NERFED? DEEP DIVE into the REMASTERED WIZARD in Pathfinder 2e!

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

ADDITIONS/ERRATA: -Spell Protection Array, the feat with the seemingly-unnecessary Sustain ability allows for abilities that let you do a free Sustain -28:28 The Phantasmal Minion spell itself gives the wizard the choice to make it invisible. (So a utility buff! Alas.)

[@dreadpiratewesley5954]

Additionally, the initial cast for the protection array has the manipulate trait. As I recall, sustain doesn't.

[@ditchdigger106]

If you sustain the array instead of recasting you can leave and go somewhere else on the battlefield instead of needing to stay within 30ft of the area you want to protect. Small, but potentially significant.

[@kevinbarnard355]

@@dreadpiratewesley5954 I agree. The main reason for the sustain option is to allow you to keep it active without provoking if you end up in melee danger.

[@LecherousCthulhu]

Still would have loved the wizard to get more spells based on their intelligence modifier like 3.5

[@colorpg152]

will you please stop making videos

[@eightmetalstrings]

You honestly needed to be hired by Paizo to go through all of their stuff and find the wrinkles. What an amazing job you've done in such a short amount of time. The community appreciates it!

[@chrystals.4376]

Agreed.

[@kevinpatrick6080]

One of the problems with the new curricula is the narrower choices for the wizard's curriculum slot. Previously, there were so many options that any school could probably find something... However, with the very narrow choices available, there is far more burden put on the designers and their balance choices/ability. Previously almost any school could be made viable, but with the very small list of choices, there is a greater risk of an objectively optimal curricula choice (or set of choices) overshadowing all others. As anyone who has played with a large enough player base can tell you, this is a recipe for one power gamer/optimizer to totally skew/imbalance an entire campaign with the inevitable shenanigans. While a GM would be free to alter things for balance, this puts more of a burden on them, which is something we've criticized D&D 5e for. Additionally, this option is simply not available for organized play, which is far more objectively standardized around the official core rules. While spellcasters are certainly improved, we should also not be surprised when all the wizards we see in the future only come from one or two curricula.

[@Ceriu]

ya ill be ignoring them they're dumb af...I can and WILL be putting spells into the REAL schools of magic end of story...what a joke. None of these are even appropriate for every LORE BASED game...ffs...Kitsune for example will NEVER take college of war it makes no god damn sense...and nothing thats Divination based? ya no lol dumb not doing it...most dont give af about "armies" ...especially not adventurers... I guess the dumb bla bla Grammatica would be best for something like Kitsune but still very dumb huge let down.

[@tystill]

I feel this issue could largely be addressed by making a short generic list of spells that a wizard of any curriculum could put into curriculum slots. Something that would be useful to all wizards of any level, like true strike, maybe fear or feather fall for first rank. This could also help with the issue some schools have if there are low rank spells that remain useful into high levels on that list, that way if a wizard has spells that heighten in their curriculum list, they could instead prepare the 'generic list' spell once they get to the point those spells are largely useless.

[@lucasfarted]

This argument could be made the exact same way but for having the 8 schools. Whenever there are options there is a chance one is more over powered than the others. But, you can still take the spell you think is amazing from another school. You can even use all your spell preps on it. At 1st level you're getting 5 spells of your choice and 2 spells from your school. By second level you'll have 7 spells of your choice and 2 from the school. In no game of any TTRPG I've played is a wizard actually using all their different known spells in a single session. The only reason to be really worried about your school is your focus spells. I think the bonus spells are nice but not character defining. Like The Rules Lawyer always says it gives breadth to a character rather than just power. I like diverse characters.

[@heyimbilliejean]

@@lucasfarted Yes, but the previous issue could be fixed by adding more spells to the game, or by errating one or two problem spells, whereas this is likely to require a subclass errata. I think you're missing the point here. The issue is that you have spell slots locked to what was a fairly focused, but broad list of options, and now it's focused and narrow. The universalist was already considered better, and making specialists even less flexible only widens that gap. As for using all of your spells, yeah Wizards aren't supposed to use all of their spells in one session. The whole point of the wizard is that it has a broad toolbox of options. I don't know what kind weird adventures you're expecting people to make that would require a wizard use every spell in their book; it sounds like a nightmare to play and run.

[@Ahglock]

I'm less concerned with a best option vs a bad option. Sucks when something that sounds cool ends up being a trap. Which I kind of think the boundary may be.

[@Money4Nuthing]

True Strike should be a school spell for Battle Wizards.

[@n.l.g.6401]

Just make it one. Who's gonna stop you, the cops?

[@dionysuswinecult1495]

idk if true strike is different in pathfinder but if it’s the same as in dnd, why would you do this to yourself

[@ColdNapalm42]

​@n.l.g.6401 PFS. These things are important for PFS players.

[@arealhumanbean3058]

​@@dionysuswinecult1495 True Strike is one of the best 1st level spells

[@benjamincarlson6994]

It's actually useful in PF2e, it doesn't use your entire turn to cast

[@porgy29]

I know there was a need to get this out more quickly but i feel like if Paizo was going to limit wizards flexibility by removing the schools, there was a need to create a larger list of curriculum. Not just 8, to match the 8 schools, but maybe 10 or 12. I know that would requier designing more focus spells, but if they provided a few more curriculum, it would be much easier to find one that has a set of spells that you are looking for and less pressure on perfectly balancing them.

