Nerd Math Training. kettlebell Reverse ladders vs ladders vs pyramids

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[@johnkenny6516]

Done your reverse ladder C&P for last few months. It was 👍 👌. Started at 16 and finished on 24Kg. Nothing heavier so now started on the doubles nerd math.

[@jasonacraft]

Go John! Nice work

[@kartcraig]

Thank you Mark, your nerd math videos are really helpful. I have only one 16k kettle bell, I have designed a 4days/week workout and also thrown in a push up progression along with it. Reverse ladders are great for C&P, and emom for swings. *Your video explaining volume cycle is a gem.

[@annieni2657]

Love the psychology behind this! Obsessed with your nerd math vids. I watch them over and over to tweak my program and for motivation! Thank you!!!

[@jasonbriggs2251]

Love the Nerd math! I'm 45 and just starting HEMA and with this training I'm faster than people half my age.

[@Living.Fit.]

Great stuff here, listen to Mark!💪

[@utubepunk]

Been waiting for this one! Bring it!

[@Rid3thetig3r]

Great that you want us to succeed, thanks Mark!

[@constantinvasiliev2065]

Always great videos. Thank you VERY much!

[@philstyles5384]

Now that is a very magnetic explanation. BRAVO !

[@lisas1175]

Love your content and your shirt! 💪🏼

[@UBO58]

Thank you very much, Mark! As always, brilliant thinking and explanation. You convinced me again.

[@johngrattan6343]

As always excellent advice. It works.

[@tomeucollvaquer7608]

Another great video. You are an excellent instructor.

[@andygamble5932]

Very good and well explained

[@RuntheBell]

you just improved my training programming... again!

[@vicsophios5892]

Thanks Mark even knowing these training techniques I’ve never really thought much about them till now.

[@cucciafr68]

Pre-covid, my friend judo training partner) would run competition style classes for bjj. A lot of people hated it. He asked me if it was too hard and I told him it was like a medium level judo class. I think they just weren't used to doing as much stand up work.

[@AndrewPotterton]

Totally agree and totally brilliant. Simple and brilliant.

[@sallywarner6023]

I like your way of thinking.

[@maxfaubus3116]

At 50 years old and a lot of miles, I like your thinking. Succeed!!!! Thanks for the videos.

[@shawndidstuffbeforehehadki806]

This is a phenomenal add on to your earlier content. Thank you. It's spring(ish) here, so I've been hittin' the sandbag routine hard. Any chance for some follow-up sandbag videos?

[@tr-vh3ec]

thank you so much sir, I learned so much from your channel

[@mauricelovell7173]

Learn to Succeed, My coach preaches the same principles. We do Reverse Ladders all the time!!!! Great Job Mark

[@dempsexy]

You did a video about working around failure for volume training, could you do a video for working around failure for reverse ladders? That would be great.

[@olivercole1]

Holy crap I love this

[@olivercole1]

The time management and psychological aspects are awesome. I never would’ve even considered that latter part.

[@whogivesashitasshole]

@@olivercole1 it’s an amazing feeling being able to trick your brain into doing what you want. Very helpful for pushing past perceived limitations.

[@a.lame.username.]

@@olivercole1 the psychology of winning at training, everytime!...is a little epiphany for me.

[@BLuining1]

These aren’t just training tips; it’s a lesson for life!

[@nonobebert7646]

The time used for each ladder also depends on the movements you do.

[@jokergreeting]

I like the goal: to get people to achieve not weed them out.

[@MarkWildman]

I like it too

[@affl1ctor]

Hey Mark, your content is getting more better. 😉 In one of your last videos you said that you never want to have anyone repeat a workout. How do you re-enter the nerd math after illness or injury when there is no working around the bodily malefunction?

[@rcg5317]

I never thought of the Skinnerian effect on my mentality, but I like the concept. I also can treat the last seat as my rush to the target and can use that set to evaluate my fitness. Can I do the last set with energy and form? Then can I go to my next activity and be effective. Your last sentence was brilliant.

[@eddieokeefe5826]

coming soon from Mark Wildman (Rucking)

[@warrenellis1023]

I consider Pavel Tsatsouline’s work as gospel. However. I’ve done ROP many times and I hate traditional ladders. I’ve often repurposed the workload as sets and reps (123x3/3x6) OR done a version of reverse ladders. Thanks for explaining and validating the option.

[@tbx59]

Reverse Ladder is a great way to learn a new skill and and a new weight at a skill you already have.

