Narrative Board Game Cage Match!

Middara vs Stormsunder vs Arena vs Tainted Grail vs Oathsworn vs Aeon Trespass Odyssey!
The battle of the narrative board game is upon us! Which one should you be interested in? Which one is right for you and your group? What if you play solo? What if you enjoy planning unique character builds? What if you like dungeon crawling over skirmish? What if you want deterministic combat?
Well hopefully this video can help you decide. If not, ask a question!
Stormsunder: bit.ly/Stormsun...
Arena: bit.ly/ArenaTan...
Middara: bit.ly/MiddaraP...
Oathsworn: bit.ly/OathswornKS
AT:O: bit.ly/AeonTres...
Tainted Grail: bit.ly/TaintedG...
Facebook group: / theboardgamekingdom
- - - - - - - - -
💰Buy what I use and support the channel!💰
💠 Personally recommended products: www.amazon.com...
💠 Okayest Painter shirt: amzn.to/2ncHLt5
💠 Merch Store: teespring.com/...
💠 Buy cool nerd shirts! 10% discount code: KingOfAverage www.onceuponat...?ref=5db087d0b8885
- - - - - - - - -
🌟Remember to subscribe and like if you enjoyed this!😃
Where you can find me:
🔹 Patreon: / thekingofaverage
🔹 KZbin Community: / @thekingofaverage
🔹 Twitter: / averagekingyt
🔹 Instagram: / thekingofaverage
🔹 Facebook: / thekingofaverage
- - - - - - - - -
Music:
Licensed under
Creative Commons
Attribution:
"Battle of Pogs" by Komiku

[@DanielGonzalez-ef6eo]

Thank you for the comparison. Your break down really explains the difference in games. It really helps us, as players, to identify what our play styles are and what we should gravitate to. Please make this a new segment to you roster of videos( yes, I know you have all the time in the world and nothing to do). It would be very helpful to start with games to come and comparing them in the categories of similar games for reference. Thanks for your time, effort and passion .

[@TheKingofAverage]

Glad you find it helpful! :) That's actually a great idea to do a cage match taking 1 on KS or soon to be on KS game and trying to judge it against one already out. Of course it'd be a bit less definitive as it's my best guesses/impressions on the unreleased game, but would still be useful I feel.

[@brianerikhay1873]

Wow this was so insightful, thought-provoking and just utterly useful. I love the approach and I admire your honesty. More please!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much Brian for the feedback, I'm extremely glad you found the video helpful!

[@maximecg25]

Thanks for the video! Its funny. I backed 3 of those (Arena, Tainted Grail and Oathsworn) and the 3 others were on my radar but decided not too because reasons (price plus not enough time to play multiple campaigns are just some of them). I really like the format here. I thought the video would be longer for 6 games but it was a nice first step. If you keep doing those I'll ve very happy to watch them. If I have to critic one thing, I was expecting a deathmatch between the minis with combat sounds. Keep up the good work!

Deathmatch between the minis with combat sounds... Lol! Actually a great idea! Let each team use their own set of rules too! I would watch! :D

[@kevincrow954]

There are so many narrative games now we need another one of these!

[@davidarlington1206]

I've only played Arena so far, but the fact I've backed four of these six shows this video really resonates with me!

[@CheddahSlammer]

Me too lol, which four did you back?

[@davidarlington1206]

@@CheddahSlammer Arena, Tainted Grail, Aeons Oddessy, and Middara

[@CheddahSlammer]

@@davidarlington1206 I got Arena, Aeons Oddessy, Middara, and Oathsworm. I was too late for Tainted Grail, but I got Ether Fields instead.

[@ShelfClutter]

I am mostly interested in the comparisons. Its nice to know which one you pick but the more important aspect is "Why?" so that I can decide which would be the pick for me!

[@VedanthB9]

Shelf Clutter I concur

[@ShelfClutter]

I still like to hear which you pick though! ;) Just emphasizing the why, which I think you did a good job on

[@pcpandemic3394]

keep going with these cage matches!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Well since you insist :D

[@Ottoppers]

@@TheKingofAverage this really is great content... i agree with PCpandemic... there are so many games out there, but nobody tells you, what games fall in the same category (best in class etc).

[@zacharymccoy4640]

This video was insanely helpful as someone who came in late 2020 to these games and had to figure out how to navigate which things to back. Thank you for what you do, these all look great!

[@TheKingofAverage]

I've only been in this space since around 2018 so I completely understand that! Happy to help :)

[@kossowankenobi]

Great idea. As someone shopping around for a lifestyle game in a sea of dungeon-crawlers, this was super-useful!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Really glad to hear it! :)

[@p.henrique9088]

Forgot to mention: I like the idea of the Cage Match!!! 100% approved!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Noted! Future videos would be 1v1 and go into more depth on pros and cons and differences between them with 1 winner picked - sounds like fun to me!

[@claudiavilleneuve7936]

Honestly, weren't it for you having covered Stormsunder so thoroughly, I don't think I would've backed it :) Simply because the price is intimidating for someone who doesn't have a steady play group. I am kind of curious to compare it to Bloodborne and Etherfields though, especially strategy wise. Keep on making these cage match, I do find them interesting. As for theming, any you find interesting is bound to interest me, wouldn't be subscribed otherwise haha. Great stuff as always!

