Near Catastrophic Failure

Warning to all drivers about your duty of care for roadworthiness of your vehicle to avoid liability in road traffic collisions.
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[@brianhoskins1979]

The driver asked a professional tradesman to replace the tyres. The proper fixing of the wheels back onto the car is a bread-and-butter role of that professional person, and in my view the driver had every right to expect that it would have been done properly. What more can an insurance company ask of the driver than "I paid a professional to do the work"?

[@TheVicar]

Its still the drivers responsibility to make sure the car is road worthy every time they drive on the road

[@geraltofrivia8529]

​@@TheVicarits also the garages responsibility to make sure the vehicle is in a better condition than when work is undertaken.

[@MrGBH]

@@geraltofrivia8529 Hence the Contributary negliglance stuff mentioned in the video

[@grahvis]

Apparently in the US in Missouri, mechanics have no legal obligation to ensure wheel nuts are tightened after working on the tyres.

[@philosuileabhain861]

@@grahvis And if my grandma had had wheels she would have been a bicycle

[@doOf3r]

If you don't notice the vibrations and noises you'll get from loose wheel bolts/nuts then you shouldn't be driving a car on the road.

[@dees3179]

Which was a fair comment before roads turned into rally tracks when councils stopped repairing them. Of course it makes it all the more important to have your wheels in good condition, but if nothing rattles or complains in your car around here it means you are standing still.

[@roflcopter645]

Modern cars have extensive sound deadening to mute vibration and noise, and they also have numb power steering systems that filter out vibrations too. So it's not reasonable to expect a driver to be able to tell something's wrong just based on sound and feel.

[@sf2201]

Most alloy wheels and some steel wheels fit on a register and are then held in place with nuts/ bolts so there maybe no indication of an issue initially until the wheel come off the register, by then it could come away catastrophically. Probable wouldn't leave the vehicle completely but still could cause a loss of control of the vehicle.

[@quigglebert]

​@roflcopter645 you drive enough miles, you know. Granted I do 20k a year there abouts, if the car is off, I'll have a sense of it, even if I can't put my finger on it

[@stevekenilworth]

@@quigglebert true, i had a disk catching and all full kick back on pedal it took very little time to work out it was the front left, my dad many years ago 10 mins in to 3 hour trip he was not a slow driver by any means just finished first duel after pretty high speeds just started the 2nd leaving the roundabout few 100 meters later a big vibration it was the front left wheel the garage had not tightened up the bolts correctly the garage got a call and think they gave him the tyres basally money back. only had one flat so far it was back left tyre,, coming home xmas day roads quite not hanging about, im ran over something but stopped 10 mins later for a rest before the motorway section everything looked good as always have a walk around before setting off the car had month worth luggage and camera stuff the car was fully loaded prob more weight than 5 people in the car every space was taken up in my low powered 70 bhp diesel fiesta so it was even more sluggish first few duels after the services no issue just getting on to main long section A5 what auto joins on to M54 i thought the turbo had gone it went slow so gave few tests up to 90 and slowing back to foot to floor it felt like the turbo had gone about 30 miles later still not improved now on M54 just before the M6 telford junction found out it was rear left tyre was flat or mostly flat but as car was so weighted down handling was bad anyway so it was just power loss. when took it to tyre shop few days later the tyre wall was paper thin and im glad it was xmas day as i was between 2 duels 2 lanes to left merging on and two to the right so changing tyre for the first time was an experience for sure and entering again id say i left smoke trail but the trucks were good they moved over to 2nd lane while changing tyre, also glad the space saver was very close to same size as original tyre width and size and a very good tyre on it rated at higher than the 50mph handy when i had family all waiting to start xmas dinner. i had the big camera on tall pole turned and watching me while i changed my wheel with back car emptied on to shoulder was surprised a cop was not told to attend but it must looked i had every thing under control, first few months driving but thing i do now stop sooner for sure the tyre then may been saved but still change my own wheel. if car was not so much weighed down i would easy spotted it was the wheel / tyre. and quite ust to my current car has had failed abs,esp,tc for most two years first owning it it took two years to fully fail to get error code and no computer help you for sure know and learn fast what car likes and not

[@stephennield29]

If a motorist uses a Garage, they are usually expected to sit in a waiting area! Their insurance may not cover a customer being in the workshop. You cannot observe the wheel nuts/studs being tightened!

[@drstrangelove4998]

Exactly right!

[@wadoryujh]

You could when it’s handed back to yourself.

[@KevReillyUK]

My last tyre change a few weeks ago at my local independent garage I was allowed to hang near the back of my car, next to the waiting room, and chat to the mechanic. I was expecting to be asked to return to the waiting room at any moment, but wasn't. My car was just inside the workshop bay with the shutters raised so I was almost outside the building which may have been a factor. Either way I definitely watched him torque the wheel back on. There was other activity including cars on ramps in the rest of the workshop, but well away from where mine was. I do remember having exhausts changed at both Kwik-Fit and Halfords years ago and being told to wait in the waiting room, but then I wouldn't have expected to hang around in an area where all of the vehicles were on lifts. There may be some contextual wiggle-room available to the smaller independent shops, or the guy was just too polite to tell me to bugger off.

[@Baerchenization]

Of course you can. I went to look at the workmanship of a few tyre shops before chosing one. The guy then still did a shit job as far as I was concerned, so the first thing I did afterwards was loosening and retightening the bolts myself.

[@deedeedoes818]

Basic car maintenance would be so helpful if taught in schools

[@nodiggity9472]

It DID used to be taught in schools back in the 80s.

[@laceandwhisky]

Did in the seventies as well but that had to make sure they could fit woke crap in so removed the educational stuff. Not allowed to use wood chisels or lathes or pillar drills any more till in college 😢

[@nodiggity9472]

@@laceandwhisky But . . . how can someone learn to make a dovetail joint without chisels?

[@Alienargg]

​@nodiggity9472 why would you just accept this guys ignorant crap as fact?

[@rexcatston8412]

We've got a running joke here in the US Student: 'How do I do my taxes?' Teacher: 'Lava outside the volcano is called magma..' Student: 'Yeah but how do I fill out this job application?' Teacher: 'The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell..' You walk in as a 5 year old with no discernible skills and you walk out at 18 being 80% sure you know what an igneous rock is

[@lurdesdias3249]

That's a sort of nightmare.... So the innocent paying party is to be accountable for somebody else professional lack of professional conduct?!?!?

[@borassictime918]

Kinda - the ‘paying party’ saw the tyre fitter loosen the bolts, did they not? Hence the fail-to-check, due-diligence, contributory negligence possibility. As a road user you have responsibilities (see the Highway Code), your vehicle must be road worthy and it’s your responsibility to ensure that it is, so not automatically ‘innocent’.

[@yorkiemike]

Sort of, but not quite. You do have a responsibility to ensure your car is roadworthy. When was the last time you checked your wheel nuts?

[@yorkiemike]

@Imprezed What?

[@borassictime918]

@@yorkiemike That can apply to anything on the car; when was the last time you checked your oil, coolant, windscreen washer bottle, tyre pressure, brakes, and so on, all of which you are supposed to check before every journey. Just because most people don’t check doesn’t absolve you of responsibility for checking and by failing to do so put yourself at risk of contributory negligence.

[@yorkiemike]

​@@borassictime918 I was replying to the OP but yeah that's my whole point. You're responsible for everything at the end of the day.

[@russmclean2395]

Hi Daniel, in a career segment serving as a police officer, I attended a near-fatal RTA (as they used to be termed). EXACTLY what you narrate in this video happened. Well in this case it was a static garage in the old-school sense (and many years ago). The tyre mechanic was also a lifeboat volunteer and had understandably become distracted when his emergency pager went off. The driver still has nightmares at her vehicle wheel coming off at 60mph again! The kids are adults now, and they check their nuts every time they take their car into a garage. All concerned were VERY LUCKY to escape the RTA alive. Daniel, a HUGE thanks to your good self and all the Pro Bono work that you do. Your clear and thorough summation today and especially the WARNING on what is becoming a very popular (and usually very good) home delivery tyre-fitting service is likely to reach a vast audience (hopefully you will hit a million well deserved subscribers soon). I would wager you may have saved a life today. Thank you Sir. Very best wishes, Russ.

[@DrRussell]

Wow. Thank you for sharing. Have never considered to check, certainly will now.

[@martinkatzel8025]

Some years ago I found my father's car behaving a bit odd when driving through bends, a bit of vibrations, something like that. When i checked the bolts, they were completely loose

[@Buster_Piles]

I also check my nuts regularly whether or not I'm going to drive.

[@DrRussell]

@@Buster_Piles omg lol

[@IncognitoChild]

- Does kind of beg the question then: are some of these mobile tyre fitting companies training their employees correctly or is the wider picture the're not qualified to do the job they're being paid to do? What would you say is the police's view on how motorists should tighten their wheel nuts because an 18-year-old with a tyre iron is going to tighten the wheels potentially more than a 68 year-old with a tyre iron.

