when the word narcissism started getting tossed around i was confused because werent people just talking about how mental health needed to be destigmatized and here they are talking about 'narcissists' like theyre some evil villian these people arent 'narcissists' sometimes they are just assholes
@IshtarNike3 ай бұрын
Sadly most people have too loose a grasp of science and psychology to hear about something like narcissism without applying it to every disagreeable person they meet. That being said, it's also pretty common in a way. All these things, if there's like even 2% of people out there with it, that's 2 in 100 people. So over a lifetime you're pretty likely to run into them in some capacity. If they have a condition which predisposes them to abusive behaviour then I think that's important to know and important for people to be warned about. I suffered for years with someone who I think would likely be so serious as to be diagnosable. Personally I'm fine with calling her a bad person. She understands morality enough. She can turn it on and off based on what she needs. In the abstract I'm definitely on the side of getting these people help. And yes the moral panic around it is bad for everyone. But the abuse is real and highly destructive. That can't be allowed to pass by because we're favouring the perpetrator over the victim. Some things can't really avoid a stigma if they're factually dangerous.
@saltydinonuggies18413 ай бұрын
@@IshtarNikebut the stigma is keeping people from getting the help that they need. How is someone expected to get help when everyone around them is constantly talking about how psychologists have proven that they’re inherently dangerous evil villains? Getting rid of the stigma is getting them help. It’s not excusing abuse, it is acknowledging that npd is not a predisposition to being abusive and that a disorder does not cause abuse. A person causes abuse.
@holliebrokaw37163 ай бұрын
When people talk about mental health, they only ever mean anxiety and depression. SOMETIMES adhd will get an honorable mention. Extremely occasionally.
@derpkipper3 ай бұрын
@@IshtarNikethis
@joshuaallgood70303 ай бұрын
@@saltydinonuggies1841 People with NPD are diagnosed not because of the stigma, but because that they realize that none of their interpersonal relationships are working out and they lack self-awareness to understand why. The stigma comes after the diagnosis, when it’s revealed publicly and they’re ostracized for it. Personally, as someone who was narcissistically abused by my own roommate (this person has an NPD diagnosis and despite seeing 2 separate therapists for treatment, they still hurt me) and was mutilated in my sleep, as much as I want to understand them, my pain and suffering overwhelms any chance of doing so. I know people with covertly narcissistic traits who are too timid to abuse anyone, but because of my personal experiences, my empathy is limited. The most I can do is just pity that person and people like them because they grew up in an equally abusive household and it was just how they were taught to navigate life.
@billiebyron98903 ай бұрын
as someone with a lot of npd traits who is constantly told i'm doomed to be irredeemably evil no matter how hard i work to keep them in check, thank you.
@saturdayschild85353 ай бұрын
Who is telling you this? It’s not uncommon for actually disordered people to project their traits onto us. If you are actively working on these “traits” you were told you have, you might not be a narcissist if you actually care to try. I was raised around many personality disordered people. They do not care to change, even a little, unless they want something from you. Always consider the source before you accept someone claiming you are something evil.
@ItsAllNunya3 ай бұрын
We're not evil, and we can do better. I started to get better when I found even One good support who stuck by me while also telling me when I was being a shit. It can be done. I promise. You're not doomed, and you're not evil. Be safe out there.
@starchilde86983 ай бұрын
@@saturdayschild8535 Why try to frame this as if the only people demonizing stigmatized personality traits/behaviors are inevitably the "actual" ones with said behavior? Just because your were hurt by dysfunctional people doesn't mean that they were "disordered" in the sense that op is, or that they were clinically disordered at all. It's an uncomfortable truth, but completely "normal", empathetic people do horrific shit every day, including spout bigotry and beat down on the mentally ill. Which is what "personality disordered people" are. Cluster b disorders are more than likely trauma-born disorders, manifestations of C-ptsd. A lot of academics have been leaning towards this idea for a while. The people who meet the criteria for these conditions have almost always been abused and/or exposed to a continuously hostile environment. I know when emotions we've been really hurt it can feel good and even safe to rely on a scapegoat. If certain behaviors are the result of people being "disordered", then you just have to avoid those wrong people and everything will be fine. This kind of thought process only leads to people getting hurt, and even more people not getting the help they need to heal. Instead of assuming that op couldn't possibly be like what they say they are, maybe consider that your conception of narcissists is narrow, informed only by personal anecdotes, and could use some fresh perspective. I'd lurk around the npd subreddit and other spaces used by and for people with NPD. Take in their experiences, see the diverse spectrum of people with this condition and what it's like to live in their shoes. You might find they're more like you than you think. We are all only human.
@AnimosityIncarnate3 ай бұрын
@@ItsAllNunya 7 years alone. Still looking for one but of support...
@theinflatableslimslam22233 ай бұрын
@@ItsAllNunyathat’s the thing about the term being thrown around so casually and sometimes it seems, used as an excuse to detach from anyone and everyone who causes the slightest inconvenience. In that kind of environment no one gets support and everyone is devalued, which are the very things that cause the disorder in the first place. In addition, people with the disorder themselves might feel more empowered to project onto others and excuse themselves from accountability. Obviously people need to be informed about what abuse looks like and know that they shouldn’t have to put up with it, but in general, we as a society need more understanding and stronger communities, and I feel that this trend has mainly had the opposite effect.
@lordknightalex3 ай бұрын
pro-tip: if you really want to differentiate between a vague concept of "narcissism" and NPD as a stigmatized personality disorger, then just say self-centered or egocentric! grab a thesaurus babes, its ok to just say someone who hurt you was being self-centered
@devonmunn57283 ай бұрын
Exactly. Or just an assh*ole (had to put the asterisk because when writing a comment saying the word sh*it got a "sure you want to post this comment? Maybe edit it" disclaimers 😒)
@popsicle86943 ай бұрын
second this x1000. we can describe the people who hurt us in ways that don’t stigmatize mental health disorders
@dotnothing56203 ай бұрын
often people merely mean selfish, but that doesn't sound sparkly enough.
@beesquestionmark3 ай бұрын
If they do the whole narcissist cycle, is it ok to call them a narcissist then? I got that cycle done to me 3 times by my ex till I caught on and dumped him.
@withyoctopus3 ай бұрын
Self-centered isn't enough to cover all the behaviors. There's future-faking, projection, gaslighting, absolute lack of empathy, manipulation and hoovering. Also the consistency and intensity of the behaviors just aren't there in the word "self-centered". You can just use the fitting term: narcissism.
@shinekitten76692 ай бұрын
it's a bit ironic how some people will say "narcissists take advantage of other people!" and then turn around and make thousands of dollars off of demonizing people with mental health conditions
@jr5332 ай бұрын
Yes. They can.
@NoName-ze4qnАй бұрын
It's “an eye for an eye” after all
@Re-BourneАй бұрын
Exactly it's so contradicting she wants to make money off of these so called "demons" when she no better she wasting her life and energy on these people anyways 😂
@ArtNLuv444Ай бұрын
@@shinekitten7669 😂🤣😂 you keep telling yourself that victimizing demons makes them less dangerous. 🤡
@samueldeandrade8535Ай бұрын
That's not ironic. That's a delusion you are having. People are NOT really making thousand of dollars doing JUST that. Narcissism is NOT a mental health condition. Is a mental health threat. Narcissists make other people ... themselves! Ffs.
@skitstheskitty27873 ай бұрын
methinks that one of the other side effects of pairing a specific pathology with abuse ala "narcissistic abuse" is that it keeps people from recognizing abusive tendencies within themselves. you are not immune to becoming an abuser, but that is not a death sentence. othering abusive behaviors as something you couldn't possibly do because you don't share the pathology is legitimately harmful
@unfortunatelyiamsane2 ай бұрын
so true. works to separate from “the other”
@silvertoadstool12323 күн бұрын
YOU PUT IT IN WORDS!
@Fsjdkejdnekwjdn5 күн бұрын
Thank you so much for this
@LittleBlackFoxInali3 ай бұрын
Hey remember a decade ago when people armchaired autism and treated neurodivergent people as inhuman because of the idea that they had "reduced or lack of empathy"? Anyways. This comment section is gonna be a fascinating artifact to look at in 2034.
@devonmunn57283 ай бұрын
It tends to be the same shit. Especially with other Neurodivergent folks demonizing folks with NPD or even other Cluster B disorders basically forms a hierarchy of the "good" and "bad" kind of neurodivergent
@JT00073 ай бұрын
Fascinating because people are now waking up to narcissists and in 10 years it’ll be taught about in schools so people don’t get suckered into being with narcs anymore 🫡🇺🇸🇬🇧
@LittleBlackFoxInali3 ай бұрын
@@JT0007 I hope you find the self-awareness you desperately need.
@cw20103 ай бұрын
@@JT0007what the fuck are you talking about
@Sad_bumper_sticker.3 ай бұрын
Logigal Falkacy! No comparrison to autism and NPD. Clinical NPD is the uncontrollable addiction to being emotionally abusive to those closest to them. Intellectuslly and morally dishonest to relativise being EXTREMELY EMOTIONSLLY ABUSIVE where it is pathological and harms the mental health of loved ones often causing COTSD not unlike domestic violence victims. Clinical experts have studied NPD individuals for decades, so false analogy to “armchair diagnoses” or misdiagnosis of Autism.
@Orochimaruswife13 ай бұрын
Pathologizing abuse not only stigmatizes mental illness and personality disorders, it makes people think "well, I'M not mental ill, i could never abuse someone!" This is coming from someone who was horrifically emotionally, physically, and on a few occasions, borderline sexually abused by their mother, who has a diagnosed personality disorder and is autistic. Guess what? I have the same personality disorder she has, and i might also be autistic. I make the choice not to harm those close to me. Abusing others is a choice, not a personality trait. And people who abuse and never admit it aren't necessarily incapable of self reflection. Humans just hate admitting we're wrong.
@devonmunn57283 ай бұрын
ahem EXACTLY It's the same old tired tropes of villainizing the "other" to prop oneself up, as saying that they're "better" or even "special" when really neurotypical people can be horrible people too. Humans are humans and someone humans are horrible people, no pathologizing needed
@violettracey3 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@larad91803 ай бұрын
I’ve literally seen people say that mentally ill people don’t harm others, people with personality disorders harm others. Like, way to both demonize personality disorders and completely ignore the fact that some people lash out as a result of their own pain.
@devonmunn57283 ай бұрын
@@larad9180 and like neurodivergent folks are more likely to BE victims of abuse then be perpetrators of it. Now yes neurodivergent folks are humans like everyone else and anyone who happens to be neurodivergent who does f*ucked up things should be held accountable for their actions however demonizing whole communities is definitely not the way to go. It's just another form of stigma as well as respectability politics
@violettracey3 ай бұрын
@@larad9180 Wouldn’t a personality disorder be considered a mental illness anyway?
@EH0123 ай бұрын
Words like self-centered, selfish, abusive, cruel, sadistic, unempathetic, antagonistic, hostile - those are all sufficient to describe choices and behaviours without labelling anyone. We DO need to understand abuse and how it it's perpetrated, creating some kind of Big Bad isn't part of that
@TimoDcTheLikelyLad3 ай бұрын
but this is unscientiffic - there are people who may engage in sometime-assholeary and then there is the SC*M who completely has no empathy and fcks up people for own gain. This is a cruical difference which is important to make in order to deal with them accordingly. it is dangerous to relativize it just because people may overuse the term and draw conclusions way to short..
@E4439Qv5Ай бұрын
...ok, but I'm still just gonna label my mother like this.
@bunnybird934220 күн бұрын
All of those are still synonyms for narcissism though
@supayambaek8 күн бұрын
it helps with disambugation and destigmatization of NPD, so best for you to use it. @@bunnybird9342
@V01DV0R35 күн бұрын
@@bunnybird9342 They're literally not. You just want an excuse to hate mentally ill people
@descendingintodreams17683 ай бұрын
Shout it out for the people in the back: people with personality disorders are struggling too. There’s no such thing as a perfect victim or villain. You don’t need to be a narcissist to abuse someone and not all narcissists are abusers. Abuse is abuse. Struggle is struggle.
@ciaraskeleton3 ай бұрын
This. Not all ppl with NPD are abusers and not all abusers have NPD. It's so much more nuanced.
@Fr3nchfrii3 ай бұрын
Here here!! Cheers to the understanding of context, complexity, and the fallacy of dichotomy.
@enricopucci12363 ай бұрын
@@ciaraskeleton do you have any evidence for this?
@EclecticallyEccentric3 ай бұрын
@@enricopucci1236What evidence would you be looking for? Or is your mind already made up?
@faerie59263 ай бұрын
@@ciaraskeleton Agreed! People often forget that society itself plays a role in abuse, like in the past when being a controlling husband was normalized. Not all of those people could've had a disorder. Hell, what's considered a disorder is also dependent on what a society thinks is normal- even the DSM5 has certain societal exceptions that disqualify someone from having that disorder.
@MiriamClairify3 ай бұрын
What I'd really like to see in everyday speech is describing people as manipulative, as bullies, as abusive, as *doing specific things wrong* that *anyone might do regardless of mental health.* Is my mom a narcissist? That's hard to say. Did my mom do something manipulative? That's much easier to evaluate and gives you more practical information tbh.
@Daiwie4422 күн бұрын
In cases of singular events, this is fine, but when it's concerning a lengthy relationship, like spouse or parent, the word narcissistic is really valuable, descriptively speaking.
@JHJHJH3 ай бұрын
One thing that's perhaps important to clarify, is that an NPD diagnosis (just like all other personality diagnoses) isn't just about checking those nine boxes in the DSM. First of all, once your actual evaluation gets started, there's a whole lot more boxes to check, but more importantly: the purpose of a diagnosis is to help patients cope with and possibly alleviate difficulties and suffering caused to them personally and/or to people around them. This is not just what makes the diagnosis functional; it's literally what the diagnosis is for. The diagnosis does effectively mean that NPD traits are considered undesireable, at least in a clinical sense, but that's not the same thing as categorizing someone as a "bad person." On the contrary, an NPD diagnosis helps us think of the patient as suffering the consequences of an adverse environment, among other things. If anything, this attempts to replace the overly simplistic idea that they're simply a "bad person." But I definitely agree that the dehumanizing pop psych gone haywire online is a problem.
