NES video output - RF vs Composite vs RGB

[@douglasalmeida6878]

Rf and composite has the nostalgia effect for me.

[@LynxxLancer]

The RF signal is the most authentic one for NES. It actually looks as how I remember it if you hook it up to a CRT.

[@Yoshsterpalooza]

But the rgb has the best color quality

[@LynxxLancer]

@@Yoshsterpalooza Want the best color quality? Play on an emulator.

[@lodestarlondon8850]

@@nocturnaldivision what's a PVM?

[@nocturnaldivision]

@@lodestarlondon8850 Professional Video Monitor. Sony's very high end CRT monitors made until the late 90s. Meant for medical imaging, video editing, monitoring broadcasts, etc. They were crazy expensive back then and they cost a lot even now. Some people swear by them for retro gaming but I think thats absurd.

[@ASTR0TALKSPHILOSOPHY]

@@nocturnaldivision Hey, it's not the best experience. You should get a sony BVM. Which are even better than PVMS and they can cost up to thousands of dollars.

[@RedArremer]

You should have been using the "YUV" palette for this purpose, because it more closely matches PAL format colors. The more blue night sky in Castlevania reflects NTSC behavior in that RGB palette you used.

[@toni_jimenez-l4t]

The improvement in RGB format is impressive. Thanks you for your video.

[@goldhagengaming]

Thanks for watching! :)

[@RetrofIex]

I think its normal to see those jailbar lines on solid color backgrounds when playing RF right? I dont think theres a way to fully make that disappear??

[@jaredt2590]

The nes output is due to when it was designed, by the mid 80s companies started releasing consoles with a dedicated pallet, if you want a clear picture you just have to pull the pallet out of the system before information is lost. Thankfully we have the arcade palette for the nes which gives us one that they used at the time.

[@larssawatzki1538]

Can you tell me which RGB Mod was used?

[@sa3270]

People seem to think RF and composite are two different things. They don't realize RF is just a modulated composite signal. It's still composite, though. Channel 3 frequency is around 17 times the chroma carrier, so it should be possible to recover the baseband composite signal with a fair degree of accuracy. S-video, however, provides a much cleaner output than composite, virtually eliminating color artifacting/fringing, by providing a definitive luma signal. RGB is of course the clearest. But, I have read how the NES graphics chip produces color. It emits only a composite signal, correct? Internally, it does not start with an overall luma value for each pixel, but instead, a low and high level for the selected intensity. The hue is incorporated by selecting either the low or high intensity according to the phase within the chroma cycle. So, there is no place to tap an authentic luma signal, let alone RGB? Judging from the cleanliness of the RGB samples in this video, guessing the mod must reference the horizontal sync for determining pixel alignment when computing luminance to use for conversion to RGB, along with the knowledge that pixels on the NES are 2/3 of a chroma width.

[@felipesouza2702]

why the background shaking when the character moves? this is more evident with rf and composite.

[@R_Rodas_]

Nice video; straight to the point. It’d be cool to also have an HDMI example (modded NES, AVS, etc.) for comparison.

[@goldhagengaming]

Yeah, that was my original plan. However, all the hdmi-kits are sold out everywhere at the moment!

[@jayash6108]

@@goldhagengaming I have a HDMI modded NES and the difference is night and day, yes very hard to get the HDMI mod boards, in fact probably impossible now as i have not seen any for sale recently.

[@customsongmaker]

​@@jayash6108Does it include options for filters, and also does it enable the expansion audio chip sound channels? I think NES Hi-Def was the one with all those features.

[@jayash6108]

i think so @@customsongmaker

[@2kBofFun]

3:34 Oh No! The RGB kills the quintessential shimmering of the city lights. How did you record it. DId you film an actual CRT tube? It looks more like it was fed into a capture card or such.

[@dariosilva7836]

Well spotted. I just tested Mega Man 2 on retroarch and that shimmering effect is not there even with scanlines.

[@msd5808]

The hard edged shimmering effect in scrolling with composite is less noticeable on RF (because the picture is softer), but I'm not sure it's that noticeable on a CRT. It may be an LCD thing. I'm using a VA panel so it's worse. Sometimes I think the secret ingredient of arcades' graphics superiority back then was actually the RGB output that we didn't have at home in the U.S. Because I would wonder why games that were old in the arcade still looked better than when playing newer games at home. I remember with my Genesis I did prefer composite to RF, but when I tweaked the settings of the TV, adjusting brightness and turning color up some, I could get a pretty similar image to composite. It might depend on the quality of components in the TV of course.

