How They Became THE Gender Neutral Pronoun

HELP SUPPORT NAME EXPLAIN ON PATREON: / nameexplain
INSTAGRAM: / nameexplainyt
FACEBOOK GROUP: / 248812236869988
THREADS: www.threads.ne...
BOOK: bit.ly/originof...
MERCH: teespring.com/...
Thank you to all my Patrons for supporting the channel!
SOURCES & FURTHER READING
They On OED: www.oed.com/di...
They On Etymonline: www.etymonline...
A Brief History Of Singular They: www.oed.com/di...
A Brief History Of Gender Neutral Pronouns: www.bbc.co.uk/...
Where Gender-Neutral Pronouns Come From: www.theatlanti...
Tracing The History Of Gender Pronouns: las.illinois.e...
The 600 year History Of The Singular They: www.mentalflos...
CMOS - They: www.chicagoman...

[@NameExplain]

Happy Pride!

[@love_o3oz]

hell yes!!!!!1!1!!

[@Grave_of_the_Sea]

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ Happy Pride!! 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

[@bleep0004]

*THEY instead of the.

[@ベンゲルのカナズミトム]

Nope

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@ベンゲルのカナズミトム SHUT UP, MISERABLE BIGOT WITH NO LIFE! TOUCH GRASS!

[@metsfan1873]

That's not Virginia on your map. That's West Virginia. Virginia is the big thing to West Virginia's southeast.

[@smultronpojke4010]

Singular they is older than singular you, just saying

[@DragonTheOneDZA]

Oh yeah. It's because we had a Tu Vous thing like french One is informal the other is formal... And also plural for some reason

[@quiestinliteris]

​@@DragonTheOneDZA Like, the "royal we" is still a thing... in the increasingly rare situations where relevant. I wonder if formal plurals are intended to make the individual "more" than.

[@C_B_Hubbs]

Thou hast made a good point.

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

​@@C_B_Hubbs Too bad that the old forms have almost been forgotten.

[@briandash1351]

I'm surprised you don't note the predominant historical "singular they" usage: cases where the gender is unknown, as in a far off figure. Using the singular "they" as gender-neutral, suggests that the gender of the individual is unknown to the speaker. There are cases where the hearer is confused because they may otherwise think that the speaker *should* know the referent's ('s) identity. "Wait, didn't you even know ?" It is especially notable that in sentences relating interactions between a single person and a group, listeners rely on the singular/plural distinction to keep the actions of the 2 parties straight.

[@PugalshishOfficial]

"Mankind" came into being at a time when "man" did not mean male, it was only over hundreds of years of speaking that "man" eventually meant a male. It's like how in German there is "mann" and "man". "Mann" means things like husband and man, but "man" means "one" as in "one should not do that".

[@f.u.m.o.5669]

Mann? Literally a TF2 reference

[@Uulfinn]

It's the same with latin hominem. In latin, it meant any human person. In the romance languages, its derivations can mean a human or a male.

[@laser8389]

Partly correct. In English, man = male human is from Germanic roots, man = human comes from Latin.

[@Uulfinn]

@@laser8389 manns, the germanic root of man, meant human. Guman and weraz were germanic roots that meant male. The wer- in werewolf and world means male and is cognate with latin vir, also meant male.

[@richardmiller9883]

Arguing against the grammaticalness of singular they is convincing, until you remember "you".

[@Uulfinn]

I would be in favor of using thou again.

[@im.empimp]

I'm grateful that we've gathered around a gender-neutral pronoun, but I absolutely hate that we don't have distinct singular and plural words for they and you. I personally use you and y'all for the later, but I'm not aware of a such an alternative for singular and plural they.

[@namewithay]

@@Georgian_Spy You already know how to use singular they. "oh no. someone lost their wallet. i hope they find it!" "you got a phone call. oh, what did they say?". just do that.

[@sharonminsuk]

1:35 Wait... your difficulty with "th" is your own individual thing? I have always assumed that it was the regional accent you grew up with. I did not notice you say "day"; but I often notice you pronounce the unvoiced "th" as "f", or the voiced one as "v". (At the end of your videos, I always look forward to that "Fank you.") This is called Th-fronting, and in some English accents, everybody does that. I've always found it rather charming that you do this. Not gonna lie, it's part of what got me hooked on this channel, as I enjoyed listening to your speech! I have thought about suggesting it as a topic for one of your videos!

[@zimsuk]

And the swedish has ‘hen’ as a combination of ‘han’ (he) and ‘hun’ (she) and is used widely as a gender nutural pronoun

[@metallsnubben]

Are you Norwegian/Danish? Cause I think they spell it "hun" but in Swedish it's actually "hon"! It's also interesting that we kinda borrowed "hen" from the Finnish pronoun "hän", where they just straight up don't have gendered pronouns, and it also fits very nicely with "sounding like a pronoun" in Swedish (since y'know, you keep the "h-n" part of the others). What's a bit trickier is what the other forms should be (the "him/her" and "his/hers" equivalents) since it's like "han - honom - hans" and "hon - henne - hennes". I think what's usually used is "hen - henom - hens" but they're not as clearly "right in the middle" as switching out the vowel in the base forms!

[@frenchfriar]

If we can use "you" for both singular and plural, there's no good reason not to use "they" as both singular & plural. It's prrfectly inderstood, and people often default to it without thinking about it. Im all for singular "they".

[@sillybrainz..]

