5 Misconceptions About Fallout's Brotherhood of Steel

[@coolman229]

Elder Lyons IS actually trying to help everyone and his altruistic behavior got him cut off from the west coast and had a chunk of his people defect and become the Outcasts. If anything it was Lyons in Fallout 3 that caused the widespread misconception that the BoS are always good guys in the first place since many people's first Fallout game was 3.

[@elseggs6504]

Fallout 1 lmao

[@TheCommieKilla]

Liberals crying about one little faction not helping mutants, should & synths doesn’t surprise me at all

[@SorceressWitch]

​@@TheCommieKillaThe post doesn't have anything to do with liberals. You need to stop pushing your own political bias onto people. This is about people who wanted the BOS to be good. The fans of Lyons don't mention their own political beliefs so you should stop personally attacking people over disagreements in a video game. Grow up. The Lyons fans misunderstood the BOS as good. However Lyons BOS are known to shoot at ghouls in Fallout 3 if you speak to ghouls in Underworld. I haven't seen anyone say they wanted BOS should help super mutants or synths, unless you mean gen 3 synths. Gen 3 synths are like people so it's understandable if people want them to be included. It's also understandable why the BOS is against them, since they're created by an abuse of technology. The quest with Danse, Maison wants him dead. You can spare him but he is no longer welcome and Mason says he is dead to the rest of the BOS, so other members believe he is dead except for Haylen who is his friend. In the TV show we see Thaddeus who is now mutated. Maximus believes he is a ghoul so Thaddeus can no longer go back to the BOS and runs off. We don't know if he is a ghoul yet but he definitely has become mutated from whatever that guy gave him. The Lyons fans have not understood the BOS, I don't see how that has to do with the ideology of liberalism though. Which just tells me that you're here for personal attacks than a proper discussion. The NCR is an example of liberalism not BOS. As NCR is based on pre war government and having liberal democracy. However they're not good guys either and have the same problems as the pre war government.

[@TheCommieKilla]

@@SorceressWitch okay I get that but people on the left are pushing their political beliefs everywhere in every tv show every game every advertisement every song and post on social media children can’t even avoid it so please if you’re gonna tell me not to push it tell them too I just want to play a game and enjoy it while people who think they are social justice warriors make statements about whose good or bad in a damn post apocalyptic world lmao NOBODY is gonna be the good guys in a apocalypse it’s about survival at the end of the day

[@nightelf2487]

Actually Roger Maxon (NOT author Maxon) put the ideals on the table to what the brotherhood should be (with elder lyons technically following it correctly) but the damn brotherhood went full imperium of man 40k and forgot about it. It’s like when Big E said ‘I’m not a god’ and then the imperium proceeds to worship him anyway.

[@reecewestmoreland6137]

I think the fact they act in their own interest is how they've came to be the the oldest wasteland faction and are still pretty powerful.

[@munted4790]

*insert an institute synth virus*

[@danielhuston4321]

Dont forget the enclave

[@reecewestmoreland6137]

@@danielhuston4321 Well the enclave are a pre war faction and i mean they hide on an oil rig for most of their time effectively out of reach so it wasn't like they were enduring the wastes like other factions had to look the BOS, NCR, Khans and Followers of the Apocalyps did.

[@AusSP]

Depends what you mean. The Western Brotherhood's self-interest led to them act against the NCR, which is a war the Brotherhood isn't likely to win. On the East, they mainly have little competition.

[@rookie9028]

That's what the apocalypse should be about 🤔

[@onlycorndog6322]

I think one of the most compelling things about the Brotherhood of Steel is that, despite their many faults, their fundamental goal of keeping dangerous Old Word technology from being used by outsiders isn't a bad one. There are many examples of wastelanders finding caches of pre-war tech and using it to do bad stuff. The Gunners and their plasma weapons are a great example. Arthur Maxson is definitely a lot more extreme than previous Elders but he's not wrong about everything. The Institute definitely is abusing technology. Regardless of their personhood synths definitely are dangerous. The fact that the Brotherhood is almost always at least partially right about technology is probably one of the reasons they've outlived so many other factions.

[@wargames43]

This 100% They are also a faction that know that if they struggle they need to make changes

[@seamusthatsthedog4819]

The problem with the Brotherhood's goal is that the wasteland is not stagnant. It's constantly evolving. The Gun Runners already have the means to repair and manufacture energy weapons by 2281. By 2241, the NCR already had working energy fields in Shady Sands. At some point, maybe in less than a 100 years' time, their quest to "safeguard" technology will end up with them raiding military and civilian factories in the New California Republic, yet they still want to pretend it's 2077 and the world has just ended. Like House and Caesar put it, they have no future. They're scavangers pretending to be Knights of Yore in a civilization that has already rediscovered the process of manufacturing the technology of the Old World en masse.

[@derkylos]

Nah. The core concept is fundamentally flawed. They recognised that one of the biggest failings of pre-war America was wanton technological advancement and the will to use that technology to wage war, but they somehow think THEIR organisation can transcend this apparent aspect of human nature in the Fallout universe. If they sought out advanced technology in order to destroy it, they might have a point, but the fact that they hoard, use and even resurrect old tech (see Liberty Prime) makes them just a bunch of hypocrites. "You're not responsible enough to have this advanced tech, but we have investigated ourselves and determined that we are."

[@77SilentAssassin77]

How are synths dangerous? Leave them alone, they leave YOU alone.

[@droidmaker7932]

@@77SilentAssassin77do you know their parents? They’ll make them be dangerous to anyone of interest and their people

[@The_Hat_Art]

Also the enclave in fallout two can be considered more advanced than the brotherhood since their power armor is better and they have vertibirds as well as the means to build them. That’s how the NCR gets them for at least president kimball

[@KristopherPrime]

That’s when how the brotherhood got the vertibird. Scavenging/innovating what remained of the defeated enclave’s vertibirds.

[@crazycherokee8552]

In Fallout 4 the BoS goal was likely less about aquisition and more about preventing anyone, even the brotherhood, from continuing the synth program. No matter whos side you pick, the final solution stays the same: complete annihilation of the institute. I believe they kept all the data and schematics for various tech but nobody in the brotherhoid accepted synths so there wasnt much reason to preserve the tech itself. The benefit would be having the capability to recreate the tech without worrying about reckless usage of it because it would take a lot of resources and time to recreate the machinery necessary, which will be noticed by the scribes long before you get your first synth made

[@MrJayza89]

Yep. Acquisition is not the goal for the bos during fallout4 and their actions during the game prove that. At no point do they ever mention wanting to take that technology for themselves and often say word for word the goal is to destroy the institute. They have dialogue that mentions they don’t want anyone to have that kind of tech for a reason, it’s simply too powerful and even the brotherhood doesn’t want to risk that tech falling into the wrong hands after the institute is gone. This by no way makes them the good guys of fallout 4 but their reasoning for invading the commonwealth isn’t a bad one either. Bos in fallout 4 are just too xenophobic and militaristic for their own good causing them to come into conflict with the commonwealth as a whole.

