Nannerl Mozart? - Sonata in C for piano 4 hands (K.19d) (1765)

[@musicalperson17]

This piece sounds VERY Mozartian, but not 'Wolfgangian' - almost like someone who grew up with identical musical training as Wolfgang, but made different choices of how to assemble that training into a composition. The surprise note/gesture choices, melancholy and unfulfilled longing are all there, but as others here have said, the flirtation with boundaries is mostly absent. How sad that we'll likely never hear the full breadth of Maria Anna's work! Can you imagine the concerti and symphonies she would have composed if given the opportunity?

[@kofiLjunggren]

True!!

[@CCI320]

Naw

[@noemie2601]

😢true

[@NelsonClick]

I would totally buy that this was Nannerl. It's close but doesn't have his flirtation with the audience. It's more polite and wants to fit in to expectations. To delight but not challenge or overstep boundaries like a hopeful young girl would typically do. If Nannerl did write this then I can see how Mozart would respect his sister and see her as an equal and value her feedback. I don't think Leopold wrote this as the many up/down scale runs would sound amateurish on a violin but would make good practice for a young hand learning to write quavers and semiquavers with a quill with ink on paper.

[@bartjebartmans]

I enjoyed reading your thoughtful reply. I think you nailed it.

[@SaxandRelax]

^

[@cangjie12]

I think the reason why it can’t be Wolfgang is because it lacks the sense of balance, proportion and perfect timing that his music has (even his earliest music). This composition is very flawed - the proportions and phrasing are off-balance.

[@RodrigoFernandez-td9uk]

If the composer was Nannerl, it was in fact written by Mozart. Thanks for the video, I always wanted to hear a piece by Nannerl.

[@SaxandRelax]

XD

[@marioalejandromartindelcam5558]

Read the description, it's by Wolfie

[@giacomozaccone2284]

Nannerl mentioned in a letter of 1800 that she had in possession other four hand works

[@kmk8284]

Leopold was super blessed with talent children

[@noemie2601]

and he ruined everything with Nannerl :S

[@rossconnolly3402]

I absolutely love this piece, whoever wrote it was great.

[@lifesmood]

Its Mozart

[@lifesmood]

But it sounds like Mozart. His interpretation and style

[@omarifarrow7043]

Lmao “whoever wrote it”

[@elmiramuradova561]

You spoil us a wonderful gift for true music lovers! Thank you so much. Эта музыка не оставляет просто так, это Божественная и грандиозная музыка. БРАВО МОЦАРТ!

[@williamdane4194]

The MOZART touch for sure.

[@_oooo_4675]

Love it how a variation of the frist theme in the 1st movement simply appears in Wolfgang's Piano Concerto No.21's first movement.

[@kofiLjunggren]

Where?

[@_oooo_4675]

@@kofiLjunggren bars 2-5

[@_oooo_4675]

@@kofiLjunggren and bars 128-129 in the concerto

[@_oooo_4675]

@@kofiLjunggren kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJi8YYSZis-nj6c Here at 3:56

[@lifesmood]

I really like this piece, so charming .thanks for uploading

[@robhaskins]

Would be great if Nannerl wrote it!!!

[@lavendelle_swift]

A delightful composition.

[@josswindsor8288]

Pure genius fantastic listen it and look mountains Alpes Austrian 8:25-8:30 excelent sensation

[@gervaisfrykman266]

This is an enjoyable piece. Thanks for loading and for the score.

[@wolfie8748]

I think all 3 has hands in this piece.

[@HansenTamayo-rf8dx]

I think both Maria Anna and Wolfgang composed this piece because it's for four hands,they worked together on this piece

[@bartjebartmans]

There is simply no proof of what you are saying. If Wolfgang was involved in this composition the secundo part would be far more developed and interesting than the basic acc. role it fulfills here. To me the secundo part is a dead give a way Wolfgang had nothing to do with it.

[@Kyubiwan]

In the first mvt, very interesting that whoever wrote this recapped the 1st and 2nd themes simultaneously rather than separately.

[@simonkawasaki4229]

The work has always remained catchy to me. A few years back, when I listened to NOTHING but Mozart, this was a favorite of mine. I love his piano-four-hands works. Will you be posting his others?

[@rowejon]

To me, this doesn't sound like Wolfgang. In one of Robert Levin's lectures he quotes a letter from Nannerl to Wolfgang asking (If I remember) for a cadenza. If she could compose a complete sonata, why would she need to ask for a cadenza?

[@jwhill7]

This work is known only from three printed editions: (1) London, Andrews, ca 1789, (2) London, Birchall, ca. 1797, and (3) Paris, Roullede, ca. 1787/88. The first and third of these advertise it as by "A. Mozart," and they were published at the hight of Mozart's fame. The second mentions no composer, and it was published after Mozart's death. The Neue Mozart Ausgabe (New Mozart Edition) is justified in consigning this to spurious or doubtful works. It contains a phrase or two lifted from Mozart's concertos written before 1787, but also contains details that would be very uncharacteristic of Mozart at any age. I think it is reasonable to conclude that the piece is a counterfeit, in the sense that it seems to have been written by a mediocre musician trying to immitate the style of Mozart's music in order to sell copies based on Mozart's name falsely applied.

