What was Phase Four . . . about?

[@BeamSplashX]

i like to imagine that every universe's mysterio lies about knowing there's a multiverse, but each universe's mysterio happens to choose the correct number for the earth they're on

[@cloudsombrero]

except for 616 comic mysterio who ended up in the ultimate verse

[@jamesmoriarty4439]

But it's not the correct number! 616 is the comics universe, the MCU is 199999

[@aizensouske6440]

@@jamesmoriarty4439 tbh it is the comics decided that number themselves the mcu is just now saying the actual number

[@permixtg4322]

@@jamesmoriarty4439 If I remember correctly, they actually changed it so that the MCU takes place in a completely separate multiverse.

[@TaiWind]

would the TVA show up if he says the wrong number?

[@darrylldoucette6895]

You just did the marvel writers and producers a huge favour here. They’re all like, “Oh, yeah, that’s totally what we were going for. Ahem”

[@MenaceEDM]

Yeah this video was sort of like a big cope, I like how he tried to look for some positive but the mass majority really hates this phase. Really bad with a lot of uhhh… the political and the copy and paste writing/comedy it always uses

[@rainydeestar]

@@MenaceEDM tbh, i dont think politics in marvel is a bad concept. it should just be done well, which it wasnt

[@lukaswithakay]

@@rainydeestarPolitics are always the topic of conversation in superhero films. The problem is that the people writing phase 4 have an issue analyzing what plagues modern society. In fact, many of the phase 4 movies and shows embraced the problems of modern society instead of condemning them.

[@littleoldmanboy]

@@rainydeestarYou gotta do better Senator!

[@mcm4rr]

this is something my english teacher in high school used to stress so much and it is the fact of making your points clear for the audience. the audience should never have to go out of their way to understand what you are trying say. if they are, clearly you have no idea what you are trying to say, or you just did a bad job at conveying it.

[@patrickderdul3218]

Somebody FINALLY talked about how weird it is to make the Salem witch trials about actual mischievous witches!

[@StarryEyed0590]

Yeah, but it kinda bothered me that he implied it was about the education level of the women - women reading was extremely common and encouraged in Puritan Massachusetts. As a descendant of a Salem "witch," it seems to have been more about being an unpleasant neighbor with the misfortune to have a bunch of children die of disease (and potentially spread that disease to other people as well)

[@galacticbambi949]

It's moreso weirder because one of the first "witches" who sort of catapulted the "validity" of the salem witch trials was a Barbadian servant of a frenchman who forced her to lie :(. Now a whole religion? is sort of glorified off the back of a servant who was just trying to survive :(, the story of it all is so depressing. I hope marvel takes into account retconning origins of super heroes and rewriting lore that pertains to some real context :) Marvel is a super big franchise, it has a lot of power to show some children crumbs of non fiction like with Ms.Marvels MCU origins.

[@ZeeDrakon]

I dont think it's that weird at all. And focusing on the salem with trials, claiming it' was about women being able to read, and then not adding relevant context about the actual historical witch trials is a bit silly. And makes the complaint ring hollow. The witch trials were a phenomenon pretty much all over europe and european-settled north america, and it wasnt a gendered phenomenon either. In salem, a fourth of the convicted were men, globally a significant portion were men, and in some areas men made up the majority of victims. However modern discourse is for some reason very eager to present the witch trials as mainly misogynistic, which sadly nando is feeding into here aswell...

[@galacticbambi949]

@@ZeeDrakon I’m talking about the Salem Witch Trials of 1692? With Tituba. Is there a Salem Witch Trial before all that, genuinely asking.

[@ZeeDrakon]

@@galacticbambi949 the Salem witch trials didn't exist in a vacuum. They didn't need to be "given validity" by an individual confession because they were part of a then significantly over a century old phenomenon.

[@bluesdjben]

Sharon Carter is the one person I can think of who I really want to be a Skrull because I think her Power Broker villain turn just did not make sense. If she was replaced by a Skrull during the Snap, it suddenly totally makes sense.

[@wisethirtyseven]

THIS!

[@danmohr100]

The number of likes here is telling

[@murk4552]

@@danmohr100 of you not knowing comic book arcs

[@blarblablarblar]

I think if there's some new reveal down the line, it's justifiable. It doesn't have to be a Skrull reveal, she's ex-SHIELD and she's done undercover work before. It's feasible that she's up to something more than just "grr I'm mad and now I'm bad"

[@madnessarcade7447]

Nah what’s more likely is that all that power broker stuff is a bluff it’s all an act Strategically planned to draw out the true power broker aka maybe the leader Under secret direct orders from Nick fury

[@Max_The_Flower]

can't believe you didn't even mention eating food at a table as one of phase four's main themes.

[@jeffreydenenberg7101]

idk if thats really fair, eating food at a table was literally the last thing that happened in phase 1 and was very impactful there so it's not really unique to phase 4

[@Max_The_Flower]

@@jeffreydenenberg7101 you don’t understand, each movie and tv show in phase four had at least one scene where the characters sit at a table and eat food.

