N Gauge Model Railway Layout Creating Scenery Along the Canal Elvenhome EP 146

[@stephenriley9084]

Stephen, You have captured an unkempt canal side very well!👍👍👍. Regards, Stephen

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks very much Stephen. It was fun bringing it all together. Stephen

[@grahammummery5732]

Love the scenery work on the canal Stephen. Really nice!

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks very much Graham. I always enjoy doing scenic work and it was very pleasing to see the area come to life as I started adding things. Stephen

[@roystudds1944]

Great video as always, Stephen. I like the vegetation around the canal area, it’s coming along nicely. I think you are right about doing the water last, as others have said, the temptation to put tools etc on the space would be too much. Look forward to seeing your next update. Thanks for sharing. Roy.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks very much Roy. The canal area came out very well and it didn't take too much time to get that effect. The PVA can stay in its bottle for a while while I get on with the other scenic work around that area. There is lots to do but it should keep me busy. Stephen

[@Wickford_N_Gauge]

Greetings Elvenhome and hello Stephen 👋 Great update 👍 loved the Pannier 😍 your's is so well behaved 😇 Beautiful work on the canal bank 😍 but as other's have said 🤔 I would work from the back and leave the PVA application till last 👍 Very best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Paul. I had to take pity on the Pannier. It has stood still for four or five months. It needed a bit of persuasion to start but once I let it run for 20 minutes of so it was back to its old self. I can move a way from the PVA bottle in view of the clear view I should leave that until last. That's good because I am keen to get on with the other bits of scenic work. Stephen

[@karlsage3064]

Another great video Stephen! Two thoughts I had, firstly to help blend in the retaining wall to the mainline run up to the excellent viaduct behind the scenic section you have just completed, add a few trees. To my mind this would blend in the exposed embankment wall and the canal side scenic work. Secondly, I agree with Steve, hold off on finishing the canal water! As Steve says, too tempting to put tools down on! I would fall straight into that trap!!

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Karl. I did wonder about some trees along there so I will take a look at my tree box and see what might go in. Thanks for the suggestion. I think the danger of the water getting something plonked in while working is too great, although I hadn’t thought of that until Steve mentioned it. My instinct was to do the water last so I will stick with that. Stephen

[@iansngauge]

Morning Stephen! Well done on getting the point motors sorted and getting them wired up to the lever frame unit! I think you're right about throttle not being great for changing points using DCC - unless you've only got a few! I'm hoping to use a cheap tablet with images that I click - although that's way off in the future for me! The scenic section around the canal is looking very good and really natural looking! Interestingly (or worryingly) my instinct would have been to pour the PVA canal first! If anything went wrong it may save having to up root other scenic details! Once done you could cover it with card to prevent it being damaged while you worked around it! Looking forward to the next update already! All the best, Ian.

[@Elvenhome]

Hi Ian and thanks. It was a little bit cross with myself that all the effort and problems of trying to get the points to work when I first wired them in, would have bene saved if I had only twigged that I was seeing exactly the same behaviour I had with points working without a CDU. But they all work fine now. I really enjoyed seeing the scenic section come together. It always surprises me that it does emerge in front of your eyes. I was in two minds about the PVA, but one of the points made in the comments, which I hadn't considered, was about something being set down on the PVA while I was working on something else. It remains quite pliable even when it has 'dried'. It is almost certain that I would end up putting something down absentmindedly and find my placid canal with a whirlpool in the middle. Stephen

[@stoney-ole2937]

Hi Stephen, I really like the new senic section, it looks very realistic. The mud is an interesting conundrum, I've not done the grass on the big hill on my layout as I can't work out if the muddy farm track and stone walls needs to be done before the grass or after, I'm leaning towards doing the grass last, but may need to have a bit of an experiment. I'm going to go against the grain and say I'd do the water first, mostly because I'm messy and wouldn't want to spoil the scenery on the sides by dripping pva glue on it. You can always cover the dried canal with bubble wrap or something to protect the surface of it whilst carrying out other work. Take care Gemma

