NAR and Progressive Christianity: Two Sides of the Same Coin?, with Paul Copan

[@Paul_Copan]

Thanks for having me on your program, Alisa! Always a pleasure and a privilege!

[@debbiedueck7162]

Thank you Alisa for having this important discussion with Paul Copan! We Christians need to have more discernment about who we follow and what we read. We need to know the Word ourselves!

[@ssn-tough-ltl]

Wonderful presentation from a brilliant speaker and teacher in Dr Copan. You are to be praised for your work and dedication to our Lord.

[@readfamilylearner]

Another thing NAR types and Greg Boyd (and maybe other Progressives) have in common is a love for mysticism. I don’t mean exuberant worship or having spiritual feels, but actually seeking unmediated experiences of God, untethered from the Bible. Which is how we see them twisting and ignoring so much of it.

[@SirChristoferus]

I’ve noticed this from some of the Unitarian Universalism and UMC congregations, going even as far as to refer to God as a goddess during the month of June.

[@HoldToChrist]

and it’s not even that seeking direct experiences of God is bad. It’s just when you actually expect those experiences to contradict the Holy Spirit through Scripture that is becomes a serious issue.

[@terrypaul7706]

@@HoldToChristscripture is written for the reader to grow in the knowledge of Christ! Let the reader UNDERSTAND it says!!! Understand what?? That it’s history?? 😂 that’s not understanding? Gods name forever IS I AM ( exodus 3.14).. what’s everyone’s name??? I AM, that’s how YOU refer to self!!! No one can say I AM for YOU! God is ONE.. ONE I AM!! The word made flesh… are you I AM in the flesh??? If you don’t believe that.. you deny Christ! You deny God! You deny scripture! You are dead in your sins right NOW! Now is all there is..

[@Philthefisherofmen]

Can someone fill me in a little bit on NAR? What the letters stand for? And the definition of what the do or believe? I probably go to this type church and I’m not aware of it.

[@terrypaul7706]

@@Philthefisherofmen if they don’t take the bible as a history book then that is scripture.. but if you are in a literal church then that is a false concept and a false religion 😎

[@lizmarsi1034]

Thank you Alisa & Dr.Copan for giving us the truth ❤

[@emilyaustinbook]

Thank you for this discussion! After leaving 30 years of progressive Christianity, these conversations really help me find perspective.

[@MikeMcMArt]

Your podcasts and your books have proved invaluable to me and mine...thank you for your journey, for your commitment to our Lord and for the very in-depth but accessible way of addressing major issues in our world today. May our great Lord bless you in every way.

[@Jane8ification]

Thank you for shedding light on these voices that are influencing Christian culture in un-Godly ways. I was involved for many years in a fellowship of churches that were 100% given to serving the Lord and we believed in the restored Apostolic ministry. We were centered around the current Word of God backed by scriptures. We had many teachings and prophecies over the years, and felt God's faithfulness through it all. Yet, despite warnings we heard in this teaching multiple times of what God would do if we just let ourselves become another organization/religion rather than a true walk with God, gradually that is exactly what we became, and it was a culture heavily influenced and controlled by human nature and not God nature. Thankfully God was true to His Word, and He brought it down swiftly, like no one else could orchestrate. It was the hardest thing I ever went thru, but also the most freeing thing. The saddest thing about the whole thing is it seems the majority of the young people and many of our peers seem to have entirely turned their back on God. There are still many others such as myself and my husband who had a walk with God before we were introduced to the movement, and continue on now, being freed from the bondage and gradually walking out of that old culture into a renewed walk with God. I do believe in the 5-fold ministries God anoints, but let God identify them as He sees fit, and let us put no man, nor our own identities or feelings, on a pedestal, but keep our eyes fixed on Him. The greater the anointing, the humbler the position becomes, as it is truly one to serve God and His people, and not the other way around.// When we read the scriptures let the Holy Spirit reveal Himself to us in it. But let us not take what we don't understand and rationalize it out. The Lord's sheep know His voice, and if we let Him, He will lead us in His ways. His ways are not our ways and are contrary to our understanding. It takes humble obedience to truly follow Him and He gives us the tools to test and identify when He speaks to us. But be careful not to use these as an excuse to delay obedience. These are all words I am rehearsing to myself as I do need them 😊

[@76insider]

Great discussion. Its always heartening to see people articulate my misgivings in a clear way (better than I can)

[@24chrissypooh]

It’s always so refreshing to hear your calm way of explaining things.

