Nazlymov v Erikson Situation at San Jose NAC Explained

This is an explanation of the ending between Tatiana Nazlymov and Kira Erikson at the division 1 event in the San Jose NAC. For a little additional context, this is the day after the video "Fencing's Biggest Open Secret" was released. Here is a link to that video if you haven't seen it already:
• Fencing's Biggest Open...
Here is a link to the original bout between Nazlymov and Erikson:
• San Jose NAC 2024 SWS ...
And here is a link to the footage from the bout across with Nazlymov and Erikson in the background:
• San Jose NAC 2024 SWS ...
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[@GPFencing]

Thanks for posting this and using your platform to highlight things like this. I know it's not easy to put yourself in a spotlight like this and applaud your courage

[@CyrusofChaos]

I have been silent about this for too long

[@gremfencer]

jeez, corruption in the fencing world is really starting to show its self, hope it can be fixed and soon

[@moXnoX1]

once AI is ready)

[@georgegonzalez-rivas3787]

Pshaw... Corruption has always been present in Sabre. If you were around during the pre-electric days you'd know just how bad the side-judges were... Go to a world cup tournament in Italy, for example, in the first round when everybody is competing the side judges were all junior Italian fencers who'd never call a touch against one of the Italian stars. Only later in the tournament you'd see coaches scurrying to find already-eliminated fencers from neutral countries to act as side judges. But now ALL the power is in the hands of the referee (2 side judges could overrule the ref in those days) and given the 'whimsical' definition of an attack in sabre he can do whatever he wants. Sometimes in exchange for future favors like another bout in kind later in the tournament, sometimes because of friendships/working relations, and sometimes in exchange for cash under the table. It's true.

[@alishf3]

This is very odd. This can’t be happening at a Div1 NAC!

[@leis0ng]

Isn't Tatiana one of the fencers in the recent anonymous video made about the corruption in fencing?

[@Spacebreakaarrhh]

She is. Nazlymov Fencing in general

[@CyrusofChaos]

One more reason why this is a bad look

[@k.s.productions9729]

It’s not nazlymov fencing, it’s mostly fikrat as he used his power as one of the top fie refs to control and use lower ranking fie refs like Jacobo. Take away fikrat and nazlymov would only have power over inexperienced kid refs who are scared of the former Olympian and over world cups in Russian as his dad is former kgb.

[@oldschooljeremy8124]

Geez. We're back to the bad old days where an American fencer had to score three times to get one touch awarded to him, only now it's within American fencing instead of internationally.

[@MindlessEntertainment]

I’m glad someone finally caught on video a thing the rest of us all knew was happening. Can’t remember how many times I’ve said, “oh yeah - that’s the best ref in this room - but he cheats.”

[@stevep1762]

This is just corruption right here. How is the DT for the competition OK with this? How is USA Fencing OK with this? Why is there another referee on the piste? Why are there coaches behind the referee and not at the end of the piste? How has he called 3 hits for the left which were clearly Right - Right or simul - 100% right? Just WTF all day long. USA fencing needs to suspend both referees, coaches and fencers pending an investigation into Nazlymov fencing.

[@noahz]

Absolutely unacceptable. There need to be consequences.

[@pieman17713]

Holy shit that last touch is insane. Extremely upsetting to see...

[@archardor3392]

What is the problem with the last touch? It looks like a parry riposte, please explain

[@axistro2309]

⁠@@archardor3392It is most definitely not a parry riposte

[@wetsocks42_50]

I believe the attack lands before the blade contact, meaning it's still the attacker's right of way and touch@@archardor3392

[@connorfoley-walker5672]

​@@archardor3392 kind of hard to have a parry riposte with no blade contact.

[@archardor3392]

@@connorfoley-walker5672 Ok, I think i see and hear definitely blade contact first and then mask hit second but maybe its just me...

[@dominickong384]

USFA needs to convene an independent panel to investigate this. Any individuals found to be complicit in this should be banned from the sport permanently and the matter be referred to law enforcement agencies for further investigation to determine if criminal proceedings should be brought against them.