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Gemma. I enjoyed doing the scenery. Something very calming in putting playing mother nature for a while. I am hoping the Gary from SettleCarlisle68 will comment on the mud. He's used it quite a bit You may want to go and look at his channel. On the PVA I wasn't sure but a point was made that has decided me to leave it until last. This was that it was quite likely something would be put down on it. Although the glue dries, or appears to, it remains very pliable. If anything of any weight is rested it on you get a nice imprint which you can't do anything about. So the basin will remain dry for the time being. Stephen

[@wheezypalacemodels7726]

Hi Stephen, all looking good and beginning to come together.. All the best, Chris

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks very muchChris. It is really starting to look right at the this section. Very little white foam board on display now. Stephen

[@paulofbramleyjunction4270]

Hi Stephen, great update. Loving the canal area, your scenic work is coming on great too. With regards to the front water part, I’d leave until you have completed the back scenic work, that way nothing is put to chance of getting either marked or damaged. Keep up the fantastic work, look forward to the next update video.👌🏻

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Paul. I a, going to leave the water until last. It seemed to me the better way of doing things but I thought I would test the hive mind and as ever, it has been very helpful in response. Stephen

[@peterjackson-cheadleheath1182]

Hi Stephen Lovely bit of scenery work , very overgrown, as Euan mentioned I thought 4mm and 6mm would be too 'out of scale' for N but if it works, I may well try it if I have a bit of overgrown area on my (eventual) layout. Sorry to see you won't be at York for the NGS show, I was looking forward to meeting you again. As most others have said, I would think its best to leave the 'water' to last, in case of scenery getting stuck in it etc. Remember Simon's Shed, his 'water' was still 'setting' 2 years after he put it down. Thanks

[@Elvenhome]

Hi Peter. I have always kept away from 6mm, not least because when I had a demonstration by the guy on the PECO stand at Warley one year he said it would be too big for N. But there are always things that just need to be big enough to see. Even 2mm scenic grass in N is over ale. Not many well tended lawns have 1 ft high grass on them. I had forgotten Simon’s travails with his water, partly caused I think by resting something on it which started sinking if I recall. The PVA will stay I the bottle for the time being. It is a pity not to be getting down tomorrow, but by hook or by crook I will be at Warley for the weekend so maybe we can meet again there. Stephen

[@TheHeritageLine]

Hi Stephen, Really enjoyed this update! I agree with the thoughts behind the point motors, when doing Dcc it is a real pain unless you have some form of graphical interface or using computer automation. On my main layout I will be using dcc controlled motors but they also go to a physical control panel, with me using the z21 controller it has a graphical interface. We discovered very early on that numbered motors was a pain to try and remember when using a system such as Nce or Gaugemaster. It always amaze's me how quickly a layout can come to life with a bit of grass and bushes etc. But as many have said I would leave the canal basin to last, but this is because it means you can tidy up any loose grass and debris after the scenic work has been done before emulating the water, nothing looks worst than a nice glossy surface with grass dust covering. All the best Tony.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Tony. I am pleased I tried DCC driven point motors, but with Prodigy Advance separate point control is definitely easier. I enjoy doing the scenery and as you say, it makes such a difference to get some green on a layout and it does start to give it life. The canal will gets its water last of all, which was my first instinct and is the clear advice of everyone. Stephen

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Hi Stephen. Lever frame: Hmmm... My logic tells me that levers in the "up" position allow trains to run straight through the points. When signalmen (persons?) "throw" the points by pulling the levers towards them, this sets the points to allow the trains to take the alternative route (I must ask my brother as he is a signalman for Network Rail!). Pannier tank: I don't remember seeing yours run in this configuration - i.e. between two autocoaches (although, this is how I intend to run mine). Canal scenic work: What a transformation! PVA for the canal basin: I'm not sure that it matters in which order you do the work - PVA first of scenery first. I shouldn't think the surface of the water would be like the proverbial mill pond, but neither would you get a disturbed white water surface in the way a river running over boulders would generate. Naturally, you will have a bow wave from a canal boat! And breathe...

