Titanium White Oil Paints | Brand Comparison | Yellowing and Cracking

[@Honeycombones]

Many thanks for taking the time to create and share this, very informative for artists. And now I know I’m not alone in doing many experiments with paint and mediums.

[@zbthunderwood]

A somewhat relevant personal anecdote: Around 25 years ago, I decided I would try to paint in oils. I bought cheap canvas from a fabric store, stretched it over flimsy furring strips from home depot, and painted (terribly) directly on the canvas. I had no idea about gesso, sizing, pigments, etc. I used Bob Ross and grumbacher academy paints, two brands that are generally not highly revered by painters. And you know what? The painting has held up fine. Of course the titanium white that I used contained zinc, just like nearly every other titanium white being produced. Of course the painting won't last forever but, considering that I did exactly what you're not supposed to do, that painting has lasted longer than most would have expected. This video is very useful for showing what brands of white yellow more than others and their varying surface qualities, but I personally wouldn't want to make anyone that's painted in oils and used a white that contained zinc feel like their art is destined to fall apart at any moment. As another commenter said, a trip to the museum should calm most peoples' fears in regards to the lifespan of an oil painting that contains zinc or even rabbit skin glue, which I also use but that's another conversation :)

[@nelsonferreirauk]

zwood1981 25 years is nothing in terms of painting longevity. Fine Arts are meant to last a minimum of a few centuries and ideally many millenniums. Art conservation is a science and we cannot be based on personal experiences as they don’t prove anything. I also painted on cheap cardboard over 20 years ago, it has held fine but I know for a fact that it will not last for much longer unless it’s restored, as the card is slowly rotting. I teach for the restoration arts department of UAL, and if you read my answers on the post below I address the very same questions you’re raising. No paint scientist, restorer or conservator would recommend zinc white nowadays - it’s time to shelve it like we did with cow’s urine or real mummy brown :)

[@zbthunderwood]

@@nelsonferreirauk I absolutely agree that 25 years is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I imagine that I will outlive my terrible first painting. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for science and conservation in art. The only part of your video that I have any issue with is the assertion that zinc could very likely cause damage from 3-15 years after the painting is complete, which could be overly discouraging or heartbreaking to a novice painter who might think that they've wasted their efforts on something that will turn to junk very soon. This is where I think personal experience has some value, since we are aware of many of our paintings or paintings by friends or colleagues that have passed that window. The only time I've heard of a painting by someone I know cracking was due to incorrect application of rsg. The only time I've experienced it was due to low quality acrylic gesso. I learned my lesson on that one. It raises an interesting question in regards to personal experience vs a painting's potential lifespan. Would I rather have a painting that I think looks better and is more satisfying to create that will last 100 years or one that doesn't quite have the same pop or warmth or whatever (alluding to pure titanium's inherent overpowering opacity) that will last 500 years? Honestly, if it were up to me I'd use nothing but cremnitz if it weren't so pricey. Sorry for the long post. I appreciate the discussion.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

zwood1981 indeed, although it’s possible to mimic the transparency of zinc without any of the drawbacks (it’s covered in the video). The tests are very clear, it has to do with paint brittleness and bending the canvas is the main factor. Sometimes, rolling up a canvas is enough for the cracking to occur. Of course that if you paint on panel or if your canvas was never rolled up, then it’ll last for a very long time without cracking.

[@dorrisgonnawreckyou7111]

@@nelsonferreirauk A painting that lasts many milleniums? wow! that is impressive.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

ConfusedOilPainting not that impressive, any Palaeolithic nomadic tribe created paintings that are at least 40.000 years old and more - and still in perfect condition. They didn’t have the means nor the advanced technology and they made it, so we have no excuses!

[@JNDS.Creates]

I’m all about comparisons. Thanks for doing this

[@ZeroneRaven]

"Dont use zinc white, it cracks." Me, a beginner, looking at the tube of zinc white that literally just arrived today: Huh

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Heheheh I know the feeling... we've all been through this.

[@robertchilders8698]

I like zinc white! - if applied in thin layers like glaze's, thick layers can crack...!

[@SnkobArts]

Cesar Cordova has a great video documenting his stress tests of zinc oxide in different mediums and pigment combinations. I think the only combination that held up okay to the stress test was zinc oxide plus lead white (known for creating robust flexible layers) with WN Liquin as the medium; also known to create strong flexible layers. Andrew Tischler incidentally has also done extensive yellowing tests with Liquin. It seems to be a very archival and non yellowing medium, though I don't think he exposed it darkness; nor did he have swatches with centimeter thick impastos. Also... That norma transparent white is likely a proprietary mixture with silica, barite, and/or chalk. All transparent pigments in oils, with silica being the most transparent. I'm still somewhat new to oils (my oldest painting is only 4 years old), and have yet to gain courage to do my first commission, so any advice I run across is appreciated. Subbed 👍

[@emilyerdbeere9210]

Wow, thank you very much. In this Video I can see how pigment mixed with oil behaves. I could throw away all my paintings, because of yellowing, it hurts. I have to store them in the dark for some reasons. My technique - I don’t paint with oilpaint but use oil like a primer and paint over it with oil based coloured pencils to get the finest details and blend them with a brush. To stop yellowing I painted with walnut oil, but it yellowed as much as linseed. I made a testsheet with with further oils, mixed with titanium white. Stand oil, almost no yellowing. Sunflower oil dried fast, but the surface is sticky, like glue. The only colour swatch that didn’t yellow was the safflower oil. So I created plenty of paintings with it. But I was a fool to try the cooking oil. They don’t dry (polymerize). Only the white and light colours, the dark shades stay „wet“, after 1 year. I guess it is because of slow drying pigments… now I will try safflower oil from Schmincke, maybe mixed with some standoil to improve the drying time. I believe in safflower furthermore…

[@robertchilders8698]

I would like flake white with safflower oil! All the titanium whites seem to turn yellow in a shorter period of time !

[@robertchilders8698]

A cobalt solution will speed up drying time.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

The problem with safflower oil is that it can reliquidify after a few years... really strange unusual effect.

[@karelpapik7678]

great work with the testing! I'm a bit unsure about the "zinc" hysteria. Smithonians did some research and to some extent it was tested by JustArt (now owner of Williamsbourg oils). Now everybody just repeating what these two works stated. The result is clear - anything what contain even small part (less than 10%) of zincwhite is inevitably doomed, it cracks. Interesting is that PW4 (Zinc pigment) is used for more than 100 years - where are all those cracked paintings? Like seriously - post photos of these destroyed paintings. Even if just 10% of work would be losed because of the Zinc white it would be HUGE problem and would be discussed much earlier.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Karel, I'm glad you enjoyed this testing. I was as surprised as anyone else, as this choice of paints for artists with a basement studio was not mentioned before - as far as I'm aware. Regarding zinc white, it has been discussed since the 19th century but artists are not aware of the literature. The most important paint chemist in Britain, A.H. Church writes in 1890 that zinc white cracks when used freely. The reason why we don't see those paintings exhibited is because they are on panel (that prevents a lot of the cracking) or they've been taken down from public display for being so destroyed or have been heavily restored. My restorer friends state that it was already well known in the community that zinc was the main cause for cracking on canvas - the Smithsonian study just showed the true extent of the damage and Williamsburg had to reformulate their whole line of oil paints. The fact that it wasn't much talked about doesn't mean anything: it's well known amongst paint chemists that alizarin crimson fades but artists still use it widely. It's also known that paintings on canvases easily rot and need heavy restoring/relining but artists still use it. Most artists are not aware of their own materials and craftsmanship, unfortunately for the future generations - a lot of art is just made to sell quickly and throw away after a few decades. A lot of the cracking only occurs after many many decades, and zinc white is still a new pigment for oil paints. Even the Rijksmuseum, Courtauld Institute and Tate Modern discuss this issue of cracking, particularly when zinc white is associated with ultramarine blue: www.tate.org.uk/about-us/projects/cleaning-modern-oil-paints-0/conference-report

[@nelsonferreirauk]

There's also another reason: zinc white can have two different christaline structures (hexagonal wurtzite and cubic zincblende) - one cracks for sure and the other might not, perhaps, maybe, fingers crossed. Until further testing, it's best to stay clear of both.

