Shin Megami Tensei V Analysis - Redefining the Franchise

[@NamsCompendium]

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[@izanagi61]

Hey loving the video so far. Up to the story segment and im surprised you didn't mention the mediocre boss design. It feels alot worse this time around than recent entries

[@LimitBreakr424]

How can there be spoilers if there is no story :o

[@Mahaloth]

@@LimitBreakr424 This is truth. Man, this game's story was terrible.

[@DragonKingX78]

@@Mahaloth I don't care that much about the story especially compared to gameplay. Personally I would like to be able to play the game on PS4(and every other system).

[@typemoriarty3898]

It's unfortunate how many companies seem to evolve in technical matters but regress when it comes writing.

[@keithsimpson2685]

By the same token it is annoying the game has to be experienced in 2003 resolution and 20 fps.

[@defierofdeath2463]

Bruh.

[@PaintedHoundie]

@@keithsimpson2685 oh thats just the consequence of it being a switch title

[@enehmzow]

So true! Maybe all that story development went into rendering Nahobino's hair?

[@dantemustdie00]

This game is very similar to Pokemon SwSh in that regard in that the writing and general story was kinda a afterthought (seriously right after Sun and Moon which had one of the surprisingly mature story and characters) and the concentrating more on battles and visuals. But yeah I hope their next game is better with it's story and characters, next year is the 30th anniversary, so betting on something getting announced.

[@XIIIHearts]

My issue with the hidden 4th ending is that the sidequests you need to complete feels at odds with the ending’s outcome. You spent so much time helping all these demons only to chose the option that wipes them from existence and leaves only humans. Shiva’s quest was the only one that made sense because he was trying to destroy the universe, but helping Amanozako, Fionn, and Khonsu only to erase them from existence leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It’s why I prefer the Chaos route.

[@skynet0912]

Yeah, it felt kinda like ending the Geth/Quarian war in Mass Effect 3 with peace by getting enough points to get the Paragon/Renegade option on Rannoch, only to then choose the Destroy ending and wipe them out anyway! And it stings even more if you sided WITH the Geth against the Quarians, since you ended up wiping out both races in the end by doing that...

[@otterbeans]

I had the same feeling. Especially when I had to part with Aogami, who basically sacrificed himself for the player. He was my bro, I didn't want to doom him.

[@afxboc]

@@otterbeans I felt that was a nice touch. I mean, of course no one wants to part with Aogami, he's loyal to the MC and helps him all the time. I really liked his finals scenes with the MC. It added some elements of sadness to the ending. They could have easily justified Aogami surviving with "he's a proto-fiend" or "he can still be alive if fused with the protag" or something like that, and made the ending happier. So IDK, overall I liked the ending.

[@BitchChill]

This isn't Persona

[@riplix20]

@@BitchChill wow, I didn’t know the themes of a piece of media lining up with its ending was a product of SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI PERSONA and no other work of fiction ever. Seriously, they force you to make friends with, and prove that humans and demons can coexist, for the sole purpose of killing all of them. Imagine if in persona the route where you max out all the social links is also the only one where you *kill the rest of your party* Thematic dissonance bro, google it.

[@FionaAnimatesBagels]

"-any of the 200 mimans scattered throughout-" Wait a minute... (rips off mask) IT'S THE FUCKING KOROKS AGAIN

[@yourcollegedebt8384]

Ya ha ha!

[@Kairos_Akuma]

....OMG THATS WHY AFTER LIKE 80 I WANTED TO YEET THEM OF HOUSES..... Koroks.....uuuuughghghhh

[@DwayneRidgwayOfficial]

This game, honestly, makes me really excited for future games more than anything. While I had a lot of fun playing the game, seeing its shortcomings story-wise and thinking about what it could do better just makes me think about a potential "SMT V Apocalypse" of sorts. Imagining a game with the gameplay of V with a story more comparable to IV or even Nocturne is exciting to me, and I hope this game is just the beginning of what ATLUS can do with stronger hardware and a new gameplay system.

[@MrKiddyIcarus]

My thoughts exactly. It's just a shame that we won't get to experience an SMT VI until we're all on our deathbeds though.

[@cryguy0000]

Nocturne's story wasn't all that crazy either...in fact V feels like an open world Nocturne.

[@abcbcd7974]

V is almost a homerun if the story was handled better and was darker but still the game is still great in my eyes.

[@simpcat4415]

@@cryguy0000 I was gonna say, nocturnes story is equally unfocused and weak imo

[@RpgBlasterRpg]

Dazai turned into a edgelord So no,jonathan is better

[@j.k.3920]

Great video! One thing that bugged me about the narrative was that it felt no one was acknowledging each others actions. There multiple parts in that story where no one is recognizing that a character is back or that they want to go see a particular person. Either way, loved the combat in this game.

[@Bone1996]

I think what got me was that when it came to Dazai, aside from his sudden "im a badass warrior of YHVH now" turn, was that even when he was just meekly trying to lean onto Abdiel and stick up for her in front of Yuzuru and Tsukuyomi, they never bothered arguing with him or trying to convince him to firmly side with them, like how Walter and Jonathan slowly started growing apart and bickering before finally crossing swords over Lilith. Those briefings between each act of the game, at Bethel HQ with all 3 of them present, would've been a perfect time to have Yuzuru develop more and make himself starkly contrast with Dazai, but instead we just get "oh huh, I can be a Nahobino? ok then let's do it Moon Daddy" before having one yelling match with Dazai right before The Empyrean.

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

@@Bone1996 Yea, they really needed to build the tension there, not sure why they didn't, considering it was very easy to do. But yea, Dazai going full Aizen was the worst part of the story for me. The transformation is ridiculous considering that no other nahobino had the human completely change personalities.

[@DragonKingX78]

Someone said it best when they say that the characters "talk at you" instead of "talking to you" when speaking about their ideals, plans, etc.

[@antichton1926]

I vastly agree with all of this. In my view, V has the potential to be the greatest stories SMT has ever synthesized. So many twists, spins, and ideas that Atlus had planned, but there was never enough. So much to be desired, with so many characters with limitless potential. Waiting for the rerelease, and hoping it will fix these problems.

[@DragonKingX78]

I am also hoping for special edition...for PS4, PS5, PC, etc..

[@KamenracerX]

With the announcement of SMT V: Vengeance on all the platforms, fingers crossed that Atlus will fix V's problems...

[@eyoshinthemaximum]

Imo SMT V Vengeance did fix these problems, I felt engaged in Tao and Yoko’s stories at the very least and the actual plot was interesting and had cool twists in the middle and end of the story

[@ttarzzxz3711]

This game was so much fun, I was amazed how much fun I had exploring and finding all the collectables. You can break the late game but the early game was extremely difficult for me and I loved to play the game

[@alsaiduq4363]

I felt quite apathic about this game after beating. I felt like it was good game but i felt empty, but not in a good way. I felt nothing when the game finished. The gameplay is so good that its feel bizzare how lackluster the story and characters are.. I legit thinm this game is unfinished or the script was re-made mid devemploment. Especialy everything about Yuzuru. I really wish i could ask what they were thinking when they add Yuzuru in the game and thought was fine.

[@ShionKenobi]

Definitively unfinished. Humanoid Nuwa and Fallen Abdiel were never fough (only saw in cutscenes), yet here they are, to be fused in New Game Plus. Same for Beelzebub, who is not even making a appearance, even being summonable on NG+, and a very popular old time demon. Yuzuru, Tao and Sahori were rushed and botched. You never even speak alone to Sahori, yet is supposed to care about her (and the elements to care are there). Egypt questline could and should have been a entire new chapter. Is also the only place Miyazu is relevant.