@hurricanerae3 ай бұрын
Exactly this! I feel like I'm constantly clarifying to people what a diagnosis is in a clinical sense. People really overly equate them to a personality test rather than a tool to help treat people who are experiencing very real, difficulties that affect their ability to function.
@personmcdudeguy3 ай бұрын
aaa
@aliceliddell84133 ай бұрын
i agree with everything you said except the last sentence, we wouldn't have crazy people without pop psych
@siobhanhogan44953 ай бұрын
The "average" person isn't a clinician so the chances for misinterpreting information to confirm their own bias is higher. I wonder if changing the language from "narcissist" which carries a negative connotation to something neutral might deter the "average" person from misinterpretation?
@Lilnbitchy2 ай бұрын
No real malignant narcissist. Will ever EVER get diagnosed. The true psychopaths will never be caught.
@ann0nmusic_3 ай бұрын
Narcissistics don't actually love themselves. They hate themselves so much its all they can think about
@theaureliasys63623 ай бұрын
Which is also how they are most vulnerable to abuse.
@mavohq3 ай бұрын
@@MPR2007they can be both, just like any other person
@jojoeljefe3 ай бұрын
@@MPR2007watch the video? wut ur doing is quite literally what is trying to broken down. conflating "the abuser " with "the narcissist" is not helpful.
@christiangreen23243 ай бұрын
Damn right, I definitely do hate myself
@EroticInferno3 ай бұрын
And they’re worried that everyone else will some day see that and abandon them. In many, many cases it’s self-loathing.
@basicjenkins3 ай бұрын
I have bipolar I and became genuinely distressed at one point because of how many boxes I ticked in the covert category when depressed and communal when I'm manic. I became legitimately concerned that I'd duped people into thinking I have a "good" mental illness when I actually had a "bad" one, for some reason characterising NPD as "bad" specifically because of damaging and superficial content.
@fieryrebirth3 ай бұрын
What sucks is that narcissism and antisocial personalities can be hard to differentiate in our materialistic society, as such society does not value humanity at all.
@leporiaantic3 ай бұрын
Period.
@derpkipper3 ай бұрын
What is the point of saying "materialistic society" in this context. It adds no extra meaning and using such a strange buzzword like this sounds pretentious
@leporiaantic3 ай бұрын
@@derpkipper Because "materialistic" is a quality of society. Society doesn't have to be materialistic, it's just an emphasized quality. "Materialistic" is an adjective. You put that before a noun and it describes something. I have not seen the buzzwords "materialistic society" anywhere else, have you? If you are going to bat for semantics, maybe think a little before you post.
@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt10233 ай бұрын
@@derpkipper You have lived your entire life in the US, right?
@devonmunn57283 ай бұрын
Especially under the capitalist and colonialist frameworks that sees human lives as labor to make profit off of
@Iratepandabear3 ай бұрын
Ppl really be blaming people with personality disorders for everything wrong with the world like neurotypical people are incapable of being assholes. Sometimes people are just mean!!! And the reason isn't related to them being a "dark empath" or whatever, it's just them choosing to be mean
@jazmineraymond74953 ай бұрын
Yeah, you can call an abuser an abuser without diagnosing them.
@nopenope55612 ай бұрын
@@jazmineraymond7495im screenshotting this for later reference cuz you hit the nail on the head
@caitymullen17762 ай бұрын
People with certain personality disorders are extra dangerous to be in positions of power because of their lack of empathy. They will sabotage someone to get what they want with no remorse. It's important to be on the lookout for this, because you can not treat them like you would other people.
@Nebukanezzer2 ай бұрын
Actually I would say that. I think being evil is itself a personality disorder. It is not normal almost definitionally, and it absolutely causes problems for the person and society at large, and that's how we have come to define mental illnesses. If you take that as a personal attack, that's your problem for being overly sensitive and picking up criticism of yourself where none was actually being given. And if you interpret this as saying "if you have a mental illness, you're evil" then you need to go back to school until you figure out basic logic, because all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
@AHAHAHHAHA2 ай бұрын
@@Nebukanezzer a disorder is a deviation from the norm.Most people aren’t perfect but the average person isn’t evil either.However,we are all capable of evil deeds and that extends to whole nations at a time.People can be made to have evil beliefs and therefore act evil.Does this mean they have disorders?Or is it just another way to utilise traits humans already have,even if unethically?Was something medically wrong with people who burned witches and had slaves?Those behaviours WERE the norm back then.So all those examples of evil are hard to classify as a disorder since then the very fragile state of being “good” hardly looks like the base of human nature
@nobodyimportant19683 ай бұрын
FINALLY SOMEONE IS TALKING ABOUT THE NARCISSISM CONTENT INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX FINALLY
@nobodyimportant19683 ай бұрын
i wish people would just talk about the cycle of abuse without dressing it up in terms they barely understand. it can hurt victims and their ability to accurately comprehend what is going on around them, because the buzzwords around narcissism are often sold as universally applicable truths, and they _are_ really comforting and cathartic for someone to hear - but they're not universal to every situation. they're a band-aid solution, not a true one.
@kmcq6923 ай бұрын
So necessary. Absolutely.
@saltiestsiren3 ай бұрын
There are a few other creators who have talked about it too
@Sarah-with-an-H3 ай бұрын
There are some other great channels with nuanced views on this subject. Tim Fletcher and heal NPD are just two channels that offer more nuance.
@migspeculates3 ай бұрын
Psychology has always been coopted by the unwashed masses for 1. coping with difficult situations and people, 2. justifying their shitty behaviors
@Pha_Kiew3 ай бұрын
Narcissism is rooted deep within wounded insecurities they likely refused to address nor aware of. I'm glad to watch a video like this which paints a narcissist in a human light.
@Rissa_13223 ай бұрын
So. We"re pretty sure my father is an actual diagnosable narcissist. But as someone who's autistic and sick of hearing that autistic people are assholes or use their diagnosis as an excuse to be assholes, I'm fully aware narcissism is not what makes my father a shitty person. He just actively chooses to do the shitty thing at every opportunity and just as you can have a diagnosis and learn not to do that, you can be perfectly fine and still do it. Distancing ourselves from certain people by deciding they're not human keeps us blind to stuff we might need to be vigilant about in ourselves, I.e. I could never be that much of a jerk because I'm not a narcissist. Like yes actually, you can. Learn to see it so you can own it and fix it if it happens.
@DaughterofDiogenes3 ай бұрын
Exactly. I have AuDHD and am basically a big goofy teddy bear. My ex is likely NPD or bipolar or whatever I’ll never know ow because he refuses to go to therapy for any reason. The only thing I need to know is that he chose to be the absolute most awful husband again and again for 10 years nonstop and blamed me for all of it whilst also somehow saying he knew it was all him. 🤷♀️🤷♀️. As a person who has lived with him for 10 years he certainly seems to love himself more than any other person on earth. He is always first even when he lets someone go ahead. Trust you will be paying for it on the backend.
@user-bn2st5kx8h2 ай бұрын
No you can't...if you could then you would understand how they think and would be able to defend yourself.because we are from two different worlds thats why we can't understand narcissists...because the way they think it's alien to us Those thoughts never crossed our mind and to be more precise we never felt these feelings thats why we can never think how they think Like if I m a straight man I can't understand the attraction to men If I love animals and the earth I can never understand someone who enjoys destroying If I m not a masochist I can't understand how ppl like pain and sexual humiliation .i dunno that feeling so I cant know how they think either If I m not a pedophile.....
@DaughterofDiogenes2 ай бұрын
@@user-bn2st5kx8h dang. You are so right. I spent like a half hour with my therapist being completely gobsmacked by her explanation that people can lie to themselves so thoroughly that it’s like they are delusional but they aren’t. To me it’s like, how can I perceive something that didn’t happen. How can I mix up words so much and lie to myself so long that I actually am no longer in touch with what is real. My mom is like this real bad I actually just had to cut her off because she was sucking too much mental power from me. It’s too hard being around people who are basically in delulu land.
@tobydandelion3 ай бұрын
When doing research into my own neurological health, I realized a ton of 'narcissistic' traits are easily explained by traumatized low/mid-support needs ASD. Or are just traits neurotypicals just find annoying. Stinks of the adult form of 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder' (aka, 'i-give-up-on-trying-to-understand-this-child's-experience' disorder). Edit: YES, I love how you pointed out that the literal criteria are assuming intent of actions one might be powerless to control. Any disorder being marked by 'unwillingness' rather than 'inability' is ridiculous.
@magnoliaskogen3 ай бұрын
"'i-give-up-on-trying-to-understand-this-child's-experience' disorder" yes!! ODD is used to excuse the adults in children's lives from actually listening and being curious
@nina-mill3 ай бұрын
That last sentence goes hard
@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt10233 ай бұрын
In older, undiagnosed autistic generations, where self-denial and strict masking could lead to a fake / Potemkin persona, pushing that model of coping on one's undiagnosed autistic children could create generational trauma. Depending on the degree and intensity of the demands on the child to mask, it could become outright child abuse, though I am sure there were milder cases, too, and some elder autistics can do the work of discovering and accepting themselves and apologizing and making amends to their children, for example, when their grandchildren get diagnosed. My father was most likely ADHD+SAD, my mother most likely autistic. I, a tail-end boomer, was both beaten, berated and pestered at home and in school for behaving "wrong" (toe-walking, failing eye-contact, food aversions, refusing "neat and girly enough" clothes, being "weird," etc.). I got diagnosed AutDHD after I turned 40. My firstborn is also AutDHD, my youngest ADHD. My father thankfully died young. My mother reacted with anger when I told her that we had started to seek a diagnosis for the firstborn and myself. When both our ADHD diagnoses were established, I told her about them. She said "Aha," changed the subject and never mentioned ADHD or neurodivergence again. So when the youngest kid got their ADHD dx and we got our autism dxs a few years later, I didn't even bother to mention them. Both my parents were (and my mother still is) the most deeply unhappy and unauthentic people that I have ever known. They have both always been in strict denial about that anything concerning themselves or their offspring could be unusual or not "normal." Both were certainly traumatized as children, and they were also traumatizing to have as parents. Sometimes it's a both - and dynamic. For an abused, neglected and/or unaccepted child it doesn't really matter what lies behind the ill treatment. Personally, I don't care if the abuse was "narcissistic" or "sadistic" or "sociopathic" or something else - the operative term was abuse. I have rather been focusing on healing since 1990.
@JoeyisDREADful3 ай бұрын
Same! I used to worry I was a narcissist, particularly when I was being emotionally abused because I'd be accused of many "narcissistic" traits and behaviors, and genuinely was concerned what if they're right? After I got diagnosed ASD it all made sense. Tbh, I was pretty pissed when I got diagnosed. Like so many people made me feel SO bad about myself and I worried so much about whether I was an inherently bad person but the whole time I was just a little brain-weird and getting judged so hard for it. Messed up.
@shulamay3 ай бұрын
Misdiagnosys exists. That doesn't mean narcissism isn't a real thing.
@incanthatus81823 ай бұрын
Our dad has NPD and he was extremely abusive towards us in our childhood, which is why we developed DID. Our partner now as well has NPD and they're the healthiest relationship we've ever had 😊 They're incredibly loving and sweet and supportive. Of course they have their struggles as anyone with a lot of trauma probably has, but they've never been abusive. We think that the main difference between them and our dad and what's the "real" cause of most abuse, we think, is that our dad believed that he had the right to control us. This dynamic of power over and ownership that gets promoted by our society is the driving force behind all sorts of horror. When you own something and think that you have a right to this thing working according to your wishes, it's only "reasonable" to use force if it doesn't.
@devonmunn57283 ай бұрын
Plus in a patriarchal society men are taught to view themselves as having the right to control others
@bernicegoldham15093 ай бұрын
Yeah. Good luck and be careful.
@EclecticallyEccentric3 ай бұрын
I've got BPD and one of my close friends is in the process of getting diagnosed as a system. They also have BPD, and while some of their alters have more symptoms than others, overall there's more overlap in trauma than I expected. We have some similar experiences with dissociation, lack of emotional regulation, and emotional flashbacks. I think my dad had BPD, but it skewed more narcissistic, so it's possible it was NPD. Understanding that neither them nor myself are the same as the people who hurt us was a massively important part of self-awareness. Like you guys, my friends and I both had fathers who felt entitled, like they owned us, though they differed in the kind of control they used. Parents who don't view children as people will always be a huge contributor to childhood trauma. And unfortunately, you're right that society seems to accept it. I hope your relationship continues to thrive. I'm not sure where you guys are in the process of healing or what the end goal is, but I wish you the best in it. ❤
@AnimosityIncarnate3 ай бұрын
@@EclecticallyEccentric if you look at the literature, men with BPD are going to come out differently. Lots of the literature suggests men with bpd often times don't make it passed their teens. If they do, it's very similar to Anakin Skywalker. The event that killed most men, caused a severe antisocial and Narcissistic trait overlay, but it's not actual NPD. Men will just have more sociopathic and complete detachment, due to being a man with emotional needs at all is already frowned upon, bpd emotional needs for men are just seen as needy, weak and entitled. Even from BPD women 😂
@EclecticallyEccentric3 ай бұрын
@@AnimosityIncarnateI've read about BPD in men, especially coming across as having more NPD traits. That is one of the reasons I think he likely had BPD, but I understand it's possible it was NPD instead. I'm hesitant to say with certainty as I'm not a mental health professional. My father seemed to switch between cold and detached to warm, but too often that warmth was burning rage. As for viewing male emotions as weak, I will tell you I lost respect for my father as a teenager. I still feared his rage. But I did not respect him. Because I was expected to control my emotions in a way he didn't. I don't believe he was entitled to respect from me at this point. I loved my father, but I hated his hypocrisy. I do feel sorry for him, in a way. I wish he'd sought help and been able to accept he needed it. I definitely agree, culture and the way emotions are viewed in relation to gender is a large part of the problem. I've had close male friends cry around me, and I'm much more comfortable with that than with aggression. I didn't look down on them, but I can't speak for anyone but myself. I likely wouldn't have the same level of care or patience with a man displaying anger in an aggressive way. Unfortunately, anger is what society deems acceptable for men to show.