[@karelpapik7678]

@@nelsonferreirauk Zinc cracks when used freely - thats true (its just one of many things artist should be aware about). But when used in mixes or for glazing, it should not be an issue really. All artists in the last 100 years paint with Zinc white PW4. I mean not with plain Zinc White (I avoid that too, as its too risky) but in mixes they use it all the time: 1. Many(!) colors contain PW4, some of them more than 30% actually (the only exception are new Williamsburg colors) 2. Many whites labeled "Titanium white" are actually mix PW6 + PW4 So its a fact, that 99% of paintings done in the last 100 years contain ZincWhite (from the reasons above). And Golden research says that even small (less than 10%) of Zinc white means cracking. That would imply, that most of the paintings from the last 100 years (professional and amateurs) are destroyed by cracks which is simply untrue. I can't agree that all painting from the last 100 years are either 1. destroyed, or 2. restored or 3. painted on panel.

[@karelpapik7678]

@@nelsonferreirauk May I know how you handle the whites? - I never use plain PW4 (to avoid problems with cracking) - I use "titanium white" as the main white, which is actually mix PW6/PW4 (I prefer very small part of PW4 like 10% max) - For the glazings or tints I'm using PW4/PW6 "mixed whites" (PW4 50%) -> this is the part which worries me a bit, but how to replace that white?: 1. PW6 titanium is too opaque for glazing and it kills saturation of color in mixes 2. PW5 still too opaque and grayes in time 3. PW1 is toxic (not big problem), very dangerous for cracks in mix with PW4 (bigger problem) and quite opaque (biggest problem) So - which whit to use for mixes and glazing Nelson? Thank you for opinion and your time.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Karel Papik try the (very expensive nanoparticles?) Norma translucent titanium white. That is transparent and won’t crack like zinc. It’s covered in the video at 16:20

[@raimoloija6106]

Hello, thank you for going to the trouble of doing this video. It has been very helpful.

[@clamscasino7279]

Nice test, thanks for sharing your results. FWIW, I’ve been oil painting for about 30 years now using mostly Winsor Newton titanium white with no problems what so ever. I paint thickly and thinly, on canvases and panels, and have seen no cracking or delaminating to date. I believe many manufacturers include some zinc in their titanium whites for whatever reason - I’m not sure about the science, but I can tell you from experience that I haven’t seen any problems to date. This is assuming of course, that W&N have always included zinc in the titanium white I’ve been using. Out of curiosity, you say that zinc begins to brittle in as little as three years. Your test piece is three years old now, have you noticed any brittleness in the zinc blends?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Clams Casino, 30 years is nothing as the paint wouldn't crack anyway unless you'd roll the canvas. That's where the real problems begin! In 3 years the lack in flexibility is already detected by scientific methods. Our personal experience is too rough to count in science. Zinc white will cause the paint to crack and delaminate. It might not be during our lifetime, but it will happen. What most painters don't know is that the Pre-Raphaelites knew of this problem. They also mixed copal varnish into the zinc white oil paint, which would alter its properties (apparently you cannot find real copal varnish anymore, in despite of some claims). Finally, there are three isotopes of the zinc white molecule: they possibly crack differently and, until we know better about this, neither I neither any oil paint manufacturer should be recommending it.

[@tiagodealbuquerque8147]

Thank you for sharing such a good video Nelson.

[@miasstuff1948]

Thank you so much for this! I do experiments myself but haven’t compared the Whites at all (other than the Titanium v Lead etc), so this was all new information and, extremely helpful. THANK YOU!!! 🙏🤗👍🏻👏🏻

[@ams9449]

just use zinc thinly and on panel only. Also, in titanium whites zinc is usually about 1-2%, if you don't put it in the titanium will oxidize badly with a lot of oil coming up.

[@hedonismbot3274]

What schmincke told me : In our colors 10 013 Titanium Opaque White, 11 114 Titanium White and 41 102 Titanium White, we still use a small but necessary proportion (well below 10%) of zinc oxide, as zinc oxide takes on important technical functions. We take advantage of the ability of zinc oxide to increase the surface hardness of the oil films formed in the special formulation of the titanium white oil paints. For all colors in the range, we formulate with combinations of linseed oil, safflower oil and walnut oil for type 10 MUSSINI® or linseed oil and sunflower oil for type 11 Norma®PROFESSIONAL. We make an exception for our white colors. In order to keep yellowing as low as possible, we do not use linseed oil for these colors, but mainly safflower oil (type 10 MUSSINI®) and sunflower oil for type 11 Norma®PROFESSIONAL and type 41 AKADEMIE® oil. In contrast to dried linseed oil films, the dried oil film of safflower and sunflower oil is softer. This softness of the color films formed is compensated for by the zinc oxide. However, it is important to ensure that the concentration of zinc oxide is precisely adjusted to avoid embrittlement of the color films formed. A positive side effect is the additional improvement in yellowing resistance, which is much more noticeable without the presence of zinc oxide. In addition, pure zinc white, which has been used in painting for decades due to its special coloring properties, is an irreplaceable and technically proven color. Without the use of zinc oxide, in the long-standing Kremser white tone, the special properties such as drying, color strength and coloring of real Kremser white could not be achieved. In the colored shades, zinc oxide is used to adjust the color; here, too, as with all colors, the overall recipe must be considered.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@hedonismbot3274 pure marketing. Read more about safflower oil and how it reliquifies even after 10 years of being apparently dry. Also, some Mussini greys were the oil paints that cracked the quickest in my tests. It’s a shame because the paint hands beautifully while still wet.

[@pollyester6627]

Interesting experiments, well done. The reason partly that zinc white is added is to reduce the 'chalkiness' of titanium. Recently read that zinc used on a rigid surface with an oil base ground is fairly safe compared to an acrylic gesso ground.

[@elizabeths174]

Great video, however Daniel Smith oils have been discontinued and the only other option for Titanium White without zinc that I found is Williamsburg oils.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Thanks for your great comment. I guess Rublev Titanium White will be excellent quality, but I didn't test it yet.

[@chrisgriffith1573]

I'd love to see this testing done with Blue Ridge Oils, Williamsburg and Geneva Oil, all American brands, new to the market relatively, but very good brands, professional grade paints.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

I'd love to, unfortunately not available in Europe. Williamsburg is in this video.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

I believe Geneva contains clove oil, known to turn black in time?

[@ubergeraldine]

Well that was absolutely brilliant! I can't thank you enough! Solved many issues! Duly subbed and will share. Thanks again. Was intrigued by the Langridge white as I use some Langridge paints so looked up the while you mentioned. Alas at least in the UK the non PW4 is not available.. I expect they have to get rid of the old stock! I'll survive though!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Thanks for your lovely message. I'm glad it was useful! If you contact supremepaint.co.uk they might be able to order it for you?

[@jahjahiscallin3237]

All that performed that best in terms of yellowing were those that contained Zinc. Zinc had always been used to reduce the opacity of titanium and because is decreases yellowing. While this is all good, it comes with a cost. People say zinc cracks, thats the least of our worries. IT DELAMINATES! Titanium is best used without zinc. Sure it wil yellow in the dark but much will reverse in the light. Companies like Natural Pigments/Rublev and Golden/Williamsburg has given great advice about these issues. One of the most useful is the to paint thinly rather than impasto which is why lots of your swatches are so yellow the thicker the paint.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Natural Pigments, Golden etc give excellent advice. If you watch the whole video you’ll see that the one I recommend to paint on panel doesn’t contain zinc. And it didn’t yellow at all.

