Neumann U87 - Greatest Mic Ever, Or Total Trash?

[@DMKahn]

Great video. I think there’s something to be said about the smoothness of the u87. When EQ’d to match closer to the black hole, it was way smoother than the black hole. Perhaps this is the saturation of the mid range you spoke of.

[@WeissAdvice]

The midrange really supports the top, and that's one of the most valuable characteristics of the U87. I personally think the Blackhole top end is smoother, to my ear, but there sure is a lot of it.

[@rtdrec]

My whole Chain was mid-forward. U87Ai - Neve 1073 SPX - 1176 LN - Apollo X ...mids, mids and more mids. But i liked it😁 My new Chain: Sony C800G - Neve 1073 SPX - DBX 160 VU - Apogee Symphony. (it's a lot cleaner, transparent and modern sound) Insider tip: Buy the Innertube Kit for the U87 from InnerTube Audio. It turns the U87 into a world-class microphone. Through the tube it doesn't sound like a U67 but much brighter, more modern (in the direction of the Sony C800 G but a bit warmer, fuller, rounder) something like the Sony C800 (without G). It can easily compete with the Big 5. And the best part is, you can undo the mod at any time within a minute.

[@jongriffin2608]

Hey Matt, very fair analysis, its actually difficult to appraise the u87 objectively given its dominance during what we might describe as the formative era of truly modern recording. I feel the same way about The Beatles - are they really the best band in the world ever, or were they in the right place at the right time? Either way, it hardly matters. Both existed at a time of great change and innovation and that will always reinforce the appeal. The 87 is such an iconic microphone - with a distinctive characteristic, that even if its not the best mic for the job, its character might be more desirable. I love the build quality and the ‘vibe’ but its a surprisingly conservative mic when it comes time to inspire a vocalist. I agree with everything you say here. Cheers Jon

[@WeissAdvice]

Someone asked me about how I "feel about Telefunken mics" and that was kinda my thought. Bad or good, over time they've become such an iconic sound there's almost this subconscious emotional connection.

[@RedSpark_]

How do you feel about using neutral/dark mics and adding top end vs using bright mics? it seems like if you have a bright mic and the sibilance is harsh, it's harder to dial it back. I guess a factor is expensive bright mics vs cheap bright mics aswell.

[@WeissAdvice]

It really comes down to the QUALITY of the top end. If I wanted to darken up the Blackhole it would sound fine because what's there is very well represented. Similarly, I can brighten up the U87 and while it's a bit more textured and maybe a hair grainy, it still sounds good.

[@RedSpark_]

@@WeissAdvice Good to know. I think bright mics definitely have more potential to sound amazing but I feel quite cautious about buying one because I don't have a draw full of alternatives :D

[@BagOfTricksCat]

I’ve definitely noticed the graininess in the top end when boosting during the years I’ve spent using my 87 in the studio. I ended up grabbing the WA-8000 (Warm’s C800-G), to have an alternative for singers and records that need a smoother and brighter sound. That has worked out nicely for me! I don’t think it’s the BEST microphone of all time, but I think it’s one of the most reliable. Countless hit records have been recorded on it every decade since it’s come out and I’m sure will continue in the years to come.

[@WeissAdvice]

you ended up getting a 67 at one point though right? Cause that's what the 87 wants to be.

[@BagOfTricksCat]

@@WeissAdvice I don’t have a 67, but Brian does in studio A. Definitely superior to the 87! I feel like the 67 is almost a 1 size fits all mic for vocals, which is not the case for 87.

[@who_is_dis]

LOL The noise floor on the WA / alternative cheaper model clones is ridiculous.

[@rodolfobrant1538]

In my opinion the U87 is an amazing MIC, but to see it really shine it would be important to have an amazing pre amp, I like to use mostly tube preamps. Also, to see that classic sound, John lennon's imagine sound, it would be recorded direct to tape. Also, the vintage u87 is way smoother. bye

[@NeonAlgo]

another great vid, thanks! I also find the u87 kinda more peaky while the black hole sounds more compact

[@WeissAdvice]

Peaky might be a good way to describe it. Blackhole is kinda flat up until that 7k range and then it's take off.

[@ronedwards8239]

I think the MA200/300 work better for most singers. Just smooth and detailed. U87AI or original U87 just sound pretty grainy and sibilant. What a lot of people don’t get is when this mic was designed was the analogue tape era where the high end was rolled off. This mic helped punch through the mic. With 24 bit high end resolution recording none of that natural roll off is present.

