Myths vs truths of analog & digital vinyl mastering (feat. Kevin Gray)

There are a lot of misconceptions and myths tied to the analog and digital mastering of vinyl. In this episodes we try to untangle some of these with one of the maximum authorities in the field, Kevin Gray of Cohearent Audio.
LINKS:
Cohearent Audio system video: • Kevin Gray - Cohearent...
Cohearent Audio website: www.cohearent.com/
Half-speed mastering video: • Vinyl Half-Speed Maste...
DMM video: • DMM: Direct Metal Mast...
10 things of current vinyl releases that piss me off!: • 10 things of current v...
Digital delay: • Digital Delay: The lit...
Loudness wa on vinyl: • Digital Vinyl: What's ...
INDEX:
0:00 - Intro
0:47 - Mastering definition
2:56 - Half-speed mastering
5:44 - Direct metal mastering
8:05 - Signal chain
9:23 - Low frequencies cutting
13:17 - High frequencies cutting
16:24 - 33RPM vs 45RPM
18:35 - Analog & digital delay
21:56 - Mastering from & for high-res / DSD
25:31 - Digital vs analog mastering percentages
27:18 - Audiophile vs "normal" cuts focus
28:52 - Mass-produce vs audiophile vinyl
31:30 - Tube vs solid state mastering
38:08 - Loudness war vs vinyl
41:17 - Extreme high frequencies mastering (slight return)
42:27 - Reissues vs originals
44:39 - Old vs new vinyl manufacturing
47:50 - Cohearent Records
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#vinylmastering #vinylcommunity #kevingray

[@davidrivera2165]

Wow, Kevin Gray, a master of Mastering Analog. This one is a Grand Slam home Run Guido.

[@MrJasonMeans]

Love it - great discussion. Regarding vinyl - I have OCD and vinyl really helps me slow down and relax, listening to an album, not skipping a song every 30 seconds because of my brain

[@SkunkieDesignsElectronics]

Amazing interview, so much GREAT information!!!

[@NickP333]

Hey Stephe 👋🎶😊 100%! A bunch of my audio nerd / record collector friends have interviewed Kevin, but Guido easily had some of the best questions out of them. Probably the best info I’ve heard from Kevin to date. His fantastic work speaks for itself. I can’t think of a single record I own mastered by KG that doesn’t sound excellent, especially some of the jazz titles.

[@EddyTeetree]

"Direct Metal Mastering for Mind Control" L. Ron Hubbard👽 hahaha

[@lucalone]

Kevin Gray !!! Holy Cow !!! Audio Mastering Master !! Like I always say: KPG in the run out groove is a sign of quality !

[@matytinman]

👏👏👏👏👏 Thank you very much for the great interview. It is nice to listen to real experts. BTW, I have a lot of music mastered by Kevin Gray. 🤗 - Greetings from Tarragona (SPAIN) -

[@ontherun8]

Hi maty. Great posts by you @HRM (DocRob) in the days. Ciao

[@jimmyb207]

Thank you Guido for this revealing interview with the great Kevin Gray. I love his masterings! Your interview and thoughtful questions took much of the mystery out of the mastering process and the many components that surround it.

[@cobar5342]

Great video - really interesting to know what half speed cutting does to either end of the frequency bands

[@filmnarr163]

Guido/Kevin thanks! What a tight, well organized and informative Q/A... Your channel is getting better and better! 🤩

[@anadialog]

Thank you so much! 🙏

[@piet65]

Guido, congratulations for this incredibly interesting and detailed interview. Great guys come together to talk about all the most interesting questions of the community, top! 🙂

[@alanandtheants]

Thanks for a great interview!! Nice to hear a deeper interview with KG.