[@saberwhat-xd7kz]

Vet fencer Lundborg is standing between Morales and Romo in the back. Calls the match for Erikson at 2:00-2:04. He then looks back and forth confused. Erikson's coach has no choice but to go along with Morales.

[@GMoney-h4y]

We’ve seen her coach and FIE ref Fikrat and several of his FIE referee friends influence way too many of Titiana’s matches over the last 12 months! It is appalling that because of this cheating, she is taking a legitimate spot on the Olympic team from someone else who is truly deserving.

[@Donomon2461]

What can the community do to combat this behavior?

[@CyrusofChaos]

Film literally everything

[@ChmktoBB]

@@CyrusofChaos

[@ChmktoBB]

@@CyrusofChaos It's literally the same as in Mexico¡ es bueno que alguienmás lo vio y pueda hablarlo publicamente

[@samsignorelli]

Wow....not even trying to hide it.

[@linus11vf1j]

I left right of way fencing for less than this (inherit and subconscious biases that skew your ability to win points), but this downright destroys the legitimacy of the right of way sports.

[@CyrusofChaos]

@@linus11vf1j unfortunately I tend to agree :(

[@JerseyRams96]

Unfortunately, this is very common globally across the sport.

[@CyrusofChaos]

So let's put a stop to it

[@JerseyRams96]

Wholeheartedly agree, thank you for shining a light on it

[@peterrowlands6715]

Please tell me that substantial action was taken against that assassin of this sport.

[@CyrusofChaos]

He has been suspended from USFA fencing pending an investigation. However he is still reffing internationally

[@dbssaber]

If I were Matteo I would not have been able to control myself that well...

[@lekjacekbujko]

Aren't those 3 consecutive double touches..? Can't see the clear ROW 😩

[@MindlessEntertainment]

Also Fikrat has been cheating left right and center, as a referee and coach, since he got here. How terrible of a coach is he that he can’t get his students to win without buying off the ref?

[@_sixtyfour]

should we go back to just calling all of this simultaneous?

[@Roca891]

Yes

[@RedKingJoker]

I don't think so, personally. Not only would that diminish the game, but it doesn't even fix the problem. You need a means to reduce the impact of human referees, not just shift their impact to other actions.

[@l3lixx]

Dick Oles used to call it, "two attacks"

[@chizzmaster]

​@@RedKingJoker150ms lockout timing then? Someone i was chatting with said 40ms to match epee but i don't know that it would be healthy for sabre

[@archardor3392]

​@@chizzmaster A good idea was: Attack in preparation rewards 1 point. Other 2 light actions reward 2. One light actions reward 3. Fence to 25. This severely limits how much a referee can influence the bout and rewards technical fencing if going for a 1 light action.

[@bigtoosh]

Nazlymov fencing and that group consistently exposed for corruption, yet nothing is done. Why even

[@ddo6137]

Meanwhile, Fikrat is busy refereeing at GP in Tunis, no conflict of interest for the FIE who is happy to have a coach refereeing their own fencer's opponents...

[@nv-ram]

DUDE this ref recorded one of my bouts against me in pools, we showed him the video it ended on a point I score, he raised his hand on my side. He wouldn't change it.

[@sharpermindtraining]

Take that to bout committee-but also make sure you get your opponent to agree with you. Your word (or video) alone is not enough, you need your opponent to agree with what you're saying for them to change it, typically.

[@ericdew2021]

That's rather egregious.

[@CurtisBurtis]

Jose pookie stop it this isn’t you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Baby noooo 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺

[@iami1862]

oh nah thats crazy

[@tiramisuORcroquembouche]

average russian scandals🤣

[@tpwa205]

The last one physically hurts..

[@benigoe7406]

This is terrible. Quite embarrassing for the sport.

[@k.s.productions9729]

This is actually appalling. The problem with the system of putting fie refs in charge is that fikrat is a high ranking fie ref, of course Jacobo is going to listen to him or else he would get into serious trouble with the corrupt fie. This is a flaw in the system that cannot be easily fixed as it would be to complicated and circumstantial. Also it makes no sense to me why Jacobo gave the slip to another ref when he could’ve just been biased himself. That would make him look like a not so great ref rather then making him look like your classic fie fraud. Fikrat and melenchev have to go, it’s the only way as they meatride each other and use their combined power to control other refs. Jacobo isn’t at all fair normally and can be quite the dick so this is a bad example but if the ref was another fue ref who isn’t know for being biased the outcome would be the same, because you have one of the top fie refs controlling them.