[@pirateadam3686]

My wife took her car to Costco to get new tyres. Got them done and picked it up - standard "Tighten the lugs after 50ish miles" clause at the bottom. Do this every time, so no worries. 50(ish) miles later I go to do just that. Socket doesn't fit. I look at them and they are all different lug nuts! Different colour and no security nut on any wheel! I was mad... I tried my 20mm, but it was too small. I ordered a 22mm and it didn't fit between the nut and the wheel recess. How?! What demonic socket did they use to get them back on in the first place. I was ready to drill the lot out, replace them with an OEM pack and sue Costco with righteous fury! Wife called them and asked about it, they said bring it in and have a look. I'd get answers, and find what strange tools they used, no doubt in order to con the paying customer for more money... Guy looked at the wheels and asked what the problem was. I told him all about my adventure trying to find Cinderella's Socket. He said to take the caps off and he'd have a look... Caps? What caps? He then proceeds to open my boot and take out a little pair of tweezers and remove the large, grey caps to reveal all the 18mm lugnuts (and security ones) underneath. It was a very quiet drive back home and I swear I could hear my wife grinning... I swear they weren’t on there when I put the wheels on last time!

[@cookiemonster2299]

🤣😂 I was waiting for you to say and it turned out the wife had brought the wrong car home. 🤣😂❤️

[@CrowPal]

😄

[@lesliemoore448]

😂

[@ianmason.]

Bonus, Costco didn't have to pay for heating the workshop that day as the toasty glow from your face must have kept the place warm for hours. Ouch, I mean OUCH. I've had to eat some humble pie in my time, but OUCH.

[@nigelnigel.]

Sadly garages have to deal with people like this all the time.

[@julianmorris9951]

I worked as a panel beater for 26 years and workmates used to laugh at me because I used to torque the wheel nuts to correct setting and write the time and date on the job sheet with my signature, that is until an apprentice who was rushing forgot to tighten the wheel nuts on his job, the wheel came off on the motorway and wrote the car off, there was then a body shop meeting where management instructed them to torque the wheel nuts and write it on the job sheet😎

[@LOTPOR0402]

Rule number one when back down on its wheels finish tightening the bolts don't get distracted by doing something else

[@tonyphotiou1742]

I have a very similar story. Back in the 1980's, I had wheels in a Datsun ZX sand blasted and painted as part of a boy racer's upgrade. A day after getting the car back, I see a wheel flying down the road. It was mine. At the time I had legal representation insurance on my policy. Long story short, the insurance company got the workshop to pay for damage to my car. Luckily, there was no damage to anyone else.

[@leeandjancruise]

I spoke to a garage forecourt attendant recently and he told me that many of the younger generation motorists couldn't even open the bonnet.

[@chriscurtain1816]

It's taught on lessons now, as it often features on the driving test.

[@alexrusselldev]

Unlike the older generation drivers who just waft about the road like a fart in the wind. No observations, 40mph everywhere, gotta come to a complete stop at every single roundabout and give way junction. Besides, which generations were responsible for raising and educating the younger generations? 🤔 Seems like an own goal.

[@johnmunro4952]

I'll file that under "things that didn't happen"

[@boatsmainly]

Sadly, that doesn't surprise me

[@TheVicar]

And they clearly learnt to drive on Grand Theft Auto

[@nigelsilverthorn9188]

my son bought a second hand car, the previous owner had 'upgraded' to alloy wheels. The wheels were correct for the car made by the manufacturer (Peugeot). A few days in he nearly lost a wheel, the bolts appeared tight however they were too long marginally and bottomed in the threads. All appeared ok but the bolts loosened as they had no mechanical grip. A visit to Peugeot resulted in a set of correct, marginally, shorter bolts handed over for free (they were second hand but thanks Peugeot). They agreed this can be an issue as folks change wheels but do not check to use the correct bolts...could have been a catastrophic gotcha. We had no clue the wheels and bolts were incompatible and they all appeared fully tight! ..lesson learnt when changing a car.

[@Nokkt441]

That is completely ridiculous - How is this any different to being in a mechanic shop? You are employing a professional to carry out work for you and you without trade skills are expected to check?! Where does it stop? If I have an electrician wire up the house I'm expected to watch over them and know if he is doing it correctly to standards or my insurance is voided if I have an electrical fire due to their incompetence?

[@invisiblekid99]

But there is no reasonable expectation that you know what he is doing is correct. The same can be expected for car mechanics, however you are expected to reasonably check your car for safe travelling. The law is there to help protect the public and other drivers. Does checking bolts fall into that category? Maybe not since it’s not specifically named as a check. The argument is here is that there is a grey area and while it’s very unlikely to result in any portion of blame will be pinned on the driver, if there is a massive accident, the insurance, or possibly the mechanics company could in theory go for this angle. I’m not saying that this is something you should be doing, but if the fallout is big enough, the treat of this accusation isn’t beyond comprehension.

[@Nokkt441]

@@invisiblekid99 I see the intent behind drivers being expected to reasonably check but after a qualified technician has completed work I think its reasonable to expect they concluded the repair/work properly. I had welds done to one of my older cars for instance. While checking the car over for a trip like tire tred, pressure, indicators functioning and such reasonably I don't have the tools or technical knowledge to check the welds or structural stability. Relating that to this nor would I have the tools to check the tightness of bolts on the wheels even if we ignore a qualified mechanic just having worked with them you would naturally assume the concluded the works properly. I think its messed up that its even an angle that can be played

[@asp383]

You're making the assumption all tyre fitters are qualified, many have only received "on the job training" by the company they work for. The same is also true for a lot of mechanics. When I worked for a breakdown company contracted to Green Flag, I was the only qualified mechanic out of 20 new starters on the induction week, 1//2 the new starters hadn't done anything more than changed their own spare or a bulb, yet were going to be roadside patrols, attending breakdowns and expected to diagnose the cause and repair where possible. We all received "on the job training" during the induction week, however, that was just how to operate the recovery equipment and load/unload a vehicle. Having already worked in accident and breakdown recovery, I knew more than the instructor and had to keep correcting him, which he didn't like.

[@ThirdEnvoqation]

Do you have a calibrated torque wrench at your house and do you know what torque settings are appropriate for your car nuts and wheel type? A torque wrench also needs calibrating every two years to remain in spec which costs hundreds to do properly. Most people don't have torque wrenches which are expensive, nor the cash to certify them. Also most people won't know what torque settings are needed to ensure the nuts remain secure. It's not just a case of using a spanner and hoping for the best, this is why almost all garages, or at least reputable ones, have a second qualified person check all the wheels before allowing the car to drive off if the wheels have been taken off as part of their handover check to customers. In this case the mechanic could have 'cracked' the nut to loosen them that does not mean finger loose or even have any visual clue that they'd been loosened.

[@Nokkt441]

@@asp383 The customer cant be expected to know any better let alone have the tools to make amends though if the mechanic fails to notice trainee or not. Surely you agree that is a training issue. In the industry I work in on the training comes in the form of shadowing another engineer till the essential college courses have been passed. All engineers sign documents after completed works that they are competent to work on the systems they did & clearly state any remedial actions or compromised areas of the system to be addressed. In other words if we neglect something its on us.

[@chriscurtain1816]

Same happened to me. I parked in a car park while a went for a cup of coffee. When I resumed my afternoon driving lessons I heard a whirring sort of noise when I drove faster. It seemed to be getting worse so I pulled over near my pupil's house and cancelled the lesson. When the AA arrived he found all the nuts on one wheel had been loosened to 'finger tight'. He then told me the story of a lady from Leicester who was killed on a motorway when the same was done to her.

[@patbowers4180]

My son also found his loose and one missing.

[@CrowPal]

One time when my dad was driving, we were behind a truck with a 40-foot trailer. One of the trailer wheels was clearly loose and about to come off. This was on a country road with little chance to overtake, but my dad did so anyway, then flagged down the driver. Just as well the wheel didn't come off during the overtake, as those wheels were big.

[@ryanwatterson4038]

​​@@CrowPalnumber of people killed on roads across the world, other vehicles etc struck by the truck tyre, is mind blowing

[@fredmercury1314]

A friend of mine was driving to work one morning and pulled over because his car started wandering all over the road. Someone had removed all but the locking wheel nuts on all his wheels. So instead of five nuts holding each wheel, there was one.

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Many years ago, as a teenager, I rode a Honda Goldwing and the jealous next door neighbour kid (my age) loosened the rear brake caliper as the bike stood outside overnight... I copped it immediately as I pulled out of the drive for work the following day... no one saw him do it but I had previously caught him damaging it so he was the prime suspect... also, another time he was seen spilling white paint on the saddle... a proper (fatherless) little b a s t a r d ... 😒

[@OliverTrist]

I'm having two tyres fitted to a car today, via an 'at home' service, before I drive 500 miles on the motorway at the end of this week. To describe this video, being published today, right at this very moment, as 'a scary coincidence of uncanny proportions' would be something of an understatement!

[@drugansltd4344]

Only last week I was in my mates van, 50mph road nice winding road and you could here and feel what seems like metal vibrating, worse when acceleratin. I said to him it sounds and feels like the wheel is loose. He just laughed and carried on, was about 2 miles away from home by now and it was getting worse. So he pulled over and sure enough the bolts where lose 🤦

[@CrowPal]

That's why it appeared in your watch list. 😉

[@MrMartinoef]

I did comment - when I took mine in to a garage they always told me to check the nuts after so many miles or a week to check they hadn't loosened. I used the same garage for years & the chap always said it to me even tho we were friendly & I went there all the time. On the paperwork that I signed when I paid he pointed out the small print. When you have yours done at home see if he advises to check them after 50 or so miles. It makes you think this vid! but as I said you will notice if they do start loosening - but no harm in checking at a service stop!