[@Phantombit]

The major weakening of spellcasters came with the move to p2e, in the way of 5e but not to the same extent, the move from the quadratic growth in power casters experienced, and the number of spells that they could have active at one time being greatly shackled, Primary example, a summoning focused wizard can have 1 summon active at a time, because the spell takes 3 actions and to keep it up for its full and very limited 1 minute duration you have to sustain it as one of your actions every round. It is actually something I saw in this video as well, the summoning spells seem to be treated as the unwanted step child by the team in charge of p2e.

[@Skywardflare758]

I think the best way to describe my feelings on new Wizard is to say that the best Wizard feat is Psychic Dedication. I get what they were going for. Wizard had the most versatile list and the ability to get an obscene amount of spells with the ability to answer almost anything other than healing. The general casting proficiency change is massive for it, since both Psychic and Witch are easy dips, giving either spammable excellent focus spells or slots of any tradition. Plus, some spells got tweaked to be more efficient. However, with all that being said, the same applies to all casters. The school nerfs and less schools feel unnecessary without a secondary school feat and other classes got some really nice things (especially Cleric). Wizard Thesis is still incredibly good, but it feels like it’s the only major thing they have anymore. Even their school slots and Drain Bonded don’t feel that great when Cleric is running around with 4+ font and when Druid and Bard have incredible focus options.

[@datonkallandor8687]

28:28 - The Phantasmal Minion statblock doesn't say it's invisible, but the spell explicitly lets the caster choose to make it invisible.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Thanks, adding a pinned comment. Ah, still a bit too powerful imo! =D

[@AeromancerOffical]

How I'd "fix" Wizards ... Allow countered spells via spells "known" not prepared. This is different to spells inscribed (inscribed means you have mentally prepared the spell by scribing it in your book...) and I'd halve the cost of inscribing a spell. ("writing the spell in the book") Your "inscribed" spells are your list of spells that you can prepare. not known. Known means you have seen the spell in action and you know its effects, so it can be countered.

[@AeromancerOffical]

This would give the wizard the edge in defensive magic. The sorcerer can be the blaster/aggressive caster and Wizards can be the counter spell/utility class.

[@AeromancerOffical]

I'd adjust "Clever Counterspell" like this: Reaction, Trigger: You don't have the spell prepared but it is known to you. You have studied magic well enough that you can predict the type of spell being cast by a foe, and using your wits you pull out the perfect spell to counter that spell. You can counter any known spell of your spell rank or lower, you must know the spell and you can use any opposite spell (like a cold spell vs fireball) to counter it at a minus 2 to counter (if it's the same spell prepared then there is no penalty). If the spell being countered doesn't deal damage. You can counter it with the spell that does the opposite effect. Like Light to counter Darkness, Slow to counter Haste, Blindness to counter Darkvision etc. It is up to the GM if certain spells will counter.

[@christiancamarena5969]

Paizo throwing away good focus spells for wizards after the changes to focus points brings me pain. Literally kneecapping my boy.

[@leetaeryeo5269]

I am rather curious how the shifting of spells from attacks to saves will affect the Magus. The big benefit to spellstrike was getting to use your martial proficiency and weapon runes to replace your spell attack and use your weapon result as the spell attack result. But spells that have a save still require a save (when used with Expansive Spellstrike). It seems like a magus nerf, unless they address it in PC2

[@deadpoolegor]

It won’t affect it much. First of all, you can still all previous spells. Second, spell slots is better used for buffs and utility on Magus anyway. Cantrips are doing damage dealing purposes perfectly fine

[@leetaeryeo5269]

@@deadpoolegor yes, but there was also a shift in cantrips towards saves over attacks. Acid Splash became Caustic Blast which is now a save, and Ray of Frost is now Frostbite which is a save. I know we can technically use the older spells, but there’s kind of a two-pronged issue here: 1) if you want to avoid OGL content then there seems to be a shift away from spell attacks, and 2) does this indicate a bit of a shift in design ethos when it comes to spells? I think 1 is just a “deal with it until you get more ORC spells” problem, and 2 is something we’ll have to wait for PC2 to evaluate (maybe they saved spell attack spells for PC2 because the Magus relies on them, but the PC1 classes don’t depend on them as much).

[@deadpoolegor]

@@leetaeryeo5269 magus won’t be republished, so I don’t think it core 1 or 2 is a matter There will be probably less AC spells in a future, but we actually don’t need that much of them. Cantrips has a plenty of choices too. Gauging Claw received a good buff, Ignition is a good versatile option, TKP is for damage and Needle Darts really cool for metal weaknesses. You can also get expanded SS for even more versatility With a change to focus points, spell proficiency, cantrip damage, magus is stronger than ever

[@leetaeryeo5269]

@@deadpoolegor my bad, you’re right about magus not being republished. That said, it still doesn’t sit right with me. Ignition is nice, but Fire is the most commonly resisted energy damage type. Gouging Claw is and continues to be the default pick, though I’d love some variety there. Needle Darts is an interesting one to me, so I want to play with it some more. Telekinetic projectile just seems like Gouging Claw but worse for spellstriking, though. All that said, though, that’s still a pretty limited selection. I’ll add Slashing Gust to the list, but it has the weird “free hand” requirement that makes it not work for two-hand or sword and shield builds. Idk, it just seems like it’s a bit constrained to me.

[@ColdNapalm42]

@@leetaeryeo5269 slashing gust is for brawling magus since if you have both hands free, you can target 2 critters...so spell swipe with that cantrip would work.

