NERF BAT Is Swinging! BM, HPala, Pres, It's a Massacre! | Balance Tuning Changes

[@Izenhart]

Due to technical errors of my own doing, today you'll be accompanied by TinyIzen!

[@NordMT2]

its not tiny, its average and u should be proud of it my friend!

[@thundergodd6086]

" Mage is contractually obligated by Blizzard to be OP." Izen cracks me up. 😆🤣

[@sebastienpoirier40]

And I support this contract

[@googleaccount2821]

Wow. Now BM Hunter will only be brought to Delves.

[@Jenkyllllls]

Not even, your better off to just not bring one.

[@TheKozdgaf]

Good fuck brain dead bm hunters make mm good fuck people that need bm to be relevant in wow go play minecraft

[@Diphyidae]

I thought Brann was a MM

[@dielotte]

I wonder who is still playing Hunter at all, I’ve reroll’ed to FoM 🎉

[@surreal_3635]

Izen, you've made the same error Blizzard have re: data on holy paladins. You need to look at H Pal on each individual raid fight rankings on mythic to see why the overall H Pal raid metric is misleading. It's mostly Rashanan carrying them hard because the raid is fully stacked and dawnlight healing isn't reduced beyond 5 targets currently (it's bugged). They are good, or mid to awful for the other fights. Light of the Martyr, despite being an EHPS loss due to the heal absorb it creates (which logs dont currently count), is also buffing logs artificially. This nerf is not warranted, and will further hurt them in m+ where they are, with druids, the lowest represented healers in the top 100 right now.

[@hugob8193]

He doesn't care, he just needed to rant about holy paladin and he's so happy about this nerf he forgot to check actual numbers. Without Rasha'nan, Hpal would one of if not the lowest hps healer in the raid. The nerf is unjustified and ridiculous, nerf dawnlight and buff holy shock to compensate I don't know, but this nerf will juste make Hpal the worst healer in both Raid and m+

[@super73glasgow]

But he played a holy paladin when they were meta last expansion when it suited him.

[@jozefkorcek2192]

He either doesn´t know or doesn´t care, both things make him a bit of a clown.

[@hugob8193]

Nerf reverted, thank god someone like Izen isnt doing the balance in this game

[@JayTheRed8]

Imagine seeing the data for BM Hunter and thinking they needed nerfing... who the f*ck makes these decisions xD its absolutely insane.

[@SmugHomura]

I think it's important to keep in mind that most BM hunters will be a lot closer to the DPS limit than most other classes due to their limitless mobility and ease of play. A perfectly played BM hunter SHOULD be middle of the dps rankings. Bm should really never be allowed to be the best since it's so easy. Specs that are more limited will have a much harder time realizing their full potential because boss mechanics or player skill gets in their way and as such, simulations don't always paint an accurate picture either. Not saying this necessarily applies to every case, but it is important to keep in mind imo.

[@dmtuan]

‘Mage is oblogated to be OP every expansion’ 😂.. ohm soooo true! 20 years of wow..

[@AmanitaMuscarias]

It's not weird that resto druid is getting buffs. They have been dead last hps in raid & lowest/second lowest popularity in keys. Mystery solved!

[@morgenmuffel5747]

They just made BM useless in all forms of group content. They were already dead in M+ and any AoE raid fight, and now Blizz thought let’s kill their only area of strength. What an utter joke

[@SmugHomura]

They are not dead in M+, get over yourself. I play with a BM hunter that rips plenty of other players to shreds by like a 10% to 20% overall dmg difference at the end of the dungeon on +9 keys. The differences in this game's balance are honestly so small that player skill will destroy any imbalance in the game by a coutnry mile. There's never been a genuine 30% difference between top and bottom spec or whatever.