@AZ-ty7ub3 ай бұрын
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. I've been saying for years that NPD is not "evil person disease" but I always got hit with downvotes and people telling me I'm either a narcisstic abuser myself or an apologist or both. It's completely absurd. Thank you so much.
@rai15782 ай бұрын
Exactly this. That's why im so happy to see someone with a bit of a platform talk about this issue.
@PaniACoCo3 ай бұрын
I once asked in the comments of this psychologist's comment something like "What should I do if I see those traits in myself? How do I stop?" And his answer was very hopeless, almost saying narcissists are just unfixable. That attitude is scary. Specially considering how the people I see being accused or that or manipulation and so on, are usually neurodivergent and have other issues.
@Chelaxim2 ай бұрын
If all the experts have the same opinion and survivors keep telling you the same thing maybe you should listen.
@PaniACoCo2 ай бұрын
@@Chelaxim I am just wondering if you watched the video. Also, if I asked a therapist for help and they said I'm not fixable, what would listening to them mean?
@TravellerZasha2 ай бұрын
@@PaniACoCo I can relate i feel bad for people with NPD cause for me having BPD I was actually told that I could treat them with DBT, medications, CBT etc. if you actually are wondering how to help it i'd actually suggest treatments for BPD maybe that might help as BPD can have a mix of traits from NPD and ASD and I feel a lot of it would help. I would also suggest focusing on your actions rather than your intentions. Imo it's okay if you are doing something good for selfish reasons cause you're doing something good. My tips would be Journal a lot, look up DBT and CBT journaling techniques, write down what symptoms you are worried about and what causes or "triggers" them, write down the accessions and see if they really are you being manipulative or you being blamed. I also agree to some degree to the comment in that sometimes you have to take critique of others opinions on where to fix but sometimes people aren't aware that they can't have toxic traits too and just blame personality disorders cause personality disorders have some bad traits. Oh, I also suggest looking up healthy narcissism too and remind yourself of your good traits too. In my opinion you can't be fully cured of your personality disorder but if your brain wired to develop NPD I believe you can unwire it in a way that can make you healtier. If NPD's are unfixable that BPD's like me are unfixable too apparently which I disagree. And the fact you are aware to ask this makes me believe you can be fixed in a way.
@PaniACoCo2 ай бұрын
@@TravellerZasha sorry for the way I phrased it. I'm pretty sure I don't have that, just adhd and depression. I worded it that way then because I wanted to see the response. I also believe that actions matter more than what you feel.
@Psychedlia982 ай бұрын
@@Chelaxim but that's the thing, there is no consensus and our understanding of this personality order is changing. I don't care about the victims insofar on how to treat people with said disorder.
@sammylincroft3 ай бұрын
I wish all these creators would just start talking about abuse without the psychological labels. Because anyone of any neurotype can be abusive and the signs of abuse (DARVOS) can be picked up regardless of the specific neurotypes involved. It would save a lot of abilism and also help more people.
@KiyoAloto3 ай бұрын
are you a psychiatrist?
@user-bn2st5kx8h2 ай бұрын
Some do Some categorise Others believe its a sliding scale from a good person to pure evil
@XplreliАй бұрын
Pancakes and waffles are both breakfast foods that you pour syrup on top of, but they don’t have the same name. Why aren’t waffles and pancakes labeled the same? Why don’t we JUST call them them both breakfast food? It’s because there’s slight subtle differences between the two. Being specific about where abuse is coming from and why it’s happening is not a bad thing. If a narcissist is abusing you because they have NPD then that very much is narcissistic abuse.
@Xplreli22 күн бұрын
@@josh___something yes it does matter to be specific because the specific type of abuse is specifically coming from the NPD traits and symptoms. Anyone who says otherwise hasn’t done enough research on NPD and what it looks like and how it affects the people around them. If you wanted to specifically label abuse from other types of disorders, then you could do that as well. No one is stopping you. But to compare NPD to things like BPD just doesn’t make much sense because they’re too completely different disorders on a completely different playing field. Whereas if a BPD person harms you, it’s not because they lack empathy and it’s not because they genuinely want to harm you and derive joy from it, it’s a survival mechanism and a trauma response. Just because NPD also derives from trauma doesn’t mean that the core root of why these symptoms are happening are the same. There is a mental disconnect in these people and similarly in antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy, and sociopathy. I personally don’t even think BPD should be categorized as a personality disorder. NPD, antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy, and sociopathy are completely different than BPD. You have to look at the specific nuance parts about each disorder and why they are the way they are and how they look in real life. The root cause of why they act the way they do. Being specific about the type of abuse absolutely does help. It helped me a lot. It helped me to know why I was being treated the way I was and where it was coming from. If I had just labeled it as regular abuse I probably wouldn’t have understood it the way that I understand it now. I probably would’ve just written it off like I had my entire life anytime. I experienced abuse and thinking that it was no big deal and I just needed to get over it. Being able to be specific has given me a greater understanding to now protect myself from people like that in the future and notice the patterns when they happen again. The abuse that I experienced from my mother because of her bipolar disorder was completely different than the abuse that I experienced from my father because of his narcissistic tendencies. They are two completely different types of abuse. My father’s abuse was much more insidious. I can look back at what my mom did to me and realize that it was because she was unmedicated and because she didn’t know how too regulate her anger. My father on the other hand, his abuse came from the fact that he genuinely didn’t see me as human. He derived pleasure out of me being his supply.
@divacandyful22 күн бұрын
@@Xplreli BPD isn't like sooooo different. at times when BPD split, they can show lack of empathy and lash out. BPD are very impulsive similar to ASPD. BPD is a personality disorder because it fits under the cluster b diagnosis of being a dramatic, unpredictable and emotionally intense mental disorder.
@LilFeralGangrel3 ай бұрын
The constant demonization of Personality Disorders is disgusting.
@EclecticallyEccentric3 ай бұрын
The funny thing is, clusters A and C don't receive anywhere near as much attention as Cluster B. Cluster B is the "dramatic, obvious" one. It's the one easiest to demonize. Of course there are people in it who are truly terrible people, but people are individuals.
@Brxwn93 ай бұрын
I wonder why NPD is demonized…maybe it’s cause how many of them behave the exact same and abuse their spouses/loved ones?? Oh nah, definently not!!! 🤪🤪🤪🤪
@Brxwn93 ай бұрын
@@EclecticallyEccentricAnd most of them all behave the same (ASPD and NPD). BPD has many differences in representation and the harm is mainly internal vs external, so clearly the externally harming one’s (ASPD NPD) are seen as evil. Like how is this hard to understand? Most people with ASPD and NPD are abusive to their inner circle. BPD may be as well, but they, unlike ASPD and NPD tend to usually feel a deep sense of regret and pain. Even thought they might do it again.. Literally why are we excusing NPD 😭 Like plss.. They should be held accountable, all PD, especially the outward harming individuals, regardless of which PD.
@annajensen73603 ай бұрын
@@Brxwn9 Eclectically Eccentric literally didn't excuse anything. They said "people are individuals" and you took that as some kind of attack? I find your language disturbing. How is the statement "most ___ all behave the same" EVER excusable to apply to a minority group, like literally replace it with a gender, ethnicity, or "socially acceptable" disability and see how that sounds. "Most people with aspd and npd are abusive" umm citation please? What's your source? Furthermore what are you suggesting to do with that information, get people treatment and help so they can stop with the abusive patterns of behavior or throw them in the garbage as your tone seems to imply. Like what does "be[ing] held accountable" mean if not abandoning and avoiding a group of people like the plague on the basis of their disability. Also how fucking dare you just say that an entire group of people are incapable of feeling regret/pain. You are dehumanizing and demonizing a group of people. To be clear I advocate for treating abuse as abuse, a horrible thing which must be stopped, that the abuser is to blame for and the victim owes their abuser nothing. I hate abusers. I am just skeptical of your claim that sufferers of certain disorders are inherently abusive and evil. Treat people like individual people, judge them by their ACTIONS and not a disability they didn't choose to have. Yes, disorders impact people's behaviors, yes being aware of a person's mental illness helps identify warning signs, but to call a group, which DEFINITELY CONTAINS innocent people "inherently abusive" is incredibly harmful. I don't know your politics but I'm making the guess that you aren't a homophobe. Don't you remember how just a few decades ago there were all these "facts" "proving" that gay people are dangerous, and how that all turned out to be bullshit? Don't you see you're being tricked into bigotry?
@larad91803 ай бұрын
@@Brxwn9There’s a difference between having no tolerance for bad behavior and writing a person off as inhuman the moment they have a diagnosis that’s stigmatized.
@janeparker96633 ай бұрын
I have OCD and before I was diagnosed I would watch dr ramani videos and obsess over whether or not I was a DIRTY NARCISSIST. I would try as hard as I could to be an “empath” and it led to so many abusive relationships in my life. Striving to be an “empath” is so bad for u
@janeparker96633 ай бұрын
I had to unsubscribe from her cause all I would do was watch her and go… i am disgusting how do I fix this i must count to 8 several times right now
@janeparker96633 ай бұрын
The only reason i dont do this now is bc 150mg luvox and 200mg magnesium lets go
@thatsdisco3 ай бұрын
@@janeparker9663 glad you are now at a better place!
@Bridget4President2 ай бұрын
i've said this in another thread but the "empath" thing is what makes me uncomfortable the most about the npd content industrial complex like i want to set aside the rest of the conversation and point out that. like. when i say that i'm not here to dunk on "empaths" for buying into the narrative of being an "empath" i want to make the point that the level to which there is a very clear pipeline around "is insecure about being a narcissist/has trauma around narcissists" that leads directly to a pseudoscientific archetype that often leads people to overestimate their own empathy in an emotional-intuition/theory of mind way while leading them to obsess over hating narcissists has elements of a high-control-group narrative - specific target demographic, in-group and out-group, instilling its members with idealized values and behaviors, etc... fingerpointing at something like that and calling it a "cult" isn't constructive, but i'm really glad you got out, fuck
@1fuitgumy2 ай бұрын
i strongly suspect i have OCD or at the very least obsessive thoughts, and i have fallen into this same trap. it's so horrible
@qwerkywriter71343 ай бұрын
I appreciate your nuanced take with Dr. Ramani. When I was living with an abusive family member, I watched her videos daily because they made me feel seen and gave me a “why” for my family member’s actions. I escaped that situation, and I haven’t really watched her videos since then. I don’t think my family member would be diagnosed with NPD, and he’s probably not even a “narcissist” but the patterns of abuse were similar enough that her advice helped. I think a lot of people feel similarly, her videos are like a form of free therapy for folks in the thick of it. I’ve always had some issues with Dr. Ramani’s approach, but I think she’s probably the best narcissist content creator, and I only ever really watched her. Cant even imagine the hellscape of pop psychology on tiktok
@zazou74573 ай бұрын
I suggest you check out prof. Sam Vaknin, a diagnosed narcisisst university professor. After hearing him youll think dr ramani is even more pop psychology, still very good for the first realisation shocks, but in order to understand narcisissm correctly, vaknin is not to be ignored
@personneici25953 ай бұрын
@@zazou7457 Vaknin is interesting. I take him with a grain of salt too. He sounds very good, cites a lot for sources but do you look them up and analyse them? I don't lol. But his ideas about introjects and how people with NPD think (they don't gaslight, they can't, they believe their own delusions) has helped me to take the behaviour of my abuser and her flying monkeys a lot less personally. His credentials are... interesting
@TimoDcTheLikelyLad3 ай бұрын
@@zazou7457 imaging falling for the words of the bear in his ffing cave... yall literally let NARCS define the discourse?? this is so dangerous jfc!
@hikinmike132 ай бұрын
Dr Ramani has hundreds of clients as well as backed up research. The only thing I heard half way through this was, “in my experience…” I’ll take the research and thousands of hours of experience. While I hear what you’re saying that narcissists are human too, it’s really hard for a lot of people to set MUCH needed boundaries around them. And, while some may change, it’s important for people suckered in by the lies, deceit etc to get clear that maybe for their case, they need to NOT be empathic with the narcissist because they’ve over done it for way to long, have gotten immensely taken advantage of and need to just get away and/or set firm boundaries. I don’t think there’s a narcissistic industrial complex, I think there’s a pandemic of toxic self centeredness and narcissism in the culture, especially in the USA. The popular psychologists or professionals are calling it out and I say thank god. Maybe people will change if most of the population refuses to put up with being treated badly. If they make a bunch of money, good for them. Isn’t that what you’re doing with your channel?!. I don’t think Dr Ramani is like Oprah or anything though! I think she’d laugh to know people think she’s getting filthy rich off this.
@shannon33153 ай бұрын
I can understand why Dr. Ramani’s videos are so popular. I once had a friend breakup that went horribly bad. I set a hard boundary while he was treating me badly, and he suddenly unleashed all these insults on me that had to do with a lot of personal things I was going through. It was clear that whenever I talked about any personal pain or hardships, he stocked those things up to use them to hurt me. It didn’t hurt me, I was too freaked out to be hurt. It seemed like a crazy thing to do. I told another friend that I couldn’t understand why someone would do that, and he said “oh well, he’s a narcissist.” After that, if I met someone who manipulated people by pushing at their weaknesses or insecurities, I would say “oh that’s a narcissist” and stay away from them. But eventually, through working on my boundaries in therapy, I realized that the reason to stay away from those people wasn’t because of some diagnosis that I made up. It was because they were jerks. I don’t like people who are manipulative, and I shouldn’t hang out with people I don’t like. I think Dr. Ramani is successful in part because it’s so much easier to say “stay away from this person because they are evil” than it is to examine why you get into bad relationships. But also, this doesn’t mean anyone should flip this and start diagnosing people who follow Dr. Ramani as people with boundaries issues. Sometimes people get into a bad relationship for no other reason than bad luck, not everything is a pathological issue.