[@powercore2000]

Overall i like the feat reworks (explosive summoning sounds very fun), but the remster feels like a side grade for the wizard specifically when all other classes feel directly improved or buffed. Universal spell casting and component removals are some of the biggest advantages but those were system changes not wizard changes. Edit: the crafting changes also buff the spell nexus wizard due to no formuals needed for common staves and overall buffing the utility of the craft skill. I would have liked to see the arcane thesis gain some love, more stock magic schools and some flexibility in their spell selection written out in the rules. I hope this is a stage for some of the other class concepts and builds paizo said they've wanted to do like a necromancer.

[@SheppiTSRodriguez]

I like the Wizard. And after playing one currently, I think is super strong (Im playing a Thematic, spaming style with low versatility) but they did the wizards dirty in the Remaster. Like, Zero love. Just fixing some things that where a no issue. Meanwhile, the Rogue gets buffed to hell, and gets MF juggernaut

[@zerg0s]

You can still do Staff Nexus universalist with bond conservation for an absolutely stupid number of daily spells (if you can keep track of it, though that was made easier!) but yeah, it kinda feels like they really should’ve… tried to add something to the class instead of just taking specialists and making them less special. I also really wanna see how Runelords are gonna work now. And they better beget a facelift…

[@Xestes97]

That's the very reason why wizard wasn't changed much, "I think is strong" is valid statement, it's basically THE caster class. Giving further buffs to wizard would be like giving buffs to fighter, it would be a lot stronger and would visibly outperform other spellcasting classes with it's vast versatility. The only issue with which I agree is scalling spells on low rank spell slots, dead spell slots feel bad but can be easily fixed by talking with your GM. Edit: Let's not forget about the fact that wizards also have the most versatility in items, wing of wizardry that basicaly give up to 3 free spell slots for your buff/debuff that doesn't scale with level (befuddle) or utility spells and works only with arcane spellcasters, they have grimoires that gives them bunch of bonuses and some give more free spell slots, they also can use staves with even more spell slots. As a polar opposite bards got coda (staves basically but with lower level rank spells) just this year and nothing else

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

I'm guessing Rogue's Juggernaut was a mistake. Hopefully we get a "hotfix" to answer some immediate questions.

[@zerg0s]

@@Xestes97 Staves are for all spellcasters and rings of wizardry are for all arcane casters, mind you. So they really aren't wizard-specific utility. And bards could always just use staves, they didn't have to wait for special bard staves! (though the special bard staves are fun) Grimoires are very nice, but they really don't offer all that much extra utility until you get to higher levels, and then you have to move your old spells into the new grimoire if you want to use that utility.

[@SheppiTSRodriguez]

Im Staff Nexus. Im never out of spells. And this boy hits like a truck @@zerg0s

[@Kiaulen]

That "moment of silence" music rocks

[@KaminoZan]

18:14 It took me this long since the announcement of the magic school removal to realize something... The Magus' Arcane Cascade has some features tied to the different schools of magic; the previous spell used before going into the stance changes the damage type of the Magus' Spell Strikes. There's also a feat that grants "spell-like" affects to the Magus after casting a spell from a particular school. Has there been any word on how those features are going to be affected?

[@leetaeryeo5269]

Realistically, most of the spells you cast do damage, which uses the same damage type of the spell for Cascade. Other than that, idk. Maybe force damage for non-damaging spells?

[@Khajmer]

Paizo has said they're going to address non-core classes that interact with the schools, presumably in the form of a free online supplement similar to the conversion guide they did for RoE.

[@miguelmontero4133]

@@leetaeryeo5269 the way I played my Magus was that almost 100% of every fight I would cast the shield cantrip (one action), arcane cascade, and then move into position as the first round. This meant that my arcane cascade was almost never from a "damaging spell" as you suggest. But that's just my experience in a campaign where no one ever wanted to waste an action on recall knowledge because of how bad it was pre-remaster, so I didn't really have foreknowledge of weaknesses.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

We have our model in the Bespell Strike wizard feat here: any extra damage is force damage, with the caveat that if the previous spell did damage, to use that damage type. So that's my guess of what we'll see.

[@leetaeryeo5269]

@@miguelmontero4133 That’s fair. Normally, I would be entering Arcane Cascade off the back of a spellstrike because I either play with a physical shield (so, using that instead of a cantrip) or play a bow magus.

[@beaverkoin]

I might be in the minority, but I liked attack roll spells for my wizard. Getting a character Stupified or Drained is not as common as flat-footed in the game and sometimes gave you that better chance to crit. I liked the versatility of having those spells available.

[@Ceriu]

attack spells are very good with Shadow Signet rings AND true strike etc...

[@Akraigimsalem]

It also further nerfs the magus until errata

[@Ahglock]

I am not sure what is better overall but the option being there meant when facing bosses that are going to crit save all your damn spells you would have at least a way to target them. And failing when you roll like crap just does not feel as bad imo then the DM constantly rolling a 8 and saying crit success.

[@brolveth6665]

It also hurts magus, but who cares about them anyway, paizo certantly doesnt

[@beaverkoin]

@@brolveth6665 In the games I run, definitely going to allow the old spells, just for the sake of the Magus.

[@Leonson1]

A lot of the changes to spells (Replacing attack rolls with save effects) actually hurts the Magus more than anything else. It somewhat forces the Magus to take 'Expansive Spellstrike' in order to have damage variety. Example being the Ray of Frost change to Frostbite. Ignition is great and all, but if straight damage was my sole concern I'd take the psychic dedication to get access to the 'Imaginary Weapon' cantrip.