[@morgenmuffel5747]

@@SmugHomura You’re either lying or are playing with really bad dps. I’ll take my experience, the sims that show BM is more than 40% behind MM on AoE, all the M+ data on Archon, and the opinions of the hunter guide authors over some random in the YT comment section

[@SmugHomura]

@@morgenmuffel5747 What M+ data on Archon? I open the top log for BM hunters and it's literally someone who equals a WW and a Ret paladin in dps. I go to warcraft logs, checkout the top hunters like Onetrickz, Yunyu, Hunteracka, and Purrtemis and see that they're doing absolutely fine, regularly beat other classes, and aren't off by a huge margin even if they're bottom dps. "the sims that show BM is more than 40% behind MM on AoE" This just shows me that you completely didn't understand what I originally said about how sims for BM are misleading. Again, the point of BM is that the dps ceiling is very consistent which means you have a huge edge over classes that have more conditional dps. If everyone players perfectly, BM will look bad. But everybody doesn't always play perfectly or has the perfect scenario, which is where BM shines. Lastly, I'm not saying BM couldn't use some buffs. They obviously could use some. But the spec is not 'dead' or 'useless'. Generally only bad or ignorant players use that language because they're too afflicted by tierlist brainrot.

[@ThunderNif]

I like Izen but I think looking at only Mythic for the Hpal nerf is a little short sighted. I get that most people only care about how things perform in mythic but Hpal is already middle to lower half on Heroic. There's a huge population of players that are gonna be hurt by this nerf that aren't being considered.

[@MisterDecent]

I agree. HPal is being tuned according to the top 1% of players and not according to the average which is very poor tuning mentality.

[@okkipooky8612]

What are you guys even talking about…everything is always balanced around its max potential in the hands of a professional and not how it does in the hands of the avg joe…regardless of real life or in the game. That has always been true…how do you think for example cars are tested to their absolute limit? In all aspects..from safety to track performance…they don’t walk down the street and have a random normal person and let them do their tests…

[@surreal_3635]

@ThunderNif actually he's looking at misleading mythic overall stats.. if you look at individual fights, it's a totally different story, and hpal ranges from decent to garbage. Rashanan mythic is making them look far better than they are due to dawnlight being bugged and not falling off past 5 targets and on rashanan the whole raid is stacked the whole fight.

[@ThunderNif]

@@okkipooky8612 Can't tell if trolling or not, but if not, you can't pilot a Holy Paladin at 100mph on a race track or into a load of school children in a cross walk. You're comparing apples to rocket science here. Honestly just a dumb take. Also as stated above by others, the data shown isn't even telling the whole story.

[@okkipooky8612]

@@ThunderNif your complaining because you want them to balance a spec around middle of the road or worse players skill wise…when it should be balanced around it’s absolute best potential (which is under the hands of the pros)…we ALL follow what is best for X spec performance wise thanks to the PRO’s not the middle of the pack avg joes. Cmon now.

[@magiklok]

When will blizzard learn we don't just want flat healing buff as rdruid, we want gameplay changes and to stop feeling like a spot healing hpally 😢

[@mikecurran7898]

Why the hate for BM hunters lol there dmg was not all that great

[@jhk9626]

Hpal nerf is super hindsighted. It only has a big hps in meters and logs due to lotm absorb shield being deceivingly included in hps. Idno if blizz even knows what its doing. Most hpals playing in difficult content dont even take lotm because it burdens the teams mana. Cmon

[@TheKozdgaf]

@@jhk9626 see that's where you are wrong ...remember disc priest exists

[@jhk9626]

@TheKozdgaf i fail to understand how I am wrong. If ur implying that hpal is superior to disc in a similar role, I think YOU are wrong in your approach. If disc is weak they should give it buffs to make it viable instead of nerfing an already NOT OP class.

[@atalbot858]

Congrats Blizz. You killed BM Hunter. It was already useless in keys but now it’s useless in raid. Truly mind boggling how stupid these devs are.

[@zometthecomet]

DEI hires and we are surprised at their incompetency ?

[@TheKozdgaf]

You must only lfr noob

[@MostlyFish21]

​@@zometthecomet lol their headquarters is in California and we know how that state rolls

[@JS-skankhunt42]

Just wait 11.0.5 in 2 weeks before crying they are getting huges buffs there

[@morgenmuffel5747]

@@TheKozdgafAnd you obviously have no idea what you are talking about

[@mariomarques775]

Theres no way they nerfed hunter. How can you kill whats already dead?