Id argue the singular and plural they is easier to understand with context than the singular and plural you. Ive mixed up the singular and plural you due to literally forgetting the plural you even exists, and I wouldn’t be shocked if countless people have done the same. As you said, tons of people default to the singular they, it would most likely be harder to forget the two theys than the two yous. Im all for the singular they too. Singular they for the win 🔥🔥🔥

[@DrunkenHotei]

_"If people want to use 'they' as a singular pronoun, they're going to do it; regardless of what professional linguists might think on the matter."_ To be clear, the consensus among linguists has been _descriptive_ rather than _prescriptive_ for at least a solid century now. Linguists today are on the vanguard concerning the theory of language as something that is fundamentally "arbitrary" and *_cannot_* be restrained by something like a style guide. The main point of such standardization in any language is not to teach the language (for which I freely admit it can be useful to an extent, particularly when teaching an L2), but rather to reinforce class division and the superiority of those wealthy enough to have time and access to the expensive books, schools, and teachers that were necessary to be aware of them at all. Now that this information is free to all and at the tip of one's fingers through the Internet, trying to cling to style guides as authorities on what language usage is "correct" like before seems downright malicious and quixotic.

[@em_the_bee]

My dude, people have been using language to distinguish between groups for a long time, and they still keep doing it everywhere. A single emoji can make the difference between perceiving you as a goofy weird boomer or as a cool and hip twitter activist or whatever is cool with kids these days. And some people think of you negatively if you use punctuation and proper capitalisation in texting. Like, if you're not a car mechanic and you try to pretend to be one, another mechanic can figure it out just by listening to how you use jargon. There's nothing shocking or revelatory about the fact that groups of rich people do the same thing. It'd be weird if they didn't. And it really doesn't qualify as THE reason behind language education. Humans are pretty good at analysing someone's language, they don't really need to artificially force language changes for that.

[@silveryuno]

Here's an example of Defaut Male Thinking from me. If the don't know an animal/pet gender I tend to go for male.

[@brendatrickler9016]

I liken the singular they to a repurposed antique, like turning an old wooden icebox into a bookcase or audio cabinet. I also notice virtually no objections to both singular you and plural you.

[@paranoidrodent]

As a bilingual Canadian (French/English), "thon" is hilarious. Tuna? Tuna did this. Tuna was upset. (Thon is the French word for tuna).

[@theconqueringram5295]

"Who's 'THEY'?! What the Hell is an Aluminum Falcon?" -Emperor Palpatine

[@quiestinliteris]

Omg what. XD

[@Lord_Skeptic]

They can also be used as a gender neutral pronoun when not referring to a specific person

[@DawnDavidson]

In the early 2000’s, I was introduced to Zie/Zir. I prefer it to singular they, but history has decided on they, so they is what I use for anyone who requests it. If they request something else, I’ll try to use that, though I’ve been around long enough that it can be a challenge. The important point is that I don’t get to dictate someone else’s identity, including their pronouns. Thank you for the video. I appreciate seeing the support for our trans friends and family members during Pride month! (Also, I had speech therapy as well, for “s” which pronounced more as a “th”. Kinda the opposite issue from you! 😂)

[@amilgz]

As a romance language speaker, singular they vs. plural they is as “non-sense” as singular you vs. plural you. I really don't understand how some English speakers can accept singular you and plural you without problem and consider a “gramatical error” the use of singular they. We in Galician have a tougher time in order to use gender-neutral language. We use “elu” for neutral singular pronoun and “elus” for neutral plural pronoun. And we have to use the -e mark because all of our words are either masculine ou feminine. You can say “my friend”, with we have to say “o meu amigo” (masculine), “a minha amiga” (feminine) or “ê minhe amigue” (neutral). So what I mean is: Just use the singular they and stop complaining! And happy pride! 🌈

[@BrayanGonzalez-jj4gv]

You did forget "you all" plural and "you" singular. They have no any alternative for those cases, it can generate ambiguity so problematic even more that not include all genders.

[@BrayanGonzalez-jj4gv]

pd: obviously "you" is singular and plural.

[@jorgelotr3752]

5:34 as far as I'm aware, "man" or "mankind" as gender neutral precedes its use as a masculine, since "men" (humans) coulde be either "weremen" (male) or "women" (female); the "were-" prefix got (mostly) canned for (sexist) reasons.

[@professoryeetus8955]

so does this mean that a female werewolf is actually a wowolf

[@jorgelotr3752]

@@professoryeetus8955 should be. Werewolves are one of those monsters made by mismatching expected terms, like, for example, "cockatrice" (the term for a male bird followed by a female suffix). "Jackalope" may also qualify, being as it is a mixture of "jackrabbit" with "antelope".

[@livinginthenow]

Just FYI, it's pronounced "chaw-ser," not "chawn-ser." There is no "N" in the name Chaucer.

[@tanfanhvac]

I went to speech therapy, too! I also struggled with the “TH” sound. I could do it, but I just didn’t care. I remember my kindergarten teacher showing us how to pronounce “TH” correctly, but I thought it was just too much work. Instead, I pronounced them as “F” and “V”.

[@Werevampiwolf]

(There's actually a little poem about how long "they" had been used as a gender neutral pronoun): Roses are red Violets are blue Singular "they" is older than Singular "you"

[@Leisurenth]

Umm, uhh, ermmm B-B-B-B-BUT I W-WONT USE IT B-BECAUSE MY IDIOTIC BRAIN CAN'T PROCESS THE FACT THAT THE WORLD ISN'T EXACTLY MY SCIENTIFICALLY AND HISTORICALLY DISPROVEN BLACK AND WHITE WORLDVIEW!!!

[@Quartz512_]

*laughs in hungarian*

[@proCaylak]

and turkish

[@Jan_Koopman]

Azt gondolom, hogy ő nem tudná...