[@romanista77]

This type of crap has been in fencing forever. Thank you for posting this. At least with videos being so much more common, this corruption can be exposed.

[@FelixFelix-tw4wy]

i mean that's not as obvious as some other things you already showed on your channel. there is only 3 touches in this excerpt which is not enough to judge if the referee is corrupted or whatever. Besides he is logical with himself calling three time the same thing on three similar actions. Even if issues like that are too common in fencing and i don't know enough about american fencing and thoose people, i think there isn't enough to judge on this bout, despite there is a clear mistake (which isn't obvious without slowed video, somethind they don't seem to have) it doesn't clearly mean corruption or at least the video for me does't show enough. The fact that the young referee is following the judgement of the older one is logical as he may be under a certain pressure and the older guy seems to be here as a supervisor. We don"t know what Nazlymov's coach said to Jacobo. A bit too much of theories for me to assume there is anything going on. Despite all of that it's still a shame that at this level there is these type of mistakes and i admire the work you do to highlight it in order to have it changing.

[@CyrusofChaos]

This video is less about the calls themselves (though they are wrong in the opinion of almost everyone I've talked to) and more about the fact that someone who shouldn't have been involved in the bout in any way was changing calls AND the fact that the referee in charge of the bout had never been to a NAC before and is somehow reffing a bout that is very important for Olympic qualification

[@FelixFelix-tw4wy]

@@CyrusofChaos okay then i see your point and there is something wrong indeed

[@Spacebreakaarrhh]

How bad will you execute this after a scandal: Like wtf are they thinking

[@georgegonzalez-rivas3787]

Very obviously unfair. But sabre fencing has done this to itself... the simultaneous or semi-simultaneious touches inside the box have become an absolute joke. The referee can say anything and easily get away with it. How sabre changed ROW is remarkable... now, anywhere on the strip you can be moving forward with your hand down, jumping straight up like a kangaroo, pausing and restarting... and they always give you the RWO. Fine -- it's silly but consistent for both. But inside the box suddenly you need a micrometer and laser precision to detect the slightest real (or imagined fault). It's totally illogical. Solns: 1. Allow double touches like in epee. Sooner or later somebody will have to parry something. 2. Change the timing drastically. 3. Move the en grade lines further apart... you can't score endless doubles (which is what they are) with an advance lunge anymore. 4. Change the definition of attack to more like it used to be -- your WEAPON is always moving forward not just your body -- 5. Give preference to the point in line and finta in tempo --- clearly nobody is trying to parry anything as that's too risky... so you need to give more weight to the defensive tactics of sabre.

[@robertmartinez2527]

The chickenz have come home to roost.... great work COC... keep it up!

[@RS-nw6pz]

What was at stake in this bout? Does the outcome help Nazlymov qualify for the Olympics?

[@SlicerSabre]

yes

[@CyrusofChaos]

It sure does

[@manuelalcarazbuzame]

Yeap. Three days ago it wss announced she will be part of the us olympic team

[@yeeyee9974]

Got in Olympic team through the cheating referees and coach.

[@aaronkandlik]

@@yeeyee9974it wasn’t the first time.

[@dannadorebicycles1767]

I'm having trouble understanding the incentive structure here. If Morales wanted to influence the outcome of the bout, what is the incentive to hand the bout off to another ref and then instruct him what to call, rather than just calling the bout himself?

[@CyrusofChaos]

the thing that instantly comes to mind is that on FencingTimeLive it only records the name of the ref who actually takes the bout

[@fencingbrothers6266]

Welcome to corrupt fencing ! At the end, talent will beat money...

[@CyrusofChaos]

I truly hope that is true

[@ce6535]

Do you have data to back up that hypothesis?