[@SnkobArts]

Lithopone is a semi-opaque/semi-transparent white that is a good alternative to titanium-zinc oxide paints. It is zinc based as well, but it is zinc SULPHIDE co-precipitated with barite, so it supposedly doesn't have the brittleness of normal zinc oxide. I have yet to verify with my own stress tests. As far as behavior, rublevs lithopone felt similar to Williamsburgs Titanium and gamblin's radiant white in it's stringiness and body. As a mixing white, it was somewhere between cremnintz white and titanium: Cool temperatured, but without the chalkiness and still retaining the vibrancy of mixtures. However, it was still a significantly stronger tinter than cremnintz white, and didn't have lead white's pearlescence. My experience with cremnintz is with Blue Ridge's, which uses safflower. From what I gather, lead white's behavior varies drastically based on the oil used. Blue Ridge's cremnintz was very fluffy. It was nice to work with but my inexperience with it as a mixing white had me struggling. Cremnintz gets overpowered easily by modern synthetic pigments, so I found myself mixing it with Titanium to combat this. Circling back to lithopone, I found it's tinting strength to be very similar to titanium-cremnintz and titanium-chalk/calcite mixtures. So, it retained vibrancy but could still stand up to thalos, pyrrol reds, quinacridones, etc., without being completely deleted. I would actually recommend it as an academic pigment, possibly something to use as a stepping stone to cremnintz in learning how to use weaker whites for more subtle mixtures.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Perfect advise, thanks for commenting.

[@pawehordyniak636]

Hey, we see cracking and delamination as a problem, but every corporate manager would love it. If we were like Samsung or Apple we would now use zinc-white EXCLUSIVELY, so our paintings would have built in planned obsolescence like everything else. Collectors would have to buy new paintings every few years to replace those that cracked and delaminated :D. profit!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

That's right!

[@trappedindc8678]

You might want to look at Blue Ridge Oil Colors, a small company from Asheville North Carolina in the USA. Five different whites. Only one contains zinc. Blended with a mixture of walnut and safflower oils.

[@nickb863]

Have you seen the recent videos about Titanium White producing a ‘voodoo darkening’ that is almost a full stop of light (to use camera terminology) darker from the originally mixed value? I did some research and this is because the pigments separate during the drying period. Something to do with the upwelling of less dense pigments, which if you were take a cross section of the paint film, the more dense pw6 pigments have sunk beneath the less dense pigments of the remaining mixture rather than being evenly dispersed. Pw1 does not present this defect.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Yes, this is a recurrent problem. But it also happens with thick paint. Also, when the canvas is vertical, so I do not think it is caused by gravity.

[@nickb863]

@@nelsonferreiraukthe paint film is a 3-dimensional structure so when I’m talking about a cross section I mean at the microscopic level the 3d structure, or network is reconfiguring. The molecular bonds change in various ways within the film regardless of if the substrate is horizontal or vertical. The fundamental mechanisms are induction and autooxidation causing the density increases and surface tension changes which in turn changes the 3D structure.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@nickb863 that could indeed explain the voodoo darkening. It’s exceedingly frustrating, especially if orchestrating an harmony of exact pale tones. 3 days later and it’s all horrible and out of sync!

[@nickb863]

@@nelsonferreiraukyes it is! I ended up tubing mixtures if I need to match to an exact value / hue. Tedious work! Or sometimes I can kind of guess how much it will shift and compensate accordingly but until touch dry things look bad. I am actively working on finding a solution although this would most likely mean introducing some sort of additive which of course always poses it’s own risks.

[@janet4900]

Wonderful video. I love how thorough you are. I just have one question. Under what circumstance will I ever bend or roll my canvas? I would not ever remove it from the wood frame. But I understand that a restorer would probably remove it from the frame when they are repairing it. I guess I am just searching for reasons to keep my lovely Sennelier titanium white. It's good if you are a beginner to start out with good rules, but once you already have been painting with zinc, it's harder to change. I have been keeping detailed records of all my paints, and which pigments they have, and how much I paid for them. I am very inflexible when it comes to getting a paint that has an ASTM II pigments. I want all of mine to be ASTM I lightfastness, only. I have about 6 tubes with ASTM II pigments which have been banished to a box in the closet. What's your opinion on that? Are ASTM II pigments acceptable?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Hi Janet, rolling up a painting can happen if a client relocates and wants to transport a large painting. It can also happen if a painting is sold/donated. Even worse, most people roll it badly - the painting should never be rolled with the painted surface inwardly! Regarding ASTM II pigments, I totally agree with you. The only exception is if you use the ASTM II pigments thickly and never mix them with white. If they're used pure and thickly, they tend to be lightfast. But ASTM I is a much safer bet.

[@ryanoconnor7957]

ASTM II pigments are fine if you use a UV stable varnish and store the painting out of direct sunlight.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@ryanoconnor7957 unfortunately UV filters usually don't last long, most manufacturers will only give about 8 years of effectiveness. After those years, they gradually lose their efficacy.

[@user-hc7fi1od4d]

Very useful information! Can I ask you a question? Surely you have a lot of experience, please advise the paint that can be used directly from the tube, with minimal mixing with mediums. That is, the paint is as similar in consistency as possible to Daler Georgian. It suits me best. It reminds me of a cream that doesn't run off the canvas and can easily be mixed with a stiff brush. it can also be compared to shaving foam, but still denser. Maimeri Classico I find too oily and quite dense and thick. It is also desirable that the paint has a shine after drying. What other paints have a consistency similar to Georgian?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with Georgian, as it is student's quality. I only work with top brands. Generally, glossy paints are Mussini - although too thick for your liking. Rembrandt is softer in consistency. Rublev depends, as each pigment is unique with that brand. The sheen can be changed with a varnish. Avoid mediums as they weaken the paint film.

[@ianbrowne8871]

When I visited the Lowry museum in Salford I discovered the artist used to prime canvases in lead white and leave them for months in a dark cupboard. He preferred to paint on the beautiful ivory white surface that resulted. One to try??

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Unfortunately that ivory surface will bleach back to white once it's exposed to daylight. It's safer to paint the exact colour you want, as the result will be permanent.

[@ianbrowne8871]

I found your video tutorial very useful. I just made the point about Lowry because he seems very eccentric in his choice of colours and methods! @@nelsonferreirauk

[@sepidehmlk1765]

Thanks Nelson, very helpful. It's been three years since you've posted it, I wonder how the swatches look right now. Could you please keep us updated with a short new video?

[@amandawilner6070]

in your opinion, which is the best linseed titanium white oil paint?

[@harddunbye6553]

Given the amount of white paint I use am I going to pay double because I'm concerned my paintings are going to crack in the future, probably not. I'd be far more concerned with the paints yellowing than cracking. I've been painting for almost sixty years and have noticed some yellowing of older paintings which I suspect is because they were stored in the dark. I haven't noticed any cracking to speak of but then again I paint mostly on solid panels. Painters in the past painted on canvas that was sized with rabbit skin glue and from my own research have been told that that is the primary reason old paintings crack. And to maintain that most of the painting old paintings we see in the world have been restored seems to me to be a claim that seriously underestimates how many paintings there are in the world and of them how few are worth restoring. Bottom line, I seriously doubt anything I paint in my lifetime will be considered worthy of restoration in one hundred years but if it is then I'm contributing to the future economy by giving a restorer a job.