[@davidjohnson6087]

it’s the first shawarma-type phase of the mcu

[@smoovenorris]

The action figure portion reminds me of Logan not liking the comics that Laura had and loved, saying that “maybe a quarter of it happened and not like this” signifying that someone wrote and drew fabricated stories to make themselves feel better about the disappearance of mutants (also him saying some of it happened while looking at him save a friend from falling in the comic he’s wearing the accurate suit, maybe he wore the suit before he retired)

[@NandovMovies]

Yeah that moment is a great version of this trope. It feels like after enough years, your superhero universe's logical endgame is they all become pop culture figures in universe.

[@srstriker6420]

@@NandovMovies speaking of Deadpool 3 have you heard of Madcap?

[@jacklaytham2779]

48:29 48:34 48:34

[@ryzekiv7147]

I interpreted the witch trial thing as there were _some_ witches but the rest was still complete paranoia. Also how would Wenwu have helped during the battle in New York when he was in Hong Kong and how would he have helped the battle of Wakanda if I kinda was closed after the rest of the world? Same with Endgame? Wenwu probably did his best to police his own corner of the world.

[@suzygirl1843]

@@NandovMovies 15:30 Shang Chi was live action Dragonball Z, lets not lie. That's Trunks and Bulla vs their daddy, Vegeta. Running down dragons was ana homage to Goku.

[@comicalcosmonaut959]

The retcon phase you’ve discussed made think how the MCU really does work like comics; kingdoms, deities, organizations randomly pop outta nowhere and we’re expected to believe they’ve existed for a loooong time

[@johnymustacio]

your mistake is thinking of is as one stable universe with a past present a d future that persists. but imagine if there were people who could rewrite the whole thing on a whim... like gods, and meta characgers, and magicians, and stan lee. if someone with that level of power decides sword was there the whole time... then it was. kind of like kang the plot device.

[@mattwayne9128]

@@johnymustacio So, their mistake was not adhering to your weird, ridiculous headcanon? Someone like you should be studied, imo.

[@johnymustacio]

@@mattwayne9128 i gues you can just ignore my argument by calling it my head canon.

[@Im.myfuture]

@@johnymustacio I honestly like to think that after the death of He Who Remains (the writer of the timeline), history as been fluid and trying to accommodate all the changes being made from other timelines and universes onto the main 616 (NOT) timeline.

[@johnymustacio]

@@Im.myfuture why? how? and why earth 616 specifically?

[@bravovince3070]

Two months ago Jonathan Majors said he just had a chat with Kang Dynasty director Destin Cretton. When asked what can he say about it, he responded with "We are dealing with myths. What is a Kang? What is a movie? What is a MCU movie? What does that mean, what does that look like? Those are the questions we are asking." The fact that he said Kang Dynasty will explore "what is a MCU" movie really makes me think you are onto something here.

[@Vor567tez]

Wow that will be cool and perfect. Bcs Kang and his variants are only people who r aware of MCU as a whole they know the start and the end .

[@Sniffles69]

We all know what a phase 5 movie is going to be. More strong wahmen and destruction of beloved male characters. It's beyond predictable at this point 😂

[@DaloWrld]

@@Sniffles69so far so true

[@cursed9019]

This comment has unfortunately not aged well lol

[@spinosaurusstriker]

​@@cursed9019 nah its a perfect representation of a mcu shill, a beaten spuse defending her husband.

[@redgiant7747]

Phase 4 was about legacy, for sure. Shang chi and his father’s rings, the Hawkeyes, black widow’s family being introduced, Falcon becoming Captain America, the thors, Spider-Man meeting two versions of himself and fighting their villains, she hulk ignoring her cousin’s advice and learning from it to be a hero like him and a lawyer like her

[@TheeWandaStan]

that and ✨trauma✨

[@timo_543]

Prince T'challa, Dr Strange and America

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

And new black panther

[@WheeledHamster]

Female empowerment phase, there's a another of females here.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@WheeledHamster And that's bad?

[@slartimus]

Something I find myself continually coming back to as far as the retcons, is specifically that Eternals tells us that life-bearing planets are created by Celestials as eggs for incubating new Celestials... But cut back to GotGv2, where Ego calls himself a Celestial, says he believed himself alone, and embarks on his whole Expansion plan by which he seeded a bit of himself on a bunch of life-bearing planets with the intent of turning them all into extensions of himself. He even gets to start doing some of it, with a big glowing blob of Ego-ness erupting out from behind the Dairy Queen and also on Xandar! What would've happened if he'd fully succeeded, as far as Arishem and the Eternals and all that? That seems like something they should've maybe gotten a bit involved with, if they'd always existed all that time.

[@Aguni20]

The "rebuild season " idea is exactly what I thought this phase would be the whole time. I love the way you explained it.

[@samwill7259]

The more we go on the more the MCU is gonna become like the comics. You don't need to watch or be "caught up" on everything because it'll become less and less feasible to binge all of them at once Just roll with what's interesting to you, if the movies are well made than anything you missed that's important will be explained just like any other backstory in a movie.

