Natlan Finale Chat - except i go on too many tangents and may have to come back later

[@TheCsel]

I was really hoping Ronova would be like…. “Oh hi Paimon” and not elaborate further. Just to mess with fans.

[@jsw973]

The only reply to that would be a silent Paimon with ????? In the dialogue box, and no one else ever acknowledging it, just like how they never acknowledge how weird Paimon would be to literally everyone

[@Yozhio_Sunny]

To be fair, she doesn't even acknowledge the traveler. Someone who slowly but surely getting stronger to match the heavenly principles and one of the few to witness the destruction of Khanri'ah. He only acknowledge three people: Mavuika, Lord of the night and Thrain

[@joshuaprencillo2269]

​@Yozhio_Sunny Agreed. I was literally waiting for Ronova to say something about the traveler as a descender but she doesn't even care. 🤔

[@Nightspeed99_]

it would make the most sense if columbina was sent to retrieve the pyro gnosis. the rank 1 harbinger lost to mavuika in battle so it cant be taken by force, but remember what scara said about columbina and human consciousness? columbina may not be as strong as the captain BUT her abilities mess with the human mind and mavuika happens to be the only human archon. plus we were recently given lore about angels in natlan.

[@jiggyjgar1704]

Your description of Ronova at 2:10:00 is the greatest thing I’ve ever heard 😂mostly bc it’s so spot on that it isn’t even funny , she literally hates her job and is just sick of the nonsense lmfaooo

[@sakura_branches]

i kind of disagree with arle not applying pressure in fontaine. yes, she wasn't a fully antagonistic force and yes she had fairly little screen time, but she's actually the cause behind a lot of the major plot points in the aq. the whole reason lyney and lynette have that performance in the opera epiclese in 4.0 is because she wants them to investigate the oratrice. arle applying pressure on furina after childe's arrest is what led to us investigating meropide. and arle is the first one to actually suggest that furina wasn't the hydro archon. and while she gets very little screen time, i think this works for her character because she's supposed to be a spider, lurking behind the scenes and pulling the strings, manipulating ppl into doing her bidding

[@mavty2202]

Completely agree! The way she acted was a lot more similar to Dottore than Scara or Childe. She was behind a lot of stuff and her pressure on Furina was on point

[@vukkicos5688]

She also sent us to explore the ruins where the prophecy slates were stored. Needless to say, she indeed had a lot of influence over Fontaine AQ

[@uchosewiselee6776]

Agree. She gave up pressure when she realized Furina didn't even have an ounce of power and basically knows she's just a stand in. Then proceeds to further investigate the opera house. Furthermore, her mission was firstly to protect the nation from the prophecy and secondly to retrieve the gnosis

[@garyscott9328]

couldnt said it better, completely agree people forget that she went for the kill and only after discovering that it was for nothing she retreated

[@F1ll1nTh3Blanks]

I think Ashikai is meaning in terms of impact and presence. Arlecchino doesn't come close to Childe, Signora and Dottore in that sense, even if ultimately she was an important hand in the quest. She just wasn't a significant driver or force like they were.

[@Melio160]

To me, capitano meeting his end here would not be a problem even if it is a bit frustrating, for the reason that one of the main qualities of genshin in my eyes is that it feels like a living breathing world, and doesnt entirely revolve around MC. Capitano has had his story arc, a really long one of over 500 years, and it ended soon after meeting MC. The world existed long before we first reached teyvat, and it still does whenever we're in other parts of the map. I also disagree that all the harbinger should represent a threat or a pressure, it has been stated multiple times that each harbinger has its own motives, and do not necessarily align with each other. It is true that lower members felt a lot more threatening, but it is really common that lower ranks in any organisation are a lot more devoted to the boss to prove themselves while the higher ranks are more free spirited and follow a lot more their own agendas.

[@Justakatto]

exactly. I think ashikai is missing one crucial point of genshin. We the player is a _traveler_ the story doesn't revolve around us, we are simply witness to it. I love capitano so incredibly much but I don't want him to come back. Because he's suffered for 500 years, yearning death but being barred from it. His final wish was death. Making someone like that come back is beyond cruel in my opinion. He has lived long enough. Let the man rest. I completely agree with what you about harbingers. And its been all but confirmed that the tsaritsa and in turn the fatui's enemy is celestia. And other archons knows this which is why people like zhongli willingly gave away their gnoses to the harbingers. This was also hinted in an event voice line by ei about a coming war of sorts. If Ei knows about it, its hard to believe the oldest archons zhongli and venti are unaware. So yes its basically been confirmed that despite how the fatuii come off as, they aren't exactly an evil organization. They just are willing to go to the extremes to get things done. I'm honestly incredibly disappointed in most of ashikai's takes in this one. capitano is far from a boring character. man was a legend. I genuinely believe that If his story didn't make you shed a tear and respect the hell outta that man, you are a psychopath. His actions were heartwarming until the very end. He was an incredibly well written character. Also about Mavuika. She's most certainly not perfect. She doesn't care about herself and was even willing to sacrifice herself to save Natlan. How is that perfect? A perfect character would save herself as well as the nation with her own power and ability. In the end it was capitano and the lord of the night's intervention that saved mavuika. Also, i have a question. Why are people so obsessed with flawed characters? in the grand scheme of things, when every prominent character is flawed with not a single perfect character; isn't that a flaw of the story itself? Mavuika isn't a mary sue but i wish she was. I wish she didn't need the traveler's help to defeat the abyss. I wish she could've done all the stuff herself without the help of the ancient name bearers, capitano, lord of the night and the traveler. Would've been nice to see a perfect OP character in genshin for once. But she wasn't that. Yet people still seem to have problems. I think the core issue is that natlan since release was hated by a certain group of people and they are fanning the flames of hatred toward natlan characters and quests to fuel their own agenda. In this mix are the [insert region] puritans who sees one good things spoken about natlan and sees it as an attack on their favorite region. I think its a combination of these things and the missing EN voice lines that are responsible to this whole mess.

[@genshin_lore_enjoyer]

Arlecchino's pressure was not on the whole nation, Fontaine. But on Furina and Neuvillette. And I felt this pressure was enough. These scenes with "tea party" were SO impactful on Furina stability, on narrative pressure in whole delivery

[@AkhileshMaganti]

Completely agree.

[@garyscott9328]

yeah she was aplying pressure as a diplomat knows how to apply it without making a scene but capitano i dont know what it is but i didnt feel any pressure from him and if he wasnt the first its a ok but he is the damn first fatui harbringer

[@Daisy999]

@@garyscott9328 Yeah but like arlecchino we also think that furina was not doing anything. Thats the reason for the pressure in first place. Furina looked like she is just enjoying herself. but mavuika work shows . Looks like Capitano does think he is working but he thinks she isnt working fast enough . He is questioning her method not she isnt doing anything. We never knew Furina had a plan or not but capitano does know mavuika has a plan but he thinks that She is working too much with luck and i agree with him.He also understood the risk with his plan too but he thinks that saving humanity is more worth. We always knew arlecchino wanted to save fontaine but until end furina never looked like that but from the very start we knew that all people are working to save natlan.

[@TheCsel]

@@genshin_lore_enjoyer I feel it was the same pressure the Fatui were doing in Mondstadt, pressuring the knights to take action to kill Dvalin or they would. Hoping to draw out Venti and the gnosis.

[@genshin_lore_enjoyer]

Totally agree that Natlan Story isn't completed yet. It feels similar kinda between fake Penacony ending and the Sparkle button thing. Not in a negative way, btw I liked this story, I liked this fight and all built up to this. But Capitano small screen time with such a rich potential to demonstrate his true emotions, his suffering in all these years (I understand why they didn't do it, to not change focus).. it gives me feelings Capitano time to shine is still in the Future. Also gnosis situation, Three harbinger (including Capitano) mentioned in this patch. Moon shatter stone situation in the cave. I don't even start with Mare Jivary and Volcano

[@soulstealer5625]

Sparkles button was such a let down

[@Greennaris_Rater]

I'm sorry, but I just have to point out that there"s no non-negatve way to compare ANYTHING to the abysmal thing that was fake ending of Penacony, outside of it's real ending of course because that was even worse

[@NahualUlloa]

I kinda doubt we will fight against the pyro sovereign again in the volcano… for me everything points against fighting with the Sage instead…

[@Lukz243]

My main issue with Natlan's AQ is that the 6 chosen heroes had little to no chemistry between them and Mavuika (who was the epicenter of the story) didn't have any flaws, thus making her character flat. I wonder if the screentime were spent on the 6 heroes and treated Mavuika as a mentor-like figure who inspired change from the cast. Overall, good stream, loved the tangents, specially regarding the veggies

[@captaindanger13]

actually i'm pretty sure the heroes are friends. especially mualani and kinich. we at least know for sure those two were friends before the archon quest.

[@naboume466]

This narrative of Mavuika being too perfect or not having any flaws is very weird to me, we only saw Mavuika in the context of her being an Archon, a leader and yeah she is great at what she does the same as any other character in the game, but she is nowhere near perfect, I would understand if the criticism was that we didn't get to know her more as a person outside the war.