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Paul. I am sure the levers should be up for the points to be normal. If, when I have to go back under the layout to wire in the lights, it is bugging me I could either change the wires for the a and b solenoid over underneath or I may be able just to pop out the switches and turn them through 180 degrees. At least they are all in the same alignment. I think I have run the pannier with both coaches once before, but it doesn’t run in service like this. I only have two auto coaches because my first one lost several buffers and I couldn’t get replacements so I bought a new one, and then found somewhere to buy new buffers. I may try for a running session to have my two panniers pass on the incline each attached to an auto coach. I have been looking closely at my local canal basin water each day as I walk by. It is pretty still unless either it is very windy or a boat is moving. The consensus appears to be to do this bit last, which was my instinct so I will probably do that. Stephen.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

@@Elvenhome Autocoaches: I'm sure I have seen a pannier tank engine run between two autocoaches in a YT video, but I think this was on a heritage line somewhere. Whether this happened in the autocoaches' heyday I don't know.

[@Elvenhome]

Yes you have Paul. One of the heritage railways does run the train in this way and the YT video is what gave me the idea. It was also used during their lifetime. Take a look at this Autocoach article on Wikipedia which gives more detail. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_Autocoach It seems up to four autocoaches would be marshalled into an autotrain which must have been something to see. Stephen.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

@@Elvenhome Thanks for the link.

[@JasonWood_Escarpment]

Coming along nicely Stephen, liked the running scenes 👍

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks very much Jason. Stephen

[@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932]

Hi Stephen some great overhead shots of your track formations, looks superb, love that shot at 13.20 with the gasometers , looks so realistic. The canal area will look great. I would work on the stuff that's hard to get to first. Most enjoyable Stephen.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Chris. I've enjoyed taking the overhead shots and it does show the track off well. The view up across the viaduct really is coming on and I am going to enjoy doing the rest. I'm pleased I asked the question about whether to put the PVA in, because I was worried I was just prevaricating. My instinct was to leave it until last, and that seems to be the majority view. Stephen

[@SC68]

Hi Stephen, really enjoyed the video and great result with the scenics next to the canal!! In terms of the mud I generally apply first with roads and tracks then build scenics around it. Great to see you using the longer grasses, I generally go to 4mm max but its all about perspective and what you have close by to the grass as it may then look totally out of scale if you have a car or figure next to 6mm grass! I'm just in the process of modelling my water but its the total opposite to a canal its my choppy stream but I am using a new product that I found and it works great (Soon to be shown in my next video)! Looking forward to the next episode! Cheers Gary

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Gary. I am pleased with how the scenics came out, and it augurs well for the remainder of the work. Thanks for the info on the use of the mud. It occurred to me as I was applying the mud that I may have gone about things back to front and it's helpful to have the benefit of your experience. I don't think I would use 6mm in many places but it has worked around the canal embankment. It is always interesting to use something to see if it will work. Stephen

[@exehavenharbour]

HI Stephen, wow! What a difference, really good work on the scenics, it’s made that shot across the canal to the gasworks come to life! As for the point motors well done! They drive me mad, so many wires and so much so I’m going back to DCC Concepts ip motors but the analog ones this time as there is a lot less wiring and actually they are a fair bit cheaper than the digital! I’m actually not sure about your wall and I don’t mean that unkindly, the wall itself is fine and I understand the reason it’s there but I actually think it’s blocking what could be a cracking view across the canal to the pub and Harpers Yard without looking at it from higher up if you know what I mean. Not sure what the solution would be though without a good cuppa and a ponder whilst I watched your trains running round😁 I’d leave the canal for now until you’ve completed the work, it also seems the consensus of all the other comments so far. Another lovely video to watch and enjoy, have a great weekend, cheers Stephen, John