[@TheKingofAverage]

That's super awesome to hear Claudia, glad I could help show something you'll end up liking :) Stormsunder is actually perfect for a group that doesn't always get together, or struggles to have everyone every time. The Wordsunder portion summarizes well in case you haven't played in a bit, and because you are playing characters, not "you" people can drop out an in without issue as well. I all-in backed both Bloodborne and Etherfields, so only a mater of time :D

[@claudiavilleneuve7936]

@@TheKingofAverage The King of Average It happens I did so with all of them myself, so solo wise, I cannot wait to have em all to test! It is interesting though that at least no matter the player count the story can go on with Stormsunder, much easier indeed to play whenever. Like bloodborne in a way :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yep always 4 party members, but who's in your party matters a lot story wise as well so you'll be swapping them in an out often. For instance in the demo you have to go to a place at one point in Tarpitt the vampire city. Best to probably have a vampire in your party to tag along so you don't look like a bunch of strangers trying to cause problems ;)

[@Bandit-137]

Great video KoA! I backed 4 out of the 6 and thought you did a good job breaking them down. We are lucky to have such a rich field of games to choose from!

[@shattuckkuzmic9193]

I have been craving a large campaign game, but I balked at Middara because of the math exercise for attacks and the inordinate setup time, but Stormsunder really got me with the custom insert and easier combat and the fact that character development is more prevalent. Rather than playing a story how the people are shaping/reacting to the story. Excellent cage match!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Glad you liked it! :D Sounds like SS is indeed a better fit for you :)

[@Littlebean-t2t]

Perfect timing , needed something to listen to.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I got you covered ;)

[@nicolasl]

I already have Tainted Grail (and waiting for 2nd wave content as well), plus waiting for Middara. I was really interested in Oathsworn, and was really(!) close to backing Arena: the contest yesterday. But basically due to what is also the essence of this video, I felt like I had to draw a realistic line of what makes sense to back compared to the speed at which I play my games. Not to mention, I always have a bunch of other games I'm waiting for, and with games like ISS Vanguard on the way that is 99% a must back for me. With that said, I'm glad that the market is thriving, and there are so many awesome options available for us to pick between. Much better than a drought with no options at all :)

[@michaelmueller260]

Well done sir! Thank you for your efforts, they are very much appreciated! I definitely would like more comparison videos like these. There's a chance (albeit slight) that they can help stem the bleeding from my wallet!

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha or cause more bleeding ;) Glad you liked it! :D

[@michaelmueller260]

@@TheKingofAverage By far the more likely outcome! :)

[@wbeytel]

Fantastic comparison Michael, thank you so much for this. I am definitely backing Stormsunder now. Just the base pledge for now, I already backed Arena and Conan so my budget is completely blown.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I think honestly most should unless they can and feel strongly about it. Can always add the expansions after you get the first game in Wave 1 which is nice. Glad I was able to help you find a game you'll like! :)

[@wbeytel]

@@TheKingofAverage Backed! Oh, I almost forgot to mention that I'm 100% for more such comparison videos in the future.

[@the250mikec]

Love it. Amazing breakdown. Don't really know about the cage match every game has it's spot. But if you wanna do it, I'll totally watch it. Rock on

[@Shayden52]

I normally don't play these 100+ hour narrative games, because of how much of a time investment they are. When you get it you have to invest months of your life into it and it should preferably be played every week since you otherwise forget mechanics or story beats. Your friends need to have this much time too. Still, I decided to go all-in on Arena in February, because of the versatility of the game. You have an awesome skirmish game, many one-shot campaigns, a lot of different game modes and the high-fantasy theme means that all the minis can be easily used for D&D too. It would be harder to use the off the wall character designs of Tainted Grail or the anime style of Middara outside of these specific games. With Arena, I can always just play a round of skirmish here and there or a one-shot coop campaign and eventually I can also tackle the epic campaign. I would still be super interested in more Cage matches!! For example skirmish games with Hate, Arena, Mythic Battles: Pantheon etc. or dudes on a map type of games like Blood Rage, Rising Sun etc. It's been more than 3 months since the last Cage match. Can we expect more soon? :)

[@arcubal]

Nice overview, really appreciated considering the huge amount of story-driven games that came out last 12 months. One caviat though: for a 'Narrative Board Game Cage Match' there was almost no significant coverage on the actual narrative. Page count, hours played, narrative components (cards, booklets) and structure (before/after and/or intermittent, just a paragraph or whole pages, etc) - those are the things I really wanted to see. Only around minute 24:00 did you get a little into it for Arena. Then again, I'm pretty self-informed so I already knew what I am backing and what not. So far, only Stormsunder I'm not backing cuz of it's generic fantasy theme and extremely high price (Oathsworn I chose standees btw) but I love the amount of story choices and humor they employ. Something has to give though after backing Middara, Arena, Tainted Grail, Etherfields, Sleeping Gods, Cultistorm, Assassin's Creed, Oathsworn, and Aeon Tresspass (also just the core box cuz those guys know how to charge a lot of dough).