[@NickP333]

Guido, this was an absolutely brilliant interview with Kevin. You asked so many great questions that I’m sure he’s never heard before. You had a fresh take on things, and that’s very much appreciated. Haha! 🤣 Great to hear Kevin talk about that particular person (Anyone who’s been involved with records / HiFi / etc., even for a few years knows exactly who he’s referring to) who sells standard pressings of records he’s “personally selected”. Once someone starts talking sh*t about an amazing engineer like Kevin is obviously threatened by his fantastic work.

[@HiViNewsByRegina111]

I love Kevin Gray because of his fantastic work. Keep on spinning, Kevin. Blessings from Germany

[@LyndonSoulGroove]

Wow loving this makes me realise why some records sound over compressed. However as my system as got better I'm able to enjoy old releases for 1950's Nat King Cole to 1980's even K-tel compilation Lp's sound good. The 1983 Pop/Dance track Freeeze I.O.U i've never heard so good on Vinyl ( 33rpm on compliition form 1983 ) Recently bought the Kevin grey Mater of Donald Bird - Palaces & Spaces, Change ...Makes you want to hustle .. Perfect track for a Jazz funk party & good music to accompany A video of the changes in music Recording technology over the years..

[@pytaniedodcf9230]

Thanks for a great interview!! By the way. Yes - 90125 SACD, mastered by Kevin Gray - "Item will be re-manufactured". Maybe some of you know if it's due to mastering or bad pressing?

[@toulcaz31]

Thank you so much for giving us access to such reference! We are super lucky this weekend with Rick Beato also publishing a 3h interview of Brendan O'brien. It's more about the music but I am pretty sure you will dig that one too. Thanks again.

[@bryanpaden7495]

Superb interview Guido! Questions and responses were masterful!!! Thanks for convincing Kevin Gray to do this for us.

[@signaturemusicservices]

Awesome interview Guido have a great weekend.

[@kruzerken]

Fantastic interview, thanks!

[@latheofheaven]

Wow! Guido... That was absolutely *FANTASTIC!* And, you know what... Honestly... that was by FAR *THE* best interview with Kevin Gray I have ever heard. Hands down! You know why...? Because you had such a nice, respectful, pleasant manner that I feel you were able to draw out and engage Kevin WAY more than anyone else that I've seen. With many others, he comes across as more stiff, and stilted, almost like he is censoring himself or holding back. BUT... with you, he seemed so much more forthcoming and actually eager to talk about all these great topics that you had chosen. I mean it Guido... I got a *HELL* of a lot more out of this interview with him than ANY other one. I was literally hanging on every word! A frigg'n masterful, awesome job Bro! 👍 I'm not gay, but being Italian myself, I would kiss you on the cheek!

[@anadialog]

I am overwhelmed by your comment. Thank you so much. It really gives everything a sense. Once again thanks for your feedback which I know from your other comments is very honest, since you have also genuinely and politely criticized me in the past (which is very helpful when done sincerely and nicely) Thanks! ❤️

[@pabloficosecco7473]

Buenísimo Guido!!! Felicitaciones por tu trabajo y gracias!!

[@filmnarr163]

Kevin is such a fine guy not to mention the name of his "basher". May I give a hint? "Better Records" aka "The Skeptical Audiophile"... I hate it!

[@stimpy1226]

Guido… You definitely came prepared to do this video interview. This is very special for me to soak in but I am learning an awful lot about this industry. Thank you once again Guido and thank you Kevin Gray for taking this incredibly informative interview

[@theoinmaine2485]

Great interview, Guido. You got the best out of Kevin!

[@solarrobot]

Absolutely outstanding video Guido! Please do more programs like this one!

[@anadialog]

Thanks! Have you seen the one with the president of Speakers Corner? Very interesting IMO: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2WTZoR-apqWhM0si=2Cnqc5zSAE2Sk46E

[@shanestephenson8423]

Fantastic Guido!!!! Kevin Grey is brilliant, and this was a fascinating interview. I watched it from start to end and was fixed to my phone.🎧🙂👍

[@Raymondey]

Great interview!

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

Top shelf interview topic and guest - thank you from Ontario Canada sir !