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks John. Scenic work really is very therapeutic and quickly repays effort as you will discover in time. Once you get your head around how a circuit work with a solenoid point motor and switch in works, it really is straighforward. What is inescapable however is the long lengths of wire to bring everthing back to your control panel. Being able to control the motor from the DCC bus is a real benefit, but it is also far more expensive. DCC concepts point motors are certainly not cheap, but I can see why some prefer them. As I said in the video I don't mind the snap. At least I know it has thrown. The wall was always in my mind, but my experience when I had to remove the wall along the front to do the scenic work around the Depot made me realise it was a must. The bushes etc along the front edge took a real pounding while the other wall was off the layout, and I had to do quite a bit of remedial work. I will leave the canal until last. That was my instinct but it is good to get the advice of other modellers. Stephen

[@exehavenharbour]

I actually like the sound of solenoid point motors, and you’re right the length of the wires to the control box are long, especially on my layout where I wanted the box, well 3 boxes actually. The Cobalt analog motors are much cheaper than the digital by £7 to £8 per motor and buying a box of 12 makes it almost ok🤔🤣 As for the wall, I do get it and it does look fine. I’d have put it there it just seems a shame to me😁

[@Elvenhome]

Update on the wall. Dave Auger suggested Perspex in a recent comment. A bespoke piece is on its way, so the demolition crew will move in, with luck, before the next video. It had never occurred to me either to use it, or that it would be so easy to get a piece cut to the exact shape I wanted, with the right finish and holes pre drilled. Watch this space. Stephen

[@exehavenharbour]

Ahhh Perspex, the answer to walling and water! I look forward to seeing it Stephen, it’s a good solution! Cheers, John

[@colinnewmarch1106]

Hi Stephen , I would be inclined to leave the water aspect till last, to avoid dust etc, getting in the way, scenic work looks great

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Colin. That is the clear view of everyone and goes with my instinct. Stephen

[@Poliss95]

I prefer to use the Fleischmann point switches that go on a mimic panel which give you an indication of which way the point is set. Not the standard Fleischmann switches, but the 6900 for simple points and the 6906 for double slips etc. as can be seen on my layout videos.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I don't think I have come across the Fleischmann switches so I will take a look. Thanks for letting me know about them. Stephen

[@davidrauger]

The landscaping looks beautiful. The wall obstructs the view of the area. Have you considered using a perspex divide - you can get them in different thickness and suppliers will cut them to the dimensions. I've used them on my fiddle Yard as I kept knocking Trains off the rails when reaching over

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Dave. I hadn’t thought of Perspex until your comment. I’ve just looked on line and a piece is now on order. With luck it will get here before the next video. Thanks for the suggestion. Stephen

[@davidrauger]

@Elvenhome N Gauge Railway I used a masonry drill to make holes - flatter than a wood bit - for fixing to the side of the layout and set the brass screws in nice brass cups to make it look nice. Glad to be of help

[@Elvenhome]

I ordered it with holes already drilled and with screws and screw caps. The additional cost wasn’t that much and it saves me having to do it. I think my dreamer router has a bit especially for Perspex so it wouldn’t have been hard to do but it is one less thing to do when it gets here. Thanks again for the idea.

[@thegrowler-blackwoodngauge]

Fantastic bit of scenery work done. Most interested to see you used 4 and 6 mm static grasses. I only use 1 and 2mm grasses but you've now tempted me to experiment with the longer grasses. I'd work from the back rather than do anything more to the front. Been there and done that before - never has a happy ending when you do it in reverse😢. These points motors can be a pain - I have a couple which need resetting as they only throw in one direction - which is a bit of a pain😮. Are you still able to get to York for NGS event as I see the trains are disrupted this weekend. I'm going to go to the Kyle exhibition in Troon. Cheers Euan

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Euan. I have used 4mm static grass in places before but I wanted a more overgrown look for the embankment so went with the 6mm and it has worked well I think. I will leave the PVA, which was my instinct, and get everything else done. I am afraid that between ASLEF today and RMT tomorrow I abandoned thoughts of going down to York. LNER trains are running but not the full service and the thought of 2.5 hours on a crowded train each way didn't sound like fun. Such a pity, but there is always Warley. Stephen

[@stevewilliams1054]

Leave the finishing of that part of the canal to the end. It will get marked, as it is too much of a convenient large flat area to put down tools and other stuff.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Steve. That seems to be the consensus view and was my instinct. Stephen

[@alanraine-diplock8404]

I stopped watching for a while so have got a bit behind on videos so this may have already been addressed. Under the middle of High Elven is it not worth putting a support pillar or two, to prevent any potential sagging in the future. Looking forward to catching up with the videos and seeing the progress youve made since this video.