[@skynet0912]

@@ShionKenobi Yeah... I guess story and characters have never been a direct focus of these games, and you are suppossed to not focus on it too much, but if you play and love basicly any other JRPG in the world BESIDE SMT, the nearly complete lack of story, character and worldbuilding is kind of a shift, and feels more at home in hack and slash games... It has taken me, no joke, two and a half playthroughs to learn just three of the names in the game, and i'm fairly certain it's simply because you hear a name enough times that it just ends up sticking, and not actual interest like with other JRPGs... Hell, i learned every name in Trails of Cold Steel in one playthrough, simply because i found every character interesting to at least some degree, despite never having played a Trails game before Cold Steel, And there are like a hundred names, titles and factions to keep track off in those games, but it just felt natural, where SMT character names feel coincidental which one you remember first... The only reason i know the demons is because they have actual personality, and based on actual demons, gods and folklore, making them very easy to keep track off...

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

@@ShionKenobi I agree about Tao and Yuzuru but not Sahori. Sahori and Lahmu are just a plot device so that the player can get a further grasp on what Nahobino really is. Those two deserve no further roles after they died nor they need to be fleshed out prior to their story in the game. Ironically, Dazai and Abdiel took their place to explain the antithesis of Nahobino.

[@afxboc]

@@ShionKenobi That's not really proof or anything tbh. NG+ demons are usually a thing in SMT. Fallen Abdiel or Humanoid Nuwa being summonable demons on NG+ doesn't mean they originally planned them to be bosses on the main story. Belzeebub not appearing is... fine? According to that same criteria Nocturne was also unfinished because Alice, which is also a classic and popular demon, wasn't even in the game. Recurring demons won't always have a story/sidequest role, and that's fine. It allows more room for other demons to have some involvement in the game beyond being summonable/recruitable. Yuzuru I agree needs more development, though to be honest his stance at the end of the game is pretty much the same he has at the beginning of the game. So I guess you could argue he doesn't really need much development, unlike Dazai, who does change drastically. Still, I agree he needed more, mostly in the second part of the game. Tao and Sahori are fine, I disagree there. Both appearing just in half of the game doesn't mean they were rushed. Sahori and Tao had a small and brief arc, but it worked well. A brief arc isn't necessarily a bad thing. You could have some extra dialogue with Sahori when you were around the school, which would be nice, but IMO it doesn't drastically change the overall result. Egypt questline I agree it was probably originally intended for the main story. Mainly because it has it's little own area and because Khonsu is in the cover art, though he could have been added there just because he was a new demon and they liked him, who knows.

[@BitchChill]

@@afxboc I find it out how you can't fight Kohnsu in the main story

[@AsterBTT]

Honestly, I really enjoyed the worldbuilding within the narrative. The background of the Nahobino, the details of what happened to Demons and Knowledge, and the shaky alliance of Demons and Angels made for a world that was not only interesting to explore, but also interesting to learn about from a lore perspective. Unfortunately, the actual story, and thus your Alignment, is tied to a group of poorly-handed humans and not the cool-as-shit Demons we fight near the end of the game. Tao was honestly the only human character I thought was compelling at all, and we got less of her than anyone else. It's a shame that such a cool world wasn't done justice within it's narrative.

[@mithras9706]

I don't know how you got to that conclusion, Tao is quite possibly the blandest character in the game and yes, I'm including the Atsuta siblings. Plus Shohei and Dazai were actually nice and interesting (at least before the end of the game).

[@mrfox5117]

To be honest, I felt Tao and Yuzuru needed more screen time in their respective areas (Shingawa and Minato), because compared to Dazai (who appears throughout the game, and has alot of appearances in Chiyoda), both of them are rarely seen outside of act four. Whenever we do see them, they are exposition dumping. Yuzuru never has much time to be a older brother, and Tao isn't really depicted as "The popular girl" very much outside of the opening cutscene. As for the plot, I don't think it is bad, we just need less exposition and more character moments as mentioned before. The reaction to the main cast finding out their Tokyo is a lie is painfully subdued, and accepted very quickly. Sahori is introduced and killed in the same act, and while she is actually decently written, why don't we see her or Lahmu anywhere in Shingawa before Shingawa station? Minato is actually a really good introduction to the plot, accept it makes zero sense for Yuzuru to accept the MC's transformation because "I can tell your still in there uwu", and then split up when they both are in a dangerous place, filled with demons, that neither have been to before,

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

@@mithras9706 This. Tao was definitely the most bland, actually was more interested in Mizuru (or however you spell her name). Dazai was amazing until he went full Aizen.

[@DracoSkyGX]

I heard that this game was supposed to lean towards the Law ending, like how SMT 3 Nocturne was Chaos leaning, but instead it leaned toward Neutral. I feel like they could have done more if they gave the Law faction more depth by telling a story from the Law faction's perspective. Here's my idea: In Nocturne, the MC watched his whole world destroyed because of God's/ YWYH's system and joined Lucifer's army to topple the tyrant who set the system. In this game it's said that before YWHY rose to power it was basically a constant battle for the throne and the rulers always being overthrown. So a possible story from the Law perspective could go like this: YWYH and his followers were sick of the constant battles and even lost loved ones to it so when YWYH rose to power he put a stop to it and the systems he put in place were measures to ensure that it wouldn't happen again. I feel like a story like that would give the player something to think about when making a choice for the ending they want to reach, but instead like in standard SMT fashion YWYH and the Law faction are portrayed as tyrants, just because.

[@valletas]

You know what would have made this game better? If the leaders of bethel also got nahobino forms I can understand shiva and konshu became ra so thats cool but man not having zeus and odin be a nahobino was a missed opportunity At least they are all cool characters... Not counribg odin because he did jack shit and even refused to explain his world view At least zeus was entertaining

[@seth7726]

This game made me realize how important is the story and characterization to SMT, or like, any other RPG. Gameplay is extremely fun, but always felt like it was mindless fun (like that type of fun you would get out of an arcade game). I just couldn't get that feeling of immersion other Megaten games offer. Interest fades away after a few hours, no matter how fun the game may be. I know not everyone feels the same, but I mostly play RPGs to experience a great adventure. I have loved every Megaten game i've played before, but with this one I, for the first time, can't really say the same. Not a bad game by any mean, but not the SMT game I was expecting.

[@blurb9319]

I'd say the characterization of the side characters not affiliated with the main story helped lessen this for me. The side quests involving Amanozako, Khonsu, Demeter, etc. helped add that sense of life that was a bit lacking in the main plot.

[@williamwick5993]

I agree with you entirely! It feels empty and i’m not willing to sink gobs of time into this. Couldn’t put my finger on it exactly, your description is on point.

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

You guys have complete opposite feeling of me. The story of this actually kept me interested, and the gameplay loop makes this the only replayable SMT ever created. Already on my 2nd playthrough. Couldn't be asked to pick up the other ones a 2nd time.

[@نونيم-ي4ح]

Since when did smt have good stories? At most they are serviceable when they become story heavy you get an abomination like apocalypse

[@seth7726]

@@نونيم-ي4ح They might not be perfect, but I can't really call them bad by any means. I just enjoy Megaten stories for what they try to do different compared to most other RPG franchises. Also dismissing other games' stories just because one became a failure seems kinda unfair imo

[@keeysOST]

I think I can confidently say this is tied with SMT IV as my favorite game in mainline. V gets held back by it's story, but the combat makes it so much fun to play and fuse demons. The atmosphere and music were phenomenal. While it's not as dark as Nocturne, I can appreciate that they tried giving V it's own identity even when it references Nocturne I think this game succeeds in where a lot of open games fail at. The quests and world design make you feel like you're actually there with demons.

[@mysticalhero2460]

I agree with you, Just beat the game today and although the ending and the story left me wishing there was more and had more questions than answers I still say this is a really good SMT game

[@TrvisXXIII]

Mann these comments kill me when they harp on story holding back a game 😂 read a book, or watch a movie if you want a good story lol is the game fun?? That’s all that matters

[@mysticalhero2460]

@@TrvisXXIII An rpg's story has a big part on the game and no one said the game sucks. It's the same situation has apocalypse although I had more fun playing 5 than I did 4A that's for sure

[@TrvisXXIII]

@@mysticalhero2460 glad to hear that, wasn’t trying to dismiss what you were saying, I just wanted to emphasize how much gameplay means more than story. Tbh, I haven’t played a single game who’s story is that memorable as far as I can remember, it was always the combat that gave me nostalgia

[@keeysOST]

@@TrvisXXIII I feel like you didn't read my comment. At no time did I say the story ruined the game for me. Besides, it's not a good reason to not make a good story either.