[@drstrangelove4998]

I had this happen, ten minutes after having my tyres balanced I was driving at 60mph on the A2 and thought a wheel bearing must have collapsed. It was the tyre dealer, a major chain, hadn’t tightened the bolts on one wheel.

[@CrowPal]

@@drstrangelove4998 I'll bet that, impact wrench in hand, someone answered their phone.

[@lambocandles8382]

I used to be a mechanic and I checked the tightness of all wheel nuts before the car left my ramp whether I took them off or not (for my own peace of mind). The fault is 100% on the tyre fitter for loosening the bolts and I think it's unreasonable for any blame to be put on the driver in this instance. Given this was a professional tradesman carrying out the work there is an expectation that they know what they're doing which should cover the driver from performing checks to the wheel nuts. A walk-around inspection covers visual elements and even the government website doesn't mention checking wheel nuts.

[@lanarkcd]

In the 1980s took my service van into the preferred tyre company designated by my company to have a slow puncture repaired on my front driver side tyre, when I saw the tyre fitter loosening the passenger side front wheel, I told him he was on the wrong side and left him to repair the puncture, when the job was done and the paperwork completed I left and headed onto the motorway where travelling at about 60mph I felt a shudder coming through my steering. I pulled over to the hard shoulder and found the wheel nuts on the front passenger side so loose I could spin them by hand. I re-tightened the nuts and carried on, as I was already running late I wasn’t able to get back to the tyre company, By the time I was back in the area again a week or so had passed and I didn’t see the point in reporting it at the time though I made a point of never going near this tyre company again.

[@davidellis8434]

Most tyre places have fine print saying to take the car back to them to have it re torqued after xx miles

[@derekheeps1244]

Or to check them yourself - which is why I keep a torque wrench in the boot of my car , besides being able to torque the bolts correctly if I have to change a wheel at the roadside , most particularly with alloy wheels where excess torque can easily damage the seat of the bolt hole ; with steel wheels you can pretty much stand on the wrench and apply as much torque as you like with no damage being likely .

[@SoulTouchMusic93]

Yeah but that's because they can loosen a bit overtime. When you take it from them it's supposed to be tight.

[@davideyres955]

Really? Most tyre places use impact guns that are way over powered for doing up bolts. I’ve had to use a lot of force when taking off the bolts after the tyre fitters have over tightened them. I always take them off and refit them, torquing them to spec.

[@cj-rb8fz]

@@davideyres955yes , most tyre receipts say to check the tightness of the bolts/nuts after so many miles , a lot of tyre fitters use an impact gun and then torque the nuts down to the correct torque or use a torque wrench afterwards

[@MrMartinoef]

@@davideyres955 Where I go they use impact guns to remove & put back on but they don't use them to the limit for tightening. they always finish the last tightening with a torque wrench

[@ElgarL]

Cars should implement what we truck/lorry drivers have; a very clear to see cap on every wheel nut with a pointer aligned to the next nut. We perform a check every morning and see that every nut is aligned. We check lights, fluids, tyres and all tie downs. The condition of the vehicle is your responsibility to check as it's your life that's at risk.

[@derekheeps1244]

Exactly , and although I might not want a big yellow arrow on my car wheels , I do have bolt caps with the Mercedes-Benz three pointed star on them and I always align them so one point is pointing to the centre of the wheel . I don't check those daily , but I do when checking my tyre pressures , which I routinely do when i refuel every 400-450 miles .

[@CrowPal]

But most cars have "fashionable" wheels, often with recessed wheel nuts that wouldn't accommodate pointers. Not saying that's how it should be, only how it is. People do like their sleek, shiny cars.

[@chriscook7049]

Its a good idea. On my motorbike if I unbolt anything critical, it gets a sharpie or paint-pen mark on the bolt and next to the bolt when its torqued back up. That way I know if its been done up, and I can see if the marks have moved that its come loose. Checking and changing wheels, and checking tires and brakes should be a requirement when doing a driving test. Its not hard, you just need to be methodical.

[@craigbrannan9734]

As should be expected of truck drivers because of the more serious and obvious consequences of not doing so could be. More should be expected of a driver of a larger vehicle than that of a smaller one.

[@CrowPal]

@@chriscook7049 I once drove my Honda 90 to the MOT station after setting the chain tension and failing to re-tighten the rear wheel nuts. Fortunately, the chain tensioning bolts held things in place for the short journey. The MOT tester was very understanding, and tightened them for me, but I couldn't believe I'd missed it. That shock made me question things.

[@user-ds9vh3gw1w]

To ensure the wheel nuts/bolts were correctly tightened before every journey would require every driver to own a correctly maintained and calibrated torque wrench and to have the correct torque settings information for their vehicle!

[@craigbrannan9734]

He's wrong anyway, so i wouldn't worry about it. No reasonable person who's paid a professional to conduct the work on a vehicle could reasonably be expected to check over their work unless it's something obvious like the lights, windowscreen, or the tread. You do have a responsibility for those types of things, but that's what an MOT is for, to check things like the bolts, amongst other things. If the mechanic conducts the work with reasonable care and skill, then the bolts won't come loose before the next MOT, tire change. He's over exaggerating, I've noticed him do it a couple of times, and some things have been far overstretched to the point of obscurity. He also has some good points sometimes. He also repeats the same things like TV licensing videos because they're quick and easy to throw out.

[@SBvice]

soon we're going to have to document ourselves taking a shit, take and store samples, you know just in case.

[@cookiemonster2299]

You don't already??? 🤣😂❤️

[@heckelphon]

You planning on suing the arse off yourself? 😁

[@rayt8606]

The legal profession are the perfect custodians for your samples.

[@BoxFlyHaydn]

I'm not a mechanic but I change and balance my own tyres and do a better job than most of the professional fitters I used over 20 years. Just because you hire someone to do a task isn't any guarantee that they'll do a faultless job. Always check your nuts after a tyre fitting, then again after 100-500 miles. Check and correct the tyre pressures immediately as well!

[@jackwaycombe]

I live in a small town with two garages/repair shops. Both total cowboys. I wouldn't trust either to wash my windscreen.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

100% the fitter, if the fitter was engaged by the supplier then they are probably jointly liable. Not reasonable to be any onus on the owner/driver

[@keithterry2169]

Drivers are responsible for cursory safety checks only; they cannot be expected to know torque settings etc. In this case the driver could reasonably expect the fitter to have done a professional job. If the vehicle was making unusual noises or handling badly then it would be up to the driver to stop and investigate.

[@derekheeps1244]

In law , the driver is ALWAYS responsible for any vehicle he is in charge of .

[@123TheCloop]

@@derekheeps1244 nope, under UK law you have a duty of care to ensure its road worthy, issue here is during driving tests your only taught basic road worthyness, this DOESNT include changing a wheel or checking bolts are secured properly so legally speaking this particular case wouldnt even be a duty of care by the driver. you could easily argue this in court and win on the realms of "expertise and law requirements" Thats like saying "I just had an engine rebuild but garage messed up and my engine blew up on the motorway but im still responsible to ensure its road worthy" that duty of care falls outside the knowledge and requirements when undetaking a driving test by the DVLA so full responsibility would fall to the garage for improper maintainance and negligence

[@Co074K4t5]

If you had an engine change and it blew up, but it blew up because of low fluid levels then yes it is your responsibility.

[@keithterry2169]

@@Co074K4t5 The wife of a former work colleague did exactly that - drove the car back from a service with the oil pressure warning lamp glowing. Fault of the garage for not tightening the sump plug of course but still her responsibility to act upon the warning lamp signal.

[@jimhill4725]

This is just pure intellectual BRILLIANCE in the legal analysis of plausible errors in ( almost ) any motor vehicle claim.

[@WillHest]

While I’m critical of too many drivers having no mechanical knowledge to identify if their cars road worthy or not. This is something I wouldn’t have checked. A real wake up call. Always check the work you’ve paid for. Whether incompetence or honest mistake it’s sometimes not worth the risk blindly trusting someone.

[@lulabellegnostic8402]

It’s not hard. You look at the tyre that needs to be replaced, all the info you need is on it.

[@ritac3784]

That was my thought too. If you are capable of checking to see bolts are tight then checking the size is a breeze. Even for me!

[@derek-press]

@@ritac3784 it is also on the car documents

[@justinformed7367]

My thoughts aswell. Information via the internet is not reliable.

[@ru76224]

What is exactly is your point here? You would expect the website to be accurate since it specifically asks for you car registration, otherwise they have no reason to ask for that detail when purchasing tyres. Secondly, the technician noticed it is the wrong tyre, so he did not leave it on the car. Thirdly, the issue here is that the technician did NOT tighten the nuts for one of the tyres. No ones highlighting the fact that it is a simple process to check which tyres need ordering. In another scenario the correct tyres could have been ordered, but the wrong tyres were delivered, the technician still has a major responsibility to return the vehicle to the same condition he started with, this includes tightening any nuts he has loosened.

[@maryh4650]

My hubby told me that the other day! My dad taught me to check oil, water and tyres at LEAST once a week. Mind you, I had a 1958 Austin A35!

[@CY.NIC123]

Driving with slightly loose bolts will damage the wheel by distorting the hole in the wheel. Another problem!