[@oscarkamala]

exactly

[@jamesb9894]

Bingo

[@bananaking664]

yeah i feel like after a big movie like secret wars people will go back and see stuff they missed cause they thought it wasn’t interesting

[@Polymathically]

This is the correct approach. I haven't watched a movie in a theater in over a decade, and I don't have Disney+. If I need a recap on something, there are plenty of resources online.

[@KevinJohnson-cv2no]

I don't think it's gunna become like the comics bc the financials literally wouldn't support it lol, cinema production budgets are an entirely different beast from comic creation. Another phase of low performance like this, and Marvel movies are put to an end period (as a brand, we'll still get comic book movies by one-off directors such as The Batman, ofc)

[@WesMontrose]

I saw Druig's stopping but not stopping the conquistadors as his dereliction of duty from the role of being an Eternal. He decided mankind was too destructive and no amount of intervening would stop their atrocities against one another so he carved out a mini civilization that he could manage and basically retired there with it. He was done with worldly matters and decided to spend all his time and energy on the people he knew he could save. He didn't save a civilization, but he saved a town and grew that

[@LotkaVolterra]

53:36 was an absolutely perfect analogy for phase 4. After three-peating with its first few phases, this dynasty is rebuilding and developing its draft picks. And just like in sports, some of the lifelong fans are looking at these new faces and wondering if they can reach the same heights.

[@VideoClubRandom]

The worst retcon is from Eternals... Now I watch Iron Man 1 and the whole time I think, at this moment... THE EARTH IS AN EGG!!

[@professorlogos5459]

I’m a philosophy professor. Metaphysics is the study of things insofar a they exist and asks questions like following: “why is there something rather than nothing?” “What is causality?” Etc. What you have been talking about is not a “metaphysical crisis.” What you have been talking about is an “existential crisis.” Existentialism asks questions like “what is the meaning of life?” And “what is it like to live a human life?”

[@ThePonderer]

I’ve always argued that Phase 4’s big shared theme was “Self-Identity” Almost every story is about someone grappling with what it is that makes them *themselves,* and how that’s informed by their background, their biology, their “destiny,” or perspective/philosophy.

[@milkiassamuel780]

Funny enough @ScreenCrush suggested the exact same interconnected theme to the majority of Phase 4's projects in a very recent video there's similar to Nando's video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/apzYe4yqnqydbrs I very much agree that Phase 4 is all about self-reflection and exploring the surrounding theme of identity, despite whether or not you think it was executed effectively. Phase 4 has undoubtedly been mostly a mixed bag for everyone, including myself, but I think the different tonal/directorial visions displayed as well as the new stories and characters introduced have really dug deep into this concept that most of us never really realised, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the next theme of Phase 5 and the Multiverse Saga will look like.

[@dexterthielhelm4342]

The thing is, isn’t that what most compelling stories are about? Any of the phases themes could be identity or self. It isn’t specific to phase 4.

[@zayg6626]

Literally most superhero movies are about self identity

[@LastLighthouse]

Hot take: Eternals explored this the best

[@NybergCarl]

@@LastLighthouse I thought Eternals was one of the better Phase 4 movies.

[@CyrusMajin]

I always thought the underlying theme of phase 4 was Legacies. It feels like almost every major character is worrying about their legacy, trying to live up to a legacy they've been given, dealing with how the legacy (or lack there of) left in the world by another effects them, or making a legacy they are now a part of, either by happenstance or design, their own.

[@caseybeats7306]

Phase 4 felt like a "consequence/reality" phase. A lot of the shows specifically show a new side of the MCU where you see how "the real world" is handling heroes and stuff.

[@johnymustacio]

invoking the "real world" in the mcu? really?

[@Im.myfuture]

@@johnymustacio Is that REALLY some new concept in this universe?

[@hellishthehellrellish5672]

@@Im.myfuture the problem is the lack of it

[@PillarofGarbage]

Great minds think alike :D Kidding aside, fantastic video as always, and huge thanks for that shoutout! I probably wouldn't be making videos at all if it weren't for your channel - I had my first successful video blow up thanks to the One Villainous Scene playlist - so I was beaming from ear to ear at 55:05!

[@einplaysbad]

congrats my guy

[@BenjaminRodriguezReyes]

So happy to see this shout out too, you're one of my favorite creators on KZbin today and seeing your channel grow has been wonderful. You always have something insightful to say and I appreciate your honest, no nonsense approach to discussing political aspects of media.

[@einplaysbad]

I lied no congrats for PoG hahaahha

[@zeoberlerb6371]

W Pillar W Nando

[@einplaysbad]

@@zeoberlerb6371 L PoG

[@dexterthielhelm4342]

My favorite films from phase 4 were the standalone projects, like Shang chi or moon knight. They’re focused on one main character throughout and tells their story. As fun as the rest of phase 4 was, not many of the projects stuck with me.