[@MeDusnik]

12:23 did you lost reaid spot to holy paladin, or why so much hate bro?:D Like not everyone is playing 20 years, right now for ppl who play 2-3 years there is not point to play hpally, coz they are going to be bad in terms of hps, u just bring retry for aura and it's done, in m+ they are going to fall to F tier, in pvp they are being there for like two years already, what are even talking about?:D

[@shianova]

The BM hunter issue shows the peak of Blizzard's devs incompetence

[@sharkstaint1373]

blizzard did some insane balance on classes this season wdym , sure there is some specs that need more balance , but just cause bm is getting nerfed slightly a little , doesnt mean they are doin something wrong , just go look at fire mages now doin insane dmg in keys , same goes for people who said destro lock was so dog , now its being picked in rwf , people are so biased in trying stuff and goes with the tier lists , you can't balance all classes but just adding % numbers and think " if it was me i would" you have to be very careful with buffs cause it can lead to the spec being broken and need nerfs again.

[@shianova]

@@sharkstaint1373 I hope you're joking, there was no reason to nerf BM in the only thing it had going for it. Of course fire mage got buffed it's a mage spec and they will always be on top. How is the nerf to BM warranted when it already had the worst AOE and now will just be bad in everything, where in their mind was this a good change to push out on live. This is one of the worst decision I have ever seen them make in my whole time playing this game and it's not even an understatement

[@sharkstaint1373]

@@shianova did u see the warcraft logs on raid bosses ? i think your the one clueless here bud wdym bad at everything ? bm hunters competing with arcane mages and enhanc shamans on raid bosses rn , blizzard don't nerf cause you think they are good or bad , they see warcraft logs and nerf depending on raid aoe fights and single target fights , if u wanna give opinions you should do some fact checks before , not start venting cause you like your class , not to mention in 10.5 they are getting some isnane buffs , so whats your point here ? make them god tier in two weeks when 20 anniversary drops like fury warriors was on season 1 release ? your being silly bud.

[@shianova]

@@sharkstaint1373 I feel like you're trolling at this point... Did you read what I wrote or you just spinning your own narrative? I said THE ONLY THING THEY ARE GOOD AT was ST and that only because they where the target for PI. Without PI they are nowhere near top ST dps in raids. Get your facts straight buddy jesus christ, the 11.0.5 rework will not be as op as you're making it to be, go read the forums a bit and stop looking at logs that you don't seem to understand

[@sharkstaint1373]

@@shianova no need ro argue any further bud , you just brought the pi out of random inexisting stats , i had stats aura on logs with bloodlust buffs only , no pi insluded and bm was first on ovinax even on aoe trash mobs , anyway , conclusion is blizzard don't nerf classes for no reason , also if you go to any other mmo genre , you'll find unbalanced classes even on horizontal progression where no gear scaling matter , you can't have everything balanced or good , it is what it is.

[@Rburns1993]

The opening math for evoker was slightly off. It didn't account for Engulf being buffed as whole by 20%. The actual HPS loss is then 14.2% . Then the new median lands at 1.07m HPS. Placing them in the middle of the pack.

[@lolfu6492]

im happy to see blizzard only made one healer viable now for high end mythic+ Well done idiots.

[@SmugHomura]

You know that every healer has timed a +12 by now, and that the limit of keys is +13 now right? So what are you even talking about lmao. It's always the most ignorant people calling others idiots...

[@lolfu6492]

@@SmugHomura that’s like 5 teams that high idiot. How about you take a look again. Most people are hard stuck at +11. Now take ur candy ass back to lfr

[@lolfu6492]

@@SmugHomura you acting like everybody and their mother can do 13's when theres only like 50 teams. and on those 50 teams 45 happend to be running with Rshaman. moron.

[@thundergodd6086]

WTF??? First Izen spits on Holy Pally, saying it can get deleted for all he cares and then he spends literally only 25 seconds talking about ret and the buff we received??? HAH! Izen's a paladin hater.