[@freetee0118]

Similar voodoo can be seen in the Heathcock vs. Dolegiewicz match… and Homer vs. BenAvram

[@RS-nw6pz]

Was there anything odd in the Buhay vs Nazlymov bout? Romo refereed that one too

[@Dancingtuna]

🙈🙉🙊

[@sharpermindtraining]

Thanks man, good video-appreciate what you're doing

[@Kustrobot]

AI refereeing cannot come soon enough.

[@king0fheart4711]

How do you know to record both angles???

[@unionfencingalliance65]

That's crazy!

[@danyu8330]

People who fenced dry sabre have entered the chat 😂

[@archardor3392]

Can someone please explain the last touch? I see a parry riposte.

[@carachen770]

Nazlymov searches for blade and misses, it is attack on preparation for Erikson.

[@benloft3126]

Clearly misses.

[@JamesRichter-c2l]

I think we are trying to make an accusation against Nazlymov and therefore only looking at the details that paint her as a cheater. The 13th and 14th touches that Nazlymov scores look like Eriksons attack counter-attack but things on video are different from in person. Having been able to watch this bout in person Eriksons coach actually acknowledged these two touches to be against Erikson after the bout, and even in the video you can see that he nods his head after a short exchange with Jacobo agreeing with the call after an initial disagreement with the call made. I’m not here to blindly defend anyone so I will agree with the last call being reversed and not right. We should also be looking at the bout as a whole. In your other video it is very clear that in the 5th touch and the 8th touch Erikson pulls her arm back before finishing while Nazlymov is hitting in prep, both of these calls were reversed in Eriksons favor. The 9th touch Erikson scores is also questionable, both fencers stop and then retreat before finishing with advance lunge. It is clear that Eriksons retreat is much larger and this should probably have been called as reprise attack from the left. Three reversed calls led the score to be 9-9 rather than 12-6, a very large difference and advantage for Erikson since she is now touch for touch with Nazlymov rather than a 6 point deficit. Lastly it should be noted that Jacobo had been reassigning bouts to Romo and helping him make calls all day, not just with Nazlymov. These are just my thoughts I would love to hear feedback, overall I just don’t think it’s fair to label anyone as a cheater without seeing the whole picture.

[@MonicaAksamit]

Did you see the spectator at 2:30 make a call? The last 3 touches should be for Erickson. And there is one more that is the same like these that also should have gone to Erickson. Romero or whatever his name is should have never been reffing this match as he does not have the experience. Had I been fencing this match I would have called the bout committee over to handle the reassignment. Her coach sitting next to the referee is absolutely is beyond absurd. And considering it is already under questioning that they have been cheating for her this is just icing on the cake.

[@JamesRichter-c2l]

@@MonicaAksamit What Jacobo did by reassigning is wrong and inexcusable, but we are again ignoring all the details. there were three other reversed calls against Nazlymov that you are forgetting to mention. Let’s look at the whole picture when we make an accusation.

[@yujiahe4458]

Dont even bothering argue with this guys, fresh new account registered today just to make comment under this video lmao, check his account page@@MonicaAksamit

[@matteogallo4396]

I am Kira Erikson's coach; if you actually watched the bout in person, you know exactly what happened. I do not know what science fiction movie you watched, but the video of the second half of the bout is linked in the description, and if you really think there are three mistakes FOR my fencer, well I think you should probably rewatch it a little more carefully. Not that it matters, but my personal opinion is that until 14-12 the bout was refereed pretty fairly, there were 2/3 calls that could have gone either way and that were close, but neither myself nor the other fencer's coach had too much to argue (but again, you must know that, you were there!). As you know, since you were there, things changed after my student was able to score 4 single light touches and get to 14-12; what happened next it's in this video, I am sure the viewers are able to make up their minds and form their opinions. Finally, since you were there, you must know that to say that I "agree with the call" it's a lie and just a complete nonsense (like the video shows). I knew exactly what was happening, but since I am professional, and not a joker, until the end I tried as hard as I could to keep myself and my fencer focused on scoring the last touch and not getting distracted by anything else, trying to get her to score a touch that was impossible for the referee to be mistaken, which, to her credit, she did.

[@JamesRichter-c2l]

@@matteogallo4396Understood. I must have misread the situation.