Need to cut a Trepan or Face groove? Check this one out.

If you have to cut a face groove or trepan something, watch this video. I've done thousands of these grooves on a lathe and really understand what's going on. I'll cover tool geometry, different types of grooves, and the in's and out's of getting the job done. Take a look.

[@moderatemixed8410]

You have quickly become my favourite KZbin channel. Your videos are "to the point", accurate, interesting, informative and very professional. As a newbie, exactly what I am looking for. Thank you for taking the time. Cheers.

[@joepie221]

I appreciate you tuning in.

[@razorworks9942]

Joe....YOU-DA-MAN!!! You could have called me out, but you did it man! Excellent video buddy. Great information and the demo was perfect!! It's guy's like you that help guy's like me trying to learn the proper way to do things without crashing the machine or worse getting hurt trying to learn on their own. Your a very good instructor. Thank you Sir!!! Razor...Out!

[@joepie221]

Thanks Razor. I appreciate the coment.

[@tracylemme1375]

Why is it that I agree with your techniques so often? Is it because we both have multiple decades of paying attention to what we are doing ? You on the other hand also have the ability to convey the learned abilities to the general public. I hope that you know how valuable you are to the trade.

[@joepie221]

Thank you very much.

[@larryphelan1644]

Came across that idea for a bed board in a book written in the 1930,s made one and added cradles to suit my chucks [6" and 8" ],no more damaged lathe beds. Should be the first thing you make. Never tried cutting groves like that yet,but will soon ,still learning! Aint we all? Love your style.

[@melgaw4360]

Thanks for your videos Joe! Before I became a machinist I was a hydraulic journeyman and a cardinal rule on o ring grooves is to leave the sharpest OD corner you can without leaving any burrs. The reason for this is any chamfer will allow the o ring to push under the chamfer under pressure and that creates a condition called nibbling which will deteriorate the diameter of the o ring and eventually ruin the o ring. It is always hard to convince a good machinist to not touch that corner to deburr it, but it is important not to. Just stone the burrs!

[@joepie221]

I understand the comment, but have also spent considerable years doing valves and o'rings. If the area geometry of the groove and area of the cross section of the o'ring are ever the same, something is wrong. It is my understanding the best compression still leaves a small area on each corner untouched. Just for the reason you point out. Another thought is that breaking the outer edges also reduces the cut potential on the o'ring during installation.

[@tim9lives]

Thanks again Joe for another great instructional video which I’ll save in my library for future reference. You give such clear instructions which makes your videos some of my absolute favorites.

[@johnjacquie]

Excellent information on face grooving. Your technique for chuck removal is brilliant, one of the most inspired tips I've seen yet. Well deserved thumbs up.

[@joepie221]

Thanks John.

[@lestermelano8571]

Joe Pieczynski

[@TABE-O]

Champion. Thanks Joe. Really appreciate you making these and sharing your know Lexus doing experience. Awesome.

[@johnv341]

Simple height gauge, chuck cradle, trepanning made easy. Your videos are gems!

[@joepie221]

Straight off the shop floor. Thanks for watching.

[@randallurlik3423]

Thanks, I really enjoy your videos - not only the project at hand, but all of ypur general shop discipline's. I appreciate your detailed reasoning behind all of your actions.

[@jimmilne19]

That's the first educational video on trepanning. Super. Very useful and valued here.

[@joepie221]

Thanks Jim. I like these grooves.

[@thomaslang7634]

You have some of the best videos on you tube. Keep it up. Straight to the point without all of the fluff.

[@napalmv8356]

Many thanks for sharing your knowledge wit us Joe! You have a great teaching talent !

[@Larry1942Will]

Your explanations are always straight forward and easy to understand. Not a lot of BS talking. Pretty good video also. Great craftsmanship. I also like Clickspring's videos. Retired and always wanted to work in metal, just have a lathe and mill.

[@charles1379]

Looking at this vid for a second time, very informative, so full of little gems to use . thank you

[@jacquespoirier9071]

35 years ago, I've learned to machine by myself, It would be so practical to me to have videos like this one, to me it is one of the best use of the internet

[@rizzyrizz1984]

I learn so much from your videos, don't stop!!

[@r.h.b.4980]

Joe love the patience and professionalism you show in your work I'll be watching for more great tips

[@joepie221]

Thank you

[@larryphelan1644]

Hi Joe,, After watching your video,I said "Hell,I just have to try this out",so I ground up an offcut of HSS [no surface grinder in my shop! ],set it up by eye,crossed my fingers,and let rip. Result----sweet music from the cut and a perfect groove,just like that !. My mistake before was not leaving enough side clearance. Now the result is Mamma Mia. Great stuff,keep them coming,straight to the point,no messing around.