@Daiwie4422 күн бұрын
I've also watched a bit of Dr. Ramani, and she's often stated that narcissism isn't a diagnosis. It's the same as calling them jerks. You didn't make up a diagnosis, you made an evaluation of their personality, which you also do when you call them a jerk. Finding out why you get into bad relationships is not something you can do through a video, but recognizing narcissistic traits is. Also, the word narcissist is valuable cuz it's more descriptive of the manipulative aspects of people.
@silversam3 ай бұрын
That headline, "Therapy speak is everywhere, but it may make us less empathetic" was jarring but resonated with something I've noticed in myself & others: a inclination to categorizing people, either for how they might hurt us, help us, even be useful to us, etc. And given practice, it becomes habitual to the point of making judgments at a glance, typically as a defensive tactic. I dunno. Just something that jumped out at me 😅 This was great btw
@dinosaysrawr3 ай бұрын
Humans are gonna human. I think it's wonderful *in theory* that many immensely-helpful psychological concepts have bled into the general consciousness and that people feel more comfortable disclosing their struggles and diagnoses---but, in practice, this has resulted in some people misusing or abusing these terms and ideas and others taking cruel advantage of other people's sympathy, compassion, and desire to understand.
@sarah309323 ай бұрын
I so appreciate you making this video. I’m a licensed therapist who is diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. One of my biggest sources of distress in life has come from coming to terms being labeled BPD…and that is specifically because for my entire career I have heard what my therapist peers say about people with personality disorders “behind the scenes” Kylee really hit the nail on the head when she shared why the stigma is so unnecessarily difficult to navigate. I feel the most important thing you said was in your voiceover note about how people who have been abused don’t owe their abusers anything, and deserve help and safety. And with that said, trying to paint people with broad brushes and limit them down to a label strips them of their humanity- and that’s not making any of us safer. I especially appreciate you being willing to tackle such a potential backlash inducing topic in such a responsible and nuanced way- in a way more responsible way than I see most content creators licensed to practice therapy exercising. That is notable… Thank you! ❤
@e.s.r58092 ай бұрын
If you're alright with commenting on it- I'm not a therapist, but I've observed BPD seems disproportionately diagnosed in young, neurodivergent women who've experienced early life trauma. *Every* person I know with a BPD diagnosis was later diagnosed with ADHD/autism and PTSD/CPTSD. Their BPD diagnoses prevented them accessing timely, appropriate treatment, often for years. I guess my question is, as an actual therapist do you think BPD is a distinct phenomenon? Is there a possibility BPD is just kind of "profiling" patients who express trauma in a specific way? And if not, what's the difference?
@Lala-bobloblaw3 ай бұрын
I often think narcissistic tendencies develop from heavily toxic and abusive environments which is sad in itself. You’ve been abused and now everyone wants to judge you for micro aggressions based on a label you were given to help you manage your life. Doesn’t seem fair
@IshtarNike3 ай бұрын
Depends. Sometimes they're macroaggressions or gaslighting your romantic partner. There's a huge lack of nuance on this issue. But for people with truly highly narcissistic personalities they're definitely not micro aggressions.
@Lala-bobloblaw3 ай бұрын
@@IshtarNike I think people who are narcissistic and are getting help deserve support. People who engage in aggressive behaviour while taking no accountability are often the ones who get negative attention and deservedly so.
@faerie59263 ай бұрын
Personality disorders are often formed from trauma, so you're definitely on the mark there.
@wayfaringspacepoet3 ай бұрын
@@IshtarNikecan you clarify which definition of gaslighting you're using here? thank you
@enricopucci12363 ай бұрын
@@Lala-bobloblawwhere in the world do you see narcissists getting help?
@kittyphinex71152 ай бұрын
I think the problem we should all remember is no matter the mental health issue, if you don't take care of yourself and listen to those you hurt, you will continue to hurt them and eventually stop caring that you do. Because they're the problem, not you. There's different levels of pain. And in those levels you could accidentally hurt someone. But that can be fixed. It's when you use your pain to hurt others that it might be too late to fix it because you've hurt them too much and they might not want to be around you anymore. That's when YOU need to decide what is greater. The pain YOU feel? Or the pain you inflict from it. That's what I think makes genuine awful people. When you hurt people and stop caring you're hurting people
@aimeestenekes37462 ай бұрын
Could not have said this any better. I 1000% agree!
@KyleeRackam3 ай бұрын
Thanks for having me in the video! I'm just sitting down to watch it now, but I'm looking forward to it. I love that more creators are starting to show a more humanizing lens to NPD, opposed to demonizing it.
@maximon30963 ай бұрын
luv ur tiktoks!! was literally so excited to see u as a guest in this vid
@missdiorfairy3 ай бұрын
What really bothers me is that it's become a buzzword. Literally any time someone comes out with an ab*se story they call them a narcissist and I'm like bro, 😭 especially when they're not straight or cis. Not every single person on the internet is a narcissist and you don't even know them! I myself had a brother that we believe to have npd and it was different because i lived with him. I also used to believe one of my parents was a narcissist until I got told more lore and I realized they were just messed up 🤷🏼♀ yall gotta stop calling everyone with self esteem a narcissist and stop calling strangers that in general.
@IshtarNike3 ай бұрын
I mean most personality disorders, especially NPD are believed to stem from abuse. So both things could be true. Your parent could be a narcissist. It could be a result of their experiences. It usually is.
@faerie59263 ай бұрын
Agreed- like certain people will use it as a buzzword when referring to trans people because apparently wanting to be comfortable in your own body is selfish.
@Aelffwynn3 ай бұрын
That reminds me of the time I was watching a YT video where the creator had used a very obvious blurring filter. A lot of people in the comments kept going, "Wow! You look great! Must be because you're so unproblematic!" All I said was, "Guys, in this video he's obviously using a filter that erases every single line on his face lol. I think he looks good in general, but come on." And I immediately had a few people respond with, "you're a narcissist!" It was very weird.
@NoStressNoTime2 ай бұрын
Narcissism is a overused buzzword it can buzzzzz off 🐝
@aarnilapsi93362 ай бұрын
One of my best friends is a narcissist. He's written a book about it, multiple even. Dude's cousin is one of the most famous people in my country, which is why I presume he was bullied in the small village they both came from. Great guy. A positive force in the community, tries his best to encourage others and to make life epic. Sometimes he takes pride in "knowing the best for others", for example if I have a concern, he may voice it out for louder, or tells me as a younger friend that he'll protect me. On occasion he gets snappy or mean, but calms down if you seem more rational. He keeps getting caught in his grandiose fantasies only to get severely depressed when they don't come true. Highly worrysome, tbh. He will never grow up to be as famous as the most famous guy in the entire country, and I think he hasn't fully admitted it. That's why he always tries through new projects or telling the press a different story, which are all quite obvious if you know him. On occasions, he comes off as childish in his creative work and essays. He pretends to be big and powerful and edgy, but sometimes it's like a child throwing a tantrum. Sometimes he texts me all depressed because I have more followers than him. It isn't his fault, but it breaks my heart. I've had to tell multiple people to keep an eye on him just so he keeps alive. I love him and wish the best for his development and recovery, and the same also for his cousin, whose last album sucked btw.
@juliadrake2072 ай бұрын
books??? that’s so cool.. and i’d imagine having a super famous family member would make even a non npd person feel insecure from time to time honestly
@aarnilapsi93362 ай бұрын
@@juliadrake207 Definitely. I myself have had a relative be a successful singer decades back. It alters everything, if not universally then in that specific area. Luckily we don't share a last name.
@kaleidojess2 ай бұрын
The problem is: there are too many non professionals and especially people who haven't sufficiently researched, talking about narcissism. It clouds the waters.
@luxceleste3 ай бұрын
I observed that if you put the key word narcissist. it gains a lot of viewers. And sometimes, even psychiatrists or well known therapists talked about the how to deal with narcissistic person but never asking the questions "Why?" The only person that shed lights in to being narcissistic is Dr Gabor Mate... According to him, they are just very traumatized people... I've been thinking about this, this past few months
@saltydinonuggies18413 ай бұрын
Yeah most mental illnesses come from a mix of genetics and environment. We don’t know the exact cause of most mental illnesses currently, that’s not really something we could ethically test, but that’s the best guess we have based on the research we have right now. That includes personality disorders. Including NPD and ASPD. As someone who’s been through severe abuse and likely has a PD, I can attest that it most likely is trauma for most people. But that is just an opinion without research.
@luxceleste3 ай бұрын
@@saltydinonuggies1841 100%
@jentlefer2 ай бұрын
I'm an incredibly traumatized person, however, I do not abuse people emotionally, mentally, or physically. Trauma is no excuse to abuse others. We shouldn't be excusing people's damaging behaviour.
@luxceleste2 ай бұрын
@@jentlefer you are awsome for not inflictiing pain to other people. however, no matter how much i dont wanna say this. there is no black and white. only shades of gray. people's damaging behaviour exists for a "reason". and maybe when we ask the question "why"? then the start of stopping the cycle. no matter how hard it is to understand and felt like theres no justice
@emma79332 ай бұрын
@@jentlefer i feel like acknowledging some people's trauma manifests behaviours that can harm other people as well as themselves isn't "making excuses" though? "i understand why you ended up doing this" is not the same thing as saying "i will never stand up for myself when you do hurtful things and act like they are a good thing". pretending the only reason people hurt others is because they are conciously trying to do so and that this is something only a subsect of people are capable of helps no one.
@certaindeathawaits3 ай бұрын
As a narcissist, thank you for making this video. A lot of personality disorder circles focus on activism in such a way that we say “don’t use the word narcissistic, it’s ableist to people with NPD” instead of saying “maybe there shouldn’t be something called Narcissistic Personality Disorder”
@certaindeathawaits3 ай бұрын
We have people speaking about it, but it seems like it’s only people with personality disorders talking about the issue.
@alejericho3 ай бұрын
Shout out to that one tumblr post that goes "Doctors could name a disorder "Whiny B*tch Disorder" and I assure you that the reaction in the ND community at large would not be "what the f*ck is wrong with the psychiatric field and how they think of mentally ill people, we should not allow that name and diagnosis", but rather "PSA: Please don't use 'whiny' and 'b*tch' as insults, that's ableist against people with Whiny B*tch Disorder!"".
@alejericho3 ай бұрын
Shout out to that one tumblr post that goes "Doctors could name a disorder "Whiny B--ch Disorder" and I assure you that the reaction in the ND community at large would not be "what the f--k is wrong with the psychiatric field and how they think of mentally ill people, we should not allow that name and diagnosis", but rather "PSA: Please don't use 'whiny' and 'b--ch' as insults, that's ableist against people with Whiny B--ch Disorder!"".
@ahmadalimi97843 ай бұрын
@@alejerichoYikes all around
@TravellerZasha2 ай бұрын
Agreed I feel bad for people with NPD cause I have BPD with some narcisstic traits and with how much I'm villainized for having such traits I can't imagine how people with NPD deal with it. It just makes people with NPD less likely to get help cause they'll feel like they are the labels others tell them. I also find this very hypocritical how people call personality disorders the toxic abusive ones but yet are verbally abusing us with these labels.
@PokhrajRoy.3 ай бұрын
People use the pronoun ‘I’ and there’ll be someone with a ‘Narcissist’ diagnosis locked and ready.
@basicjenkins3 ай бұрын
Quite literally happened to me over message once and I was so confused because I read the message back and couldn't figure out how I was meant to structure it any differently
@witchcraftandlizardry3 ай бұрын
Are you sure it is ‘People’ and not you? One might say you’re projecting no? Lol
@mookinbabysealfurmittens3 ай бұрын
@@basicjenkins Agree 100%. The "saying 'I' so much" thing is boIoks. It's armchair psychologists who take DSM definitions & break them down by NON-scientific language. Like as if saying "I hope you're feeling better" is 'narcissistic' cos a "normal" [>_>] person would have said instead: "Hopefully you're feeling better." Nvm that's a more passive phrasing, and the _point_ is that you should feel better and you are cared about; these armchair psychs claim that the 2nd, "non-I" way, "you wouldn't putting yourself at the centre, cos *'I'* hope?! Even my feeling better is about YOU??" It's silly, but it's worse than that. People go WAY too far with this stuff, like to a point that can be damaging to interpersonal relationships. I'm watching the video as I type this so not halfway through, but fwiw though I don't like the pathologisation of everything. Like there was a Behind the Bastards pod on some bastard who secretly harmed a lot of people, and the guest, vexed as to why _like that,_ asked the host, "Why woyld be do this? Do you think he did this [awful thing] cos of being kind of narcissistic, like to be remembered?" (Fwiw, context clues made it obvious he meant it as the trait descriptor, not as NPD, and further, host Robert shot it down anyway & even noted it's not about having a mental health issue, that seeking "which" is a wasted endeavour.) It's prudent to note that there is a difference between the trait of narcissism and the disorder, NPD, a full-bodied diagnosis well beyond "person has narcissistic traits". (And with an unfortunate name, but that's the DSM. "Personality disorders" is kinda crap, and I don't have one so I'm not taking personal offence.) It's made yet worse by the increasingly bold self-ID narcissists who come out of the woodwork to write essay comments about being maligned for being NPD narcissists is "literally the same as maligning someone for having depression or cancer, but they only do it with NPD". There's a gray area, but it's not the same cos the issue with people who cause harm is the harm they cause, not the idea that they have NPD, and they want to be excused carte blanche, across the board, for the overt harm they cause to others - not recognising that "we can't change who we are, but we can learn to recognise and change behaviours that harm others". True with NPD and "non-pathological" narcissism and depression and anything else, but one is not like the others. The issue is that it's not the same when having been at the hands of a narcissistic betrayer who caused lasting harm and refused to change cos they wouldn't even recognise that they were causing harm. But it's unhelpful to express offence at something no one said, like (to quote one) "I'm sick of everyone saying that all r[SA]ists have NPD!" That was in response to the guest asking if narcissism (not NPD; context clues) might have been behind why a man wronged so many people. No one said "NPD = will SA" is a thing I've never seen or heard anyone say outside that comment alleging it. That said, yeah, we shouldn't be flattening people into caricatures according to which diagnosis they have, or any such narrow category. People just insist on doing that. I talk of narcissists in my life, but I'm talking of the harm they cause c/o narcissistic behaviour & refusal to seek help or even accept they have a problem, nvm should change. There are narcissists I've known who have that insecurity, the "feeling trash so lashing out at others to make them feel like trash", but the problem isn't getting them a diagnosis (if they haven't), it's getting them to stop harming people, and not ending up incapacitated from the defensive wounds endured with every attempt at helping out or even just being a friend to them. It's not the NPD, it's the narcissism, the excuses, the selfishness, the lack of consideration for others... I'm not cutting off someone because they have NPD; I do it for allll the other stuff, cos even I don't deserve such mistreatment. Sorry for rambling.