[@zanderzingh]

With Spell Protection Arry I think the sustain option is for the free sustain wizards get later on - but the duration per "casting" of SPA can only be 1 minute so after that duration the wizard has to explicitly use the action again and then can sustain it with the free action sustain again for a minute - at least that's how I understand it

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Good point! Adding to a pinned comment

[@XoriniteWisp]

@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Also the Sustain action doesn't have Manipulate, just Concentrate.

[@TheNeiven]

Another reason is that it allows Wizard to sustain that protected area while being too far away to set it up again.@@TheRulesLawyerRPG

[@lyracian]

Excellent summary. I like your colour coded chart of the focus spell changes. I guess all Wizards can become Blessed Ones or Lore Masters for that extra focus point!

[@VencentCross]

Scene: Julia Ceasar bleeds from multiple stab wounds on the senate floor. "Ah it hurts but... it's premature to conclude they want me dead" *Brute enters the scene*

[@gackybass]

😂 Poor wizards, still paying for 5e's sins

[@Houtont]

@@gackybass 5e had nothing to do with this, its the legacy of 3.5 that drives the knives in.

[@gackybass]

@@Houtont 5e wizard is more relatively absurd than 3.5. At least there the class had limitations and other classes had options to work with, but in 5e, all of that is trimmed away in the interest of streamlining, making wizard functionally unstoppable at its worst and an outright replacement for the GM at its best. 3e may have started Wizard's cursed legacy but 5e is absolutely the worst case.

[@cataleptickraken3197]

​@@gackybass what? 5e wizard is nothing compared to 3.5. seriously, they aren't even close.

[@gackybass]

@@cataleptickraken3197 just see my above comment, it's a matter of discrepancy, sure 3.5 wizard is stronger than 5e in a vacuum but we aren't looking at a vacuum, we're looking holistically at these systems - the way they're built, sources of friction, the other play options, etc.

[@Extradecentskeleton]

I'm interested if the sorcerer will get any changes in core 2, id be fine with just some more interesting feats and elemental sorcerer actually doing more than one element damage.

[@RussanoGreenstripe]

I have to imagine that the various Angelic/Demonic bloodlines will either have the option to Sanctify, or be auto-Sanctified.

[@megavore97]

Elemental bloodline will likely have wood and metal options too

[@ellenok]

I hope Sorcerer gets actual class features. If they actually had the most slots it'd be fine, but wizards have the same amount of slots +1, and 2 subclasses, where sorcerer's single subclass barely does anything most of the time.

[@Azeur]

My theory is that Paizo is making wizard weak, to further distance themselves from Wizards of the Coast. :^)

[@remmyremarius8889]

I can see what they're trying and a lot of the changes I appreciate however I'm really not a fan of so much being down to the DM despite being a DM myself. It puts the wizard in an odd situation that an experienced player will effectively bargain with the DM whereas a new player will be left in a very odd position.

[@KingFate20]

I feel Wizard is in a bad spot because they feel like worse Sorcerer. Spontaneous honestly feels so much better to use, and scrolls are so cheap the a Sorc can just buy the Wizard's flexibility for pennies on the dollar. Combine that with having so much worse focus spells than Sorc and I can't really find a time I would want to play Wizard. With Witch gaining so many good abilities that don't cost a spellslot, if I wanted an Int caster I'll just play witch. Honestly I feel Wizard REEEEAAAAALLY wants some half decent focus spells instead of ones that aren't even worth the actions they cost. Like, imagine spending 2 actions and a Focus point on Scramble Body to do Evil Eye (a 1 action hex cantrip). You gave up casting any other spells on your turn AND a Focus point for a SLIM chance at a slow.

[@datonkallandor8687]

Strong disagree on that, I would much rather play a Wizard and have the flexibility compared to a sorceror who's locked into a handful of spell choices. And with the new improved spellshapes, the weakest wizard subclass got really awesome.

[@feral_orc]

@@datonkallandor8687 you are in the minority. Only Universalist wizards come close to matching a sorcerer. And it's to do with one thing. Spell Slots.

[@megavore97]

@@feral_orcThat’s underselling the wizard’s ability to directly add spells to their spellbook.

[@Keleva]

​@megavore97 Needing to add spells to a spellbook is a downside, not a benefit. Clerics and Druids have access to their entire tradition any time they want it, without needing to jump through hoops and burn wealth to keep up. In PF1 this was arguably a balancing factor for the wizard spell list being incredibly broad and powerful compared to the other spell lists, but that's just not true anymore.

[@megavore97]

@@Keleva Arcane is still far and away the largest spell tradition, that hasn’t changed.

[@paulcasanova1909]

I love that you brought up a programming meme about the 8 schools with no explanation for using that specific meme in general lmao

[@alexsherry1238]

I actually realy like the changes to Curriculums. An Accounting Major, Computer Science Major, and a Graphic Design Major would take very different classea and have different skill sets. I also feel it encourages thinking about your backstory and knowing your characters' general vibe. Though maybe they could have added the equivalent of an Associates in Arts where you have a lot of different options from different schools, but none of the strongest stuff since you didn't specialize.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

There's the school of Unified Magical Theory!

[@Просто_Иван]

new schools had to either give spells from other tradition or have better focus spells P.s third one- working as spontaneous

[@powercore2000]

I'm surprised curriculums don't dip into other traditions since they universalized spellcasting proficiencies anyway. Seems like a logical next step

[@christopherbennett2411]

Most of the buffs were for martials. The cantrip dmg change is a martial buff. The buffs to casters are for their martial versions. The focus spell buff more buffs the martials with focus spells.