[@aestbird]

the best microfoon does not exist , it depend on the application . Bud it is a very good all rounder

[@kelvinfunkner]

excellent comparison. I definitely like the smoothness of the top end of the U87, but have never been a fan of the grainy-ness of it though...never ever noticed the mid saturation and your eq comparison surprised me...I have a couple questions for you though...is the capsule in the U87 been the same for all these years and just has "aged" giving it it's character, or would you say it's an accumulated change with the age of all the components (due to the obvious degradation of organic components over time)...second question that has come to mind with all of these mic comparison videos is why you prefer to use two mouse clicks to switch between tracks using the mute buttons rather than the "x-or" solo mode in Pro Tools to switch seamlessly between the two tracks with only one click.

[@WeissAdvice]

Sounds to me like there's a bit of roll off and extra saturation in the top, which is a natural affect of age. Resistance builds up along the circuit path and causes those to occur. The capsule itself is likely in great condition. Because I do a lot of mixing I rarely use x-or solo mode. I'm often times soloing multiple things to hear them specifically together and I guess I'm just averse to the shift key.

[@kelvinfunkner]

@@WeissAdvice thanks for the reply. I was mainly checking because I have a bunch of LDC's that seem pretty stable...same capsules for years and years...but my Manley Ref C needs a new capsule every 7 or so years...I did get 10yrs out of one though, but Paul over at Manley said that is quite rare...That makes perfect sense about the mute button thing...I figured there had to be a specific reason...I do a ton of vocal tracking and comping here, so when going through a bunch of takes, x-or is definitely a necessity for me

[@ibrahimalsayad1]

How does the u87 compare to the telefunken elam 251e for male vocals?

[@liltdub1]

u87 or the manley ref c im trying to see what i want for my end game mic

[@gRosh08]

Uncle Ry-Ry said find the "Made in Germany" badge and stop the craziness already.

[@CharlesSzczepanek]

When I started engineering I bought Neumann mics because I was told "they are the best" ... the more work I did, the more I disliked the Neumann color. These days, my Neumanns hardly ever come out of the box anymore!

[@WeissAdvice]

Yea, I pretty much have a u87 so I can say I have a u87. It's a good mic, but, meh, there's better.

[@danielpenaofficial4186]

What microphones do you use now?? Names and models

[@CharlesSzczepanek]

@@danielpenaofficial4186 I primarily engineer classical recordings, so my go-to mics are usually small diaphragm and in the Schoeps family. CMC6 bodies and a variety of capsules, but most commonly the mk2 and mk4 caps.

[@gRosh08]

Uncle Ry-Ry said just show him the MONEY!

[@chizzulwinduh1941]

A great video, thank you Matt. I sure wish someone would tell me what mic sounds best on my voice! A rough guide on what mics are best suited for different male voices would be awesome. I have a U87, an Earthworks SV33, A Sphere L22 from Townsend labs, but they all sound OK. Maybe I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for. It all sounds like voodoo to me.

[@WeissAdvice]

You can use the Sphere to figure out what generally sounds best as it emulates other mics. What are you using for a preamp?

[@chizzulwinduh1941]

@@WeissAdvice Good idea, thanks. I wasn't sure if the Sphere really is close to the mics that it sims. I have Neve 1073, API 512c, UA 610, Earthworks 521 ZDT, Cranborne Camden mic pre's as well as UAD Apollo X8p preamps. I've done a shootout, but as I say, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for to suit my voice, they all sound great! I suppose it's that slight nuance that will give the best result, I just don't know what I'm meant to be looking for.

[@eddwardmusic]

Def try Telefunken TF51 and thank me later ;)

[@jvonnjvonn4688]

Do the warm audio sony 8000 mic

[@alphaomega6062]

Is the ubiquity of the U87 similar to how lots of studios had Yamaha NS10s which became a de facto standard irrespective of their actual merits?

[@WeissAdvice]

Kind of - except NS10s are genuinely bad monitors and everyone is (or should be) kind of aware of it. It's sort of the point. U87s are genuinely good monitors, but in my opinion and as stated I think they get a little more hype than deserved.

[@Mike_Benz_]

Always great information. Have you ever heard of (or even tried) Roswell Audio Microphones? They are very affordable, made in the US and get some good praise. I have a Mini K87 which I think sounds really good for the price (better than any other mic I have bought in that price range). I don't have a Neumann U87 to compare it to but I have a Neumann TLM103 (which is somewhat close to a U87 in sound) and the Mini K87 sounds very similar (very close in sound) to it. I really want the Roswell Mini K67 after watching your video on mics and what voices they tend to suit. I record mostly a vocalist (Rapper) which has a deep voice with a grainy/gritty top end, cheap mics really hate his voice because the top end just becomes harsh, brittle and frizzy, so I feel like a U67 type mic would really suit his voice. What are you thoughts if you have any? I must mention the TML103 is the best mic I've used on his voice so far, and Mini K87 is very close, the top end is a little grainy but controlled in both on his voice.

