N&W 611 : The Great Dismal Swamp Derailment

[@4501trainman]

This ended excursions for passenger cars without the ''tight-lock-couplers'' which were also the older cars with the up-and-down-windows.

[@Willysmb44]

Thanks for posting this, it's the only video from the scene I've ever seen before. I remember when this happened, so many people were convinced this was the end of the program...

[@craigm2520]

+Willysmb44 From my understanding if it wasn't for this was an employee special and there was no fatalities it would've killed the program and been an absolute PR nightmare. But until 95 when the 1278 exploded, steam engines and excursions in general were under less guidelines. While it may not be as free wheeling now, I'm happy to have the NS excursion program back and the 611 along with a safer environment in general.

[@2011Maynard]

I thought this was going to be a junk video, but turned out to be a really good one. I never knew this happened, and to see it unfold real-time- wow. Thanks for posting....

[@Basement20DS]

I was on this train with my family (my father--who was a Norfolk Southern employee, mother, brother, cousin, and sister). My father was knocked unconscious, suffered three fractured vertebrae, and a broken hip. My mother had a broken hip. My brother and cousin had concussions, and I had a sprained ankle and gash in my head (stitches). They had my father in one hospital, my mother in another hospital, and my siblings and I were in another hospital. I'll never forget this day. Can't believe no one died.

[@mt2001ps]

Thanks for sharing! I can't find our family's videos. Most of our videos were of the news channels coverage after we were home. This video considering how old is amazingly long! Thanks again.

[@tereabentley5896]

No fatalities although there were some severely injured, mostly due to poorly planned refurbishing. The accident report mentions unsecured items which became missiles as well as items projecting from walls which should have been flush.

[@cyndirichardson9969]

I along with my Dad, Sister and Brother were on this train. We were in the open car behind the food car which turned over on it's side, very horrific day for us all. I am still horrified of trains!!!

[@tiffanyfarr211]

Yes it was

[@grvolans]

still id rather be on train on the ground than on a plane with no chance of survival.

[@TheSteamLocomotive]

Trains are nothing to be afraid of.

[@Basement20DS]

I was too!

[@pwwoodring]

The two biggest changes to come from this wreck were limiting NS passenger excursions to 40 mph, and ending the use of open-window coaches for them. The program ended in '94, but the handwriting was probably on the wall after the Amtrak Bayou Canot wreck on CSX, in AL, in Sept. '93 (47 killed). CSX (for all intent and purposes) ended public excursions after that year (except in very limited cases, like the WV New River Excursion Train, which operates as an Amtrak train, under Amtrak's insurance), NS followed the next year. CSX still won't allow most excursions (by requiring a prohibitively expensive amount of liability insurance) (or allow steam locomotive movements at all), NS has started offering them again on a limited basis, under new senior management.

[@sbentjies]

I heard rumblings from an NS employee on the excursion we just took that with new senior management this might go away. Probably speculation but I hope it doesn't. I really want to ride behind 611 before it's too late

[@288jh]

CarolinaRailWorks That's what everyone thought the first time. I agree, It is a great way to connect with and educate the public. However, It could end tomorrow. Be glad it is here, and enjoy it while you can.

[@craigm2520]

+sbentjies the new CEO replacing Wickman was basically appointed by Bob himself and I do not believe the 611 would have been restored without assurances it had a place to run long term.

[@BessemerLakeErie902]

+288jh Well the Steam program is done now. ):

[@kimreiss3013]

I was on this with my dad,my sister, a friend and my then boyfriend. My dad suffered a mild heart attack and I hurt my knee. I remember walking thru the cars trying to find one with a better working AC then we felt 2 or 3 little brake checks and that is when it all went down hill from there.

[@ThePainTrain765]

Ouch, at least 611 didnt come off.