[@crazycherokee8552]

@MrJayza89 I completely agree. The only people that would have access to the data from the scrubber you put on the terminal would be the head scribes and elders, but even then I'm sure you'd have to get serious clearance to access that information. And even then I'm sure the brotherhood wiped a lot of the information that would allow easy recreation of the tech, so without having inside knowledge if the institute you'd likely not be able to use the information anyways

[@Maxsmack]

only a few head scribes would have enough in their heads to make a synth army if they went rogue. could make an interesting quest

[@allenaju1856]

Factual the brotherhood only seemed to take notice once the synths were known to the brotherhood, they could’ve just went under radar by never going beyond a gen 2 synth the tech inside there Institute was only a plus since they were there to only destroy the institute, the institute could’ve done many different things in a post apocalyptic America but as I see it they were trying to replace man on earth with humans made from artificial and bio material and have sleeper cell chips in their brains. Playing the Railroad quest line kinda proves the Brotherhoods point of view, they do not care about anyone else but the synths with some being synths themselves and are cool sacrificing others to save synths, Patriot the man that started the Railroad by even starting the whole synth escape issue within, shoots himself because he realized that he made a terrible mistake, since he didn’t think they would come to the institute and destroy them, he saw it as freedom fighting helping synths that do want more than what is given to them inside the institute. And The Railroad destroying the institute granted you don’t have to free anymore synths but you just made the “Race” you were trying to free on the endangered species list, the institute made it so they don’t grow old(as far as we know) and that don’t breed, if they took control of the institute they could’ve found ways to reengineer synths to do just that grow old die and breed it’s stated the institute “could” change that but simply see them as yards tools.

[@AusSP]

@@allenaju1856 Yeah. Gen 2 Synths are just robots, that's no problem. But Synths that imitate and replace humans are a threat to the Brotherhood, and humanity in general. The Brotherhood is fundamentally out for itself, but that's just normal government behavior. Synths are too dangerous to allow the technology to exist under anyone's hands but your own. They're too useful as spies, moles, and assassins. A world where Synths are commonplace is one where the leaders are constantly wary for betrayal.

[@sykrotima9528]

I have to admit, alot of people give FO4's BoS alot of backlash but I still kind of agree with the overall message. Institute is playing god and creating a hierarchy of humans in a world that shouldnt. It would have been cooler if bethesda actually went furhter into the RPG elements of the game though and actually gave us a different ending for the BoS and Institute working together/BoS securing the institute instead of destroying it.

[@eusoumaniaco]

Wym creating a hierarchy where it shouldn’t? All of fallout 4’s factions do exactly that, and the same applies to most towns and settlements. BoS has quite literally the most strict hierarchy system amongs all of those too, apart from the whole culling ideals and horny-for-mutant-genocide attitude.

[@sykrotima9528]

@@eusoumaniaco I wasn't talking about a faction hierarchy, I was talking more about the fact that they can technically create full functioning immortal beings. Basically whoever can control that power, will inevitably control all of humanity. Imagine an entire "political family" becoming one true reigning monarchy because their blood line is immortal, they can amass any and all resource to permanently secure power. At first the institute will do whats "good" for the commonwealth but through time they will devolve into power struggle within their ranks to attain ultimate power. That's why I don't particularly like the institute regardless of any other faction, they are completely unchecked in the long run. (its also not a well written faction unlike other fallout games).

[@eusoumaniaco]

@@sykrotima9528 I understand what you mean better now, even though the use of hierarchy on the initial comment really threw me off lol. I do agree with most of what you wrote, in special about the institute being very badly written, but while the BoS might be agreeable with in regards that the institute should probably go, who's to say they wouldn't try to replicate synth technology after defeating the institute? they are a faction based on preserving tech and even though gen 3 synths are supposedly hated by that chapter, that seems oddly out of place for the brotherhood. what if it's a reasoning to go to war, acquire said technology, and then suddenly you have said infinite army/dynasty thing but on a severely more militaristic faction? Even if they stuck only to gen 2 and 1 models due to gen 3 being their real issue (in general due to their unreliabilty/closeness to sentience, other chapters might not like them too, but I doubt they all share in Maxson's hatred for *all* synths), that would still make them ridiculously hard to contest with. The better option for no infinite synth army would probably be the railroad, free all gen 3 synths that have already escaped, and nuke the institute enough times so that not even a hint of the synth project ever existed in the first place.

[@asjmpickle]

Fallout 4 brotherhood are just Nazis... They want to create a "pure" world they don't care about people synths or not. And they actively harm the human settlements because they believe they are saving the master race from radiated wasters and ghouls and synths.

[@sykrotima9528]

@@eusoumaniaco I agree since there might be an ulterior motive for the BoS, the railroad are also in a bad spot because once the institute is removed, they no longer have a driving purpose. They will internally fall apart due to a lack of functioning motive, they are quite impossible to drive into canon because of it. "All the Gen3's are free, and the institute is gone, what now guys?" "we free the toasters" Where as the brotherhood does have a checks and balance system of sort, there are other chapters that could come around to see if the brotherhood has fallen out of line, like we saw with Fo3. The outcasts did not accept what the Lyons Pride was doing, so they abandoned them and claimed they would get payback when they reconvened with the Lost Hills chapter.

[@Cauceboi]

The argument against them in 3 is weak I think because it is shown and told to us multiple times that Lyons’ goals were truly to aid people, so much so that a splinter faction split off because they believed he’d been betraying their organizations ideals.

[@june9914]

His goals originally did align with the normal BOS but after the first raid on the pitt his goals shifted

[@darth_chaos4616]

The whole military thing is totally wrong. Teutonic Knights, Order of Santiago, Knights Templar etc were all Catholic Military Orders. The original name for the Knights Templar was the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon. The Brotherhood operates as a military order even in New Vegas and is widely considered a techno-religious military order which was also founded by US Army personnel.

[@stragepinetree]

not to mention the fact that half this guys evidence for them not being a military organization is them not being a part of the US military and the other half is him talking about their goals, which have nothing to do with them being a military.

[@teclishighloremasterofhoet7488]

@@stragepinetreeI was just gonna say that. His evidence that they aren’t military, is that they aren’t THE military. It’s pretty obvious, even based on his own evidence from Maxson, that the initial reason fkr forming a new order, was to not be beholden to the old one.