[@mymixture965]

GREAT interview. I am a musician, I know all the stuff he talks about and this video is great to send to persons who don't believe me.

[@jeffbrown-hill7739]

46:00 So you're telling me all my old records are probably tainted with lead??! Damn.

[@MrJoca72]

Great interview 👍 I wish you would have asked Kevin about the cutting process on modern mono-record reissues. Original mono-records clearly benefit from being play-backed using a mono-cartridge as back then the cutting-heads used were all monophonic, but there is some debate about the modern cutting process and the usage of stereo-cartridges on those mono-reissues. Many audiophiles are still confused about the advantages or not on getting a mono-cartridge to play mono-reissues. It would have been very interesting to hear Kevin’s explanation on this issue. Regardsf

[@anadialog]

Good point, taking notes on all these interesting comments for a future second round!

[@MrJoca72]

@@anadialog Thank you so much Guido 🙏 Really hope you can help us clarify this question once and for all 🤗 Best regards from Sweden

[@chriss6302]

@@MrJoca72 Agree with comments, thank you for pointing this out. I would certainly like to get more information on the topic of Mono reissues.

[@louiesipes2257]

Great interview 😊👍

[@insurrectionindustries1706]

I loved the interview and would also love to learn about rebuilding cutting heads. That would rock!

[@net_news]

Guido, Kevin guys you are AMAZING!!! One of the best if not the best audio interviews I've ever listened!!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@anadialog]

These are the comments that give me the strength to continue, thank you so much! (and tanks to Kevin!)

[@net_news]

@@anadialog 💪

[@jonathanthomas4722]

Thanks! Great video and wonderful knowledge. Also, it's nice to see Kevin cares about educating the community and setting certain issues straight. BTW, anyone wondering, his Cohearent Records LPs are fantastic- both the Edkins and Wilson. Listened to Wilson just yesterday.

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

Kevin Gray destroys MOFI in a sentence 😂 and it's true technically and in reality what he stated.

[@Thestereosteve]

Thank you. This was amazing.

[@garyherman6623]

Great job Guido for a well handled interview that put Kevin at ease. It's a real testament to you that he seemed eager to do more interviews. It's well worth the $40 per album for a well recorded and produced product. Venus Productions from Japan, Versailles , and Barclay have some great jazz offerings as well. If you haven't already, it'd be nice to devote some time to quality , off the beaten path labels.

[@anadialog]

Taking notes!📝

[@gerihifi]

CIAO GUIDO AND MANY, MANY THANKS TO KEVIN! Its so important to bring this topic up for us crazy Audiophiles. Its all about source Material!! 😊 would love to see more of those Interviews with people from the recording industry!! I'd say like the Lost Recordings, frech finest or EMC 😅

[@nyquist5190]

About the digital delay: according to Mr Gray the use of digital delay started in the mid 90s when vinyl started its comeback. But it is common knowledge that it was used already in the late 1970s onwards.

[@anadialog]

Not in the late 70’s, in 1979. I did a dedicated video on the subject. That was a novelty and very expensive. Very few had that system. Only when digital picked up digital delay was widespread and I think Kevin meant when it really exploded for the reasons he explained in the interview. Here is my video on the topic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioDYgneDrsSSh80si=yN3jwsqj92-9uwNg

[@mcintoshkid]

great show ty.

[@Blacktearlazyqueen]

happy to see a lot of your knowledge being backed up. Especially as you are the first to admitt being wrong when it points out not to be the truth.

[@thevinylmuseum2958]

Excellent work Guido. I ENJOYED ALL 51:06 minutes of this discussion. You nailed it when you said KPG is the master of his trade. I own many pressing by Kevin Gray and seek them out whenever I can. You need to seek out the Blade Runner Vangelis from Audio Fidelity, I own the red vinyl version and Kevin nailed it on the db for the low end on this release. Killer. How about that nice win from Leclerc on Sunday. Forza Ferrari.