[@karldittersdorf4508]

The first movement sounds like Wolfgang to me, but the remaining two I believe are not his. Either Nannerl, Leopold or both seem more likely to be the authors of the last movements. Just my humble opinion. Regardless, a charming work and very pleasant to listen to.

[@pietrolandri6081]

Interesting historical reconstruction about this lovely piece of music I used to play with my brother ages ago. Not sure to buy Nannerl's story as I'm not aware of any other extant or lost piece attributed to her. Thus the hypothesis that she wrote a four hands sonata out of the blue leaves me cold. But I'm not an expert.......Or maybe Leopold and both kids got fun and wrote it together....God knows However if movement #1 & 2 are indeed inoffensive I'd not overlook the little masterpiece that is the Rondeau. Especially the genius touch of suspension of running notes towards the end with a slow "Haydnian" pause before restart of rush.... hmmmm it's not something an amateur could think of. And my gut feeling says: third movement cannot be written by anyone else but Wolfgang

[@bartjebartmans]

I have studied Mozart's music my whole life, I am not going to state I am an expert, but I am far from being an amateur. Nannerl is said to have written several pieces when she was a young girl, but as was custom in those days it was unbecoming for a girl (woman) to write music. That she performed was already quite a thing. Needless to say that changed the minute she married. There are plenty of examples in music history where female composers/performers had to stop their activities the minute they married. Amanda Maier is an excellent example. She was musically superior to her husband Julius Rontgen but she stopped composing when she married him, that was part of the nuptials agreement. Check her violin sonata on my channel and you will see it can withstand comparison with any violin sonata composed in those days. Amy Beach used her husband's initials to get her works published. Etc. etc. BTW Nannerl was NOT an amateur.

[@pietrolandri6081]

@@bartjebartmans well your opinion is very worth of course. However we miss decisive evidence and we possibly would never have. I'm not an expert as I said but simple amateur hence I don't insist. I'm aware of female condition during history. Yet Nannerl was a kid at that time hence far away from idea of marriage. Also several women wrote music in previous centuries without blame. I don't name them as you obviously know. And yes Amanda was better than or equal to Julius, not to mention Fanny who was probably superior ro Felix or Clara (who kept writing after marriage with Robert and even when she was a widow) etc. The above said I have no issue to embrace the idea that this piece was written by Nannerl or at least co-written. But you must admit the Rondeau is absolutely not an inoffensive piece of music and has got genius touch that, in my extremely modest and amateurish opinion, has more likelihood to have been generated by Wolfgang than Leopold or Nannerl........ At least I'd bet my dollars on Wolfgang if I had to......

[@bartjebartmans]

It is very well possible that this was a joint project when they were in London. I can see your point about the Rondo. During those tours things changed quickly and when there was an opportunity for Leopold to showcase both of his children he didn't hesitate. I know I am assuming things here but it doesn't seem far fetched that they felt a 4 hand work would be a nice opportunity to make some money. Reading the letters of Leopold that was ALWAYS on his mind, the business man he was. Those tours were very expensive........We often forget how most works Mozart wrote were dictated by opportunity and commissions. I never get the feeling Mozart wrote ever something in's Blaue hinein for the heck of it.

[@pietrolandri6081]

@@bartjebartmans agree .... my opinion is also the first K with one digit have probably more than a scent of Leopold .... and possibly also some of early two digits K included Symphonies ... Yes probably a four or six hands work in London with whole Mozart gang to get fun about it (and smart Leopold to generate money out of it) is very probable Well father and kids always get fun.... this was Mozart's way ......

[@bartjebartmans]

You are aware Leopold at times played the violin with his kids at the keyboard, or they switched, Mozart on the violin and him or Nannerl at the keyboard? Or Wolfgang singing an aria, or Nannerl, she was also a very fine singer.... Imagine all those seat changes, the audience must have been baffled beyond belief, not to mention the endless improvs Wolfgang was capable of.

[@robertvivier1499]

To me , and according to Wolfgang Hildesheimer , Wolfgang indeniably wrote the Menuet and certainly the Allegro ; Maybe he left Nannerl wrote the Rondo

[@bartjebartmans]

No way he wrote the Allegro. Can you give me the sources?

[@robertvivier1499]

@@bartjebartmans No , just my ear 😉, I think he could have written this if he was really 9 years old !

[@abigail9206]

I find the mystery surrounding this piece fascinating. I personally think Nannerl probably composed it, or at the very least played a big part in helping compose it with her brother, and maybe even father. But we can’t really ever be sure can we? Either way, it’s a delight.