[@frogurtcremebrulee5252]

Didn’t watch the whole vid yet, but imo Phase 4 was a few things: Loss and Legacy, Moving Past the Snap, and Fresh Faces. Love you Nando.

[@medalgear654]

yeah moving past the snap was barley what the phase for was about. It was more "Oh the blip happened" and that's it.

[@allendrake6960]

@@medalgear654 How? The entire premise behind why WandaVision happened had to do with The Snap happening, Wanda's grief manifesting in harmful ways, and Vision's remains being cast aside like a piece of equipment. The antagonists of Falcon and Winter Soldier are entirely linked to the chaos the world would be thrown in not only after The Snap but the return of everyone 5 years later. Granted, Loki wasn't about The Snap itself, but arguably about multiversal events of similar scale, collectively. That's at least 3 shows out of 6, and Multiverse of Madness definitely had the after effects of The Snap as a continuous story element. I'd say describing that as one of 3 major things the Phase was about is entirely accurate.

[@KingCanuck2814]

Phase 4 was about legacy, handing off titles, gripping with the past, and expanding the world. Feels pretty obvious to me.

[@colorweaver5070]

Same I never really understood people who said they didn't know what phase 4 was about

[@somerandolad]

It just wasn't executed very well.

[@WillTheGreatest]

Yeah it's all about transitioning. Unfortunately much like actual change, it isn't always clean and smooth

[@NybergCarl]

Someone said Phase 4 centers around grief & loss.

[@papingosstudios161]

Heard that before

[@TSAirica]

A musical about the attack on NY is beyond weird, it’s like making a musical about 9/11

[@NandovMovies]

Right? And barely a decade later

[@aidenp6001]

EXACTLY!!!

[@TheGlull]

Gorr is definintly an A tier dad. Didn't do great things after his daugther died, but when presented to give her a second chance at life he did.

[@DarthGardens]

Gorr responded to what fans said about Thanos. If you have the power to create things, why would you destroy instead? Gorr doesn't use the power to destroy the world as revenge, he just gets his daughter back

[@jinxie712]

The theme was Legacy. Everything was about passing the torch. [edit]32:27 heh, then we get to him talking about this…

[@nugget3687]

Legacy and identity

[@DivergentAndDragons]

The theme was the friends we made along the way?

[@davidpalay361]

@@DivergentAndDragonsno one’s ever really gone

[@ChrisKat]

deep.

[@gwengrasso1887]

THANK YOU for the part about the Salem witches! Seeing it in movies so much always felt weird to me

[@thepanelbiter9915]

35:21 I would say the most significant retcon in Sam & Bucky was all the super soldier serum stuff. Bradley’s whole existence.

[@glowstickspinalfluid]

i like to call it the wattpad phase because this is definitely disney just letting writers do way more of whatever they want because they're only doing it for the money now

[@kurtreznor]

"everything but Fan-four-stic is in play." Lol, that was truly fantastic.

[@Lazypackmule]

The Mandarin was shown to be real ever since that one DVD short with Trevor in prison, which I am 100% certain you know about because you've talked about it before

[@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu]

I mean before the movie it was uncertain if it was canon, the guy who kidnapped Trevor I don't think even appeared in the movie

[@capybara2671]

Also watchers showed up in gotg 2.

[@Britdarg]

The retcon part of the video genuinely started giving me a headache. The MCU no longer feels like a connected universe, but rather self contained stories that reference similar events

[@rjk537]

similar to star wars then?

[@suto5704]

Super enjoyable video. Nice job nando and I agree this phase does feel like they're finding out what might and might not work in later phases while also establishing new elements and playing on the grief from older phases

[@haroldnecmann7040]

The Nandolorian

[@mariokarter13]

The action figure phase is the most thematically relevant because it foreshadows how the franchise would continue to devolve into self-insert fanfiction.

[@ruthielalastor2209]

Giving the Shang-Chi dad B Tier after everything he put his kids through as children is very generous. 😆

[@Mystic-Midnight]

I mean he gave up immortality for his wife and kids until his wife died

[@227someguy]

@@Mystic-Midnight and then he massively degraded. He killed someone in front of his son, forced said kid to become an assassin, punched him into a lake, and neglected his daughter because she reminded him of his wife.

[@darknessknows1235]

@@227someguy Shang chi wanted to be an assassin tho, it's part of his story that he felt the same as his dad up until he actually killed the guy. Not that it makes it right, but it wasn't exactly forced.

[@227someguy]

@@darknessknows1235 except Shang-Chi berates his dad for making him an assassin, which the latter doesn’t deny.

[@darknessknows1235]

@@227someguy because it's still something that he shouldn't have done, but Shang chi notably wanted revenge too, and both Father/son take out the flaws they see in themselves on the other

[@chrisphilpott8427]

If Phase 4 had a theme, I think it was probably something to do with the heroes' relationship with the world, probably best demonstrated by Hawkeye, TFATWS, Ms Marvel, She Hulk and Black Panther 2, with nods in Thor 4 and Guardians Hoiliday special. But my read was that Phase 4 was intended to expand the MCU from one franchise to many franchises; it feels more like Marvel Comics to me now, where the reader knows everything is happening in the same universe, but not every book is about the same theme or subject, or told in the same style or genre, but which can cross over when the story demands it.