[@m.s.e.advanced2842]

While the story is pretty lackluster (candy) , the gameplay and designs are so good they make it my favorite SMT game

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

The gameplay loop is so good I didn't even notice the story was bad. I was too focused on perfecting my team and planning my next playthrough 😂

[@iantaakalla8180]

Lackluster candy sounds like the effect that no matter the level of buffs or debuffs all of those changes would be removed.

[@DragonKingX78]

A good story is great but game play is always number one for video games....at least it is for me.

[@VPalamedes25]

Here I thought Koshimizu was neutral & Yakumo was chaos, honestly it makes sense but as usual neutral is always the most interesting. Also anybody know if someone's made an alignment guide alongside all the rewards for each (exclusive miracles & demons, etc.), it would really help for the sake of multiple playthroughs

[@riplix20]

You choose your ending in this game, it isn’t based off of your prior actions. So a guide would be “ pick the one you want unless you want true end then go do side missions “

[@VPalamedes25]

@@riplix20 Yeah, I know that but it does actually serve a purpose, there's a miracle for each alignment but your prior actions are what even allows you to get that miracle iow if you make law aligned choices but pick chaos, you don't get the miracle that's the only reasons why a guide would be useful. Apart from that I already know that you won't get access to everything (new special fusions & probably some other things) until you do another cycle

[@KRP71390]

@@VPalamedes25 wasn’t it just: top option for Law, bottom option for Chaos? That was my impression, at least

[@cameronlodor6985]

I think something that could have really made the Maghatsuhi gauge alot more dynamic would be to make only Omagatoki Critical use the full bar, while also being the only one that doesn’t use one of your turns. Maybe that would be cracked as shit, but it would at least incentivize using the other skills too.

[@alone9871]

Using any Magatsuhi skill does not consume any press turn, regardless of who is using it. I think Critical is quite weak. The way I build my party, Freikugel Ex, Savage, or Waters of Youth made my crew far more deadlier and resilient than Critical can achive, especially with Yoshitsune's Hassou Tobi and Yabusame Shot skill spread out throughout all of my mid to high tier demons with physical potential that essentially made Critical near obsolete.

[@lucasbittencourtnogueira5858]

or not getting it at the start of the game. if you get it at a later optional dungeon and use only it afterwards and beat the game, ok cool, but at least you didnt go from the start using only it

[@dljb7463]

I agree kinda some of the effects are just...really bad or get outclassed by other magatsuhi skills

[@chaincat33]

Critical is one of if not the weakest magatsuhi skills. Magic crits are cool, sure, but we have dragon fists in this game, and all the other magatsuhis do something way better. Adversity and Savage are the best damage buffs in the game, impaler's glory is the best charge in the game, even freikugel EX is better because it gives you a 500 base damage almighty fuck you beam that deletes basically anything you point it at (admittadly it does fall off in usefulness though, but it does make the mid game a breeze)

[@koharuyuuki3162]

Honestly for the story I think Lahmu should've been the side quest while Miyazu and Khonsu were the main quest

[@ShionKenobi]

All the Egypt questline (Horus, Mithras+Asura Lord, Amon, Khonsu, Khonsu-Ra) could be a chapter of it's own worth. Same with Baal-Demeter, but substituting Moloch by other Bel-type demon (Beelzebub, Belial, Bael...) for questline 2, making ref to Devil Survivor 1.

[@koharuyuuki3162]

@@ShionKenobi yeah it's kind of a bummer that Beelzebub isn't a boss or even an unlockable demon.

[@Mikeyboy779]

@@koharuyuuki3162 you can fuse him

[@iskoconquers]

@@koharuyuuki3162 Almost like he was cut

[@iskoconquers]

@@ShionKenobi Miyazu, I would have thought perhaps she would be a potential Goddess that would be an ally and may be at odds with the one we currently have....

[@ItzIqi]

I really enjoy the gameplay of V and the idea of everyone gunning for the throne of creation. Wished they focused more on that throughout the game instead of it being after the summit.

[@digitaldewi1662]

This game just need the Maniax/Director's cut edition like really bad. Regardless of that, this is also become my fav in the series.

[@tokyobassist]

100%. The game has a leitmotif but has no intro video or music on the title screen. The game great but it's got some really odd things missing and characters are super understated or forced onto us to care like Tao and Miyazu. Atlus rereleases are a monkey's paw though because they always screw something up with varying degrees of quality.

[@yourcollegedebt8384]

Coming back to this video after Vengeance was announced. We're getting the Maniax edition, baby!

[@alph7391]

For every shortcoming the story has I like it, I think what it shows is that hopefully with the gameplay now at its finest the story should eventually meet that point in later entries… hopefully

[@kintarooe8688]

Okay but explain how level scaling is a good change in the gameplay? This is the most grinding SMT game.

[@gaiko804]

I'm so excited for you to tackle about the Devil Survivor series as it is my go to SMT series. I love the mainline series but there's something unique and cool about the Devil Survivor series even if its the good (DeSu1) or the not-so-good (DeSu2).

[@antoucool]

Definitely the best gameplay wise and a good foundation for the future of the franchise

[@keeysOST]

I feel like it's a botw situation. They have a good foundation. Just need to work on that plot and slap both together.

[@antoucool]

@@keeysOST I personally didn't like a lot of the changes in BOTW, but I get your point.

[@dantemustdie00]

Yeah this game is definately laying down the foundation for Console Megaten games in the future, hell the 3oth anniversay is next year, something might be announced.

[@BitchChill]

I have 100 hours in the game

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

This is GOTY tbh, which I couldn't say for any past SMT's

[@illusive-mike]

On gameplay, I'd note that I've not seen level scaling of damage this bad since Devil Survivor, and the 4th main area just about completely falls apart because of it. This area has no main route unlike the previous ones, and the main bosses are ~10 levels above the local generic mobs. The major sidequests have no level hints, so you may start doing a certain major quest so late it becomes a joke, or alternatively blaze through that quest chain only to suddenly face an endgame-grade boss at the end of it. And if you abuse the levelling tools that are normally available in this game (even without the grinding DLC the Mitama spawn rates are very generous and there are fixed Mitama spawn locations) you may end up severely overlevelled for the endgame to the point that the damage scaling would trivialize the opposing bosses. Most areas in the game are more linear than they would first appear, and that's a good thing. The game is balanced around the player doing sidequests and incidentally growing without much explicit grinding. This ensures a tight gameplay loop that carries the whole experience far beyond the sparse and rushed story beats. But the final main area doesn't facilitate this, so the normally great gameplay loop suddenly breaks down and exposes some nasty issues.

[@seth7726]

Yep, I feel like this defeats the purpose of party customization before going on a difficult boss. On one hand, if you are underleveled, no matter how good your party can be against a boss, you'll get obliterated by the damage even by basic attacks, let alone an AoE move. On the other hand, if you are overleveled, even if your party is full of exploitable weaknesses that the boss can benefit from, their damage will be so minuscule that it won't even matter. Not only that, but the Vit, Str and Mag stats become useless if you are severely underleveled...

[@koheikyouji]

Just looking at your point about the game being balanced around you completing the sidequests and I cannot emphasize how right you are. In my run once I got to the fourth da'at area I cleared the entire map, found every item and miman, did every encounter whilst exploring and even did some macca grinding and only went up maybe 3 or 4 levels in the zone? My idea was to clear the zone without doing any sidequests, and then make a save file so I could replay the quests at any time (without the need of exploring such a massive area again or doing NG+), and those quests shot me up 18 levels total! In addition to giving me Grimoires and Gospels. My lvl63 character went all the way to lvl81 just because of the sidequests in that 4th zone, and then shot all the way up to lvl96 once I cashed in the Gospels. Insanity.

[@badabingbing474]

Probably did that so they could entice players into buying the DLC crap for faster leveling and money.