[@b92303008]

A very elaborate rundown. I was on the fence whether I should be that crazy to back/late pledge 4 of them. Now I am determined to go all in. I blame you.

[@TheKingofAverage]

HAH! My apologies :) I'm right there with ya though! all of these have their own space on my shelf.

[@Jsleezy_2000]

I would love see more of these VS videos. I haven’t seen anyone else do them.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Consider it done :D

[@sebastienvivas9319]

Loved the video! Being someone that has backed all of these kickstarters, I"m excited to do my own Cage Match when I get them!

[@TheKingofAverage]

HAHA well don't do a literal cage match with 'em :D Right there with ya though, love having access to so many cool narrative games.

[@tttopolis]

Dude! Thank you so much for doing this!

Nice! More of a step by step comparison than a cage match. I was expecting a "game 1 has the best minis, game 2 is best for short sessions, and so on." Now it is more of a "6 super games vs your wallet+spare time". It sure sounds you like all 6 of them. Well, I do feel informed! Good job.

[@yuarthur455]

was looking forward to this kind of brutal comparison too…

[@TheKingofAverage]

That'll be the future 1v1 ones where I'll list some good and some bad of both and pick a winner and explain why :D What I'm most looking forward to is actually you guys commenting to say which one you'd pick and why. I'll find that absolutely fascinating :D

@@TheKingofAverage I will have to write when I have tested Arena the contest and compare it to Mythic Battles Pantheon. I have had real fun with MBP, so it will be fun to compare. The pvp in MBP i find excellent - epic, quick, tactical and vere good looking - but I kind of miss pve and minicampaigns. Maybe the are hidden in unopened expansions, can be found in home made scenarios, or Arena does that bit better. Have you had time to play MBP or did you only unbox it?

[@herkulesp]

I'd love all the vs you could come up with! Yeay!!! :D

[@tttopolis]

Wow! Might end up dropping Storm Sunder and go get Aeons Trespass resspas Odessey. Going to go back and watch your review.

[@TheKingofAverage]

oooooh would love to know what you decide dude!

[@tttopolis]

@@TheKingofAverage after more review I decided to stay with Storm Sunder, I'm glad there are more than 6 Heroes to play as, that was sort of my biggest hang up

[@flex2themax]

Brilliant video, thank you! One thing struck me. When you mentioned humor in Stormsunder, it reminded me of the same chuckle humor in Chronicle X. After digging I realized Archon is doing the plastic production for LSG. I really really really hope Archon had no hand any of the gameplay rules.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Archon has no hand in Stormsunder at all. I've spoken with the writer of Stormsunder, he's just a pretty quirky dude haha :D I also liked the dad humor in Chronicle X, though Stormsunder's humor is better than that (less meme driven as well).

[@flex2themax]

@@TheKingofAverage Hahaha that's brilliant. Thanks again.

[@p.henrique9088]

Thanks for this video King! Nicely explained. From all these games the only one I haven't ordered\backed is Tainted Grail. Not sure which one I would keep if I had to choose one though because I haven't played all of them yet. But I love them all!

[@ReciusErectus]

I just love Tainted Grail, my gloomhaven crew turned into my tainted grail crew in one play. Best funds spend ever. Happy to have seen your reviews to hype me to back it.

[@TheErnieforss]

I haven't watch this yet. But thanks for making this. Can't wait to watch this cage match.

[@TheKingofAverage]

You are very welcome, hope you like it!

[@TheErnieforss]

@@TheKingofAverage damn it, I was hoping you didn't pick stormsunde, just to save $450. But I'm glad you did. I'm a sucker to I.P. and usually the best games aren't based off of an I.P. which usually leads to not knowing what board game I should be getting because I'm not fimilar with it and dont know anything about them. Thank you again for everything you do. Talking about saving money backed out of arena last second, because i didn't know how expensive everything will be once the pledge manager open and I'm a completist. I heard it's a great game but I had to pass because I dont want to spend another $700 to $1000 on a board game. Oh, you where right on my conan post. You said that I would get a chance for the king pledge once people start dropping out. I was psychotic/obsessed last weekend refreshing the page over and over again every time I had free time. And I got the pledge. I'm one of the lucky 400 people.

[@DSK2007]

Digging this form of content. Literally entertaining and informative. Thank you KoA

[@Dave_W861]

I had never thought of game sin context of deterministic.... Etc, it was enlightening, plus thanks for writing them to the screen, that really helped! Cross up reviews of theme, e.g. a zombie games- dead of winter, vs zombicide etc would be awesome as I think people like themes- I like zombie based games, but games like wingspan I struggle to feel enthusiastic about.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ah great idea! I hope to do quite a lot of them actually if I can :D I'm right there with you on theme btw. It can be the exact same game mechanics, but if one game is about a viking hunting party and another is about farming sheep, I'd love the viking one and be bored to death with the sheep one :D

[@Luke_L]

Really appreciate these videos! Thank you so much! However, I don't appreciate the fact that I now have to give Stormsunder some serious consideration. I had written it off without really giving it a look, but I love the old-school Bioware games. Just not sure I can add another one of these games to my queue. I finally decided to back Arena just as the kickstarter was ending. Hmmm....

