 4-6 mechanics can 1 shot you. It’s way harder than the raid.

[@joeblack2809]

Oh my Lord the rage at that poor foolish shaman 😂🤣😂. My Man’s raging at the elements themselves. I’m surprised you didn’t report him 😂

[@retrohanska4441]

I've been saying this same thing for over two expansions now. Blizzard can balance and fine tune the mode in every way imaginable but if player receives negative progress after already horrible run that wasted their time, none of that effort is gonna matter. It's gonna remain just as unappealing. The community is gonna remain just as paranoid towards each other. The devs have done so much to make the game respect player's time in last couple of years so I don't get why this is the one hill they're willing to die on.

[@Coldkil666]

I never use my own keys because it's just faster to apply for a thousand groups. My major gripe is that since i pug 99% of the time, all the time spent in a dungeon most of the times is just wasted because if it's not timed someone leaves and you get literally nothing out of it. Count 20ish mins to get a group, 15ish for a run, you just wasted half an hour (if it's good) for nothing. Counting i can play for like 2 hours and a half, it means that i can easily get 1 or zero shit done so it gets tiring very fast. TWW just made it more prominent, it's been like this forever and apparently "no one" cared. Maybe because it was way easier before, and now most people are having a bad time.

[@samward1317]

Previously you didn't need to care that much because you only needed to do 8s to get vault. Now you need to do 10s, a whole lot of people are playing out of their depth.

[@Coldkil666]

@samward1317 for sure, and this dips again in the "people like easy stuff" argument. Most players simply don't care about preparation, rotations or whatever anyone can tell me it's important. They just want to get their things done and get the rewards. Or in other terms, just play the game. To me gear should be just a mean to an end and not the reward itself.

[@Killerblutak]

Changes for mythic+: No keys, difficulty select at start by party leader No timer, mythic raids don't have a timer why should mythic+

[@ole2080]

The stuck thing in Dawnbreaker happened to 2 ppl of my last 13 aswell, other stucks happened also in Stonevault and other TWW Dungeons and its so tilting to get your key depleted by spaghetti code, makes it a complete joke

[@felipesoberanski4724]

i haven't even touched mythics this season, been doing only raids and delves and it has been great. Only do mythics with guildies, fuck it if the key breaks, the important part is to have fun

[@GhettoFabuloso]

For being frustrated, you still managed to make this coherent. Props to that. The only thing I'll challenge you on is the idea of you deserving to do 12 because you've proven yourself on 11's. I guess my friend group is different but we've never really viewed it as 11's being cleared content, but instead the key representing a win streak with higher rewards the longer and higher it goes on. I can understand the frustration entirely, especially in public queues. Thoughts?

[@mizzymk1475]

Keys under 10 should not deplete