[@kyero8724]

We get a good leader after constant blumbering gods and yall call her a mary sue lol. Did you miss all the parts where she carried everything on her shoulders selfishly and had to learn a lesson that just because she has the role of leader doesnt mean she can carry all that burden. If she were a Man you would call her the goat. Like you do Zhontli who has no faults.

[@naboume466]

@@kyero8724 Honestly I don't even think it's a question of man vs woman, it's just one of those criticisms that people don't think about and just regurgitate until it spreads out and become accepted as "the truth", the reason being that some people are disappointed with the story. If Zhongli was the Archon of Natlan, he would be criticized just tye same. I do agree that Zhongli is far more "perfect" than Mavuika and this is a character we have known for 4 years, it's just that no one actually actively think about this argument.

[@AndrewTheUltraBoss99]

@@kyero8724 "her flaw is that she's too selfless" what is this? a job interview? that's not a hard lesson. IF she didn't trust others to the point of belitting others, that would have been a flaw, but atm she simply does what she does because she's so good and kind to everyone else. zhongli has flaws, like being unable to count money while being the god of money, not having common sense, acting like a weirdo to all the other normal folks... nah man, you are wrong

[@thatsnotveryfresh]

lotta comments saying it but the furina not being a real archon plot reveal would not have happen had arlecchino not been there. she was integral to stressing furina out to the point her facade would crack (and focalors plan succeed) lol

[@ashy969]

2:20:02 - Capitano might not refer to the LOTR dwarf...in Hrómundar saga Gripssonar Thrainn was the living dead king of Valland and wielder of Mistilteinn (sword). After growing old and tired, he sit down to his throne in his borrow with his sword - and became the living undead king. Then, Hrómundr Gripsson took his sword (after he defeated him). Thrainn killed 420 men with it in great battles and so did Hrómundr until his last battle with Haldingr.

[@TheCsel]

@@ashy969 yeah. Dain, Durin, Thrain, Dvalin all Tolkien dwarves but I can’t see any connections in Tolkien and Genshin except both referencing Nordic myth

[@rainblue4789]

in terms of bigger lore I really enjoyed natlan, finally getting major abyss conflict, the fake sky, khaenri'ah... but everything else just didn't land for me most of it is preferences but there's things I can't just explain as "taste" too, like weirdly arrhythmic pacing, most characters being so disconnected I didn't get attached to them, so the cool "unity" theme they went for was weak, mauvuika also seemed oddly flat? despite clearly not being so? idk how to describe it, and then of course capitano's low presence... man I am hoping there's one more big lore quest, even if it's not technically an AQ, because we haven't gotten to the last tribe yet, but that might be cope

[@fili7476]

My "problem" with mavuika in comparison to the other archons is that, even tho she's the only one who is human she also seems to be the most flawless. It might be because she's "compensating" for being "just a human" but she just feels too perfect.

[@wisconsinwintergreen6296]

I mostly agree, the actual lore and background felt pretty solid but the actual storytelling and character writing fell off a cliff

[@caseyimiller]

Forgot to mention spending too much time on a horrible celebration and dance

[@Jack_Ss]

I hadn’t played since 5.0 so doing the rest all at once was maybe a better experience but I don’t hate Natlan as much as other people. Yes there is a lot of disappointing elements in the Archon Quest but there were some cool moments too. I liked how many people just straight up died. Yeah they were NPCs but it was heartwarming seeing Atea and Chuychus ghosts help you in the Night Kingdom. As well as seeing the 2 scions of canopy bros reunited. Och Kan is also really cool when you explore it. But they really did completely mishandle Capitano.

[@71775926]

The thing that made the least sense about the whole story, and I'm Chinese so I played in the Chinese VO, and it still doesn't make sense, was that the price for using Ronova's power was Mavuika's death. What Mavuika bargained for with Ronova was HOW she was going to die; which is for her to expend her life force to extend the life of the Lord of the Night, which Ronova granted. Then the game decided to do this weird bait and switch. Thrain's goal is to rework the rules of Natlan's ley lines by becoming the new Lord of the Night. Although that would be the same way Mavuika wants to die, Ronova did NOT say Thrain could pay Mavuika's price for her. The price for using Ronova's power remains still the death of the user, the death of the Pyro Archon. If Thrain wants to give his life force for the Lord of the Night and the latter chose Thrain's lifeforce over Mavuika's, Mavuika would have to die in some other way to pay her price! Because Ronova's price was never exactly how the Pyro Archon had to die, simply that she had to. So Thrain offering to give his life force for the Lord of the Night had NOTHING to do with the price Mavuika had to pay. Sure, the paradox would still have occurred and Ronova would still have to decide whether Thrain dies or not resulting in Thrain still getting his revenge against Ronova. But it's like Ronova just plain forgot Mavuika STILL had yet to pay the price for using Ronova's power.

[@Dazaiburger]

That's what I thought too idk how the archon who's the one using ronova's power gets away with it without any consequences

[@ArthurAtlas]

Didn't she say that Xbalanque's debt had now been paid? That was the part I was confused about cause it kinda flip flopped on where that debt came from and who has to pay it

[@thesugarcubesaga8906]

2:16:01 ok if this scenario for Durin’s revival doesn’t happen I will be disappointed now (I’d do anything to see Wanderer and Childe post-irminsul deletion)

[@itsgin59]

My opinion and maybe small rant: I think the problem with natlan is the pacing. They tried to be straightforward as possible that they failed to give a proper build up to the important parts of the quest. For example is when citlali just explain mavuika's situation at the end then teleported us to ochkanatlan, they should've made it a little bit longer by looking for mavuika and asking people to build up tension that she is missing. Some dialogue are useless such as the old man doing a long ass story telling at the end. Also when the traveler lost to the dragon, instead of doing a weird scene they shouldve put a cutscene where the traveler literally died so its easy for people to navigate their emotion (i saw a lot of streamers getting confused on that part, me as well). I also agree on capitano situation where even if his story ends or not, his part was very bland and even though i like the character it was hard to connect to him since we don't get to hang out with him during the quests, so even though i like capitano i feel disconnected when he "sacrificed" himself. Nevertheless i still like it overall lmao, its the loreee brehhj the LORE that is important, the lore that is being fed to us. Also on the other note. I think the Archon Quests are made for the General Population's pallette so its easy for majority of people to digest because ya'll know damn well on how some people reacted to that one sumeru world quest where the traveler and jeht wiped out a whole clan where jeht belonged to. Edit: i would also like to point out that they put the important parts where we can connect to mavuika more in the youtube videos. I know hsr and zzz do that which is fine but i just think that doing that in genshin is a really really bad idea because for me its like a shortcut in the process of getting to know a character by putting outside the game instead of incorporating it inside the quests.

[@StarsInSummer]

Thank you!! I agree with your take and the alternatives that could have worked better. But yes sadly the general player might have complained about the story being "too long" or "dragged" out if so

[@coral_cryptid]

This might explain why I felt strangely disinterested with Mavuika's character as a whole during the quest. On paper, a human turned archon that sacrificed her past to ensure the future of her nation is a really interesting concept but its execution felt is more underwhelming.

[@soulstealer5625]

@@StarsInSummer well they could have cut down on all that filler before the battle, make that go down smoother

[@soulstealer5625]

@@coral_cryptid she just feels like a mary sue and despite being human, feels the least human

[@itsgin59]

@@StarsInSummer yeahh to be fair, the quest being straightforward is not really the problem its the small details that leads to the important parts. Its like building a furniture, you have the right parts and everything but you mixed up the screws and some small parts so in the end you get the whole gist of the furniture but the foundation is weak and whole furniture look a little bit wonky. Plus, its not really about the people who don't like it since you can't please everyone, its about wether people likes every part of the quest or they liked the quest but had some problem with it.

[@ArtificialLight]

My take on hoyo game's story telling is that games like Genshin and Star Rail are still being written like a visual novel just like the majority of gacha games despite having the ability to do full in-game cinematic cutscenes. Heck, even Wuwa suffers from this despite having the best in-game cutscene system right now. While ZZZ does multiple things from VN to comic to multiple full-on high-quality cutscenes to keep things more interesting and is clearly trying to emulate the feeling of watching a TV show/anime.

[@TheCsel]

@@ArtificialLight I feel like Genshin took open world rpg a little too seriously. And because it’s so vast they felt like they had to fill out the world and give players something to do. So everything is diluted across the world, quests, rewards, lore, everything. But many things feel like filler, padding the time it takes for players to finish it. While ZZZ is a comic book in appearance and storytelling. You don’t have to explore for story, you just need to turn the next page and the story is there right in front of you.