[@TheKingofAverage]

Haha that's life for a board gamer on KS lately it seems :D February was insane! It certainly has that bioware vibe with how the characters interact and their own personal character arcs. Especially the early Bioware ones where you could have optional party members, bad guys mixed with good guys *glares at HK-47*, etc :D

[@Luke_L]

@@TheKingofAverage HK-47! Good times for us meatbags! :D

[@heathsmith4864]

So excited for this! Thanks for putting the time in and posting it. I'd love to see more comparisons and cage matches. I think that's what I deal with most of the time, should I get this or that or should I just go get the older games that cost way less like Andor, Dragonholt, Runebound, Descent, ect.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Descent 2E was the first modern board game I bought :D

[@SWiggins]

I loved the video and I have decided I want to pick up copies of Tanares Adventures and Stormsunder. I tend to buy too many extra bits and was wondering if you could give a recommendation on what would be the best things to pick up for each. Do you just get the core box, or are the expansions essential? Thank you so much for making these videos!

[@marmank]

Nice video. I am dialing back this year and it seems to work ... sofar. I "only" backed two of these big games :)

[@mikevincent564]

Loved this, would like to see more of this style, thanks!

[@TheKingofAverage]

You can bet on it :)

[@Spidiculous]

In your opinion which is more fun Middara or Arena The Contest? I'm looking at both right now but can't decide.

[@takamichitakahata7116]

Hey there! The only game that I'm still not sure if to get or not is Middara (mostly because I already backed for the others except Tainted). Good video, but you should point out that those prices where WHEN on Kickstarter. Except Stormsunder, the others as of today are only avaliable in PM (I know you probably did this video before the end of Tanares, the Arena: The Contest expansion). In there, Midara costs $150 without SG. Again, very informative, great video, but this could lead to some missinterpretations.

[@eyoung6943]

For cage matches, I’d love to see something current Kickstarter against something that’s been delivered. That would be super helpful in helping us judge which campaigns to back. We’ll either be able to play the delivered game, or just read up on other people’s thoughts on it. We can then compare it against what you and the campaign present about the Kickstarter. I’m far more interested in direct comparisons on gameplay than I am on more subjective preferences.

[@MichaelJones-ti9fx]

Good video. I liked the way you broke out the sections. I’m already in for Tainted Grail and Aeon Trespass. Plus, I picked up 7th Continent during the warehouse sale. I’m off to other types of games. If I were to purchase more of these type of games, they would be Middara and Oathsworn.

[@michaeljoyce7548]

Loved this video! I've been fortunate and was able to back all of these (and All-In). I was feeling some regret, that maybe I shouldn't have backed A now that the campaign for B came around. This video has put that to rest, I don't think I regret purchasing any of these, they are all distinct enough to justify themselves for me. Now I just need a campaign for extra time to do all the painting and playing.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yep totally agreed, each one really stands on it's own in a multitude of ways. Time to play on the other hand.... :D

[@michaeljoyce7548]

@@TheKingofAverage I'm happy to hear your note about your wife, I also have to keep my wife in mind when I buy/back. She loves Bioware style games so I think Middara and Stormsunder are both going to be hits.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Oh yes most definitely that'll be the case. It's the exact style of story telling/story arcs she would like from those.

[@davidschenck2082]

I love the cage match idea. I would personally prefer the genre cage match to pit same types of games against one another. Give us other board game lovers an idea on what to choose over another. :)

[@Medjai_1457]

Cage matches are a great idea! different genres makes sense, but current kickstarters might be helpful too.

[@rudy6945]

Dude thanks! Didn’t even know I could still late pledge oathsworn! Just pledged the collectors edition!

[@miguelsalgueiro7429]

My dear King of Average! Thank you again for your effort in trying to help us to decide. I will pick up Oathsworn until the end of March. Then I will try to collect Arena and maybe Stormsunder in the plage managers, since I've backed both. Unfortunately I missed Tainted Grail KS and pledge manager are only open for backers :( In conclusion: I think with all the content in those games, me and my wife will have years of adventures ahead. We are slow players :) we're still playing Descent 2nd! I like that game vs game videos series. Have a great weekend.

[@TheCatHerder]

"Will March be as crazy as February was?" I'm pretty sure if you had been answered at the time you wouldn't have believed it. Thank you for the recap.

[@TheKingofAverage]

LOL! Funny seeing that now right?

[@aragornelliott8238]

Thanks for this video! As a point of reference which complexity group would Gloomhaven have fallen into if it were in that list?

[@jonathanfranklin461]

Fantastic video - you have clearly thought a ton about this topic - sounds like you are ready to create a massive flowchart for everyone to find their ideal game. Any thoughts on Folklore: the Affliction compared to these?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Haha yes I have :D I never did back Folklore. The game seems cool though!

[@TheKevlol]

I’ve just realized that Stormsunder will also be completely translated to German which is huge for me for the exact same reason you‘ve just mentioned. My wife is my most common game partner and she is not that confident in her English. So in general there is a bit of hesitation going into these kind of text heavy games. Well I guess if you recommend it, I have to go for it. :)

[@fugixi]

Great video! Keep up the good work.