[@Eladelia]

I haven't (thus far) been one of the people who thought casters were bad exactly, but I am taken aback that the trend we seem to be seeing is significant buffs to the martial classes, and overall nerfs to casters (including the cantrip damage calculation changes amounting to both a martial buff and a caster nerf on balance). It's puzzling.

[@Phantombit]

The summoning spellshape HAD to be a free action, otherwise it couldn't exist, all summoning spells are 3 action casts.

[@KlampK]

Light is now a side grade. The majority of it is a buff but the fact you can't imbue a pebble with light and drop it down a bottomless pit is now a nerf. Though it does make everlight better so that's a olus

[@xdragoonzero0]

Just attach the light to a rat and drop it down the bottomless pit.

[@KlampK]

I would only see a pet rat as being a willing subject, and then that is the type of action a character with the unholy sanctification would do

[@cruzerion]

There's no longer any need to attach it to a pebble. The "can't go more than 120 feet away from you" portion of dancing flames is gone so you can just manually move the light down the pit instead. Sure it takes a bit more actions, but you're probably not going to be doing that in the middle of combat anyways and it's a worthwhile tradeoff for the added functionality and ability to have 4 active at a time

[@KlampK]

isn't the sustain still limited by the spell range of 120 ft?

[@justicar5]

moving to saving throws from attack rolls is a straight nerfm for two reasons: It means you have to have memorised multiple spells to target different saves, meaning you might not have a spell that will work against that target, rather than a few that functioned as old reliable, and you cannot crit.

[@GameMasterDude230]

So Ronald, if you were to add a home brew feature like “Study Abroad”, what would it look like? What level feat, how would it read, etc…?

[@hikaratu]

For spell protection array. It's because the feat itself and sustain actions have different tags, name manipulate vs concentrate so sustaining it vs using the feat again can have some important differences even if the action cost is the same.

[@Atrianpaul]

the change from Attack to TS is wellcome for caster but the Magus need a remaster too... or you must take Expansive Spellstrike to actually use your "spellstrike"

[@Akraigimsalem]

Spiral of Horrors (Previously Dread Aura) was nerfed as the previous language did not allow the frightened condition to be reduced whatsoever, now it can't be reduced past 1. Before with the aura, a lucky casting of fear could have all the enemies be stuck at frightened 2-3 as long as they were within the aura

[@Sparticuse]

The scaling problem already existed before the revision. Your low level spell slots can only be used for non-scaling spells at high level and that feels super meta and bad to me. I think spells should automatically scale. Maybe not automatically all the way to their best version based on your level, but they need to scale somehow

[@feral_orc]

I back this too. I was working on homebrewing some spells to auto-heighten up one or two levels to get some sensation of the old system of spells scaling to caster level. They made so many spells useless by restricting your spell slots so hard in this edition as well. I never would see a cleric without remove fear in 1e, now that's a second level spell which you can only ever cast three of per day. Nobody casts that spell anymore, not because it's weaker but because the cost is so much higher.

[@MagnificentMelkior]

How does that feel meta at all? The wizard gets more powerful magics at his command and when he had to fight a fearsome monster he would have had no chance against before, he knows not to try to blast it with weak sauce noob bolts. But staple rote effects like invisibility might still have uses

[@Sparticuse]

@@MagnificentMelkior because I'm artificially putting non-scaling spells there. If I'm playing a character who wants to blast, I can't use those slots for blasting because my cantrips hit harder

[@arealhumanbean3058]

This is one of the reasons I want the removal of spell slots and the implementation of spell points

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

The scaling issue didn't really exist before - taking Evocation, there are 28 1st-rank arcane Evocation spells currently. This included some spells that have significant utility outside of numerical scaling: Briny Bolt (blind on a hit), Gust of Wind I just found

[@jakecomeau27]

It seems like a lot of spells are changing from spell attacks to saving throws. This makes me wonder what they are going to do with the magus, since they are essentially loosing a lot of their best spell options (Shocking grasp and polar ray for example). I wonder if they are thinking of reworking expanded spellstrike. I can see something like having the spell affect the target as if the target had failed if you hit, or as if it had critically failed if you critically hit. I'm not sure how that would be balance-wise, but I like the idea.

[@gackybass]

Probably using a save one degree of success worse if you hit (up to a failure) or two degrees worse on a crit (up to a crit fail). Makes it less exploitable IMO.

[@ColdNapalm42]

@gackybass no. Anything that shifts success or have it based on you degree os success on hit would be INCREDIBLY broken. You get a +4 from an auto crit aid of a fighter. The target is off guard from flank. You have a +2 heroism from the cleric. The target is frightened 2 from the fighter critting with a greater fearsome weapon. That is basically a +10 to your attack. So you roll good enough to hit their AC and you crit them...with slow...which on a crit failure is lose 2 actions a turn. They would have to limit to pure damage only spells for this to balance out.

[@gackybass]

@@ColdNapalm42 You say this like the aidpile shenanigans you're already using won't already melt 90% of creatures in the game up to 4 levels above you P.s. why do you have heroism and not the fighter? You're sandbagging in your example just so you can make this sound better than it is

[@ColdNapalm42]

@gackybass why would the fighter have it? Fighters are not damage dealers beyond low levels. And even at lower levels, they are far better as support melee that does damage too over being a pure damage dealer. You boost the crit rate of builds that do massive single hit crits because of aid bonuses at higher levels. Aid bonuses being Something fighters are really good at...that they really don't need a bonus to...especially in remastered where you crit on a DC 25. Which at level 13 is gonna succeed on a nat 1 only because of downgrade of success level. And no, even with all that aid pile, you don't melt things 4 levels above you. You can if you can keep your party up for 3 rounds...but things 4 levels above you should be nuking a party members out of the fight each round.