[@EchoNoir-]

Instead of straight up recaps, my ideal type of video would be a breakdown of whatever new thing had just dropped like quests, events, books, notes in certain areas. Like just simplified explanations and clarification for important things we learn; names, words, actions, motivations, outcomes, reveals, certain scenes. And how they fit into what we know, all the connections they have, speculation/simple theories as to what they could further mean, real life connections and just all of their lore relevance as far as we can tell. You know, compared to the normal fully scripted, topically driven, super deepdive, all nicely structured mega theory vids (which I of course would still very much like). Cuz then she can take a lot more time with those ones and just do these new types of videos kinda like how she does here on streams, essentially just answering our questions but a lot more focused and formatted. Like Lantern Rite or that new boss fighting event with that kid from Nod-Krai giving us information just like Ranjit did with Natlan; a short video just going into whatever we learn from those or can make connections to would be really helpful, rather than having to wait for it to be mentioned as a small part in some big theory video and even then only if it's relevant. There's so much I've learnt about and had clarified from her just casually mentioning it in a video or livestream and I think well damn, it would've been cool to have a full explanation of that back when it first happened. Like Mav needing the six heroes' ancient names in particular to accumulate 500 years worth of memories for her plan rather than just the whole of Natlan in general, understanding that really solidified the plan and made it make more a lot more to me in my head but I never would've got that without catching it in a livestream. I know there are ppl who kind of do all this already and I'm pretty much tapped into everyone anyway but having it all in one place from her as "the gold standard", if you will, just makes all a lot more cohesive and like I'm actually on the same page.

[@barbaraandsteven8596]

Imagine they mention the pyro sovereign beforehand but make it funny… Mavuikas just like “at least I’m not fighting the mighty pyro sovereign.” Gosoythoth: *turns into the pyro sovereign* Mavuika: “… oh.”

[@Vintagestep]

I forgot that we got new voice overs once the archon quest is finished in Natlan, I'm going through them and Ei said she met Mavuika in the battle of Khaenri'ah 500 years ago... Maybe the secret that she's going to share with the Traveler has a relationship with that moment, that's be so cool.

[@Chaffee738]

Eh I don't really agree with the Fatui pressure thing. I do think they could have used the Harbingers more, but the trend is quite clearly us becoming closer and closer to them.

[@_dragonflies_]

Well, they could've showcased it more then. Right now Capitano is definitely underdeveloped, whether as an enemy or an ally.

[@soulstealer5625]

@@_dragonflies_ could have removed fatui from his identity and the story would barely have to change

[@_Lupical]

I don't think it's copium to assume capitano isn't gone gone. 1- he had a nice arc for a khaenrian, but a very underwhelming story for a fatui harbinger, especially the first one (didn't really do anything to pursue the fatui's goal *yet*, even when he wanted the gnosis it was to fix the abyss situation), not to mention the fact that the tsaritsa doesn't consider him dead and still reserves the first seat for him. 2- capitano is lead to the place where he "dies" by ororon who is very much bat themed, which is symbolic to how hunahpu gets his head cut off by a bat, but later on xbalanque retrieves his head and saves him, which I think means that mavuika at some point will go to the lord of night (which is now partly capitano own conciseness) and ask her to let him take back control or something cuz she needs his help and from that point on instead of him having hundreds of voices screaming in his had he'll only have the voice of a literal angel up there

[@chiarasuper]

Spoilers warning regarding Capitano - take it for a grain of salt for what it is worth. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . There is a youtuber named Pehmon who has attempted the Albedo flower test on Capitano after version 5.3. The Albedo flower test is a test that indicates playability of characters - so far it has predicted Wanderer and Arlecchino's playability. If the character float = it's most likely NPC. If the character falls down and doesn't float = high chances of playability. They tested Capitano in 5.1 and he floated which indicated him being NPC. However, for some reason whether it was after 5.1 or 5.2, they changed his model to no longer float and instead fall down normally.

[@nyxsiren8403]

34:49 that npc has nothing that gives away he could be Dottore 😭😭 he says he respects Capitano and feels bad he held prejudice towards Capitano. However it's clear one of Dottore's segments operated in Natlan before they were destroyed, according to Natlan Fatui Research lab notes plus Chasca quest, that segment was the one who helped Tepal built the base in the sky. I also agree same VA doesn't mean it's same character. His disguise as Escher had different VA in every language.

[@otho69AD]

3:04:23 Bro's brain is actually fried, too much time in the echo-chamber 💀

[@Elfuego52]

@ashikai, with the Baal royale from sparkles web event, we get a mention of "tavyet" which apparently existed when the first aeons were around and has literally point for point raidens second quest as a story, so we can place it on the timeline :)

[@ronak5695]

i definitely do think there were a lot of rewrites for Natlan especially regarding Captain specifically. the whole thing just feels rushed in general. i would love to know what exactly happened and what the plans were originally from some interview but i know they'd never admit to something like that tho xD

[@YoOrangethatdude]

But how’d you a rewrite even happened 😂 tho

[@agatak4088]

YESS i wish someone leaked old natlan story

[@AkhileshMaganti]

I can't believe you refined the Jade Sword. OMG Edit: After listening more, i do not understand from where this belief came from that Natlan characters are less or under developed compared to other characters. Natlan characters are as developed as other region chars. But, the focus absolutely has been on their relationship with their tribe, their nation and their family/friends than with their self. Basically, Natlan is very much similar to LATAM and Asia in the sense that the collective is as important if not more than the individual. But, that does not make them less developed but just different.

[@jtojagicc]

Throwing Little Guy in the volcano sounds a lot like House of the Hearth ritual to me

[@PoliEllyana]

2:20:40 Thrain is a name of a dwarf king, Thrain II, who is a son of King Tror and a direct descendant of Durin the Deathless. Though I'm also not the biggest fan of Lord of the Rings, so can't make any further connections

[@Ashiyaphoenix]

Keys and witches maybe because of: -"Greater Key of Solomon" and "Lesser Key of Solomon" -song "The Magic Key"

[@kiyomi_kamimoto]

Like many in the comments, I disageee with Arlecchino being under-used in Fontaine - they already explained why so I'm not going to copy-paste haha I am disappointed in Arlecchino somehow though. I felt like her backstory/story quest was completely ruined because of the animated short that spoiled literally everything, so I was really bored throughout her quest, since I already could guess mostly everything. Childe and Wanderer also set her up to be a possible Fatui betrayer who was completely crazy and insane, but she doesn't feel like that. She's strict, has a traumatic past and has flaws as a parent, but she isn't what I'd call a "crazy", "completely insane" person who has "not a sane bone in her body." I felt like these were heavy exaggerations from them both, because compared to Scaramouche the Balladeer and Tartaglia the one who wants to take over the world and is obsessed with battles, she feels like the most sane of the three - though that's not to say she doesn't have her issues. 33:13 where does that even come from ? I saw no one ever mentioning that... 41:38 Probably not, because I don't remember it either... I didn't even know this was the Pyro Sovereign form, I'm learning things

[@captaindanger13]

I feel like the reason why the Beginner's Guide series doesn't do well is because it's called "beginner's guide." Also, i feel like that name is not accurate because that series is more so a summary of all the lore in that region rather than a guide. Maybe they'd get more views if it was called "[region] lore summary" since people who are not new to the game will be more likely to click on it if they want a summary of a region's lore so far.

[@coolwihp]

listening to ashikai talk about keys and witches as I see a key in genshin to start the event domain

[@genshin_lore_enjoyer]

4:11:26 so you and Ororon can talk about farming forever mhahah

[@captaindanger13]

3:00:18 i feel like this could be backed up by how Neuvillette calls Nibelung the "heavenly father."

[@sweatygoblin2335]

I very much enjoyed all of Natlan, and a lot of the complaints I'm hearing feel very bandwagony and extremely light on media literacy. We walked into Natlan in the middle of Mavuika putting her 500 year old plan into motion, and the events would've played out similarly if we'd not showed up in time - though it's pretty likely Mavuika wouldn't have succeeded, or would have done so much with many, many more sacrifices as a result. But I also agree that Natlan's story is nowhere near over, especially Mavuika's. There's been way too many instances of Mavuika being directly asked what she plans to do with her life in the future that haven't been answered yet. She planned to die and Capitano took that from her, and now she has to figure out what to do with her life now that she doesn't have an easy way out. edit: Also there's NO way that they're only gonna add one more zone to Natlan and that zone will have enough treasure chests to give us 20 whole levels on the Tablet of Tona. We know we're getting the volcano and Collective of Plenty in the same patch, so there's gotta be at least one, maybe two more Natlanese areas besides that. That means way more story than we may have initially expected.

[@al103]

Uhm... There is no difference between Natlan and Inazuma in how Traveller acted, only in how those around Traveller acted. Traveller hate when people expect something from him "just because" but always ready to help on his own. Inazuma was a big case of "you are big hero, SAVE US" with result of "not my job, go away". While in Natlan nobody expected anything from outsider... so no triggers were pushed, just usual readiness to help.

[@lumencordis4261]

Re: Recaps Your beginner’s guide to Genshin series is how your channel became one of my favorite KZbin channels! My partner and I literally sat down together to watch through the whole series. It would be great to have more of the series! (Even if only once per version.)