[@joepie221]

Awesome. I hope that earned me a subscription.

[@arichardson46]

Well explained and well done.👍👍👍.

[@joepie221]

Thanks Alan.

[@ShevillMathers]

Joe, many thanks for sharing your neat ideas, tips and tricks ☺ From Down Under.

[@papahajek5383]

We used pre made trepan tools to rough size OD's on pump impellers we cast. The early ones were HSS triangular stock held in a curved holder that worked on a set diameter range. The good part was no bottom = no chatter. The bad part was interrupted cut on impeller vanes. CNC led us to multiple OD passes or a program dwell so the operator could remove the ring to avoid potential problems. Robotics led to preparatory machining operations. They're still working on that because the bean counters hate multiple operations as well as dwell time.

[@jerrywells4380]

Another winner Joe. Thanks for your willingness to share, Glendale AZ

[@joepie221]

Thanks Jerry.

[@michor10]

I'm just learning to use a lathe and these videos have been really helpful. Especially the detailed technical explanations. Thanks, Joe!!

[@joepie221]

Knowing why is just as good as knowing how. Thanks for watching.

[@JacobSkriver]

Liked your comment about never leaving the key in the chuck. I was trained that way and I cringe whenever I see people not doing this even though I haven't worked a lathe myself for the past 25 years

[@1959spannerman]

like these videos,learning loads as haven't used a lathe properly for over 30 years

[@sparrafien]

Once again, excelent informative video, dont know how youtube knew i had to cut a trepan on a John Deere kingpin, i definitely learned alot in this video, thank you sir!

[@Hexhead4]

This great stuff Joe, I've learned more from you than many others I've watched, keep them coming.

[@joepie221]

Thank you.

[@aperioguitar]

Very helpful info. Thanks for your fine work!

[@georgelewisray]

Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge/experience.

[@michaeljohnson-li5nn]

Very interesting comment you made regarding to always remove the chuck key. During my apprenticeship I attended the Rolls-Royce training academy over in Derby. The lecturer drilled into us to ALWAYS remove the key from the chuck, and not to leave it in there, even if only for a minute or two. We would get a real telling off if he walked by the lathe and the key was left unattended in the chuck. It seemed unfair at the time but it as certainly good (safe) advice. Thanks for taking the time to make and upload these informative and interesting videos.

[@mrfrog3350]

Thanks for posting Joe!

[@BIGDADDY012341]

I just wanna say thank you for this video !! I'm just getting back into machining after an approx 30 yr hiatus as you know A LOT has changed !! That said I've been blowin off the dust so to speak watching your videos and they have bveen a HUGE help !! I needed to make a fixture. And needed a larger trepan groove. For the life of me I could'nt remember how to do it your video gave me the push I needed . Looking forward to watching the rest of your videos ! THAQNKS again !!

[@joepie221]

Good luck getting back up to speed. thanks for watching.

[@davidmeyer3318]

Great explanation Joe. I do quite a few o ring grooves, and found this very helpful!

[@timothychapman2455]

Very informative for some one like myself who is just starting out. The explanation to the where's why's has helped understand the reasons for the all the angles on cutting tools Many thanks Tim Castlemaine, Victoria Australia

[@joepie221]

Just enough will serve you well. Too sharp is a no-no.

[@TheStuartYork]

Another ace tutorial. I always use a wooden board to protect the ways on my machine, your "nest," is a step forward, it really takes the grunt out of chuck changes. I'm copying that one fella!!

[@joepie221]

You'll love it. It was the first thing I made every time I changed a job.

[@pierresgarage2687]

Hi Joe, Great demo again, just like you do I very often favor HSS tooling as the best ways to get something done... The secret are the grind and to respect the capacity of the machine, meaning judging the right size of the tool in order to avoid bugging or chatter... Cheers, Pierre

[@joepie221]

I have fancy insert tooling for this, but I have many hours with the HSS tools so thats what I posted. Rigidity is key on this operation. Gotta keep the tool cutting too.

[@pauljones3866]

Excellent...another instructive video with lots of practical information. The higher machinability of stainless 303 compared to 316 is great choice for this type of O-ring work. Thank you!