[@koheikyouji]

@@badabingbing474 I dont know for certain but thats certainly how I feel... Theyve had grinding DLC for every SMT game since the 3DS titles now and its getting a little sickening

[@illusive-mike]

​@@badabingbing474 Doesn't feel like it to me. Taito bosses are strong in a vacuum, but if you do the area while leaving them alone (which just doesn't feel good) they can be balanced. You just don't know you're supposed to do that since all previous areas are linear. Plus, overlevelling is just as much of a problem with this system, since the final boss of the secret ending will universally be a joke after beating the pre-requisite super-boss that is 6 levels higher. Also, there are fixed Mitama spawns, including the brown ones, so if you want to grind levels you absolutely can do that with no DLC. That isn't to say that grinding DLC in general isn't sleazy as fuck. But outside Taito just throwing all structure to the wind, this game is well-balanced for playing without it. If anything, this means that using the grinding DLC will make you so hopelessly OP only the Demi-Fiend has any chance of giving you a reality check anymore, and that doesn't make for fun gameplay either. Like in the 3DS titles, this DLC is an afterthought that demands money to break the main attraction of the game (pretty much the only attraction for this one in particular with how badly the plot is handled).

[@OnDavidsBrain]

On a gameplay and exploration perspective SMT V is a milestone for the franchise. Writing however is a whole other kettle of fish. At least Altus seems to recognize that and will hopefully fix the narrative problems in the Vengeance story in SMT V Vengeance. Here’s hoping they knock it out of the park. At the very least the PS4 version will get me at least 2 let’s plays.

[@OnDavidsBrain]

They did, the Canon of Vengeance is a far better story than the Canon of Creation.

[@koheikyouji]

I really do feel that if theyre going to have the Magatsuhi skills again, they should give each skill a value between 1 and 3 or something, and the weaker ones use less of the gauge (ones like the 'soothe over conversations with a demon this turn'. That should not be costing my whole bar.) Or allow the Magatsuhi bar to lap itself maybe 3 times, and then the more bars are filled, the stronger your hp and sp/mp regen. That way theres a bigger cost for using the stronger Magatsuhi skills, but if you want to keep your regen, use the weaker Magatsuhi skills. As it stands the only ones I saw value in were the critical, adversity, free casting for a round, and the one thats basically Salvation. Also...Magatsuhi skills not carrying over to NG+ is insane, considering how late-game some of them are unlocked. It makes certain races have much much less value than others.

[@DragonKingX78]

That would have been interesting. Also if the bar lap itself multiple times, abilities based on the bar being "full" could get stronger based on how many laps....like one that gives you HP/MP regen.

[@ygkellogs8447]

I definitely think this game has the best gameplay, demon interaction and in my opinion ost, so i could agree with people saying its the best in the series, but aside from story my biggest gripe with the game is the inconsistent tone, the areas no longer feel like these grounded horror game atmospherically, and they also dont go fully surreal trip like dds past the begining which is what i initially tought it was going for, it just feels a bit weak in that aspect which they nailed so hard in 3 and 4.

[@lucasbittencourtnogueira5858]

reds farm in 4 was like, the peak tension I could experience in these games

[@HEROFrogman69]

After finishing an smt game, I come here to see what you think and I truly love your videos. Keep it up

[@gxstalten]

SMT V was my first entry to the SMT series (other than Persona), and since then I've kinda gotten obsessed with the lore. It's a great gateway to the series imo, and I'm definitely going to grab a SMT VI if it ever comes out. Also the obsession with it now has made me discover your channel and enjoy your content, so props to SMT V and to you

[@amirgarcia547]

Even if SMTV has its rough edges, especially when it comes to the narrative, its ambition, addictive gameplay and how breathtaking and fun to explore the worlds are does give SMT a bright future by leaving the template for an even-better follow-up. There are parts of this game that feel rushed or mismanaged mainly because ATLUS put their new focus on both adapting the series to a new engine and vastly changing the focus to be more like Xenoblade Chronicles instead of a pure dungeon crawler. And I can definitely appreciate what SMTV adds to the table, as well as hope that the next game returns what was great about it along with ironing out its kinks.

[@KeyToAeris2024]

I loved almost everything about SMTV from the gameplay to the exploration to the kickass soundtrack made by Kozuka the only thing I didn’t like was the narrative and it looks like I’m not the only one. Hope we get an apocalypse type game in a few years

[@eddie788]

Shit, we will probably be getting our own apocalypse in the next few years.

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

@@eddie788 With a similar narrative. But that's life

[@eddie788]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 yup, NWO and all, just like the ending talks about

[@johnnyfitzlive]

I loved how this game streamlined and refined the mechanics, but I really found myself missing the mystery and presentation of IV.

[@amybrooks4669]

I really loved SMT5 until I was in the mid 50s and fused a team of Yoshitsune, Red Rider and Idun. After I had those demons I only ever used essences to cover their weaknesses and didn't need to change my team at all, including for Shiva and the endings. The only roadblock to using those three demons for the entire game was how harsh the level scaling, which was easily dealt with thanks to how generous the game is with Grimoires. On a side note, I hate how the level scaling works in SMT5, it felt like I could build a team to perfectly counter the enemy's attacks and weaknesses but just be too underlevelled to beat it; on the other hand even the side content that is supposed to be challenging can be made trivial with by just being 5 or so levels above the enemy, to a point where you don't actually have to change your team comp or consider weaknesses at all. It was probably why I didn't like the changes to buffs so much, because it made the level scaling feel so much more punishing when you're underlevelled, but it would have exacerbated the problem with being overlevelled. I know this mechanic is in other games like Nocturne, but it isn't felt anywhere near this harshly in the other games. Also, why don't side quests have level indicators on them at all? It takes the above level scaling issue, which if I didn't make clear made me enjoy the game so much less, and adds a trial and error barrier to all of the sidequests. If you're too underlevelled you'll just die, hope you saved. If you're too overlevelled there'll be no challenge at all to the fight and its too late to go back to a point where you weren't overlevelled. The poor narrative, level scaling and access to super overpowered demons really early on made SMT5 so much less fun for me, and I prefer most other megaten games to it tbh.

[@leatherfasesin7717]

Ironic thing is, in my experience the "can be made trivial with by just being 5 or so levels above the enemy" part was instead "can be made trivial even while being 5 or so levels below the enemy", even on Hard. I was always one to five levels lower than any minor or major boss I ever fought in SMT V (and I haven't fought only DLC boys and Shiva), and yet I beat 95% of them first try with also pretty much the same party, while sometimes even being weak to their attacks. Can't even imagine how piss easy the game must be if you are actually overleveled. As for side quests not having level markers, I honestly don't think they are needed. With the exception of a few quests in the first area, most notably Huang Long's battle, all of them can be done immediately after getting them.

[@egebamyasi2929]

Not much that I have to add to this review and the point already mentioned in the comments. However, one thing I found odd about essences is that you can get essences from endgame demons much earlier (Baal, Amanozako, Beelzebub etc.) which results either amazing skills early on or busted MC affinity coverage. Pretty weird imo

[@PunchinBag01]

Oh hell yea ive been waiting for this beast of a video to drop.

[@Pduarte79]

Are you gonna do a SMTV Vengeance video?

[@Splitboltxful]

Nam, your voice has really improved. You sound super confident. Love the vid, keep up the good work!

[@riku30005]

Only found your channel recently, and I've really been looking forward to this one.

[@frogzx]

Gameplay, music, and designs were all great. But good god the story and characters were so piss poor that I have to wonder what happened. If Nocturne is minimalist, SMT V is "we just aren't even going to try".

[@koheikyouji]

Glad i'm not the only one who thinks so. Many people seem to rag on anyone who hates the cast/story of this but likes the cast/story of Nocturne. I'd say they both have problems in the same categories, but SMTVs problems are on steroids by comparison. It doesnt help that the marketting seemed to imply that these characters were going to have a big focus.