[@kallistiravenhurst5232]

random thought i had while watching this: venti's second story quest happening in natlan, potentially the mira jivari* [i am not looking up the spelling right now] this would explain why it's taken so long for his part 2, it's because we didn't have the nation it would take place in

[@BeejNation]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Ronova demanded Mauvika’s death as a form of repayment for using her power for the ode of resurrection. She didn’t have a requirement for how she died, so Mauvika offered to burn herself to sustain the lord of the Night. The Capitano offered to take her place in sustaining the lord of the night. But what I don’t understand is that Mauvika was fated to die from what I gathered from the dialogue, and I don’t see how Capitano’s “sacrifice” spared her from that fate.

[@franklynnn]

ronova never demanded mavuika's death specifically- the deal you're thinking of was made with xbalanque, not mavuika, when the night kingdom was originally established. the only reason mavuika was "fated to die" was because her plan the entire time was to repay ronova with her own life. had capitano not intervened, she would have died.

[@raline46]

i forgot where but someone said Lord of the Night never specify who must die in other translation. She asked for a specific price, and the one who has that is Mavuika. Then Captain shows up to have the same weight of the price as Mavuika, which is why Night Lord took him instead of Mavuika

[@sweatygoblin2335]

The consequence of using Ronova's power is that either the user dies or many people die instead, and Capitano effectively was one person but also many people - They never said how many souls he had in him, but we can guess it was at least a few hundred, if not considerably more. That's why Ronova was willing to take his sacrifice instead of Mavuika's.

[@erikastauffer8021]

I just realized something and must share it. If the afterlife of Teyvat is dissolution into a common consciousness in the Ley Lines . . . then Deshret reinvented death. He was trying to recreate a Garden of Eden paradise from before the fall of the Seelies. And instead, he . . . reinvented death. By creating the Golden Slumber. Probably separate from the Ley Lines, unfortunately. Holy cow is that on-point for his character and themes. Mr. Epimetheus. 😂😂 Only looking backwards.

[@vandallegions]

3:55:42 Irminsul tampering at work right there.

[@mr.unicum]

1:16:49 "Abusing the child builds character" type argument out of context lmaooo

[@lynn9265]

Natlan felt very strange to me. I think it started off quite good, and act 4 was amazing(!), but act 5 dragged the whole thing down for me, and all in all I find it severely lacking and full of missed potential/unanswered questions/strange pacing. Characters: -they feel disconnected from the npcs/the world around them -they don't have much in terms of interesting dynamics, narrative tension, colliding goals/ambitions. Just luke warm 'we all get along, but also not to an insane degree either'. No strive, no impactful arguments, nothing that really drives the plot much. -we had kachina gain some confidence, chasca grieving and building a better connection with her parents, and ororon being helped to see he has value beyond being a sacrifice... and then that's it. That's all the meaningful character arcs pretty much. Not a whole lot of personality growth. Inconsistent writing: -Citlali goes from normal, to slightly blushie, to a blubbering mess during that event, to normal during act 5, to slightly sappy during her tribal chronicle... it feels like they don't quite know what to do with her, and also like they sacrificed some of her characterization for marketability. Not a fan. -Citlali mentions to the master of the night realm that she 'needs the power of the descender' when talking about the traveler, so surely if she has that info she will not be surprised to know about us not being completely human/older than we look right? ->aaand then she acts all surprised about us being older than we look during her TC... -speaking of that conversation with the master of the night realm, Xilonen gets told that it will come at the cost of her life to forge the traveler's ancient name, and she answers that her life is nothing compared to the survival of natlan... and then this is never brought up again 🙄 -as someone who doesn't read every single book entry we gain from top to bottom, I had very little clue what was going on during the Gosoythot fight. This was so badly explained it was jarring. -while we fight gosoythot the traveler... dies? Like, we reach 0 hp and then suddenly the screen goes black, we switch to Mavuika's point of view, we walk very slowly during what was otherwise supposed to be a hype fight/buildup, we suddenly see the traveler alive in a different place, we gain a sword in a way that is never explained iirc and then bam we telelport back... not only is the constant teleporting around and complete lack of any explanation quite jarring, but it's also so odd pacing wise how we keep going from hype, to slow walking, rinse and repeat. -speaking of the traveler's 'death' in the night kingdom, you can ask mavuika about it afterwards. Y'know what she basically says? "Oh that wasn't the ode of resurrection's doing, I guess you're just build like that" and then there is zero further explanation at all! Then to top it all off Capitano gets a lore dump after his climax instead of anywhere leading up to it, in one big 'tell don't show' moment...fantastic. In the end the 6 hero's who were supposed to be 'oh so integral' to the plot, basically just stand around in the stadium doing nothing more than what the npcs there are doing. The traveler 'dies'(not really aparently) on Mavuika and then helps her lift a sword she seemingly would have had no issue with lifting on her own, like, I don't even know why we were there if I'm honest, she probably would've been fine fighting Gosoythot by herself. And it all comes down to this quote I've seen floating around: "you could've replaced everyone in the AQ, besides Mavuika and Capitano, with elemental slimes, and it would have made no difference to the outcome of the plot" ... and I hate how accurate that seems. So much felt redundant instead of relevant to the plot. The 6 heroes feel redundant, since they don't even join Mavuika in anything. The traveler does too, since Mavu would seemingly have been fine by herself in the fight. Even the traveler's ancient name feels redundant. And the death flags and tension that was created by the convo between the LotN and Xilonen? Also irrelevant in the end! Mavuika says she wants 6 heroes, she gets 6 heroes on time, doesn't use them, sets out to beat the abyss, beats the abyss, the end. No interesting plot points, no twists, no surprises. I pray that they manage to write compelling stories again like we had in sumeru and fontaine, before we reach Snezhnaya, cause this wasn't it.

[@kaito9836]

a whole dam essay wOW

[@sneakretster]

I read most of this but I had to quit at some point because it felt like you weren't paying attention to half of what was going on or how things were explained, and in some cases just misinterpreting or reading too far into things that don't need you to examine at the molecular structure... Like, I'm not gonna disagree and say that Natlan Act 5 was perfect or something, but I feel like you're harping on ALL the wrong things. Also, Citlali hasn't drastically changed as a character one bit since she was introduced, I have no idea where that's coming from.

[@Vintagestep]

Oh boy, a lot of what Ashikai says it's so simple, I've been saying a lot of similar things since 5.3 dropped and I get a lot of "what no sense are you spouting", like the Omnipresent god statue not being Raiden Shogun, but people just go "nah, it's her but the wings are just her ideal of eternity". I felt reassured because even if I don't go researching, I do like to think about what's being presented and form my own ideas, for example, I don't think either that Columbina is the one that will retrieve the pyro gnosis, but everyone mentions the Fatui wheel and all, when we all saw Dottore retrieving the Electro and Dendro gnosis and he's way ahead, true, we might have to face Columbina next, but that doesn't mean others can go and retrieve the gnosis, and yes I know, they're busy either in nod-Krai or with project Stuzha, however, to me it makes more sense to make a Harbinger that already knows the area take care of that for a moment, Mavuika was willing to destroy the gnosis, it was her original plan, and I'm sure she's willing to trade it once she learns it's the third descender remains and she's offered something of significant value. There's Dottore's lab in there, we also have Pantalone pulling the strigs in Citlali's tribal quest, to me it doesn't make sense to introduce another harbinger when we have hints of two of them already, and I don't think trying retrieve it with violence is the way they do it either after Capitano lost his match agaisnt Mavuika.

[@soulstealer5625]

Could childe do it? Hes itching for a fight and he needs to give info from Skirk. Granted if taking the pyro gnosis actually requires mugging Mauvika, they may need to send more harbingers.

[@HerrscherOfFate-x8p]

NPC literally said that was Raiden's statue and the Chinese version of the statue name is similar to one of Raiden's skill. In one of the short animations of Inazuma, you can see the same wings behind Raiden, they're just shadows but I still think it was supposed to hint at something. It's unlikely that its a shade since Inazumans wouldn't worship another god they have no idea existed

[@Vintagestep]

@ Maybe, but he's also busy with project Stuzha. But It'd be cool if he's paired with Pantalone, that would be quite fun to see.

[@Vintagestep]

@ The thing is that I don't necessarily think that the mortals have to know that the statue is trying to depict Istaroth, it's enough if Raiden knows it, worship is not just done by praying on the monument, enacting the monument itself is an act of worship imo. Ofc, the shades don't want their name to be spoken, so for Raiden it's easier to say it's her.

[@HerrscherOfFate-x8p]

@ The name that it was called still points to it being her and the thing is, Inazuman will be the one who had to build the statue iforit to be there. As I said before, Inazumans don't know about Istorath's existence, so why would they make a statue of a god they don't know. We know that Gods could shapeshift, so Inazumans probably built that statue in some period Ei shapeshifted. Besides, didn't Mavuika straight up so Ronova's name? It just wouldn't make sense for it to be Istorath, especially when she was pretty popular in Monstadt but doesn't have a statue.

[@saadahmad5775]

For clarification about the nod-krai being next region is that there has been a sus leak that 6.0+ patches are nod-krai and other nations little regions that we haven't seen yet. So thats why people saying snezhnaya is 7.0. Take it with a grain of salt as it might be true or completely false.