[@bryede]

If you think the popularity of those cheap suitcase players doesn't affect you, remember that mastering is being done with their limitations in mind. Also, there's got to be a material between lacquer and copper that would make a better alternative to DMM.

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

@7:16 ' DMM' has a sort of digital sound - the one LP I had which was Mother's Milk by RHCP was DMM - and that's exactly how I described it - very digital sounding. Anemic in the bass !!! IT was a clear recording though , most people wouldn't notice especially today with the digital to analog vinyl transfers.

[@chriss6302]

Thank you Guido & Kevin. Very interesting & useful information. Regarding the mention of War - Greatest Hits: I think Kevin was referring to the 2LP 'Greatest Hits 2.0' which was issued in 2021, not the recent Analogue productions 2LP 45RPM version of the original album cut by Ryan Smith.

[@anadialog]

Indeed, he cut the single record gold one (which has the same program as the original)

[@funknote7734]

Great !

[@Blacktearlazyqueen]

Best of the Best. MfG

[@marcbegine]

Fabulous video Guido. Long live ANALOG😎

[@eugeniodinardo3881]

Ciao Guido e grazie!!! Kevin is a true master, and so down to earth, and common sense interesting. I’m in the process of building my vinyl collection. I want great recordings, without the sales pitch hype on remastering. can you recommend a good online vinyl record site servicing North America? Grazie Lille, ciao, Eugenio

[@anadialog]

Thank YOU! Unfortunately I don’t, maybe other reading can help you. I am Italian (well 50%) and live in Italy so I know more the places on this side of the pond.

[@磁鬼頻率]

Good interview. I would like to put out there though that in the audiophile world, it seems that theres a school of thought where compression is a taboo thing to do to music. Of course overcompression is real, and should be avoided... but general, compression can also be applied musically and can do wonders for music. It's not only used for maximising loudness for digital as most audiophiles relate it to, but it is also used to give music glue, more excitement, pump and groove, levelling overly dynamic fluctuations in volume and so on. There's definitely a place for compression in mastering! It's another tool that can be used or abused.

[@anadialog]

Thanks! You are talking about the use of mic and summing compressors (hopefully tube). That is a different story and of course it is used to to what you say and much more. When we talk about the loudness war and general compression we are talking about mastering compression and by mastering I don’t mean acetate mastering but the creation of the master of a record from its mix for a dedicated medium. They are two different things.

[@磁鬼頻率]

@anadialog hi and thanks for response. I was talking about mastering compression!

[@filmnarr163]

@@磁鬼頻率 Then it should not be forgotten, that there is a big difference soundwise between analog and digital compression. Both produce different artefacts. Analog compression can have nice effects, that You are describing - digital compression mostly wants me to leave the room...

[@磁鬼頻率]

@filmnarr163 I'm actually talking about analog mastering... I.e from tape and mastered through hardware. And yes, I agree that digital is inferior to analog sound-wise. Even hi res digital losses feel compared to analog. But I digress.

[@磁鬼頻率]

@filmnarr163 I also want to leave the room regarding compression, but it's usually due to over-compression, not digital vs analog compression. Both can sound good. Data compression on the other hand...

[@sammys_erLeben]

sometimes it sounds so easy .... but, only if a master is on the mic // thanks !!!

[@timgibson3754]

I dug it

[@GIBKEL]

Is it still compressed when burning or just on playback in iTunes?

[@jos5067]

A real man cave over there, thanks!

[@kenknight5983]

Michael Fremer said the digital delay thing was an urban myth. Wishful thinking. My question is which records to avoid

[@anadialog]

No, ho didn’t, at least not in what I saw and read from him and actually spoke about 8 bit digital delay in Japan. He just said correctly that the high quality labels of today don’t use it and that is certainly true. In any case Kaven explained it and clearly and sadly it is not a myth and mainly used in today standard releases

[@albertomauri4566]

Ciao Guido, il nome corretto del "guy di Bologna" è Roberto Barbolini...