[@bubalackgaming8892]

While I was severely disappointed with SMT V's story(to the point that I felt it was hard to even continue playing to the end it was so grating), I think it set such a good framework for future SMT games that I can't help but feel giddy at the thought of what they'll be like

[@EinFelsbrocken]

The one thing SMT has always been missing is a Pokémon-like (Gen 1-3) structure to its world and leveldesign. The story can be thin and open, BUT there must be a solid world for the player to explore. Unlockable areas; shortcuts and smaller interactions with the game world and even very hollow NPCs can give a lot of depth to a game. And I feel like SMT is *THIS* close to hit the spot a lot of "old" Pokémon fans would love; without alienating the SMT veterans. Have a cryptic story with adult themes; have the fusing/collecting/refining; have the amazing gameplay basis; have the dungeons, have all of the SMT staples, BUT rethink the world design just a little; and it'll make it all more believable and gripping; imho. But maybe Im wrong; who knows. 😅

[@TrvisXXIII]

I’m 3 hours in and I can’t put this game down, job well done

[@zyonhunter]

while i liked the gameplay (it had some flaws like physical skills costing MP, lack of exp gains in later areas and awful level scaling.) and seeing the demons in glorious 3D again, the main story and characters left a lot to be desired. i also miss buying equipment.

[@moogcity_2]

how the physical skills costing MP is a flaw?

[@zyonhunter]

@@moogcity_2 demons who tend to be strong physically has less MP than HP.

[@moogcity_2]

@@zyonhunter fair, but like in smt IV, you take a shitload of damage, using HP on physical attacks would be like shooting your feet. i do prefer physical using hp, but it's not necessarily a flaw.

[@zyonhunter]

@@moogcity_2 if you can manage your HP, there should be no issue. especially by end game when restore spells usually restore all your HP.

[@moogcity_2]

@@zyonhunter surely, at this point in the game HP recovery is no problem, but mid and early the heal is pretty lackluster, and most of the enemies can knock you easily with 1 - 2 attacks. (hard mode, at least.)

[@Janfey]

Biggest flaw, Nintendo Switch exclusive.

[@DragonKingX78]

I agree, this game should have gone multi-platform day one.

[@7thFormVoid]

Not anymore heh

[@zman2748]

my personal GOTY. never played a mainline smt game before but really loved most everything about this.

[@DragonKingX78]

The only mainline SMT game I have played is SMT Nocturne, would love to play 5 if it ever comes to PS4.

[@fennfeno]

​@@DragonKingX78ta-daaa!

[@damedesuka77]

I dropped this game after meeting that Finn McCool guy. There's nothing in the story up to that point that managed to pique my interest. I know SMT games never had a mindblowing story in general, but in the past games there's always something that makes me want to push further. It might be a character, the dread/horror in the world's atmosphere, the factions, something. There's nothing like that in 5. So when I hit a wall (Finn's boss battle) I simply lost all motivation to continue the game. I don't even know who I was fighting, that Finn guy just came out of nowhere lol.

[@issacthompson330]

S tier Gameplay B tier Story Sounds right to me.

[@DragonKingX78]

Game play is king now if Atlus would just release it on PS4/5, X-Box, PC, etc.

[@brackishmusic6528]

Absolutely agree on basically every point you bring up here The story really felt like it forgot it had to exist until the final few hours of gameplay, where it actually becomes really really good, but feels sadly rushed. If only the pacing was spaced out better, and as you said we could've gotten more time with each of the allinged characters, the story could've been fixed so easily. However dispite that, this probably is my favorite game of the year, and favorite SMT game in general! The combat is so satisfying this time around, and leads to so many oppertunities, never really much felt like a grind, yet battles felt like a mental war every time to get the best possible outcome for me, and i never got bored listening to the amazing OST for this soundtrack. From the serene or chaotic filled tracks of the overworlds, to some of the amazing bangers of the fight themes, or the downright frightening Shiva boss theme. Absolutely amazing video always nam! Keep up the amazing work

[@RaidenKaiser]

This isnt eclusive to smt 5 but my thing is chests dont feel rewarding because there is alot of times they give items i can get by grinding easily like beads. The lack of unique treasures makes opening chests feel like its marginally worth my time rather than a grand reward.

[@Aczie042]

My biggest complaint, where is Dante, from the Devil May Cry series?

[@the_clawing_chaos]

Honestly, I think Nuwa is the better Neutral representative. She totally got me over the line on the neutral route. I hope they add to the story in the invetiable golden version

[@krispy_kornflake]

this is still not persona tho

[@BitchChill]

@@krispy_kornflake He means an enhanced re-release which will likely happen

[@samperez1727]

Nuwa is certainly much more charismatic than Yakumo. She has the optimism in humanity's potential that defines Neutral routes in the series, in contrast to Yakumo's pessimism of most of humanity (save for a few chosen ones). She also gives us some insight into Yakumo's backstory that not even Yakumo himself provides. Nuwa is also willing to bear the sacrifice of having a world for humanity with no demons (herself included). She feels like the human creation goddess she's supposed to be, she sees the large potential in the main character to save humanity, and she puts up with Yakumo way more than I ever could. As far as the Neutral routes go, I do it with way more empathy for Nuwa than Yakumo.

[@bobothetransdimensionalhob2659]

I hate the fact that SMT5 brings up so many interesting questions pertaining to its world yet it never answers them. It doesn't even try to do so. Kinda makes since, due to how the game has undergone multiple rewrites.

[@willmgs3903]

I know some veterans hates it but to me it’s the best in all of Megaten including Persona. I enjoyed that it didn’t have too much dialogue or didn’t try to do too much like 4 Apocalypse and a lot of the story is told through some side quests, environments and through random NPC encounters. Can’t wait for SMT V: Royal/Apocalypse/Golden/etc and then SMT VI 👌🏾

[@veila0924]

I really enjoyed the game up until the end of the second area. While the combat is great, it can only do so much when the story is non-existent.

[@JustDaZack]

Glad that after Devil Survivor and Persona, this will be my first proper entry into the mains series. 😁

[@marcoschavez173]

15:57 well jokes on us i guess! Only took two whole years

[@Rilobster]

game has no adachi 0/10 hm? new jack frost design? aight 6/10

[@scar3crow_art]

Just completed my first play through on New Years Eve. Opted in the Myriad of Gods route for my first time, now going back through to get the other endings. The story was good, unfortunately, their was alot of missed opportunities with the plot.

[@itsaboy213]

I wish you had talked about Miyazu. She gets a lot of flak for basically disappearing and having no development, but it seemed to me like she was meant to be the antithesis of the MC and the alignment reps. IE each of these characters want to help humanity in their own way but lose their own humanity in the process. Whereas Miyazu openly rejects Khonsu's plan (even though she is terminally ill) in order to preserve her own humanity and wants to help people in a much more simple way by becoming a nurse.

[@alsaiduq4363]

I'm pretty sure Sahori, the bullied girl, was meant to be the antithesis of MC. They even said so in one of the character design interviews.

[@itsaboy213]

@@alsaiduq4363 I see the interview you are talking about and the phrase used is "counterpart". A counterpart usually means a compliment of something else while antithesis is meant to be diametrically opposed. To be fair it could be a translation issue? In the sense of what I referenced in my original comment Sahori is actually the most aggregious example of a character losing their humanity imo. For her it wasn't a sacrifice for some perceived greater good but was in fact purely for revenge. It even says in the interview you mentioned directly after the counterpart line: "Without the player’s support, it is very difficult for the average human to escape the temptations of the demons. In the game, you’ll watch from the sidelines as people get entangled by the hands of demons." Miyazu was the exact opposite of this. She is not tempted at all by Khonsu's offer and wholeheartedly rejects it without any input from the MC to the point of interrupting you when you have the choice before Khonsu is going to take his own life.

[@thomasr.6669]

Funny thing with the last dungeon area of the game, I battled every enemy so I can grind to a high enough level where I could use all my accumulated Gospels to max out my Nahobino to lvl 99 lol.

[@samperez1727]

I did this too, but the maximum level is 99. I got a bunch of Gospels after doing this strategy, and I'm slightly upset at having them sitting in my inventory doing nothing for me now haha. I wished you still got status increases after level 99 from using Gospels, but you have to use Balms instead.