[@xdragoonzero0]

The remastered cleric's new version of Channel Smite could be how Spellstrike ends up working. On a hit the target automatically fails, and if it's a critical hit it automatically crit fails. There's no success on a miss, so it basically just turns Heal/Harm into an attack spell. Now a Spellstrike version of this would probably need a restriction like the spell needing to do damage and/or have only a single target, since otherwise you could do crazy shit with non-damaging spells, but we'll have to see.

[@Jermbot15]

Pour one out for acidstar the acid magus. First lost the ability to spell strike himself and everyone arouns him with acid splash. Now can't use acid arrow either.

[@saoliath5000]

Counterpoint: In 1e, spell schools means you can define how your wizard plays to a large degree. If you want to be an illusion wizard, you can make yourself very good at illusions to the point that only enemies that have particularly good will saves or resistances to such magic are safe. 2e wants characters to be exceptionally average at everything though. the only reason spell schools can be disregarded is because they designed 2e so that a wizard of a spell school isnt actually any better at them for the most part which frankly is kind lame and removes interesting character options.

[@flameloude]

My problem with the new curriculums is the same as the school's. I was hoping to have options that shows specialization of the set of spells you decided to pick up. Feats that only those with said school could access. As is it still feels like you need to take an architype to truly show you are dedicated to a specific kind of spell.

[@ProduccionesPaquito]

So, wait, the custom curriculum that was shown in the preview is now no longer a thing? I liked the idea of having every wizard choose a small list of spells that fit with the theme they were going for, like “the goblin school of blowing things up”, made up only of flashy fire spells. You can’t tell me that in the school of war magic they only teach like 20 spells and everyone learns the same ones. The previous schools were, if anything, universal, as they could fit anywhere and any wizard could find their niche. These new six schools are fine, but they feel limited, like they feel as examples for the custom school system they wanted to implement… and then they just… didn’t. It feels weird for the class that should rightfully be the most customizable.

[@eyeh0]

Dread Aura/Spiral of Horrors seems to have been nerfed, no? It used to prevent reducing frightened altogether, but now it only prevents reducing frightened below frightened 1. So that’s exactly like the Bard’s Dirge of Doom but worse, right? Costs 2-actions initially AND costs a focus point.

[@revelence9128]

I do like the Idea of the new magical schools. I do believe ill keep the old ones in, perhaps not as schools, but maybe calling them "magical lores" or something similar. As it's true they're not always a practical curriculum but they were great descriptors for types of magic and i still see use for such a descriptors in game. Even if they're not tied to class abilities.

[@franciscoteixeira174]

I`m very confused didn't the school slot spell still needed to be part of you spellbook? When talking about wizard in the remaster people talk like the school slot was open to any speel of the school in the list, not spell of the school in your spellbook????

[@TheLunarboy4]

I wanna play a protean school wizard soooo bad. EVOLVE AND ADAPT! Also, I'm so happy to see that wizards now have access to the summoner ostentatious arrival feat

[@besteger]

Remember, the Polymorph trait says that you cannot cast in battle form. Learn from my mistakes.

[@neurolancer81]

I think they should give a list of focus spells for new cirricula.

[@davidk8699]

Thank you for these excellent videos.

[@eserile]

Are damage cantrips weaker because they no longer add spell ability mod to damage? (Electric arc is a flat 2d4)

[@GrimmDichotomy]

Re: a homebrew feat for cross-currucula Focus Spells, why not call it Extracurricular Studies? ;)

[@starrius]

spell protection array. i think having is sustainable is to allow them to be threatened and not have to do a manipulate action

[@thestylemage2092]

One thing I find kind of sad is that this "new" class direction is very antagonistic with non-school background wizards. The street urchin that pick pocketed a spellbook or someone who grew up far away from magic schools who is very self taught/only really studied under one mentor.

[@lawrl777]

then you'd go with your mark or mentor's school

[@nemo-no-name]

Re:weak cantrips or wasted slots : they had Sigil as the only Transmutation cantrip for years. It meant any Transmutation Wizard was down one cantrip (played one in PFS to lvl7 and did not find a single use for it despite constant attempts - one of the repeat DMs found this funny). Lets be real; if Paizo could, they would drop the Wizard as a class. They do not care.

[@Nairneh]

I would love if the school spells could brush against other traditions. Like a homebrew School of Arcane Conquest (or Tyranny - the name is in the air 🤔) having spells like: Charm, Dominate, Phantasmal Killer (or the renamed one), Weird, Horrid Wilting, Suggestion, Subconscious Suggestion, Soul Bind, Wail of the Banshee). I'd really like to have Soul Bind and Wail of the Banshee as a Wizard (they could cast those in PF1e... why not in 2e).

[@leetaeryeo5269]

I’m legit going to homebrew a College of Arcane Convalescence to give healing as school spells, adding them to your spellbook and spell list. It definitely infringes on other class identities, but in my group, I’m basically the only person who plays casters, so it’d be fine for us

[@feral_orc]

This is literally what they suggested you could do in previews. I guess they lied. Like they did when they said Rangers wouldn't need to rely on Hunt Prey as much anymore.

[@RubinoffPrague]

It will be interesting to see how PFS handles some of the issues, such as curriculum spells that become useless.

[@locusofintent]

I'm curious to see how the Runelords fit in now, given how they were tied in with the schools of magic.