[@clivewilliams3661]

Unlikely to be the case as most modern wheels are hub centric so bear on the centre of the hub, not on the wheel bolts, The bolts merely press the wheel to the hub flange so can be slightly loose and little will happen until they are so loose to allow the wheel to fall off the hub, which means that the bolts would have to show at least 5mm of thread.

[@CrowPal]

@@clivewilliams3661 When it gets to the point of making audible noise and vibration though, damage is being done.

[@rickconstant6106]

@@clivewilliams3661 rotational changes will still cause the wheel to rock back and forth, elongating the boltholes

[@clivewilliams3661]

@@rickconstant6106 That would assume that all the bolts were loose to allow the wheel to rotate back and forth around the hub spigot and by that stage it would be noticeable that it would be rocking from side to side. Besides having a slightly out of round hole is not the end of the world because its the seat that clamps the wheel. The bolt hole is actually larger than the bolt or stud in any case.

[@clivewilliams3661]

@@CrowPal What specific damage? Even if the wheel bolts/nuts had backed off by say 4mm (3/16") there would be audible knocking as the wheel slapped against the hub but the bolt holes, but more importantly the seats are unlikely to be damaged. Its the seats that hold the wheel not the bolts through the holes. Of course you would have to be foolish not to investigate the noise and wayward handling before it becomes super critical,

[@user-rr1zt5go4q]

Very sound guidance ! Thank you !

[@dannycasson2487]

as a lorry driver this is part of our daily checks but it is only a visual check that is required, however if a wheel has been removed it has to be retorqued after set mileage or time stood

[@laceandwhisky]

When i get my tyres changed i take car home and use my own torque wrench to check the nuts/bolts as the garage only use an air gun to retightened plus you should always check after a few miles for it to settle down. 😊

[@yngndrw.]

Respectfully Daniel, I disagree that any liability could reasonably be placed on the driver in this situation for the following reasons: 1) In the driving test "show me, tell me" questions, wheel tightness (Or changing a wheel) is not covered. 2) The only way to correctly check the tightness is by removing and re-tightening the nut using a calibrated torque wrench, over-tightening is just as bad and the expectation for every driver to have a torque wrench with a current calibration is unreasonable in my view. 3) As you highlighted, in many cases you're not allowed in the workshop. 4) If a mechanic was replacing your ABS Pump for example, even on your driveway - It would be unreasonable for the driver to watch or record the entire process, especially within a tight engine bay. 5) It's unreasonable to expect an unqualified person to observe any technical process, as they may not know what is expected. You might think that tightening a wheel nut is trivial for any joe-blogs, but it has to be tightened to the correct torque using the correct equipment with a clean, dry thread. The stud must also be inspected for damage due to overtightening. When you get your fuel boiler serviced every year (We all do get it serviced every year, right?), do you watch the engineer to ensure that they do everything correctly? The same goes for an unvented cylinder which must also be inspected annually by a gas-safe engineer. If consumers were qualified to supervise these processes, there would be no need for mechanics or gas-safe engineers.

[@chriscook7049]

I'd argue that changing a wheel should be on the driving test. Along with other basic tasks. If I had kids, I'd make sure they knew how to do it. I know my dad showed me when I was young when these things needed to be done. You can check a bolt is reasonably close to tight with a spanner, although I agree when fitting it that it should be done with a torque wrench as you say. Wasn't the late queen trained in mechanics in WW2? If its not beneath her, then the rest of us have no excuse. Machine + vehicle operators should know how to to basic checks, including critical nuts and bolts, and wheels and tires. Far too many accidents happen because this doesn't get done. H&S law is written in blood.

[@yngndrw.]

@@chriscook7049 On one hand I agree that people should be empowered to fix things themselves. But on the other hand when car manufacturers often can't be bothered to include a spare wheel, is there much point teaching people to change a wheel when they have nothing to change it to? It would be nice if things changed, but I fear we're well beyond that point.

[@weaves1962]

Something most people have no idea about is that an an alloy wheel all wheel nuts/bolts need to be checked after driving 50Km because they do loosen up during this period. Because most don't know this is the reason many installers over torque the nuts/bolts.

[@philbateson7966]

I recently had new rear brake calipers and pads fitted. My wife and I went on motorway following day and there was severe vibration from back of car. (nothing noticeable at low speed prior to getting on motorway!) Pulled off at nearest exit and checked all wheels - the rear wheel bolts were completely loose on BOTH sides. I could finger-turn them several turns before going tight. To say i was livid was an understatement!!! Tightened them fully and continued with iur journey. Returned to garage next working day, told them. They assured me thry were tight after completion of work but put car on ramps, removed wheels and inspected. They were claiming it was dust and grime that had caused them to work loose! My thoughts were "TOTAL B******S"!!! For ALL 10 nuts to work loose??? They re-tightened them and "hey presto".. they were fine. The fact that I'd done 6000 miles since purchase and no issues and they work on it and could have been killed didn't come into it! Obviously, they didn't want to admit liability, but make up your own mind! Good advice Daniel. 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@archstanton5603]

Sage advice. In terms of any roadside repairs (and some garages) I always made sure the refitting of (say) wheels was observed and (at the first available opportunity) checked them with a torque wrench. Some might say it was over the top but having once found a loose wheel nut the consequences of not checking were too high.

[@praetorian65]

Whenever one of the mobile tyre fitters has changed my tyres, they have always made a point of having me observe them using a torque wrench on the nuts.

[@derekheeps1244]

Having had that experience in the past , I always carry a torque wrench in case I need to change a wheel at the roadside , and always check after leaving any tyre place at the first opportunity .

[@DamianHoward0]

What happens if you are unaware that the bolts were loosened in the first place? That wouldn't be unreasonable, considering the tires were not fitted because they didn't fit the car. I don't think you could probably check anyway without the right equipment, which is why you would hire a mechanic to change your tire in the first instance.

[@derekheeps1244]

The right equipment ? Every one should have at least a wheel spanner as part of their car toolkit .

[@asp383]

@@derekheeps1244 I believe only 2 makes of car come with a full size spare wheel as standard now, others may come with a space saver spare, so those will have wheel braces. Most cars are sold without a spare and you may have a can of tyrefix in case of a puncture, so you won't have a wheel brace supplied. If you're only using a wheel brace, it is guesswork as to how tight the wheel nuts are, you won't know if you need to tighten a little more or if you've done them too tight. It isn't reasonable or expected that a car owner will have a tool kit, let alone a torque wrench, even if they did, you can guarantee it hasn't been calibrated since it was manufactured, so cannot be relied upon to be correct.

[@123TheCloop]

@@derekheeps1244 sadly thats not a requirement as per DVLA so your asking drivers to do things outside the realm of what even the DVLA test you for in the UK so no, responsibility still wouldnt fall to the driver in anyway in this situation. dont get me wrong I think it should be part of a driving test but its not.

[@ThirdEnvoqation]

@@derekheeps1244 The right equipment is a calibrated torque wrench. A spanner is used to tighten the wheels up then a torque wrench is use to ensure they are secure to the wheel type and vehicle spec. Unless you are a mechanic I don't think anyone is carrying a £50-200 torque wrench in their boot, and certainly not getting it serviced to ensure it's within spec every few years.

[@iamaduckquack]

​@@derekheeps1244tool spanner? At least try and get the name right.

[@andreaclarke4955]

A similar story happened to myself on more than one occasion years ago, after wheel changes, bolts left loose, car, with myself as the driver wobbling all over the road, the last time this happened the garage manager was sincerely apologetic, confirmed the engineer who left the bolts loose the previous day "was from Tamworth", but wasn't there at that moment - I live in Notts - (for the manager to give him a drilling). The manager retightened the bolts himself. Frightening experience made worse because someone I work with seemed to be in the know, while on the phone to his friend he mocked the situation, thank you Blackbeltbarrister, I wrote down details of experience in my diary at that time, God bless you and your family for your helpful advice

[@samfarmer753]

Absolutely 100% excellent advice. To all doubters - we ALL have a legal duty of care to check the safety of our vehicles - WE are responsible for them EVERY time we take one out on the public road. Basic maintenance and semi-regular checks are all that is normally required, but is legally mandated as we are responsible for the control of a machine that can so easily kill or maim if mishandled etc. Given the recent maintenance, it is not unreasonable to say the owner should at least have checked that the wheels have been refitted correctly. You should always have a wheel brace in the boot, and it only takes a few seconds to check. Be safe. Stay safe. ❤

[@samfarmer753]

I should point out that I worked in the motor insurance industry for 21 years and most insurers will absolutely seize this as a way to reduce some of their liability- in this case the tyre company and fitter's insurance.

[@vinnylee878]

Back in my day ,men did things and knew things,like checking the size of the tyre from the information on the side wall ,a lot of people don't seem to know anything anymore because its a button away to find out,and this is what happens,knowledge is freedom

[@martinarscott3524]

tbf I've swapped an engine, replaced a gearbox, a head gasket, etc etc, but you can't be expected to know everything about everything, if you're saying it's the owners responsibility to check that a paid professional has done their job properly where does it end? Is it your fault your boiler blows up and destroys half your neighbour's house too because you didn't keep an eye on what the installer was doing and take a video of his work???

[@derekheeps1244]

Not being sexist here but both of my ex partners were/are very knowledgeable about cars ; my first ex was a biker too so knew her way round motorbikes as well as cars and could show most men up ; so it is not just men who knew about such things , lots of women did too , and some still do .

