Narcissism, Echoism, and Need Panic

0:00 Intro
0:35 Review of Echoism
3:07 Why does Echoism foster need panic?
5:10 How to manage need panic when it strikes
Narcissism, Echoism, and Need Panic
Echoists tend to present themselves as having few or no needs in most relationships, but when those needs finally make themselves known, panic can ensue. In this video I review what need panic really is, and several methods for coping with it if you or someone you know is caught in that cycle.
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[@MT-tx7bu]

Thank you so much for all of your help. We sure look forward to these videos. For years, I buried my own needs. I'm sure there are those in my family who feel as though I have the upper hand because I never complain or even state what it is I need. My family does, get the moment I say what it is I want or even state a boundary, I get met with the silent treatment or, rage. Very telling. Not long ago, someone in my family had asked for a favor, as they always do, this time I said that I couldn't as I already had commitments. Now they have stonewalled me. This is what causes the panic. Of course, the first thing I think of is what did I say that was so wrong? I know I didn't say anything wrong but it's still confounding and hurtful. These are those moments when I could exercise my needs by stating them, Even trying to clarify or come up with a different idea as to how this person can get their needs met. So, what I have been doing, instead of ruminating is getting out and enjoying the day. I hope this helps someone who might be going through this as well. It doesn't make the pain go away, but what it does do is say to you that your needs are as important as theirs. Thanks again doctor

[@CraigMalkin]

I’m so glad you’re finding my work helpful -and thank you for your thoughtful comments for the community.

[@wendyelliott6828]

I so relate to your experiences. Thanks for expressing it so well. Wendy

[@RonSafreed]

A lifetime of narcissistic abuse from childhood into my mid years turned me into a life-long echoist!!

[@artcheeze]

I feel like need panic is what fuels narcissists control games. Varying manifestations of the same core feelings of loss and neglect

[@imm0rtalitypassi0n]

Yes. Even if it's not an intentional game for an npd type- it still fuels the dynamic.

[@joedaley6031]

"may you always do for others, and let others do for you" bob Dylan, forever young

[@Hannah2265]

Thank you so much for explaining this... I always allow others to express their needs and downplay mine. Then, when I finally speak up, I'm rejected. I like writing a note to help me understand my anxiety. Great message Doc. 👋👋

[@wallymarcel1]

Very helpful, not-really-talked-about subject. If it weren’t for exercise, I think I’d be dead by now. This year, while it was in the theaters, I also went to see the movie, “Elvis” once week. A great and highly entertaining way to distract myself from a lot of unmet needs.

[@serenityserenity9829]

Mother was a narcissist on my second narcissist marriage and I'm just now understanding this is where much of my anxiety has come from .I don't care as much as I use to about disrupting the often needed peace of my narcissist relationships now I try to express my Needs and let the chips fall where they may. I still have guilt when I do pleasurable things just for Me but it's a work in progress

[@MaaZy_]

“As soon as I feel certain need, anxiety come up” I think (from experience) that this anxiety is coming from my negative assumption that my need won’t get validate or taken care of! and/or to escalate to conflict.

[@annetallegrand5656]

I can’t believe this, all these years. Here’s my answer. The need panic feels like a tantrum like someone has to do something, because I’m not able to, it’s like a huge rush of “what will I do, somebody help! ME!” , and as a golden I am familiar with getting special treatment. But I’m still an echo, wow. But I’m no narcissist I can’t believe I’m only now discovering this , It’s fascinating. I married a vulnerable and I found myself. How interesting, I’ve been echoing, this whole time 😢 Btw: every golden doesn’t develop NPD.

[@DanielleCrowell-hd3py]

This was a great video, thank you. The way you break down topics and explain them is helpful. This is a big challenge I experienced for years on the echoist side of the spectrum. The urgency to act while also feeling intense shame around it was a complex scenario to manage. Especially coupled with trying to meet the needs with people who were also relationally unhealthy. It made for lots of unmet needs and confusion, repeatedly infinitum. I still get the panic somewhat but have worked a lot with regulation and boundaries to be ok with the discomfort and the patterns of urgency. I’m finding that doing regular death meditations helps me with the urgency and panic energy that can accompany these sorts of thoughts and reactions. Mindfulness and quiet acceptance that if nothing changes it is still and will be ok.

[@victoriousjoy9338]

I never knew what to call this. Thanks for the ideas on ways to ameliorate this!!