[@BathtubMicrowave64]

I would love a "True God Ending" where maybe we play the story again but instantly the tone is different as we are the god overseeing things, i think it would be fun if we play again this time with the thought of officially breaking the cycle by going against ourselves who are keeping us in this cycle. Maybe in this route we'd get to understand our party character's motives better and in the end we dont fight lucifer, we fight ourselves as god to try and officially end this cycle and make things just about humans once and for all. I also think it'd be fun if maybe in this route we didn't have aogami, we are just a boy with a demon summoning comp going against the god version of ourselves. By the end we take over and make a world with no gods, so humans can prosper and conflict with eachother with no need of third party entities.

[@IamJerf]

Gameplay was definitely a wild ride especially since I started on Hard Mode (Lahmu and Shiva boss fight will haunt me in my dreams for how intense it was). Although I felt like the fights in the ending became too easy, maybe because I got to lv 99 by the end and just almost one shot Lucifer each run. The story was going well until reaching the end and it's many endings. Knowing that each ending makes you fight Lucifer in his true form feels off, I felt like his true form would have suited better to the true ending route but even the true ending story has its fault. The ending makes you choose to rid of all demons and gods in favor of a world of only humanity existing which contradicts everything that you have done to help the demons you've met throughout the story and missions.

[@gilded_lady]

I'm with you, I enjoyed the dungeons and honestly, I wish they had more of them. Da'at was very samey feeling and I enjoyed the break up

[@koheikyouji]

People call me crazy when I say the tight dungeons with puzzles mixed in were my favourite zones of the game >_> The massive open zones just stressed me out and drained me of my will, something fierce...

[@Luis_A330]

Gameplay distracted me from how flawed the story was. I realized how much could’ve been, so I wish SMT VI story will be even better now that Atlus knows how to use the unreal engine. It’s like making a mediocre cake the first time, and then a better cake the second time once you know what went wrong.

[@ShuckleII]

4:02 I like the scene and the timing you chose for it haha

[@zanychelly]

Have been holding out form a PC release, currently playing thoroug Soul Hackers 2. Really enjoying it. I saw marsh review of SMTV, and considering what he said. The wait may be the best approach for a improved edition in the future.

[@TheSSBBfan666]

think Dazai's turn is to reflect on how faith can turn to zealotry, in turn making him more of a puppet to Abdiel's goals than an equal.

[@BenRiley83]

SMTV’s combat is incredible! So much fun to play! Gameplay wise I love it. I’m almost done with my first play through. I’m over 100 and I’m level 75. I’m doing all the quests and exploring everything!

[@louish5068]

I absolutely agree with everything you said. Shame the narrative was a tad disappointing but I personally still prefer its story to nocturne, which really didnt click with me. I love the unique twists on the alignments despite other narrative shortcomings, neutral feels like dark-neutral which is odd as neutral is always portrayed as good, laws reps feel like what chaos reps become with Dazai intent on 'being stronger' and I absolutely love Fallen Abdiel's design, chaos feels kind of like neutral as it seems like the best ending and the most 'good' but like previous neutral endings has a lack of foresight with not tackling the overarching issue. I seriously love this game though, best game on switch imo

[@Brandt2698]

Great video as always. Looking forward to when I beat SMTV so I can watch the story parts and see what you have to say

[@kennethlatorre5269]

Pretty late, but around the 10 minute mark, SIU made completely incorrect assumption. No essence is a one time deal, not even the strongest ones. They are just extremely rare to get from those types of demons, and I assume you meant those like shiva.

[@muthesquirrel]

The best puzzles in 3D SMT were in SMTIII and DDS. In SMTIII I liked the time puzzle around the Moirai sisters and the visual puzzles where hallways shrank or doors were fake, making use of actually being 3D. In the DDS duology The Solids' base with the red eyed statues, the prison where you have to run from the demon, and the teleporter that put you through the wall so you could use your wits to work out where you'd end up were all great. I feel like that era of puzzles is over though, to have more 'mass appeal'.

[@LuminousArc92]

you said Yuzuru is the biggest disappointment (which he is because he got no attention) but I would say that's more for Miyazu. The trailer makes her seem like a major player, she got a zoom in name card at the start, but then just hangs out in the fairy village. Why couldn't she be a neutral rep? Or her and Tao without trying to be a Nahobino toward the world for humans ending? Having her with the optional Khonzu quest wasn't really enough of anything. I don't hate what they did with Tao exactly but there should have been a way to make her stronger when she fought with you more than just essence fusion. You can't fuse her for obvious reasons but that means you can't fusion boost her stats so she eventually falls off, and can't be used for Lucifer no matter your alignment. They should have kept a sacrifice fusion option or made a special option for her (though that would become easily exploitable.. I dunno). Also did I miss it but she doesn't have a unique Magatsuhi ability right? They should have had you travel with Dazai, Yuzuru, and Tao throughout the game a la SMT4, maybe having one dip out at different points but at least then they're there partaking, though that would mean more voice lines to write and record and more scenes to model. They could all react to Tao dying then and be more shaken toward their alignments. No idea what could be done for Yakumo though since he's so antagonistic throughout so he wouldn't journey with you. The area exploration is awesome until it wasn't. I got to area 4, looked at my map seeing the 3 locations marked and the surrounding abscess' and it just made me go UGH. Also I gave up on the miman for area 3 and 4 because traversal got really convoluted and frustrating to try and find the way to reach where some of them were and I wasn't willing to push through that. They maybe should have had more a mix of free areas and dungeons I do really like that we go back between demon and normal Tokyo (even if it's "not real"). Too bad there isn't really anything to do in normal Tokyo but I appreciated it nonetheless. Demon stock and skill slot expansions shouldn't have been tied to story progress and fighting certain abscess'. It was stupid and frustrating in Persona 5 having the persona roster tied to story progress via the Fool confidant and it's stupid and frustrating in SMT5 drain skills got a heavy nerf, like damn at most you can seemingly only get maybe 50~ mp back which won't help offset the heavy MP costs of skills they way it could in 4

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

This is honestly the only SMT game I've been able to replay countless times now. The customization is insane and the different run challenges you can do feel so rewarding (especially a slime only run). This game truly got the gameplay loop perfected out of all the SMT AND Persona games. The story is not as great as previous entries, but the gameplay alone is going to stand the test of time.

[@TheJR7360]

The lackluster story makes me think there'll be a sequel to this

[@willmgs3903]

Definitely feel an Apocalypse style continuation or alternate game is going to happen.

[@ShionKenobi]

Hopefully Miyazu will be somewhat important.

[@iskoconquers]

@@ShionKenobi I wanna side with her

[@DragonKingX78]

I would be for a Apocalypse style game but would prefer to get SMT5 on PS4 first.

[@jazumo0067]

Omagatoki: Critical would by itself already be amazing if it *only* gave you Critical hits on Physical moves. yes, this would absolutely limit its usage, but it would be more fair. I believe there are 2 things that make it absolutely broken 1) It ignores resistances bar Drain, Null and Repel. Meaning an enemy can be Resistant to Physical moves and you would still get the Critical hit and more Press Turns off of it if you were to attack with a Physical move 2) it gives *Magic Attacks* Critical hits. combine this with the aforementioned ignorance to Resistances and you have the potential for massive damage and the ability to say "fuck you" to the enemy regardless of affinities and resistances Omagatoki: Critical is way to good for how early you get it (AKA at the very beginning of the game)

[@toonboy2041]

Hope I'm getting this game for Christmas

[@comiccams3044]