@mookinbabysealfurmittens3 ай бұрын
@@witchcraftandlizardryLiterally it's an armchair diagnosis thing, notably common in true crime. "Her letter claimed to be about her friend, but note how she starts every sentence with 'I' and talks about _her_ feelings." Like the "I hope you feel better" example in my long ramble above. I don't have NPD, btw, and have suffered at the hands of people who do, so I'm not getting defensive (as in feeling personally attacked)... I guess I am defending OP's post cos it's very normal and you're sounding like the armchair """"experts"""" who jump in like "THERE! NPD! 17/20!" Do you need a mirror, or?
@witchcraftandlizardry3 ай бұрын
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens sorry I thought it was clear I was joking I was gonna use a tone indicator but I thought because I was responding to a joke it would be implied. I was armchair psycho-analyzing but was careful not to use ‘I’ pronoun myself lol but yea I know all about and I’ve noticed a decline in the use of the word where like in 2017 it was a big thing like I noticed ppl have shifted to saying toxic or abusive instead and after I recovered from abuse myself many years ago I am disinterested in the topic and don’t think it’s wrong for ppl to try to understand their experiences but I hate the diagnosing or when true crime throws around psychopath or sociopath because any of these diagnosis don’t inherently make a person evil or bad. I have periods of struggling with empathy cause of my autism but one can choose to do what is socially right like you don’t need to have empathy or guilt remorse etc etc to be a good person and it can really just be a form of neurodivergence and a self aware person does not need to have themselves stigmatized this way just because some are not interested in integrating into society and social stuff etc or something I kind of forget where I was going w this
@wowsometal2 ай бұрын
being scared i was this evil narcissist after watching all this content is what kept me from being honest with doctors and getting my bipolar diagnosis for so long
@PokhrajRoy.3 ай бұрын
Therapyspeak is the bane of our civilisation.
@popstel22863 ай бұрын
I don’t think it’s that bad. It’s just skibidi toilet for a larger demographic
@JaseekaRawr3 ай бұрын
No it's not, you're gaslighting me! >:( (Sorry lol)
@devonmunn57283 ай бұрын
It's more so the general population outside a given community hearing of terms and overusing them so much that they end up getting appropriated in contexts that aren't even actually the correct contexts to use them in
@dizzydawn8623 ай бұрын
This is a new age of education for the masses, we're seeing a lot of people learn new terms, misunderstand them, then correct their misunderstanding in real time.
@dan_asd2 ай бұрын
@@popstel2286 Don't compare skibidi toilet to something that does real harm even if its not rome-destroying-levels-of-harm
@mariahanczewska81093 ай бұрын
As "high functioning autistic"( I don't like that label so much!), I started to be sceptical about types of narcissistic personality, when word "high- functionig" appeared. Also, the DSM's definition sounds a awful lot like definition of autism by neurotypical people- like, it's true to some degree, but... but the symptoms are described by other people, not by "sick" human himself. I often feel angry, because strangers describe autism spectrum as something alien and strange when I'm living with it and it's just... life. I'm kinda interested how "narcissist" would describe himself in context of this medical definition.
@BloomBlanche3 ай бұрын
Exactly! As another autistic person, I immediately empathized with people who have personality disorders because neurotypicals (and sometimes even neurodivergents!) constantly treat us like burdens. It reminds me of the "autistic parents" stereotype. They barely even ask how *we* feel. It's always about how we affect others and never about how we affect ourselves.
@ItsAllNunya2 ай бұрын
Based egotypical(no NPD) realizing the criteria are all about how we affect others not about the internal experience! Thank you!
@herrnarr3577Ай бұрын
it's like all of these symptoms can be categorised and have one root, one cause, which IS the true symptom. instead, this true symptom is broken into small "ordinary" fragments not for you but for *people around you*, which puts doctors (and others) in a comfortable position when they can dismiss a person saying "we're all like this from time to time" (="annoying, difficult and inconvenient"), until your condition is dire. and even they can't afford even a dime of humanity for you, because now you are "dangerous" and "incapable". but of course they want to be superficial, not to help those whose needs and appearances are different from theirs. as it said in my country, nds can only "be pitied or be laughed at". sorry for doomer take maybe.
@annaselbdritt79163 ай бұрын
I used to see those videos and be like "oh no am I a narcissist??" and that was really not a great time, being overly vigilant of my own emotions. EDIT: this was to share that overly vague and generalising pop psychology videos can affect people with anxiety in different ways, and if you experienced something similar you're not alone.
@ookamiblade63183 ай бұрын
If you’re worried about being a narcissist, you probably aren’t, you know lack of empathy being sort of central to the idea.
@annaselbdritt79163 ай бұрын
@@ookamiblade6318 that’s what I concluded too, but you know how the anxious mind can be.
@winter9453 ай бұрын
@@ookamiblade6318NPD is about projecting a perfect self into the world because of how much you hate yourself though? Someone with narcissism can very much be worried about it
@minni_sung94373 ай бұрын
@@ookamiblade6318this is not the take you think it is. A disorder that is largely about needing validation can include needing validation that you are a good and mentally well person. Being obsessed with how you come off includes being obsessed with coming off well. Being insecure of your identity is the core of a large amount of personality disorders. If someone recognizes symptoms in themselves to the point they're worried they have a disorder, even if they conclude they dont have the disorder, it doesn't meant they're "safe" it means there could be some behaviors to work on.
@annaselbdritt79163 ай бұрын
@@minni_sung9437 girl come on
@michaelneedssleep3 ай бұрын
The way she talks about people, presumably with NPD, as if they *are* a disease is very troubling. She conflates narcissism as a trait with the disorder, and makes the former out to be almost worse- they behave this way sometimes because they *are* a (insert variety) narcissist. And this villainizing of so-called narcissists paves way for the hero, the perpetual prey of the narc: the empath. Which isn’t a thing. But you can see why the whole mythology is so seductive. The idea that everyone who’s ever hurt you is inherently evil, and they chose you because you are an inherently pure being of goodness.
@asloii_174924 күн бұрын
The “empath” narcissist!
@saraellwood6303 ай бұрын
I learned about narcissism way back in 2003, during a family counseling appointment. It was another attempt at getting my father to understand and accept his effect on everyone in the family. It didn't work. The counselor did say something though: he was a textbook case of narcissism. I went home and looked it up, and yeah, it seemed very accurate. At first though, being a kid, I didn't care about the label. Knowing what he was never changed what he did. We suffered so much regardless. It wasn't until I was older, living with my own mental illness that ruined my life for years, that I looked at my dad with understanding. We both lost most of our friends, our jobs, our savings, our homes. We were roommates for quite awhile, even if I still couldn't stand being around him long. Now that I have more understanding of neurodivergence, I can understand that his interaction with reality is different from mine. I still haven't fully forgiven him, but now we can actually keep in contact and have a relationship. It's not, and probably never will be, a close father-daughter relationship, but I'm glad we have what we have. EDIT: I didn't appropriately explain myself. I now understand that there's a lot going on with my father that has nothing to do with narcissism that contributes to the way he treated us. I understand that narcissism isn't the thing to blame on its own.
@youtubeuserremainsanonymou90223 ай бұрын
I feel like the complexity of narcissist shows how important it is to remember not to get consumed with labels. Narratives and their nuances help so much more. There are people who are even more vilified than narcissists (psychopaths) and it is only a subset who are dangerous and it is actions like torturing animals that are a greater signal than a diagnosis.
@friendlinessclaritin2 ай бұрын
Psychology in Seattle has a huge deep dive on Narcissistic Personality Disorder(run by an experienced therapist), and it explains it really well with compassion toward narcissists. He does a great job of explaining the disorder, why it happens, and treatment without using the demonizing language that a lot of people, even clinicians, use. I really appreciate his work to destigmatize and educate about personality disorders as someone who has one (BPD).
@yeetyeet1655Ай бұрын
I was abused by someone who displays a lot of traits of NPD including the core mindset of self hatred. The thing that helped me the most in healing was 1. Everyone finding out I was telling the truth and he is in fact a horrible person 2. Listening to people suffering from NPD- their stories, their struggles, their thoughts processes. If he does have NPD like my therapist theorizes, then he suffers from it. He’s struggling deeply. He needs help. I can see, from a distance, his life falling apart, him abusing someone else, his self loathing and lack of identity. It doesn’t make me happy, but it makes me see him as human. And that helps me a lot personally
@kathleendinsmore75883 ай бұрын
I never thought my narcissistic mother wasn’t human. It’s just that she was hard pressed to view me as one.
@DaughterofDiogenes3 ай бұрын
💯💯💯💯. I understand what people are saying about humanizing people with NPD when you’ve been harmed to terribly by someone who likely had NPD because if they are off the chain then you aren’t human to them.
@bamioayam3 ай бұрын
Yeah, I feel this deeply. The first thing I thought about when I finally got therapy was "my older sister needed the psychological help more than me, she was hurt far worse." But even if that was true, the abuse that she heaped onto me because her own issues still leaves me paralyzed in my mid-20s, and to this day she still struggles to see me as a human being. I spent 20 years of my life having to explain to everyone else that my sister is a human being who needs help. I do my best to help her. It doesn't change the fact that she also is the person who repeatedly wished me dead and tried to make that a reality. Sighs.
@saturdayschild85352 ай бұрын
Exactly. They expect what they don’t give.
@MarchingBand3699Ай бұрын
Why do you all continue to miss the fucking point omg 😅
@DaughterofDiogenesАй бұрын
@@MarchingBand3699 what is the point since we missed it. I really like to understand. Can you explain? I’ve forgotten what this video was about so it would certainly be helpful. If I knew what the real point was I could probably figure out why I missed it at least. Missing points is par for the course for me. I’m audhd so I need kind humans to explains lots of things. Many times what feels like the point to me is not what others are thinking.
@reay18643 ай бұрын
im so glad to finally see a more mainstream creator talking about npd in a more nuanced and unsensational way. the villainization of narcissism and conflation of the disorder with abuse hurts both people with stigmatised mental illnesses and abuse victims. as someone with personality disorders (not npd but still) im very excited for ppl to finally realise this and move away from this awful trend
@PokhrajRoy.3 ай бұрын
Not the “Is my mother a narcissist?” 💀
@Cherrycherrylady14793 ай бұрын
Bro how many comments you got
@derpkipper3 ай бұрын
I smell someone who is lucky enough to have never dealt with narcissistic abuse and hasn't had to deal with that type of trauma. Might be better to get off that high horse though.
@vrubin3 ай бұрын
@@derpkipper “narcissistic abuse” is just emotional abuse that dehumanizes narcissists
@FuzzyGecko3 ай бұрын
A quick perusal of r/raisedbynarcissists will give anyone questioning a good idea what a narcissistic mother is like o.o
@erickrick39013 ай бұрын
@@vrubin no, narcissistic abuse dehumanizes the victim of the abuse, lol. That is what narcissistic abuse is, you slowly understand that you are not a real person to them, just a useful appliance. It’s not the same as being abused by a person with depression or anxiety, because they show remorse, see your perspective, and you understand their intentions are real. Narcissists consciously (and subconsciously) manipulate and see reality and other people in a way that is completely inverted and solipsistic and is literally not capable of seeing another’s perspective. Narcissists CAN choose to not do bad things, their neural circuitry is not deficient in that respect, its just that they don’t. In other words they abuse consciously in some respect, but without fully understanding why they do these bad things. They do know they are doing bad things though. That’s what is so fucked up about it, they know they are doing it, you ask them to stop, and they don’t. Because it doesn’t benefit them. You don’t know what you are talking about.
@theon1yenigma8682 ай бұрын
As someone who is currently planning on going down a path of becoming a Cluster-B PD's specializing therapist I really respect the fact that you made this video. Peer Reviewed studies found that a majority of psychologists will not work with any Cluster B's, and further more Cluster Bs are more likely to not get help due to the demonization of these disorders.
@AnHeCАй бұрын
You're about to find out why xD
@recursiveslacker773016 күн бұрын
Yeah, narcissism is a particularly tragic disorder because the only way to help a person manage it is for them to buy into the process - it’s impossible to give effective therapy against someone’s will or even just without their good-faith engagement. And the disorder makes it unlikely they’ll buy in in the first place. To all those that are really putting in the time for self reflection, you are loved and your efforts are appreciated. But a lot of narcissists will end up using therapy as another weapon. I just wish there was a better way to help.
@SashaSalimАй бұрын
As a now licensed therapist and survivor of narcissistic abuse from my dad as a child, people throw around the term narcissistic way too much. My dad is the only person with NPD that I've ever known in my life. He wasn't some big evil monster that did only horrible and bad things. He was a complex human being. Yes he did sometimes do horrible things and was most certainly an abuser towards me and my family. But he was also capable of smiling, laughing, being happy, and creating happy memories with us. This is why it was so hard for me to make the decision to cut him out of my life. Because while he was capable of making me feel so horrible and small, he also had his own trauma while growing up and all of his behaviors came from his own deep sense of insecurity and not feeling good enough.