[@reynaldoreyes9593]

He hates mages even more

[@balbutokaiage1667]

I only have one thing to say about this and it’s really important. Buff Holy Priest in m+!

[@ronaldslocmelis1553]

whats with te Holy Paladin hate lol ????

[@dyingearth]

He lost his raid spot to many HPally.

[@Frawt]

The conclusion we can all draw from this balance tuning is that mages need buffs. I think like a 50% aura buff to all of their specs should maybe be enough for those poor, down-trodden blue men.

[@VersatileSpace]

I always look forward to this data-driven and mathematical analysis on the buffs and nerfs. thanks for this!

[@LeoSpaceman2012]

His HPal comments were not just data driven lol

[@dflowers6771]

im here to see the raging hpaladin comments 🍿

[@kanor13]

As a raging hpal, me too

[@peterappeldoorn6695]

I have 0 confidence that Blizz will fix the BM hunter/hunter problems in the rework coming with patch 11.0.5. 100% sure they will fuck it up. If hunters will be good after that patch we will get nerfed to the ground in a few weeks.

[@CedricDur]

Wasn't Barbed Shot also increased by 100%? Ther were a series of accumulative patches in the PTR before the release and this is focusing on the data of live to the last PTR patch. And it's like 'BM only got 10% AoE buff in exchange for the basilisk nerf' while ignoring all the AoE buffs that Dark Ranger got. Weird. I know I'm not 100% following the patch cycles but it seems to look at the nerfs in a vacuum.

[@Aireez24]

you 4got about the Black Arrow dot..as well as the weapon enchant dot.

[@Zerg777]

Pretty sad that now flameshaper will not be played at all. A bit to harsh nerf i think

[@SBqwerty]

Worthy of note: outlaw got a slight nerf in favor or another buff, and these buffs are just reverting the original nerf

[@5151-l4e]

so stupid..

[@Despond]

They are clueless. It's a circus now.

[@perkulant4629]

Wish blizz would grant me a kick as a disc priest.

[@Cheeky_Bandit]

Wild that they took away the only reason to play flame shaper lol. Not a single Dev uses it for anything over scale commander and now Pres has no reason to use it either. The reason they didn't nerf Pres evoker damage is because fire breath talent lets it heal based off the damage it does so it would be a double nerf for no reason.

[@Simonenepoteandre]

why you dont speak about the buff of retri?

[@joyo1994]

He does speak about the templar buff

[@Simonenepoteandre]

@@joyo1994 where?

[@joyo1994]

@@Simonenepoteandre 18:15 minute

[@Simonenepoteandre]

@@joyo1994 thx i miss that part, that remain quite inconsistent btw.

[@joyo1994]

@@Simonenepoteandre What is?

[@ozmcsween]

they're called blizzard, how can they make the class with that spell bad

[@Fortius247]

Frostfire as frost was already pretty decent in aoe, more consistent and bursty than Spellslinger relying on orb procs

[@DaMeLoFeLo]

But why does chronowarden need nerfs at all? We just around the top we not clearing everyone easily like flameshaper

[@markh4604]

Mage buffs XDXD im dead

[@sebastian6843]

the flameshaper nerv might not even be killing that hero talent - this ability you shown dealing almost 40% healing has a shit ton of overhealing as well right now - so with 50% nerf its possible it still almost fills up healthbars and the nerf isnt even a problem

[@ticien1]

welcome to how warriors feel and you all laughed

[@crandor1398]

9:17 Well actually they need to be buffed in m+, instead of being nerfed and secondly they ARE the weakest m+ healers right now statistically, since they got the lowest rating on max and it is the only healer spec that didn't manage to time a +13 key yet with the nerf making it even worse. They are still kinda popular since they are rly fun imho, but for high end pushing they are just too weak.

[@MrPFMneto]

Izen's opinion is never to be taken seriously, guys. You should know that by now lol

[@mizab70]

Can't wait until both of fire mage hero talents are the best dps.