[@lorab.6420]

This was such an interesting topic and thanks for shining the light on Greg Boyd, as well as Tyler Johnson, I am not planning on reading either one of their books, so it’s nice to know what’s in them to avoid! It just seems to me that these are people who want to have followers who want to sell books, and if they start a cult…what they go to-is God’s word and twist it change it take it out of context, call it Jesus hermeneutics to make themselves look and sound important. Bottom line is they are not. Problem is Christian’s do not read their Bible observe what it says interpret it correctly and apply it to their lives through prayer more prayer and prayer! The world, or someone who is on the fringes of the church, without knowing the truth are at the whim of any doctrine that comes through. Jesus is God, God is the same today and throughout eternity forward or backward. Thanks again for a wonderful podcast 😊 Lora

[@nann-xu9ik]

Alisa your podcasts are awesome 👍

[@roblangsdorf8758]

When Jesus didn't include the Rath of God portion in his quote about his calling, it was because he was not fulfilling that part of the prophesy at that time. At his first coming, he was inviting people to accept his free gift that he was providing by his death on the cross. In his second coming, he will provide the judgment against those who refuse the free gift.

[@jankragt7789]

Christians through the ages have assumed the need for the full character of God for a full story of the fall, evil & redemption. Why is now different? Is it because these movements are themselves assuming for themselves the role of judgment? Their behavior must be seen as under the God's rainbow of goodness. Excellent discussion. I need to get these books and keep listening. Thank you, Alisa & Dr. Paul Copan.

[@monabo1]

That "progrrssive jesus" sounds like a liberal idea to keep us complacent and subservient to the devil.

[@cherylwilliams4738]

Has Alisa ever interviewed a "Progressive Christian" here on her KZbin channel? If so, can you please share the video here in comments? Man, Alisa sure can point fingers at others! 👈🏼👇🏼👉🏼 👮🏼🚔🚨😕 So can anyone tell me what stream of Christianity does Alisa swim in? 🏊🏼

[@joanschutter5863]

Or subservient to our modern American culture! Progressive Christianity is pro-homosexuality, Social Justice, limited (as opposed to none) abortion. Natasha Carin’s book, Faithfully Different, really helps sort out our response.

[@terrypaul7706]

No religion keeps you subservient to the devil which is your carnal lower mind! A god outside of self is Satan! Know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ IS IN YOU ( 2 Corinth 13.5)… so what are you blind fools looking for outside of you??? The blind lead the blind both fall in the ditch.. that’s the religious if you couldn’t figure out who it’s speaking about 😂

[@lorienpatmore3520]

Thanks for all you do Alisa !

[@tiffanydaniel8996]

Love Dr. Copan! He AND his brother were my professors! 😁

[@bengrivno]

Great discussion, all false gospels have similarities. The wrath and justice of God is extremely vital for a full understanding of him. I wish Paul had gone more into the similarities between NAR and progressive Christianity.

[@klc52009]

Thank you so much!

[@stevenoyes3988]

Thank you Alissa.

[@caley.j.n]

Thank you for this great video!! Definitely adding these books to my list

[@ThisBloke760]

I’ve been cautioned not to meet in a home church as it leads to wrong doctrines. In my experience major denominations and movements lead far more people astray.

[@lyddie8]

This makes sense, I have a lot of family members who would say they are non denominational but that lean Charismatic and they seem to have a similar view of Jesus.

[@SuzanneWyss-h3t]

This was really interesting and informative. I appreciate you discussing these challenging issues. You are doing valuable work.

[@roycevanblaricome634]

Good thought-provoking discussion.

[@rebukey]

Thanks for all you do.

[@vondamcneil6951]

Thank you for a great show! I thought about Matt. 10:34-36. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.”d

[@karenpeterson5780]

Great discussion, thank you both!

[@Priscilla_Bettis]

I learned a lot. Great discussion!

[@darylgiffin3235]

Excellent Alisa. This has motivated me to research more on is NAR progressive Christianity?

[@JoseenJack]

Most helpful and enlightening. Thank you!!

[@lindajaeger4953]

The Day of Vengeance is the Second Coming. He didn't come for that the first time

[@lisasamaras3109]

Excellent interview, Alisa!!

[@margarethobson2271]

Thank you for this clarification

[@317237hope]

Thank you!

[@josephschiavone402]

And what about Matt 23, and Jesus declaring the woe's

[@dianew.3120]

Alisa, I never know what the abbreviations mean in your titles.

[@daverogg8701]

Rule of theological thumb…avoid the Boyd!!