@TsukiNoMilkshake3 ай бұрын
Yes! I had all this suspicions floating around about this new trend of cataloguing a*holes as narcissists. Smelled very essencialist and didn't help with addressing the real issue, which is the abuse.
@TheKaliMalia3 ай бұрын
Thank you! I've been trying to explain my discomfort with using the word "narcissist" as shorthand for "they have too many traits that I perceive as self-centered and difficult to deal with" and just stopping the convo there without acknowledging the traits. Maybe because then we'd have to face the fact that there are reasons for those traits, and make a conscious decision to try holding space for them or dismiss them altogether. It kinda seems like using "narcissist" is a way to avoid having to directly make the *choice* of whether to consider the human behind the "narcissist" entity as a whole person with experiences that led them here. Lately, I've been trying to ask myself and others "what do you mean by that?" and trying to go further. Usually I find myself worried I'll be accused of defending "the narcissist" when really I'm trying to dig a bit deeper to see if we *have* to see the person as non-complex and non-human for the sake of the conversation.
@IshtarNike3 ай бұрын
For me I was being emotionally abused for years. I bent over backwards for this person. I spent years trying to consider the person she was behind those traits. She was unable to change. At the end of the day nothing I did, no matter how much space I held, she gaslighted and invalidated me. Second person I met with some sort of "issue" was a boss who routinely acted like work was chill and there were no deadlines. Then tore my work apart and made me cry in the office. Then gaslighted me and asked me why I thought I'd done anything wrong when she'd been on a 10 minute (softly spoken) rant nitpicking everything I did. She then ran to upper management while I was signed off with stress to get me transferred to another team because of my "performance and behaviour." I had receipts so luckily the impact was low. But her behaviour was eerily reminiscent of my wife. She feigned emotional closeness, and actively pried into my personal life to get me to open up to her. But as soon as she made me cry she started ignoring my messages. Like I was basically apologising to her and she was giving me the silent treatment after she made ME cry. I realised, after a minute, that she was punishing me with the silent treatment. I wouldn't have figured that out without learning about NPD. Even if she doesn't have it it was useful to know. Like I have no doubt the term is over used. But having made a study of the diagnostic criteria and gone over all the information I know I think I have a decent hunch about these people. The key here is, what does me holding space for them do? Yeah my boss I didn't know that long. But she exhibited lots of similar signs. Another interesting thing is that what she did to me had no benefit to her. Like with some people the nastiness makes material sense. But when it's like ego based or so personal then you can't really negotiate that with people. You also can't see it coming because it's so irrational. My manager got nothing material out of that and lost her only direct report. Made herself look bad to the rest of the team all because she somehow couldn't bring herself to just help me do my work. I would literally talk to my wife for almost an hour in a calm methodical voice to get her to understand why her words upset me and she couldn't take responsibility for anything. And to me, as a survivor of her abuse, I'm just not interested in holding more space for people like that. The NPD model works to explain the phenomenon. I know why she has it. Her mum abused her in the same way she abused me. I was constantly trying to make up for that abuse. And all she did was take more, and then call me lazy for it. Personally I don't go around calling her a narcissist to people. But I describe her behaviours accurately. And if you happen to know about narcissistic personalities and narcissistic abuse then it's a useful term to describe a suite of related behaviours. I come from a science background and I understand that sometimes two models can be equally "true." I think this is one of those times. In the abstract I hope these people can get help. But personally I'm not convinced that a personality style that is characterised by such deeply abusive behaviours shouldn't carry a warning label. Being a cis straight guy does, for example. And for good reason. It's not like cis men wake up and decide to be abusers (yes I know lots of abuse is a conscious decision z I've read Bancroft, but personality disorders are similar. That behaviour counts as conscious). It's also a form of socialisation. But correctly, we've decided that that's largely not the main issue at the moment. Protecting survivors is. That's where I come down on this. People shouldn't be labelled willy nilly. But this kind of abuse is serious and needs to be taken seriously. Edit: I do agree with the point about the industrial complex around the term which is definitely not good.
@TheKaliMalia3 ай бұрын
@IshtarNike I think I hear you. I don't mean that holding space for someone should mean accepting abuse and excusing the abuse with the abuser's trauma stories while ignoring your own needs (nor that if you dont hold space for your abuser that you're doing something bad). There's plenty of people I don't speak to anymore because of my own experiences with them. I also do not know you and am not telling you specifically to "hold space" for your abusers' emotions. That would be pretty messed up and upsetting. My general statements will not apply to your specific relationship dynamics with abusers in your life. I don't have answers for you specifically. I'm also not referring to narcissism as a diagnosis given by a medical professional to a patient. I'm specifically referring to when it's used in a casual context to describe someone they don't like, based on an idea that the person is just too self-centered for one's liking. I kinda only covered the first part- recognizing the reasons. I don't have an idea on what everyone should do after that because of how complex, varied, and personal that process is. We all have different capacities at different times in our lives for different people we feel are worth that kind of effort, and I think that's okay. I've been trying to re-evaluate my own process on these things. What does/could holding space look like in practice? Who is allowed to hold that space? What do we do with it? Am I going to be mad at people who choose to hold that space for someone who has hurt me? If so, why? If not, why? (These are questions for myself, and just for example of where my mind is at here.) It sounds like you recognized the reasons and made your decisions on whether it was safe to stay around those people to even think about "working it out" (which I know is not possible to do with *everyone* we come across). I fully believe you shouldn't feel any guilt for decisions made to protect yourself from an abuser. It's hard to know what to say, cause I am still very much working on my own trauma responses to things and healing from those abusive experiences. But I hope you are finding yourself having more days of feeling safe and okay as time goes on.
@ahmadalimi97843 ай бұрын
@@IshtarNikejust checking behaviors on a DSM checklist does not actually make someone have NPD, this is the the biggest misconception. Those traits are correlational first of all, and second of all in order to get diagnosed and full on IN PERSON assessment of various sectors has to be done.
@labdian3 ай бұрын
As a clinical psychologist I was pleasantly surprised, impressed and utterly entertained by this video. It was unexpectedly deep, broad and interesting to me. Thank you for making it. I'll look around the channel and see what else you have going on there.
@katerinanova47383 ай бұрын
Firstly, thank you so much for this video. It encapsulates all of my feelings about narcissism related content on the internet. I was raised by a narcissist and developed narcissistic traits because of it. In all honesty, I think the only reason I didn't develop the disorder in its fullest capacity is because I stumbled across the NPD criteria during quarantine, thought "wow that is literally me. I am becoming the people that hurt me" and tried to improve myself out of abject shame. I brought it up to my first therapist, who ended up saying I couldn't have NPD because I was self aware. Same woman tried to evaluate me for ASPD (she called it sociopathy lmao) when I told her my father says he's a sociopath. I quickly realized what she was doing and lied when she asked me questions. I was 16 and didn't want that life altering diagnosis. Fast forward, I'm an adult now and in a somewhat better spot mentally. Apparently (according to my current therapist), most of my narcissistic traits are actually caused by 1) CPTSD, 2) my neurodivergence (this directly impacts empathy), and 3) bipolar. My mania comes with grandiosity and sometimes grandiose delusions, it basically mimics NPD. When I'm in the worst of my depression, I feel absolutely nothing. I've unpacked my feelings of shame more, and feel less of a need to grandstand and brag. It's... weird. I remember in one therapy session, I realized all of my trauma (sexual, bullying, etc.) all caused me to feel one thing: completely inhuman. Worthless. I hid behind achievement to escape that. It nearly killed me. My healing journey, on the outside, almost looks like self destruction. My grades are getting worse, and my personality is becoming a bit more abrasive. But it's because I am not doing everything for praise and admiration anymore. It's just... me. My therapist even told me that as I've gotten more mentally healthy, I've become more cocky. But the key difference is, I don't feel the need to put others down. It's almost like that more positive form of narcissism I think. As it's essentially harmless. All of this rambling about myself to say, healing is a beautiful, messy, and tragic journey. To say someone is incapable of some form of healing because of a disorder is downright sinister. It causes so much pain. And like you said, the best case scenario for the narcissist is to seek help. It helps them and others.
@faerie59263 ай бұрын
You were right to have red flags about that therapist- idk if it was part of the criteria back when she was diagnosing you, but now you have to be 18+ to be diagnosed with ASPD. Also, good luck on your healing journey! :3
@socksinsoda95173 ай бұрын
Dang, this was really interesting to read through. I've also noticed a few narcissistic traits within myself, but have been working to get better. I think a lot of the time, people might develop selfishness as a survival mechanism to get their needs met, which is unfortunate. I hope your healing journey continues to go well
@DaughterofDiogenes3 ай бұрын
Multiple therapists over the years have told me that both my mother and my husband show many classic symptoms of NPD. It was therapy that pushed me toward looking into it and I am finally willing to accept that it is likely true. They both happen to be abusive in thier own way and it is soul crushing and spirit killing. Watching videos by a particular man who was diagnosed and is in therapy and makes videos. He really taught me to see the pattern of behavior and stop worry about a certain diagnosis. Focus on the behavior and how it makes me feel and move from thier. I have always told my husband that if he was willing to get help I could stay with him. It’s been 10 years and I can’t do it anymore. He refuses still to seek any treatment and so we had to separate. My therapists have suggested he shows strong symptoms of sociopathic narcissism. And the internet describes covert narcissism and that fits very well with his personality. No one knows what he’s like. He only acts out toward me and the kids. He just treats us like he hates us and says horrible things. There’s just so much. I can totally see why it would be frustrating to have NPD and not be an abuser and get lumped in with those abusers. I think more videos by people with NPD who aren’t abusers would be so very helpful because it would help show that just because you have NPD doesn’t mean you are an abuser. I think for some reason that people need to feel like their abuse must come from somewhere and so it’s easy to blame it on NPD.
@YukiAndZeroFTW3 ай бұрын
I was diagnosed ASD level 2 last year, but as a teen I was diagnosed with BPD. At the time, I did intensive research into the diagnosis and became hyper aware that it was a coin flip whether I got diagnosed BPD or NPD, so when I saw people calling those with NPD evil, it just reminded me of a more blatant version of the same stigma I faced from my BPD diagnosis and I was like "how is this fair?"... Now I'm convinced that BPD and NPD are bullshit crappy attempts to categorise what's simply complex trauma/CPTSD. Often, they're labels given to people with undiagnosed ASD with added gender bullshit on top (ie many with a BPD diagnosis are women with undiagnosed ASD, and many with an NPD diagnosis are men with undiagnosed ASD). You get BPD if you're seen as emotional or manipulative, NPD if you're seen as unempathetic or self absorbed. I thought my dad was a narcissist but now I know he was undiagnosed ASD and also just a terrible father lol
@DaughterofDiogenes3 ай бұрын
What about a man who is manipulative, self absorbed, unempathetic and emotional 😂😂. I am diagnosed AuDHD and my ex was diagnosed with adhd. Occasionally I wondered if he had ASD, but he was so manipulative at such a high level that I can’t imagine he would fit as autistic. No one except me and my kids know about his rages and outbursts. No one else. I cannot tell anyone I know about what is happening or I seem crazy. The few times I tried to reach out for help, folks called him to see if he was ok. It’s crazy making. And I’ve learned by now not to even engage because he is so quickly able to confound and confuse me I will fall into meltdown with in moments of his targeted attacks. I definitely have diagnosed ptsd from my decade with him to add to the CPTSD I had before we met 😂. He wouldn’t get any help and thank goodness I finally woke up!! But for me I am like the most lovable, loving loudmouth person. I can’t imagine hurting someone on purpose. I can’t imagine being able to be a totally different person in public than in private. He acts like I can’t remember by saying one thing one day and another the next and blames me and my memory. It’s gotten so bad I had to reduce all communication to text because he talks in loops I cannot understand them tells at me for asking for clarification. But even that leaves me exposed. I ask a yes or no question and I get a paragraph that is so unclear I have to keep asking for clarification which gives him the chance to be cruel and then he blocks me. So after a decade of giving this man my everything and taking all his trash and raising our kids, he is using everything he knows about me to absolutely disorient and confound me and possibly attempting to take the kids from me. Kids he doesn’t even want to raise. It’s terrifying and I’m just hoping it won’t get as bad as some folks say it will get. I don’t view him as a monster. I know he went through abuse and he is emotionally traumatized, but the way he’s behaves toward me and his kids is downright evil and I am an atheist. Like it was so bad I started to think he was the devil 😂. I had to go get help because i started to think this is the devil here to punish me for my failings. It was insane. I am so glad to be out of it. Oh lord I’m so glad. No joke I go to church now. I’m still mostly an atheist but I realized that the more I go in public around people he doesn’t know, the less he will attack me directly. So now I go to church every week with my kiddos 😂😂
@compulsiverambler13522 ай бұрын
@@DaughterofDiogenesStudies have shown a bias towards perceiving the same behaviour as NPD in a man but BPD in a woman. So if you have significant traits of both, your sex makes it likely you will get diagnosed with one or the other, due to assumptions in the psychiatrist about what motivates men (seeking power) versus women (seeking emotional relief). I think that is the phenomenon the commenter was referring to.
@3squared45Ай бұрын
Yup. I can directly trace my bpd impulses to trauma I had. Its definitely c-ptsd in my case, though I use bpd partly bc its easier to say and explain and partly bc i hope openly identifying as bpd can help me be an advocate for those like me
@AnnaCatherineB3 ай бұрын
I really think calling someone who is incredibly afraid and insecure a narcisist is a misinterpretation of their intentions. Im trying to have better tolerance and communication with people who fit some of the stereotypes of narcisism. But as it is, i dont feel emotionally guarded enough to handle the guilt triping and gaslighting. Im very trusting and take things literally, and i have so much empathy. It takes days to process manipulative conversations to understand that it was based in their anxious delusions and that they are afraid of me as much if not more than I am afraid of them.
@AnnaCatherineB3 ай бұрын
Im glad ive been finding more info about NPD and dismantling of the concept of demonizing "narcisists". It doesnt help anything or anyone to reject people wholely or demonize them, especially if they have a disorder. They can be helped with a simple diagnosis.