[@lawrl777]

i would bet that runelord is just, never reprinted

[@kevinbarnard355]

Since they were associated with the D&D 2nd edition system of school specialization (specific prohibited schools) and already a legacy back in PF1, I wouldn't be surprised if they just stay as they are and use pre-mastered spells and schools. If someone needs to update them for a 2.1 adventure featuring Sin Magic/Runelords, they could probably be reworked with the example schools. Karzoug would be Protean Form, Alaznyst would be Battle Magic, Belimarius could be Ars Grammatica, etc. Or, for even more work, someone could come up with schools of Rune/Sin Magic. Sorshen and Belimarius might teach those curricula in their respective kingdoms.

[@Irumi2024]

How would this change impact the runelord dedication. Is that just not a thing anymore?

[@Ketharuil]

I feel like Wizard could have benefited from being the Fighter of Spellcasters, make their spellcasting proficiency progress faster than the other casters.

[@michaelmurphy748]

Although I do agree the Wizard was not overly nerfed but saying that they get access to all simple weapons is not a buff. In the end, I think it will be meaningless as a wizard will not really use weapons. I do wish they had added something to play up the idea that Wizards go to school and are highly intelligent (or just well read) and given them an optional feat that truly buffs recall knowledge.

[@Nickelback8469]

Aside from my dislike towards the changes to cantrips, I also strongly dislike the removal of the traditional arcane schools of magic and the move towards "Hogwarts" style in world arcane schools. I preferred when in world magic schools were an opt-in option for settings and now that they're actual mechanics for the wizard class, it'll become an opt-out decision. I don't like wizards being flavored as fantasy college students and that being pushed in as default.

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

i actually like the 8 (+ universal) arcane schools. this is a part that DnD doesn't own. the schools are not perfect but they are not broken, they should 100% have added Elemental Schools

[@arcanefeline]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no curriculum replacing the school of Necromancy now, is there? Protean Form replaces Transmutation, Battle Wizardry replaces Abjuration and Evocation, but what about Necromancy?

[@andrelimaveiga7867]

Pick school of boundary(conjuration 2.0) and pick either the reanimator or undead master archetype. That's the closest you can get

[@anyoneatall3488]

Doesn't something similar happen to the diviner school?

[@d20Rethgaal]

(Probably others have said this buuuut) It should be the "Minor Field of Study" or somesuch. I like the idea that the wizard "schools" are now like "I went to Hogwarts" but they're realllllly more like "I have a Bachelor's degree in engineering" (and then "with a minor in mind reading")

[@shadieeryaqati4514]

Spiral of Horrors was a bit of a let-down, but I think it might see some use in a future game. I must admit, I was also hoping Bespell Weapon (now Strikes) would get a buff though. I really hope that we'll be getting immobilizing spells to actually make the detonation array work.

[@bramnovak881]

I wish they'd just go to spell points. We used Elements of Magic in 3.5 and it was great. A few issues of course, but way more fun than vancian, at least for us. Plus things like downtime can lend to getting points back.

[@legendarydigitize2523]

I also used spell points but i made some changes and a unique new homebrew action to recharge spellpoints in a turn Not as efficient because the cost will really have you drain more than you recover Still better than nothing and lose your spells Also used a kind of cooldown when heightening or casting spells at 6th rank or higher To prevent spamming 10th level spells every turn for example

[@patron7906]

Thank you, Ronald!

[@duncbot9000]

I've been planning to put Civic Wizards in the lore of my homebrew world and thinking about all the things that would affect, this makes it so much easier!

[@003mohamud]

I kinda hoped that we would get a unique spellshape feat for each of the schools to increase the flavor of the schools, rather than just being a list of thematic spells. I really like the flavor of the different schools and kinda hoped for paizo to lean into the themeing more.

[@thewerewizard6721]

Do you think Conceal spell would ignore the manipulate trait of spells for reactive strike

[@FormerRuling]

No. All it does is add the Subtle trait to the spell.

[@thewerewizard6721]

​@@FormerRulingwhat's the subtle trait do?

[@FormerRuling]

@thewerewizard6721 The subtle trait removes the "utterances and sensory manifestations" that typically accompany the casting of a spell. It is mostly an RP trait though can be read as removing the need for the caster to be able to speak, since they don't have to utter incantations.

[@openmoose]

before watching: oh dang with no schools of magic, how will the ancient Thassilon/rune magic stuff change???

[@Atrianpaul]

I think the que spellprotection array has the you can sustain is because there is some feat or ability that allow you to sustain it as a free actions

[@feral_orc]

I want to say as someone who was shouting about spellcaster nerfs, while they made some spells better, the absolute GUTTING of the divine list and the removal of several spells for no apparent reason, not to mention the cantrip changes, have not changed my mind at all. Whatever they're trying to turn this into I'm sure Gary Gygax would have been delighted with. But he would have also hated all the rules as well. Also removing "spell schools" and replacing them with literal spell schools is really stupid. Just really bad. They've managed to make wizards even less interesting to the people who actually wanted to play as them. I'm in a server with 56 different PCs who are all playing in different campaigns. There is one wizard. Nobody wants to play this class. The only class with less rep is the gunslinger, an infamously clunky class to play.

[@lordcirth]

Dunno what to tell you, I love playing Wizard. Universalist, though.

[@feral_orc]

@@lordcirth universalist is the exception to everything because it actually has an equal amount of spell slots as a sorcerer.

[@lordcirth]

@@feral_orc It has the same number of slots as the specialists, though? They get an extra slot at each level, universalist gets to recast one per level. It's actually 1 less because specialists do get 1 use of Drain Bonded Item.