[@user-eh7hq8sr6x]

Эта соната написана Моцартом. По каталогу кёхеля 19. Моцарта 11 лет

[@josealexandreferreiradacos193]

To avoid silly arguments related to the authoship of thus piece, I keep the word "Mozartian" in totum. And if was a 3-hands piece (little Worfgang, Nannerln and Lepold, correctinh ere and there a detail) seems to be more likely. A family piece to the delight of Mrs. Mozart, wife and mother. And keep moving.

[@lifesmood]

5 dislike from Salieri team

[@simon-di7xt]

There's a lot of thrill! Obviously it's Mozart!

[@samrose565]

You shouldn't think that because it was good it was W.A. Mozart. Nannerl was highly praised by W.A. Mozart himself so she had to be good.

[@operamiser]

​@@samrose565get your feminist drama out of this conversation

[@lauraflorez378]

Does anyone have the sheet music for this video? Please I need it urgently

[@giacomozaccone2284]

This sonata( dated 1765 )is composed by Mozart who followed the harpsichord compositions by J Ch Bach

[@bartjebartmans]

It was not composed by Wolfgang. It has little or nothing of his hallmarks, maybe the Rondo. It is possible it was a shared project, for fun, as they needed something quick for a concert in London.

[@bartjebartmans]

@ Peter Rabbit Not an imitation, just conform to the tastes of those days. Fits in nicely with what an audience in those days would have expected or delighted.

[@millennial8441]

Was she a composer? I never heard or read anything about Maria Anne as a composer.

[@bartjebartmans]

We know that Nannerl composed because in some of his letters, Mozart compliments her on her music. But whatever she composed all got lost.

[@canman5060]

J C Bach any chnace ?

[@samrose565]

Cool thought, but it has to be one of the Mozarts. I don't think it is Leopold because W.A. Mozart and Nannerl were the people who played this when it was performed and they would get too much criticism playing something that wasn't composed by W.A. Mozart. Since there are letters around this time about a four-hand keyboard work by Nannerl I highly suspect Nannerl.

[@ryanpmcguire]

This is certainly not by Wolfgang.

[@ejdotw1]

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think you're taking into account the politics of sitting down and playing with one's sibling. The early tours that Leopold brought his children on were not just for the expose of Wolfgang, but both his children. He believed them both to be prodigal children. Imagine the competition, between them, especially her being the elder. Such a composition places Nannerl in a strictly supportive role, as 2nd - a quite bold stroke for his age.

[@ashtonbird468]

I'm starting to wonder if this piece is just the two of them sitting down together and improvising while their father wrote down what they were playing.

[@bartjebartmans]

Mozart's life and works I have studied for years and I have never read anything about him improvising with his sister piano 4 hands. Leopold would have mentioned it as he was meticulously reporting the progress of his children. There are plenty of examples Wolfgang improvising for hours on the harpsichord, organ, violin even singing but never with somebody else.

[@oscarcheval9269]

@@bartjebartmans I'm not sure of there being any evidence of Wolfgang improvising with Nannerl (it seems pretty clear to me that she never fostered improvisational ability), but there are records of Wolfgang improvising in court alongside J.C Bach in 1764. Nannerl recalled that they improvised so skillfully together on the same keyboard that it sounded as if it was just one person playing, while another report recalled that they lead each other "into abstruse harmonies and extraneous modulations, in which the child beat the man". I've never found anything else about joint improvisation though, and I'm not sure we could consider his competition with Clementi as a collaboration.

[@bartjebartmans]

@@oscarcheval9269 I re-read some of his and Leopold's letters and there was indeed one instance mentioned, the one you posted here. Thanks for the reminder. Nannerl must have been able to improvise though as that came with the package in those days.

[@oscarcheval9269]

@@bartjebartmans I imagine she probably could've, given she received the same musical education as her brother. I think it's always very telling though that whenever she asks Wolfgang to send her copies of the concertos etc, she always requests transcribed cadenzas and eingang (usually improvised). There's also some correspondence where she asks for Wolfgang to send her some modulating preludes that she can pass off as improvised in performance. Of course we'll never know for sure, but it would be my bet she either couldn't improvise well, or evidently was very uncomfortable trying to do so in concert.

[@anuarhelo3846]

Com certeza lembra Mozart, mas não é obra dele, é sim da irmã.

[@CaptainDoge360]

[@kasajizo3136]

leopold wrote it probably

[@danruth1089]

The outro: 4:00

[@Scpr.ValerieMay]

When Mozart and Beethoven played together! No! It's actually Nannerl&Wolfie!😀

[@HowardTse]

This is Mozart copying Mozart....

[@garrysmodsketches]

Sure, this piece couldn't have been written by a mature Mozart. But a 9-year-old Mozart? I don't know man. Why are people so sure that he could never write such a "bad" piece?

[@Rockingbart]

The secondo part with bare octaves in the left hand, measures on end, is totally un-Mozart. He used the Alberti bass but not like a gimmick as in this piece.