[@deepism]

If he would've said that the Brotherhood is not the American Military, then he would've been absolutely correct, because the BoS are absolutely not. But they are definitely a military.

[@elseggs6504]

​@@deepism People legitimately dont even know half the buzzwords they spit out trying to sound smart. Like the guy above claiming the Brotherhood is a Technoreligious military order. Where tf does the religion come from?

[@deepism]

@@elseggs6504 Idk man. The Brotherhood is not a religious order. Idk why people think that.

[@brotherhoodofsteel4751]

Great video but one thing I want to clear up is the Chicago branch of the Brotherhood of Steel went rug before lyons's Brotherhood. This is mentioned in game in Fallout 3 by scribe Rothschild. Also there's the arguments to me that the Lost hills chapter is still central command as Lyons wasn't considered a rogue Brotherhood of Steel chapter elder They just don't get any support from the West Coast. Not to mention that the Brotherhood outcast mentioned that they'll get retribution against him once they get in contact with the Lost hills chapter.

[@wasteland5000]

I'd argue your reasoning for the BoS in F3 in misconception 1. It is known that Elder Lyons actively Tries to protect civilians and that's why they stayed there. Hell, he ABANDONED there original mission to protect the wasteland, that's why you have the Outcasts. So under Lyons, I think it was for getting people clean drinking water and not controlling the tech.

[@SarujinieUras]

Yeah I'd say any video about the "real" BoS would have to exclude Lyon's Pride because they're not the same faction anymore. The Outcasts of Fo3 are the "real" BoS depicted in every other game

[@Idazmi7]

@@SarujinieUras _"The Outcasts of Fo3 are the "real" BoS depicted in every other game"_ That's incorrect, too. The Fallout 1 and 2 Brotherhood trades weapons and armor to the Hub, and sends their scribes into the wastes to teach people how to use non-combat tech (like Jake in the Hub was taught to use Holodisks).

[@wargames43]

@@SarujinieUras OG fallout players need to beat it. its simpel human interaction if you travel from one side of the country to the other you will see shit. The turning point for Elder Lyons was the Pitt seeing how horrible humanity was struggling while the brotherhood with its power did nothing to help. Simpel Humanitary behavior. And this goes for the small mojave chapter as well its Adapt or perish. The reason the east coast is a bigger force than the lost hills faction is because lost hills is doomed to die out. And if you listened to the video you would understand the original Brotherhood the first generation was actually open to the outside world its only his grandkid that made them isolationists... So if you wanna get tactical the East Coast BoS is actually more true to the original BoS than the Fallout 2 version. the Mojave chapter saw their flaws with hellios one and the worthless infighting with the NCR that is why you can help them form a alliance...

[@ciciciaphascain4143]

@@Idazmi7 People really need to stop pulling things out of their ass and actually play the OG games. The amount of time I see 'BOS is evil conservative isolationist, they murder innocent for fun blah blah blah' is getting annoying.

[@Idazmi7]

@@ciciciaphascain4143 Preach, Brother. Anti BOS slander is goddamn _constant._ These people can't even provide ONE, singular example of the Brotherhood actually _doing_ any of those things, and keep saying it anyway. Meanwhile, the Brotherhood of Steel's actions have purely beneficial outcomes in *_every_* Fallout game to date. Every single one.

[@inductivegrunt94]

Really great video. The Brotherhood is such a diverse and unique faction that misconceptions like these aren't out of the ordinary. Especially the further east you go in the wasteland with Ramani's Brotherhood and Lyon's Brotherhood being almost pure good factions with wanting to help the people of the wasteland, while still being Brotherhood of Steel. It's very interesting to look into such a well developed lore rich faction and see just what is true and what isn't. I dare say that the Brotherhood is the best faction purely based on their lore thanks to stuff like this. And it's partially why I love them so much, until FO4, they're just so rich in lore and history that it's hard to just pin them down as one thing when they are many things even in the same depiction from the same game.

[@wargames43]

Yup its also inline with how they behave as human beings. Lost hills Chapter is more inclined to stick to their own. as they isolate themselfes allot so they dont see allot of the world going on out there but if you travel from one coast to the other you have seen stuff. Elder Lyons even mentions the moment he saw the situation in the Pitt he swore he wanted to do more with the brotherhood than just horde technology. You can see the more eastwards and less isolationists they get the more they become aware they need to be the ones to help humanity not just hoard technology. So contrary to diehard gatekeeping fans the Eastcoast brotherhood makes sense to be more open aswell as the BoS even in new vegas found out the only way to go forward is to play open book with the outside world. Allot of people might not like what Bethesda did but they are doing great character developement so to speak with the OG factions

[@mattmark94]

3 minutes in and you are WRONG already. The BoS doesn't want Institute tech. Maxson and Proctor Quinlan both state that the tecnology created by the Institute is too dangerous to spread. In fact they completely destroy the Institute to make sure of that. Source: most of Maxson speeches about the Institute and if you go to talk to Quinlan right after the BoS ending and ask if he is disappoint that all that research is gone, he will give you the same argument.

[@Jx-kj9fs]

but the institute does non-synth related research to my knowledge right? surely that’s not an issue

[@SorceressWitch]

​@@Jx-kj9fsThere is a quest to scan institute terminal for data so if there is anything useful then they already got it from the network scanner. They destroyed institute because it keeps that base out of the wrong hands. They have no need for it. And it would be draining their resources to keep it operational as it requires a load of power.

[@spunkyfunkymonke]

Aka teleporting power armor soldiers is too op

[@justaguy2182]

I believe every faction in the series is working toward their own interests for the most part. The Followers of the Apocalypse is the one exception I think, seeing as they seem to purely want to help other people who are struggling in the post war world. It’s why the few games where you have to side with a faction make it a hard choice, because you know that faction is going to do what benefits them at the end of the day.