[@Fataliac]

My Sister, Parents and I were in the car which is right in front of the car that is almost sideways around 5:30-5:50 ...remember it like it was yesterday. Sat on the tracks for 3 hours until that rescue engine showed up

[@Fataliac]

I think I'm the kid scratching my butt at 3:34...my sister is in my Mom's lap in the lower right corner...theres someone in the way, but you can see just for a sec... (My dad, who worked for NS, was up front assessing the situation for a bit)

[@scottfw7169]

I would have been on it as part of the Tidewater chapter NRHS except it was the day we left to move to Missouri. Am both sad it happened and glad it was not worse.

[@bootsdocsandconspiracies6589]

@Fataliac so when the rescue engine finally showed up what happened did it did he pull away all the cars that wasn't derailed and did y'all get back on the train or what?

[@michaelclark9762]

This happened in 1986. The NS steam program was not cancelled until 1994 after another accident during a ferry move that damaged many of the passenger coaches needed to make the program viable. NS cited rising insurance costs and limited system availability as the reason for shutting down the program. The person at the throttle when the train derailed in 1986 in the Great Dismal Swamp was Robert Claytor, former president of the N&W and the brother of former Southern RR President Graham Claytor.

[@bootsdocsandconspiracies6589]

@Michael Clark where was the this work derailed on the ferry move curious if there was any footage of that or any pictures anywhere?

[@jacksalvin364]

1986 Great Dismal Swamp Derailment.

[@renegadeoflife8774]

WOW! I didn't realize it was this bad. I figured a couple cars had jumped off and the train was just shaken up. Actually ripping up tracks... Thank god nobody was killed and the 611 wasn't damaged. Hopefully nothing like this ever happens again.

[@TheUnflushedToilet]

Actually 611 had a bad derailment back in 1956 after going around a curve too fast and completely fell on it's side. Sadly the train's engineer was killed in the wreck. But as we can see #611 was repaired and is here to this day.

[@GTWDude]

B EPIC Gamer that wreck coincidentally saved the 611 because the fact that she had been recently overhauled made her a #1 candidate to be preserved

[@vincentberkan605]

@@TheUnflushedToilet Some say it was this wreck that sealed 611's future into preservation.

[@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014]

Just when you thought 611 had only had one wreck in its life,

[@lauraburk8112]

I was on that as a small child with my parents, sisters, and grand parents. We were all ok.

[@SteamEnthusiastProductions]

This is why they don't allow the vestibule to be opened during the trips?

[@nssteampunk4865]

I bet that was one of the factors that put an end to the old Southern steam program, and to #611's operation for a long time. Now there's a new one called 21st Century Steam, and #611 is returning in 2014, according to the new "Fire Up 611" campaign. The program will also run Nickel Plate #765, Southern #4501 & #630 and U.S. Army #610. I don't know about N&W #1218, but I do think that Savannah and Atlanta #750, Atlanta and West Point #290, Texas and Pacific #610, or Chesapeake and Ohio #2716 could use some attention. I would also recommend leasing Southern #722 (at Great Smoky Mountains Railroad), Louisville and Nashville #152 (at the Kentucky Railroad Museum), Pere Marquette #1225, or Frisco #1522 (hasn't run since 2002, really needs attention). Just keep on the lookout for CSX, they are the only railroad in the U.S. that will not permit steam operations on their tracks, since they last ran steam on the New River back in 1992.

[@residentevil742]

I hope they do 1218 that would be amazing I didn't know there were that many operating locomotives that close that NS might be able to borrow them. CSX is full of the look forwards not backwards kinda people apparently.

[@nssteampunk4865]

Well #2716 is at the Kentucky Museum, #750 & #290 at the Southeastern Railway Museum, & #1522 is still on display at the Museum of Transportation. I think writing a letter to NS would help. CSX might allow moving inoperable steamers, but as far as I know, they will not permit steam operations whatsoever. I don't know if the Kentucky Railway Museum is next to CSX or not, but I would also think about putting #2716 on a flatbed truck to TVRM or NS shops if CSX won't permit moving an inoperable steamer. Sounds like a very heavy job, but it would be worth it. Plus, I would also want to help bring back C&O #614!

[@residentevil742]

I would love to see C&O 614

[@nssteampunk4865]

It is at Clifton Forge.