[@CaseyNordell]

This was your best video yet, in my opinion. I'm not huge into minis, so it was great to see a broad focus on several categories. And I *am* into narrative games, so it's great to see these compared across those categories. We don't agree on everything (e.g. complexity ratings), but your videos are always very informative. For instance, I've studied most of these game extensively, and I *still* learned many things from this video. To answer your question: I think these types of videos make sense for games of a similar category which are all fighting for the same people's wallets. Perhaps you could do another Narrative Cage Match video once there are new Kickstarters out. Anyway, thanks for making this!

[@exist2758]

Great vid. Maybe put up a poll to see what the community thinks? Also, during the complexity part, you showed how they compared to each other (and explained why), but I wondered where some benchmarks like GH and Descent 2nd would have placed. Thanks for your efforts. All In on everything except Middara

[@darkholy44]

At this point two years later, is Stormsunder still your pick from this set? I am thinking about getting in on a late pledge while it is still open.

[@JohnKessler]

i like the idea of the cage match. first do a review of each game, which you already do. 1 - Pick a hand full of them and create a bracket for them. 2 - do a cage match picking the a winner. 3 - continue down the bracket till you pick an over all winner.

[@TheKingofAverage]

oooooh a bracket would be interesting to do in addition to more thematic one (two dungeon crawlers, two dudes on a map, etc.)

[@Aba19xx]

Any additional content is v welcome, especially comparing ones. P.S.: Do you have and played Zerywia?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I've not played Nerywia but it looks gorgeous! Covered it while it was on KS :)

[@sethpeterson8261]

I went all in on Zerywia as soon as I saw it. It's the most amazing looking of the upcoming games to me, and by far the most evocative art.

[@ByDylanYoung]

I know this is asking a lot, but, if push came to shove, and you ahd to pick just one of these to have a permanent place in your collection, which would it be? And which would be 1st runner-up. I ask because it will have an influence on my own decision. And I really appreciate you answering the (not easy) question.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Not easy for sure! And sadly my answer isn't a black and white thing, but I'll explain a bit :) I'd pick Oathsworn. Why? Because it was the most well liked in my group and it's honestly a great game. Also the price is crazy good. My personal favorite? Aeon Trespass Odyssey. The setting, story scope and hard-co-op system are all great there.

[@ByDylanYoung]

@@TheKingofAverage Wow. From the video I would have thought Stormsunder or Arena would have made the top picks. But not even a mention. Glad I asked :)

[@Tazdingo01]

Love the video. Thanks!

[@Charisma123]

This was an interesting video :) I've backed them all, but not received any of them yet (did 1wave on TG).

[@Kryptonite_V]

He, I did that, too. What were we thinking? Well, I know what I was thinking, but I was wrong. Can't wait for Tainted Grail! On all subsequent kickstarters, I paid extra for 2 wave shipping....!

[@leandrolip5063]

I love what you do with the channel. I have bought AT: O and Stormsunder, I have a lot of age to play them. What is the next table game of this genre take your sleep? (the next potential purchase)

[@TheKingofAverage]

I have my eye on Sankokushin: Five Sacrifices as the next big one on my radar.

[@AnkitGarg]

Excited, just started watching the video :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hope you liked it Ankit! :D

[@Indra_P]

Maybe do a video about comparison skirmish pvp game? like arena, mythic battles, rage, GKR etc

[@TheKingofAverage]

Great idea!

[@wingmansion]

Thanks for the comparison. I backed Oathsworn All-In, because I liked the game designer and sculptor duo very much. Both seem calm and enthusiastic at the same time. Also I like the family friendly low fantasy, the minis,the separation of story and battle, and the card cooldown system. I also backed Arena, but only the core box and the expansion for the story and hero variety. I wonder how Trudvang Legend (didn't back it cause I thought the bag building system would rather frustrate me) and Solomon Kane (backed the core box with some expansions for its coop play and theme) would compare to the games from your video.

[@wingmansion]

@vann tedd thanks for the detailed info. I'll wait for reviews of Trudvang Legends first.

[@paiklynlim3196]

I enjoyed these comparison for me game length setup tear down and actual play was one of the key choice to pick oathsworn. The others were too long and I knew will never get to the table

[@bartonalfredstone]

I have backed Arena but have heard it can get pretty repetitive during the campaign. I am wondering what you guys think and whether or not I should switch to backing Stormsunder. For a reference point, I actually loved playing Gloomhaven and really enjoyed the unique nature of the hero's actions.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Sorry this is late but: Stormsunder's story and characters beat the snot out of Arena. Arena's actual gameplay is anything but repetitive as their event system makes each session feel quite unique, but the story isn't as good.

[@bartonalfredstone]

@@TheKingofAverage Thank you responding. I may just back both. The pvp in arena might be the thing change up game play in a high school board game club I run. They love legacy games, but sometimes we need a break. Your videos have been super helpful in figuring out which games to bring in for them.