[@mintz9782]

An argument could be made for the minutemen

[@juniorsanchez4157]

I like to think that the eastern chapter is more likely to take civilian recruits is due to their more combative nature with incursions into the Pitt and other cities and simply needing to replace those loses and in the capital wasteland wanted to integrate and help out the local population if you believe in their ideals and goals they will accept you into the faction while other chapters stuck more to roots and simply recovered technology and grew from within

[@wargames43]

Yup if you travel a long way east and see all that stuff you will get a change of hearth and thats exactly what happened to Lyons after the Pitt his mission was to help people understand technology and not hide it from them. East Coast is trying its best to teach people the lessons of the past and how to actually use the technology in a more humane way. Lost hills where initially the same even if OG fans dont want to admit it the first elder wanted to help the wasteland before his head got blown off after a failed interaction with a tribe to be peacefull only then they became isolationists

[@countersphere2924]

You can actually make the NCR and Brotherhood sign a truce in New Vegas which will have the BoS fight alongside the NCR at Hoover Dam. And after the war they aid eachother. So they don't refuse to help, it's just that you have to convince the BoS and NCR that they can/should aid. So it is possible for them to help the NCR

[@skimidybop2413]

In Fo3, the particular branch in question acted on the purifier because they wanted to help the people of the CW. As Elder Lyons states when you first meet him. They merely stayed there because he grew attached to helping the people of the CW

[@michaelcleary9463]

Can't beat Lyons Pryde but the fallout world is rough, sort of felt it gradually learning that maxons brotherhood had no heart, really well crafted.

[@tylerellis9097]

They lack many things, but heart is not one of them.

[@michaelcleary9463]

@@tylerellis9097 lol as I read your comment I could almost hear maxons voice in my mind speaking the words

[@Kxre_]

That failed persuation chain at 7:24 hurt me personally 😭

[@lonewolf0712]

Fun fact: you can quicksave before you do a speech check. Just reload the save till you get it.

[@Vexxel256]

@@lonewolf0712that’s why the chance based speech checks are a terrible idea, you can keep quickloading until you get it so there’s no point in putting points into speech/charisma

[@lonewolf0712]

@Vexxel256 survival difficulty. Plus charisma still does adjust prices, so it's still useful.

[@jerichohill487]

Love your content Butt I would think the BOS fits closer to a "paramilitary group" outside of a few external things they are very little like the actual Templars. I mean they are closer to it then Caesar is with his legion. But still not very close. Deus Vult.

[@cableryge]

Seeing you fail literally every persuasion attempt in the background is insane

[@ShadowShinobi2012]

When Maxson said, “This is why we were born”, he was referring to the birth of the organization, not destiny. The foundation of Maxson’s ideology was to prevent another Great War. The BOS HAS since twisted this and formed this core principle into more of a religious, zealous viewpoint but that wasn’t the original goal

[@TheCommieKilla]

Another one 😂😂😂😂

[@dathunderman4]

Have to disagree with the military point. Maxson wanted to separate himself from the US military, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t a military organization. US military =/= all militaries. While they have qualities that differentiate them from a nation’s military, imo they still act as a military organization.

[@deligith2995]

I love fallout 4's BoS vecause they make sure that you understand that they are not the good guys, they are a faction with objectives and interests

[@tylerellis9097]

Not really, many of them believe what they’re doing is genuinely good.

[@deligith2995]

@@tylerellis9097 yeah like any side in a real war, that doesnt mean they are the good guys but it means they are a well written faction

[@TheCommieKilla]

@@deligith2995tell me how they aren’t the good guys… cause they don’t want to help things that aren’t human?

[@deligith2995]

@@TheCommieKilla no, because they are a fascist group consisting of militar extremists that devotes itself to the extermination of al mutant life, including the inteligent one like ghouls or supermutats, and massacres every faction that stands in their way

[@TimeKillerGuy]

To be fair the BOS has always sat on either gray to dark gray in the moral standing.. depending on the leader of that chapter of that cell of the brotherhood always sits on the gray line to the dark gray, out of all the groups sadly the brotherhood of fallout tactics is the only one that reaches the light gray on the moral scale simply on the fact they were the ones that fully opened to the idea of letting anyone into the brotherhood, be it humans, ghouls, deathclaw, robots hell even a super mutant was allowed to join and was treated like a brother in arms. They openly helped most if they paid up or was willing to join and even openly shared brotherhood technology if proven a alley.

[@classicnestetris3268]

its unfortunate most of tactics is non cannon

[@TimeKillerGuy]

@@classicnestetris3268 in truth it was a interesting game, and it’s a shame most the lore was tossed, but my main issue is fallout 4 and 76 the lore behind he “new” power armor frame don’t make sense being the only faction that would have the resource to build them at that time and I’m being kind would have been the enclave and it only being the enclave from fallout 2 and even then you might have found it in a generals room as the first attempt at Mark 3 power armor and even then the only enclave project that would find it use full was the Advanced hellfire prototype armor use for wide area cleansing.

[@classicnestetris3268]

@@TimeKillerGuy the frame is explained as a big part of the lore even going way back to 1 and 2 in fact if it had been technologically possible the power armor in 3 and new Vegas would have been similar if not the same as it was in 4 and 76 anyway on a different note i really want a game set near Chicago with there being both enclave remnants those that refused to go to the dc area you could influence them to be far less genocidal potentially having them as a joinable faction and you could have remnants of the midwestern brotherhood like they went too native and the faction dissolved over time have a even bigger bad say a Chinese remnant controlled "Canadian peoples revolutionary army" wanting to do a reverse annexation of American heartland forcing both the brotherhood and enclave to work together to fight this threat or could go for vault zero not being destroyed just temporarily disabled meaning we have another robot army to deal with the possibilities are endless

[@TimeKillerGuy]

@@classicnestetris3268 honestly my issue is not the lore of the frame, I just truly don’t like how it was designed in 4 and 76, I know it fits in the lore but it just looks so damn ugly, look at F3 Tesla and hellfire power armor, now look at the creation club variant in F4 it looks clean but it also looks like you been eating fancy lad snack cakes since the day you were born. I just I would have loved to find some old school power armor that was brought by the original recon team the bos sent in 4 but what upsets me honestly the most they broken the golden rule of fallout in F4 and 76 yay need power armor training, in 4 you can get away with it playing as Nate but Nora would not have the slightest clew unless Nate would bring Nora up to the base to train her.

[@wasdwazd]

@@TimeKillerGuy To be fair, there are more games where you don't need training than games where you do. That was Bethesda's idea in Fallout 3.

[@Captain.Kincayd]

Love your content my guy, please just keep doing the things you're doing!

[@TotallyToonsTV]

When I was much younger I did always think that the Brotherhood were the good guys because I didn't fully understand the nuance of the grey area they occupy. But now I see them as a means to an end. Something to used and sometimes agreed with.

[@dragonmaster613]

It doesn't matter that the BoS is in it for themselves, it still leads to the best outcome. They still gave water to all in F3 (Lyons was all about the Greater Good, technically the Outcasts are the true Capital Chapter), the Institute was going to unleash more Mutants and Creator Knows whatever else, the Mojave ones are what you said.