[@kjbeast677]

Really wish Marvel gave us a “The Leftovers” style Disney+ series in Phase 4 that took place during the 5 year time skip of the snap, and showed us how not only the remaining heroes are dealing with things, but regular civilians as well. I’d watch a multiple hour long series about that any day over a show about She-Hulk or Echo, or whatever random character they’re trying to make a project centered around

[@ripleysghost]

First off - EXCELLENT take on Phase 4; I felt like my sheer frustration and anger was somewhat brought down a notch thanks to this perspective. I think the "rebuilding year/sports team" analogy is very apt and warranted - I think any reasonable comic fan would assume this (I think you mentioned in a previous vid/some comment mentioned that the only reasonable thing to do after a blockbuster event like Endgame is to focus on smaller stories to lower the scale). Going back to the sports analogy - I don't think people are mad at Disney for being in a rebuilding year, they're mad because Disney is the Mets. They have a TON of money to spend, and are a professional baseball team. Therefore you assume that at the very least they focus on the fundamentals to a professional degree, and have enough capital to make it to the playoffs every year. tl;dr In movie terms - people are frustrated that despite the amount of money Disney has access to, they should have competent CGI and writing as a bare minimum. We don't care if they are testing different characters to see what sticks - that's perfectly fine. Losing the fundamentals that made MCU great is a cardinal sin.

[@mikefromco]

What’s tough for me is that usually during building years you dont make your team a loveless cash grab which so many of the projects clearly have been. We deserve better and I want to see it in phase five.

[@deusdragonex]

I was watching/listening to this video while I was trying to organize some thoughts about a writing project I want to take on. But the thoughts were scrambled and chaotic. Then you got to the World Anvil ad, and this is the first ad that came at just the right time in my life and was an instant click for me. Well done.

[@Nomalos]

The theme was "Boy It really got away from them at the end".

[@sillyskater2]

Nando I really enjoy when you put out a nearly hour long video. 😊

[@Gigasius]

Legacy. The new generation. Also Marvel trying hundred different things to see what sticks. The Phase One 2.0 if you will. I personally liked it. Very comic booky in a sense of having so many completely different runs of stories and letting people pick and choose which to follow. But that's just me.

[@TheeWandaStan]

yup.

[@LucyWest370]

Letting people pick and choose what to follow would be fine if it werent basically expected to have to watch everything in order to understand whatever comes next

[@melissaharris3389]

@@LucyWest370 I think the only installment that this was an actual issue with was Multiverse if Madness. Watching Wandavision before the film was a must but you didn't *have* to watch anything besides the previous films in their respective 'runs' to be cought up. All the other shows and films are introductions of new characters.

[@LucyWest370]

@@melissaharris3389 they are introductions to new characters, but think about it like this- imagine watching Iron Man 3 before Avengers. Its not required viewing, but you’re still going to be missing a lot of information. Once the MCU builds up enough its going to have more of these moments in phase 5 forwards, and not knowing who any of the characters are is definitely going to start being more and more of a hinderance the longer it goes on.

[@racool911]

@@melissaharris3389 Did you HAVE to watch Wandavision? There's this powerful witch who lost her children and now she wants to go to a different dimension. Kinda all you need to know to not be confused

[@invisiblefan2387]

I’m not going to pretend that phase 4 was some meticulously crafted master plan that was perfectly executed. It had some high highs but really low lows. And it’s to be expected after their big conclusion in Endgame and all the chaos IRL. So there were bound to be some missteps and growing pain when trying to introduce new characters and concepts. But themes of loss, grief, legacy, and expansion of the multiverse are present throughout. Hopefully now that phase 4 is over we can learn from our mistakes and successes and move forward together.

[@aozf05]

Yeah, not well executed but way more cohesive than everything that came before.

[@dojomojo5085]

@@aozf05 mf what?

[@rtsiii5404]

But, they don’t acknowledge large portions of their mistakes….they don’t even think many of them ARE mistakes. They clearly don’t like feedback that doesn’t tell them how wonderful they are either, so, I’m not sure I see anything changing without some serious internal upheaval that even Disney’s dire financial situation hasn’t yet elicited. I mean, if you liked Phase 4….well, if you liked Phase 4, I’m sure you’ll get much more of it.

[@invisiblefan2387]

@@rtsiii5404: I won’t deny that.

[@aozf05]

@@rtsiii5404 The first three phases had tons of mistakes that they didn't learn from, they doubled down and people still heaped praises on them so phase 4 hasn't been any different in that regard. So many ways the movies could have been better but they didn't want to take those risks and now that they are, y'all want them to just keep doing more of the same old stuff.

[@Horltum]

I genuinely can't tell if this is serious, or the most straight faced joke video that Nando's ever done, but either way I'm here for it.

