Needs an ENGINE? BMW N20 Timing Chain Failure | Can We SAVE It?

[@chaoslordferrok]

I was a bmw master tech for 5 years. Recently switched to land rover. The funny thing about the bmw’s is we saw alot more failures in older peoples cars that would not drive them hard. Meanwhile a co worker had the same engine and beat the crap out of it for 120k miles and it still did not need a timing chain.

[@nature10879]

I hear some bmw owners confess that bmw need to be driven hard and most often. If one doen't, they are prone to failure in certain ways.

[@azznee6413]

Im guessing it's because older people tend to drive with comfort or eco pro modes which means more gear changes. Sport mode usually uses all of engine rpms which means less gear changes. Thats my guess.

[@mechwatchdog]

Probably because people who drive cars hard are enthusiasts who change the oil more frequently than people who just drive a car for status and wait for the computer to tell them to change the oil @ 15k.

[@lizzybabich8166]

@@mechwatchdog the recommended service interval for oil is 12k miles in my f22 which is crazy I do every 5k

[@JohnEvans-ct6mz]

I’ve been a VW/Audi tech for 10 years, and the older Audi EA888 engines failed for the same reasons. Really early ones had a flawed piston ring and timing chain tensioner design, but the first gen Tiguan with that engine had way more issues than the Audis with the same engine. Tiguan owners do less and or cheaper maintenance and despite the fuel door saying “premium unleaded fuel only” they fill them with 87.

[@pgtips6143]

That made for a fantastic tutorial video, well done for having the balls to give it a go. Perhaps the customer should send a link to your video to the BMW Dealer, just to show them not only how wrong they were to advise the customer he needed a new engine, but also expose them for the shit job they did with regard reassembling or rather not his engine, they should be ashamed of themselves. Perfect they should reimburse the customer for not only the missing parts they failed to put back, but also some labour costs as well, if not “Name and Shame them”🤔. I bet your customer is over the moon with regards to your efforts and his wallet feels a whole lot better. 👍 Looking forward to the next video. 🍻😎

[@LostCauseRanch]

I’m happy it all turned out well in the end. Unfortunate how it started but it is what it is I guess. Still fun to get it all figured out and sorted. Really enjoy the process of diagnosing these, especially when it goes the right way.

[@pgtips6143]

@@LostCauseRanch 👍🤩

[@OMGWTFLOLSMH]

Except we don't know the longevity of this repair. The engine could still implode due to the worn cam bearings and related issues. Might last a few months, might last a few years, might never fail. Who knows?

[@opticaldilusion6381]

Rovers or not always love the content ! Thanks for showing the bmw fix !

[@LostCauseRanch]

Appreciate that. The Rovers will be back front and center shortly. Goes in waves around here.

[@mascho22]

Finally a video that shows (sort of) how to get the diff/oil pan off w/o having to drop the subframe! I just recently replaced my broken upper guides and TC tensioner only and left everything else alone for now. So far, it runs fine.

[@aaroncarpenter2999]

These little N20s are actually kinda fun to work on. Since the engine is so small and longitudinally placed, it leaves some decent space to work. I grabbed a cheap '13 X3 that was minutes away from self destruction (misfires and rough running simply due to slack in the chain from broken guides!). I found another recently that 'died' and 'needs a timing chain' according to the owner's mechanic, but that is a little more scary... gotta assume it WILL need an engine unless it just jumped like yours! Great vid!

[@joelpearson8623]

Just got a 13 x3 With less than 76k for $3k - it’s mint! Bought all the tools and all the replacement parts. Today I got a quick jack to make my life easier. Videos like these will make me feel like a pro. I did a ’15 Audi 2.0t timing chain service and used these guys kit almost two years ago and I’m still driving the Audi today 👍

[@markbielawski]

Well, if that machine had to draw first blood, at least you won in the end! Great job!!