[@mikemalcovich]

@markwildman great stuff, I have really studied the videos and I think I have a solid foundational understanding of programming with the various apparatus (kB, clubs, mace etc). The waves of training (heavy/light etc) took a while to get used but it’s awesome. My question is can we see a video on MACE order of operations?

[@michaelsenft3608]

This is an excellent protocol - I used it a few months ago when Mark introduced it. I have recently moved on to Mark’s double kettlebell protocol of light (5 reps)/medium (4) / and heavy (3 reps) for ascending number of sets each week, starting at 3 sets and working toward 10 sets on each of the three days. This seems more strength and mass building than the reverse pyramid, but I am lucky to have kb pairs all the way up to 48kg. I will let you know when I run through all of them! 🤣

[@ossian1977]

can you link the video exactly? I think I am getting close to that threshold

[@michaelsenft3608]

It is called Double Clean and Press Double Front Squat Part 2. It was two weeks ago. Great and easy to implement

[@mattparsons868]

Can you explain how to set up a ladder workout? Ie types of kettle bell exercises

[@laaronml]

Great shirt

[@johnkenny6516]

Hi @Mark wildman. Heres something to try. "DIMINISHING ABILITY" I tried it and it was cruel in a good way. Your usual nerd math for C&P ....24Kg, 5/5 4/4 3/3 2/2 1/1 but Don't stop, drop bells then repeat with 16KG. Its brutal. If after that you repeat with 8kg it is immense. You really need to drop by 8kg between each as there is no way you could repeat with less of a dropif you do 24Kg 16th 8kg thats 7.5 minutes without stopping.

[@MarkWildman]

Cool idea

[@johnkenny6516]

@@MarkWildman only thing is, after 2 sets that was me spent for 3 days. Might try 20kg 16KG 12kg next time and only once a week as a test 😅

[@heckl0r]

@@johnkenny6516 and there is the rub! That's 3 days out of training / other sport that you would want to be doing. Fascinating for the mentalists though! 😂

[@atosmanhaleksi]

Thank you sir for this excellent idea of reverse ladders. I was easily able to pull (3, 2, 1)x10 clean and jerk with 16kg! Reverse ladder make¨s it mentally easier and reps stay explosive without fatique. Great advice!

[@DavyLaStrange]

Another arrow in the quiver!

[@eathonmaritz404]

Hi Mark. Awesome videos with more insight into programming. Question: When you generally do reverse ladders, what do your rest periods look like, and do you ever push beyond 10 sets? Thanks!

[@afruchter]

I asked the same question and was told the goal is not to rest. Really??

[@jackmcqueen979]

Mark Wildman. The Never Ending Story that I hope never ends. Reverse ladders👍

[@heckl0r]

3-2-1 ladders are a good recommendation when stepping up the weight. I've moved to using a 24kg for ~100 reps, but doing 5,4,3,2,1 and it's definitely hard! I'll see if the smaller sets help. Oh & I thought we were still aiming for the magic 200 rep number for C&P rather than 150. No wonder I'm tired all the time 😂

[@a.lame.username.]

Got it!

[@mauricelovell7173]

Nerd Math is the bomb!!!!

[@adriangburgos8205]

What do you think about the use of belts for kettlebell (I see them all the time in kt sport). Also for people who do doubles. Do you recommend them? no? better just get good form instead of relying on them to not hurt yourself? Only for super heavyweights?

[@arthurvrancken5000]

Hey Mark, I am a runner (3 - 4 times a week) and to avoid injuries I would do strength training for my legs 2 - 3 times a week. What exercises would be best to do for this? I was thinking squats and swings? For my upper body I have to do push ups, pull ups and dips, so I would like not to overload them. I also do core a few times a week.

[@oceaniccurrents]

Same question 🙋🏼‍♀️

[@jaqcorsiga2626]

Hi! I saw in one of your older videos of you talking about an app..is this out already? Hope you have it also available for android. Thanks!

[@andy3410]

PURE AWESOMENESS! Mark, can you compare and contrast why reverse ladders instead of EMOM volume cycles though? I use the emom vc’s for EVERYTHING, just make the reps much higher for clubs. My thoughts/feeling is that the first “easy” sets are a good movement specific warmup and as the cycle goes on, the last cpl are the “money” sets? Am I way off here in this thinking of using them for everything, including running?