[@jbo4547]

What? Did you watch the video? He makes clear points throughout that make sense.

[@MrBazBake]

Needs T'Chaka as an S tier dad from that What If episode... started his own space program just to find T'challa

[@XionZeros]

I guess I'm alone in thinking that Phase 4's theme was navigating through psychological trauma and self-discovery/determining one's identity among the legacies of the heroes' accolades before them.

[@RedheadDevito]

Phase 4 is a segue phase. It’s a transition in which foundational characters are replaced with newer, younger counterparts. It’s a fulcrum.

[@drewbu]

Nando is the glue, the gel, the spin-master we need to justify the patchiness of the MCU.

[@caitlin3810]

Really interesting video; my one point is that Hulk’s son is likely so old because he’s been living on Sakaar, which Ragnarok establishes has weird time dilation - it’s how Loki stayed there for three weeks iirc despite being separated from Thor for like ten minutes from his perspective and potentially how the setting goes from 2017 to 2018 depending on how long you think Asgard was on the spaceship for

[@StyxicalMarzelian]

I think the theme was legacy and this was sort of a building phase with phase 1, with fury assembling the avengers, who knows maybe Kant will assemble the time avengers or something

[@EricChoiniere]

Famous philosopher Immanuel Kant? ^^

[@StyxicalMarzelian]

Ay I meant kang

[@PseudONym-kz3fr]

To me it kinda always felt like “living in grief/ aftermath”

[@Ironwalley89]

Thay message is basically repeated through the projects, (beginning to end) Wandavision then hugely in Black panther wakanda forever.

[@GrannyT23]

The “tva using infinity stones as paperweights” thing left a real bitter taste in my mouth, it trivialised ten years of storytelling felt like the final form of undercutting tension and not letting emotional moments be series and carry weight. I didn’t even realise how much retconning happened in this phase. The only thing I’ve actually seen is Wakanda Forever and the more I learn about the other projects, the less I want to watch them. And it’s such a shame bc I’ve loved marvel since I was 13, I hate that it’s become something I don’t even want to watch

[@kidwhoscrolls]

Nando admitted that this phase doesn’t have a solid chain holding the movies together, but it has a few semi transparent strings delaying the inevitable.

[@joereddish1938]

Nando! Cast the Justice League. I trust your casting more than anyone. I loved the FF and X-Men casting. Casting the Justice League would be so great

[@Billy193]

I don’t particularly like this idea of people thinking each phase needs to be about something. I don’t think the other phases were about stuff particularly either, not obviously at least. I think after the Thanos events, fans have become too concerned that each individual movie must lead up to something in the grand scheme. I think it’s perfectly fine for a movie to be self contained and just be a fun joy ride.

[@jackroberts2704]

Right, the first three phases weren't each about something specific, more generally about the infinity stones.

[@StarryEyed0590]

I think the reason that people are scrambling for a central theme or premise to tie the phase together is because this Phase doesn't build to anything. Each previous phase was capped by a big Avengers movie that tied together most, even if not all, of the movies from that phase. With nothing like that, and even the movies (No Way Home/MoM) that heavily featured crossovers occurring early to mid in the phase, people want to know the point. Nando can compare it to a season of sports, but it's really more like a season of television. If something like Doctor Who had no series/season finale and the last episode of a run was just a normal, self-contained one, people would be going back to try to figure out what was going on.

[@HS-mn6jc]

@@StarryEyed0590 the problem with this line of thinking is that the original 3 phases did this because the universe wasn’t very big yet. Each phase needed a bigger movie to tie it all together because we were using them as stepping stones to get to where we are now. The MCU is massive nowadays, and trying to tie EVERYTHING together into one movie at the end of each phase would be a nightmare. Plus, remember not every phase-ending movie encompassed absolutely everything from that phase. Age of Ultron had absolutely nothing to do with Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant-Man, for example (and I know technically Ant-Man came out after Ultron but the argument still applies).

[@GabesEdtiz]

@@HS-mn6jcEven if Age of Ultron wasn’t connected to those movies it still brought the main players back together and directly lead into the main reason why the Avengers were fractured for a majority of Phase Three: the Accords. The first three phases also did a decent job at expanding the universe in interesting ways while contracting it back together at the end of the Phase in order to make it feel all the more important. Phase Four has just been expansion, expansions and expansion with no real reason as to why it’s doing it.

[@AsgardMedic]

People reacted this phase as they did to Antman and the Wasp. They expected something big between Avengers 3 and 4, and then felt let down in the end as we got a little friendly movie that put the final figure on the board.

[@kbeasley447]

There were a lot of mirrors and reflections in Phase 4, along with people that drowned (Strange's sister, Marc's brother, Queen Ramonda). Also, lots of Ultron references (What If, Ultron helmet in Bruce's hideout, Ultron bots in Earth 838, the AI takeover mention in Wakanda Forever) Wouldn't be surprised if Ultron shows up from another universe in Secret Wars...