[@derekheeps1244]

@@martinarscott3524 I would always look over such a job after he'd gone , and while not a gas fitter feel quite comfortable with the water and electrical side of things , and have worked on oil fired boilers , including changing one , in the past . If i was suspicious of anything I'd either have the person back , or if in doubt get a second qualified opinion . There might not be legislation mandating this kind of responsibility in a domestic setting , but there certainly is in an automotive setting , if you are caught in charge of an unroadworthy car on the highway , the legal position is that YOU are responsible .

[@Dekedence]

different generations know different things. I don't drive, so don't know how to change a tyre. You probably don't know how to do plenty of stuff I would consider pretty basic. I mean, christ, my parents don't even know how to change the AV input on the TV.

[@vinnylee878]

@Dekedence like I said,I'm 60 years old, I don't stop learning,I got into crypto 4 years ago and don't go a day without learning something new,it's in my DNA to be this way I guess and then can't understand why otheres are not like that

[@LoremIpsum1970]

Even if they did tighten them, you wouldn't know if they were tightened to the correct torque unless you checked yourself or asked the question..

[@derekheeps1244]

that is why I have a torque wrench in the boot of each of my cars ; part of the basic kit I carry in case I have to change a wheel at the roadside ; and I know the specified torques for each of my cars .

[@Baerchenization]

@@derekheeps1244 Me too, only I had mistakenly recorded the spec for the previous model, and so drove for about a year with 130Nm instead of the required 160Nm... as you can see, I have survived ;) I do have a printout in my glove box for a lot of cars, so I do not kill anyone when giving roadside assistence.

[@mikedavies1531]

when ever i have my tyers changed they always say check the nuts in a couple of days.

[@doriskarloff964]

A timely reminder BBB, thank you.

[@bingbong4848]

A few years ago I crashed my BMW Mini and my insurance company (fully comp) only paid out half the value. Reason given: My full service history included one service that was at a non BMW dealership. I gave up arguing after a couple of months and moved on with my life. I imagine that most folks, like myself, don't have the will and resources to slug it out with these companies.

[@loopwithers]

You are not alone. The very real prospects of having to pay out millions in compensation has resulted in car manufacturers and insurance companies working "very closely" together. While this unregulated relationship does indeed result in safer and more reliable vehicles, it also has a negative impact for the vehicle owner. For example, a replacement (3kg) plastic overhead parcel tray for a 2015 Renault Kangoo van has the intriguing price tag of...€793.80 + VAT. Other manufacturers are the same. I'm not singling Renault out.

[@tnetroP]

That is odd. I've never heard of that one before. Was the lack of servicing in any way related to the lack of servicing? e.g. a component faulure which would have been checked as part of the service only performed at BMW? Normally the MOT (for 3 year+ cars) is the test of road worthiness. Did your insurance policy state that the car must be serviced at a BMW dealership?

[@Alex-if3sr]

youre talking out your arse. Crashing a car has nothing to do with your service history they tried to avoid paying you and won. Your car was a write off and they tried saving as much money as possible by saying your service history not upto date. You fell for the trap and paid the price.

[@simonlb24]

Were you leasing the car or had you bought it outright? In the UK, if you own the car outright you can have it serviced anywhere you like. I've never heard of any insurance company needing to check the service history of a car as the only things which are legally required are the MOT certificate and road tax. Or did you perhaps get your insurance through one of those extremely cheap companies on a price comparison site? Some of those companies have all sorts of restrictions in the small print which most people never bother to actually read.

[@tnetroP]

@@Alex-if3sr Yes I think you hit the nail on the head, although I would have used more polite language myself. It sounds like the car was worth (for example) £20k for a mint condition low mileage full dealer history vehicle. But they used the lack of dealer history to say it was worth less. This can cause a vehicle to be worth very slightly less but not 50% less.

[@Screwy9758]

How many motorists check their wheel nuts after the removal/refitting after 30 minutes if standing or 25miles driving? Not many I bet. when I remove/refit a wheel, it's torqued up milage taken & a note stuck to the cluster to re-check wheel studs.

[@VIPOdyssey176]

As a vehicle technician who carries out roadside breakdowns, I ALWAYS make sure the member is present for the entire time I am with them and the vehicle, as per the company ts and cs and I always write the torque setting that I torqued wheels nuts to, it’s my biggest fear as a professional that wheel nuts coming loose leads to injury. I myself have attended breakdowns where I’ve seen all 4 wheel nuts loose and a wheel has come off on a motorway. Luckily when I’ve seen it it’s not been too big of a deal

[@video99couk]

A hire car was provided to my workplace for me to use on a long journey the following day to an airport. I walked around the car and found the tyres to be worn well beyond the legal limit. I contacted the hire company (a major chain by the way) and was told to bring it back to them and they would swap out the car. I wasn't keen, since I would be knowingly driving on illegal tyres and that would be my responsibility. Alas I had no option but to do so, it was too late in the day for a replacement vehicle to be provided to my workplace. Had I stood my ground then myself and my colleagues would have missed our flights the next day, not a good look with my employers. It was a dry day so I figured from an actual safety point of view, it was fine, but legally less so.

[@sf2201]

I have had a similar issue picking up a car at Heathrow, bad damage to sidewall with cords exposed, salesman tried to make out it was fine and I needed to take the car as they didn't have another in the same class, I refused and they got there mechanic out to confirm it was fine. He was much better, took one look and refused to allow the vehicle to go out. I ended up with a free upgrade to a very nice Merc, do wonder what would have happened if some one with less knowledge was taken in by the salesman, as far as I aware an unfit tyre is 3 points and a fine for the driver.

[@st.george007]

Having thought about this, I keep coming back to the driver. I want to blame the tech, badly. It is the drivers responsibility to be aware that someone messed with the wheels. Even if I did it myself correctly, I would have my senses heightened for vibration which would happen leading up to the coming off of the wheel.

[@zippy5131]

As an ex- road transport engineer, the onus is always on the person driving the vehicle to make certain that the vehicle (No matter the size or weight-Lorry to bicycle) is safe and fit for the road and any load whether towed or stowed on the roof is secure and safe. You have to remember that the majority of people don't even check there tyre pressures weekly, or before a long journey, and even any fluid levels. There is a sever lack of basic knowledge of maintenance this day and age.

[@Vaquero4382]

To say that the driver of the vehicle shares responsibility for work, poorly done, by a "professional", would be akin to making them share responsibility for the work of doctors, bridge builders and designers, building designers and builders, attorneys, etc. The layman counts on "professionals" to know how to, and to perform, their jobs with competence.

[@johnnydiamondsmusic1673]

All tyre companies I have used have a sign that says “Check Wheel Nuts after 50 miles”

[@FoxyEmGee]

If I'm paying a professional to touch my vehicle surely they should be liable for their work! And more then that Ive paid someone to do a job so even a old fault he should have pointed out

[@laceandwhisky]

It's proving it 😊

[@claveh5790]

Does this mean that all "expert" jobs carried out should be checked? Am I expected to follow a plumber around checking his work, when I employed his services as I am not an expert? As someone else has pointed out, going into a tyre shop workshop is a big "no no" and once vehicle is back on the ground there is no realistic way of telling if any wheels nuts are too loose. 😢 XXX

[@chriscurtain1816]

Agreed. But the insurance company's barrister probably doesn't share your practical approach and common sense.

[@claveh5790]

@@chriscurtain1816 agreed, very good point. XXX

[@IMBlakeley]

Yeah. The last tyre I had changed for instance was done at the MOT/Service. I dropped the car off and picked it up a day later with all the work done.

[@olirc]

Nowadays, you don't get access to the workshop where work is carried out on your car, even in tyre shops, so getting video/photographic proof of work carried out would be impossible.

[@MrGBH]

If that happens, then it would be unreasonable to expect you to double-check everything If it's done on your property, then it can be argued that it's reasonable for you to at least observe the maintenance and double-check the results.

[@dees3179]

The fitters really don’t like it if you watch them work. It does not go down well at all.

[@roylec]

@@MrGBH I disagree. You’re suggesting that a pensioner should stand in the road and observe everything a mechanic does with a critical eye. ..can you imagine the reaction of the mechanic? He’s not going to be a happy bunny.

[@derekheeps1244]

Then go to another garage ; most places are happy for you to inspect their work

[@roylec]

@@derekheeps1244 Again, unrealistic. A mechanic has one of your wheels off and points out that he’d rather you didn’t ask any questions or watch so intently. So you say, in that case, put my wheel back on, give me a full refund and I’ll order it elsewhere. It’s just not going to happen.