[@WeissAdvice]

You're the second person to ask me about Roswell Microphones. I like U67s on rap quite a bit, they have a much broader midrange saturation than U87s so you get a smoother sound, but still get that mid forwardness that rap vocals tend to like. TLM103 is another mic that gets a lot of controversy. I like them. Particularly on Cello and Upright Bass.

[@Mike_Benz_]

@@WeissAdvice Legend, thanks heaps for your response and view/experience.

[@Dante-qf9yd]

I have the Nuemann u87, but it depends on what you like.

[@huberttorzewski]

Blackhole is very bright, harsh in the highs and thin in the lows. U87 way more balanced and better-sounding.

[@WeissAdvice]

Tbh I find the 87 way too mid forward, particularly on my already mid-forward voice. The blackhole is definitely a bright mic though.

[@huberttorzewski]

@@WeissAdvice you might try JZ Vintage 67 someday, it has a slight mid dip and sounds smooth, altough needs deessing but it' way less bright than Blackhole. I like it a lot for vocals

[@rundajulesproductions7735]

When eq'd the differences were so subtle that it would be price that would make the difference for me. Could you explain why the age of the microphone is related to it's tone? Also, I heard the frequency range of a newer Sony mic is up to 40k. It has a 2nd small diaphragm that is dedicated to the high frequency. Could you explain why that might be (and why such attention to inaudible frequencies)? I always thought bigger was better. Thanks for the info!

[@WeissAdvice]

That's also a really good consideration - if both of your options are going to sound good, at the end of the day, how often does it matter what the EXACT sound is. Sometimes it matters, but a lot of the time, we just want something that's going to represent the source well. And if a cheaper mic matches up, why not! As components age they come out of spec. Capacitors experience dielectric loss, tube filaments start to run out of electrons, dust and smoke can collect on the capsule, head baskets get damaged, nicotine corrodes wire. Sometimes circuits need to have matched components in order to produce a linear response, and when they come out of spec it produces subtle distortion. As various components corrode or collect dirt the resistance goes up which usually results in high freq roll off. Someone who knows the electronics could probably explain it better but that's about the gist of it. I think the theory with higher frequency response is that if you can collect accurately up to 40k, that means your 20k-22k is going to be much more linear than if you are only tuning up to 24k. Otherwise you may need a mic that goes much higher if you are recording things for like sciency purposes.

[@RedSpark_]

I know some sound effects people that use it for things like creature voices. when you record that high you can slow it down even further while keeping it natural sounding.

[@rundajulesproductions7735]

@@RedSpark_ Interesting. Thanks for that info!

[@rundajulesproductions7735]

@@WeissAdvice Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I got your guide to low end and hope to build upon what ATCQ taught me. Since you seem to appreciate a lot of 90's HH, I thought I would share this mix of 3 beats I made and 3 jokes (Norm Dave Norm) kzbin.info/www/bejne/npbMc6SmZsurd68

[@shingAMarie]

Which jz blackhole was this? The bh2?

[@dspoet1]

Appreciate this video. I'm in the market for a u87.

[@WeissAdvice]

you have a decent preamp?

[@dspoet1]

@@WeissAdvice Yes. Neve Shelford Channel and two Neve 511s.

[@jvonnjvonn4688]

Should do the sony mic everybody talks bout it

[@DIPProjectIOFFICIALCHANNEL]

Чтоб бы раскрыть все краски 87, подбирается связка с предусилителем, и записывать в хороший оцифровщик!

[@alphaomega6062]

Is there such a mic as a Telefunken U47 and what does it look like? ;)

[@alphaomega6062]

I heard it mentioned in a Zappa song...

[@WeissAdvice]

Kind of. The U47 has always been a George Neumann design, but Telefunken was the original distributor of the U47, so the first mass produced U47s had a Telefunken badge. The original circuit was also designed around a Telefunken tube, but when that tube got discontinued the mic was redesigned in a number of ways (including the U67 which had a different capsule design). It looks old.

[@alphaomega6062]

@@WeissAdvice I'm guessing you are not familiar with the lyrics of the Zappa song I was alluding to. P'robly for the best. The line is something like "It looks just like a Telefunken U47.. You'll love it!' In the song Frank is trying to persuade a girl to join the crew on the bus by saying he has a 'present' for her. From the Album 'Joe's Garage'.

[@ripdocholiday9650]

The black hole sound very smooth to me and better then the u87 I hate them mics now u got to eq all that honky mids out of a u87

[@WeissAdvice]

I agree, particularly on my already honky-ass voice LOL

[@ripdocholiday9650]

@@WeissAdvice lol

[@ripdocholiday9650]

U killing the game I would love to see u put that whole mix start to finish of that Rick Ross feature that will have your views and subscribers through the roof