[@LostCauseRanch]

I’ll donate a little blood for that outcome any day of the week!

[@tommielee8]

Thank you on the quality video. It sure is a blessing to have someone as knowledgeable take the time and share their expertise. These clear and concise episodes make life in the sticks so much more worth living. Hats off me amigo.

[@scottgibson807]

2013 F30 w N26 and 105k miles. LiquiMoly every 5k miles and enjoy some 'fun time' in sport mode from time to time. Fingers crossed - no issues yet.

[@LostCauseRanch]

That’s the correct recipe to prolong most of the stuff having timing chain issues.

[@johnboy2776]

Worst thing to do is replace the timing chain , the oil pump and gear that wear out. Only to have the engine lock up on you because indeed the cam caps are scored along with the crank bearings and journals . Thats why I’d recommend the engine also. Seen this happen a few times at the dealership.

[@bradbeck2601]

That cam cap 😂. Those guys would crap themselves if they saw the engines ive put back together and ran for another 100,000 miles😅. Low spots are absolutely fine, you just have to make sure to file down any high spots, burrs or protrusions.

[@LostCauseRanch]

Yes, it is sometimes unrealistic to expect something with north of 100k miles along with calling for 15k mile oil changes to not have had some junk go through it. It looks similar to a lot of stuff that I’ve had apart. Is it 100% percent ideal? No. Is it worth sticking $15,000 dollars to have them put a new engine in a $12,000 car? No. And chances are a used engine would look pretty similar inside.

[@roverdogs_keithwhelchel]

I have to agree with an good independent that you can trust, Still hard to find these days but you can. Personally being screwed by both dealers and a couple independents I prefer to do the work myself. Heck got screwed on just getting a front end alignment after replacing practically everything on the D2. They never tightened the steering stabilizer mount back tight. Found out the hard way at 55 mph and front end jumping and not running going down the highway. Oh and around 200 rovers last weekend at winter romp :-) And some carnages too. but not me this time. Oh and it nice to watch tear downs and rebuild like this anyway.

[@Alixstair]

Awesome vlog with seamless editing - good work👍

[@LostCauseRanch]

Appreciate that! Thanks for following along in all the fun.

[@omarbarragan6752]

@@LostCauseRanch

[@IowaLR4]

Nice work. I have two F54 mini clubmans now, so I have to start learning BMW. Though I hear good things about the B48. One of my F54s is a JCW with the 306hp/331tq variant.... shes spicy.

[@LostCauseRanch]

I haven’t heard anything bad about the b48 yet either. The early turbo Minis were kind of plagued with issues so it’s good you are in the F54. That JCW has to be a riot!

[@petertattoo]

I soon have to do this on 520d year 2010, mean let the workshop do it. But very interesting to see what it is.

[@jimbigelow8701]

Great video thanks! I am currently dealing with a 2013 328i Xdrive N26 with bad timing chains. What would you estimate is a fair price from an independent shop for this work? Thanks Again

[@LostCauseRanch]

Depending on the scope of damage and your area, if no bent valves and the cylinder head doesn’t need to come off I would expect something in the $3000-5000 range for a decent independent.

[@scottcrawford4148]

Same! I'm rebuilding the engine. There were 3 bad exhaust valves, worn out rod bearings, timing chain in the pickup screen.

[@OMGWTFLOLSMH]

Nice work. I've owned 5 BMWs over the decades and I doubt I'll ever own another one. Just way too many problems with their engines and cooling systems.

[@LostCauseRanch]

Recently my gripe is with the amount of plastic engine pieces (not just them doing it). It just seems to create so many unnecessary leaks over time with the many heat cycles put on them. I mean it was good for us when we had the service shop going to have all the oil leaks on BMW’s but it does really suck. I’m still a fan of the E46/E39 era though.

[@Toxinhq]

What were some of the symptoms of the timing chain failing? Mine is getting repaired right now and I was get misfires and the acceleration was poor and gas mileage was getting bad. Also between 1500-2000 rpm it would keep trying to shift.