[@modmaker7617]

In Polish, we have like two ways to refer to non-binary people. A man called Jacek Dukaj for his book about humans in the future that have grown past using genders created a new grammatical gender "post-gender gender" with the pronoun onu and using U instead of A/E in verbs. Not sure how adjectives work but I'm not non-binary. These are called "dukaizmy" (dukaisms) in Polish. Sadly dukaisms have not been officially approved by the Polish Language Council. Another method I've seen non-binary Poles use is renaming the nijaki (neuter) gender to the neutralny (neutral) gender and calming it for their own. Using ono (it) as their pronoun. The Polish Language Council does officially approve the usage of O instead of A/E in verbs so I guess using the gender that usually refers to plants, animals, things and young human children can be used for non-binary people. The Polish dub of the animated film Nimona uses the neuter forms for the title non-binary character so I presume that the Polish Language Council approves the usage of neuter forms for non-binary people. English: I walked Polish (Masculine): chodziłem Polish (Feminine): chodziłam Polish (Neuter): chodziłom Polish (Dukaism): chodziłum

[@Anti-Taxxer]

What's the Polish word for degenerate?

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@Anti-Taxxer STOP ACTING LIKE ONE AND BEHAVE LIKE NORMAL HUMAN BEING! GET A LIFE!

[@fcsuper]

It was taught to me to use "they" and "them" for singular since the mid-1980's, long before the current discussions about gender.

[@SidheKnight]

I was going to say the same Singular they has been in use since at least the 1990's and nobody had a problem with it until now.

[@Arkelk2010]

I don't think that's so. I learned my grammar in the 1960s and 70s, and all my teachers were pretty firm on "they" being only for plural.

[@BMTroubleU]

Saying 'they are' for an individual is not the same as the new attempt at compelled speech. It would be 'they is'.

[@TylerMarkRichardson]

​@@BMTroubleUYou *_are_* dumb

[@Arkelk2010]

@@BMTroubleU You are probably right, both on the attempt at compelled speech and the "they is". But my ear for the English language is in distress.

[@JeremyWS]

I personally am still angered that the pronoun of ^one^ never caught on as a gender-neutral pronoun. ^One^ works way better than ^they^ as a gender-neutral pronoun. ^One^ is a perfectly good pronoun and people should use it more often. The word ^oneself^ even exists, people. I wish ^one^ was more well known in its usage as a pronoun. Maybe that'll change, soon.

[@burner555]

"What is ^one^ doing?" "What happened to ^one^?" "Do you like ^one^?"

[@charlespentrose7834]

The thing is one uses "one" in a different way than one uses "he", "she", or "they". "One does not simply walk into Morder" is different then "They do not simply walk into Mordor"

[@toomanyopinions8353]

My question is, if it’s been used that way grammatically since the 14th century, how can it not be grammatically correct?

[@EnigmaticLucas]

This isn’t one of them, but there are a few rules that grammarians just made-up in an attempt to make English more like Latin. For example, split-infinitives weren’t considered incorrect by anyone until the 19th century.

[@zimsuk]

As a dane this is interesting, in danish ‘de’ (they) is used for a group and as a formal greeting instead of ‘du’ (you) - thou it is used a lot less now and mostly by the eldery and towards royals

[@MonochromeWench]

odd that people have an issue with singular they when an alternative word didn't historically exist in the language but don't have an issue with singular you when English did have a different word for singular you and lost it (thou). If people want to go back to the way english used to be they had better bring back thorn, eth and the other lost runic letters and spell things the right way undoing the great vowel shift.

[@dania201]

In American English we’ve been using it my whole life, at least in urban areas, to denote a general third-person singlar. As in “Looks like someone forgot their jacket” or “If somebody gets lost, just give them my number.”

[@thelibyanplzcomeback]

I think the singular they came from people quickly scrambling for a word in their minds when they wanted to say things like "why did [this person] do this?" As a result, so many people accidentally say it that I'm surprised it's not grammatically correct at this point. Even 10% of "professional English" originated as essentially slang. The English language is, unintentionally or not, supposed to convey ideas in a quick, practical manner (unlike some languages... cough cough Spanish). If English doesn't have a word for something, people make stuff up, whether accidentally or intentionally.

[@mineland8220]

Seguimos sin pronombres neutros y con lenguaje con genero por palabra Most i can think of for neutralizing is ommiting it all together Pense que estaba ahi (I thought was there) Pense que estaba ahi (I thought there )

[@feurigessiegelstuck233]

As a german. The english langsamer is very fortunate to have a term like "they" which is already indiginous to the language as a gender neutral option. Thats actually one of the few things I'm envious about.

[@FinnManusia]

In my country, our language uses pronoun that doesn’t have gender specific which is, "dia". In our English however, we used "it" a lot. "He/She" stays as gender specific pronouns while "They" sticks as plural and sometime use when you are not how many the people is, "It" other than inanimate objects, we used for animals too when we don't know the gender like, "That cat is sleeping. It sleeps on a chair." So it surprised to me why you called a teddy bear as "He". Also, we use "It" to babies too as we don't know the gender of the baby. "The baby is crawling. It crawls to it's mother." As for that, we should just use "It" to refer to them. A simple solution, right? Also, you should add that use of, "He" also refers to God. I don't really know why is it like that. Maybe you can explain why we call God as "He" plus it must be uses with capital "H" even in the middle of a sentence.

[@CatherineKimport]

Here’s an interesting wrinkle I’ve noticed: In those odd moments where I need to clarify that I’m using the plural they and not the singular they, I’ll say “they all” in a similar manner to “you all.” Which makes me wonder if at some point English will evolve to a point where “th’all” will be a commonly understood pronoun like “y’all”

[@nebulan]

The only people i hear complaining about it these days are the ones who just don't like that not everyone fits their worldview

[@im.empimp]

I'm grateful that we've gathered around a gender-neutral pronoun, but I absolutely hate that we don't have distinct singular and plural words for both "they" and "you'. I personally use you and y'all for the later, but I'm not aware of a such an alternative for singular and plural they. It's not a worldview complaint, but a language clarity complaint.