[@joepie221]

I may have slowed the RPM just a little for a 316, or 304, but the tool would have delivered the same result. Just keep it cutting. As soon as you hesitate, you have an instant problem.

[@martingreen530]

My way for years of grooves and trepanning.... "Hit IT AND GET OUT".......Nice one chap

[@joepie221]

"No Dwell, No Yell"

[@tom7601]

Another great and informative video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@joepie221]

This was done by request. Thanks for watching.

[@stanwooddave9758]

Thank you for sharing Joe. Very informative.

[@joepie221]

Uncommon feature, but good tips here. Thanks for the comment.

[@davidjames1007]

Thanks for sharing, something to try out while we are stuck at home

[@MrJugsstein]

Nice one, Thanks for the demo on the tool grind and the info on the SS cut.

[@joepie221]

Patience and clearance. Keep pressure on these tools and don't dwell at the bottom.

[@martingreen530]

Here in UK most of us call trepanning the operation of going all the way through where your quote for no dwell no yell is perfect Done hundreds of face grooves dovetail grooves and trepanning over far too many years on lathes and vertical borers. Trepanning on a vertical borers has the upper hand as gravity helps to let the part fall through, but the swarf tends to want to into the groove causing It’s own problems. Good video fella,

[@matthegedus6513]

I love the safety focus of your videos. I don't see that a whole lot on KZbin.

[@joepie221]

I am a safety fanatic. it only takes a minute to prevent an injury that could last forever.

[@user-tp7ri9jq5s]

Great instructions on tool grinding and techniques. I learned a good deal from watching your videos!!! Thanks

[@markfulmer8501]

nice video Joe - like the idea of making marks on the chuck to go on the spindle the same each time." Hit it and get out , " great advice for the plunge cut

[@CalvinEdmonson]

Good stuff as usual. If anyone out there ends up with chatter in the bottom of your groove it can be removed by manually turning the chuck. Creep in close to your depth and turn the chuck at least one revolution by hand. Then repeat a couple 10ths at a time until gone. It works.

[@thatoldbob7956]

I did like that you mentioned the necessary room for the compressed O ring that should be tabled for every diameter of the ring material, thanks good presentation Bob

[@joepie221]

Thanks Bob. Pinching an O'ring is, a bad thing.

[@ChrisB257]

Another super video Joe, thanks.

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching Chris.

[@dragonballzohai]

Nice work Joe going to try this one out thanks.

[@neopolythe]

Great videos. Really enjoy them.

[@matthewblackwood4704]

Iscar makes some great specialized inserted grooving tools for face grooves that work amazing if you have to do these often.

[@milespostlethwaite1154]

Excellent! Really informative. Thanks Joe.

[@felgate11]

Re Dovetail grooves on a face or o/d or I/d!. I worked in the Oil Tool Industry for 18+ years & we always used 3 separate grooving tools - the 1st, a straight, narrow tool then a narrower left & a right hand tool to form the inner & outer Dovetail angles .That way there is room inside the groove to work in & easy to retract the tools. The Dovetail tools also had the correct pre-ground radii for the bottom & also the mouth/front rad's.

[@Zoandar]

Very nice! I only recently learned about trepanning on the lathe, and have not tried it yet. Your tips will come in handy! Thank you!

[@joepie221]

Good luck. Thanks for watching.

[@787roofdog]

Solid Gold, been struggling with this for years, seriously. Thanks

[@joepie221]

Keep the tool extension to a minimum and don't be afraid to push it. Good luck.

[@keldsor]

Hi Joe ! Again, very instructive and nice video - THX FOR SHARING !

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching.

[@marygohman3528]

All of your videos I have watched are excellent. I like your attention to details. I will be watching more.

[@joepie221]

Thanks. I try to be thorough.

[@TAWPTool]

Great video and a not-so-normal topic. Thank you!

[@joepie221]

Thanks. I did it by request. I have lots of experience doing these.

[@tonywaller680]

Hi joe. Excellent video and commentary.thanks so much for your time,ya still the best,regards TW Canada’s west coast

[@joepie221]

Thanks TW👍

[@outsidescrewball]

Enjoyed.....thanks for the discussion/instruction/demonstration

[@joepie221]

Thanks Chuck.

[@georgetouponse2408]

ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR VIDS, you are sharpe, I joined your patreon site bc you are right there with your tips and how to's, thank you, very informative

[@joepie221]

Awesome, thank you very much! if you ever have a question, feel free to ask. Thanks for your support.