I will always feel like the characters, and in connection the story, were the weakest part of a game with great gameplay. Yuzuru, I expected more of a Devil Summoner esque experience, someone with experience we might learn from after joining Bethal, so we can stand shoulder to shoulder as allies before Chapter 5s divergence. Dazai, his character didn't feel like he was moving forward, just that he wanted to emulate Abdiel, and then he pulls a random 180 and completely sways the willful angel out of no where and rather quickly Yuzuru's sister, I was so bummed she got ditched at the Fairy Village as early as Chapter 2, ONLY FOR HER TO HAVE A COMPLETELY OPTIONAL SIDE QUEST WITH KHONSU THAT ADDS TO HER CHARACTER (a lil bit) Yakumo, he felt like the only character I cared about and I decided to Destroy the Throne first because of it, and I learned more about his character from NPC Dialogue encounters between them in Ch. 3 and Ch. 5 than any other characters. And Tao, oh lord, why should I even care about her. 'Im the Maiden of Bethal and wanna help you on your path to the throne' then... 'disappears' at the end of Ch. 2 just to show up out of no where in Ch. 5. I care more about the teacher from Nocturne than this joke (She also stops helping you in Yukamo's route, so she just disappears again then too) I swear I cared more about SMT1s Chaos and Law Hero's than these yahoos, and at least the Female Partner actually had some presence, even as a red herring. And we're also supposed to act like we're all friends even though it's established we're not, they only knew the MC as 'the quiet kid' and had friends other than us, so these characters mean nothing to me even when we become war buddies. Compared to Demi-Fiend's friends we steadily lose to the Vortex World or the friends we make in our Fellow Samurai before the Divergence, or just how Law Hero and Chaos Hero in 1 met the MC and grow before the... Ahem, 'Fallout', aheh aheh... These peers of ours might as well not exist and we might as well just be competing for the Throne with their demon counterparts from the get go like we're Akira from Infernal Tokyo... Damn, that actually sounds like a good plot.

[@JeronisLeror]

My take: Timelines with Return of the True Demon are Timelines where the True Demon Ending of Nocturne Hapened around the same time as the True End of 4-A and the Nuetral End of 2. The conception only effected Tokyo, but with the God of Law dead, (see 4-A, 2, and Nocturne,) the world of humanity he made starts to vanish. The Void world of the conception became Da'at.

[@nicktoons125]

Woo! I've been waiting for this video! Know it'd gonna be excellent! 🔥🔥🔥

[@decayingruin]

Now this is the kind of video I like. This isn't all "hurr durr smt v bad"

[@abcbcd7974]

I really wish there was more wind dungeon types of levels, reminds me of strange journey (yes, i lke the long ass winding maps of strange journey)

[@GaeaRage0798]

Now the real question here, which game handled their respective story and characters better? SMTIV Apocalypse or SMTV?

[@ShionKenobi]

IV Apoca, has some tone whimplash. And animu cringe, like Toki lusting on you, or Navarre being used as b*ttmonkey. Overall, it's a bit 2 nekketsu (battle shounen) for a mainline, but would be fine as a spin-off, a la Devil Survivor, for example. V has a lot of good ideas, botched in what seems rushed development and mismanagement. Arc 1 is good, Arc 2 seem to be skipping things (like we never talk to Sahori to care about her, or interact a lot with human Tao to care about her dying. Overall it seems they skipped 3 whole arcs before the last one.

[@krispy_kornflake]

@@ShionKenobi well said

[@matteste]

To me, the game left me... I don't wanna say disappointed as I didn't have much expectations to begin with, but more... underwhelmed. It felt like it just came and went. Nothing about it stood out as amazing or memorable. Just another in the line to pad out the numbers. It just felt so lacking in a cohesive vision, ambition or drive. And what it did do it played either very safe by copying past titles, be it story or gameplay, or tried to appeal to a wider market. I was just left with feelings of complete apathy. And one thing I couldn't help but notice with the game is that just a lot of it feels unfinished or rushed. After that long silence and development time, as well as the sudden change in directors, I cannot help but feel like this games development was anything but smooth. Also, I am noticing just how you never bring up the older pre-Nocturne titles, especially II as it had quite the focus on its story and characters.

[@athorem]

Well said. The SMT V equivalent of "Post-Persona Depression" is" Post-SMT V Apathy"

[@MrSupersmash93]

I havent played it yet but I heard it's a solid game. I'm hoping there is a sequel where it's an alternative version where you play as mizayu and all the demons and gods have nabhino forms.

[@maverick5169]

WARNING, THIS IS PROBABLY A WALL OF TEXT Spoilers ahead This is my "pure" SMT game and oh man, it was a lot to taken in First of all, the gameplay, near perfection. Customization is indeed top notch as you can choose any demon and make it capable of slaying endgame bosses if you invest enough into them, in my case it was the mermaid. There is also a lack of bias towards physical and magic with the protagonist, each offensive path offers pros and cons. While Physical goes through a ""Magikarp"" situation, by taking some time before surpassing the alternative in terms of sheer power, Magic not only is consistent through the whole game but remains a valid alternative even in the endgame since not only it has the best AOE, but if you know the weaknesses (spyglasses2op) you get a free press turn everytime. Charge and Concentrate are also notable points to cover. Unlike the other games, it gives a 1.8 boost to your next attack instead of around 2.6. At first it seems useless but on a deeper look, it's still viable. These skill cost less MP than a powerful spell, which means that you are choosing between doing double damage or saving MP by sacrificing a little fire power. Plus, Concentrate/Charge are still worth before activating the critical skill, which leads to my next point... The "hyper" attacks (I don't remember the correct name or Omotogami whatever skills). I am mixed on these. Yes, critical is the best one and there are ones that are pretty much irrelevant, but some like luck (more exp and treasure), Frikeguel or the poison one are still worth. Now, on the true flaws of the gameplay... Hitboxes! The Nahobino's hitbox is larger than it should be, so when a demon attacks in the overworld you can still be hit even if the demon clearly missed your 3d model. Demons also have incorrect hitboxes so you can catch enemeis that you should have missed Failed fusion. Yes it's an unique feature of the series, no it's not a justification. It only becomes an annoyance since if you want to make a fusion chain, you gotta save after every fusion since the RNG can fuck you over. There is no real sense to this mechanic other than trolling the player. Now I know that there is one game that people hate to hear, but I think the dreaded PeRsOnA fIvE handled this better, by actively telling you when a fusion was going to act weirdly. Would you gamble to get a completely different demon or it's better to save your current party members for something it's guaranteed with a normal fusion? And finally, level scaling. For some reason, stats aren't the only thing that determine your damage but your level as well. It would be fine if it weren't for the absurd spike between Chidoya and the last open area, it was probably done to promote the mitama dlc and it feels dishonest. Now, what about the other factors? Graphics? Aside from the frame drop, everything on screen is exquisite. Ost? I think journalists are deaf because the music in this game is absolutely amazing Miscellanous. The demon negotiation is a highlight. While it is basically a gamble, with no real way of determining which answer you should go for, the dialogue is hilarious. Now, the story... Oh god what a terrible mess. It starts great, the character look interesting if not a little cliché but... Nothing is really done with them! Yuzuru is there just to be "cool husbando exposition boy", Human Tao is memorable only for the free healing in the second area, Goddess Tao is underused and doesn't even try to stand against you if you dissapoint her, Sahori doesn't get enough screentime, why in the hell is Nuwa against her boyfriend killing us and Miyazu stops existing for 70% of the game. The only interesting characters are Ichiro who sadly has the bulk of his development offscreen (we don't see him DOING what leads to his change) and Abdiel, who at first I hated and then became the only well written character. Everyone abandoned her, we personally shattered her vision and forced her to face reality and in the end, she decides to forsake her own ideals and morality for what she believes is the greater good. Oh and Tsukiyomi exists, I think... Ok bro, Naoya and Kaido are better chaos rep than you and your dog Yuzuru The endings are... Interesting but dissapointing. Law is cool, in a way it's kinda similiar to P5R final boss' goal, remove free will but grant eternal peace Base Neutral makes sense, but the alternative Neutral doesn't. In the alternative Neutral we bond with some demons so erasing them is just wrong Chaos... Oh man I wish I could have sided with Lucifer and get an evil ending, or at least something morally questionable. I think DeSu1 spoiled me. In the end, despite some flaws, this is an incredible game that needs to be aknowledged by people. Its gameplay quality needs to be a standard, as it blends exploration and combat in a fullfilling mix. Not too easy but not so brutal even in hard mode, at least for me.

[@TempestDacine]

Appreciate your wall of text lol

[@leatherfasesin7717]

Wow, it's really weird seeing someone with the exact same opinions as me, including on the topics of the endings and the characters. Great job basically compressing my five or six walls of text, written in response to different comments on different channels, into just one, more concise wall of text.