[@wbeytel]

Ooh, I have been waiting for this 😁

[@DenanTran]

Thanks for making this kind of video! It's very useful and informative especially for casual board game players like me who is slowly crawling towards these kinds of games. (Didn't know what high - low fantasy was, etc. etc.) On another note, if you do create comparison videos, I have a feeling that Middara and Tainted Grail aren't going to do too well. xP

[@TheKingofAverage]

Really glad to hear it was helpful! As a big fan specifically of low fantasy, I'm glad I could help spread the word about it :) Hopefully it made some sense :D So I should do a Middara vs Tainted Grail video I'm here? :D

[@DenanTran]

@@TheKingofAverage Sure! Since I subscribed I've been watching almost every single one of them! Not going to say no, :D (though I did back both of them already). I was surprised that you chose Stormsunder instead of Oathsworn! But I do understand that the amount of time the game gets on table and playing with your favorite ones are a huge factor definitely!

[@Gutock]

Definitely good content. Would like a 'best in class' series, KS and retail both OK, what you like.

[@firehrt]

Loved this, thank you. KOA do you have any thoughts about ERUNE, a new dungeon crawler on Kickstarter at the moment?

[@sethpeterson8261]

1st I've heard of it. The style if the minis look like they might work perfectly in Drunagor. Other than the square bases the artistic style looks like a close match. Might backing just for that alone. Need to find out what scale they actually are though

[@firehrt]

I hadn’t heard of it either. It just popped up yesterday. It’s giving me some Advanced Heroquest vibes - my favourite dungeon crawler of all time.

[@sethpeterson8261]

@@firehrt did you check out Chronicles of Drunagor? Heavy Hero/Warhammer Quest vibe with 3D dungeons, solo/co-op mode, similar art style but I'd say better overall presentation than Erune. Late pledge is still open.

[@firehrt]

No - I’ll have a look. Thanks!

[@DavidChachere]

High fantasy = big shoulder pads. Got it!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yep that's always a dead giveaway :D

[@roodkaak771]

great topic. very informative. tx

[@TheKingofAverage]

Glad you found it helpful! :)

[@aonline_abridged]

Cage-match series sounds interesting, I would be interested in genre or similar-but different takes on a chosen mechanism.

[@TheKingofAverage]

oooh I like the idea of focusing on a specific mechanism!

[@StepanKuchar]

Very nice video, I was really looking forward to the comparisons and am really interested in rock-offs between individual games. I really liked the comparison of randomness in those games, but I would appreciate taking it to another level (even though I am not sure if others will appreciate that much math :-) ). Even though the majority of these combat systems use dice, there are significant differences between their probability distributions. I was very interested in Aeon Trespass and I really really like the world and exploration, but I was significantly put off by the uniform distribution of their precision rolls (even worsened by using d10), combined with uniform damage rolls and uniform resource rolls. I also got a feeling that there is also randomness in story choices (roll a die and see what happened to you). I like stochastic combat, but I like it more if it is a bit more predictable, like normal distribution (e.g. sum of multiple dice rolls), or at least uniform with a smaller spread. In a way, some of these games are more random than others, even though they are non-deterministic. So I would appreciate attaching a randomness score to each of those games, ideally in different categories, like combat, story, exploration. This would make this video probably very long, but maybe it will serve well in those smaller one-on-one battles. BTW, Oathsworn’s use of division for armor and resistance is very interesting, when talking about mathy topics in these games. One of many reasons why I backed it as well :-)

[@911Gargoyle]

If it was up to me to choose? S.H.E.O.L. :D

[@MarquisDeSang]

Chronicles of Drunagor is slaying them all at this time. Why? Because not only the story and components are amazing, the gameplay mechanic is the best and most fun ever created for a boardgame.

[@TheKingofAverage]

False. The Gem and River system of Conan are the best, however CoD is very good as well :D

[@MarquisDeSang]

@@TheKingofAverage WRRRRROOOOONG. Conan has no SOLO, so it does not exist in my book. lol

[@ClintK.]

Yes please do this. All those KS ones I'm interested in. 3 I've backed want to know if I did the right thing. Backed Arena all in. Oathsworn i still need to finalize pledge. TG i did core box will get later this year.

[@alcovitch]

I dropped out of an all in Arena. the longer it went on, the more and more plastic was added the more i dreaded the 6-7 boxes of stuff i'd have to paint. Couldn't justify it.

[@ClintK.]

@@alcovitch I can understand that. I went for the painted big minis. I sadly dont have the developed skill set yet.

[@alcovitch]

@@ClintK. I paint minis. And these days i'm becoming a lot more selective of what I paint. Massive quantities of average minis and multiple copies of sculpts that are usually found in these games really don't interest me anymore. Could very well be a great game, but if i dont' have the heart to paint it, it will never get played.