[@robertjacobs2178]

Great presentation and very informative! I did not know the darkening could occur so quickly under basement-like conditions. I use permalba white (which contains zinc but has a nice viscosity), titanium and lead white (w/ mediums like egg, stand oil, linseed, turpentine, damar, and copal drops.) We should all try your experiments with our colours and mediums. Thanks!

[@nelsonferreira-aulasdearte]

Robert Jacobs indeed, we should test our materials. Note that Permalba is very brittle because of the zinc, if you wish to use it then please paint on rigid panels.

[@森下典樹]

when apply thickly, oil tends to floating towards the surface and pooling. I saw a article argue that additive like bee wax to keep the binder and pigment from seperation in their experiment reduce the yellowing.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Indeed, although it increases brittleness and other problems.

[@dimitrispapadimitriou5622]

@@nelsonferreirauk From another source, I've heard that beeswax improves the flexibility of the oil paint film, not the opposite. Is there any scientific research that investigates this? Also, what about lithopone ( PW5)? I've been using it only recently. It seems to be great for mixing , even for glazing when subtly mixed with transparent colours. And, most importantly, it's non toxic!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@dimitrispapadimitriou5622 Lithopone is great, I also enjoy using it, much better than zinc white. Unfortunately, we cannot trust art "sources" unless they're properly certified. The art world is still full of fake recipes, ignorance and anti-scientific approaches. Beeswax does make the oil paint brittle, especially is very cold weather. I recommend you ask the conservation department of Delaware University, they have an amazing free forum called MITRA, and you'll get a reply from a professor of conservation: www.artcons.udel.edu/mitra/forums

[@dimitrispapadimitriou5622]

@@nelsonferreirauk Thanks for the answer and for the recommendation!

[@Rr-ty8hm]

Thanks for this video Nelson, really interesting. I've subscribed. Given that Daniel Smith have discontinued their traditional oils, which titanium white would you recommend for people based in the UK/Europe? Would it be another titanium white from this test, or have you done further 'yellowing' tests since this?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Thank you! That's an excellent question and I must try the Rublev Titanium white and some other brands. Unfortunately, most of the other brands still contain zinc - known for causing cracking. I need to do more tests. Meanwhile, please refer to this chart: www.naturalpigments.com/artist-materials/zinc-white-oil-paint-color

[@youareamazingyesyou5880]

Excellent informative video! You did a lot of work and research... and thankyou for sharing it...ts much appreciated.. Ive only been painting in oils for a few months. I had to throw out the oil paints as they were far too fumy and full of additives, along with the drying medium and dilutant. Im allergic to them all. However, I love painting in oils so much, I cant give it up... so i am trying out single tubes from different top oil paint companies, to see if i can go forward. I have a rembrant white, which now i know contains zinc white, and so i cannot use, its also very fumey. I have an old holland, ..it has brilliant saturation of colour pigment, but extremely fumey. I also bought an M. Graham. Very nice texture and seems less fumey. May I ask what do you think of M.Graham oil paints.?.. they are in walnut oil, instead of linseed. (Im not sure about how long these paintings might last) And is there an artist grade oil paint you could recommend for me to use? I'd really appreciate it. thankyou

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Thanks so much for your kind words. I've never tried M. Graham oils, yet walnut oil should be perfectly fine - especially if painted onto rigid panels, as walnut oil might dry slightly more brittle than linseed oil. I don't recommend any specific brand as they all have their own fortes and downfalls. Have you tried Rublev? They are arguably the most authentic brand, made according to old masters oil paint recipes.

[@JessicaCinNY]

I feel your pain! Try paints made with safflower oils. I can use the Winsor and Newton colors made with safflower oil but not the colors made with Linseed oil. Their website lists the ingredients for each color. So far, I've tried Gamblin Ivory Black with no problems, even though it's linseed oil based. Michael Harding's Titanium White 1 is safflower based and hasn't bothered my extremely sensitive nose. I'm also going to try Sennelier which is safflower based. It's extremely frustrating to be so sensitive. I can't use M Graham because of the odor, too woody. (I can't stand wood smells, like sawdust or cedar pencils or sandalwood scents.)

[@jesswilson7549]

Really helpful video, thank you Nelson. What mediums do you recommend which will also not yellow the paint?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

I recommend to avoid mediums as much as possible. Use them as little as possible!

[@TeamVEDEL]

Thank you for posting, this is by far the best Indepth discussing of Zink white. Do you have any info as the use of *Sun-flower-oil? What's the Dis vantage? I inherited this sun-flower-oil without instructions... Can you post some medium info for oil painters?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Eva, the only oils that are truly archival are linseed and walnut... I don't recommend anything else as it usually makes the paints either too brittle, or sticky, or easy to scratch off etc. The same with mediums: careful with resins or strange concoctions, the National Gallery technical reports state that most old master's paintings were done exclusively with linseed oil. If you need it thicker then you can add fumed silica, and avoid resins. Alkyds are also brilliant and will probably survive even longer than oil paints.

[@cisp360]

I am shock because the oil colors yellow so much. On the chart, you wrote some thing like >10 days, did some of the paints yellow in just a few days? And if we let the painting in natural lighting environment, the colors will not yellow?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Indeed, if kept in natural light then they will not yellow or will do it just minimally. The number of days represent how long it took them to be touch dry.

[@robertchilders8698]

Yellowing is caused by the entensity of the light falling upon it! The brighter the light the more yellowing it gets! Mediums do cause a roll in it, I found yellowing is worse with titanium white despite the medium. Flake White gets brighter in bright sunlite! It can wash out the colors it is mixed with! I have painting's , when kept indoors- without direct light that have not changed in 50 years irregardless of the way they were mixed! Self taught artist for the last 70 years!!

[@karelpapik7678]

What is the real problem with the darkening of the paint anyway? This is known phenomen where the painting darkens when it is not exposed to the light. But this is 100% reversable (you put them for 2-3 days at normal light and it restores the brightness 100%) So the problem is not with finalised paintings right? Maybe with the painting in progress when the colors might me darker than it will be when exposed to normal light?

[@nelsonferreira-aulasdearte]

Yes, it has to do with painting in a basement studio where colours will start shifting in about a week. That’s totally unacceptable for precise tuning of colour on large/slower painting and to construct fine colour harmonies.

[@karelpapik7678]

@@nelsonferreira-aulasdearte I see. Thank you for the explanation.

[@petergeorgopoulos7041]

Hi Nelson, absolutely brilliant, much appreciated, keep up the great work, appreciated, Obrigado.

[@paulabivardesousa701]

Brutal! Subscrital! Dás aulas em portugal? Estou a tentar aprender mais sobre os pigmetos e as formulações das tintas, e está a ser dificil encontrar informação.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Olá Paula, dou sim. O melhor é adicionares o teu email à minha lista, em www.nelson-ferreira.com

[@KaustavMukherjeeFineArt]

Very informative. Thanks. I've been using DS PW6 paint for the last three years just because it is the only artist grade PW6 white I can afford. But I didn't have any idea about it's resistance to yellowing! I do use zinc mixed ones but they are mostly for small studies done on panels. I only use tiny quantity of linseed oil as medium to make paints movable as I don't agree to adding thinners. Your excellent video seems to tell me that my theory was correct. :) Can you do a test for recognizable student grade paints? Obviously it shouldn't be about pigment strength but longevity and yellowing. A lot of young artists might be benefited.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

I would love to but unfortunately those tests needs equipment which cannot be replaced just by painting samples. Longevity is measured with scientific tools such as UV light, heat, stressors etc, as the paints tested by painters would only prove durable or not after many decades.