[@Elvenhome]

Hi Alan. I think you will see some changes as you view future videos. At this point the board was just resting on the wooden battens at the edges. I did put back on the adjustable foot to support the front edge and allow me to level the board, and the board was also screwed to the battens. It remains removable at great need, but I always intended that access would primarily be through a removable section, although I think at this point I hadn’t worked out how to do that. Stephen

[@kst1958]

Hi I have just finished watching all your videos from the start. What great layout. I was wondering about the ballasting of the lines behind the school, when are you thinking about that?

[@Elvenhome]

That shows real stamina! The final sections of ballasting on the two mainlines will be completed once I’ve fixed where the tunnel portals will be. I need to do over the viaduct to the tunnel portal also and I’ll do that at the same time. I may well leave the junction behind the school alone, because, and this is a learning point for me, I ought to have done all that before I did all the scenic work around there. If I were to gum up any part of that junction it would be very difficult to put it right. Thanks for watching all the videos and taking the time to comment. Stephen

[@bobsmodellingmayhem8632]

Hello there, the canal is looking great. I'm with everyone else on this, do the water last. Just a thought, but have you considered using realistic water from Woodland Scenics instead of pva? I've used it myself and it's good stuff, your choice though as it's your layout.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Bob. I was originally going to use the realistic water from Woodland scenics, but I then saw Märklin of Swedens channel where he used PVA and later Mouldy Raspberry’s channel where he modelled a canal using PVA. The canal is pretty placid water and I think the PVA will do the job nicely. We shall see in due course. Stephen

[@lilchris26]

Nice video Stephen, not sure what technique you are using for the water in the canal basin. I have tried some of the products you can buy without much success, one i used curled up at the edges....lol. I now use a Johnsons water based wood varnish, it takes several coats to get the effect but you can also paint with acrylics before or between coats, I have just started on the river going under my viaduct, looking forward to seeing your progress. re the point motors, I gave up on the Peco solenoid type after my first layout, I did not like the big clunk has they changed and one of my points fell apart. I use Cobalt motors now, I have changed to the digital type now, the only trouble is they are a bit expensive but only two wires right down my fiddle yard for over 20 point motors makes the wiring a lot easier. I have a Cobalt Alpha, I kind of got that by mistake and it worked out a bit expensive, but my point motors on the fiddle yard are digital with a switch panel. Thanks again for trying to help with the railings, hopefully they will not be too long before the arrive. Chris H.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Chris. I’ll be using PVA for the water. I’ve seen it used by Märklin of Sweden and Mouldy Raspberry on their channels and I think it will give the right effect for the placid water of a canal. I also don’t use products that might smell given that I am in a room in our flat. I’m glad to have sorted the points at High Elven. I rather stopped running trains up there because performance was indifferent but once it gets its rail connection back to the mainline I am looking forward to actually using it. Stephen

[@highlandersixtysix]

Super video, and my word you have an eye for the scenic aspects. I just wonder if perhaps, although somewhat overgrown, there might just be a sign of a towpath on the side of the canal that you have just completed? I watched a very interesting video on modelling an embankment line with river below; he very wisely completed all of his primary scenic effects in advance of pouring his water (you can find it here kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZmxipicYtZ9mpY ) and he was using pigmented resin on a painted sub-bed, so I'll be very interested to follow how your 'water' using PVA compares. Any thanks for taking the time and effort to post such interesting and helpful content.

[@Elvenhome]

Thanks Donald. I really enjoy the scenic work because you can see it taking shape before your eyes. I've put the muddy line it because it is formed by boatmen using it but I have designed the canal so that the towpath is only on the far side. That is partly because there is no where to go once you get to the lock. Thanks for the link which I will take a look at later. My instinct was not to do the PVA until last and that is the clear advice. Stephen