[@CharlotteAren]

2:20 - you can convince McNamara to agree to a BoS-NCR alliance and the BoS actually sends multiple Paladins to help during the Battle

[@trentthehehim3936]

You’d think in a universe claimed to be about “anti-capitalism/anti-corporatism” they’d be considered “The good guys” since they are and started off in Direct conflict with the US government which became the Enclave and were in direct conflict with The Enclave in every game they appear in, either in the vanilla game or even mods/Dlc.

[@brokenbiscuit3609]

It's weird how anytime I click on one of N_orte's videos, I just instantly feel relaxed.

[@aurawolf2221]

I know people like to say Fallout 76 butchers the lore of the Brotherhood (Among other things) but i honestly don't think it does.

[@cheezthings4198]

What do the Y-17 Trauma Harnesses from Old World Blues actually do besides saying “who turned out the lights?” in their Wild Wasteland encounter?😂

[@borous.]

WELL if you had NO eyes and couldn't see and you were over 200 years old what else would you say

[@lonewolf0712]

The biggest misconception of Fallout 4s BOS is that they hate synths, ghouls, and mutants simply because they are different. This isn't the case at all, they deapise them due to the threat they present. Synths can be peaceful, but they can also be programmed to be violent, or malfunctioned (as with the Broken Mask case). Ghouls can also be peaceful, however ferals are far from peaceful, and some ghouls can go feral overtime. Mutants are the same story as ghouls. Synths are the only ones that are KOS regardless of the situation. Notice how the BOS never attacks Goodnieghbor deapite all the ghouls? Or how they won't attack your ghoul settlers or companions? They only kill threats to humanity.

[@jameskarg3240]

Thing is Roger Maxson, the guy who FOUNDED the brotherhood was himself AGAINST them isolating so obsessively. He said it himself, they CANT save fhe wastelands all alone. Reliance on help from outsides DOES pose risks, but its still necissary irregardless. They HAVE the means and skill to train outsiders. Relying on Paranoia, well...look where that got Taggerdy

[@House0Brick]

Love listening to this on road trips!

[@christopherg2347]

I would call their Creed "Techno Responsibility". They started out as the guards of the FEV project. Then mutinied against the project and the Enclave that ordered it. They understand that humanity needs technology to thrive again. But also that the old world as plenty of technology that would be horrible in the wrong hands - like the Master, Enclave, Institute.

[@thepriorstone4064]

You’ve actually convinced me that the BoS in Fallout 4 is genuinely right

[@madisons2117]

I think one part of the original Maxson's ethos really defines the ideals of the brotherhood. "I dont want MY future generations hunting with sticks and rocks."

[@progo8156]

I can't believe they didn't make that water tower accessible 😢. Missed such a good chance to make that a enterable building

[@madisons2117]

In Fallout 2 one of your missions is to get plans for vertibirds. You can then give it to the brotherhood and one of two other factions. The brotherhood keeps that stuff in their servers meaning every chapter that was in connection has access to those plans. The thing that makes the Enclave scary is their ability to make cutting edge tech. They created x-01. It wasnt a prewar tech. This is why different versions of the Enclave have different versions of this armor.

[@voltrainer]

APA wasn't prewar. but X-01 is. it's a specifically different armor in all of it's design aspects.

[@madisons2117]

@voltrainer X-01 was never intended to be pre-war. thats something Todd Howard messed up in the Nuka World dlc as well as Fallout 76. All variants of X-01 were originally made by enclaves of US government and the scientists they kept around post war. That's what made the enclave so scary. They were still making technologically advanced stuff. I consider OG lore over new age stuff.

[@ImmortalAbsol]

Need a chapter tier list video.

[@slimeyhamburger8350]

9:48 Laser rifle with no fusion cell

[@ongogablogian4396]

FO4 isn't about acquisition, rather the destruction of dangerous technology and crushing a threat to their organization. You can't tell me their methods in 4 are remotely conducive to acquiring the Institute's tech.

[@Idazmi7]

No mention of the Brotherhood's opposition to the Enclave in Fallout 2? By the way, the Brotherhood of Steel _are_ the 'good guys'. They *_aren't_* 'nice guys', likely because they live in an apocalyptic wasteland full of depravity and lethal mutants.

[@kadinwade7430]

In Fallout 3 they were able to defeat The Enclave a lot of power armor advanced I'm surprised they're only using T 60 it's all I got say

[@silverjohn6037]

WW 2 the American Shermans and Russian T34's weren't the best tanks but they made enough of them that they were able to overwhelm the notionally superior German Panthers and Tigers.

[@Tatwinus]

The lone wanderer defeats them. BoS just cleans up the scraps, without Eden they are spread out thin.

[@Kirill-ig6nr]

​​​@@silverjohn6037 The Enclave out numbered the BoS almost every time. Fo2 and Fo3 the enclave out numbered the BoS Knights quite a bit but was made up for by the highly advanced heavy ordinance robot named "Liberty Prime" and the "Chosen One" That analogy doesn't really work with the BoS

[@Deadsea_1993]

Liberty Prime destroyed majority of The Enclave when we look at Broken Steel and Take It Back. The Scribe even notes that Prime had been destroying Enclave Remnants for 2 weeks when Lone Wanderer and Sarah were knocked out. Lone Wanderer finished what Prime started. Then you also had BOS with good field officers and commanders too.

[@doctorevil444]

Plot armor is undefeated

[@laernulienlaernulienlaernu8953]

I think that while the BOS might be looking after their own interests they still try and be good at the same time.

[@varanidguy]

In the context and writing of Fallout, the BoS is imperfect but still the "good guys" in every game. They don't need to be pious, perfect, goody-two-shoes to be "the good guys". It's written to be a bit more nuanced and realistic than that.

[@ShadowTaipan]

You can make the Mojave chapter participate in Hoover Dam on side with the NCR.

[@malohn2068]

Its also the fact that, even if BoS isn't the goodiest of the good boys. Compared to everyone in fallout? Theyre literally just behind the minutemen in terms of good guys, except the brotherhood of steel has the means, the minutemen have nothing but morals. BoS is very realistic in that regard.

[@rossnorris2351]

You realize that Military Organizations have sets of core beliefs and values as well. The Brotherhood is a branch of Militaristic Monks and Scholars (Knights/Paladins and Scribes)But how Militaristic and how much the religion holds sway depends on where in the US you are. I believe after Elder Lyons and the failed elders after him, Macon has stepped away from the religious aspects of the Brotherhood and sees it as mostly a Militant order. Now out west, as shown in the series that recently aired on Amazon (awesome series btw) it showed the Brotherhood as more of a religious order. I haven't really played anything before 3 and I haven't made it through New Vegas so all I know of out west is what I've seen in videos and what the show presented. So yeah,

[@rauls.g.2518]

Going east seems to make every chapter go rogue lmao

[@AathielVaDaath]

The further from your superiors you get, the more flexible you can be... For better and for worse

[@flamesofchaos13]

@@AathielVaDaath Doesn't help that the leadership itself is isolationist and xenophobic. They don't pursue those going rogue, They don't want to learn about the outside world and what it offers...So they can't themselves offer viable solutions to stop insubordination or desertion. Though Arthur Maxson's chapter is in contact with the West is friendly and united both Lyon's and Outcasts under his banner...If there is any chance for the Brotherhood to become a single entity again it's Arthur granted he has to canonically survive the events of Fallout 4 and figure out what's going on with the "Mid-Western" chapter.