[@lilam7851]

I almost feel like endgame should been further down the line and more focus was put on things like SHIELD being hydra, Civil War, multiverse(with a laser focus plot), etc... was drawn out more with more plot points being planted earlier on.

[@CJCreates1]

i love how optimistic you always are. thank you.

[@pheonexia]

Though the MCU loves to ignore Agents of SHIELD, it actually introduced the Inhumans and their super-secret sanctuary back in 2015. Didn’t have the royal family tho, so I guess they’re probably just gonna keep pretending AoS doesn’t exist.

[@jamesb9894]

The dad tier list is every thing I needed

[@moxyblackfiddler]

A shared universe doesn't require a 10 yr arc that results in a big team up. You can still have that and stand-alone projects. There's no need for post credits scene every movie leading into the next. There is no need to reference everything that happened in another film. Why can't people understand this?

[@krwhite02]

Falcon and Winter Soldier definitely had identity issues. Sam figuring who he should be as a brother and as a hero post Endgame. Bucky figuring out If he truly is redeemable and if he can be a hero.

[@JohnWittle]

It's kind of hilarious that I can't tell if this is serious or more in line with your Dark Knight Kite Man video

[@narkfly]

Watching the whole video now, but off the cuff - the theme of Phase 4 is, "you, our paying customer who cared about the characters and motivations that brought us this far... you are wrong. We're going to show you how wrong you are. Watch how little characters actually matter to us."

[@RandomizationShow]

Yes, unfortunately

[@onion4042]

I feel like the theme is "disney can't cope with the fact dad died"

[@jonasquinn7977]

To be fair on the Deviants thing I feel like it’s pretty believable that the Celestials would just shrug and be satisfied that the Eternals solve that problem and not bother fixing the root issue

[@tevenpowell8023]

I think the obvious answer is to just, ya know, send the Eternals to do the extinction part. Missing such an obvious solution really makes the all powerful celestial gods look really dumb

[@jonasquinn7977]

@@tevenpowell8023 But then you have have them wipe out all the Deviants in the planet they were already sent to and contend with them probably not wanting to commit genocide

[@tevenpowell8023]

@@jonasquinn7977 I mean, there's like 6 ways that the celestials' plan is complete nonsense. Like you said, the Eternals are against genocide. But why would the celestials program their genocide robots to be against genocide in the first place? Because now they have to lie to them and constantly wipe their memories instead of, ya know, programming them to be okay with it?

[@sheldonlarmond6217]

Bruh the "dear Kevin Feige" is one of the absolute best running jokes on KZbin rn

[@Wico90YT]

I definitely think Legacy/Destiny is the best way to describe it. Not everything fits perfectly, but most of them do.

[@MeltedToast84]

I've just watched like 10 minutes of this man ranking MCU dads and I've never been more entertained.

[@MarvinMartinez2001]

Screencrush had great video explaining how phase 4 is about identity crisis and understanding who we are

[@TheScarletSlayer]

12:00 okay let me stop you right there, I feel like you are trying to come up with reasons to justify what currently is rather than explaining the reality. Unless you can look me in the eyes and say with was always the plan the entire time and it's all been connected as part of a full proof plan 0_0

[@caseyhart4999]

Come to think of it Tchallas son had to have been conceived between BP1 and infinity war because 5 years before BP2 tchalla was dust

[@kamichan127]

Love this so far ! Just pausing to say phase four is about interdicting new characters and teams, grief for the remaining avengers and that feeling of " where do we go from here ?" "Why do I even fight ?" Once kang fully appears that will be their " why " :)

[@RecoveryHacker]

Love the longer format. Kevin's going to call you one of these days!

[@Kaznil46]

Only thing I say that I think was incorrect in this video was in the "wrist" bit. Dr Strange's watch didn't break during the car crash. It is the one thing he kept after spending all his money. All he had left when he went to find Kamar Taj. The thugs took the watch, but then dropped it on the ground when running away. that broke it. Leaving Strange with nothing left to lose.

[@williamthechild4703]

Phase 4 was definitely about grief and coming to terms with loss, be it a person or identity

[@aobasuzukaze1032]

Phase 4 is about growing pains to me. I feel like this universe is still reeling after the snap and a lot of them are snapshots of the aftermath of the snap. Yeah COVID really held back this phase into just bunch of movies but again it's a reaction towards the tragedy whether it's in the MCU or in the real world. Hopefully phase 5 it will be more streamlined.

[@jaybee27D]

technically, every single property from phase 4 took place in 2023, the same year that everyone was brought back from the snap. Marvel made a conscious effort to not have too much media directly cause the next piece of media. they roughly all took place at the same time as each other (so as to catch up to the five year timeskip they tried). so yeah, society here is definitely still reeling from the snap

[@AuspexAstarte]

I think it works that wenwu didnt know about thanos because the whole thing happened really fast and he doesnt seem to be omnipotent, just with a lot of networking and martial power

[@WillTheGreatest]

Nando made me realize a weird thing There is an eternal named Thena There is also confirmed a Greek pantheon which includes Athena...so....are there just 2? And which one came first?