[@Babeda23]

Thanks, as you did the Stormsunder Detail video I thought that there are so many comparable KS games around right now and 2 minutes later you introduced this format. Great choice :) It would make sense to have this for older games as well. I think about one video of Dice Tower with Tom and Co. as they discussed they Top10 games which replaced other games in their shelves. Since I do not have so much shelve space, I usually want to have the best game (for me) for every relevant game format. I would have loved to back Stormsunder... why don't they have a standee version? I will not paint all these miniatures and I will not play them unpainted! Oathsworn did a good job in presenting the standee option (Gloomhaven shows that they can look and be cool enough!). Ya, ya ... tldr, thanks :p

[@CB-yh3db]

I thinks it's more of a Royal Rumble than a Cage Match. :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hahaha love it :D

[@TheKingofAverage]

While I'm not going to answer all questions in a single comment as it'd definitely deserve a video I will have a general response :) First is that my future Cage Match videos will be 1v1 and go into far great detail. This covered 6 games and was already long enough so I kept it high level. As for story, I feel there's actually even more to it. How is the actual story itself? How well is it integrated into the rest of the game? What style of story is it? For instance, AT:O is a story about nations and politics and world saving and less on character development or personal stories. Stormsunder is about a localized threat and tons of character development and story arcs within that. Arena combines story with gameplay the best, having side quests in the combat part directly tie into story bits and such. Most othes have the story and the combat portion completely removed from each other. Pros and cons to each. In a 1v1 video I could definitely dive deeper into each one :)

[@jean-francoisblais7940]

Still trying to figure out what makes Arena special (pve wise) Aeon Trespass has the exploration and “city” management Oathsworn has the cool down mechanic Middara had the walls of text narrative Storm sunder seems to gave the party management Tainted grail has a really different combat mechanic Arena seems a rather simple dice chucker similar to sword & sorcery. What am I missing?

[@juniquemamab4959]

I would say the story and the combat mechanics (if you just "dice chucker", you will be destroyed, it is a hard game). So you must combine your heroes abilities and it's so much fun. Tanares is the best setting of any other, if you read the Lore Book, it is pretty impressive.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah it's one of those simple to understand, incredibly deep to play well sort of games. It all seems straight forward but the amount of possibilities you have to be effecient isn't so much in how many options are thrown at you but instead how the options you do have meld together over the long run. The "simple" dice mechanic plus base damage card system makes it much closer to being deterministic and less random. I'd play Arena if I want a very strategic almost puzzle like skirmish game. Definintely not for everyone as it lacks that "stand up and shout" dice swingyness, but it'll work your brain to an impressive degree.

[@jean-francoisblais7940]

Thank you for your answers. I still need to think about it. I already backed Tainted Grail (in french si I still don’t have my copy), Middara, Aeon and Oathsworn. I also like storm sunder. Too many interesting game, not enough money or time.

[@benja6902]

At 7:25, you skipped Oathsworn. I was looking forward to having you explain the mechanics of the one game I backed...

[@Muageto]

Have to say. I pledged for Tanares + Arena all in (painted, because I really don't have time, we'll see if the minis end up nice or crap). I'm also pledging Stormsunder. Father here too and I don't know when or how I'll find time to play them :p Hopefully some people in my Boardgames Association will be happy to play them :D Now, though, I'm broke :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Haha right there with ya :D

[@ew1258]

What are your thoughts on these in regards to solo play

[@TheKingofAverage]

Well I don't solo play generally, but as I stated in the video Oathsworn has a great mode for it so you get the full game but in a very well packaged way. If you are interested in solo I'd recommend Oathsworn without a doubt.

[@YTEEsenior]

How does Etherfield fit into this mix? Very narrative and exploration.

[@go2ars]

What do you think about Divinity Original Sin? There are not many minis but the combat and crafting are kind of interesting

[@StepanKuchar]

Hung Nguyen I backed Divinity, because I like the level of abstraction they use for locations that affects both exploration and combat. In fact, this is the biggest difference I see between all the games on this list (except Tainted Grail) and Divinity. The majority of these have grid-based combat, where you have to be very precise with your placement and you always contemplate if I should move one square/hex to the left or rather to the right, etc. In Divinity, you have just these max 8 locations and you are moving between them and don’t care about exact placement. It also unifies the exploration and combat. There is no zoom in for combat, zoom out for exploration, like for example in Aeon Trespass, Oathsworn or even Tainted Grail. Combat can happen anytime during exploration and catch you unprepared. Kind of like in Mansions of Madness, but more abstract. On the other hand, it is not as visual as moving on a map and requires more imagination to picture the situation. But damn, if you got a good story teller in your party, it can get pretty wild with the imaginativeness (similar to Tainted Grail’s approach to combat abstraction). I also expect good dose of humor in Divinity and having an actual cat as a hero is completely awesome :-)

[@cfosburg]

I would love to see Mythic Battles: Pantheon vs. Arena: The Contest (PvP mode). From what I can gather, it seems that Arena is a simpler, easier, more accessible version of Mythic Battles. MB is still currently my favorite game out of more than the 200 I own. I only play it about 5 times per year, but I love it! My gaming community consists primarily of my 13 yr old daughter, 11 yr old son, and 10 yr old daughter. They all have loved playing it in the past, although my son has grown weary of how long it takes to play. Long setup time. Arena, gives me the impression of being easy to setup up, tactically sound, beautiful player boards and cards, with abilities that are similar to the unique abilities each character has in MB. Sounds like this could be a perfect fit for something a little lighter, more accessible, and fairly quick to play.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I'm a big fan of both :) While they still aren't as good as HATE for my tastes, both have a great "recruit skirmish" style of fighting. Arena has a few more modes of winning (like a "keep the ball" style one, deathmatch, etc. and many more board variation possibilities, MBP has the larger pool to pick from. Neither have super quick kill times, but I found MBP to have longer in the tooth (depending on who you pick of course). In arena you can start defeating enemies pretty early on - though resurrections are possible. I will say they both play quite differently but I feel that's for the better. If you are starting to tire from MBP then Arena will most likely serve as a breath of fresh air for you guys :)