[@anadialog]

Si, si ho visto. Sono andato subito a controllare, grazie!

[@jctai100]

Man I learned a lot from this and maybe a new career as I move forward in life???

[@anadialog]

Cool! If this brings that kind of inspiration, I am a happy man!

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

@18:25 destroys the flow of a 'traditional' format LP 100% - works well for EP's Singles ect.. - but I'm not complaining if I have a full length version on 45 if it's cut properly.

[@TheSoundrookie]

Hi Guido. Man, you sound nervous. But who wouldn't when talking to God? Don't think anyone can blame you for that, and this is such a great interview. Thank you thank you thank you... One thing I would have liked to hear is his honest opinion about 180 gr records, because I think there's an even more destructive hype there than half speed mastering (which is bad enough). Stay cool Mate.

[@anadialog]

Yes, actually the delay was making me crazy so at times it was hard to communicate and broke the flow, and that made me nervous. Taking notes for a future episode!

[@piTiTou]

Hi, I see a way to de-esse with analog gears with half speed mastering (that is not ideal of course): it's to pitch an octave up (with an analog pitch shifter) before entering the (analog) de-esser (or any gear make to correct the top-end) and then pitch an octave down after the de-esser (still with an analog pitch shifter of course) to then cut the lacquer. But using a pitch shifter changes the sound (and generally, those changes are loss in quality), so that's not ideal and the second pitch shifter would not reverse back the (modified) signal, it would change the sound even more. I don't understand the loss of an octave in the bass frequencies, of course if you have any kind of low-cut (AKA hi-pass, expression that I really find disturbing), you have either to use the 2 pitch shifter technique also with that low-cut (with 2 more changes in the sound) and if it's the cuter that is limited to hi-fi standard (20 Hz to 20 kHz), then, first it's a stupid design (IMHO) to limit the frequencies in the cuter it-self, but, second, that means that frequencies bellow 40 Hz would be lost that is not really dramatic except if very low tuning are used purposely by the artist. Bye.

[@Myuzu]

I think your idea have some sense. Good analog de-esser has a sidechain input, so you split your signal in two: one original that would be processed, and one with octave up on sidechain input that would trigger the processing on the first channel. This way no octave down would be required. Also you will probably need to adjust attack/release times and frequency/range.

[@piTiTou]

Except that if you use a sidechain, the de-esseur would work on the wrong octave and remove frequences an octave higher then the one it needs to remove. Besides, I thought on the bass problem and I think that that comes from the vinyl technologies' limitation, a too low signal would be on the records and so, at least (if it does not creates more problems like making the pick-up jump to another groove), the groove would need to be a lot more spaced and there would be a lot less music cutable in the vinyl, so a low-cut is indeed needed and not stupid.

[@Myuzu]

@@piTiTou For low cuts, absolutely, that's vinyl limitation :( As for sidechain, i think the frequency should be the same as mastered at half speed, and you can change them as well as the range on some devices. But the biggest issue, is that there is no analog de-esser i can find that can do all of this in the same time, there are some mentions of diy mods.

[@Myuzu]

@@piTiTou Just checked DAW with ProDS. It kinda works. Rendered track with pitch shifter octave up, then sidechained to ProDS (no tweaks, just sidechain) on original track. Half speed playback and it's working kind off ok, just much more aggressively than normal deesser.

[@markmalasics3413]

God, I miss Emory Cook.

[@preservedmoose]

I wonder if Kevin is creating a digital copy of the Blue Note catalogue that he’s working through? His comments about record quality is very interesting in light of the current vogue of the original records being the best sounding version, which he does not seem to agree with.

[@anton88ist]

I would say it is debatable. Kevin Gray's profession is cutting records and if he would say the original issues usually sound best and better than the re-issues would that not be self-defeating?