[@dcvariousvids8082]

Thank you. I once had a wheel come off a work pickup, thankfully I was driving at around 20mph, maybe a little more. It was a narrow winding road I often travelled. I was working at the time, hence driving that vehicle. The vehicle had been in for a service a few days before, at the garage that regularly looked after the vehicle and had probably been driven 12-20mi since, (mainly on private, off highway roads). The vehicle was empty at the time. I was approaching a tight right hand bend and slowing. Suddenly the OSR end dropped and together with steering to the right for the bend. The vehicle and me ended off-road, narrowly missing some small trees on the opposite side of the road. When I got out, I was not injured, I checked to make sure the vehicle wasn’t going to be an obstacle to other road users and being completely off the highway, it wasn’t going to be a problem. While checking, it was obvious what was the matter, i.e. the OSR wheel was missing. I found the wheel in a hedge, rolled it back and put in the loadbed of the pickup. Also while checking the vehicle, I’d noticed some of the wheel studs had stripped threads. I wandered along the road and found five wheel nuts at roughly 100yd. intervals. Pocketed them and transferred to glovebox on return. Then walked back to base about a mile away. Informed my manager he wouldn’t be make his afternoon meeting. His first concern was for my safety and was I hurt; did I feel I needed to see a doctor, I said no. Then asked about the vehicle, was it in one piece? I think my slight chuckle gave him his answer. Asked where it was and if we’d needed a new/replacement pickup? After a cuppa at his place, (we both lived in tied accommodation and were neighbours). We walked to the vehicle to check damage and to better enable me to write-up the accident report form and him to state it wasn’t my fault in any way. He walked back to get the garage for recovery, while I stayed with the pickup and to struct garage to check it over, repair anything caused by the accident and instruct whichever idiot, to this time ensure the wheels were properly secured. All at their expense. The apprentice who fitted that particular wheel, took the instruction to heart. Having nearly lost his job over the incident. A few months later on a different property but with the same pickup. I got a puncture on a different tyre. Much as I tried to loosen the nuts I couldn’t. I rung my manager and explained, he ok’d me ringing the AA. Even the AA guy with a short scaffold pipe on the extension on his wrench couldn’t loosen them. In the end, the very same garage had to recover the thing again. The garage recovered and repaired, the puncture, (apparently the apprentice had partially stripped the studs, when he aggressively over tightened the nuts). So they had to renew the studs for a second time. When they returned the vehicle to our site, we thought it slightly odd, as we usually dropped off vehicles and collected them. They jacked up each corner in turn and demonstrated every nut could be loosened if needed and re-tightened all of them. And all at their expense. After two recoveries, that should never have been needed, if the apprentice had been first diligent and then not overly zealous; he was after all in his second year and had repaired and changed tyres before. The garage decided his attitude to customer safety and general work ethic, was not in line with their way of operating a garage of some sixty odd years and was also detrimental to their customers’ confidence. So the apprentice was out of a job. But being in a small rural community, where everyone knew each other. The other two garages wouldn’t take him on and I believe being a local lad, he then had to travel 30mi or so when he did find a placement. I don’t know if it was in the same trade. But all was good with us and the garage before and afterwards. No harsh words and they continued to look after our vehicles. Fortunately for the garage, they retained the business of our site and of the next nearest ten sites of the same organisation. Our vehicles mainly included pickups, estate cars, LWB & SWB Landrovers, trailers, small vans, tractors and a few Unimogs. Plus the majority of private vehicles belonging to staff.

[@MaritimeFox]

HGV drivers have a duty to check for loose wheel nuts. Unlike car drivers this is made easier by the position of yellow plastic markers attached to the nuts.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I'd think loose bolts would be noticeable long before they came off

[@larryz4087]

Yes, I agree. Loose bolts/wheels usually make funny noises when driving. I think its very important for any driver to be aware of the "usual" noises their car makes and not to ignore any "unusual" noise they hear.

[@HertsCommuter]

@@larryz4087Try telling that to the loonies who drive around wearing noise-cancelling headphones!

[@clivewilliams3661]

It is perfectly feasible for a number of the wheel bolts/nuts to come off and the wheel hold on by the hub centric ring and then the last bolt(s) to shear off suddenly

[@derekheeps1244]

@@HertsCommuter You would feel the wobble in the seat of your pants too .

[@maychilton4078]

Yep, This happened to me several years ago after a garage had changed the tyres- we noticed on the M62 when car sounded (and felt!)like we were driving a washing machine, and pulled over!!

[@profnostalgia_UK]

When you have tyres replaced, the invoice generally advises that you check the bolts for a few weeks afterwards.

[@keithalderson100]

Since using the correct torque tightness - as off the production line - does NOT require this driver/owner check, this small print is a legal cop-out!

[@derekheeps1244]

Usually after about 50 miles to ensure none have loosened off .

[@chriscook7049]

@@keithalderson100 Do cars not have an early service when new? My motorbikes do, and this is one reason why. Whenever I take my wheels off I'm checking them for the next 2 weeks very carefully, even after using a torque wrench.

[@profnostalgia_UK]

@@keithalderson100 and when your vehicle has had an MoT, you become liable for its state as soon as you've driven it out of the garage.

[@chrisw3771]

It can also happen during general maintenance, several years ago my care was in the garage for new brakes, I took a taxi back to the garage & drove straight to work from there. After about 10 miles there was a clicking noise on bends. I pulled in after 12 miles (first place available) & found all 4 wheels had just been done finger tight & the clicking was the wheels moving side to side. I tightened them all at the side of the road luckily, a few more miles & they would have come off.

[@reallynotpc]

As a DIY mechanic, I have made this mistake a couple of times. It should (and did) quickly become fairly obvious when wheel nuts/bolts are loose and in practice you would have to be remarkably persistent driving through the rattle to get to the stage of losing a wheel.. These days I use a trusted supplier and watch him torque up each wheel. Even so, manufacturers' tightening recommendations are generally at a 'belt and braces' level. Your legal advice is always appreciated!

[@AndRB859]

One wheel at a time. Simple as that. (Only loosen the bolts on the wheel you are working on)

[@CaptainHat]

Doesn't work like that really, especially as a professional. If you're gonna be lifting up the entire front end of the car, you don't want to have to jack it up, stand it, undo one wheel, lift it off the stands, drop it, loosen the second wheel, jack it up again, stand it again etc. That's a huge waste of time and money. Better procedural change would be to make sure you fully remove any wheel you've loosened before you do anything else as soon as you've got the car on the stands.

[@rickconstant6106]

@@CaptainHat As a professional, you would have an impact gun capable of removing and refitting the wheels while it was raised. All you need to do then is check the torque once it is sitting on the ground again.

[@CaptainHat]

@@rickconstant6106 Loosening bolts on a raised car can still be a pain in the arse even if you do have an impact gun dude. It's still an easier procedural change to just whizz off all the wheels you've loosened as soon as it's on stands. Doesn't lose you any time if things go as they should, and if they don't then you've got a ready made reminder to remember to set the torque once you're done.

[@AndRB859]

@@CaptainHat As a PROFESSIONAL there is NO EXCUSE for leaving the wheel nuts undone. You can’t have it both ways! And don’t say everyone makes mistakes when lives are at risk.

[@CaptainHat]

@@AndRB859 DId I say there was? The disagreement we have is about procedure, not result.

[@dartmoordriver6440]

Whenever I have bought tyres in recent years, there has been a standard disclaimer on the invoice that says the wheels have been tightened to the specified torque but that I should check it after 100 miles.

[@zeeblats]

Van drivers daily checks consist of: Know your vehicle, always do walk around checks: state of tyres, pressures,wheels, wheel nuts via torque settings, damage, wiper blades, lights, oil level via dipstick, coolant level, brake fluid level, washer fluid top up, ad blu, check windscreen for chips and cracks, ensure all windows are clear of dirt/ice/snow. In the case of snow, this must be removed from the vehicle before moving. In this case though, there may have been vanity covers/wheel trims covering the wheel nuts and an expectation of wheel nuts torqued correctly would be natural.

[@fredbloggs5902]

The problem with wheel nuts is that you can’t tighten them correctly while the wheel is off the ground. So people do them finger tight, lower the jack, and then forget to do the final tightening 🙄

[@derek-press]

fred yes you can ,with a good torque wrench, but you have to roll the car back a few feet and then forward ,it will never be 100% but pretty damn near

[@fredbloggs5902]

@@derek-press How can you roll the car when it’s up on the jack?

[@derek-press]

@@fredbloggs5902 you tighten wheel nuts when the car is on a jack ? get in the corner with the pointy hat RIGHT NOW

[@fredbloggs5902]

@@derek-press I clearly stated that you can’t. You’re a bit dim aren’t you 🙄

[@derek-press]

@@fredbloggs5902 not as dumb as somebody who tightens nuts while the car is jacked up ,but dumb enough to converse with you

[@colindawson4818]

I think that you are talking too specific. I'm not a mechanic, so don't know what the guy did. Surely all that I need to do is ask the question "is it ok to drive the car after you leave?" If he says yes, I've done my part. I have no idea what the mechanic did, and wouldn't have a clue that he removed more than that one tyre's bolts. So why should I be expected to know that he put things back properly?

[@derekheeps1244]

it is your legal duty to check .

[@juliaw7533]

Well said. I left my car at the MOT centre. They passed it. They are the experts thats why I take it there to ensure it's roadworthy. Can you imagine how huffed they'd be if a woman then started asking them if they had done their job properly? We'd be labelled one of those customers to which you say "sorry we are fully booked for months!" I drove my car approx half a mile home and tje steering wheel started vibrating violently. So I pulled over and rang them. "You'll have to drive it back" they said. Luckily I got there in 1 pieve and the MOT centre apologised and said they hadn't tightened on the bolts so that was why my stearing was violently shaking. Lucky to be alive!! Why on earth should it be my job to make sure they are doing their job. We'll be policing the police next. Actually good point, wr should be. Anyway most women including me don't even know if they've changed the oil filter after we've paid for a service! Ridiculous! I wonder if BBB would mind if anyone wrote notes about his behaviour, advice or even filmed him giving his professional 1:1 advice?... just for quality or their own reliance and back up of course!!!