[@Deadsea_1993]

Western Chapters are isolationist and they actively can cause problems for the general population. Mojave Chapter can even Bully locals for their tech if you convince NCR to work with them. The ones in the East tend to rebrand themselves within the organization and they pull more risky moves in comparison. Lyons's Chapter is completely unlike every other chapter in recent memory as he actively seeks to protect the area and everything else becomes secondary

[@imsentinelprime9279]

​@@flamesofchaos13yeah its acommon theme amongst all the leaders of the factions in these games. They are always cooped up in some room, and never get the full picture.

[@Notapriest510]

My first playthrough of Fallout 4 I chose the brotherhood but had a soft spot for synths that were in far harbor and my boi Nick Valentine!

[@HD2OTR]

I would love to see a Fallout 5 / New Vegas 2 that unifies the Bos Coast to Coast, providing a security service to Civilized factions like the Commonwealth and NCR in exchange for scavenged technology, raw materials, and lodging. While they would be unified, Veronica Santangelo and Maxson will fight it out after Veronica recruits Danse. The Great Khans and the Followers privately work with the Enclave Remnants due to previous conflicts, living an aggressive but peaceful lifestyle for most of the populace. The Children of Atom will have grown to The Crusade of Atom, a overzealous horde of humans ghouls mutants and many of the mutated monsters of the wasteland. This Horde will be led by a ghoul confessor cromwell and Captain Avery who was exposed as a synth and exiled from far harbor, taking the identity of the mother and using old world tech to spread a radiated fog across most of the country. The fog gives her direct influence over wasteland cryptids, animals, ghouls, and weaker willed Super Mutants. While the fog has many negative factors, the one positive is that most Super Mutants and Wasteland animals have the highest awareness and intelligence in the history of Fallout some even developing the capacity to speak. The Legion has some strongholds in the south but overall has been reduced to no more than a nation wide gang of raiders and despots looking to pillage anyone they can. Their code of honor would be portrayed in an almost Monty Python style where it's hypocritical and almost comical even when it isn't meant to. The real antagonists will be a terror network of synths previously captured reprogrammed and directly controlled by a Synth copy of Robert House, who is trying to use the now nationwide power grid to jumpstart the ancient alien city located beneath Black Mountain. From here we will learn of the Enclave's presence on the moon, China's alliance with the Zetans in a bid to stop House and his Mentor Lorenzo Cabot, the sinister purpose of the dunwich cult, and many other shocking revelations!

[@Chloeprettyoccasionally]

Bethesda could never

[@HD2OTR]

@@Chloeprettyoccasionally Just gonna dream until the modders make it all 😂🤣😅😥😩😫🤮

[@MR.LMR1996]

"No! You can't help the Brotherhood of Steel take Project Purity back from the Enclave! They'll just want to control it! Never mind the fact that I asked for their Elder for help!" "Sounds like a skill issue to me, Dr. Li." Lone Wanderer, 2277.

[@nathanlynch9634]

I love the brotherhood of steel so much that I got a brotherhood of steel tattoo.

[@doomfan8603]

Ad Victorium

[@nathanlynch9634]

@@doomfan8603 Ad Victorium.

[@uhoh6166]

@@nathanlynch9634ad victorium

[@nathanlynch9634]

@@uhoh6166 Ad Victorium.

[@Alberto_Barbosa]

Embarrassing.

[@Verlurion]

The point you make about the Fallout 4 Brotherhood potentially just being interested in acquiring the Institutes technology is kinda flawed... Because they are solely interested in blowing it up.

[@slyllamademon2652]

If you’re going to do a BOS run, get enough intelligence for nerds rage after the bobblehead, do the lost patrol mission, and pass a speech check at the end to late receive a bloodied laser. It grants bonus damage equal to your missing health. Which means a full auto laser rifle is actually viable now.

[@RangerDLK]

Thanks for this informative video my good guy I love my mates but it’s funny when they start taking about misinformation

[@zeveria7206]

I never really got the impression the BoS were the good guys. It's clear from the start that Lyons is a black sheep among the organization, they're consistently antagonists in NV, and they're the final boss in half of Fallout 4's paths. Even in the Railroad, they seem more like the more significant villain since the Institute battle is a cake walk against civilians. And I thought the BoS in Fallout 4 were generally opposed to recruiting outsiders, with the SS being an exception? I recall Kells saying that it cost them dearly before. Though I don't know if he's referring to the practice in general or just the LW from Fallout 3.

[@ZehamKaiser]

You failing all of Eldar Maxon's speech checks made cringe

[@crazycherokee8552]

Nobody cares, the gameplay is entirely irrelevant most tines to the stories that are being told. Also, your fucked up spelling and grammar made *me* cringe.

[@Rubix003]

You forgot the Midwestern Brotherhood (mentioned in Fallout 3 directly and alluded to in Fallout 4 in passing NPC Dialog) despite it being in non cannon Tactics... it is cannon.

[@Tatwinus]

​@Easily Peasily there are quite a few points to them being canon though. The game is obviously not 100% part of the canon but more and more from that game is getting put into bethesdas canon all the time. Just look at the mechainist dlc for 4, much of that story lines up with vault 0.

[@flamesofchaos13]

The Mid-Western Chapter as it appears in Tactics is non-canon. Those events are non-canon. What is canon is that a Rogue Detachment of the Brotherhood used blimps, recruits Mutants and occupies Chicago (in Tactics they never were in Chicago their bunker was outside of it). It's also a fact that they at least explored Legion territory and upon interrogation don't know who Maxson is...Meaning they either don't know or don't care about their own origins. So in short...A Chapter of the Brotherhood that isn't part of the Brotherhood in any measure they've transformed into something else.

[@wyattwilson4290]

Elder Lyon’s chapter didn’t follow the Codex outright. Hence the schism

[@jackdeviluke3969]

I love how we have different chapters with varying levels of morality but my favorite will always be the one in fallout 3

[@wakencreature]

20 seconds in and he immediately guesses what i think, gotta subscribe now

[@TheAnon03]

Also, the Brotherhood only has Vertibirds because they stole the tech from the Enclave.