[@ArthurClune]

Mark did some videos on this. See is "basic breakdown of thought process" video in the Nerd Math playlist

[@andy3410]

@@ArthurClune I’ve watched the entire playlist MANY TIMES. Love it! That specific video references “rates” and how the numbers won’t line up... TGU vs swings for example. I guess a better way to word my question is “even though the rates are different, why not use emom volume cycles for everything?” I understand that reverse ladders are getting easier as time goes on, but for time’s sake, won’t more time be spent on reverse ladder warmups, vs the first cpl sets of a v cycle being the warmup saving time? Naturally as the weight goes up and the neurological demand increases so must the rest times. So EOMOM maybe or every 3rd minute. As a basic concept tho the volume cycle stays the same. I was hoping that Mark could go more in depth with why or how he knows when to change format from basic volume cycles to reverse ladders or TUT instead of high rep v cycles? It’s diving into the minutiae a bit, and probably isn’t ultra important, I just find programming/problem solving FASCINATING.... I know it’s hard to cram all his knowledge into a 10 min video. HOPING SOMEONE CAN CONVINCE HIM TO DO A LECTURE SERIES OF VIDEOS???? That would be INSANELY AWESOME!!!

[@gilbertgurney4898]

Are you saying the warm up is the issue. Regardless of weather you do ladders or EMOM you start with a 10min warm up. So I don't understand that part of your statement. Are you saying you do a 10min warm up and then another 10min warm up of lift specific say C+P on C+P day ? Are you doing 20min warm up.

[@andy3410]

@@gilbertgurney4898 no. I’m saying that while I do a general warmup, I also prefer to “get into a movement “ before goin balls out as I have A LOT of past injuries, hernia, broken rib cage, many screws in my bones, etc. The list is quite long. The thing that confuses me, kind of, is that the reverse ladders put the “largest” workload first, so to speak? My original question was looking for basically anyone’s opinions on why not use straight volume cycles for everything and let the fatigue accumulate over the course of the cycle? Or why not use reverse ladders for everything and let the exercise get easier? While the rates do differ, WHAT specifically determines the overall strategy choice? Again, it’s probably such a tiny detail? Maybe? As long as the training progressively gets harder one can get better. Although I tend to think that with unilateral loading/rotational training, it becomes more important to prepare your body for the quite “non typical” demands your placing on it? And I only mean non typical in reference to normal gym bro exercises. Life is off center AND rotational but I’m rambling now😂

[@edoethalesmo]

Nice t-shirt

[@MarkWildman]

Blackscout

[@yetieddy3379]

Hello Mark, how many times should I train kettlebells (simple and sinister) a week with going to Judo 5-6x a week? EDIT: I’m 19 by the way and I just started a month ago.

[@cucciafr68]

Planning all my workouts with time on the mats is a big issue I have, now that I'm vaccinated and can train more. A big part is just the time it consumes. Though I did try a heavy clean and press reverse ladder workout after judo and realized I couldn't finish it, so it's good to plan a lower set of weights for those days. I try to do my club work on the days of judo or bjj or even light weight kettlebell TuT movements. The other problem is when to do the workout, before or after judo. You'll have to decide what works best for you. In my case I'd rather be at full strength for judo whereas I can be a bit more tired when doing bjj (because it's easier on the body). Of course for me my only judo night I'm mostly just teaching, so it doesn't demand as much energy as if I was participating. 5-6 judo sessions a week is definitely a lot, keep up the work.

[@proverbalizer]

Pyramids are good because they have a built in easy warm up, and once they get hard at the peak you get to go back down

[@MarkWildman]

very true

[@antonipoblocki]

Hi Mark! What would the progression for reverse ladder look like? Is it starting from 3 sets of 3 rungs and adding a higher rung each workout/ adding an additional set or something different?

[@KFVR91]

He has a good video on this in the nerd math series. Essentially you add sets until you get to 5 sets then you add a rung, start back at 2 sets and repeat.

[@antonipoblocki]

@@KFVR91 Thanks I'll check it out

[@edmond0073]

Mark I can do the 4 3 2 1 for ladder with the 20kg KB just fine and now I'm trying the 24kg one and in that one I can only go to 2 1 ladder. Should I drop down to that ladder to stick with the 24kg weight or stay on the 20kg one for C&P ? I can do 8 sets with 4321 ladder with 20kg just fine.