[@2kBofFun]

The shimmering is intended and totally there on a CRT.

[@plainoldpants3783]

Sorry for necroposting, but I'm 95% sure those ugly white outlines and excessive shimmering in the Composite are being added by some kind of video sharpness filter. I've tested this when emulating NES on my Wii over Composite, and the games look that way when the sharpness is set *way* too high. The games are most likely meant to be seen with zero sharpness, which is what I see in the RF in this video.

[@dany1492]

Is the rgb dignal being send by component cable , vga or what?

[@goldhagengaming]

It's being sent by a 8 mini din cable. Actually this one: bit.ly/31GiQCt

[@vembrace]

Seems MGII was not converted to 50hz properly.

[@door2977]

That music is off, is that what the pal version sounds like?

[@goldhagengaming]

Yes, both the gameplay and the music is slower on 50hz PAL.

[@GreenSoap]

What capture card did you use? Dunno what to use to capture RGB SCART :(

[@goldhagengaming]

My setup is RGB consoles to an OSSC and then from the OSSC to an Elgato 4K mk.2. I’m very satisfied with that setup.

[@GreenSoap]

@@goldhagengaming Ayy thanks for the fast answer. Does the OSSC take composite? Are you playing on a CRT? I am so I'll have to find some solution to split the RGB signal :/

[@goldhagengaming]

Yes, i’m playing on a crt. I have a gscartsw that has two scart outputs, one to the OSSC and one to the crt. But you can probably buy a cheap scart splitter for like 15$. Composite does not work on the OSSC, but the Retrotink 5x Pro takes about everything, you should check that one out.

[@GreenSoap]

​@@goldhagengaming Cheers man, it's such a jungle sorting this out.

[@Jaibuuuu]

What a difference! I'd prefer the RGB because of the color accuracy, but with this comparison I can see that RGB is probably too sharp, the character, statues and branches look rather bad when they are that sharp at 6:04

[@goldhagengaming]

I agree that rgb looks ”too sharp” on a modern monitor. But rgb on a crt monitor is amazing.

[@customsongmaker]

​@@goldhagengamingWhat if you use a smoothing filter in an emulator?

[@jaredt2590]

The rgb is gonna look better because it just tells the screen how to look but that signal because it’s different than what the nes generates won’t have the right color. What the picture should look like is the composite image without the blur and full color.

[@TheRetroGuy83]

You forgot S-video, quality between composite and RGB, but still useful because is easy & cheap to pass modern HDMI output signal to S-Video.

[@deltakid0]

Vynil sucks, but there's this nostalgia involved that makes people turn to it, the same goes for RF, it sucks but that's what I had available back then so I feel pretty comfortable and nostalgic playing on RF.

[@goldhagengaming]

I can totally relate and understand that!

[@crtxl]

However, some devs use the bad signal for features. Especially on PAL systems you can display more colors. Using dithering techniques. For text display RF is shit. But back in the day it was all I had on my Atari 8-bit

[@Alianger]

What tv is used?

[@goldhagengaming]

The video is recorded straight to the computer, its not recorded from a crt or display.

[@Alianger]

@@goldhagengaming Right, thanks.

[@2kBofFun]

@@goldhagengaming I asked that too, read the answer here now, but I think dis does not do the comparison justice. It needs to be compared on Trinitrons. Get 3 exact same Trinitrons, hook up 3 NESes and make a gliding rig to pan your camera acrosse the 3 :)

[@kentoad8948]

I'm not sure what's going on with your capture, but the colors on composite and RF don't look correct. I get a vibrant blue sky on Air Man's stage through composite, at least on a CRT through an NTSC connection. The colors look similar to RGB, so I'm guessing that you are not capturing accurate composite and RF. The varying levels of blur through the different outputs look correct, though.

[@goldhagengaming]

Could be multiple reasons. The crt could show colors different depending on the settings and also the difference between lcd and crt, there could also be a difference between PAL and NTSC. The RF and composite was captured using different techniques.

[@voltz15]

There are a few people on twitter showing what the effects of games really look like in composite, so even if the quality is improved, much of the graphic effects composite creates tend to be destroyed. All the levels in Ducktails no longer match up, but other games that make the sprites look solid end up being reduced to pixel blocks.

[@goldhagengaming]

I can see what they mean, but i don't agree. As long as you play on a crt you won't get pixel blocks and the image looks as the developers intended. There are ALOT of consoles that have RGB output native.