[@preservedmoose]

@@anton88ist I don’t think so. He comes across as genuine, though who knows.

[@REX4340]

Digital delay is still widely used!😢

[@anadialog]

Of course it is, it is actually the standard in NON audiophile releases.

[@REX4340]

@@anadialog did you try the digital version of his LP, not very good imo

[@timgibson3754]

I don't have the luxury of finding a "good" copy. Whatever the artist did is what I get.

[@asaholey]

Reissues will never sound better than the original. Equipments are better now but the old master will continue degrading.

[@anadialog]

Never is not a reliable statement. It is true that tape is degrading but not as much as you would thing. We got to stop spreading false narratives heard from someone (me included) and verify. On this subject I have made a dedicated video some time ago based on a peer reviews scientific article which explains why now it a new golden age of analog: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5a6pJ1vjKuDj9Usi=x8aJLHnenZUwMrlK

[@asaholey]

@@anadialog Tape degrading means losing quality. Even a small degree of degradation results in a loss that no audio engineer can restore. So, how can you expect them to make it better?

[@adamphillips1263]

@@asaholey Absolute statements such as Never, Always, All, None, etc., are likely to be proven inaccurate if one digs deep enough. Is it true that tape degrades over time? Surely. Many factors may compound to increase degradation or ensure preservation. Tapes stored wrapped up in an old towel and stored in the leaking trunk of a Volkswagen beetle or in an Arizona storage unit are bound to degrade more than in a proper archival facility. Two different batches of tape produced during the same week and stored in an archive vault can degrade differently, as well. As Mr. Gray stated, a lot of factors during production impacted how records sounded, lacquers cut at the same time, but vinyl pressed in different plants. Did the temperature of the vinyl biscuit in New Jersey cause a record to sound worse than it could have? Maybe. Did it reduce quality of that original pressing more than the amount of tape degradation in a current pressing? Who knows? What matters is, does the record sound good to the person who owns it, on their system, and in their listening space? I believe you have unnecessarily placed limitations on your opportunities to enjoy good music, but you are free to believe and do what you want. If the freshness of the original master were the only factor, your rationale may have weight. Unfortunately, a multitude of factors are ignored which leads me to disbelieve your opinion. Regardless, I hope you enjoy the records you have.

[@asaholey]

@@adamphillips1263 Yes. Then you buy reissue and I buy original pressing.

[@jackfalco5351]

Disappointed you didn’t have the nerve to challenge him on the fact that original pressings in most cases sound better than most Audiophile reissues. Why that is somebody must know!

[@asaholey]

Correct

[@anadialog]

Well, I did touch this question but we focused on Jazz reissues and actually I think it is the opposite. For other genres, in several cases, don’t know if in most, ogs are better. Not a difficult question actually, it just didn’t seem that important. Perhaps we can touch that next time. No problem from my side.

[@stimpy1226]

Vinyl is a double edge sword even though it’s definitely the best sounding version of any recording. Never bothered me until the CD came out and I saw the advantages of not having to get up every 20 minutes turn the record over, see some dust and clean it off before I drop the stylus again. Not fun.

[@CuriousEnthusiast956]

Convenience is not always a substitute for quality.

[@johnholmes912]

R2R analogue is the best, but is very expensive

[@userzeldalink]

Just because you are kinda lazy doesn’t mean vinyl isn’t a good format - in contrast I like flipping the LP so that I could get my spin relax a bit from work pose.

[@Casualfulltime]

Nice negative video 🤣

[@kostependrhs]

STOP moving your head all the time!

[@BlAcKpHrAcK]

A shimmy through popular music, that stops to explore some clashic Jazz, by ..Dizloneous Ra. Re-timed an Eddie Murphy bit, some great 80s cheese-synth, chunkier somehow. DJ 13 - POCKET DJ Summer Mixes (64-Bit) 27 6 2023 Mix 3 [ONE TAKE, NO EDIT] kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHuue3RseKd2jJY