[@Flewfaraway]

I think it is fake because the map picture & size are very small same if it is true may be they will add more area in different regions and we go back at different places before going to cryo region

[@sweatygoblin2335]

@@Flewfaraway There's been leaks of placeholder landmasses for Nod-Krai and the northern parts of the map we haven't seen yet - and it's HUGE. Like considerably larger than Sumeru huge. More than enough landmass to split into multiple patches, including parts of Monstadt and Fontaine we haven't been to yet.

[@Daisy999]

The real problem I have natlan archon quest is about info about cataclysm. like except for zhongli and venti we finally found someone who can say things about the cataclysm. we have capitano and mavuika we do know that mavuika fought in cataclysm and she is the archon 500 years ago too so she might know something like zhongli and venti. after zhongli the other archons didnt participate in cataclysm in khaneriah finally we had someone to know things like we can ask capitano about our sibling or what actually happened. but nah. why/????

[@TheCsel]

@@Daisy999 I feel like this may be the “secret” the pyro archon will tell us. But it’s strange she did not already tell us.

[@captaindanger13]

2:36:31 nope. dull blade. you're talking about the cutscene for the opera song yunjin made about shenhe, right? also, i've only seen traveler have either a dull blade, silver sword, or prototype rancour. i've never seen him with a 5 star weapon in cutscenes unless it was someone else's like when Cyno lent us his spear during his second story quest when we were out camping.

[@icefire2941]

No not in Yunjin’s Opera. Look at the 2.1 Guoba cutscene. He has the Skyward Blade in it.

[@ashy969]

14:28 - For sure the whole Nathan story is disconnected and sorta makes no sense. Some parts individually are checking out, but then you try to put it together and ???? And I feel like Mavuika's story also missing parts that they tried to fill out with the teasers and some cutscenes quickly added. But Capitano first is sorta introduced like an antagonist. He comes, attacks Mavuika, then is shown being all shady. Then it somehow got explained away into him being Gigachad... I think, too, that he was supposed to have a transition via the crisis of Natlan but they maybe figured out that this way the archon quest would be too long, or they just missed deadlines or something? It is also odd that he was rumored to become playable and then didn't... For sure things got changed... But I do think they always planned for him to become the lord of the night 2.0. that fits the story just... E.g.... how that happens is also weird. That discussion with Ronova... Feel like there was supposed to be more convincing or maybe some fight or such that makes her change her mind. Because it makes no sense for her to just chill and go with the plan that screws over her own rules and precious actions... Maybe we would have had the fight with the dragon-imitation, die, then Capitano saves the day and we get also resurrected and then the 3 of us wins together. And as a prize he he can become the Lord of the night when he asks for it. I liked his ending but other than that, the whole Nathan questline was ???!!?!?!?????! They prob had one direction and then some idiot came up with some request - make the story shorter or less dark or people like Capitano more than Mavuika, that won't work for sales... Whatever... And then.... When you try to sit on two horses at once, you are likely to fall to the ground... Hopefully the Dottore arch will be more logically planned

[@lysgrey]

Hi I do really like recaps so that is 1 person who loves them!

[@TheCsel]

I also see a connection with Heavenly Principles and Catharism which (depending on what you believe is true) is very gnostic inspired and one of their surviving scriptures (assuming it’s real) is called the Two Principles. And refers to the two “gods” good and evil. I have always wondered then if the 1st and 2nd Descender are the Heavenly Principles in a sort of balance of power and set laws/contracts, after they fought to a stalemate and sacrificed the 3rd Descender

[@lamentofmidna8034]

1:27:19 Wait wait we know what erosion is now? I think I missed that somewhere, can someone explain what it actually is please? Or what Natlan confirmed about it?

[@bangtanssera]

not gonna lie it is frustrating how ashikai didn't bring up the memory in her head that tingyun has just been reincarnated in hsr cause I think it was really focused and poetically shown - the metaphor of her pain because of destruction having to be with her forever is just so great and awful at the same time - and because it was shown with lesser text people here and there undermine it and forget about her. idk it's not ashikai problem of course but how hsr writers didn't manage to catch majority's attention to this, thats all

[@k.d.farnsworth2573]

I know a lot of people call The Captain's insignia the three nails but for some reason his story and the insignia has always reminded me of King Arthur and the Round Table, or the Three Musketeers rather than anything religious. Is this just me? Because King Arthur became the king of Camelot forever after gaining a lot of regret and enduring a lot of burdens that he inherited from his birthright. Also, is it even confirmed that the Harbingers remember who Wonderer is, or could they have replaced him and are simply reluctant to speak about the Sixth Harbinger who took Wonderer's place?

[@mielikkistark7596]

Why is there no chat window?

[@eiko1490]

4:14:03 they want to steal but don’t know how to harvest them or they just want to mess up the crops 😢 either way WHY BRUSSELS SPROUT

[@SnaccWell]

Plot twist they send Childe to get the gnosis cuz they’re tired of him

[@milkbowl1976]

You are told by Mavuika that the people of nod-krai have powers which predate the seven elements so it won't be Dotorre's doing.

[@SecretAlienOnVoyagerOne]

18:15 that's charisma

[@caseyimiller]

I got to say it is so frustrating that the worst AQ in awhile comes at the same time as their most aggressive banner setup, like so glad that they are making good money even when the quality has dipped to the point that many don’t like Mavuika character

[@sladeTek]

ironically enough mauvika is the worst perfroming archon banner post-raiden and its by a long shot. She's only barely ahead of Xilonen by a couple thousand pulls as the most pulled limited Natlan character and both of them are very far from the usual banner pull rate of hyped characters.

[@kristianbailes2974]

ASHIKAI LORE SHE WAS A VEGETABLE FARMER?

[@readerofalltrades]

As a whole natlan has been my second favorite region after Sumeru, AQs have been solid, especially the war part, WQs have been peak as usual, Playing in the overworld has been an absolute blast etc. However, my only gripe with it has been the final fight with Gosoyothoth. At the time of playing, it was okay-ish. But afterwards I felt it didn't pack as much of a punch as the big boss fights in earlier areas. If they could have executed that well, I think A LOT of the criticism Natlan has been receiving could have been avoided by Hoyo. Fontaine is a great example of that. Welp I am a lore and world building enjoyer of this game through and through so even if the AQ misses the mark sometimes It doesn't impact me much. But kinda sucks to be only main story players lol.

[@humangarbage5987]

I would love recaps again! Some channels either push gimmicks, or pronounce things weird to appear different… whereas you provide substance. That being said, Hoyo is becoming more than a full time job to keep up with… so do prioritize sanity first!

[@christoph.gaming]

Is it just me or does Ashikai sound alot like Joy 🤔

[@patrickguillory8928]

This is quality content

[@GerriFuryman]

45:00 for me it was too short, and i think it was intentional because zzz is for zoomers, they make everything to appel for young and tiktok brain audience who cant read and focus on things more than few seconds. HSR is most dragging story, ZZZ is too short, while genshin for me is just what i want, especially after completing world quests. Natlan WQ for me wat best quests in genshin, final act of our dragon story is most hyped thing for me right now.

[@raline46]

how to give this comment more than one like!!! i don't mind with with the pacing of Natlan, personally. and i don't mind if they're dragging it either. but a lot of people's brain are rotting right now that they actually think this pacing is actually better. and if genshin dragging it to make it better, people will also complain. tbh no matter what genshin did, people will always complain

[@GerriFuryman]

@@raline46 Sadly this is what most people in social media think, because its old game already and many of them lost interest. But for me personaly each new region make me love this world more and more, and big part of it world quests. Which most people dont even try to do....

[@raline46]

@@GerriFurymanthis kinda remind me most of Genshin CC didn't even do Tribal Quest and it's so obvious on Act 5 lol They're missing out Bona, Nepheca, Uncle Nuu, etc

[@uchosewiselee6776]

Do you think Murata is the second pyro archon?

[@alisonrodrigues5956]

Ashikai idf if you play wuthering waves but, pls, we need you in rinascita

[@karjar5742]

Id largely agree with your opinion on Natlan. What I dislike about the treatment of Capitano is that they destroyed the mythos behind him. All the high ranking harbingers so far had authority in the narrative. When they spoke, I really listened. And by having Capitano be defeated within the first 10 minutes of his debut, and them showing us all there is to know about it at the end felt... off. Its just not what the nr. 1 harbinger should be, and I think it devalues all the other harbingers, makes them less mysterious, less unknowable. Sure, they can bring him back and give him shiny white armor and essentially pull a Cecil (ff4) but he'll never regain that mythos that a high ranking harbinger should have. And second, and this I think is far more subjective, I just really, really dislike Mavuika. I think shes a super flat character without anything interesting, she fits the trope of Mary Sue so perfectly its almost a parody ("My flaw is that I care so much", "Im just so reckless and hotheaded" - proceeds to never once be punished for her recklessness). And that dislike is bolstered because the actually interesting characters, Capitano and the first pyro archon, suffered under her perfect-ness.