[@mattysharellagaming2479]

Bos killed a settlement I was working on

[@subzyro8792]

*Opens youtube* "Hmmm... what do I wanna watch... *norte uploaded 51 minutes ago* "YES"

[@KaminoNeko]

Saying the Brotherhood is not a military organization because they are a religious one is...weird. There is not a contradiction between the two. Military organizations frequently live and die on ideology (religious, political, or both), even if their leaders are simply using that to mobilize their soldiers for expansionist aims.

[@slicer2938]

minutemen: good institute: bad railroad: noble but lack in scope. brotherhood: 50 shades of grey

[@Planes_cam]

Little known fact the brother hood went into more detail in fallout 76 where they tell the story of how the brother hood became what it is today

[@MrKrystal64]

I thought the brotherhood in the west reestablished contact with maxson it's mention on quins terminal so the brotherhood in New veags didn't die out they are still there and on fact are looking towards maxson since he's the og Arthur maxson son. But we also don't know of they didn't or did help the ncr as this nor the hooverdamn battle is mentioned

[@wargames43]

I think the NCR ending with the BoS alliance is the true ending. As they got Hellios back as long as they kept power flowing to their settlements and patrolling the highway for them with the rangers

[@MrKrystal64]

@wargames43 that's my thinking. I also like to think the courier and lone wanderer are the same person as NV was a originally a dlc so I play it that way with the heascannon being the lw found a way to remove his pip boy and gave up being a courier and eventually join ceaser legion and eventually getting shot by Benny. I think it help the courier realize that shld help the ncr and help the bos after seeing the state of it.

[@CinderBurn04]

I just like the Bos because techno Knights are cool

[@moviemaker2011z]

There are a few problems with this video. One: the new vegas brotherhood does help the NCR at the second battle of hoover dam if you complete their questline and report to them that the NCR wants them destroyed. McNamara offers a counter to their destruction with promise to help defend the dam and in the end of the game the NCR and brotherhood of steel form an uneasy relationship where they both assist with problems in exchange for no longer stealing each others supplies and armor. You literally mention the truce later in the video so saying that they refused to get involved is misleading and contributes to the misconceptions you arw trying to disprove. Second: the reason the brotherhood isnt more advanced in technology is because as you stated with elder Elijah's group, its that while he wanted to develop new technologies the rest of the faction did NOT and thats what caused him and his group to splinter off. The brotherhood isnt interested in developing new technology, they are interested in preserving what is already made and developed. Will they reverese engineer technology to use? Sure but they will not actively develop their own because thats not what they believe is their purpose. Overall the brotherhood are the good guys, maybe they dont do good deeds because they want to be seen as heros, but morally they are good, and they dont believe in committing crimes against humanity to do their job. Their interest is to try and save humanity from another nuclear war. If humanity was to start to rebuild and try to function as the old world had done so many years ago i can assure you the brotherhood would aid in that process but they would most certainly try to prevent any more unnecessary wars and conflicts by trying to be the central aspect of any prevailing government.

[@Delta_Kream]

Hey Norte, sorry that it's unrelated to the video, but you said in the q&a that you don't really play FO4 with mods, so what do you do to keep the game fresh? Cause I wanna start a new playthrough and I'd rather not use mods either. Wanna wait for the next gen patch and maybe then, in case it breaks anything. So what makes you enjoy the vanilla game still?

[@RangerDLK]

I don’t really play with mods console player here I just take brakes and try new quests here and there’s d mix up my play though such as killing all the settlers I see

[@seijuroakashi9178]

A good idea is also to try new builds. Look up fallout 4 build videos and see if any interest you

[@optiTHOMAS]

To me, in Fallout 4, It always seemed quite Ludacris and counter-productive to destroy and nuke the institute rather than the BOS just take it over. They have that military might to just take it over with force. All that incredible tech that could change the commonwealth! However, I see them as not wanting it perhaps as it's too much and dangerous for humankind to have, or, it's against their beliefs. Which seems kinda dumb though as it has so much potential! Idk, man.😅 Maxon, overall, made a difference, and I like that he ensures the mental health of his soldiers as well as protecting the commonwealth with ongoing recon and vertibirds to eliminate threats. Not bad. Maybe controversial for legacy BOS, but I always really liked Elder Lyons Brotherhood in Fallout 3. They seemed more like the good guys trying to help those and make a difference! While a bit detached from the core values of the bos, I quite like them and feel they made great progress with the overall quality of life in DC. Sarah Lyons was also a badass soldier and a cool character! A good power-armored waifu! 😅 good stuff! 😆😎👍🏻

[@bredoffender]

2:32 they don't though. In one of the independent endings they take back over Helios one while still maintaining hidden valley, and in the NCR ending where you keep McNamara in place and then sign a peace treaty (there might be more, but I don't know) they ultimately end up strong and very much alive, even going as far as having a strong alliance with NCR that doesn't look like it'll break up any time soon as both factions benefit from one another. They do end up good and well in some endings.

[@silverjohn6037]

Some people don't realize that, with some extra work, you can pull together all of the factions in the Mojave to face off against the Legion. You can even have some Great Khans show up to help out, though their faction gets a better ending if you encourage them to leave the region rather than joining in with the second battle of Hoover Dam.

[@bredoffender]

​​@@silverjohn6037 yeah. While sending them northeast to Wyoming leads to a much better outcome, seeing the NCR, brotherhood, enclave and khans all working together on the day of the final battle of hoover dam to drive out the legion once and for all is truly great.

[@NorthernNorthdude91749]

@@silverjohn6037 You can even convince some former Enclave troops to join the fight as one final hurrah.

[@evelynbrocious]

@@silverjohn6037 Also the Boomers will use their b-27 if you convince them to help

[@kamakazi339]

Your argument that the BoS isn't a military organization is pretty weak. Your argument basically boils down to "They aren't military they are a paramilitary or militaristic holy order" So basically the same thing with small variation

[@incredibleflameboy]

In terms of their technological superiority I think it's a matter of semantics. The BOS are not the most advanced by far but they are the most advanced force *functioning all over the USA*. No other faction comes close to being as active and its to their detriment because if they werent so stretched out they could focus on individual projects that would rival the institute and enclave but in their current state they still outclass the average wastelander by a long shot which has raised them to an almost mythic status

[@june9914]

The power of long range radio

[@squirrelman10]

The brotherhood wasn’t trying to salvage anything from the Institute. They make that pretty obvious that they just wanted to destroy everything that the institute has done.