[@zak8991]

Ive been maining Rdruid since the beginning of DF. The annoying part of how Rdruid heals atm is that it relies more heavily on regrowth than your actual hots to do healing. Our hots are what we want to be buffed to make it that good sustained healer again. Because right now it just feels like your hots are there for mastery stacks so that regrowth cant top people off. Id rather have regrowth nerfed and hots buffed in compensation. If I wanted to be a spot healer I would play hpriest/hpal

[@thomasr.7398]

I'm a Multi-CE-hpal main and the outcry of hpals is NOT regarding our raid performance. The nerf is absolutely fine there. The nerf is not fine (as is the lack of nerfs to rsham or buffs to the other healers) in regards of m+. in high keys atm there is a 78% rshaman participation atm. Blizzard needs to start of balancing raid and m+ seperately imo. It's like back in the old days when we didnt have seperate pve and pvp tuning....

[@surreal_3635]

@thomasr.7398 to be fair if you look at individual fights, hpal isn't broken in mythic raid fights, just some (rashanan). It's dawnlight being bugged and lotm being a useless log fluff talent.

[@thomasr.7398]

@@surreal_3635 yep.thats what im saying. on the more spread out fights, hpal falls off immediately and its irritating to get nerfed based on what? rashanan the kinda fall over 4th boss? on Ovinax pally is almost unplayable when you dont want to grief ur team^^ I mean we wont get the answer. PS: lotm was fixed.

[@TheRabbit68]

Okay so the balance team is also confirmed to be DEI hires at this point.

[@infragtes7351]

Shadow needs more buffs

[@shuvareck]

But chronowarden isnt op, when we check logs of chronowarden, he is a bit below both Holy priest, lightsmith and totemic. And on the same level as herold, conduit and voidweaver.

[@Youtubestolemyname99999]

Thanks

[@mg4mg281]

Thx ^^

[@denizzard]

“That’s where they go - In the bin” 😂😂

[@XDES96]

certified 1,5k rio holy paladin

[@christmasham4312]

somebody hates HP :p

[@SamCastaneda87]

The consume flame nerf, as big as it looks being at 50% if you take into account that it's doing A LOT of overhealing (from the log you show is 60% overhealing) then in terms of how much the nerf will actually account for it's probably a lot less that what the aparent 50% would indicate so I think the HPS loss should be more like 12%ish and not the actual 20% that its menctioned here.. So imo while it is a big nerf I think it's actually not enough and will still be ahead of every other spec except (maybe) Chronowarden Evoker lol.

[@MrHardpal]

This dude talking and not understanding shit on specs... VDH is one of the best tanks actually... Saying it's like a dk... Never been so wrong. Where are the dk in high keys... They get OS. VDH are on the top meta

[@mariomarques775]

My friend. Mobility is very important in high end keys. Simplicity in the spec is even more important. On top of that, cc and utility is even more important. Bdk is much harder to master than vdh.

[@faldrya3057]

I just resubbed for Fire mage

[@Wickk7]

This is why i hate this game so much, just a constant rerollfest to be able to feel powerfull or usefull or even being taken into groups for m+ and raid... rip holypala

[@jesperandersen8509]

Ridiculous how they keep nerfing fury and DKs and ret pala etc is left untouched... They have better cds than warriors, they are as or more durable than warriors and they have better utility.. and yet blizz keeps nerfing warriors... makes no sense..

[@Templar1337-d9e]

The fuck are you yapping , ret is mid at best and blizzard shitting on warriors has nothing to do with ret. Funny you do not mention enhance instead of ret.

[@MostlyFish21]

Sippin on mud to ease the pain 😔

[@godlike69r]

you forgot about sin rogue!

[@Despond]

They are so out of touch. Look @ their excessive fury nerfs, a spec that already had a bad 4pc, mediocre single target, lower utility of most other options, so they nerf furys only strength their burst AOE, then after 2 nerfs, they are going 2 more rounds but reducing target caps which is basically going to end fury. They added a talent to BM and now apparently all balance is based around one talent. A spec that's only worth using for single target raid boss fight and it's once great aoe sustain and burst now one of the worst... but let's nerf it. Then look @ holy paladin nerfs while you see the statistics on shamans... they have no clue whatsoever in all the years of WOW we are under some of the worst times for balancing decisions.