[@nebulan]

@@im.empimp that's fair. Our language can definitely use improvement!

[@HeyLetsTalkAboutIt]

As a non-binary person who uses they/them pronouns, I love the explanations here. Thank you for making this video Patrick. Happy pride!!

[@magpie_one]

My native language Finnish is bit funny in that we don't have any gendered pronouns at all, everyone is "hän". Yet we still call everyone "se" which translates to 'it' in english. In Finnish 'it' is not seen as objectifying or derogatory, just informal. Using "hän" in everyday speech would sound quite out of place or even sarcastic. But in contrast, pets and animals might be called "hän" as a sign of endearment, when formally animals should be called "se".

[@nerdyoutube7847]

I still much prefer “thon.” I don’t think it makes me stupid if I find it needlessly confusing to think of a group when I hear “they” since that’s how I’ve been conditioned my whole life. Why would you go that route when “thon” or other words like it are so much simpler to implement?

[@ShawnRavenfire]

It's crazy to me that the same people who are sticklers for "they" always being plural are the same ones who insist that "you" should be used for either singular or plural, and "youse" is bad grammar.

[@me0101001000]

Prescriptivists are a plague upon linguistics.

[@quiestinliteris]

Pluralizing the singular you is hilarious to me. XD Full circle. Youse is excellent, tho for regional reasons I prefer y'all.

[@vincent412l7]

Thou is the singular form of you.

[@smittoria]

It's because they don't actually know/care about language, they just wanna spread their political rantings

[@storyspren]

There's a couple of lines in this video along the lines of "whether linguists like it or not" and I just wanna say, linguists like it. Descriptivism is core to linguistics nowadays, and linguists are why we even know how old singular they is (and I'd like to point out that the oldest use is the oldest *written* use that has survived long enough to be noticed by linguists, and there may be older written uses that just didn't survive, and there very likely are older spoken uses, but spoken language is annoyingly ephemeral so we can't know how much older or how frequent it was at the time).

[@quiestinliteris]

Yep, when few people were literate, and most of the literate people were of particular social classes, written language represented a pretty narrow sample of spoken language. (It also doesn't even represent their spoken language accurately, because people do not write exactly as they speak - take it from someone who does transcriptions and once wrote out an entire thirty-minute interview response that was all one sentence.) Add in that old-but-not-ancient writing is almost all located on perishable materials, and the further back you go, the smaller the sample size gets. It's entirely likely that many of the words and turns of phrase we attribute to Shakespeare's "invention" were actually in common use already but were not written down or didn't survive the centuries.

[@Anti-Taxxer]

Linguists do not like it. Maybe woke, brainwashed linguists do, but everyone else can see past this nonsense.

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@Anti-Taxxer YES THEY DO! GET A LIFE FOR ACTING LIKE UNHINGED LOSER!

[@jumpydashgd4699]

@@Anti-Taxxer I get that you're the officially designated spokesperson for all linguists and all but as someone with a decent knowledge of linguistics this is just false. Linguist don't exist to dictate how language ought to be and delete words they dislike for political reasons. They exist to describe how language functions and evolves and don't try to prevent said change for the sake of upholding an archaic social structure. That's not to mention the fact that singular they has been used for hundreds of years. So no, linguists don't dislike singular they, just because a fact hurts your worldview doesn't make it false. Facts don't care about your feelings darling.

[@Anti-Taxxer]

@@jumpydashgd4699 Keep believing your woke bullshit, the rest of us will keep thinking you’re a moron.

[@rosiefay7283]

5:38 Generic "he" doesn't depend on "default male thinking". If someone used generic "he", they might defend it similarly to how you defend singular "they": that "he" has two meanings, one male, one generic.

[@burner555]

Then why is male generic and female not🤔🤔🤔? There's no explanation outside of default male thinking.

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

​@@burner555 Male forms are often shorter, especially in German. A teacher is either a 'Lehrer' (m) or a 'Lehrerin' (f) which would translate as 'teacheress'. Instead of writing 'Leher:innen' when teachers in general are meant, I'd rather use 'Leheriche' if someone explicitly means a group of male teachers.

[@sherricoffman]

ThankYou4Sharing!!!! ❤ 🕊 MuchLove

[@GailGurman]

It's true that the singular they is old, but the way it is being used these days is different from how it was used even a decade ago. The singular they used to be use as a general pronoun for an unknown person ("someone left their jacket behind"), but now it's used for known individuals ("Syd is my friend; they are a nice person"). I have nothing against the second type of use, but pretending they are the same thing is ingenuous. By the way, another pronoun system I like is Spivak (of which, I knew the LambdaMOO version): e, em, eir, eirs, emself.

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

If people have been using a word a certain way for 700 years, how is it still wrong?

[@revinhatol]

What about "IT" (singular)?

[@sharonminsuk]

There are really two different kinds of singular they. I don't think it's correct to say that the modern "gender neutral" usage has been around for a long time. What has been around for centuries is the use of "they" to refer to somebody whose gender isn't known to the speaker, because it's referring to a generic or hypothetical person ("when a person is kind to you, you should be kind to *_them_* in return"), or because it's a slot that might be filled by different people ("I'm not sure who pranked me, but when I catch *_them,_* oh are *_they_* gonna pay!") This usage definitely goes all the way back. And I'm sure this existing old feature of the language is what gave "they" a leg up in its newer usage as a gender-neutral pronoun for a known individual ("My pronouns are they/them") over other alternative constructions. But this is definitely an expansion of the "singular-they" concept to a new use. ("I love listening to Patrick; they are so interesting.") I'm pretty sure that's why the latter use still doesn't quite roll off the tongue quite as easily as the older usage, and why it's still a bit confusing sometimes, at least for me. It's getting easier, though.