[@joleebeamer3138]

I was always bothered about the times in Scripture where God said to kill everyone, including the women and children. After studying the Scripture through Dr. Michael Heiser's work in books like Supernatural, it suddenly made sense. It's a Supernatural battle happening and God was protecting His people from the abominations created by the sons of God. A deeper study into the tower of Babel is fascinating as well. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and Jesus has been revealed since the beginning!

[@jn4104]

When it was described what Greg Boyd’s view of the Bible is and then specified that Boyd does not consider himself a progressive - this makes no sense to me. This is exactly how my family in ministry in the UCC teach the Bible. I have come across more Bible believing churches where they use a similar hermeneutic but still claim to be conservatives. I’ve referred to those churches as “woke.” The label is offensive to some of those folks. Other note in my years at Bethel influenced churches - I was constantly thinking of a similar comparison with how the Bible is treated. And some of the “woke” (by my definition) churches are also Bethel affiliated. Not every segment of the NAR is right wing political. The area where celebrity culture flirts with seeker sensitivity and a form of wokeness meet is an observable characteristic of Bethel. I am often laughed at in anti NAR circles to suggest this because the trump worship crowd is so dominant in the NAR, but there is another aspect to Bethel specifically. When Bill Johnson said that he had many of their students who supported BLM in one of the recent Revealing Bethel podcasts - most discernment ministries immediately thought he was lying. He wasn’t lying at all about that. Bethel has been unique among the NAR in embracing many points of progressivism. It’s hidden, and you almost have to be there to see it, but this is my experience. Hearing a description and discussion on this hermeneutic brings a lot of explanation to some of the confusion I’ve had over this. Perhaps the hermeneutic is the reason so many Bethel pastors and worship leaders began reading and falling for progressive authors and speakers - particularity between 2018-2020.

[@TXLogic]

The problem is that there are two conflicting narratives: one that tries to reconcile the character of Jesus revealed in the Gospels with the violent, wrathful tribal deity of the Old Testament - apparently out of an a priori commitment to the literal truth of the OT - and another that finds the two irreconcilable. But both are entirely rational constructs, and there is absolutely no way for either side to convincingly refute the other.

[@janiceepp5157]

I would love you to have Bill Johnson or Kris Valloton as a guest.

[@cherylwilliams4738]

I respect this sisters opinions, but why does she feel the need to continually police the Body of Christ. She surly doesn't have the edge on TRUTH. 🧐🙄🤔

[@toolegittoquit_001]

​@@cherylwilliams4738Well, the Bible certainly does 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@cherylwilliams4738]

@@toolegittoquit_001 we all interpret the scriptures through our own bias

[@kathyd456]

​@@cherylwilliams4738 I have questions for you... Edge on whose truth? Does our bias change the truth? Why do you not think some accountability (policing, as you say) should occur? Juat curious. Thanks.

[@cherylwilliams4738]

@@kathyd456 I agree, I am probably viewing/interpreting scripture through my own bias as well...we ALL do it! If scripture were so black and white, there wouldn't be over 35,000 different Christian denominations. For each denomination in existence, there was an unresolvable conflict between people in denomination "A" that resulted in denomination "B". This means that some perceived that a doctrine, belief or practice in denomination "A" was so far off track, that splitting off from another denomination was not only reasonable but imperative. And this kind of thing continues over and over and over again. The scripture is full of stories, nuance and complexity, and it places a lot of burden of interpretation on the reader. People interpret the scriptures based on their values and biases and perceptions about how one can optimally live their lives. So each of us ought not act like we have the handle on truth... Just sayin 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@rebeccadikeman9181]

Progressives always seem to forget, or perhaps they don’t believe, that “all Scripture is God-breathed.” And not only that, but the Son was with the Father (they are one) from the beginning and all things revealed by and done by God in the OT was done in unity by the godhead- Father, Son, Spirit.

[@leslielutz6028]

It seems to me that Greg Boyd doesn’t know what he believes as he seems to have changed his ideas - I repeat his ideas- from what I read. He went from Roman Catholic to atheist to charismatic to whatever he is now…He just needs to pray for Truth from God , his Word, and stop being rocked about by everything he hears - he’s not stable in his theology. Prideful too- which keeps us from the Truth by our own sinfulness. 🙏

[@StephenOBrien-bs9ks]

Instead of rocked, it would be more appropriate to say 'tossed about by every wind of doctrine'! LOL

[@c.greystone9825]

The title should be “ NAR and Progressive Christianity - Two Sides of the Same Con”.