[@renegadeoflife8774]

+Erich Diebold This happened. #611 was restored, and will run excursions in 2016. Not sure what the status of #1218 is, but she was beside #611 at Roanoke. #765 was all over the northeast US in the summer, including visiting my hometown and visiting Steamtown.

[@anb7408]

Quite a few new rules came about from this one. Tight lock couplers on all passenger cars, 40mph restriction on all excursions, etc.

[@foxrivermotorman]

I thing that was the open air car they put on the ground. I heard that Gram was at the throttle and was doing 70 mph and that when they started to run at 40-45 mph after this happened

[@dylanwatson9300]

+foxrivermotorman It was Graham's younger Bob(First and at the time president of the NS railroad) who flat was at throttle of this accident. He actually had 611's speed up to 58 mph(still very fast by railroad standards) on the way to Petersburg from Norfolk on the "racetrack" that the N&W referred to that is a long flat stretch of 54 miles where the engineers of the J's in the old days would get them up to speeds ranging from 95-105 miles an hour to either keep to their schedules going westbound to Cincinnati or trying to be back at Norfolk on time. Bob himself had a similar and major habit of doing the same thing whenever he was tempted by long flat straightaways in the excursion when he ran big steamers like 611, 1218, 765 and 759. This accident shook him up and decided finally to mandate the 40-45 mph limit on all future steam excursions & movements

[@dennishawley3090]

I was on that train when it derailed. I had no idea it was recorded.

[@tereabentley5896]

I was on it, too!

[@dennishawley3090]

Then you'll never forget it. I haven't been on a train since then.@@tereabentley5896

[@tereabentley5896]

@@dennishawley3090 I have!

[@TrainFan119]

Was it very scary

[@madjack1956]

Dennis... Are you related to J.C.Hawley ? He was a conductor on the NW. I was talking to his wife Barbara in the commissary car just before we wrecked.

[@trainlover765]

Thank you for posting this! This is great! It is unfortunate it happened. Can you re-upload this with the sound?

[@NW-gi1cp]

611 doesn't like to talk about this nowadays 😢

[@THOMAS81Z]

Never thought it was this bad

[@scottchapman9514]

Does anyone know what happened to Diane Brown? She was one of the passengers that was injured pretty badly. She was a friend of mine when she lived in Virginia Beach.

[@transportationproductions1794]

Was Norfolk and Western 611 okay? Did she come off the rails, too?

[@thenorgalofthehills5688]

4:36 you can see her with the cars that didn’t derail backing up. The only things that derailed were a few cars that picked a switch.

[@BigTrain175]

Oh, dear! How dreadful! I hope the train crew weren't killed in the accident. Because it would be terrible. I hate to see people die.

[@thebrantfordrailfan]

Stephen Crumb it sucks when people die but it sucks just as much when a steam locomotive dies! (or is damaged)

[@GTWDude]

TheBrantfordRailfan i thought 611 flipped over at first and almost cried

[@fosterchild420420]

it did back in the 50's. in this incident, the locomotive was not involved. cars towards the middle of the train jumped at a switch and derailed. if memory serves, no one died but lots were injured.

[@thenorgalofthehills5688]

No one was killed and 611 didn’t derail. In fact in the video you can see the engine with the cars that didn’t derail backing up. Some people did suffer bad injuries though.

[@nickelplatestudios2162]

Pretty nasty wreck.

[@railroadvelocipedeproducti2020]

I can't believe this happened the 611 had been in two accidents the one at tug river and now this! at least everyone survived which is a miracle

[@drfunk411]

Makes me sad. I would love to hear the back story about what happened in the cab when they figured out part of the train derailed. Heavy stuff no doubt.

[@Basement20DS]

They drove for a while before noticing and ended up backing up to the wreckage. That's where they picked some of us up from the derailment.

[@larrymurphy3877]

Everyone, is so jealous of the J-611 for her "POWER and BEAUTY" any little thing happen they try to destroy her. When the J-611 is rolling all attention is on her.