[@centradragon]

Great video! I wish Daniel Smith didn't discontinue their traditional oil paints! Now they only sell a water-mixable version, so further tests would have to be done to see if it was the same quality. Old Holland uses a ton of zinc in their mixes which I'm a little disappointed by. :( No idea if this is true, but I read that Dark Yellowing is reversible if you stick the painting in sunlight for a few hours (or keep it in normal lighting conditions, presumably with UV light) - in your experience, have you found this to be the case? I've seen so many paintings in museums that *weren't* yellowed that were hundreds of years old, so it's surprising to see on your test strips!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Indeed, sunlight will reverse the yellowing. The problem is when you have a basement studio - all this yellowing becomes a disaster! Thanks for your lovely message.

[@centradragon]

@@nelsonferreirauk At least it's reversible! If the lack of UV light causes the yellowing, I'd suggest temporarily using UVB bulbs (reptile lights) or even florescent bulbs... but the EU actually just banned these a few months ago so they might be hard to find, lol. I hope you don't have a chameleon! UVB LED lights are coming soon, so maybe that'd be an alternative?

[@B.Duncan]

I'm assuming zinc white is zinc oxide. While my experience is not oil painting (I paint watercolors), I would paint objects I would restore. One of the paints I use is Rust-Oleum spray paint. On the back, in fine print, it says don't use on galvanized metal, which is zinc plated. It didn't say why. I researched it more and found out that when the oils in the paint come in contact with the zinc oxide it saponifies a bit. In other words, it forms a thin soap film. After a while the oil based spray paint will start to peel or flake off. I wonder if this could be the reason for PW4, zinc white, having a tendency to crack. A poor bond between the pigment and the oils. Has anyone had any experience with zinc white cracking in acrylics?

[@tba1879]

Interesting. I've been using Permalba White for years (it's a blend of titanium and zinc whites). never a problem with darkening, yellowing, or cracking on either canvas or panels.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Cracking wouldn't appear in less than a few good years! Regarding yellowing, this test states at the beginning that it applies to basement studios - without natural light. The moment there is natural light involved during the drying of the paint then the effects of yellowing are subverted.

[@tba1879]

Many, many years. No yellowing with paintings kept in a closet.

[@ryanoconnor7957]

@@tba1879 how can you be sure? Nelson used acrylic as a control and the yellowing on some of the brands is only noticeable beside the control

[@tba1879]

@@ryanoconnor7957 Real-world experience.

[@robertchilders8698]

When I can't get flake white - I like Permalba white.

[@bozmundarts2614]

m graham's titanium white might perhaps perform better due to their usage of walnut oil, besides of on their own words have worked the paint so it doesnt crack?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Perhaps, we don't have that brand in the UK so I couldn't test it.

[@bozmundarts2614]

@@nelsonferreirauk ohh okay okay, well, i do think its availbale in Jackson's Art which is in the UK, but if you feel like doing the test that is of course.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@bozmundarts2614 Brilliant, in that case I'll definitely try it out.

[@vaderetro264]

About zinc white: the studies which claim it becomes brittle and will soon crack are by no means definitive. Paint producer Old Holland posted a brief article on their website where they say that according to their experience worries about zinc white have been 'significantly overestimated'. No tests are shown but it's a statement to be taken into account. I've also made one little experiment on my own: I painted a 40x50cm canvas with fairly thick zinc white (pure zinc white and linseed oil), let it dry for just 3 weeks and then rolled it the 'wrong way', that is with the painted surface face down. After almost 3 years (rolled) still no sign of deterioration, the surface is perfect. It's early for any sort of 'definitive' answer, of course, but according to the well-known Golden's study (which I'm sure you are referring to) the painted surface should have at least cracked, if not flaked off. Let's be careful when citing 'scientific tests', they are often flawed. Not saying with my little experiment I've proved zinc white is safe, but there may be other factors that caused problems. Also, there's at least one famous painting (I can't remember if by Millais, Waterhouse or another 19th century artist) done using zinc white and still in excellence conditions. It can't be the only one...

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Vade Retro The truth is that there’s different types of zinc crystals and neither the chemist at Old Holland, neither you or me knows which ones will crack or not - but it’s certain that several will. The Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood reputedly mixed a few drops of true copal varnish (which you can’t really find anymore) into the zinc white and when that mix got sticky then they’d glaze the colours on top. This will change the behaviour of the paint and is certainly different to alla prima method more used nowadays. Which of the zinc white crystals were used by them? Old Holland doesn’t know it, as they aren’t painting conservators. Please note that the Smithsonian test of the zinc white wasn’t made on canvas but on plastic. This choice was deliberate in order to accelerate the results. The cracking was awful. So awful that you wouldn’t dare roll up any Pre-Raphaelite painting as the result would be the same (again, depending on which type of zinc white crystal they’ve used). Please check the conversation I had below with Karel, on a different thread. Tate Modern or the Rijksmuseum had talks about zinc white being a major issue. And the conservators of the National Gallery and professors from several universities had discussed this with me many times, including the university where I teach. It’s a well known fact amongst the conservation community. And brands Michael Harding and Langridge just banned all zinc white additions from their paints, it wasn’t just Williamsburg. (Btw, Old Holland paint chemist should explain why their range is the one that yellows the most from all the premium brands...)

[@ShotDownInFlames2]

Vade Retro, I agree, the claims seems to be dire but I've never seem any proof. All particles are embedded in linseed oil anyway, which is very strong itself.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@ShotDownInFlames2 linseed oil is actually one of the weakest binders, once it ages. There's more to scientific fact than just appearance. We all know quite well that each pigment affects the paint: electrostatic charges, chemical reactions and even the shape of the crystal will highly impact the durability of a paint film, as well as drying speed, glossiness etc. Again, 20 or 30 years are nothing in terms of the ageing of a paint film. The cracking of zinc white has been documented since the 19th century.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@sean ogara I totally agree! Old Holland paints yellowed the most from any of the brands I've tested, apart from Seymour Wallace that also yellowed terribly.

[@jwfleck64]

Very interesting and thorough. (I can't help but think of all the money that paint set you back.) Every tried Porcelain White? Williamsburg makes one and I like it a lot. (PW5 in safflower oil) It does not cool colors as much as titanium.

[@nelsonferreira-aulasdearte]

John Fleck yes, will make a separate video on that topic (whites other than titanium). Indeed, it’s a lot of money!

[@karelpapik7678]

problem with PW5 is that it grays in time. safflower oils doesn't yellow (much) but its more vulnerable to cracks.

[@jwfleck64]

@@karelpapik7678 I asked Williamsburg about this and received this reply: "Early manufacture of Lithopone was problematic because of graying with UV exposure. They remedied that issue through a change in the manufacturing process in the first quarter of the 20th century. The Lithopone we use does not have any issues with darkening. We have exposed Williamsburg Porcelain White in direct light in Florida and Arizona as well as in-house QUV light chambers without any issues."

[@robertchilders8698]

I wish more paints would use Safflower more often!

[@ikkiiiieee]

I read that Zinc white is a necessary 'evil' to improve the handling of the titanium as well as improving drying. It tends to be superior than pure Titanium formulations and is said to be the best we have if we chose not to use Lead white

[@nelsonferreirauk]

That used to be the commonly held belief amongst many people. But paint chemists have been warning us for over 100 years now! It is a mistake to use zinc white in oils. Apparently, zinc white doesn't create problems in any other media - it can be safely used in egg tempera, watercolours, acrylics etc.

[@leschatsont9vies]

I just learned that my 7 tubes W. and N. 200ml are not what I expected... luckily i just started buying dry pigments, like pW6, Please what do you think of walnut oil mixed with PW6?? I plan to put as little oil as possible, and then I would like to use this paint with Liquin to make it "dry" faster, is it a good idea ?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

It should work well, although it's too dependent on the way it's mulled. Handmade paints tend to be too oily if you're not careful.