[@UKMonkey]

​@@derekheeps1244 By getting a professional to look at it - they HAVE checked. If you expect to find issues that a professional would miss, then either the professional should be better licensed - which is their / the license governing bodies issue... or your ego needs a check. Either way - they've done the best effort they can.

[@MrTwincam316]

This is something I have a slight experience with, had four new tyres and my wheels needed alloy wheel nut washers. A couple days later I noticed my car was making a “clunk clunk” noise. Couldn’t work it out but skied my brother to have a listen (he’s a mechanic). 50 yards later he stopped the car and did up all 16 wheel nuts as they were finger tight only.

[@macbitz]

Back in the old days, my dad would check the lights, brake lights, tyre tread & pressure, washer fluid, etc. once a week. As a kid it was a treat for me to be allowed to press the brake pedal for the brake light test. These days I think few drivers perform these basic checks and I know I don't as often as I should.

[@ifell3]

Also make a note that the wheel monkey hasn't overtightening them that they have stretched past their threshold.

[@IMBlakeley]

The times that has happened. Came out of my surgery one day to find another patient struggling to remove her flat tyre couldn't shift the bolts. I tried to help and even with my lardy carcass bouncing on the wrench could not shift them, had to call recovery.

[@derekheeps1244]

That is why I have a torque wrench in the boot of each of my cars .

[@ricequackers]

Too many give it a couple of ugga duggas with the impact wrench instead of torquing to spec by hand with a torque wrench properly.

[@CrowPal]

@@ricequackers Too many? I think almost all of them, especially the low-cost outfits that just want to get the job done quickly while listening to music. The things I have seen are the reason I do my own car work. I once saw a double-glazing fitter use his ugga dugga wrench to turn a cam that needed one eighth of a turn, and stripped it. I wondered where the "one eighth of a turn" setting was on his wrench. Having messed it up, he then had the audacity to ask me for the proper tool for the job (which I happened to have), but I refused.

[@iamaduckquack]

​Congratulations on being well off enough to afford A) multiple cars B) multiple torque wrenches and C) the money it costs to get each of those torque wrenches calibrated. Meanwhile here in the real world that isn't a luxury many can afford. @@derekheeps1244

[@NEMES1-S]

As a driving instructor for 22 years and a driver in London for over 50 years, I am astounded by the automotive stupidity of most modern drivers over their inability to understand the most basic aspects of vehicle maintenance and safety.

[@roylec]

Are you saying that checking the torque of your wheel nuts is one of the most basic aspect of vehicle maintenance and safety?

[@evilutionltd]

What gets me is that it used to be common knowledge on how to do certain maintenance and checks and things like changing a wheel. Even topping up the battery. It's just something you learned because you owned a car. These days, even though some of it is baked into the test, people know nothing about car maintenance.

[@philipoakley5498]

I'm not surprised! But then again, I do like to look at all the other things we can no longer do because they have gone out of fashion, such as practising with bow and arrow, or growing our own vegetables, or sowing, make and mend, walking to places, the wireless, gramophones, copperplate handwriting, etc., etc.

[@derekheeps1244]

I share your astonishment .

[@derekheeps1244]

@@roylec of course it is .Just like ensuring your tyres are in good order and correctly inflated - you can be charged for failure to do so .

[@angusmacmillan5365]

Many years ago I had a similar thing happen to me. A couple of day following the fitting of a tyre, I heard a rattle coming from the wheel when driving. I stopped and found the nuts were loose but not only that; the holes in the wheel rim had worn which meant the rim had to be replaced. It was my own fault as I hadn't tightened the nuts tight enough. Lesson learned!

[@MrMartinoef]

I have used the same Tyre garage for years. Every time I had tyres changed & went to pay, I got the receipt & the chap always said " I have to say it, but remember to check the wheel nuts after X miles or a week" Since he's retired I have been there & no-one has said that! Customers also signed the Invoice/receipt which basically then relieves the tyre company of any negligence, I presume, if wheel nuts came loose & puts the onus on the owner / driver. I'm sure it's in the small print on the Invoice/receipt but was verbally said every time tyres were changed on vehicles despite them using torque wrenches. I suppose despite the cost of professional torque wrenches they too could fail & not provide correct tightness. I have had wheel nuts loosen & you will hear & feel it before the wheel totally comes off. Luckily wasn't going fast but stopped in time. Thanks for these Vids - great Information

[@AnalogueSolutions]

I had kwik fit mobile fit two tyres. About a week later I noticed severe vibration. Found two bolts missing and the rest very loose.

[@MiPointIs]

Similar situation years ago for my dad He got tyre replaced at the tyre company premises, he had hub caps which obscured the wheel nuts, he soon heard a rattle when he drove but initially didn’t realise the connection to the tyre replacement. He eventually realised that the noise was from the hub cap which he removed to find 3 wheel nuts loose in the hub cap with only a single wheel nut holding the wheel in place. My dad believed the wheel nuts had been tightened using a torque wrench but it appeared that the mechanic had either failed to use the torque wrench or failed to check the machine had successfully tightened the wheel nuts. My dad was furious and returned to the place he had purchased the tyre to give then a piece of his mind!

[@ivortoad]

Before the ubiquitous fitting of alloy wheels older cars used to have metal hubcaps. If a bolt or wheel nut became undone it would happily make an alerting rattling sound within.

[@CaptainHat]

I mean, a loose wheel of any sort makes a Godawful grinding noise even at low speed. It's notvhard to spot.

[@chriswilliams-dm9tx]

It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure his vehicle is safe as you mentioned. The driver knew the wheels were being worked on. I am told to check my wheels after a visit to a garage.

[@Nuts-Bolts]

Many modern Cars have Geo-fence (which can limit distance away from home you can travel) & Geo-timing (which can be used to enforce curfew) capabilities built into the software. You can check this out in the Terms & Conditions one has to click on but few bother to read all the way through.

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

Yup mine does

[@malfunction8165]

Mine never will, it's a kit car, road, seat, arse. All this technology scares me because if we as drivers cant control it, then who does and under what conditions will it be enforced? Well the last few years have shone a light on that one. Social credit score anyone? What sort of car do you have? EV or a proper car.

[@rchas1023]

How many drivers know the correct torque for the nuts/bolts? ... possess the necessary tool(s)? ... could be expected to ... ?

[@colinprice712]

Usually the supplied wheel brace is just long enough for a person to tighten the wheel nuts/studs without overtorquing. If you use a spider or air tool, then you need to check either a torque wrench

[@nickhaag7803]

Many tyre places have a warning on your invoice that you should check the wheel nuts after the first 50 miles which they will do free of charge.

[@philipoakley5498]

Been there once. I hadn't tightened all the wheel bolts. I 'recognised' the knocking noise while driving (low speed town driving) and was able to re-tighten in place, thankfully hadn't lost any of the bolts. Lesson learnt.

[@user-nx8ii4ef7f]

Barristers view on fitting a webcam to a car, bike etc? Liabilities, police rights, insurance etc. So I get a new gas fire fitted but blow the house up. Was I supposed to have checked the gas fitters work?

[@martinarscott3524]

exactly, I had a new gas boiler fitted, I know nothing about boilers or plumbing, to expect me to go around videoing the installation is absurd and I'm pretty sure the installer would refuse to work with a camera in his/her face, I certainly wouldn't have known what to check afterwards. It's the exact same principle. If you pay a professional to carry out work they should be solely responsible for their errors

[@derekheeps1244]

YES, I would .

[@derekheeps1244]

@@martinarscott3524 If you don't know what to look for you can ask another professional to come and inspect the job : cheaper for an hour's labour than a blown up house .

[@martinarscott3524]

@@derekheeps1244 So every time people get someone in to do a job you think it reasonable they pay a second person to check it? ok......

[@ifell3]

That's well dodgy. A lot of people put aftermarket wheels on which doesn't always work when you then order stuff.

[@lisab3396]

👌👌 Excellent info. The one thing you hadn't mentioned should it ever come up in court. The mechanic states that he re-tightened (both wheela) and tightened them to the "Factory Torque Specifications". After that time, I have have no control or knowledge on wether someone else has worked on the vehicle since! Some others have mentioned that "The Pro Mech/Installer" should know best. However, do your own research and you will discover that Tire/Tyre installers in the garage or service in the field, are junior staff with basic knowledge of the trade and even the job to which they are assigned. Honest and good intentions just don't cut it. As a last note: Any service person/mechanic is going to be very aggitated if you observe and take pictures or video! But I totally agree with you that we should.

[@davidlucas6701]

This is why businesses are legally obliged to carry public liability insurance! Unfortunately many tyre shops have youngsters working that are more interested in whats playing on the radio than doing the job safely!

[@JohnCurtinmadrid]

When I was at boarding school one of our most hated teachers had the habit of leaving his car in the school car park when he went down to the pub and picking it up the following day. You guessed it, we removed all the wheel nuts. In the seventies, the bolts stuck out of the drum and the wheel was secured by nuts, all covered up with hub caps. The result was catastrophic as he hit a pothole at the school gates and two of the wheels flew off, broke a window and damaged another car. Could have killed someone if they´d been hit. We were never caught, thankfully.