[@johnnycab23513]

This is what ended the N&W steam program. The local yokels in the media made a big issue of President Goode being engineer at the time of the derailment. No one mentioned that the man was certified and kept himself qualified as an engineer. So to sooth the ignorant, N&W suspended the steam project.

[@bootsdocsandconspiracies6589]

@John Schwab the steam program wasn't suspended the first time till 1994, though this was obviously a factor in it.

[@JohnHorvath42]

Bad hair day for NS, 611, fans.

[@DOLRED]

Is this the accident that caused fatalities (I am assuming so). Was not this a N&W railroad outing as I recall? What date was this? I remember hearing about it. Also, I think a number of the coaches were rendered junk?

[@trainmaster844]

From what I gathered, the Great Dismal Swamp derailment did result in some injuries, but no fatalities. The train was being operated for the benefit of Norfolk Southern employees and their families - and this occurred on May 18th, 1986. After this accident, all steam locomotives - including 611 - were limited to 40 MPH and the Open-Window cars were eliminated from the trains (and yes, a few were sold for scrap because they went onto their sides), because they lacked the "tight-lock" couplers that kept the streamlined cars upright during the wreck.

[@DOLRED]

Christopher Kovacs Thanks for the info. I asked because I remember hearing of this accident shortly after it happened. It was in August 1983 that I rode this train in Illinois on an excursion and filmed some of that on tape--which I have posted on youtube.

[@craigm2520]

+DOLRED This wreck had no fatalities but if it wasn't for it was a NS Employee Special the program would have ended that day and NS would've had a PR mess. If you want a sad but interesting report, read the Gettysburg 1278 Boiler Explosion NTSB report. It is in a mechanical sense fascinating to read about what caused the failure and terrifying at the same point because of how badly the engine was not cared for. I have video of being a kid standing in front of the engine not more the 3 ft in front of a driver.

[@davmoart]

There were 200 injured and transported to area hospitals. There were many very serious injuries too.

[@762Media42]

Quick question what year was this? I Haven't seemed to figure it out yet

[@raunchymangos7468]

'86

[@quad1000]

Tragic but also fascinating footage of a train derailment and immediate aftermath. I'm totally unfamiliar with this event and I've read a lot about the 611. Please consider a re-upload with audio for its historical significance.

[@erickwardwell962]

So did the 611 derail or just the passenger cars?

[@sterlingbrummer1745]

Damn, this had to happen to such a nice train :(

[@cyndirichardson9969]

Can you please send me this video if possible, my family and I were on the train. My Dad worked for N&S ( N&W)

[@stephenoliver1397]

Around the 10:20 mark you will see a gentleman in a tan jumper outfit with a blue hat on. That is Bob Claytor.

[@vanwelton1753]

Robert Claytor, Chairman, was at the throttle. Two points to consider; (1) Did Claytor submit to FRA drug test? (2) I have always heard there was a slow order on Bridge 7, a few miles east. If you consider the time of the derailment against the timetable speed that it should have taken to travel from the Bridge to the derailment site, and you may conclude that the Chairman was exceeding the track speed. After all, who is going to tell the boss to slow down. The attorney in me needs to say that theses points are simply rumors. Add weight to them as you determine.

[@lathanluu4535]

is that really 611

[@joshandkorinna]

Yes. This was the beginning of the end of their first steam program. The locomotive itself was unharmed in the incident. The rest of train, however, as you see, took a beating.

[@joshandkorinna]

Brian joe No it wasn't. It was 611.