[@workwillfreeyou]

Very nice machine! Thanks.

[@thegripworks2419]

I may have said this before, but your videos are probably the best machining tutorials available on KZbin. Much appreciated.

[@joepie221]

Glad you like them! Thank you.

[@chrisaumaugher3732]

I agree; old retired guy here. Looking back, I loved working with guys like Joe, that would share knowledge. I learned a lot talking to the guys making my parts; in the long run, machine shops would give me better bids, and I would design better parts. The company (purchasing) never liked us talking to the vendors, and the other engineers looked down on the practice. Those attributes never made any sense to me.

[@jewelrymakingtutorialsbyha1252]

Brilliant video, brilliant explanation!

[@tnt421]

The custom wood block for installing the chuck is fantastic! Beats the heck out of fighting 2×4s either too long or too short.

[@joepie221]

It only takes a few minutes to make and you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago.

[@WS6xxStarscreamxx]

Thank you Joe. I’m watching this during my break. This was driving me nuts lol

[@joepie221]

Glad to help

[@KimbrellBrad]

Thanks for showing that tool geometry Joe. Great lesson!

[@joepie221]

Glad you liked it!

[@krazziee2000]

very good info, the redwood chuck caddy is very cool. I really like that, thanks for the video.

[@joepie221]

That chuck block is awesome. Make sure you have just a small offset below center so the chuck lifts up off it when you engage your cams or threads. That way it come out.

[@PisTTasha]

Wow, Thanks sir , very informative vid , thanks again Joe for your help ,I was grinding the tool the wrong way now I know what i was doing wrong , You are my hero :) God bless you .

[@joepie221]

Glad to help. It was a good topic. Best of luck in your effort.

[@chucktipton9596]

I ground a tool to cut a groove to mount the emblem you made for me exactly the way you just demonstrated to us, I just didn't know it was called a trepanning tool. It worked very well I might add, Thanks.

[@joepie221]

Hey Chuck. Post a walk around video of that project. Short 2 minute 'look see'. Post deep details as a follow up. We'd all love to see it. Good to hear from you.

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

Great video, great presentation. Thanks.

[@joepie221]

Thanks

[@RemyMartinVSOP]

Great video. I learned something new, I had no idea you should dress the ground tools before you use them for burrs. It explains why I've experienced chatter especially in grooves and reliefs. Thanks for sharing! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@dustinmasters9239]

Love that chuck cradle! Great idea!

[@joepie221]

Its a real back saver. Easy to make too.

[@johnwahalla5049]

Great video Joe, you're a great machinst, awesome!!

[@joepie221]

Thank you very much.

[@lachlansmith623]

Another great video Joe - I was wondering how to do this and thought Joe will have a video explaining it!

[@joepie221]

Glad to help.

[@grahamhoad4333]

Hay thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@sp1nrx]

Joe, I come from the screw machine part of the trade, have since had CNC lathes for years and one thing I have kept doing is the "5 revolutions of dwell" at the bottom of formed cuts. It's a type of a spring cut like made in threading. Stainless steel isn't that bad for this idea BUT anything nickel or titanium-based or even some copper-based alloys would be a big NO...NOOOO.....*NO* ! The idea of getting out of the cut ASAP is always good advice. I have seen guys lay the tool at the bottom for 5 for 10 seconds and they destroy the tool very quickly. Also, in treppaning, if there is chattering and the set-up is solid there might be a slight adjustment needed in tool height. I have had tools perfectly on center chatter but a slight adustment to raise the tool clears up the problem. It's like the tool needs a pre-load to perform properly. These tools do not like being under center.

[@joepie221]

Very true. Did a bunch of years in a screw machine shop myself. The era of hand filed cams for the old B&S machines. It was a real art, and pleasure to watch those guys work.

[@bendavanza]

great demo and explanation!

[@ryanb1874]

Sweet, very good stuff.

[@mosfet500]

Hi Joe, Thanks for another great video, just caught this one! When I have those tricky dovetail cuts to make I use two tools that are mirrors of each other. This way I can have a thicker tool. Just my way of doing it. Rob

[@danielrottino6230]

Thank you I enjoyed your video.

[@bazmon]

Another informative and interesting video... Thanks Joe... :)

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching Barry.

[@John91406]

Nice Video as usual. Thanks Joe.

[@joepie221]

Thank you.

[@glennfelpel9785]

good way to handle the chuck, thank you for the idea.

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching.