[@VictorCataldo-x8t]

Did you remove the motor mounts when you lifted the engine? Did you find that you could have lifted the engine and gotten enough clearance to remove oil pan without removing the diff?

[@derelict_wanderer]

A Stealership scheming against a customer? Say it ain't so! Everything in the first few minutes of this video is why I work on my own stuff now. All wheel drive and dropping an oil pan? Oh crap! I'm getting flashbacks of the rear main seal replacement in our AMC Eagle. Remove halfshafts, remove axle, disassemble steering stuff so the front suspension can do the "Herbie is sad, Love bug squat", support engine from above, Lower K member. Then, remove pan to replace 2 piece seal. What a pain! Like you, I punched something (The torque flight transmission bellhousing) and gave a blood sacrifice to the car gods. Really messed up 3 knuckles that day. Took a week off of the job to heal. Given how modern cars sound, I don't feel as bad with the way the 4.0 in the YJ clatters at idle.

[@LostCauseRanch]

Shocking I know haha. It is nice to work on your own stuff, it usually just leaves one person to blame then. I’ve never been around them in-depth but that AMC Eagle sounds like an interesting piece as well. It’s crazy how some stuff is designed, not saying there is a better way but I find it all interesting. The new direct injection stuff is crazy loud, pretty close to diesel’s in noise. This one sounds better in person, camera mic does amplify it a bit.

[@scottcrawford4148]

Skeezy!

[@Lazairgeorge]

Ugg! Sad to report that our 2013 BMW 328i xdrive N26 just did this after pulling away from a stop sign. After researching the problem, we discovered the year of our car is within a range where we should have changed the chain loooong ago. We have just over 190k mikes on the car. So, what could we expect to pay for someone to do the compression test?

[@drewwaxler8270]

Forgive me for my ignorance you said you set the engine to tdc before the leak down test, did you use the special tool to do that first then removed the cams? Also once you set tdc and removed the cams can you test all the cylinders at that point. Would love to hear back as I am tearing an n20 apart now, just waiting for the special tools.

[@davidfrank2824]

Where is some good advice for anyone who owns a vehicle. Whenever you take your wheel off take some sandpaper and hit the back of the rim and the wheel hub. Now I use the original anti-seize which is the gray one. Can you put someone on the back of your RAM and some on the hug face. You will never have a stuck wheel again. I have a pickup truck that does not get driven much at all. Probably less than 50 mi a year. One day I needed to do a brake job. From almost 10 years since the last time I had taken off any of the wheels. it was somehow it welded to one another. I had every big hammer I owned and added my block of wood and it would not come off. In my spare time I work on mostly Harley-Davidson. With that I have different jacks. The main one I use flattened down for probably 3 in open talk to 36 or 40 in. I brought that out to put the base against the frame and the other side against the tire. I was cranking on it cranking on it and finally it sounded like an explosion. All of my neighbors ran to my house calling 911 thinking the worst that happened to me. Where I live the whole neighborhood is one big family and we look out for one another. The other three weren't much of an issue getting those off but I still did the same treatment. 12 years later when I pulled the front wheels off again no problem whatsoever. When that happened to me every time I worked on one of my own cars poor friends and neighbors I always put anti-seize on the back of the wheels and on the wheel hub. I hope this helps somebody. There's nothing worse than being on the side of the road with just a simple flat tire. It makes it worse especially using a car jack to get that tire off. You should also do this to the axles that are on motorcycles. If you are pulling your wheels the axle has to come out. There is factory anti-seize on the axles but it's all broken down. I throw mine in the parts washer and then recoat them and put them back in. Knock on wood I had never had a problem when I worked on someone else's bite that I fixed in the past. Everything comes off easy. Also you can always tell if I ever change spark plugs on your lawn mowers cars boats motorcycles. Every one of my spark plugs that I do has a thin coat of anti-seize and a little gel into the boot on the spark. I know this was lengthy but I like to help people if I can. A lot of people are not aware of this until the wheel needs to come off and just pray to god it's in a tire shop or at your house.