[@cfosburg]

The King of Average awesome! Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it. 🙂

[@alexaparicio12]

Which of the 3 has more innovative mechanics? And which one is better for solo play?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I mentioned this casually but Oathsworn would be my recommendation for solo play quite easily. Innovative is a broad subject. High level Arena plays differently than most other narrative games, but for a single mechanic I'd say AT:O's hard co-op mechanic is my favorite innovation of the typical "I'll debuff him so your attack hits harder" in a really fundamental way and I hope to see versions of it prop up in future games as it really helps kill the sense of downtime.

[@alexaparicio12]

@@TheKingofAverage thanks for the reply!!👍👍

[@Kryptonite_V]

Thanks for the video. As I mentioned before, I think you should compare to existing games as well (Gloomhaven). I backed three of these six games, but my playtime is limited... I'd like two of the others, too. But it was easy to pass on Middara, I'm not a fan of the art style. Looking forward to playing Tainted Grail this year, and Aeon Trespass and Stormsunder next year. Also, Zerywia, Arkeis, Etherfields this year.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ugh soooo many good games still to come out.

[@Kryptonite_V]

@@TheKingofAverage Absolutely! And I only mentioned the miniature campaign board games I backed in Kickstarter... Not the 20 other games I backed or those I buy in retail :p

[@filmsbomber]

I've got/backed 5 of these. Unsure about backing Stormsunder as I play solo & concerned about playing 4 characters simultaneously. 🤔

[@TheKingofAverage]

It's not super involved in that sense so playing 4 by yourself would be totally fine, especially for someone who plays solo often. The only real issue I could see is having easy access to your player boards. I'd imagine you'd end up sorting your cards more conveniently than to both sides and on top/bottom like you would when just controlling one.

[@filmsbomber]

Yeah I think it may have too big a table presence. It's a shame they don't utilise the same solution Middara did for the solo gamer.

[@TiagoSousa026]

This video made to remind me again my dilemma of buying or not the Oathsworn. I already backed AT: O. I am afraid that I like Oathsworn and miss the game or/and it get expensive when it reach the stores.

[@Verudar]

This is my favorite video on this channel so far!

[@eriksjogren800]

Thanks

[@henryjones8636]

I'll click on any video with Oathsworn in the title

[@TheKingofAverage]

*takes down notes* Understood! :D

[@Cekatiba]

Gloomhaven was my first board game ever (except monopoly, risk, catan and my own made boardgames as a little kid) and well.. Stuff has gone downhill since then lol. Just finished Gloomhaven, still have Forgotten Circles but putting that on hold for a bit since towards I got burned out by it. Just full pledged arena, I like that when everything is finished and I still like it, I've got a nice pvp game to play. Stormsunder core box for now, on the fence about it since it seems like a lot of reading. ATO core box, also seems so huge and I just don't now if after all those hours to get through cycle 1-3 (I believe), I still have an interest playing it. The itch for new stuff is also very big usually. Also it took me 2 years to get through Gloomhaven so I'm afraid I just won't have the time to get through it all. Usually only play with 1 other friend which I kinda dragged into it and as long as there is character progression and loot, he's up for it. Also bought Too Many Bones as a solo game, just love the very different tactile feeling and trying out different builds. With Gloomhaven coming up next month I'm also on the fence about. Not sure if I wanna play the new stuff next year or go back to my first love so to say haha

[@sethpeterson8261]

Great video! I looked hard at all of these (was even all-in on Tanares but canceled), but decided the best for me are the others also available: Village Attacks + Grim Dynasty Sword & Sorcery IM + AC Chronicles of Drunagor Zerywia Conan the Conqueror I went all in on all of those instead. To many games!

[@chancebaker6042]

I thought you might throw in Etherfields in this as well?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I had to limit it somewhere and that'd have made my thumbnail have an odd number :P Seriously tough, I just tried to pick what people were most asking about and Etherfields didn't come up once. I totally backed Etherfields all in though so looking forward to it's eventual cage match :D

[@Chodor101]

Oh a new video, time to watch :D

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hope it was worth the wait for ya :D

[@dbsm206]

I like stormsunder, but the fact that there are only going to be 3 expansions bums me, While arena is on it's second expansion and their site says there are more to come.

[@BalkanBiker]

The thing is, Stormsunder expansions are huge, if they can even be called expansions. Each expansion adds more stuff than the core game.

[@dogaer309]

Isn't middara based on manga style? I mean anime is actually animated (tv series/movies) manga right or atleast alot of manga are made anime? correct me if I am wrong tho.

[@TheKingofAverage]

You could say either one I suppose. Traditionally manga is not colored but instead just black and white and Middara's covered so I can see both being applicable. Here I just meant Anime as in "Japanese based drawing style" :)

[@toddcontino7271]

Don’t seem to positive on Middara through the video…didn’t get as much information on about half of the point because “well it’s anime, so there’s that.” Haha