[@awp2902]

kk

[@NORVAheelhook]

I was on this train...i was in one of the cars flipped on its side

[@chasehudson7063]

Sounds terrifying please tell me what it was like where was the wreck

[@NORVAheelhook]

the wreck was in the (Virginia) dismal swamp back in the 80s. It is really a hard thing to describe especially being young. You could feel something was wrong right before it happened and it felt like it was in slow motion and then bam I woke up 20 min later on the other side of the car i was in. All you could see was dust and hear people moaning in pain. They put us back on the train that wasn't derailed to take the non critical to the hospital...everyone that was in critical condition was air lifted to Norfolk General Hospital. I was told that the CEO of the time was drunk and put the engine in full throttle and the track was rated for the speed we were traveling so it derailed

[@chasehudson7063]

He was drunk that's why they crashed

[@mtl6113]

+Chase Hudson no he wasn't he had a heart attack and the fireman couldn't get across the cab in time

[@dylanwatson1287]

+Chase Hudson Bob Claytor(first CEO and chairman of NS at the time) who was at the throttle that day wasn't drunk at all. The accident was never his fault in the first place because before it ever happened, the railroad always allowed steam engines like 611 to run faster than what they really should have been doing for the own good of the passengers and even the crew on board. Yes he always had a habit to open up the ole girls and run fast whenever he saw a long straightaway but he along with many people who have common sense would never deliberately put other's lives at risk. He was really shaken up( which I don't ever ever blame him for it) after this wreck and apologized to everyone who was on board that day. Thankfully he got everything settled and decided to mandate the 40-45 mph on all steam movements & excursions. on NS and install tight locks on all passenger cars in the US.

[@nstrains4001]

I see NS Dash 7s 12:13

[@flashrocket9158]

this is the case of a fun train ride gone south (no pun intended). what year was this footage from anyway?

[@olbuck20]

1986 I was on the train it was scary experience

[@flashrocket9158]

well, guess shit happens.

[@buck0ne]

John Roach I was on this train as well--along with my parents, brother, sister, and cousin. I was seven years old. My father worked for (and still works for) Norfolk Southern. I never knew this video was out there. Thank you for posting this 288jh.

[@drewschlecker3194]

Something just did happen 10/ 4 2019 at the Strasburg railroad luckily no one was hurt and it was just the two front drivers

[@lutherhgrindstonemtn3456]

150 hurt ,4 critical.

[@SteamKing2160]

What the heck happened? Bad Switch? Terrible rails?

[@scottfw7169]

Switch maintenance was involved, some errors of several different natures led to failure of components in switch. See page 50 here www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR8705.pdf

[@dainallison4275]

What year was this?

[@davmoart]

Dain Allison , it was May 19, 1986.

[@ekrwy2]

Great film documenting the rack. However, you may want to consider removing this video. All it takes is one Yahoo lawyer, not from that era, to get a hold of this video and give Bad advice to upper management on discontinuing the current steam program. Other than that, again, great video

[@Westsoid2009]

+Bret Andrews Spoken like a true foamer.

[@chickenoraria7559]

Poor train

[@TheNoogaRailfan]

What happened? I'm confused...

[@JAILRail]

Jason Fields The cars must've derailed. I don't know if anyone got hurt.

[@thenorgalofthehills5688]

+JacksonAndLansing Railroad The train was going too fast and they went over a point and one of the cars picked the switch. That is what caused it to derail. Fortunately, No one was killed.

[@scottfw7169]

According to DOT several errors made during track and switch maintenance added up to cause the derailment. Read pages 49 and 50 here, www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR8705.pdf "6. The maintenance activities in March on the middle track, combined with increasing temperatures, created conditions that resulted in improperly adjusted rail."

[@nickelplateroad7655]

What happened!?

[@TrainFan119]

Nickel plate road 765 the coach jumped a switch and sparked a worse problem

[@mmandmcb14]

11:20 - two diesels.

[@HomerPenguin5516]

11:20

[@chasehudson7063]

Guess what this actually saved the train

[@jimmycolvin4970]

Chase Hudson The derailment of 1956 and O. Winston Link is what saved the 611 from the scrap yard. This derailment was after it had been restored in the early 80's.

[@sbentjies]

That would suck

[@SouthernPacific4449Train]

Well 611 don't derailment

[@sarahbethsmile]

Rip N&W 611

[@mmandmcb14]

In operating condition

[@coastalrailfanning]

💀

[@MilesTSB]

Hi *read more*