[@LostCauseRanch]

Yes you are spot on with that. That low mileage was a perfect scenario for that problem. If the wheels don’t come off semi regularly or have anti seize it can be a real headache. We have run across that many times over the years being in the salt belt. We’ve used porta powers to get them off, a little bit of heat on the center can help as well (though having a temp gun handy making sure you aren’t getting hot enough to compromise the aluminum is also key for that). But most of the time a good dead low with some healthy swings on the back side while spinning it usually does the trick. The big key is working your pressure evenly around the wheel to keep it from binding against itself. Every spark plug I do gets the copper anti seize so I am completely with you on that as well. Good advice!

[@820performancecomptonbro4]

Hey what up bro I have a 2015 BMW n20 engine crank no start check timing with timing tool ok have good spark fuel but I have low compression 90psi cylinder 2 100psi

[@AnthonysResurrectionGarage]

Is there a specific position to place the cams before removing to avoid warping or damaging them? Or is it ok to just remove the caps?

[@scottcrawford4148]

Very skeezy to leave camcap off and soak up labor for reassembling

[@LostCauseRanch]

Yeah, I didn't really like that either. Just leave the thing apart if you are going to do that.

[@graemelliott3942]

That’s a whole lot of specialty tools needed. I’ll say it for you “Stealerships”

[@LostCauseRanch]

It is a fair amount, the only nice thing is it really takes the guess work out of getting it all lined up. There are certain vehicles we’ve run across over the years that have made timing them correctly a little more “guesswork” or up to you getting everything set perfect. So while it makes it less feasible for a one off repair these were actually somewhat pleasant to do when we had the repair shop. Plus being able to help people out in a more economical repair was always fun.

[@baims8367]

What about updating the cam gear bolts ?

[@konstantinkhodchenko8369]

Question please, if only the oil pump failed, do you still have to do the job underneath, like axels and subframe? Or everything can be done from top?

[@414autosports6]

Do cams NEED to be removed on this engine to perform a leak down test?

[@LostCauseRanch]

No, you just have to roll engine so each cylinder is at top dead center when you test them. The cams were coming off either way on this engine so it was just easier for me to take them off then test it.

[@lindamader2968]

may i ask which torque wrench model you are using. It looks like Quinn 3/4 torque wrench with angle

[@itsromeo2958]

So was it okay to torque it to 56 degrees instead of 55?

[@JohnEvans-ct6mz]

These N20s don’t seem all that bad, but I am very glad my 5 series has the B48.😂

[@TK-gd9td]

Is there any data on total incidence rate for these timing chain explodes? Out of total manufactured, how many total have failed due to these? What would be the percentage? 1%? 50%?

[@tommielee8]

It's the guides that fail. The chain, as all chains, will stretch eventually to the point where the tensioner no longer plays a roll. There was a recall, and the chain guide was redesigned but still made of plastic.

[@davidfrank2824]

Before you put the valve cover on you took a tube which appeared I had something red in it. You were putting it on different spots under the valve cover. Can you tell me what that was and why did you do that? I do enjoy your channel.

[@LostCauseRanch]

That was some assembly lube for engines(Meyle brand on that tube). It’s a tacky lube that helps initial startup until oil gets to where it needs to be on a clean engine. So I just like to anytime we pull stuff apart, give it some help until the oil gets fed back up into the cylinder head.

[@patrickquinn3574]

Anyone tell ya lately now much you look like Don as you age Bud???? Lol Nice work Joe

[@LostCauseRanch]

I’ll take it. Hopefully I look that good when I get older haha.