[@Thebald1]

Well I was born in the 1960s and I'm not going to adjust to some stupid nonsense.. It's Him or Her.. is it round 2015 or so when my daughter went to school I had papers to fill out before school started.. When I got to the part that says how do you identify? .. I checked female.. Then it wanted me to check which race.... We're white and so checked Asian.. Well the school called me a few days later saying they were a little confused about the paperwork on where I checked Asian.. She said clearly your daughter is not Asian, and I said clearly she's not a male but you have an area for me to check that and or she's not sure what she is.... Crazy days for sure.

[@Uulfinn]

They is derived from old norse þeir, the masculine plural pronoun. Also it's quite prescriptivist to say that others are supposed to use singular they. People who want to use it should use it, people who don't want to shouldn't have to.

[@johnlabus7359]

As someone who grew up learning to write "he" as the default, it's very difficult for my brain to process "they" as singular. Now clearly I realize how patronizing it is to use "he" as a default, and that isn't to say that I don't understand why someone prefers a gender neutral pronoun. I just wish that our language had a separate gender neutral pronoun rather than sharing it with one that is widely used as plural. Just like using "he" makes people think of men, using "they" makes many of us think of more than one person.

[@MiroHeinonen]

I would definitely use "ze" instead of "they" for non-binary people. Because "ze" can be used with "is", while "they" always requires "are". However, singular "they" (e.g. in word "themself") is okay when a person in question can be of any gender or when it is not necessary to specify the gender of the person. But "ze" in cases where a person explicitly does not identify as either a man or a woman. In a nutshell: They = gender-neutral (any gender, non-specified), which includes he/him, she/her and ze/zir. Ze = non-binary.

[@eclat4641]

1:46 Sometimes i get stuck on V ( serious.) so i try saying B . So video - bidio , Otherwise v -Vvvvvvvvvvv.

[@amadeosendiulo2137]

1:42 A lot of non-native English speakers gets you :D

[@thesun___]

Personally, when talking about a person, I sometimes use 'e which is a contraction for both he and she. I don't personally use the singular they.

[@KitKitsuneVixen]

5:55 yeah that's always a pet peeve of mine lol. i've never called things "he" if i don't think they are men, so it just seems weird when people use it that way.

[@xetanth87]

I always find using 'they' for singular a bit confusing because I'm not sure when to use plural and when to use singular. I think it would have made more sense if there was a gender neutral singular like it but for people. I think 'thon' was considered centuries ago. I guess it's the same thing with 'you', but that's much more widely known. Also about 'you': I think it's funny that originally 'thou' was singular, 'you' was plural and they made 'you' also singular as a form of respect, but in a lot of books, movies and games you can see things like 'thy bidding' which is in a way less polite than 'your bidding'. Though I guess this comes from religious texts and prayers like 'Our Father' where they write 'Thy will be done'

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

HAVE EVER THOUGHT LOOKING AT CONTEXT!? START DOING IT!

[@TwilightLimits-sk7kn]

Singular "They" sounds alright when used in specific ways but the majority of the time it just gets confusing, like the way its spoken between people. Plural "They" sounds better when spoken between people

[@DJKLProductions]

I have no problem with using "they" for individuals, but then it should follow the grammar rules of the third person singular, because it is still about ONE person. In essence, "they" should be used for people of unknown gender or non-binary people. Especially with the latter, I find this appropriate in a figurative sense (as if they were standing between persons of unambiguous gender), but they are still individuals; also from the point of view that these persons want to be treated equally. Therefore, in my opinion, the grammar rules of the third person singular should logically be applied: they is/does/goes/etc. and themself. It's almost the same with the singular "you": there's the "yourself". I realise that this hurts one’s own linguistic sensibilities, but one can get used to it.

[@Jan_Koopman]

Bring back thon!

[@thedinobros1218]

I use ‘it’ rather than a singular they and it makes way more sense than ‘they’

[@Coccinelf]

Thon is tuna in French 😂

[@mingfanzhang4600]

😊😊😊😊😊

[@mingfanzhang8927]

😊

[@mingfanzhang4600]

@@mingfanzhang8927 #Islam #KFC

[@mingfanzhang8927]

@@mingfanzhang4600 #Islam #KFC

[@langreeves6419]

I wouldn't have known you had a problem pronouncing "th" if you hadn't said something about it.

[@DragonTheOneDZA]

My language for a fictional kingdom (I won't give you context) has ihu (male) ehu (female) and hu (nonbinary) for he/she/(sin)they

[@jbejaran]

I think singular they got some legitimacy from the fact that saying "he or she", while still understood to mean a single person, kind of sounds like two people. So you could see sentences like "He or she will have to park their car on the street." maintains a certain sense to it. The other reason some of those coinages never took off is that seemed handed down from above rather than organically emerging from everyday usage. Most common non-technical language comes about that way.

[@NBK1122]

When I was in (US Navy) basic training, recruits did not address themselves as I. We said, "This recruit," as in "This recruit had to do 25 pushups." Maybe non binary people could use "this person" for themselves and "this/that person" when someone is speaking about them. Unless "person" is wrong, too.

[@BMTroubleU]

Language can change over long periods of time. But being compelled (aka forced) to use these words in new contexts is what people dont like.