[@MarkWildman]

Alternate between the 2 weights and the 2 strategies

[@namenloss]

A question regarding planning for clean and press: I am doing 5 x 5-4-3-2-1 with 16k for light days and 5 x 3-2-1 with 20k for heavy days. Considering the total volume should be at least double for light days, how would I progress those while also progressing the heavy days? Go to 6 sets on light days, add a set of 6 reps on light days or? And then keep adding on light days until heavy days become 5x5? I probably have also done something wrong with the wave thing math for light/ heavy but haven’t quite completely figured that out yet. :). Thanks for all your awesome content!

[@DC124]

I was thinking about this earlier. I think Mark recommends having 3 bells. If you have a 24k bell that would become your new heavy, while the 20kg bell would become your light bell. However, as you are only on your 5th round of the 20kg you may have to add some additional sets if you are not comfortable with more weight yet.

[@namenloss]

@@DC124 Yeah, I have been adding sets. However, you can end up with some very long sets, which can be an issue both from an available time perspective and from an "Getting actual gains" perspective (really long lighter sets ends up fatiguing the muscles to a point where gains become difficult). So I am also goinbg the way of getting heavier weights to make the heavy light :)

[@Liam1991]

What about circuit training? So the way I do it, I do an X amount of reps of each exercise, have a rest, then repeat it as many times as I can.

[@Memo_KBE]

If your going into a second set of 5-4-3-2-1, are you resting in between? Or going strait into it without putting the weight down?

[@steelmacetobster]

Rest in between, I guess 60 to 90 seconds

[@Arthax83]

Can someone (Mark?) explain the rest periods between ladders? If 5-4-3-2-1 is E4MO4M, what EMOM should be used during lower rungs 4-3-2-1 or 3-2-1?

[@exploreTheWilds]

I do one minute between sets. I’m only timing the rest period.

[@jasonacraft]

It’s a variable, depending on where you’re at in your training cycle. light weight (50-70% max) and you’re going for high ladders (high vol, a 5 or 6 ladder, 1-3 sets) focusing on stabilization and endurance, rest times are up to 90s between sets. Hypertrophy is 60s, at intermediate weights (70-85%) (4-5 ladder, 3-5 sets). Max strength at heavy weights (85-100%) is 3-5min rest (2-3 ladder,4-6 sets). I’m not Mark, but I did open the text book to make sure I got these right. Hope it helps.

[@afruchter]

I was looking for similar rest info. On one hand what you said makes sense, on the other hand, rest should be determined by the time needed to do the set, vs the intensity of the set. No?

[@Korealignments]

If you hit the 150 reps on the reverse ladder (with the c&p, for example) is that when you bump the weight? I'm at 180 reps right now and was going to bump weight when I hit 200.

[@MarkWildman]

You can bump the weight anytime

[@afruchter]

How do you handle/determine the rest period as your sets get longer? I do EMOMS and the sets are 30 sec work/30 sec rest..Example, how long would you rest if the ladder takes 60 seconds? Thanks

[@MarkWildman]

the goal is eventually no rest, but its determined by the goals of your program

[@imcg9668]

Any thoughts on farmer walks?

[@MarkWildman]

They require a lot of space

[@scottengh1175]

Do them on the stairs, up and down

[@ninjamaster7724]

Why do people have to complicate workouts?

[@antonomaseapophasis5142]

1-2-3-3-2-1 would be a mastaba.

[@MarkWildman]

That is a more accurate description

[@vicentepithanburzlaff7080]

what about reverse pyramids (e.g.:3-2-1-2-3) ? I've been doing clean & presses 5-4-3-2-1 with 24kg and 1-2-3 with a 32kg kb. It's seems to be the best iteration of this method yet.

[@davidsopher6871]

Don't tread on my ladders

[@utubepunk]

Don't ladder my treads!

[@orestisnalmpantis]

Metallica Black Album T shirt master? I couldnt imagine you can get any more cooler

[@ctowen5222]

Noli me calcare

[@reinisrunkulis2547]

4:23 Im an elitist. If you democratize something an let mediocre/regular people enter, instead of demanding excelence, you ultimately destroy the thing you loved and tried to share with others.

[@davidfillary]

I agree with a preference for reverse ladders, but I don't see how pyramids will take longer. If 5 is the max reps of the top set, then a single pyramid will be 25 reps, so it will only take 3 sets to reach the same volume as 5 sets with reverse pyramids. So time wise, there would be very little difference.

[@BigHat83]

I like pyramids as a single set idea.... Maxing out at 25 reps/side for strength or 49 reps for endurance.