[@saoliath5000]

PF2e seems to hate giving players any autonomy. magic tends to be flexible and the designers dont like that.

[@GoblinKing2001]

Seems like they focused their innovations on the Witch meanwhile the Wizard feels like it was made with recycled materials.

[@dlsisson1970]

There should be a "wizard-school dropout" school of magic (which could also include those who are self taught) to replace the universalist.

[@Anarch_Bushey]

I am going to love crafting new wizard schools for my new settings. Adds alot of character and doesnt seem too hard to balance.

[@yellowbelt]

So is divination and me romantic spells gone? Mainly in mechanics since we are changing spells.

[@zarutodaskira]

Where do you saw that you can't use a higher level slot for a lower level spell from your curriculum?

[@epicguy9678]

I'm still very against the removal of the magic schools. I think Paizo just took the easy way out and didn't even bother renaming them.

[@lawrl777]

except that none of the 6 curriculums actually lines up with a DnD school of magic

[@davidbowles7281]

They didn't need to remove them all. They aren't protectable IP.

[@michael-we-are-legion-brown]

To use a Fourth Edition DND analogy, Wizards get more daily actions and Witches get more encounter actions. I think it’s a wash 9/10 times but they have different budgets.

[@tabletopgamingwithwolfphototec]

Yeah they didn't need to remove the old system. All they had to do was change the names of some.

[@Keovar]

How would you make a necromancer now?

[@Houtont]

New class apparently. But it sure feels wrong.

[@ThePF2EWizard]

It actually made me laugh. Every tradition didn't get its own variant of wish. . It got a variant that countered Wish. Poor Arcane Casters are in a situation where they can make anything they desire happen, but three other traditions can just simply say 'No', and it doesn't happen. I think it's a shame that every 10th level 'Wish' variant lost its flavor, but separating Wish from Arcane and putting every tradition on an even field for it is still a good change nonetheless.

[@Ahglock]

Want to play a archetype with a focus spell based around improving your summons but still end up the worst summoner in the game, well do I have a spell school for you.

[@bjwessels]

Finally, my dwarf wizard is, by raw, proficient with his clan dagger and hammer.

[@zennav2997]

Am I reading it correctly, because it seems that bond conservation shouldn't have spellshape trait now?

[@bobpoteete]

What are you audibly clicking to create a visual "spotlight" on the display? Thanks,

[@Просто_Иван]

Even spellbook prodigy was nerfed

[@Colouroutofspace4]

Any word on how they are changing the runelord archetype? Or are they just left in the dirt?

[@cliffhellinger7064]

Color me curious if a universalist wizard still has the choice of universal versatility in remaster or if it just remains in old book

[@Stormer13]

If there is a trend of changing attack roll spells to saving throws, I hope they change Spellstrike and Spell Shot (the Eldritch Archer equivalent). Otherwise, I'm losing the chance to cast Acid Arrow as an Eldritch Shot and I would be very sad.

[@hodldawg]

So are costed material components gone, too? It never gets mentioned.

[@kevinbarnard355]

Am I missing something with Secondary Detonation Array? The feat requires that you cast a spell which does damage. Then next round it does Force damage. Except that it does whatever type of damage the preceding spell dealt instead. Why bother saying that the rune will deal force damage in the first part, if it will always do the type of damage that the triggering spell deals???

[@daniellemurnett2534]

Probably just making sure there's a default. I agree that it's weird though.

[@tmarcb1296]

Is the no free hand requirement affect all spellcasters or just wizards?

[@daniellemurnett2534]

Every class. This has been the case since the system launched with the exception of material and focus (now locus) component spell. The former one got dropped in the remaster.

[@Feralhyena]

Yay, my dual crit-spec Magus build is still viable. I just hope there's a path to gain an Arcane Thesis through the Archetype, not that the build really needs it.

[@jimmyredd]

11:08 an omission is not a contradiction. I thought you were a lawyer?

[@TitaniumDragon]

Wizards are extremely powerful because of their ridiculous number of spell slots. The problem is that the best wizard is the Spell Blending wizard, who gets an extra +1 spell slot on their top two levels of spells, which gives them a ridiculous amount of firepower over other classes - at level 7, a witch has two level 4 spells, whereas a wizard has, effectively, five if they have spell blending. This doesn't "show up" as an ability, so people don't register it as a thing, but it is a huge source of power for them - being able to drop big spells every significant encounter is a big deal, as is being able to unload big spell after big spell in hard encounters. This is what makes wizards one of the strongest classes in the game.

[@davidbowles7281]

They seem like one of the worst.

[@Kokszo]

I know that these changes in arcane spells are supposed to benefit casters but damn will I miss some of the previous spells when playing eldritch archer (unless it gets rewritten in some extra errata that your attack gets compared to that creature's dc for applying effects then it would get more creative with applying eldritch shots for utility instead of just extra damage)

[@nemo-no-name]

No comment on the Form Retention? Is it in the book even?

[@Peyote-Poncho]

The curriculum's being weirdly limited despite being smaller in number is pretty bad, and some of the choices being as shitty as they are is just... bizarre. You only have six schools- why are they so lackluster? And yeah, the Focus Spell issue is also just... shitty. Like they did since PF1e, Paizo seems to sometimes just turn their brain off during design.

[@grinningbuck]

14:50 Wait, that's not a real tear!

[@RyanKingofAnything]

Correction: You *can* fill a second rank slot with one of the rank 1 spells.