[@SpotterVideo]

New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below? Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary? What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Watch the KZbin videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

[@davidwireback8621]

One commentor too legit to quit. Doesn’t like to have a real conversation just likes to spout off what he believes and tell you you’re wrong. And then not let you comment.

[@alomax92]

Bethel teaches another Jesus (kenosis) and therefore is outside the bounds of Christianity, on par with Mormons.

[@davidwireback8621]

I guess you don’t understand Philippians two versus five through seven. And the gossip going around to Bill Johnson does not believe that Jesus was always God is false. Just Paul said that Jesus lead aside his attributes or his prerogatives of being divine. Does not mean he ever stop being God he just did not use that part of him while he was on earth he operated as a man filled with the holy spirit give us a model we are to live in faith and by the Holy Spirit. He does not teach another gospel. Teach another gospel those who deny the gifts of the spirit as for today . denying that God still speaks to people in our spirits. Not just with the word.

[@alomax92]

@@davidwireback8621 no, sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts

[@davidwireback8621]

@@alomax92 and you know this hell.

[@alomax92]

@@davidwireback8621 yes, I do know that Bill Johnson in an instrument of hell

[@QuinnEdwards1]

It is undermining the Bible to discard anything about God’s wrath since it wasn’t in the gospels. The only books I can think of that don’t have a form of wrath on someone is Prov, Song of Sol and Eccl. You can’t just toss the majority of the OT

[@georgwilliamfriedrichhegel5744]

How to be a theologian: 1) Pick a verse you like, 2) interpret it in a way that makes you (and other people) feel good, 3) ignore everything else.

[@JonathanMoore-k1k]

I was homeless, got into drugs, went into prisons, then i got to know Jesus, He changed my life.. Now i make 22k weekly. have a home, a wife, a lovely daughter... A child of God. HALLELUJAH!.

[@Jo.hooks1]

How did you do it? Do explain please 😯 My family have been into series of sufferings lately.

[@JonathanMoore-k1k]

It's Christina Ann Tucker doing she's changed my life. A BROKER- like her is what you need.

[@JonathanMoore-k1k]

After I raised up to 325k trading with her I bought a new House and a car here in the states 🇺🇸🇺🇸 also paid for my daughter's surgery (Joey). Glory to God.shalom.

[@Amos-g4l]

I do know Christina A. Tucker, I also have even become successful....

[@Claire-s6h]

Absolutely! I've heard stories of people who started with little to no knowledge but made it out victoriously thanks to Christina Ann Tucker.

[@kathybj]

This subject leaving off the vengeance portion of Scripture in Isaiah was actually addressed in The Chosen. Jesus (Jonathan R) explains why He stopped there (when the scribes and Pharisees questioned Him about stopping). He answered just as y’all are describing.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

The Chosen ? 🤢

[@makeitcount179]

Low volume google interference

[@paulkern2544]

This came out of the Latter Day Movement of the late 40' s. Many of this type like IHOP, City Church and others. Very authoritation and disconnected from Biblical discernment

[@RainbowMan.]

Wow!! 🤯 😻💎😞🌈🍁

[@carlafoss9248]

This is a scary way of viewing scripture. It makes it weak. Scripture is full and so interconnected. It’s clear to me God authored it and it’s inerrant in its overall message

[@belight1641]

Jes Jesus was and is perfect. He was the perfect sacrifice. What does theology do? It describes God. John 14:9: Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? => Jesus is perfect theology! And he also spoke about judgement and hell.

[@TempleofChristMinistries]

Let me tell you a story about Greg Boyd, when his daughter was around 10-years-old give or take, he intentionally deceives his daughter to cause her suffering and humiliation for his good pleasure and amusement, all in the name of Jesus Christ Emmanuel son of god son of light love immaculate Love divine, a little girl's heart is open vulnerable and Unguarded for what reason would she need to guard her heart from her father, does she not trust her father to tell her the truth and not deceive her, especially to intentionally deceive her to cause a suffering and humiliation for his good pleasure and amusement, what would this do to a little girl's heart how can she trust her father again, Greg Boyd is a hypocrite, he wants to darken God's Council with the words without knowledge, a hypocrite has no authority or lright to sit in the seat of judgement, he is an ignorant man when he produces such evil from his heart and he think it nothing, is this what we should expect from our Father in heaven that he should intentionally deceive us to to cause us suffering and humiliation for his good pleasure and amusement, does this not depict the character of the Devil, what happens when his little girl grows up to be a beautiful young woman and she falls in love, every father's dream or every father's nightmare, for What man is worthy of a father's daughter, what then if he is there at the reception and and sees his little girl dining with the groom and Friends and they are all laughing having a good time, yet on closer inspection what does he find, that his daughter is weeping she turns to him and runs to the Father's arms and the father says why do you weep, and she tells him, the man I married who claimed to love me deceive me to cause me suffering and humiliation for his good pleasure and amusement, what will that do to the Father's heart, will it not fill his heart with fire, yet, how can the father judge the groom because the father is the groom, if he brings forth fire down upon the groom for what he has done then he brings down fire upon himself, this is what hypocrites do, the moment they condemn they are condemned because they condemn themselves they simply failed to see themselves in front of their faces, and this is Mr Greg Boyd and so many like him, where will the young woman find a good husband when the Father's produce Loveless sons.