[@laceandwhisky]

A prank with dire results😢 but was fun in them days😊

[@JohnCurtinmadrid]

@@athena-iv3yt Interesting point Daniel. Is there a statute of limitations on hooligan schoolboys? 🤣🤣

[@derekheeps1244]

What a jolly jape ! However , by completely removing ALL the nuts he was never going to get far , or up to any speed before something fell off . I presume you were all below the age of criminal responsibility at the time anyway , and of course it is now time barred .

[@JohnCurtinmadrid]

@@derekheeps1244 Yes, that was our "reasoning" (if you can use the term for adolescent idiots). However, we started to get really worried until he got to the pothole because it wasn´t immediately apparent that that was going to happen.

[@CrazedFandango]

Most garages do up wheel nuts with an air gun. Contrary to popular belief, they do not tighten them to the correct tension (usually under rather than over). Nor do they add an lube to the wheel/wheel nuts to stop them rusting in place.

[@grahvis]

Off topic, but it's a good idea to put a spot of lube on the bolts when assembling flat packed furniture.

[@tomlewitt]

@grahvis The general rule is *not* to use any lubrication on wheel nuts. The only thing keeping them tight is metal-metal stiction. There is no lock washer, of course. So if they're lubricated, they're more likely to come loose. Be cautious with this. Lots on google.

[@tomlewitt]

@@grahvis The general rule is *not* to use any lubrication on wheel nuts. The only thing keeping them tight is metal-metal stiction. There is no lock washer, of course. So if they're lubricated, they're more likely to come loose. Be cautious with this. Lots on google.

[@CrazedFandango]

@@tomlewitt Which is why people cannot change them at the roadside when they get a puncture. If it's a rule, show me where it says this.

[@heckelphon]

They might use a torque stick to limit the force as a rough and ready guide. In the past I've had to use a wrecking bar and stand on a pipe slid on the end of it to get wheel nuts undone after a tyre place had reinstalled them.

[@rodh1404]

Something similar to this happened in the USA. A Michigan court decided that retightening the bolts wasn't really required to perform a tyre rotation back in 2013. Google "Court: Tightened lug nuts not guaranteed in tire rotation" to read the story.

[@johnarmstrong5727]

The local tyre service I use has sign in the building stating that it is the customers responsibilty to ensure wheel nuts are checked after tyre fitting and this is also on the receipt and it is always a good idea to check that you still have the key for any locking wheel nuts before you drive off.

[@FlameBlue1989]

i guess know one checks there wheels nuts anymore, thats a bit stupid particular after a tyre change.

[@gazjonze]

I’m a Tyre Inspector for the largest tyre supplier in the country (yes this is a real job) and I have never come across a fitter being held responsible for a wheel coming off. Whilst I agree that if a fitter has worked on your vehicle you should be able to assume it’s safe, the ultimate responsibility for the vehicle safety lies with the driver. A loose wheel nut (or several in this case) is easily found without any special tools. This is not to say that a legal precedent will not be set in future, but as far as I’m aware it’s never happened.

[@Paul-FrancisB]

My wife had a brake line replaced on the rear of her car, the garage had to remove the rear wheel to gain access and didn't refit correctly. She collected that car and then drove to her son's and had to stop on the hard shoulder of the motorway as the wheel came loose mangling the studs and wheel bolts holes. When she stopped there were only two loose nuts left. The garage did repair the damage, being local it was fearful of it's reputation, however saying that this never happens is not correct, humans always make mistakes and you can't check everything from a garage yourself, especially if you don't know what has been disturbed.

[@derekheeps1244]

I had that happen , and after tightening the remaining bolts , as I stated above , I went back to the place and complained ; the owner tore a strip off his fitter and implemented a policy of every car being checked by two fitters before leaving ; it never went to court because I became aware something was wrong after driving about 10 miles , quickly found the problem , tightened the bolts and went back to complain since one of the five bolts on the one wheel concerned ( the other three wheels were fine ) had fallen out . I am sure you will be more than ware of how many people drive with tyres worn beyond legal limits , or worn unevenly due to misalignment , or with other defects , and now with the prevalence of low profile tyres both tyre and wheel damage due to kerning ; often borne of ignorance or sheer disinterest , until the law catches up with them and they discover the level of fines and points they can accrue FOR EACH WHEEL .

[@lmpoopingpigeon]

It's not always that easy to find it out without special tools. Yes, every car has to have tool in case if would need to replace a wheel. But for let's say older lady- that would be quite hard to find out. People going to professionals for a reason. Otherwise, according to you, every time we have some sort of repairs at the garage, we would need to check if that part has been replaced properly. Makes no sense.

[@IanMSpencer]

Back in the late 80s, a mate bought a classic Triumph Stag. (Yes they were classics even back then). He took it to KwikFit, yes, even back then, and had all the tyres replaced. He got 100 yards down the road before they fell off. No bolts at all. In the repair shop for 3 months waiting for parts.

[@Mambauk]

I check my cars on a weekly basis. Engine oil, screen wash, brake fluid, tyre pressures and wheel bolts. If i have a tyre replaced/repaired, i always check the wheel bolts when i get home or after a few miles. Most garages suggest checking the wheel bolts after a certain amount of miles.

[@PeteCourtier]

Having experienced loose wheel nuts, I can say you know straight away. Noise and diminished handling. But then many motorists are ignorant of a roadworthy vehicle. It’s an appliance to them. A noisy washing machine still cleans🤷‍♂️

[@mortallious1234]

Subscribed, sorry been watching many times and haven't subscribed, the prompt really worked. Fab content as always.

[@DraconianSW_BUSTERS]

👍 Precise & Correct . Thank You.

[@Jorvik-The-Poor]

I've personally seen this happen quite a lot at garages. Drivers trust their mechanic to remember to tighten all the wheel nuts after new brakes, but so often they forget one of the wheels. They're rushing to get to the next customer.

[@lumpycustard3433]

I had a puncture fixed on the rear wheel of my bicycle and it was returned to me with the wheelnuts just hand tight! I completely hear what you’re saying.

[@zorbathegreek192]

I regularly remove the wheels from my cars for tyre checks and cleaning the insides. A small tip, after driving 20 miles, check the wheel nuts for tightness. Similarly if you drive through water, not deep, carry out light breaking when in a safe spot to assist drying the discs.

[@IncognitoChild]

Most "hands on" motorists, who have an understanding of car maintenance, would know the tyres sizes that are fitted to their vehicles. They would not rely on a website’s registration checker to order tyres against and if they did, they’re not likely to be the kind of persons who would know what to look at, regardless of what they are being asked in court. The practice of breaking the torque on wheel nuts, while the wheels are on the ground is good practice. I guarantee that you would not be able to tell if the nuts where not done up tight, once the wheels are back on the ground, let alone whether you have a torque wrench to set them to. I'd also like to bet that at least 80% of all drivers wouldn't even know how to use a torque wrench correctly. Why use a torque wrench - because if you gave a tyre iron to three different people and asked them to tighten up the wheels you would get three different results. What does "observing" someone tightening the wheels mean if you do not know what you are looking at or what they are doing? To expect a novice to know is a nonsense! Staggering really, that a court can question somebody's negligence but not their ineptitude - that in itself shows a lack of understanding 🤣

[@AUaudits]

This happened to me when had tyres changed, at a Kwick Fit garage. Lucky I noticed steering not right & pulled onto hard shoulder.

[@freespirit1411]

I live in Australia. Last year, I had my caravan serviced, part of which involves taking off the wheels & checking the bearings etc. I then went on a 3500km trip north. I drove around Sydney via a very busy motorway through a very long tunnel & about 50km north of there I was alerted by a truck drive & someone in a ute to pull over. They told me I had lost a wheel. I'm thinking, just a spare off the back of the caravan. But no! It was one on the nearside. Fortunately I had a dual axle caravan so little damage was done. I managed to get the wheel back via a tow truck driver who had been listening on his UHF radio to the truck driver who stopped me. Went to pick up the wheel & brought it to me. It had severe damage & think it was the fault of the caravan service people, who told me they were very short staffed when they did the service. I was very lucky that I was not killed nor anyone else travelling on the motorway at that time & place!

[@TheGaffer69]

This is why a lot of garages ask you to sign a disclaimer stating "YOU" will check them after about 90 miles or return to the garage for them to check the bolts!

[@Kibernautas]

Another problem, some garages do not let people in to a workshop area to observe how job is done.

[@derekheeps1244]

then go elsewhere .

[@Dekedence]

I don't see a problem in that. It's not a zoo, the mechanics should be able to do their job without having customers gorping at them.

[@leschase1824]

I have been subscribed for a good while now, and a fantastic channel. I had 2 new tyres fitted at a tyre garage, and all the nuts were tightened by an electric impact gun only. Idrove about 2 or 3 miles and parked up where it was safe to do so, and recheck the nuts by hand, just incase the nuts were not tight enough, and I was told to final check by hand incase the gun had a fault. The gun was a top of the range gun, but even these can have faults at some stage.

[@mmatthews5707]

I had something very similar happen to me. The difference was that they had changed the tyres (so it’s not just a risk in this video’s more unusual circumstances). Fortunately for me the nuts were so loose that I heard the clunk as the wheel slipped off the hub as I turned out of the garage and stopped immediately. I dread to think of what could have happened otherwise. I’m ashamed to admit that I quickly fell out of the habit of checking any work done at garages so thank you for this reminder!