[@the_Kutonarch]

"Mankind" WAS Gender-Neutral! "Man" didn't mean male, it meant HUMAN. The word for male human was "WERman" which we still use for "WEREwolf"(the original concept for werewolves were all male). "WOMAN" literally means WIFE + MAN, and it's not referring to a MALE whose also happens to be a wife, but a HUMAN, literally WIFE + HUMAN. So words like "Handyman, Chairman, Policeman" should originally be considered Gender-Neutral, but if that's not socially acceptable, then they should be RESPECTFULLY updated using their original intended meaning. So instead of Handyman/"Handywoman", (after all that's not even Gender-Neutral,) it should, in fact, be "Handyhuman." Before you dismiss this as, "Why would you need to specify that they're 'human'?" 🙄 The original speakers DID NEED TO specify Human because they lived in a society that believed that non-human entities genuinely existed, such as Fae, Giants, Ghosts, Elves, Trolls, Werewolves and other kinds of "people". It's with the diminished belief in pervasive supernatural entities that the reinforcing cultural emphasis on one's Humanness was lost. Instead more "tangible" considerations were made for things like gender, which ultimately leads us to where we are today. After all, how many times do you read the word "human" in general fiction compared to science fiction, scifi contains pervasive themes of non-human forms of people, requiring the frequent use of "human", much like the original speakers of English. So if you're using "HUMANKIND" as the Gender-Neutral term then you should start adding "-human" in your Gender-Neutral vocabulary from now on.

[@the_Kutonarch]

@user-in8qh3zf9d No it doesn't, it comes from Wifman, wif=wife, man=human.

[@the_Kutonarch]

@user-in8qh3zf9d Yeah, you really did type a lot of bollocks.

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

@user-in8qh3zf9dit does not

[@robinreneemusic]

Thanks so much for covering this topic. It was a pleasant surprise. Happy Pride! 🎉 💖💜💙 💛🤍💜🖤🌈

[@NameExplain]

Happy pride and thanks for the superchat!

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

Why not construct a pronoun of an abbreviation like "this/that individual" → 'thi', gen. 'thi's', dat./acc. 'thim'? If you dislike an individual, you take it from "that unhinged individual" → 'thui', gen. 'thuis', dat./acc. 'thuim'.

[@DoroNijimaru]

you keep saying "they are" when treating "they" as a word. you wouldn't say "they are a word", you'd say "they is a word". if 'they' isn't being used as a plural pronoun, the following verb doesn't get conjugated as if it were.

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

nah. you still say "you are" even when you is singular

[@DoroNijimaru]

@@greatestaxolotl4933 when "you" is treated as a singular pronoun, yes. not when "you" is treated as a word. you wouldn't say "you are a word", you'd say "you is a word". "the word 'you' IS a pronoun", Not "the word 'you' ARE a pronoun".

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

@@DoroNijimaru ohhh i didn't understand what u were saying lol

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

Ironically, the word 'woman' includes 'man'.

[@EalaFreond]

Woman is a contraction of 'wife man'.

[@burner555]

​@@EalaFreond nope, it's an evolution of the "wiffmann"

[@AminalCreacher]

i vibe with co

[@MrAllmightyCornholioz]

Anti-Wokists be like: OMG TRIGGERED!

[@Louetar]

Thank you! happy pride! - a they/them :)

[@Anti-Taxxer]

Degenerate.

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@Anti-Taxxer SAY ONE IRONICALLY BY SELF-PROJECTING! GET A LIFE AND STOP HARASSING OTHERS!

[@Anti-Taxxer]

@@klemenhudobreznik3421 Imagine thinking that basic human biology is “harassment.” That’s how delusional you people are.

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@Anti-Taxxer YES YOU ARE HARRASSING THEM, YOU MISERABLE BIGOT! GET A LIFE OR BE HARRASED BACK!

[@Leisurenth]

​@@Anti-Taxxerbasic human biology? what about advanced human biology? 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency 17β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase lll deficiency 45,X/46,XY mosaicism Aarskog-Scott syndrome Ablepharon macrostomia syndrome Androgen deficiency Androgen insensitivity syndrome Aphallia Aromatase deficiency Aromatase excess syndrome Barber-Say syndrome Bifid penis Campomelic dysplasia Clitoromegaly Clitorophallus Cloacal exstrophy Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome Congenital adrenal hyperplasia Congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency Congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 11β-hydroxylase deficiency Congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 17α-hydroxylase deficiency Congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency Cryptorchidism Cytochrome b5 deficiency Cytochrome P450 oxidoreductase deficiency Denys-Drash syndrome Diphallia Estrogen insensitivity syndrome Gonadal dysgenesis Hyperandrogenism Hyperestrogenism Hypergonadism Hypergonadotropic hypergonadism Hypoestrogenism Hypogonadism Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism Hypospadias Isolated 17,20-lyase deficiency Kallmann syndrome Klinefelter syndrome Leydig cell hypoplasia Lipoid congenital adrenal hyperplasia Micropenis Mild androgen insensitivity syndrome Müllerian agenesis Opitz G/BBB syndrome Ovotesticular syndrome Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome Penoscrotal transposition Persistent Müllerian duct syndrome Poland syndrome Polyorchidism Prader-Willi syndrome Precocious puberty Progestin-induced virilization Pseudohermaphroditism Ring chromosome 18 SCARF syndrome Seaver-Cassidy syndrome SERKAL syndrome Turner syndrome Uterus didelphys WNT4 deficiency XX male syndrome XXXXY syndrome XXXY syndrome XXYY syndrome XY gonadal dysgenesis And also the fact that gender isn't the same as sex and is something you are born with, according to scientific research! And also how there were thousands of cultures with third genders! Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that's too much for your bigoted brain to process, so sorry!