[@MercuryEclipse54]

One aspect of the battle system that I particularly enjoyed was how usable status ailments are. While bosses can often resist most or all ailments, very few actually negate every ailment (even Shiva is susceptible), meaning that a high luck status focused build is viable (though obviously not "optimal") even in hard difficulty. After beating the game and going through every route, going for a status focused build was a fresh way to experience the game, and it had me rethinking what kind of demons I used. Affinity being relegated to miracles also helps to make nahobino builds feel more cohesive and intentional. One minor complaint that I had is that the route specific miracles didn't carry over into new game+ if you started over at level 1, which was disappointing when I was hoping to get a nocturne ng+ type experience where the level restriction on fusion was lifted.

[@petrock4041]

Cool vid mate

[@xdarkangerx7601]

I've only finished one route so far, so I'll just leave my two cents on the buff/debuff changes. I find the "set and forget" buffs more fun, especially since SMTV halved the number of buffs you can apply, but if I had to pick between old and new I'd actually pick SMTV's take. Buffs not being permanent means Dekunda and Dekaja are a not only rarer on bosses (reducing frustrating buff offs), but also makes manipulating the AI into not attacking you is harder. TL;dr new buffs aren't as "fun", but are much better designed.

[@koheikyouji]

Honestly I cant stand the way the buffs work now. They say they last 3 turns like in P3/4/5 but in actuality you only get 2 turns worth before you have to recast. And the MP prices are outrageous. If they were cheaper I wouldnt have as much of a problem, but...as they are I hate them MP costs in this game in general are criminal I think

[@koheikyouji]

@M Gitting gud has nothing to do with this. It is a preference. A demon only being able to use 1 or 2 big spells (like Luster candy costing 150 base mp) before it becomes useless is not something I care for. I dont want to waste multiple skill slots on stuff that boosts my max mp or restores mp when I hit weaknesses. Especially in SMT5 where your demons only have 4-6 slots for most of its runtime anyway. If youre underlevelled in that game then battles can go on for an ungodly number of rounds which only increases the problem. Kindly fuck off with your 'git gud'. Ive beaten every SMT available to me on their hardest modes no issue (apart from SJ Redux's Impossible mode). Its nothing to do with difficulty, but tediousness

[@neotricksterzero143]

The ultimate question: considering that the Series is non-beginner Friendly and all that jazz: is this THE ONE that is Beginner Friendly? Or is the whole Series just gonna be what I fear.

[@tomatoprincess2709]

The difficulty for smt in general is overblown. As long as you think and adapt, you'll do fine. Im stupid, and i managed to beat this game

[@wildharpy6435]

I've been a persona fan for a while, but this is my first mainline smt game. From descriptions of the franchise, i was expecting something darker, but i'm just gonna assume those people were talking about older games. This review was really enlightening, I hand no idea law vs chaos vs neutrality was such a big theme across the franchise. Overall, smt 5 has made me excited to chack out smt games both old and new, any recommendations?

[@hatsuneblacktrousers]

buffs feel more impactful in 5. sukukaja in SJ and 4/4a felt like placebo but in 5 you can get lots of dodges also i did the law ending so i got the crappy final boss and it made me very disappointed

[@mithras9706]

As of now SMTV could be oneof my favorite games in the franchise, mostly due to the gameplay but unfortunately it lacks a lot of the good that the other installments in the series have, the atmosphere, the interesting puzzles (although annoying at times, they tend to be satisfying to complete) but above all the story felt like a Nocturne 2.0 except worse, which is pretty sad considering Nocturne was the mainline game I enjoyed the least.

[@dragoonlance9537]

the gameplay is best, story is far beneath 4. the only character i get attached with is aogami and that's because you're with him all the time

[@BitchChill]

Young man

[@42Tonyallen42]

what are you playing SMT4 on? it doesnt look like 3ds emulation, or is it?

[@NamsCompendium]

I have a modded 3DS with a capture card put into it. Mostly because I like to use original hardware for video footage if I can.

[@NintendanGX]

I was really happy when I played the game for the first few hours and realised it was a marriage between SMT and Xenoblade, two of my favourite things. You have the combat from Apocalypse with more tweaks, aditions and improvements, and the level design of a Xenoblade game (barring 2's awful implementation of Field skills). My only issue with the gameplay is level-scaling, as it kind of defeats the point of having a difficulty option in the first place. I was already willing to explore the game at my own pace, so they didn't need to force players into a small handful of playstyles like this. It's a major flaw in what is otherwise my favourite gameplay experience in the series. SMT V is great, at its pros outweigh its cons, but I hope Atlus don't rest on their loreals. I hope they use V as a basis to make the next game, and improve upon the weaker areas of V, such as the story, pacing, variety and pointless progression-gating systems like level-scaling. more worthwhile sidestories with voice acting, too, like in IV and Apocalypse.

[@Katie-hj5eb]

I played on normal but I ended up not using the magatsumi gauge and instead getting the miracle where it gives hp and mp each turn when full and that helped a lot with mp issues. Activating it mostly for a final bit hit of damage on a boss.

[@ReverofEnola]

I didn't like the Level Scaling in this game. Or the nerfs to Charge/Concentrate though.

[@koheikyouji]

How much were they nerfed? Were they just 2x multipliers this time instead of 2.5x? I ended up not really using them since they seemed like a waste of turns. Mostly stuck with Critical charge/Impaler Animus and the ones that you can cast on an ally (great skills to have on a healer for when they dont need to do anything).

[@RinaShinomiyaVal]

@@koheikyouji they are 1.8

[@ReverofEnola]

@@koheikyouji They are 1.8 now. Plus, the ones that allow your allies to buff other party members only give you a 1.4x buff.

[@koheikyouji]

@@ReverofEnola I noticed that the donum ones were weaker, but...blimey, 1.4x? I preferred it to wasting my attackers turns and MP anyhow. I never did test to see whether they stacked. I saw that both symbols were active on my demon but the damage still seemed rather pathetic.

[@soul_survive]

imo Critical Aura/Critical Zealot or Impaler's Animus build works better than charge/concentrate, I think it makes up for the nerf

[@kevinmurguia706]

IV is better. (personal opinion), but this is the future :) i love smt 5.

[@GLA55MA5TER]

i think i agree with everything you said narrative-wise. I'm still not sure if the minimal cutscenes were an intentional choice to be like nocturne, since the game does constantly reference nocturne. But, on the other hand, the character development and screen time is extremely unbalanced, which was definitely not the case for nocturne. Along with that there's some demons and characters that just get completely side-lined like Khonsu, and Yuzuru's unique demon, who are both on the box art but have basically no importance to the main story, which leads me to believe the story went through some re-writes.

[@Bone1996]

Besides the barebones writing that turned itself to 11 way too fast near the endgame, and the fact that Magatsuhi suffers from the same issue as Smirk right now (a good idea with very broken implementation in the first game it appears in), This game did actually live up to the hype for me, as I just beat IV and played most of Apocalypse in the months leading up to this, so the gameplay and exploration in V being even more polished was soooooo good. I'm really hoping eventually the game comes to PC, which I hope wouldn't be THAT big of a hurdle for Atlus aside from publishing deals, since the game is built in UE4. MonHunRise kinda spoiled me with how a Switch game can look, and even then that game ran at 30 FPS. SMTV with an unlocked FPS, not having said FPS hiccup during certain scenes, and not dealing with muddy texture load-in would be a dream. Also, considering they had to nerf a part of Demon King's Castle because people complained (which I still don't get as even the most confusing area of DKC only took me like 5-10 minutes to figure out), I'm sure they probably didn't bother making Temple of Eternity more reliant on it's time stop puzzles so as to not make another hurdle to the ease of exploration. The lack of puzzles would've honestly been fine tho if they just made the final dungeon longer with more mandatory mini-bosses, instead of making me play hide and seek with big boy lvl. 80+ demons down narrow hallways for 3-4 floors before fighting Metatron.

[@megasocks399]

Beat the game today so I'll finally get to enjoy this upload 🙌