[@TempleofChristMinistries]

What is Greg Boyd going to do with the husband and wife who died at Peter's feet for lying to him and Peter said, you have not lied to man but you god.

[@marklundberg2471]

One more thing everything in Jesus’s Life was political. However. He did not teach us Social Justice. Jesus came to set the people Free. America is closest to the Freedom Jesus brought!

[@davidwireback8621]

You were causing a lot of people to look at Bethel and charismatics in such a negative light and in the false light. They are not involved with progressive Christianity. They have not left to faith. We do not deny the Scriptures like you do. You say you believe in the gifts of the spirit but all you ever do is talk against them. Tell me that you don’t believe in the gifts. You have been deceived so many times because you don’t have gift for the spirit. When I heard that this guy said that Peter was practicing Christian witchcraft. I knew right away that this guy is gone off the rail . Not holding the teachings that Bethel teaches.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

They have many heterodox views such as the little gods nonsense and the Kenosis heresy

[@makeitcount179]

Guest voice : high treble no bass...communication style...obtuse, awkward explanation.

[@intentionally-blank]

But besides that how do you f e e l ?

[@doxieherblitz]

So ..... ?

[@makeitcount179]

@@doxieherblitz So, the topic is relevant. How many times have you heard "Doctrine divides and Love unites!"...as an exit from theological discussions? So if "Jesus Perfect Theology" relegates the O.T. to some kind of 2nd class, maybe inspired maybe not theology ...then it's worth TALKING CLEARLY about

[@davidwireback8621]

Just had one person respond to me saying that I’m hateful because I’m challenging Alisa and her opinion of Bethel Church in Redding. They are not progressive lady. They believe in the Trinity they believe in the gospel they believe you must be born again to be saved you must believe and confess with your mouth and later to be baptized. And be baptized in the holy spirit speaking in tongues. they believe that Jesus Christ is the truth. He says Jesus is perfect. He’s talking about what Jesus said and did in the Scriptures nowhere else the Scriptures. You are implying something to a church that has nothing to do with progressive Christianity. I’m asking you to stop with your gossip and your miscarriage of church group. And sorry to say that you know what you should really stop listening to this woman because she is obsessed with gossiping. I’m calling her out because she built a podcast based on gossip and secondhand information. I challenge you to go up to Bethel and sit down and actually talk with them. If you’re not willing to do that then you need to be quiet

[@toolegittoquit_001]

The believe the Kenosis heresy and consistently preach that we are 'little gods' Utter nonsense and a great example of eisegesis 😢

[@tomkeller6982]

It's so hard to listen to this discussion. Why give your attention to this kind of ludicrousy? Call it what it is and be done with it.

[@sometimesnevernot]

Why give attention to it? Because so many are falling for it. Same as so much else at this point, which ought not even require response because it's so ridiculous, now we also, sadly, have to explain why women don't have a penis and men can't breastfeed. This is the same unnecessary but very necessary discussion.

[@TXLogic]

Yeah, let’s call it out for the “ludicrousy” that it is!

[@kyrielovesthelord]

Being kind and gracious in saving souls and bringing people out of these deceptions is crucial. Calling people who believe these lies "crazy" and waking away is neither loving nor helpful. They need explanations and guidance. This conversation was beautiful.

[@patgiesbrecht3327]

All the things that he says is not true

[@intentionally-blank]

LIke?

[@PikesPeeks]

@@intentionally-blank well, for me, the way he describes Greg Boyd‘s hermetic is something I can see partially, shall we say… there is indeed a sense in which the time frames must be factored into interpretation. However, if the way the guest speaker is presenting, it is accurate then Dr. Boyd is going way too far, even though I’m sure he scores points with liberal scholars for being a Stute or whatever, but it would almost seem that he has ulterior motives or some agenda that he is using his superimposed hermeneutic to promote.

[@carahindes4341]

Thank you 🙏🏻