@AnHeCАй бұрын
They absolutely cannot be helped. It's not a flu. It's who you are. Most people never change one way or another. If you stick around them you'll just get more abuse. If this works for you, that's cool. But people don't change. Not just narcissists, people in on general. I know it makes them sad to be rejected, but it makes me sad to be in the receiving end of what they dish out. Nope. Just nope.
@middlemuse2 ай бұрын
I was abused as a child, as were many of my friends, and I’ve noticed that all of us, myself included, have gone through phases of believing our abusers were narcissists. I’ve also noticed that it’s not helpful in the long term. Just a flash of being obsessive and hoping it’ll make things hurt less, but it doesn’t. Turns out therapy is much more helpful than r/raisedbynarcissists for healing from trauma.
@incanthatus81823 ай бұрын
The essentialism is really something that worries us! Whenever we try to research something to help us deal with our own narcissistic traits, we always come across some of the most vile and hateful shit. It feels like that belief of narcissists being these inhuman monsters is something that many people share, some of them mental health professionals. Some of them actively asking for violence against everyone with NPD. To us, NPD is just one of many adaptations to trauma and when those traits aren't needed anymore to keep us safe, we can start to learn something new. But the world being so hateful about it is really not super encouraging.
@boopboopscoop2 ай бұрын
in the mid 2010s i was trying to leave an abusive relationship, and i went to youtube to learn more about abuse so i could understand what happened to me, how to process it, and how to heal. at that time, narcissistic abuse videos were extremely prominent--more prominent than most other types of videos about abuse, at least from what i saw. but the more videos i saw, the more i saw that this kind of content almost seemed to encourage staying stuck in circles of rumination, which would naturally encourage viewers to continue watching those videos. i struggled to find evidence that videos like this led to people actually healing. additionally it became apparent to me that you could vilify any type of behavior in this way and place the narcissism label on it without much thought. my ex-partner did many things that were simply cruel, but he wasn't a monster or a villain. he was a human being, just as i am, who made choices and took actions that caused me harm. i don't know if he had NPD, but would it have mattered if he did? it isn't useful for me in my healing to do a postmortem armchair diagnosis. i don't have NPD, but i have another highly stigmatized disorder. my heart goes out to people with NPD, who face such extreme vitriol without nuance from the general public. they are human beings. i really enjoyed this video, it really tapped into what made me uncomfortable with pop psych content about narcissism as a whole. thank you for discussing this thoroughly and thoughtfully!
@kamrynduplessis19973 ай бұрын
my mom became a narcissists bad content creator when i was a kid & now i have a bpd diagnosis & im doing my phd in the neuroscience of bpd & am so radically against personality disorder stigma its crazy. ty for this video, ive only recently seen this take getting traction
@remiremsar59463 ай бұрын
on God, narcissism is becoming the boogyman of pop psychology and I can't take these people seriously anymore.
@penguinpinata3 ай бұрын
THANK YOU ! as someone with schizoeffective disorder , i have to constantly defend people with NPD to people who think it makes people inherently abusive , it's terrible ! no one should be immediately seen as evil . you'd think abuse victims would know that .
@BohAstora3 ай бұрын
I would like to remind everyone at all times that a person is a human being no matter their actions nor batshit behavior. They still experience and have their motives in life just as you do.
@cocodong91173 ай бұрын
once u know a real legit narcissist, you realize how terribly loosely the term is thrown around. Ive only known one in my life and they aren't that common to come across
@serenediipity3 ай бұрын
i believe in educated self-diagnosis but i've had to teach myself not to put diagnostic labels on other people, especially when i’m coming at it from a negative pov
@kyubeyo21 күн бұрын
Good work man
@someoddchick92963 ай бұрын
I’ve been waiting for this video. I’m with a man who has diagnosed NPD. He is very aware of it and fights to be the best version of himself he can be. I’ve watch him grow as a person to be better than his condition, taking steps to make amends for past actions and rebuild relationships. It’s been a rough journey and whenever it comes up people ask me if I’m safe and ok. I never take offense considering the vast majority of encounters people have with narcissists. It’s a rough thing to have for any party involved.
@annajensen73603 ай бұрын
I'm a trans man, who is just starting to grapple with how men are treated by society as dangerous potential threats. I don't personally have NPD but I feel sympathy for how hard it must be for him to deal with the stigma and bias. He should be proud of the work you have put into himself and you should be proud for seeing beyond the stereotype and understanding the truth about your partner.
@someoddchick92963 ай бұрын
@@annajensen7360 Thank you from the both of us. I wish you well on your journey through manhood. While I can’t say I’m trans, there are periods where I am male presenting. I have a medical condition where I can grow a full on beard and will lean into it from time to time. Seeing everything from both worlds it’s down right heart breaking. I believe the vast majority of people deserve to have someone at least try to understand them.
@By_Ash_Away3 ай бұрын
I appreciate this take so much. I think people who’ve been through trauma (like myself) sometimes find it comforting to dehumanize narcissists as a coping mechanism/potentially to have an easier answer for why bad things happened to them. That’s not actually healthy and it’s good to talk about that.
@devcron7041Ай бұрын
That isn't dehumanizing you're just recognizing the obvious, that they never even cared about you in the first place so seeing them as a human is kinda meaningless due to them not having any humanity in general
@wilawitee3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much Elliot for making this video. I wish I saw this in 2018, when I discovered my narcissistic tendencies. (I'm not officially diagnosed, and I don't know if I have NPD or not. My narcissistic traits are many, though.) When I tried to educate myself about it, most of what I found told me that I wasn't even human, and that I was doomed to hurt everyone around me. I went into a spiral, always drinking, distancing myself from people as not to hurt them. It was bad. Fortunely, I snapped out of it. I thought, fine, if I couldn't be human I'd be a god. A benevolent god. I decided to use my narcissistic traits for good. I worked on myself and tried to become better. (I also binge watched The Good Place an embarrassing amount of times. lol Seeing narcissistic, antisocial characters learn to be better and forming bonds with others gave me hope.) I can proudly say I've become a better person. I know this because more than one person have told me so. I'm still not a saint. I still struggle with vulnerability. But I can continue to try, can't I? As for the myth of Narcissus, what I take away from it is that Narcissus doesn't love himself, only his reflection. In some versions of the tale, he doesn't even know that it is him in the pond. If he loved himself, like truly loved himself, he'd remove himself from the cold, lifeless water. He'd instead direct his attention to his real self. The self that feels pain. The self that rages and fears. The self that experiences all these complicated emotions and sensations. His tragedy is that he can only love the perfection he sees in the pond, not his real, messy self. That's the tragedy of real-life narcissists as well. So, as a part of my healing, I learned to cultivate authentic self love and self acceptance. It helped, so much. There are a couple of books I found useful. One is "Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion" by Paul Bloom, which offers a way to be good without empathy. Another is "The Selfishness of Others: An Essay on the Fear of Narcissism" by Kristin Dombek, which debunks the fear and hate people have towards narcissists. To all narcissists reading this who are trying to be better, I see you, and I love you. I know it's not easy, but please keep going because it's so worth it. I hope you have a lovely day today.
@MystiqMiu3 ай бұрын
excited for this video, especially after watching D'Angelo's video on Caroline Calloway. At all times I was actuely aware that yes she has undesirable personality traits, but so do lots of people. She's still a complex person, though, as are all narcissists, and deserves to be treated with the same respect and nuanced thought as everyone else. (Not excusing her actions nor ignoring the fact that she in particular probably needs several financial literacy classes and mental health support, she's just a relevant example)
@sandyjeans55183 ай бұрын
i was JUST thinking this!!
@botanicalitus41943 ай бұрын
I mean yeah everyone has bad personality traits but they're obviously not all equal or as extreme. she is still, in fact, a very uniquely bad person even if she is complex. Most people have good qualities and bad qualities too, yeah, but there is a threshold where if someone crosses it then others will understandably mostly view them on a negative light. When someone is riding that threshold it can be very difficult to figure out how to view that person or whether to give them the benefit of the doubt, but corline does not ride that line. I dont know where the line is exactly, but she certainly surpassed it with all her lies, theft from regular people, scams, harassment of natalie, and her doing lewd cosplays for OF of characters who are underage CSA victims. Oh and her just casually admitting that she follows 15 yos on tiktok that she's attracted to bc she likes watching them dance
@holliebrokaw37163 ай бұрын
Narcissistic personality disorder has been swimming around the surface of my mind since the hbomberguy/james somerton debacle. The mess of armchair diagnosticians have made themselves really visible (at least in my bubble)
@solarmoth46283 ай бұрын
She has legitimately caused harm to other people though and continues to do so. I feel sorry for how she grew up and it definitely contributed to how she acts now. I’m not saying she isn’t deserving of help but, it doesn’t absolve her from not hurting others. I don’t think everything she does is because of her personality. Nor do I think she’s innately a “bad” person. Most rich people don’t really care or have a good understanding of there’s of people less wealthy than them. I feel like a lot of credit goes to growing up in a wealthy environment.
@MystiqMiu3 ай бұрын
Agreeing with the above, she's definitely choosing to be worse than her circumstances are making her, not denying that. "Undesirable personality traits" undermines the extent of her particular situation and especially the way they play into her actions, so my fault for equating her so simply with the general public. She's an exceptional person to talk about regarding narcissism given her scams, threatening behavior, and overall questionable actions. Again, not just actions with negative consequences but choices that she chooses to do with full awareness. Still, from Natalie's very empathetic perspective and from CC's perspective when not talking about how shitty she chose to be, she had a lot going on that had me like "Damn. I've been there. Lots of bad days at once and you cope with what you have and it shapes you." Not anywhere as privileged as she but still carrying my own blessings, I empathized with her turmoils when factoring in upbringing, traits, and what's happened to her (the multiple addictions if you include gambling/spending, loss of an immediate family member, struggling to appear OK when you're not, etc). Like I said, she's complex like anybody. Discussing just that from a lens like Natalie was very revealing, and the nuanced approach to examining her while still reproaching her bad choices was interesting. To a less serious extents, D'Angelo and Elliot are star examples of how to talk about people with certain narcissist traits or tendencies or 'bad' traits while not declaring them 'evil' or 'inhuman'. I really do think she and other rich kids like her need financial literacy classes and opportunities to really learn the consequences of money as well as how to live without it. She also needs mental health support to unpack why she makes certain decisions and how she can have healthier emotions. All of this to say that this style of convo we're having here is progress for sure
@JacobWilsonVO3 ай бұрын
Personality disorders like narcissism, sociopaths and psychopaths are so demonized. For one thing those last two aren’t even medically recognized terms but people paint the slightest thing off as one of those 3. And even if the person is diagnosed with that, they’re not evil murderers or on the verge of it either.
@zootzbootz2 ай бұрын
hi just wanted to let you know those terms you used are considered slurs against people with ASPD. im not accusing you of anything bad or malicious. i agree with your comment 100% otherwise but i feel its good to be educated abt this sorta stuff so im just. letting you know its best not to use that type of terminology 😭 (better off calling it what its actually named; aspd / antisocial personality disorder)
@JacobWilsonVO2 ай бұрын
@@zootzbootz that was actually was I was getting at. That those aren’t medical terms And are demonizing terms.
@zootzbootz2 ай бұрын
@@JacobWilsonVO Ah yeah, 😭😭 sometimes my reading comprehension takes a nosedive sorry for any misunderstanding
@JacobWilsonVO2 ай бұрын
@@zootzbootz no worries! Thanks for the heads up!
@juicy.couture2 ай бұрын
@@zootzbootznot everyone with aspd considers it a slur
@rachelelee68563 ай бұрын
Dr. Ramani likes to do pop psychology regarding BPD as well as NPD, with "types" unrecognized by the DSM. I've actually been attacked for not knowing her types and told I was uninformed about my own diagnosis. It seems incredibly dehumanizing for people to armchair psychoanalyze people who are trying to cope with their lives as best as possible based off some youtube videos while disregarding the words and experiences of the people in question.
@Cowface3 ай бұрын
I think the narcissism content resonates more with codependents and those with insecure attachment than those who are healthy. If you roll your eyes at all this narcissism content, that may be a sign that you’re psychologically healthy. Those of us who are codependent/insecurely attached have spent their whole lives “seeing the best in everyone”, putting up with mistreatment and making excuses for it, which makes us natural targets for abusers. Along comes someone like Dr ramani, telling us that we can’t fix them, that they are who they are, and we need to decide what role they’re going to play in our lives based on their actual behavior and not based on our fantasy of what we think we can change them into, is a revolutionary, life changing perspective. This is why narcissism content is so popular, it’s empowering to those have been disempowered. You bring up great points, and her constant shifting between presenting herself as an authority in mental health, and a mere social commentator, is sloppy and it’s a valid criticism. But you also have to consider what it’s like to be someone whose been thoroughly gaslit into thinking abusive relationship are the norm and we’re just dumb and naive to think loving supportive relationships actually exist, content like this is incredibly validating, and can undo some of that gaslighting. It can provide hope and a sense that maybe we’re not crazy after all.
@Psychedlia982 ай бұрын
We won't forget you, but as psychologists, we have to work with people with NPD in a certain way, to help them understand their behavior, and that won't work if we keep stigmatizing it, we must show what NPD is, instead of using it as a means for views, and exploiting the victims vulnerability
@juliadrake2072 ай бұрын
such a smart response
@devcron7041Ай бұрын
Yea I feel like this dude talks about topics that are technically true, but he lacks the capability to understand why these topics are so heavily talked about to begin with. A strange pattern I've seen in his content is him siding with victimizers and degrading victims and normal people In general. I also don't really like how his audience seems to focus more on how validating him talking about this subject is for them rather than expressing any critical thought about the video, as this comment does, which I think is something that is extremely lacking in both the video and the fan base surrounding this guy
@CowfaceАй бұрын
@@devcron7041 Yea! You nailed it with “understand(ing) why these topics are so heavily discussed in the first place” that’s the conversation I wanna have. These people are running game in society and it’s sickening.