[@soulstealer5625]

Someone noted the writing issues seem to pop out of the HI3 xps. I know Nahida has some with Theresa but the big proper XPS are Raiden and Mauvika.

[@HerrscherOfFate-x8p]

@@soulstealer5625 Callinng Mavuika a big proper expy to Himeko is just wrong, Nahida is more of an expy and has more similarities to Theresa than Mavuika to Himeko. Mavuika has references to Himeko but that's just it, there's not much similarities between Mavuika and Himeko. Mavuika is like Alihaitham when it comes to expies, there are some references to the so called character but they're not big expies such as Raiden and Nahida. The only difference between Alihaitham and Mavuika is that Mavuika doesn't have Himeko's same JP and CN VA's

[@genshin_lore_enjoyer]

Aether having star crown such a canon thing to do

[@mattbloomingdale6147]

Mmmmm first name slip?

[@astradewoodvale159]

Messy Nation and Horrible execution. I was so disappointed by the act 5 that it made me forget the strong points of the Natlan story beforehand. The fact that i was very hyped for Mauvika and Capitano as characters only for them to feel very flat and bland is probably why my disappointment of Natlan is so high. Anyways, 6.5/10 for me. Mauvika felt like the most stereotypical shonen protagonist that stopped evil with the power of friendship. Capitano didnt give rank 1 harbinger and immortal khaenriah supersoldier vibes. He felt like a side character even though they keep putting him in the banner art.

[@soulstealer5625]

Im not familiar with Shonens but people were saying Natlan felt like a typical shonen. If thats the quality of em, err not for me.

[@skyfever111]

we want ashikai to stream genshin impact for 12 hours

[@mirror550]

There are unfortunately a lot of issues with the Natlan Archon Quest from a writing perspective: 1. the very predictable narrative. This really is just a story about people coming together to beat up a big dangerous monster and save their nation. It's very straightforward plot everyone has seen or read hundreds of times before and thus unfortunately not very interesting or engaging for the majority of players. 2. the one thing you really need to do as a writer if you want to get people invested in such a story is to really make them care about the characters involved and I think this is perhaps the most disappointing part of Natlan: the characters are unfortunately rather bland and forgettable as a whole... they have great designs, they are nice and likable but they are all pretty one dimensional. Mavuika as the Archon is especially disappointing mainly because all of the other Archons are so much more interesting and memorable than her (even Raiden while badly written is still an intimidating antagonist during the AQ). She really is just a strong, capable leader willing to do anything to save her nation - but she is so powerful and perfect that it makes her boring. Although Hoyo has always tried to make Genshin characters appealing by giving them hardly any flaws I really feel as if they overdid it a little in Natlan. 3. this is a story about a war where only NPCs die. Especially Act 5 of the AQ keeps going on and on about the great cost it took to get to this happy ending but the problem is that us the players do not feel that cost because we only saw NPCs die in this war - and many of those like Vichama even died off-screen for some reason. They are literally just numbers us players do not care about so all of these emotional speeches about their great sacrifice don't work nearly as well as they should. They failed to make most players care about the war because no one of consequence died in it. 4. on a related note is Mavuika's sacrifice. The real problem with that plot point is that straight up no one believed it since Hoyo has shown a complete refusal to kill off playable characters for over four years now. It is almost impossible to worry about a character's death if we do not believe there is a chance of it actually happening - really the biggest twist of all would have been for her to actually sacrifice herself at the end because no one believed they would actually kill her off xD 5. Then there are other issues like the Ode of Resurrection not getting used even though it was the Act 5 title (why....?) and getting an Ancient Name for the Traveler was such a major plot point, the Captain not having enough screentime or build-up for his ending to have the impact it should have had, the highly anticipated battle over the Pyro Gnosis being saved for later, them not explaining at all what is actually happening during the final battle against Gosoythoth with past Pyro Archon's voices, the list goes on and on... It really is no wonder that a lot of people were disappointed by the Natlan AQ Finale. In terms of presentation, visuals and music it was great but the writing was really subpar in almost all aspects.

[@soulstealer5625]

What makes me mad is we had a whole interlude of stalling only to then open on like an hour of filler. Why not launch right into it after stalling with the interlude?

[@naboume466]

Nothing of what you said has anything to do with good or bad writing, almost all of your points are subjective, and that's fine, but when you start talking about bad writing you need to give more objective criticisms. 1- predictable has nothing to do with good writing or not. 2- characters being bland or boring without explaining more is again subjective (I do agree though) there are many people who would simply say "no I like those characters" 3- only NPCs dying has nothing to do with bad writing, that's silly. Plus saying no one cared about the npc is completely subjective, I did care about them and so did many people, so there is that. 4- more "this was predictable so it's bad" arguments, plus Mavuika not dying was never going to be a twist, they literally showed her story quest in the Livestream. All in all, it's okay if you didn't like the story, but try to not bring up "bad writing" when you aren't willing to objectively analyze a piece of Media and instead just want to talk about what you personally didn't like.

[@im2sweg4u29]

i agree with number 3. i was kinda hoping someone would die (either mavu or traveler) so the ode would be used (heck its the aq title), but the ode didn't even get triggered.. the thing with xilonen also confuses me. i thought xilonen is risking her life to make the traveler's ancient name but she seems fine...? and her story quest (well, her tribal chronicles) is already released so...are they not planning to elaborate on that?

[@soulstealer5625]

@@im2sweg4u29 starting to think it was just shock value and nothing actually comes from it

[@otho69AD]

@@im2sweg4u29 The situation with Xilonen was a mistranslation, which seems to be way more common and noticeable in Natlan for whatever reason. I understand that the EN translation was never great to begin with, at least when it comes to accurately relaying the meaning of the original text. But man, I feel like it's taken a massive nose dive in quality since Natlan began

[@ashy969]

25:30 - with the Lich king reference, for sure he will raise the army of the dead or something and we have to duke it out! They cannot just make that reference and leave him sit on that throne forever.... Maybe it will be truly him and it may will not.... Meaning that Ronova controls him or the abyss or something... I also don't think Columbina will go to Natlan. I think, the Harbinger they will send is Pantalone. Because we got a big Boss to fight already. So whoever comes we will not fight personally. They also could send him because Nathan is in ruins and Mr Bank can use his wealth as a bargaining chip.

[@EmmettDia]

Ashikai has a discord server?, Where can I find it?.

[@TsaritsaTheSnezhnaya]

You have to be supporter of her channel then you will get a link

[@EmmettDia]

@ means I have to pay for it?

[@genshin_lore_enjoyer]

Omg perfect,! Will watch the stream on the train. You will have a journey with me. Willing you or no. Mhahaha!

[@tova2635]

Arlecchino was retconned. They took her story and gave it to a random ass woman we only met a few days before her launch. This of course to make her more palatable as a character for the masses. They can't make an evil playable character because many features of genshin require playable characters to have some sort of trust or good relationship with the traveler. The captain i don't think he was retconned as a character. We always knew he was an honorable warrior. It's just that his writing was not handled well. 😂

[@baguette_connoisseur]

Literally how was Arlecchino a retcon?

[@jarrenraves]

@@baguette_connoisseur no proof, no source-he just read somebody's headcannon interpretation on reddit and decided it was reality now. Look at his complete confidence though-like everything he said was completely factual rather than after-the-facts speculation-it'd be impressive if it wasn't disconcerting and delusional. At the end of the day, every character in genshin could get retconned at some point and we'd never know with anything close to his level of certainty because we're not privy to hoyo's writing process or decision making. Equally, stuff that looks like a retcon could just be the result of poor writing or poor translation

[@otho69AD]

"They retconned my head-canon!! 😭"

[@stormer2349]

I honestly quite liked this quest, unlike a lot of people. For me this AQ is a solid 9/10. It was a very new and fresh direction for an archon quest, which I appreciated. I feel like where Fontaine and Sumeru fell short, Natlan exceeded expectations. The cutscenes were great, dialogue had dynamic movement, we got even more types of expressive faces, character models look better, etc. I love the way Natlan used NPCs as well. They felt a lot more involved in the narrative; at times it’s hard to tell who’s a PC and who’s an NPC. And rather than have all its emotional moments centred around one character, Natlan felt more consistent in this way. Never thought a saurian would make me tear up, twice. And last up, Natlan’s environmental storytelling was great. Fontaine was atrocious at this, and building upon it. The way they did the landscapes in Act 4 reminded me of Inazuma, which was awesome. However I think the trade off was, where Sumeru and Fontaine did exceedingly well, Natlan underperformed. Sumeru and Fontaine were mainly character driven stories, while Natlan was plot driven. That leads you to form an attachment to the world, not the characters. And although this is intended, it means people feel slightly disconnected. Where Sumeru and Fontaine were too slow paced, Natlan felt too fast paced, esp in Act 5. I think they could’ve characterised Mavuika a lot better. Imo she’s one of the most interesting archons in concept. But the interesting things about her, they don’t portray on screen. Like her being a culmination of every tribes virtue and skill, her obstinacy is getting to her goal, and self sacrificial attitude. It feels like Ei all again, where you have to go through 20 different bits of lore to piece together a cohesive story about her. Nearly everything about this archon quest felt experimental, and so I can accept and applaud Hoyo for trying something away from their normal formula. I don’t see it as being catastrophically horrific as some people do. Maybe that’s just the overhating culture around Natlan, which is at play right now.