[@nature10879]

15k oil change is a terrible idea.The mindset behind the whole thing was for marketing and fkin up the used car buyer in the end. Basically, manufactures want to spend less on maintenance during the manufacturer warranty and also at the same time have the new car owner only bring it in 2 to 3 times before the warranty expires(you're talking about 3 oil changes for 45k miles!!!!!). When the car is new,its HIGHLY unlikely that this would happen and they know this. After that,they could care less for 2nd+ hand owners or whoever buys it after the warranty expires (These failures will make the dealers money anyway from the fixing and replacement of parts hahaha). I see a lot of idiots still doing this after the warranty expires claiming that is what the manufacture recommends😂😂. Oil is cheap at Walmart, i'd do 4k miles using high quality motor oil as soon as I buy literally ANY car.

[@ct9040]

Bmw is supposed to pay for timing chain repair ? Can anyone share info on this

[@LostCauseRanch]

If I recall correctly BMW extended the warranty on the timing chains to 8 years/100k miles. 100% coverage at 7 years/70k mikes and pro rated after that. So most everything has aged out at this point.

[@greenman7612]

We are past the date when BMW will take any responsibility for their bad design. I have a 528xi with 65,000 miles. At some point, the car will be trash.

[@Wilsonwillfixit]

Where do I find all the torque specs

[@ThatCivilGuy]

What hundred do you have coming up? I’m doing my first 100 in 5 years and I wish I was only trying to drop 10 lbs!

[@LostCauseRanch]

I’ll be doing the Mines of Spain 100 in October. I did the 100 miler there in 2019, then the 100k in 2020 an 2021. But have paced/volunteered with that one every year, great race in a neat park with some decent elevation for being in the Midwest. Which one are you planning on?

[@ThatCivilGuy]

Great to have those local races that you can be part of year in and year out. I’m doing Mountain Lakes 100m in Central Oregon in September.

[@konstantinkhodchenko8369]

Where are you guys located?

[@genuflext]

what year?

[@LostCauseRanch]

2013. We saw the most failures with 12s and 13s.

[@genuflext]

@@LostCauseRanch should I be concerned with a 2014 428i? the timing chain has about inch of play when she's cold but after a drive she's tight again

[@christopherfripps3171]

How much does this usually cost in a shop

[@tommielee8]

3500 to 5500

[@baims8367]

Just from how cheap and unwilling to back up their vehicles issues that they shouldn’t be having at the price points of these cars/suvs is really a major TURN OFF from continuing to drive and own BMWs!! Look at Toyota buying back 15 + yr old Tacoma’s and at more then book value as well as the 2000 era Tundra frame recall warranty now that’s a car company that Id be comfortable with doing business with !! BMW y’all are cheap bastards !! 🤮. Plastic used everywhere it possibly can is pathetic!

[@greenman7612]

That’s due to US EPA regulations. Keep voting for idiots and the government will continue to tell you what you can buy.

[@AhmedSaid-qx2dj]

Bravo sir 👏🏼👏🏼

[@baims8367]

Def could have used some better differential fluid.. esp in and for a prissy ass BMW!

[@nature10879]

BMW should be ashamed for using plastic guides inside an engine. They should have used aluminum or some other metal. I guess they only care about saving a few dollars here and there and making the used car owners pay for it by making their dealers and themselves money by just replacing the whole engine.

[@olddieselguy1]

You realize auto manufacturers have been using plastic timing chain guides since the earliy 60's. And how do they sell cars if they last forever.

[@nature10879]

@@olddieselguy1 good point

[@Diggity42]

The new guides are supposed to last much longer than those original guides that weren’t made as well. I’m planning to do my chain soon on my N20 X3 with 167k miles.

[@UnKnownn2520]

Intrinsic obsolescence

[@greenman7612]

@@Diggity42- wow, you are lucky to get to 167k miles!

[@Okierover]

Funner-est

[@LostCauseRanch]

Definitely the most funner-est haha. I’ll have to add that one to the vocabulary.