[@mawer9900]

FOLEY IS GOD

[@dogvom]

It's not _Chauncer._ It's _Chaucer._ It rhymes with "saucer". If you can't wrap your brain around the word *_he_* as being both gender-specific and gender-neutral, maybe you can understand why it's hard for many people to wrap their brains around *_they_* as being both plural and singular.

[@batya7]

"They" is very confusing. Sorry. I don't agree to use it happily

[@theemraldwolf5874]

But you use it everyday

[@EalaFreond]

@@theemraldwolf5874 Not everyone, including me

[@Mia32862]

Thanks for making this video despite the hate you"ll get for it. As a trans person, small things like this really make my day a lot better!

[@998576999]

As a trans person, please, go to rehab

[@ruckusbeblack]

ITS MAAAAAM 👰🏻‍♂️

[@veggiet2009]

As an NB masc person, I agree

[@hyun-shik7327]

I think it's interesting that the singular use of they hasn't been distinguished as singular by inflections. Like we still use "they are" for one person instead of "they is" which still sounds grammatically incorrect.

[@EnigmaticLucas]

It’s for the same reason that we use “you are” for one person instead of “you art”

[@stapuft]

Because "they" is plural NOT singular.

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@stapuft NOPE, IT IS BOTH! GET A LIFE!

[@stapuft]

Its not though. I have one unlike you. Why so salty? Is it because reality refuses to conform to your idiocy?

[@angeldude101]

​@@stapuft By that logic, wilt thou correct thy usage of the plural "you" to refer to a single person? Wilt thou attempt to argue with _royalty_ when they use "we" for only themself?

[@ShawnRavenfire]

Another one I remember gaining some popularity years ago was "s/he," which when spoken, was usually pronounced something like "sah-hee."

[@dansattah]

"He'er" reminds me of the relatively recent "Gendersternchen" (little gender star) in German. For instance: der Bürger - the (male/non-specific) citizen die Bürgerin - the female citizen die Bürger*in - the (non-specific) citizen

[@schlaumayer3754]

I've also heard somewhere that some people use "Sier" as a gender neutral pronoun in German

[@PurelyCoincidental]

There's something similar in French, too. I recently received an email addressed to "Cher•e•s collègues, cher•e•s étudiant•e•s". I find it interesting that German decided to use "die" for Bürger*in, thanks for sharing. I used to study German seriously but had to put it aside for a while. I really miss it.

[@dansattah]

@@PurelyCoincidental Trust me, despite being a German native speaker, this article was just a guess of mine. Just based on the rule that article and suffix ought to go together.

[@matercan5649]

Americans seeing how Germans call people "Bürger": "I wanna go to germany"

[@dansattah]

@@matercan5649 Well, "Burg" just means fortress, so the transition from "feudal subject" to "royal subject" to "republican citizen" was rather smooth.

[@mingfanzhang8927]

❤😊❤😊❤😊❤

[@mingfanzhang4600]

😊

[@electra424]

happy pride everyone!!!

[@imalright2837]

Alternative title: “How a lack of hardships left western civilization with too much time on their hands”

[@dansattah]

Any particular reason why you need to downplay discrimination against gender non-conforming people?

[@Dontdoit_]

Too bad that’s not how language evolves especially when these thing existed for centuries if not millennia

[@burner555]

Nice wompussy

[@mossballus]

The fact that that's what you took away from this video tells me that YOU'RE the one that hasn't experienced many hardships.

[@stapuft]

You mean "discrimination".

[@ernestcline2868]

I'm surprised you left off the Spivak pronouns, which are the plural 3rd person pronouns with the initial th omitted, and sometimes having "e" or "E" replacing "ey" as the 3rd person animate subject pronoun. Of all the proposed alternatives to singular they/them, it's the one I personally liked best, but with singular they/them finally reaching acceptance, it's clear what English will be using for the foreseeable future as its 3rd person singular animate pronouns.

[@deldarel]

In Dutch we have two words for 'that', one that's common gender 'die', used for de-words and one that's for neuter, 'dat', used for het-words. 'Die' doesn't have the dehumanising stigma that 'it' has so it's become our gender neutral pronoun here. It's very similar to thon in meaning, but similarly to they it's a less common but correct use that found new meaning in this old use.

[@nurdle]

technically "it" has a gender: inanimate gender. from what I know at least, gender linguistically is different from what we typically think when we think gender. Other than that killer video!

[@DrunkenMalkavian]

Indeed. Especially if you consider other languages, which feature grammatical gender, rather than natural gender, like English does. Inanimate objects are gendered, regardless of their physical characteristics. In at least some of these languages, this carries over to names - for example, in Polish, all female names end in an -a.

[@GregoryHunter-rm4ei]

Cool video.

[@IsaacMyers1]

I don’t go by they. They is a genderless pronoun, I am not myself genderless, and therefore I shouldn’t be forced to have my gender erased. Seeing as english has gendered pronouns, why is having your pronouns actually contain your gender a luxury only binary gendered people deserve? At the same time it also feels like they is only neutral in terms of the masculine-feminine continuum, seeing as I my gender is nowhere amongst said continuum I shouldn’t be forced to use pronouns that claim it does (I have always felt like this specific point of my argument is an incredibly nebulous and hard to define properly, especially since it seems many people disagree with me here). I go by thon personally, and whilst I know it was created to be genderless pronoun, most people don’t know that; and thon not being the languages agreed upon genderless pronoun, means I have full freedom to impart my gender upon the pronoun. I wouldn’t be stealing the pronoun from others by allowing it to( or forcing it to) gain a gendering inline with the gender I am. Or in simpler terms: either we remove gendered pronouns from english entirely (something we know wont happen), or other people need to get over the fact I deserve equal rights as people who fit the binary.