[@Vintagestep]

I also see a lot of complaints coming from the same people that doesn't like the fact that we're getting less males in game, I don't want to think it's deliberate but I've seen this overlap so often that I think knowing they're getting less males automatically makes them talk about the flaws of Natlan with more vehemency.

[@stormer2349]

@ yeah I think that defo is a factor. Things like the boycott and the lack of males in Natlan have led people to have a sour taste in their mouth of Natlan. So that influences their opinion on the story. And normally these sorts of people aren’t able to recognise that.

[@soulstealer5625]

@@Vintagestep one who doesnt mind male ratio and thinks this AQ was mid. What doesnt help this AQ is it peaked in act 4. Then we have an interlude of stalling before act v and the first goddamn hour of it is more stalling and filler. Battle is kinda cool but flawed with mary sue Mauvika doing literally everything (and the camera cutting to traveller like a parent giving their child a controller with the cord unplugged to reassure them they're helping). The big over the top glazing of traveller that felt unreal and uncomfortable before finally having some good stuff with Ronova.

[@Vintagestep]

@@soulstealer5625 I agree with that, 100%, however, you're aware of comments saying something on the lines of "this is the worst archon quest, I'm not playing anymore". I even saw people that maintained guides for years doing that. You're right, but the other factors still weight in.

[@rav9040]

at least hoyo will still be pumping garbage for yall to eat ig

[@GameProdigy_]

For me Natlan is the best story and region we’ve gotten so far. The amount of lore and the story has been nothing short of fantastic.All the characters are super well written and given enough care to were despite not be character focused, is still a amazing cast. Especially for Mavuika and Capitano. Firstly all the archon quest have been great and act 5 is such a fantastic way to end it all even though the impact was not to big cause of the few non voiced stuff. The way they did Capitanos sacrifice and his build up was done super well and happy he got the rest he deserves. Plus its not gonna be over for him i feel. Mavuika as a character is honestly one of the best characters theyve done in so long. The way they portray a character who has to act perfect for her nation and people but has alot of internal conflict. Ive seen many people think shes a mary sue character which honestly is not true cause she doesn't fit that description. The way they handled her as a character on top of all the stuff we got from the shorts to trailers to interactions is nothing short of fantastic and im happy shes a popular character cause of that. I know some may have criticism over her character but its only really a vocal minority that thinks shes not a good character. The WQ have been nothing short of amazing as well. Alot of lore given especially how tied is was to the AQ even moreso since youre rewarded in the quest for doing the TQ and WQ. Didnt want to make this longer than it needs to be but if it isnt obvious i think Natlan is the best we’ve gotten. I feel the vocal minority of the fanbase overhates on Natlan, its characters and story despite it being amazing.(which is a small portion cause theres more people who love it over hating it)

[@GerriFuryman]

Natlan WQ just top tier... Ochkanatlan was so good.... cant wait for final act of our Litlle guy story.

[@garyscott9328]

you lost me at all the characters are super well written tbh

[@petko6926]

@@garyscott9328 Yeah, I'm glad there's people enjoying Natlan, but too say they're super well written is... a choice. I respect all opinions, though I disagree with Natlan being anywhere close to Sumeru and Fontaine in terms of main story and ESPECIALLY characterisation.

[@lynn9265]

@garyscott9328 I read this and literally bluescreened lol, couldn't disagree with OP more 😅 Gotta be some of the worst characterization we've had so far

[@sladeTek]

Lmfaooo

[@im2sweg4u29]

natlan's aq is mid at best, maybe i'll rate it like 6-7/10. i loved act 1 which introduces us to the characters and pilgrimage and natlans "war" and act 4 where we experience real war where thousands of ppl died. the rest is okay-ish too imo. act 5 tho? its very mid, sadly. maybe i had too much expectations bcs genshin has been killing it with aq finales (sumeru and fontaine). and its not even bcs of capitano or the other characters. i just genuinely felt the pacing was off. like, the rest of the first half can be put into the interlude quest which was only like 30 minutes. no explanation on who gosoytoth was mimicking (yeah its xiuhcoatl but no mention of him either??). the incadescent ode of "resurrection" didnt actually resurrect anyone too. even a small thing like gosoytoth mimicking the previous pyro archons voices are not explained. we can get a rundown on who ruled after who but no

[@soulstealer5625]

I cant get over the interlude being filler then launching into act 5 with even more goddamn filler

[@MiyuKawasaki]

Fontaine did the exact same mistakes. No explanation who the shadow man inside the whale was either

[@im2sweg4u29]

@@MiyuKawasaki the shadow man i agree but idk maybe ironically having 0 knowledge about the shadow man makes it wider to theorize while we already know infos about xiuhcoatl, its kinda jarring for them to not mention anything about the sovereign..

[@nizarahmad3912]

​@@im2sweg4u29 Natlan AQ rewards for those who did the WQ's and the tribal chronicles more. The point of Natlan AQ is rather different from previous AQ's, which focuses more on connection to the nation as a whole. This unfortunately is a double edge sword. Players, more often than not, will miss a lot of pieces of the puzzles resulting in feeling of disconnection. I felt like Natlan as a whole is very experimental, where they took small steps towards many things differently but not fully committed to it.

[@ladypotato8236]

What if instead of the captain and signora resurrecting, the doctor “creates” segments of their past? I mean he did it with himself. Who says he hasn’t done it with the rest of the harbingers?

[@JacobSecreto-hi3is]

I don’t like Natlan really. I’ve been playing the game for several years, so maybe It’s just my preferences changing over time. Does anyone else feel this way?

[@lynn9265]

Mondstadt and Liyue were likely the honeymoon phase making me enjoy it a lot regardless of the actual quality/pacing of the quests. I think back on them fondly, bit also it's been 4+ years I I've likely forgotten about the parts that were a bit more boring. Then Inazuma came and I wasn't a big fan of how they wrote Raiden. Giving her no consequences for her actions, making her story quest like a date, etc. But I feel like they've improved on her since then through later quests. And I still very much enjoyed Inazuma since the world was packed with interesting WQ and I simply love irl Japan so I'm eating up all the references. Then came Sumeru, and they just set the bar a lot higher imo when it comes to worldbuilding, cast interactions, and the AQ. I loved this nation a lot, and it continued the trend of having amazing WQs (I love Jeht sm). Then Fontiane comes and all the inter-personal relations and dynamics of the cast blow me out of the water, the pacing could've been a bit better, but the finale was just so incredible that it leaves an amazing impression regardless of the somewhat slower middle part. Then we come to Natlan, the bar has been set high by Suneru and Fontaine and... well, imo Natlan simply hasn't delivered. The cast doesn't have intriguing dynamics, or any sort of tension between different goals/ambitions. Everyone's just surface level friendly with each other and the surrounding playable cast sometimes end up feeling like npcs. Mavuika has no interesting qualities imo. Act 4 was awesome, but the finale, which I feel should be the most memorable, just disappoints me. The most enjoyable so far for me in Natlan has been Ochkanatlan.... I'm looking forward to the volcano, Iansan's tribe, possible mare jivari, and such. But so far Natlan is the first region where I own 0 of the 5 stars, cause I don't want any of them. And I've gone from spending for welkin+BP and the top up bonus, to f2p. I'm just really not feeling Natlan with the tech disconnect between the npcs and playable cast, the inconsistent writing, the modern looking outfits and the overall decrease in impactful cultural inspirations, the flat personalities, increasing gender disparity, and region locked mechanics... I'm praying they'll get their act back together before Snezhnaya (or Nod-krai or whatever). So no, you're not alone at all.

[@soulstealer5625]

@@lynn9265 I stand by this for Sumeru, Fontaine and Natlan (older nations were not all that so not grading them). Sumeru act 1-2 Amazing tho 1 is more set up. Act 3-4 still good and first regions mid point to keep me engaged. Act 5 peak. Fontaine act 1-2 peak, strongest pilot we've ever had. ac 3-4 mid dropped the ball but still some good bits act 5 peak probably the best finale we've had. Natlan act 1-2 good liked the dynamics and set up act 3-4 peak good lore bombs and war arc was sick af and the sky. Interlude and act 5 underwhelming filler.

[@sladeTek]

Natlan AQ actually so bad. How’d you go from making peak with Fontaine and someone as well written as Furina/Focalors to the mess that is Natlan.

[@sladeTek]

Also reducing the so-called immortal Khaenriah supersoldier that’s been blessed by the Cryo Archon and can rival actual gods to whatever they did to his story just so they glaze Mauvika is definitely a choice. Barely a 5 minute fight with an Archon already crippled him like be so serious. Karma got them anyways cause Mauvika’s banner tanked regardless of how much pathetic glazing they did to her character.