[@RisenPhoenix69]

these are HUGE buffs to AC hpally! I love it

[@XDES96]

nope still dogshit and overheal

[@sqly3129]

Who the fuck in their right mind would play that dogshit lmao

[@nikolastegnjaic7928]

why everyone hating aldrachi? i only play aldrachi and have so much fun playing it and pull some big big dps. Happy they getting buffed

[@Uncreatedd]

The only possible way to enjoy aldrachi is to play it completly wrong or by being on meth

[@a.s9142]

People should stop overreacting so much. The devs are more active than ever before, dishing out balance changes every week, which is actually an insane improvement over the last few expansions where we had same meta for 12 months in a row. If they nerf something too much, they will likely buff it to compensate sometime soon.

[@Despond]

But they haven't BM needed buffs not nerfs. Bad in PVP and m+, has one of the worst cleave burst, was only good for single target raid bosses and they want to nerf that. Warriors got gutted multiple times, even when fury 4pc is one of the worst, one of the worst utility in m+, mediocre single target, they only brought a niche of huge AOE burst (not sustain), and blizzard nerfed that twice and now want to reduce the TARGET cap which is the graveyard fury. Rogues were nerfed like 1-2 months ago and they are now buffing them the near same amount they nerfed and buffing a talent no-one uses. THey have no clue anymore. They are out of touch.

[@a.s9142]

@@Despond The balance changes make perfect sense from a Raid perspective. It's true that M+ suffers for it right now, but nobody is seriously pushing keys at this time when we are far from ilvl cap. I imagine once the hall of fame for raid is closed and we get near TGP date, they will shift balance tuning towards m+ instead. Highest keys will not be done until people are near 636 anyway, so they have a lot of time to let people finish the raid and figure out what they want to do with M+ balance. From a game dev perspective, this is actually pretty smart thing to do - balance for raid early in the season, and shift to balancing to m+ later on when raid becomes less relevant and people start hitting ilvl cap. :)

[@mg4mg281]

Taktless x D

[@stoopidyoutubehandle]

Cat druid casually bites for 2M. Blizz: -Awww isn’t that cute! Affliction lock haunt hits 2.5 M Blizz: It is hollow’s End after all! Flameshaper lizard having a totally underwhelming hero tree that nobody ever gives a cent in pvp having an 1M engulf medium hit every 30sec! Blizz: This is broken, must gut! Edit: I pvp only.

[@Bigjohn2121]

As a healer aff lock and bm have induced most of my pucker factor moments. They can usually burst right through all my cooldowns.

[@zometthecomet]

Shit DEI new hires didn't see that BM is the most represented class? The number 1 most played class? This is what we get when we hire these new people who have to respect for the game we've played for years. . . But hey at least we have option 1 and 2

[@Thorgal89]

Sad news for the homosexuals who play mage.

[@MostlyFish21]

Mages are blizzards woke class to play

[@Thorgal89]

@@MostlyFish21 exactly ! Couldnt of said it any better

[@StevenLee-vz6bd]

If a contain creator can’t remain neutral, than you should stop being one, I just unsubscribe d, I’m a priest and mage main, but what you said about H pally that’s unacceptable.

[@Aireez24]

@StevenLee-vz6bd get the F outta here!!!!!!!!!! A "content creator" isn't a robot! They are a person....just like YOU and me, and entitled to their opinion!!!! Sayin anyone that makes a video for people to watch, "should remain neutral".....yet think you can have your own opinion...you should be "Gibb slapped" nonstop, until hopefully you gain some sense!!!

[@sonicalmods781]

How a content creator thinks its healthy for the game to have the least punishing spec in the game (bm hunter) dominating the meters...

[@Despond]

It's very punishing, it doesn't have a set rotation and each GCD sequence will change on the fly. That's why when I play it I will always out DPS you in the same gear. The chain reaction of poor GCD selection has a huge effect on the end damage result. No spec should do significantly damage based on it's difficulty anyway, that's absurd logic. It at worst should be marginal.