[@imm0rtalitypassi0n]

My recent discovery of echoism is life changing. I'm definitely on that spectrum though not severe. And I tend to have close friends & partners on the narcissistic spectrum- mostly extroverted friends and introverted partners, where I am the "giver" in less than equal ways despite the sadness it brings me sometimes. This video makes SO much sense. I had a situationship partner who intuitively met all of my needs without my asking- a first for me...until his own issues and fears got in the way and he began what you've described as a "subtle narcissistic" decline into withdrawal of his side of giving and reciprocating, but without demaning mine- in fact he flupped from loving my thoughtfulness to almost hating it. From what I knew of him, he seems to struggle with both introverted npd and echoism depending on how narcissistic his partner is. ..and then I became more neurotic and emotionally wounded than I think I've ever been before. My echoism seems to function in that I do not ask for my needs to be met, but I am very seen and happy if someone decides to meet them or offer help, etc. I can then accept, but I have a hard time not returning- because then it feels like I'm "taking" too much. Well he and I were really meeting each other's emotional needs and once it was met with resistance...ugh. It sucked for both of us. I have never felt so wounded even though the reality of it did not warrant the reactions I was having and trying to mitigate.

[@TangoCat303]

Thank you - a very helpful way of looking at that whole dynamic. I'm glad to find your channel.

[@CraigMalkin]

Thank you for watching!

[@janehale4402]

Thank you ,at time when I really need some coping strategies, you gave me some.

[@cathyfourie3323]

Thank you for the explanation and tools to use.

[@daliborilic5358]

Thank you dr. Malkin!

[@m0L3ify]

I don't need a cheating partner or a layoff to trigger need panic. It can be as simple as needing new clothes or wanting to buy something fun when I don't have a job and am relying on my partner for money, even though they're extremely generous and kind about it. Even just needing to get into the kitchen to cook or grab something really quickly when someone else is there triggers need panic where I start trying to devise alternate plans for going without and calculating how long I can survive.

[@lioubovgrant1935]

Thank you so much ! 👍

[@sylviebigger4939]

Id like more info on struggles in voicing ,after suppressing for yrs how to find your voice and demonstrate confidence in live disputes. Freeze mode. Or dear in the headlights

[@wendyelliott6828]

My husband prefaced many comments with “I NEED you to …”. I deferred. I am trying to work out what I was afraid of. Why could I not say NO?

[@RutichkaM]

This is incredibly interesting, thank you. Is it possible for echoism and covert narcissism traits to overlap in the same person, or is it more likely that an echoist will see covert narcissist traits in themselves because they're blowing up their more 'negative' personality traits and attributing 'badness' to them?

[@joedaley6031]

thank you eek

[@taom9004]

For fear of rejection and abandonnment. How do I know if my anxiety expressed itself in outrage or if I was just being manipulated into a game of emotional hot potato? Because I got angry often over my 34 years of marriage, completely understandably. His behaviours were over the top but he lied really well.

[@CraigMalkin]

Sending my support in healing ❤️‍🩹

[@taom9004]

@@CraigMalkin Thank you. I am doing much much better, thanks to your book and videos and time :)

[@elizabeththompson6226]

That’s me.

[@gayemurphy3271]

Need panic like/co dependant ??? Thanks 👍🙏

[@renatasafonova9109]

don't understand, I have both narcissistic traits and an echoist. my mother is controlling and psychologically abusive, she always compared me with other children, I was useless and it was my own fault. she didn't like me, she used to kick me out of her room. I was a rebellious child, in my teens there was alcohol, nicotine and now I have addictions, from relationships and others. I also have anxiety and depression. I often look at other feelings first, except for my parents. at home I am different, more open and sharp. I don't like to be the center of attention in public (although sometimes I dream how nice it would be if people were attracted to me), I'm even afraid to wear new shoes, lest someone think that I'm better than someone. I often give in to others, I don't like conflict and I don't understand others' anger. also sensitive to criticism and rejection, I need a little attention. I am also very giving to people who care about me. and I'm also afraid of having a narcissistic disorder.

[@rw4754]

I have a 'Needs Panic' every 4 years roughly.😱😵‍💫😮☹😅🤣😂

[@serenityserenity9829]

Can a hero covert narcissist be also dealing with this themselves

[@gayemurphy3271]

+ what's name of ur book?

[@CraigMalkin]

The one I mention at the start: Rethinking Narcissism

[@Mikecores]

Echo was not a wood nymph. She was an Oread. . so a stone nymph. They came in all the elements back then. ;)

[@mardishores4016]

What does it mean when my partner says. 'I don't know what I'd do without you'?