[@erdood3235]

No need to apologize for not being able the say the hard th sound. Most people can't make that sound anyway

[@cupfulofeathers]

Agreed! Your speech is very clear. I’ve had some speech therapy too so I understand that self consciousness, though!

[@modmaker7617]

Most people in Northern England don't say TH but F instead. Making deaf and death pronounced identitically

[@erdood3235]

@@modmaker7617 there are 3 th sounds. The f like one, in thor and death. A v like one in together. And a d like one, in the and they.

[@MeteoFur]

Wow these comments are sad. Why can't people be respectful and mind their business with what people want to be called.

[@janslavik5284]

Words can't express how much I hate this stupid thing, purely from language clarity mind you. English as it is doesn't exactly excel in being the most descriptive language you can imagine (there is already the singular/plural *you* problem), but the recent re-introduction of singular they is simply perplexing to me. Imagine people all over the world spending in some cases more than a decade of their young life learning the "universal" language and then suddenly "they are hungry" means "a singular person is hungry". I'm sorry but this has to be the most brain-dead development in linguistics ever.

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

YET EXPERTS OF LINGUSTIC DEFEND THIS USAGE BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE WORDS HAVE USAGE MAINLY, NOT MEANING! GET A LIFE!

[@Quartz512_]

It doesn't take a decade to learn english. It takes like 6-8 years.

[@janslavik5284]

@@Quartz512_ In some countries it's mandatory to learn English since the 2nd or 3rd grade all the way to the end of highschool, which at least in my country means 11-12 years.

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@janslavik5284 STILL DOESNT MEAN SINGULAR THEY IS STUPID USAGE OF WORD! MAYBE LEARN TO READ THE CONTEXT OF CONVERSATION!

[@schlaumayer3754]

At the current moment I see 12 comment: 3 right-wing hate comments and 2 bots...

[@Dontdoit_]

You see more when you hit newest but the fact they cry about their hate being hidden and then that’s what shows is funny

[@eja1258]

? How do you know they are "right-wing"?

[@stapuft]

It would be more accurate to say "it" as "them" is plural.

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

FOR MOST PEOPLE THAT IS DEHUMANIZING! GET A LIFE!

[@MeteoFur]

Did you not watch the goddamn video?

[@WakandaleezaRazz]

@@MeteoFurREEEEEEE TRIGGERED 👰🏻‍♂️

[@klemenhudobreznik3421]

@@WakandaleezaRazz SAY IRONICALLY THE SNOWFLAKE! GET A LIFE!

[@WakandaleezaRazz]

@@klemenhudobreznik3421Says the one with a dozen comments on this video triggered 👰🏻‍♂️

[@ベンゲルのカナズミトム]

By ideology

[@Sparx632]

Even if there was such a thing as LGBT ideology they has been used as a gender neutral singular pronoun for centuries.

[@Dontdoit_]

No by evolution of language

[@angeldude101]

Ah yes, the ideology pushed by _William Shakespeare._ We can't have that. The ideology pushed in the 20th century by people whining that English wasn't Latin is clearly a much more reasonable position. /s

[@werlynakadera1944]

I am a they and I approve this video

[@Dontdoit_]

Bro is the ultimate gender neutral pronoun

[@burner555]

inb4 "I kissed bro very smoochly, bro is a woman."

[@angeldude101]

There is nothing wrong with using "they" to refer to a single person, much like how there's nothing wrong with using "you" or "we" to refer to a single person either, though some might not appreciate your ego if you did the latter. However, that doesn't change the fact that all 3 are _grammatically_ plural, though that only really matters for verb conjugations. I *am* Thou *art* He/She/It *is* We/You/They *are* _We would appreciate thee for accepting that pronouns can change beyond their original number._

[@burner555]

Except people with DID, why would someone refer to themself as "we"

[@angeldude101]

@@burner555 Royal we is the most well known, but there are other contexts, like in various forms of formal writing such as scientific papers.

[@burner555]

@@angeldude101 singular we

[@oz25]

Whist I try to avoid the singular they myself, I don't really mind its use where necessary/appropriate/for people who identify as gender neutral/non binary. My issue is when its use is intermittent. Example "I'm meeting my girlfriend in town. They work in McDonalds" I'm like "Who works in McDonalds?" And 'they' are like "I just said, my girlfriend, she works in McDonald's". If 'they' had said. "I'm meeting my partner. They work in McDonald's" then fine. Hope this makes sense. Xxx

[@IsaacMyers1]

well, ok. some people use multiple pronouns. and some of those people prefer you actually use all of their pronouns. so, maybe said girlfriend is a demigirl, or whatever other thing, who asks people to use both she and they in said flip flop manner. so maybe it’s weird to police how others use pronouns. HOWEVER, once someone knows which pronouns you use, and you don’t use singular they for yourself, that person shouldn’t be using it for you. I know there’s a significant proportion of transgender people who find the use of singular they about them by someone who knows their pronouns is a huge no-no. In the minds of these people, and justifiably so, they fought so hard to be the gender they are and to use the pronouns they use, so it feels like erasure of said hard work to use a term that removes that gender from them. This is also not to mention the rising problem of transphobes using they/them for binary trans people, and maybe neopronoun users if we’re lucky to even be acknowledged, so they can claim “I’m not *mis*gendering you” whilst actively intending to not have to correctly gender people.

[@oz25]

@@IsaacMyers1 To be clear, I have no problem using a person's choice of pronouns. The issue is, occasionally ,only about following who the conversation is actually about. If in doubt, use the person's name where possible. X

[@eclat4641]

I : they /them 😊

[@cranklabexplosion-labcentr8245]

We are all “its” regardless of gender