[@tomemyscoobies]

This has been a decades-long problem for The Eternals in the comics, too. Jack Kirby's original comic was set in a weird "is it in Marvel canon/is it not in Marvel canon" grey area. In Kirby's eyes each Eternal acted as the real inspiration for myths across the globe, however the pantheons and gods (Athena, Hephaestus, Mercury etc) Kirby drew from already existed in Marvel Comics canon. So now they all tentatively coexist and nobody explicitly points out the paradox. The popular theory is that the Eternals co-opted the names of deities to do stuff while withholding their true identities.

[@trianglemoebius]

I know a guy named Alex. I know another guy named Alexander. Doesn't necessarily mean these two people are connected, even if they both look kind of alike (white dudes with dark, shaggy hair and a perchance for stubble).

[@Yoshimitsu4prez]

Lol when he said “action figure phase” I had not remembered at all that there were multiple literal action figure scenes

[@neilkabookie2776]

This is probably something you should include in your morning wake up routine because it is quite the stretch.

[@SilvLocs]

Bruh no one was like why did we even do Phase 1, we were resetting, laying a new foundation for a new story how is that not obvious lol

[@Baraborn]

Yes. It is the Recon phase. Kevin Explained in an interview that this is what it feels like when your reality is being twisted changed and invaded by other universes. They have impact... in their own timeline, but now the timelines are collapsing. And that's the problem that Strange talked about. Collapsing timelines feels like recon whip lash.

[@BonJoviBeatlesLedZep]

Can't wait to see the James Gunn Superman pitch you accidentally post!

[@katherinealvarez9216]

Not sure, but I'm pretty confident that they're going to do Young Avengers. 24:56 yeah, we got more dad's. Also, more parents in general. Then again, this is becoming a thing so I'm surprised that no one over at DC is letting Bruce start adopting again.

[@mediocrecommentators]

i’m not sure if he’s being serious or not and if i should take any of this seriously and i love it

[@cyberexile3507]

phase four was about money. duh

[@biddierepellent]

I can't believe I just watched a superhero movie dad tier list and was fully invested in the final result.

[@blissvii]

Wait Phase Four is over?

[@jerrychacko2661]

Wakanda forever was the last project for Phase 4 so yes

[@Wico90YT]

Yeah. 4-6 are short.

[@mattchew6426]

Phases 1-3 were a great meal. Phase 4 has been "setting the table" for the next meal. Now we can eat...

[@SatchitBhogle]

I will be very disappointed if the X-Men turn out to have been there the whole time. I'm cool with the Eternals or Wen Wu or Black Widow's family staying out of things, but the X-Men couldn't possibly do that. I really thought that they would introduce mutants by folding two universes together (not necessarily the Fox X-Men universe) in NWH (most likely) or WandaVision or MoM, but not having done that, it could still happen in Kang Dynasty or even Quantumania.

[@racool911]

The way I would do it, I would have something in Secret Wars cause the mutant gene to activate causing The Mutant Saga. This event could have something to do with Kamala.

[@Ironwalley89]

Although....he is technically Bohner, he has mentioned when he's bored he just runs around I believe, also they introduced the mutant town & Logans bar too in ftws. Could be hiding out if logan is cannon, they were being wiped out 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@xrstevenson]

9:25 and the next ten seconds is what I pray doesn't happen to DC. Regardless of Snyder's writing direction, he didn't make Superman a pop-culture Iconic. Some of these characters you cannot turn into pop-culture Iconics just for the sake of telling the jokes that WE as the viewers are supposed to be telling.

[@dtinagliastudios]

To me, phase 4 was all about reflecting on the past and the things this universe has gone through.

[@Charlotte-bc3pm]

Phase Four was the side missions you do after the main campaign, just for 100% game completion. Not needed, but its something to do 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@dexterthielhelm4342]

Phase 4 had some high highs and some low lows, but overall it was just too much and too unfocused. Even if there is a theme or arc, it isn’t as compelling as the previous 3 phases, such as creating the avengers, introducing the infinity stones, or the destruction and reassembling of the avengers. So what was the purpose of this phase?

[@evanburke9365]

Nardo has to be working with Feige because only he could green-light this much product placement in a single video

[@TheCommonGentry]

Action Figures and Loki.. Isn't Selvy playing with (action) figures when she's taken by the time Authorly as a kid?

[@NandovMovies]

You're right!

[@NandovMovies]

How did I miss that

[@TheCommonGentry]

@@NandovMovies no worries, nando. we got yer back ;'D

[@stevenirizarry1304]

Identity crisis and looking for a purpose, that’s the vibe I got, and it’s a messy process, discovering things about yourself that you never knew existed(retcons)

[@TheJukeboxzero]

Funny. I thoroughly loved Phase 4. It got me into many of the KZbin channels I watch regularly now and theory-craft with my friends more than just passively watching (and also enjoying) the previous phases.

[@l8studios_]

Don’t call the number