[@leschatsont9vies]

​@@nelsonferreirauk thank you for your answer, it is much appreciated, I will follow this advice to the letter, have a great day !

[@ArtAcademy5]

Useful information, thanks, I hope you will make other videos about other colors.

[@MichaelMoesslang]

Very helpful, very professionally done. Thank you. 🙏

[@MrSilva960]

Também sou Português, e interesso-me bastante pela Pintura a Óleo. Achei o seu video bastante interessante.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Obrigado! Fico feliz de saber isso. Bem-vindo ao canal. Tenho um outro canal em português, se preferir.

[@lordofthemound3890]

I don’t think you touched on this in the video but what is the paint marked “Open titanium white” near the top left? Sorry if you explained and I missed it.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

It's a slow drying acrylic paint: Golden Open

[@silvanabaralha8665]

Obrigada por toda esta informação! Já experimentou/ testou o flake white alternative da supreme paints?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Ainda não, pois tive muitos problemas com as tintas Wallace Seymour. Recomenda este branco?

[@silvanabaralha8665]

@@nelsonferreirauk olá! Eu não sou profissional nem nada que se pareça contudo fiquei com a ideia de que este branco - o da WS- tem excesso de óleo e amarelece mais, sendo que também mantem menos a intencidade da cor com que for misturado do que, por ex, o falke white da gama mais baixa da windsor e o flake da schmike, de gama superior, portanto. Assim tenho algumas reservas também. Uso-o bastante para misturas contudo se quiser manter mais intencidade na cor, terei que ir aos flakes que referi. Entretanto adquiri nos EUA um branco chumbo verdadeiro que ainda não experimentei. Contudo sendo o "verdadeiro", será certamente superior a todos os outros naquilo que estes pretendem substituir. Que tipo de problemas teve com a referida marca, já agora?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@silvanabaralha8665 Foi também excesso de óleo e amaralecimento acentuado. Por isso, não recomendo Wallace Seymour.

[@silvanabaralha8665]

@@nelsonferreirauk ok obrigada ;)

[@annieweston3317]

I have Rembrandt paint. I got a top set for christmas. What do you think about this brand?

[@nelsonferreira-aulasdearte]

Annie Weston I discuss that paint on this video around 10:20’ unfortunately, it contains zinc so it’ll easily crack in the future.

[@annieweston3317]

@@nelsonferreira-aulasdearte goddamit! See this is why i need this tutorial..i am new to oils

[@WDeeGee1]

Rembrandt is fine, excellent.

[@karelpapik7678]

Rembrant is great color. But many Rembrant colors contain zinc white (kings blue, cobalt blue light, etc.). Just like all other brands with the exception of Williamsburg. So if zinc means cracking, all your paintings will crack. Actually all paintings done with any brand of color will crack beause all of them contain zinc. Sounds crazy? Yes, it does.

[@zbthunderwood]

Rembrandt reminds me of M. Graham: both are very vibrant, high quality paints but a little on the soft and oily side for my tastes. They very well may be perfect for you though.

[@TobyLerone76]

What about varnish? Does it not block uv

[@samahdi6972]

Very informative, Thank You.

[@user-hc7fi1od4d]

and one more question about the drying time. the video shows Sennelier 5 days 9. so 5 or 9 days? and what is the drying time of blockx on poppy oil?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

It started to dry at 5 days and only on the 9th day it started to dry on the thicker areas. I do not recommend Sennelier for several reasons - one of them is that it stays tacky and it will collect all the dust... some Sennelier colours are still sticky, after several years of drying in the studio! Blockx dries very slowly, as it is based on slow drying oils. I cannot remember now, but maybe 2 weeks or so.

[@WhiteHorseStudioArt]

Would you have a photo of this chart, illuminated by natural white light? Acrylics are said not to yellow, but the Old Holland New Masters acrylic looks very slightly off-white, compared to Winsor and Newton acrylic. Is this because of the warm light being used in the video? Or has Old Holland acrylic yellowed slightly? In natural light, are arylics on the chart pure white?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Forest Hymn, this light is full spectrum white balanced for photography - practically as good as natural light. If you see a colour cast it might be either caused by my iphone camera or by your screen calibration. Regarding the whiteness of the acrylic paint, the W&N acrylics look slightly whiter than the New Masters because they are nearer to the light source. Even the Dibond panel itself is lighter on the top than at the bottom. In reality, both acrylic whites are quite similar, apart from gloss levels - W&N is satin, New Masters is glossy.

[@WhiteHorseStudioArt]

@@nelsonferreirauk I see what you mean, at minute 17:25, I see both paints are exactly the same, due to some light reflecting back to the lower side of the panel. Thank you so much for your generosity in sharing your knowledge, and this experiment. It's very valuable to all artists..Thank you for your reply too. It was sad to learn that oils yellow in darkness, and yellow as they age. Hoping maybe the Old Holland acrylics will have similar luminosity to oils, without aging.. as fast as oils.. In a sense it doesn't matter, as people can scan their paintings.. but it's still nice knowing the original will be around for years.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@WhiteHorseStudioArt Theoretically that yellowing is reversible, by exposing the painting to natural light. In reality, it is still a problem - as most paintings could be damaged by exposing them to natural light, in case the pigments aren't 100% lightfast.

[@amandawilner1486]

What about gamblin flake white replacement?

[@robertchilders8698]

Nothing but modified tetanium white- lousy!

[@williamwinn948]

i always used Winsor and newton artist Titanium white.

[@mustcvids1851]

My white oil paint turned into yellow . how can i fix it ?

[@Pulapaws]

Set in indirect sunlight for a few days like he said near the beginning of the video.

[@robertchilders8698]

I've never been able to fix it! Titanium white just naturally turns yellow! No matter what the medium ! You must use flake white, which is misaligned ànd hard to get!?

[@asddasads]

Please do this with Black paint!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

It's on my list of "to do" videos. Cheers

[@PY4SR]

Muito bom! Obrigado. Você conhece os oils da blue ridge (USA). Eu tenho gostado bastante.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Ainda não, mas ouvi falar muito bem dessa marca!

[@nombinator]

What you said about Cobra is only true the study series (fine quality). The extra fine series use only PW6.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@nombi where do you see two ranges of Cobra? The Talens website only mentions one type of Cobra, for artists.

[@nombinator]

@@nelsonferreirauk There's a study and an artist range of Cobra paint. On the Talens website, look under the Brand menu for Cobra, you'll see the icons for Artist, Study, Auxiliaries, ... I've rechecked everything about Cobra titanium white, and I was wrong. The color chart you can download in PDF is wrong about it (it say only PW6). But on the website, under titanium white detail, it say PW6/PW4 (with zinc white). And I have a tube of Cobra Artist and it also say PW6/PW4 on it. So you're correct and I'm wrong. Sorry about it.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@nombinator no worries. Thanks for clarifying and sending me more info. Indeed, I've noticed many contradictions between manufacturer's websites and the labels on the tubes. It's all very confusing at times!

[@patriciozazzini3182]

, the cracking is always related to the amount of medium but Zinc White is not archivable.but is there anyone here that uses pure white?I don't think so

[@mizukilla]

Almost the titanium white on the market has a little bit of zinc white, just they tell us or not ( because the percentage is small ). It's the only way to make titanium usable because they are too chalky. If the percentage is not much ( less than 25% ), that's not a worrisome. So I think that's why all big brand still mix a little bit zinc to their titanium white. Some of my students still prefer use flake white or lead white, it's toxic but only if u eat ur painting !!!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Mizuki, I've made pure titanium white several times and it's not chalky at all - except for a few warm tints, that can be made with Norma transparent white or Rublev Lithopone (the later takes a month to dry!). The issue is that even 3% of zinc white already destroys the flexibility of paint.