[@puregameplaysonhard]

@@goldhagengaming I totally agree. As far as I understand it, the structure of the CRT screen simply creates a visual effect of pixel separation (grid?), adding depth, details, and much more to the image on the screen. If it's not that noticeable in early 3D games, it's a real game changer (quite literally) in 2D retro titles.

[@303otto]

thx for your video - its an amazing comparison! its crazy, your RF and Composite-Signals are both soooo stable compared to my two NES (EU&US). Recapped both but the screen is always randomly shaking every few seconds horizontaly by 3 to 5 pixels and i dont find a solution to fix this :( Over time(playtime) its getting better but never get stable like yours... I would prefair composite - any suggestions where i can take a closer look to fix it maybe? i switched the EU-RF Box and build it into my US-NES an it way better than before (as i described above). Before the swap my US-NES got a weird screenoutput: every second scanline was offset by 3 to 6 pixels while the other scanlines was offset into the opposite direction (both horizontal). And this offset minimizes towards the middle of the screen like a damped oszillation and from the middle of the screen towards the last bottom line the picture was perfect. The weirdes part of this behavour was that it flickers ramdomly every few seconds between the discribed above and a normal picture but the normal picture wasnt stable and was seen for just a fraction of a second and than it switched back to the distorted picture :(

[@goldhagengaming]

Thanks a lot man! Sounds wierd that both consoles have the same problem, are you using a crt or OSSC (or similar)? Are the problems with one game or every game?

[@2kBofFun]

Is your TV junk? Look at that side first.

[@ChrisFredriksson]

Maybe missed it in the video, but which RGB mod are you using? Just recently decided to look into RGB modding one of my NES and it seems there are more than one. I övrigt superbra jämförelse!

[@goldhagengaming]

The RGB mod is NESRGB from etim. I have done a few different ones, N64, NES, Famicom and they all work great, very satisfied with them :) Lycka till, hör av dig om du har några fler funderingar!

[@ChrisFredriksson]

@@goldhagengaming Nice, been looking at the etim variant, seems very easy to do. Thanks for your reply! 😀

[@AstoundLikesWoW]

I would love a comparison exactly like this but for the n64.

[@goldhagengaming]

I will definitely make one in the future!

[@voltz15]

RGB vs YUV?

[@sebastienlopezmassoni8107]

amazing difference

[@bananieldiamonds1921]

I feel like the RF looks the best in the sense that it kind of blurs things together. the crispness of the RGB is off putting for me. not to mention the game designers made these games with RF in mind, they used the blurring of CRT TVs as well to make transparency effects.

[@dekky3908]

The difference between RGB and Composite is staggering, all my consoles are RGB modded now except my NES. Guess its next on the work bench.

[@goldhagengaming]

It looks so amazing on a crt!

[@badreality2]

I can see playing via RF, on an old-school C.R.T., because its colors are closer to RGBs. Plus, you may have it set up to a period-correct set, which will be "stylin'". If you own a PVM on the other hand... I think I will prefer RGBs. Just remember, RGBs CAN be converted to Ypbpr, via a Shinybow, Tim Worthington's NES component board, or HD Retrovision's video cables, which opens up other televisions, and setups, to you. People say that Ypbpr vs. RGBs is comparable, but in my experience, the fomer's colors are closer to composite, meaning that they are brighter than they should be. ...and it's 10% blurrier than RGBs. ...but considering pre-1998 games weren't normally viewed on a razor-sharp display, the loss in quality is not as bad as one might expect.

[@goldhagengaming]

Yep, couldnt agree more. It’s quite common in europe that CRTs had RGB as standard due to scart. But the RGB on a PVM compared to a consumer CRT with RGB is huge. Maybe I should make a video on that too.

[@aza1479]

I have a snes with RGB mod and a pvm 9 inch Trinitron with RGB connection and it is so nice.

[@NickFILM17]

Hi there, great video. I'm just wondering if the capacitors have been replaced in the NES with new ones. I believe new ones would give a better image if the existing ones are 30 years old. Thanks! Nick

[@OneMore1UP]

Nice comparison , got me a Hi-Def NES, very crisp and clean picture.

[@goldhagengaming]

Nice!