[@Jade_Stone_]

How could you forget about the followers when talking about technological rivals

[@NorthernNorthdude91749]

The FO4 BoS is my favorite iteration. They want to defend people, but aren't so short sighted and naive as Lyon's BoS in 3 was, and I fully agree with their interpretation of what kinda tech should be restricted, and what destroyed. Average wastelander has an old protectron carrying his supplies and he's rocking a laser rifle? Cool, carry on. But let's be real, would you trust some idiot illiterate wasteland Brahmin herder to not misuse a mini nuke armed sentry bot? No, you wouldn't. As well, due to the very nature of gen 3 synths, their entire existence is a threat to mankind, and I honestly agree with the BoS in that they should be utterly wiped out, and the tech to create them wiped from all knowledge.

[@CrawmeraxReal]

Brotherhood misconceptions Number 1: They shoot lasers out thier eyes

[@sid2112]

I mean, yeah, you can interpret their actions all you want, but the results of those actions are where you should look to place judgement.

[@ryelor123]

Found a problem with their terminals colors. From a distance, they're green yet up close they're amber. Amber and green monochrome displays used different materials.

[@TheSylverShroud]

The Brotherhood is clearly one of those factions that do bad things for the goal of something good. They are supposed to protect tech, but do some pretty bad things to get the tech. If they just changed their ways of doing stuff they wouldn’t seem so evil.

[@jackduddle9449]

In fallout no faction is truly good the brotherhood are the closest thing though And the brotherhood is and isnt a military organisation they are a quasi religious group that is militaristic but they didnt form to be different from an army thay wanted to be different from the US army cause they had no problem with military they didnt want a government politican bossing them around which the brotherhood dont need to listen to And the brotherhood dont think they are the chosen ones they dont think they were made to fulfill a prophecy it just roger trying to inspire taggerdy and the rest of the brotherhood seeing themselves as the only ones who know whats happening and how to stop it And there is a central power the chapters operate independently of the council and high elder but stay in contact and are supported by the central power and could be commanded to do things if ordered by that power it just hasnt happened but the brotherhood and outcast lore tells how lyons changed the mission in washington and support from lost hills was cut off and maxson reestablished it when he became elder meaning that there is a central power it just doesnt do much elijah and lyons were just defiant elders it doesnt mean there is no central power

[@theironfox2756]

Zetans are the most technologically advanced group.

[@steakmaster4897]

Honestly surprised that I haven’t heard anyone make the obvious comparison of the BoS to Warhammer 40K’s admech + astarties

[@DripofSteel]

When my boy brought up the enclave, he left out the biggest lore dump for them. Fallout 2.

[@zondazerda2230]

What about the mid west chapter? They went rouge too.

[@EighmyLupin]

They are from a non canon game

[@zondazerda2230]

@@EighmyLupin Guess what? They got mentioned in Fallout 3 and Chicago too. Rothschild literally called them "Rouge".

[@Chance-loss]

I love that you disguised your very competent and well written critique of the brotherhood as a misconception video. Love the vid

[@pheebobobeanie7680]

I think you’re overthinking the fallout 3 Lyon’s brotherhood. It’s clearly stated that Lyon’s is operating outside of the conventional brotherhood.

[@alecbuxton7634]

All the factions in fallout act in their own best interest the reason why Owen Lyons was more helpful to the people of the wasteland was because it made it easier to recruit useful locals to their numbers in order to replace lost troop's because no matter how friendly they appear in any game they don't accept just anyone into their ranks they usually have to have a skill of some kind of but some members of the brotherhood just hated outsiders because they consider them to be uneducated and useless hence their saying your are either part of the brotherhood or you are nothing

[@maximumoverdrive4241]

Theoratecally, how would a fight between the Desert Rangers from the wasteland series and The BOS go, who would win and who is best for the wasteland

[@TheoH.05]

Brotherhood would win a battle/war but the rangers would be best for the wasteland

[@maximumoverdrive4241]

@@TheoH.05 The rangers have killed scorpitrons and took down synth armies twice

[@Tatwinus]

​@@maximumoverdrive4241 synth armies?

[@DaZebraffe]

No, I'm sorry, but the only people who could claim that the Washington DC chapter of the Brotherhood (at least at the time of Fallout 3) is not *objectively and inarguably a group of goodguys,* are people who payed *absolutely zero* attention to the things they actually do. They actively hunt down raiders, feral ghouls, and super mutants with the intent of keeping them from harming civilians. Though you can't ever see them do it on-screen, they canonically go out and defend towns/settlements against attackers. Once the main campaign is completed and the DLC-added post-credits stuff starts, you can find them loading up entire caravans with the purified water from Project Purity, and taking them out to *give away for free* at major settlements. They do *loads* of things that are to the benefit of the citizenship of the Capitol Wasteland, and all of it at some degree of sacrifice (or at least very little benefit) to themselves. You have to be using some kind of bizarre moon logic to actually think that the DC branch of the BoS is non-altruistic at the time of Fallout 3.

[@Chloeprettyoccasionally]

Yeah that's the problem they become goody two shoes for no reason without any explanation or reason. New vegas got them perfect, the dying remnants of a once powerful but fundementally flawed group that everyone wants to get rid of, but you feel sorry for their mistakes in the end.

[@ciciciaphascain4143]

@@Chloeprettyoccasionally Uhh no? They didn't just become goodie two shoe for no reason. Lyons developed PTSD after what he saw in the Pitt, he couldn't bear to see human suffering in the East any longer, so he orders his men to help them. If anything, the NCR-BOS is the one that has no explanation or reason, the single piece of information we had is just 'disagreement over technology'.

[@Chloeprettyoccasionally]

@@ciciciaphascain4143 That's the justification in the lore. That's not what we're talking about. Also the ncr bos conflict is pretty easily explained, the ncr aligns itself with the followers' goals of using technology to help people, which is antithetical to bos values.

[@schreck1]

They are a militaristic faction its not their beliefs that make them militarized faction its the fact that their equiped and act like a military believes have nothing to do with whether their a militarized faction and your examples of non-militaristic groups were religious militaristic groups

[@Toadaboticus]

They were such unfriendly bastards in fallout 2.

[@Idazmi7]

I disagree, very strongly.

[@kyosokutai]

Forgot to include the Fallout Tactics brotherhood (not to be confused with Fallout Brotherhood, which is a hot mess in of itself)

[@AbstractStew]

My assumption is always been closer to the idea that the Brotherhood of Steel are always the villains.

[@bernardromans4971]

LOVE you Norte but it would be sick if you used Fallout 3 footage/New Vegas footage when referring to those games 😅?? Pretty please!?!😮