[@janet4900]

Ikr, I totally don't always trust what the manufacturers say are in the tubes. They will probably add some cheaper pigments to get a higher profit margin, too.

[@hedonismbot3274]

What schmincke told me : In our colors 10 013 Titanium Opaque White, 11 114 Titanium White and 41 102 Titanium White, we still use a small but necessary proportion (well below 10%) of zinc oxide, as zinc oxide takes on important technical functions. We take advantage of the ability of zinc oxide to increase the surface hardness of the oil films formed in the special formulation of the titanium white oil paints. For all colors in the range, we formulate with combinations of linseed oil, safflower oil and walnut oil for type 10 MUSSINI® or linseed oil and sunflower oil for type 11 Norma®PROFESSIONAL. We make an exception for our white colors. In order to keep yellowing as low as possible, we do not use linseed oil for these colors, but mainly safflower oil (type 10 MUSSINI®) and sunflower oil for type 11 Norma®PROFESSIONAL and type 41 AKADEMIE® oil. In contrast to dried linseed oil films, the dried oil film of safflower and sunflower oil is softer. This softness of the color films formed is compensated for by the zinc oxide. However, it is important to ensure that the concentration of zinc oxide is precisely adjusted to avoid embrittlement of the color films formed. A positive side effect is the additional improvement in yellowing resistance, which is much more noticeable without the presence of zinc oxide. In addition, pure zinc white, which has been used in painting for decades due to its special coloring properties, is an irreplaceable and technically proven color. Without the use of zinc oxide, in the long-standing Kremser white tone, the special properties such as drying, color strength and coloring of real Kremser white could not be achieved. In the colored shades, zinc oxide is used to adjust the color; here, too, as with all colors, the overall recipe must be considered.

[@vladimirelnitskii4448]

Even pure zinc oxide white is making cracks only if it is used alone or if it is mixed with a very small amount of pigment - like if it was used in painting the pictures of sky or something like that. In the good mix with earth colors and many others there is no cracks of zinc white at all. Most of modern paints will crack while bending because of big amount of siccative that make them dry quicker and simultaneously make them brittle. Safflower oil dries very slowly without the addition of a siccative and remains very elastic and soft even after years.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Vladimir, please check Golden Paints and Williamsburg’s latest research. The cracking of zinc white occurred even with as little as 3% in the mix, which is something we always knew in restoration departments of universities: justpaint.org/zinc-oxide-reviewing-the-research/

[@mustcvids1851]

i used titanium white on canvas and its and its starting to yellow . what can i do to fix it ?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Perhaps the best thing is to expose the painting in a very well lit room with ample amounts of natural light. I hope it reverts.

[@robertchilders8698]

Don't use titanium white in any form?! It really yellows!

[@robertchilders8698]

@@nelsonferreirauk It gets worse in bright light. I deliberately put some paintings out doors and they turned into disasters!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@robertchilders8698 did the paints start to "cry"? Certain brands are known to release drops of oil many years after looking totally dry. Sennelier does that, so does Schmincke.

[@issypeassy]

DS white also contains 5% of zinc white from what I have researched.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Debora, could you please provide the source? I’m curious to read about it.

[@EmilyTam-ul7fl]

this is so insightful！ I have learnt so much thanks😊

[@nelsonferreirauk]

My pleasure Emily!

[@msd5808]

They must put zinc white in it because it yellows less, but perhaps it is just a little zinc and not enough to make it too brittle.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Even as low as 3% of zinc white will make the paints 10x more brittle: justpaint.org/zinc-oxide-reviewing-the-research/

[@SigurdBraathen]

I did not know that titanium white may darken when it dries ... in the dark. This seems counterintuitive! =D

[@robertchilders8698]

I think you got flake white confused with titanium white...

[@bobbytirlea]

Good news: Some master brands discontinued the use of PW4 in their Titanium white oil paints (if that matters now at all or could be counted as good news...). The bad news: that all my oil paintings (and other's alike) in the last 3+ years have been created somewhat in quite thick layers using the afore mentioned Titanium white mix with 10 to 15% of PW4 mostly on triple primed canvas. Sometimes I've used only Zinc white, because Titanium white does many times nothing else but chalks and opaques and alters the initial hue of every existing, stable pigment on this planet. I agree with all that has been said in the video, as I cannot stop reading the researches of conservators and test alike. But this is quite unfair and frustrating, isn't it? especially if this culprit white mix with other pigments have been used on well primed "acrylic" gessoed canvases unknown some 120 years ago. All oil paints in use today make no chemical but only mechanical bond with the commercially available primed canvases (and panels) in use today. That's another huge factor to consider when considering the issue of paint delamination. So now we have two major problems to consider, or just use pencil and paper that would really last if stored properly.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Perhaps you can glue the smaller paintings onto ACM panels. That will prevent most cracking. Even zinc white might not crack if the painting is mounted on rigid boards.

[@chrisgriffith1573]

Darkening due to "no sunlight" is related not to titanium dioxide, but in the linseed oil itself, the binders. The linseed oil will darken naturally as it dries, or cures, and if there is no residual mucilage, there will only be slight darkening, and it will reverse as you stated with exposure to indirect sunlight or UV light. From what I see here is how the oil's natural state is affecting the pigment, so this title is a bit misleading, however, great info nonetheless!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Thanks Chris, the title is not misleading because it's comparing brands. Nowhere it is stated that it's the pigment that causes the yellowing. But titanium white is the lightest colour we have available, so any darkening is highly detrimental to the painting. Artists with basement studios cannot even send their freshly painted images to clients, as severe yellowing occurs sometimes within a week and a half!

[@LockedPig]

19:48 - boom shakalaka, lolwut? )

[@EulogyfortheAngels]

Small amounts of Zinc seem to be fine (to Gamblin, at least). "Zinc oxide, however, has its limitations - too much zinc makes for a brittle paint film. These issues have been studied in depth over the last 15 years by Marion Mecklenburg and Charlie Tumosa of the Smithsonian Center for Materials Research and Education. Mecklenburg was the first to warn that zinc oxide levels were getting too high in many brands of oil paint. Robert Gamblin visited Marion and Charlie in their lab at the Smithsonian in 2000 and discussed their research. Since then, we have followed their guideline to hold the zinc content below 15%. Zinc levels in our Titanium Zinc White are well below this 15% guideline. This percentage also happens to match well with the levels Henry Levison used in his studies." -Gamblin's website.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Then it might be worth it to read more recent studies made by Golden Paints and Williamsburg. Even a 3.6% zinc was causing the paint to be several times more brittle: justpaint.org/zinc-oxide-reviewing-the-research/

[@ibanez2010]

It's sad about zinc white because it is such a nice white to use on its own. Some of my early illustrations were done using zinc white and I've never been able to reproduce that look with other whites. But yea, I couldn't in good faith use it in a painting I planned to sell. BTW - that wrinkling and yellowing with Williamsburg is exactly what happens when you use PW6 only. It's a conundrum for sure!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Have you tried whites of calcite, zirconium, lead or even the nanoparticles of titanium white? They're quite translucent as well.

[@ibanez2010]

@@nelsonferreirauk Yes I have a good amount of lead white. I love it, but it's obviously not the most cost effective and getting harder to acquire. Have not tried the other whites you mentioned.

[@Gersberms]

This is amazing.

[@barcelonastudio]

GRACIAS!!!

[@kennethaquino8352]

why most acrylic paint brand is pure titianium white while most oil paint have mixed with zinc white?