[@salceds]

@@sladeTek Giving Capitano a good ending to his arc just so some FatuHQ wannabe thinks it's to prop up Mavuika is so braindead omfggg

[@pamafa3147]

Capitano is so clearly not finished, not even dwelling into leaks there's quite the amount of hints pointing to him coming back later on

[@sladeTek]

⁠​⁠@@salcedsof course you’d know about being braindead cause you probably think her character is anywhere as good as Furina. Her fated “death” was the single most anti climatic thing in an AQ. There was no proper build up to it nor was there any stake involved. Also him losing and be permanently on life support after a 2 minute fight with Mauvika is definitely to prop up Mauvika and if you deny that then you’re the one grasping at straws. Leader of the Fatui, Rank 1, Undead Supersoldier, Blessed by the Tsaritsa Yet none of those actually felt like they meant anything. He didn’t even pose a threat to Natlan so what’s the point of hyping harbingers up if their sole purpose of existing in the story is to lose to Archons to make them look better lol.

[@Laserstormelpies]

@@sladeTek I don't think capitano got 'crippled' from that fight at all. Learning about the souls inside him I think he reconsidered if the fight was worth it at the current time back in the stadium after mavuika threw a hit near his chest, dangering the souls he means to protect.

[@DragonerDriftr]

Unfortunately this was the patch that made me uninstall. Between the motorcycle (Chasca's gun is not exempt), the poor storytelling, and the butchered worldbuilding around "shove 6 different cultures together, that works!" this region killed my interest in the game. Your work is still interesting at least, and was all I have been getting out of the game anyway since Fontaine ended. They had the seeds of something that could be interesting but even in their billions they didn't get it past the finish line for SOME reason? No polish, no investment in the conflict or characters or area..... Oh well, RIP, lost a paying player playing since the beginning by not reinvesting in the game

[@Sociopastor]

Being a Fatui fan in 2025 is the meme where it's just "ITS SO OVER" "WE'RE SO BACK" "OH GOD NO ITS OVER" I've never seen hoyo THIS hellbent on marketing a character, let alone an archon, to make her essentially perfect in nearly every way that succeeds in every confrontation that they compromise the rest of the characters involved in this half-assed questline. This makes me hate Mavuika and what she truly represents in Hoyo's eyes, pure utter favoritism.

[@soulstealer5625]

First Archon since Raiden I've hated and first one other than Venti that I dont watch the trailers for

[@EnloTheRover]

At this point I don't trust anyone who just flat out hated the Natlan quest.

[@sladeTek]

@@EnloTheRover I don’t think we should be trusting the ones who love it either so now what

[@wolf-c9t]

​@@sladeTek now go touch grass instead of mindlessly trying to nail-in personal opinions on the internet.

[@sladeTek]

@@wolf-c9t ahh u mad af

[@EnloTheRover]

​@@sladeTek idk. Valid criticism is always a good thing. Ive been seeing people being just hateful and I can't take them seriously anymore.

[@Faron93]

@@sladeTek People can love something while being critical about it. Enlo talked about hate. People getting this kind of emotion to a medium should take a step back and reflect a bit. Really not the healthiest mindset to have.

[@ashy969]

18:33 - I agree, she was a side character even compared to he kids. Lyney was more active in that story than Arlecchino. If you take Arlecchino away, the story doesn't change at all! I don't know if they didn't want to be repetitive or they didn't want to give away something about her identity so they sorta ended up hiding her... Then, in Natlan, again.... What the heck was the Fatui doing there? Yes they helped but... Why were they here? Capitano didn't really try to take the gnosis. He was 100% focused on getting his buddies to the night kingdom.... But even that was not really played out.

[@soulstealer5625]

Marketing I guess

[@ankurraina2730]

Natlan was amazing , I liked it but sumeru still stays at the top with fontaine and natlan as second

[@Kyuubi13s]

I was thinking, Capitano might return when Dottore burns down the Irminsul, unless Night Kingdom somehow survives this

[@Chaffee738]

About the appropriate researchwhen basing their games on IRL things: So the Traveler is a blond white godly person from overseas, and thanks to their efforts the Natlan equivalent of Aztec human sacrifices is no longer needed to keep Natlan safe, and they're given a golden feathered crown by the people happy for their help. That's... Quetzalcoatl, or at least the version of him brutalized, profaned and invented by the Spanish, I'm quite pissed Hoyo used that as reference just like so many other anime games featuring Quetzalcoatl. No the Aztec legend doesn't say Quetzalcoatl is blond and white, and no he wasn't against human sacrifices. Also no the people didn't actually think Cortes was Quetzalcoatl. Like do you not see the "the Aztecs thought Cortes was Quetzalcoatl and welcomed him, and Quetzalcoatl was the only Aztec god against sacrifices" thing and find something sus about it? The human sacrifices in Aztec culture was to offer Tonali to the gods to help keep the world alive and sacrifices were thought to be honorable why would one of the demiurges be against it? I appreciated that Hoyo adapted Mesoamerican culture into Natlan with more care and respect than I feared but seeing the Traveler wearing that crown and realizing what it meant was pretty unpleasant.

[@SirWhig-esq.]

Nod-Krai 🎉❤ [and Skirk!]

[@sunglassfrog89]

Natlan story its mid at best its like watching mid shonen anime like but with good animation technical perspective more interaction gameplay etc its kinda like watching demon slayer its mid but its enjoyable 7.8-8.2/10 for me

[@BlazerMinecrafter]

5.3 burning me out a bit story wise made me appreciate how zzz manages to be concise and sleek with it's writing while maintaining the depth of worldbuilding that hoyo thrives on

[@kyero8724]

We get a Proper leader and yall call her a Incel because she beat Capitano lol Also Xianyun had a electric bike.

[@xelloskaczor5051]

Love to see people talk around Capitano story being rushed and bad without even considering Maybe Just maybe We didn't need to waste 4 archon quests on kachina, mualani and NPCs/Dinosaurs being sad. Wow who could have guessed that if you spend that much time on personal drama and NPCs you won't have the time to set up an epic duel between man and death. No no guys it must have been a "rewrite". Or the story is not over yet. Or maybe they just ran out of money, surely. No. They wasted 4 quests and had 2 to do actual story in.

[@otho69AD]

"Natlan was rewritten!" Yeah, most of the AQs underwent major revisions and rewrites at some point in development. People seem to think they intentionally sabotaged their own narrative just to spite them personally. When in reality this is a very normal part of game development. Just seems like Natlan's didn't jive well with a lot of people in the community

[@raline46]

idk man maybe because these quests are about NATLAN and THEIR PEOPLE and not about Khaenri'ah with their Chapter ???, especially Heavenly Principles where we still don't know for sure where will Hoyo take this on

[@tomfranco5247]

Natlan isn't about Capitano bro

[@garyscott9328]

i wanted to play as captain or at least fight the captain as a weekly boss and got neither just an npc for all that hype yeah he is boring

[@soulstealer5625]

All the people glazing him at this point are coping or just taken by his aura.

[@baguette_connoisseur]

@@soulstealer5625is the aura in the room with us right now

[@captaindanger13]

1:21:42 haven't you heard? genshin players can't read. XD

[@wolf-c9t]

Natlan Acts 1-4 is better than Fontaine Acts 1-4 but Natlan Act 5 is embarassing.

[@otho69AD]

I really enjoyed Fontaine, but people look back at that nation's AQ way too fondly, and it's mostly because of Act V. Acts III and IV of Fontaine are straight up some of the worst quests we've gotten in the game so far imo, just a total waste of your time for very little actual payoff. Natlan's AQ was actually pretty decent up until Act V imo. But yeah the so-called "finale" for this nation was so undercooked it understandably soured a lot of people's perception of the whole AQ which is a shame. I seriously have no idea what they were thinking giving Capitano 27 LINES in the quest where he's supposed to heroically sacrifice himself like what the hell man

[@LovesArlecchino]

Your WRONG if you seriously think arle put ANY pressure during fontaine because no she didnt she was COMPLETELY neutral, the ONLY reason she approached furina in the first place was because she thought furina had the gnosis. Also haters are quick to FORGET that arle HELPED fontaine with rebuilding when she didnt even need to. Also sorry but you just have bad taste if you dont think natlan's storyline was GREAT because its the BEST one so far by far

[@torthos1]

Arle absolutely put a ton of pressure on both Furina and Neuvillette, and has only been doubling down until Fontaine's resolution came. She helped the people of Fontaine, because they weren't the ones she had any strife with, she had problems with Fontaine's rulers. Besides, you can absolutely help someone with one thing while still putting pressure on them about something else. For someone called "LovesArlecchino" you don't seem to understand her motivations very well.

[@jthepj108]

Username checks out 💀 Is the natlan Quest acc that good? Haven't bothered with it since I don't want to have to do all five acts

[@torthos1]

@@jthepj108 It's very... okay. It's probably the flashiest and most epic out of all the AQs we've had so far, but lacks that... something. I feel like it lacks that depth and weight to its events that Sumeru and Fontaine had. Felt more like the devs were concerned with "what would be coolest" instead of "what would make a compelling story", which isn't bad in itself I guess... but it didn't really leave as much of an emotional impact after the initial hype went down, at least for me.