@OhMyNykkers3 ай бұрын
This is such a good discussion. Nameless narcissists' point on people using it as something to obsess over and not move on from hit home for me. I was like that for a while but as I opened up to viewing creators who are narcissists and learning from their perspectives, my obsession has turned into an interest in destigmatizing the disorder and gaining more understanding. How can someone begin to want help for something that everyone bastardizes? I hope we can change the narrative so more people with NPD can get help without feeling as many of the horrible things they're already feeling. I'll be sharing this one!
@1stdragon1232 ай бұрын
My best friend has been diagnosed with npd and ive always hated the stigma attached to it. He isnt empathetic at all but he learned how to react when he should, like he isnt sad that your sad but he does care and chooses to comfort you. It's like assuming someone walking slow is doing so because they want to be late and not because they have a limp. Obviously if he does something rude i would tell him off like anyone else but he isnt rude, evil, or mean, hes kind, thoughtful, and sweet. I judge him on his word and actions, not his lack of reaction to things he doesnt understand.
@theredrighthandproductions2 ай бұрын
As someone whos been diagnosed with NPD, I will say that it's definitely more of "incapable of considering the needs of others" rather than "unwilling to do so". Its been a recurring issue between me and my partner where i struggle with paying attention to her and tend to be more absorbed in my own thoughts or whatever else im doing, and she'll call me out on it and ill tell myself "okay, well, i gotta put more effort into paying attention to and actually listening to her going forward" and then i dont, and i dont realize im not doing it until she points it out again.
@crypticscrutiny11533 ай бұрын
I've employed the use of the term "the bleeding ego". I haven't mastered confidence. But people often comfuse true confidence with, what I feel to be, some form of narcissism. They need constant validation and appreciation so they project this image of an overly confident individual. But, of you know a person like this, you only have to scratch a bit past the surface to discover they are wounded, scared individuals with very low self esteem. Thus, the bleeding ego. They make their ego and sense of self the problem of those around them. They need others to hold the bandage to their wounded ego. This has been my experience with such individuals.
@deijitaetae28823 ай бұрын
Years ago, I read a detailed article in Oprah magazine on Narcissism and it was reflected my relationship with my Mom. The last line was, “…and God help you if this extreme form of narcissistic behavior is your mother.” Scared the shit out of me. But also gave me clarity.
@zfunk563 ай бұрын
Some international psychology groups are trying to get rid of NPD and BPD as terms and just using the umbrella term of personality disorder. These other terms cause a lot of stigma and does not help these individuals get help.
@hedenistpluto3 ай бұрын
Genuinely thank you. I've seen so many neurodivergent people think that narcissists (and other cluster B's) are demons. It's great to see you make this video as i have some narc traits (like near entire cognitive empathy and some manipulitive tendencies) so thank you
@Nublet8643 ай бұрын
I feel like the overall obsessions with narcissism, psycopathy, and what have you are that there is a comfort in feeling like you can identify an abuser with as little information as possible so that they will never get the chance to hurt you. Which is ultimately why it seems so unsavory to suggest that we be compassionate to ppl who are narcissists because a lot of the time ppl do this as a trauma response, and without that comfort of feeling like they could now avoid being abused again they may not feel safe interacting with new ppl ever again. They were hurt badly, and to tell them that a narcissist could be helped is basically telling them "well maybe your abusive ex actually could have been fixed. You just failed at it." Which, touches on a what i feel like there is also a huge gendered aspect in this where afab folk are often socialized to anticipate danger will tend to gravitate more to these pop psychology videos on narcissism because to us it's another tool in our arsenal so survive the ol' patriarchal society that we live in. Like, i've literally seen a tiktok where someone straight up said, "there is no such thing as a recovered narcissist only a narcissist that learns therapy terms to weaponize them" ... like, i'm sorry, doctorate needed to support that shit, and even still, i want to see some reviews from peers on that one. Which brings me to my last point i'll end this comment on, another thing i feel like this phenomenon has done is sort of, over emphasize the importance of feeling empathy and that feeling empathy is they only way for someone to be a good person. Like sure, someone who feels empathy may hurt you, but when they apologize about it, they are genuine because *they* feel bad about it. Sure, you've made mistakes in your life, but you're still a good person because *you* feel bad you it. Anyways, good vid. Muy fuego 🔥
@ItsAllNunya2 ай бұрын
No notes i just needed to tell u ur spittin
@anthonyfarrell77203 ай бұрын
18:17 A critical hazard of narcissism is that they usually are too sensitive to be seriously self critical. Narcissists who are self aware have overcome the biggest hurdle to reform. With out first doing that, they won't get better. They can seek others for help, but no one can fix them if they don't seek reform.
@dinosaysrawr3 ай бұрын
It's why they're so rarely seen in the therapy room. When they go to therapy, it's usually because they've been forced by a loved one, or because they want to recruit the therapist to help them "fix" everyone around them.
@RebeccaBardess3 ай бұрын
Kylee! You did great. Ignore the hate. Keep going. Your courage and accountability is helping people a great deal.
@KyleeRackam3 ай бұрын
Thank you!!
@ariebirb3 ай бұрын
The title alone gave me chills. i am 20 seconds in and can very much tell this is a very needed video.
@Kamishi8453 ай бұрын
I've been saying this for years that narcissism has become this boogeyman people blame all their trauma and relationship problems onto. When I ask the person if the person they're accusing to be a narcissist has been diagnosed, the answer is obviously always no. So instead of addressing the actual core problem of traumatic relationships which could be caused by a myriad of factors, it's easier to blame the pain and trauma on narcissism, because that we way we don't have to self-reflect on what we could have done better but we just say "they were mean to me" and move on.
@sonnentausnest2 ай бұрын
Two things I want to remember from this video: 1. People with NPD struggle to self-regulate their sense of self-worth. 2. NPD is a trauma response. Both serve to make it easier for me to think in a more compassionate way of people with NPD, which is what I was looking for. Stigma doesn't help anyone.
@agent_star2 ай бұрын
maybe you care maybe not, but there are some really strong studies that aspd is also related to trauma.
@stuartraymond35953 ай бұрын
Everybody’s ex is a narcissist.
@kopfloserbeginn38792 ай бұрын
I find the implication funny that everyone who has an ex is a narcissist
@dan_asd2 ай бұрын
Mental illness is when people do things i don't like
@bestaround33232 ай бұрын
Nah, mine was just Bi Polar with CPTSD and a decent amount of other physical and psychological problems. I don't think they had NPD though. I just hope they are doing better.
@matthewfranklin2137Ай бұрын
My mom is a genuine narcissist/antisocial PD. She had such a horrific life that she became this way to cope. While I may never speak to her again, I am fully aware that her behavior and lifestyle caused her overwhelming pain
@shatteredprism3 ай бұрын
As someone with npd, I wish people would stop throwing the word "narcissist" around when referring to someone who is just self-centered, abusive, etc. The system I'm part of has various disorders including npd and usually, when we try to find resources in between our therapy sessions, we just find stuff like "how to deal with the narcissist in your life", and stuff demonizing us. Also, something I wish more people would realize is that npd, unlike narcissism that's similar to how Narcissus had it, npd isn't really loving yourself. It's a lie, a front you feed to everyone including yourself sometimes to avoid harsh realities.
@rihannasyummytoes3 ай бұрын
That’s literally how I found this video. I was looking for ways to cope with my symptoms and instead I’m hit with a wave of content about “dealing” with me, like my very existence is some kind of horrific disease.
@shannonmcglumphy59673 ай бұрын
I haven’t even watched yet, but I’m already glad just from the title. I work in mental health and yes, it’s hard to deal with people who have these traits, but it’s important to remember it’s the result of severe childhood neglect or abuse, and that they are suffering deeply. Diagnosis is for treatment, not ostracism.
@misterwachulochulo52623 ай бұрын
YOU REMINDED ME OF A PSYCHEDELIC TRIP I HAD IN WHICH I STARTED TO EXPERIENCE MYSELF FEELING THE CONSTANT NEGATIVITY THAT MY OWN TORMENTORS LIVE WITH EVERYDAY. I remember feeling lots of empathy for them because I thought to myself "if I felt so horrible about myself all the time, I'd just end things". It was a terrifying experience but it reminded me that we're all HUMANS here. Sure, it doesn't mean you have to become a co-dependent or that you have to ruin your own life to help abusive people, but it's just unfair to hate and demonize them. They're not that way because they want to.
@hunterra2172 ай бұрын
Ive always thought it was bizarre that we treat npd so differently from other mental health disorders. If someone is borderline, people are willing to forgive and try to treat their awful behavior, but if theyre trying to resolve their npd, its seen as hopeless
@user-yn7ev2fj3xАй бұрын
hi! im a narcissist! and i get what you mean about the problem with using the term narcissist as separate from NPD, however the solution is not to change the name of the disorder - this was tried with ASPD (previously psychopathy and sociopathy) and the stigma didnt go away, people with ASPD are still frequently called ps*chopaths and s*ciopaths, which are now deemed derogatory terms or slurs - the solution is to not call people who dont have NPD "narcissists" the same way you shouldnt call someone who doesnt have schizophrenia "schizophrenic" you can not separate "a narcissist" from "NPD", people who are "narcissistic" without NPD are egocentric/arrogant/self-centered or whatever other synonym you want to use. narcissism also doesnt make someone evil or bad or whatever inherently, as you said, abuse is a personal choice (or, rather, a series of choices) a person makes whether they know they're harmful or not. this is partially why the phrase "narcissistic abuse" is about as meaningful as "autistic abuse" or "schizophrenic abuse". having a disorder may cause some behavioural problems (for example, im autistic and am prone to get meltdowns in which i will instinctively hit anyone who touches me (to prevent this, when i feel a meltdown coming on i make sure to make it Very Clear not to touch me or i may hurt them or myself)) but that doesnt make someone abusive. in fact, knowing that you are more prone to problem behaviours such as "overreacting" when we feel criticized or ostracized, we are able to take measures to counteract that struggle on a side note, "Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria" or RSD is something ive seen talked about a lot in ADHD and is regarded as something thats intensely painful and difficult to deal with, however when it comes to narcissists who have the same trait, it's often demonized and viewed as manipulative. this is likely due to the stigma of NPD and potentially the infantilization of ADHD furthermore, the traits of "narcissistic abuse" already have a label: emotional abuse. when you look into what many call "narcissistic abuse" all of these actions and behaviours already fall under the category of emotional abuse, there's nothing that's tied to NPD specifically. it's just another way for people to demonize a mental disorder that is most often caused by trauma and abuse in childhood i know you probably wont see this comment as this video is a year old, but if anyone wants to find some resources on narcissism but cant find it under the pile of ableist professionals and armchair pop psychologist blogs, have a masterlist of resources i found on tumblr www.tumblr.com/psychiatricwarfare/740331703668703232?source=share sorry this was so long! im not very good at condensing my thoughts 😅 but thank you if you did read this far! here's to building towards a less ableist future
@Luukyana3 ай бұрын
I feel alot of debates like this one boil down to our black and white perception of the world and belief there is inherently good and evil in things that can't be truly discussed without nuance - like people or bigger concepts. Villifying any single person without concidering their circumstance is just putting your need of simplicity (and with that - safety) and bias over trying to understand and acting from a place of empathy. Which is imho quite ironic when the accusation is narcissism and thought process narcissism = evil.
@Senstrae3 ай бұрын
Thank you. This is a confusing subject I've been trying to wrap my head around for a while now, because I've had people in my life who I've suspected might have narcissistic traits or even the full personality disorder, and the online discussion is so muddled. I don't want to hand-wave these individuals off as "evil", because that's over-simplifying and dehumanizing. They likely wound up with these patterns due to trauma, which isn't their fault. Yet it's also functionally useful to identify these troubling behaviors because people who get unwittingly close can get seriously hurt.
@twokindsofovenfries323 ай бұрын
I think it is easy to dismiss the humanity of someone who was hurtful by calling them a "narcissist" People who are narcs aren't stressed or overwhelmed or perhaps even traumatised. We can overlook any good behaviour as manipulation, fake. Instead of people being grey, with some good behaviour, some bad and the ability to improve, we try and put people in black and white terms. And as someone with BPD, this culture is incredibly harmful to my recovery. My disorder and my traumatising childhood mean I see things in black and white terms. If someone behaves poorly- split! Tell them off! Say they're a bad person! Run away. If I do something bad- I am a narcissist, a bad person, there isn't hope for me. I feel guilt even around good things I do, I feel distrust of the good things others do - are we all faking it? I try and leave character profiles to authors. It's not for us regular people. Instead of saying "they're an abuser," which can more often make us feel shame for picking them as partners, feel hopeless and untrusting of others, saying "they were abusive to me" is healthier. It means you can cut them out, without having to feel scared that they're like that forever, that abusive people are around every corner. They could heal and not be abusive, but that's not my business when they treated me poorly. My mother was abusive to me. She was lovely to others, did a lot for charity, was kind in many ways. But she also hit, threw things at me, belittled and shouted at me, and did those same things to my father in front of me. I don't have to try and reconcile an "abuser" with having good qualities if I count abusive behaviour as what it is- behaviour.
@sonnentausnest2 ай бұрын
Thank you. Saying "they were abusive to me" is how I'm going to word it in the future, it's really helpful. I wish you well in your recovery 💚.
@aquilinelockheart75782 ай бұрын
I think this is exactly the same reason I don't like to say I hate people. Hate is such a strong word, and is normally said in the heat of the moment towards people you don't really think that way towards. I think the more we build up in our minds a negative vocabulary towards a person we are frustrated or upset with, the more conceited and twisted we can become ourselves ironically. The only person who's going to seem like a narcissist, if you use the word undeservingly over short-term non-serious frustrations, is yourself. Which tracks because its only stroppy teenagers or people with their own emotional problems that tend to use it in petty scenarios. The casual pathologization of every day life is just as unhealthy imo as not taking mental health seriously. There's a balance and moderation to these things we haven’t found yet I feel.