[@NintenPizza]

Gotta go with RF for that authentic retro nostalgic softness, and Component for the richer vibrant colours, better contrast, higher brightness and zero colour bleed. To this day, I still prefer playing NES games using RF on a 27" Sony Wega Trinitron over any of the other higher end cables. Composite just never looked right to me either. And i could never get on board with playing NES games in 1080p on an HDTV with the sprites looking razor sharp and square-y. it just makes the experience look artificial and lifeless. Back in the late 80's and early 90's, using RF on smaller 24" - 27" Tube TV's, with their below Standard def resolution, combined with the interlaced picture and softness from RF made NES games appear more organic and cartoon-like, which is how they were always intended to look in the first place. Heck, the Famicom which debuted in 83 didn't even receive composite until 1993 with it's console revision, AV famicom. Japan knew where it was at. lol

[@eduardbaciu8860]

It would have been interesting to see this comparison on a CRT...these games aren't meant to be played on high def screens

[@goldhagengaming]

I totally agree, i have received many comments about how rgb is pixel perfect and ”not intended”. I would like to make a fair video compairing on crt for the real deal!

[@richyroa]

Good comparison, though the games seem to be running at 50hz... they look and sound so weird :/

[@goldhagengaming]

Yes, as it says in the description :)

[@joshforsyth5710]

This must be 50 hz....Castlevania sounds slower to me.

[@goldhagengaming]

Good call! It also says so in the video description :)

[@naircat]

RF is GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!

[@NintenPizza]

"If you're not using RF, you're an asshole" Mike Matei*

[@LiteVLOGS]

Fr, up until the genesis, or the snes.

[@BasementBrothers]

You're funny. One thing that can be easier to fix with an upscaler is the brightness, so that the blacks look the same as the 16:9 borders.

[@goldhagengaming]

@Basement Brothers Well, yes, I have a OSSC. The brightness is correct on both my PVM and in OBS, but then for some reason got brighter in Premiere when I exported it, maybe some codec issue or something. In my opinion it didn't really matter since the video is about video quality comparison and not about if I can color match the borders, so I didn't bother to fix the issue. But I will take this feedback with me in the future.

[@JohnJTraston]

RGB look too cartoony and sterile. It'd prefer composite. The problem with RF back in the day was a lot of interference from all around. The image would always have way more artifacts and noise and other junk than what you have here.

[@TheMadisonHang]

i wanna say, RGB is the better original source output. but TVs that accept RGB natively*, not really that good, your gonna have to go with an converter at that point which i think is different but thanks for the video! much, appreciated.

[@panadolf2691]

For my observation with my PAL NES, without modding console the best is RF. RCA NES output looks disgusting on my TV. Of course RGB mod is night and day and there is also emulation.

[@clappinmonkey0944]

I have since modded my toploader nes to composite witch was much better overall but for those who are not wanting to mod a console and only have an rf option get a rca to coax screw in adapter and attach it to the tv then get a good RCA cable (one preferably made with RG6) and directly hook the console to the tv.. get rid of the box all together. And it surprising makes rf much more tolerable

[@goldhagengaming]

A good cable can make a huge difference!

[@ulfrinn8783]

we really need to stop blowing up these images 10x or so to highlight the differences between outputs. Nobody plays a game like that so it's a completely useless data point. Overall picture quality is all that should matter.

[@goldhagengaming]

The single point of the video is to compare video quality, of course that’s important. It’s like having a video about comparing cars but not mentioning the performance because the cars have four wheels and that’s all that should matter. Besides, viewing 10x on the phone probably compares to the normal picture on a 14” and so on. Saying nobody ”plays like that” is a completely useless view point since you don’t know what people view on or game on.

[@ErikaBiohazard]

Composite in tv CRT os the best for me

[@elamriti]

iam using svideo nes on my 1701

[@RetrofIex]

Composite is definitely sharper

[@Scudmaster11]

I still use RF and not switching... I'll even use RF on the gamecube

[@goldhagengaming]

Old school, nice!

[@Scudmaster11]

Infact I axualy use RF on a Xbox one

[@Scudmaster11]

I'm a RF user

[@Scudmaster11]

I just see the image as supior to ever HDMI

[@Scudmaster11]

Yes I will go that far

[@GRTLABUDIA]

RGB = EMULATORS

[@goldhagengaming]

Its on a rgb modded nes. So it’s not captured from a emulator.

[@Cyclon32289]

RF gives you this 3d-ish effect on sprites giving much more detail and RGB looks like pixel art. Retrogaming is one of those cases when less is more.

[@thedancingpipestuffer]

RGB looks so much better, but I'm not gonna lie, I'd rather play NES on that fussy RF image just out of nostalgia 😂