[@RobbyNowell]

I'm definitely going to borrow that idea!

[@johndonlan5956]

I especially like the part where you explain how important it is to have clearance for the groove ID on your cutting bit. That's a factor I'd always run into when I would purchase a preformed trepanning carbide insert. That outside clearance angle on the tool will rub on the ID of the trepan every time unless it's sufficiently ground away.

[@mpetersen6]

I have to make up face grooving tools quite often at work for o-ring applications. If you have a surface grinder available it makes doing this so much easier. The face of the tool can be ground dead square. It also makes it much nicer to 1) grind the tool to width, 2) grind your side clearance both inside and outside radius. For the outer radius I grind a primary cvlearance of 7° or so with a secondary clearance angle around 20°. with tool dead square you can square it to the work with a square. Feed with the compound set parallel to the ways. Always more than one way to skin the cat.

[@joepie221]

I agree with all your details, but wonder why you would feed with the compound? I am sure it would work, but have never seen a compound used for a feature inline with the spindle.

[@dpbeardslee]

Joe, your videos are like potato chips - can't watch just one. Watch a little, work a little, repeat. Dunno what I'd do without you. Thumbs up!

[@tomvitagliano250]

Very informative. Love your delivery.... kudos !

[@joepie221]

Thank you.

[@johngunn7087]

Joe Pie, great content, as usual. Just looking at that redwood chuck nest makes my lower back SMILE !!

[@joepie221]

Its made my back smile for years. Extremely good idea for larger chucks or the heavier screw on types. Thanks for watching.

[@zumbazumba1]

Joe do you know how can i make a dividing ring with superior accuracy on the lathe ?You know the ring that you make when you want to make a center mark for holes on the flange.First you make small dent with a thread cutting knife(metric 60° worked best for me) or double sided 45° and then divide the circle you scribed with a calipers and you get same spaced holes.Its like scribing a line with divider but you do it with knife on a lathe instead. I could never hit exact size i want.For example i want dividing circle of 200mm usualy i get 199.5 or something like that.Thicknes or better say pointiness of the tip makes a big difference,part that im struggeling with is how do i accuratly index and zero the tip of knife on the OD ir the ID of the object i am working with? Like how do you set up where your face groove will be accuratly.

[@twitchyourwhiskers]

Nice job, Joe, I like your style, I like your Channel

[@11LowDown11]

Awesome video Joe, like your work and your teachings. Like to see your lathe set up in a future video, it's important to have certain tools close by (tool holders, collets, hand tools, maybe even a dedicated chuck rack) for diff op's and you sir I would consider I life long machinist so we all would recognize/appreciate your values on this subject.

[@joepie221]

My machine is setup pretty sweet. A walk around has been requested before. Not a bad idea. Thanks for your comment. I'll try not to lead anyone a stray.

[@barrystevens2780]

I own a lathe that a gunsmith originally used. I have many tools machined as the trepan tool you just showed. I kept his tools as is without out using them. I suspected that they were used on the OD of shafts for O ring grooves. Somehow I always thought of tree pan grooves cut on a vertical mill with a tool similar to a hole saw. Thanks

[@ianjoubert7505]

Thank you Joe!

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching.

[@jameslagaly]

Internal tool makes some face grooving inserted tools that are awesome both for straight, treepan, and dovetail face grooves

[@joepie221]

Kennametal is my source for over the counter stuff.

[@ShadonHKW]

Enjoyed my time in the shop with you, finally getting caught up on some of your older ones. But I'll just comment here so as not to pollute your in box :) ATB, Stan Z

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching Stan.

[@OldIronShops]

excellent demo joe

[@joepie221]

Thanks Chris.

[@jamesdavis8021]

Very good video. I always learn something useful. I used a loupe to set the stream on industrial inkjet printers. I found it be a pain in the butt to hold on to the print head,the loupe,and adjust the stream to go into the right place on the gutter. I found that Baush & Lomb makes a magnifier that clips on the frame of your eyeglasses with 20mm. glass lenses.They swing out of the way when you don’t need them.They are so light,you forget they are there.Mine is a dual lens. I think one is 3X,the other is 5X and,combined,10X.Very inexpensive.Check it out and see if it’s right for you.

[@alexjamieson3822]

Regarding O-ring groove dimensions, the James Walker catalogue has an excellent guide for all different types of grooves for practically every O-ring cross section available. I’m not affiliated with them but I use a lot of O-rings in my trade and find their information very comprehensive and concise.