[@zein9227]

It's an modifier and stabiliser. Oil paints are practically acidic drying oils and metal compounds in the tube. There's bound to be naturally occuring chemical reactions. Titanium forms weak, soft films and stringy paint. The zinc stabilises the mixture and gives it a more favourable texture. Manufacturers also add chalk, marble dust, gypsum, powdered glass, wollastonite and many other additives to help stabilise the paint and produce specific handling properties. The amount of zinc in the tubes is only about 2%, by the way. There are many more factors that influence yellowing and delamination that only the zinc, e.g. bad surface preparation and bad storage conditions.

[@kennethaquino8352]

@@zein9227 i see it explained a lot but some brand of oil paint use pure titanium white like williamsburg,gamblin amd daniel smith

[@lophoflora]

And then what about PW7?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

I believe it to be an excellent pigment.

[@lophoflora]

​@@nelsonferreirauk I have found little information about this pigment, I have two 150ml tubes that I bought a few years ago, at a discount, one is titanium white and the other is zinc white. Both have these pigments on the label: PW7, PW4, in the same order. No titanium.😶 I have a more recent titanium from the same brand, labeled PW6, as it should be. But when I look at the specifications on the brand's website (Cobra, Talens) it appears as having zinc as well. 🤢 A few years ago I did some tests (with exposure to natural light) and the "titanium white" made with PW7, PW4 is the one that yellows less, followed by the titanium from Holbein. Zinc White with PW7, PW4, and Michael Harding White #1 yellow a bit more. I recently purchased a Daniel Smith titanium tube and will be repeating the tests to see how it compares. Thank you.

[@anapardo4827]

philip lazlo painted everything with zinc and its condition is perfect. The difference is that he painted without gesso, directly on the isolated canvas with rabbit glue. The problem is not the zinc, the problem is the acrylic gesso.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Ana, an anedoctal story does not constitute scientific evidence. There are several isotopes of zinc white - the truth is that current knowledge doesn't know yet if they all crack or not. For each painting by Lazlo that didn't crack, there are others that cracked very badly and before acrylic gesso was invented. Also, real copal medium might have prevented zinc white cracking - although this is anedoctal, but even if it was a fact this medium is probably nowhere to be found nowadays, in despite of what some sellers tell you. Please refer to real scientic studies on this matter: justpaint.org/zinc-oxide-reviewing-the-research/ and also www.naturalpigments.com/artist-materials/zinc-white-oil-paint-color/

[@KK-nj8nb]

thank you!

[@kukulkan9209]

thank you very very much for this video!!!

[@StrawberryLegacy]

I really don't trust Daniel Smith's labeling since it was recently revealed they incorrectly label their Primatek watercolors to be made from genuine gemstones AND add fluorescent and absolutely not lightfast components to some of the regular artists watercolors too, with no indication on the label. Who knows what's in this "pure PW6" paint.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Unfortunately this is a major issue with most brands. We need much stronger ASTM rules - but most manufacturers left so I expect things to get even worse.

[@bgodden100]

This is an awesome video

[@SigurdBraathen]

And I thought that acrylic did darken more than oil paints - but this panel seems to indicate otherwise!!!

[@SigurdBraathen]

How does e.g. Daniel Smith oil paint compare to acrylic when dried with a lot of light? ... And does the frequency of light matter?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

That's right, oils darken much more!

[@nelsonferreirauk]

@@SigurdBraathen Yes, frequency matters a lot. But because art is exposed to visible light, what matters the most is the spectrum that we can see as well as UV. Acrylics should darken less than any oil.

[@skrewler]

All titanium white will yellow. Using a lighter drying oil will help. Additives will also help (chalk/marble dust). or juet add 1-2% zinc. pure titanium white has no body and is super long and runny. the zinc helps with that too.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Thanks! It's possible to change the body of the paint without using zinc. The chances of cracking increase by about 7x when even tiny amounts of zinc are mixed into the paint. My video covers in full most brands of Titanium white, some of them yellowed beyhond belief... others still look amazing after a few years in basement conditions.

[@moutserge]

What if white was the problem; titanium white eats some pigments, zinc white causes them to crack, and lead white causes some colors to darken. I think we need to review our way of painting. The Old Masters before the 16th century used them with discernment, and their painting has survived the centuries. In the same way that oil is both the best and the worst enemy of paint: a little is good, too much, and it yellows miserably no matter what you do.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Old Masters didn't have titanium nor zinc whites... thank goodness!

[@wallybeep]

Excellent

[@usamaazizkhan4297]

cant thank you enough

[@janroach1852]

All Titanium White paints have zinc. They do not have to report it if it is listed as an additive, under 5 percent or so. I do not like Titanium white at all. Too chalky. Can still get Lead white here in the US in tubes. You can get Lead in cans in the UK. Any yellowing can be bleached out in the sun.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Indeed we need more transparency in the art materials market. Thankfully that some companies came forward and decided to ban zinc white altogether (unless clearly stated on the label) - such as Natural Pigments, Michael Harding, Williamsburg etc

[@fabrizio483]

Why do you think Zinc White should be banned? Shouldn't people have the right to chose?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

As long as the label says "Using this paint will cause severe cracking and delamination". Otherwise, it's just fooling the public. Unfortunately, the public doesn't know enough about paint chemistry to make informed decisions.

[@RebekkaHay]

Thank you, this is amazing info! 🤩

[@vegasastras9194]

Not a word of the walnut oil effect in all of this.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Walnut oil paints were not available in the UK - and this video was almost exclusively about the brands available here.

[@vegasastras9194]

@@nelsonferreirauk Thanks for the reply.

[@lunalovegoodwitch]

It's an interesting video but it is not in fact the brightest white you can buy there is a white paint that is much whiter than titanium white I think it is called white 2.0 or something like that same as black 2.0 or even black 3.0

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Their black was super desappointing, one of the palest blacks in my studio. Unfortunately marketing trumped reality. I'll soon post a video about this topic, I think you greatly enjoy it.

[@lordofthemound3890]

And, of course Daniel Smith changed their formulation/chemistry in 2023. All of their oils are now water soluble.

[@vladimirelnitskii4448]

The author could easily supply fluorescent lamps, blocks with 36 watt 765 T8 for drying period. Titanium oxide in its pure form mixed only with oil is almost never used in paints because it has disgusting characteristics and a round shape of particles, these particles float up forming frost. And titanium oxide is opaque and therefore completely eats up the colors. Zinc oxide compensates for the lack of transparency. When choosing a paint in the shop, I would choose with the addition of zinc. Titanium with zinc in the good composition perfectly imitate lead white transparrency and it`s transparency in mixtures - I checked - looks the same both with reds and blues. Zinc oxide alone is bad. But the titanium oxide alone is more bad! Also zinc oxide and barium sulphate and chalk are the common components of artistic paints as a filler, so what?

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Even as low as 3% of zinc white will make the paints 10x more brittle - that’s the problem: justpaint.org/zinc-oxide-reviewing-the-research/

[@kathymeyer2028]

Highlight of my day. Thanks.

[@richardnagele5877]

Zinc is great, looks like all your samples have dark yellowed

[@nelsonferreirauk]

Dear Richard, I teach as a visiting lecturer to several universities and art museums. It is very well known amongst the scientific community the damaging effects of zinc white in oils. All restorers know this. If you watch the video in full, you'll see that there are several whites that yellowed in despite of the zinc, and some whites didn't yellow and are zinc free.

[@TheWipal]

"it basically dries overnight" ok so like when's the paint line dropping lmao

[@anapardo4827]

Philip Laszlo pintó toda su obra con blanco zinc y sus cuadros son un ejemplo de consevación....no es mi opinión , es un hecho.

[@nelsonferreirauk]

O branco de zinco tem vários tipos de isótopos. Não sabemos quais estalam ou não, assim como não sabemos quais são utilizados pelos fabricantes. Até sabermos mais sobre este tema, não devemos usar branco de zinco.