THOROUGHBREDS OR UGLY DUCKLINGS? Hornby Thompson Twins in Action With Archive Sound.

[@PaulDavies-r5w]

I actually like them contrary to all the negative comments over the years they were a design out of necessity to standardise and update without these they may not have git Peppercorns A1 and A2 .having an A2/2 in my fleet as well they have grown on me . And offer something different and are a major link to the LNER family of pacific locomotives well done Mr Thompson.

[@kellypaws]

Thoroughbreds. Bought one and immediately gave in to temptation and bought a second. Stunning.

[@sullivanrachael]

I thought for the first few moments this was colourised original footage! Only when you notice the lack of smoke, and the tension lock couplings on the coaches is the illusion broken for a moment. The camera work, the weathering, the angles, and the sound combine to produce goose bumps! Absolutely brilliant piece of work! That layout is also an excellent place to let a main line express have a blast and capture the presence of several hundred tons of material thundering through. Not too many layouts actually can do that.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks for the excellent and very kind comment, and thanks for watching too! The layout isn't massive, but for the visible sections I tried to incorporate gentle curves for filming / photographing. Trains look good running fast on those bits, but I've screened the inevitable tight bends with trees etc!

[@williamwoolhouse5080]

I remember as a boy aged 8 travelling with my mum and dad to Hartlepool from Peterborough as 60515 Sun Stream backed down from New England shed on to our train. As we stood and watched in awe Mallard coasted in on a southbound express.I was dizzy with excitement.This was 1955.These videos are simply marvelous and the sound recordings are superb.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Great memories thanks for sharing, they must have been very imposing machines as an 8 year old. Thanks for watching, I'm glad you enjoyed!

[@meltonin8837]

fabulous filming. almost real. I love the Thompson pacifics.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thank you, I like them too.

[@FlyingScott]

A shame enthusiasts back then were so far up themselves to appreciate the beauty of the Thompson 4-6-2s. I can definitely vouch for the model, smooth as butter at the prototypical speeds!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

I'm a convert after working on these, not that I ever disliked them, more that you never really see much about them. The superb Hornby model has really put that right in recent months.

[@PaulDavies-r5w]

Having g looked at these videos again they really are not bad looking .They have their own place along with the A2/2 in Eastern Region design tree.I have a fleet of exLNER pacifics and these really stand out as well as compliment my Gresley and Peppercorn designs. I wish someone would bring our a B2 now

[@ianstephen568]

Fantastic, very nicely done, great weathering on the locos and coaches.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thank you for the kind words, and thanks very much for watching!

[@Duncan038]

Absolutely stunning video. Great looking locomotives and fantastic camerawork. In real life terms , this era for me was the absolute high point for railways in Great Britain. What it must have been like to see those magnificent machines at full chat on the ECML , halcyon days indeed.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome! Thank you very much and thanks for watching! It really would have been quite something. I would also have loved to have seen a 50 wagon plus unfitted freight rumbling through behind an 02 or 8F then clanking to a stand.

[@zacharyspinks6207]

These do looks Amazing, the Sound Quality is Awesome!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed! 👍

[@Chris-BognorRegis]

Nothing I like better than to sit down with a cuppa and watch your wonderful locos running on that beautiful landscape along with those fantastic sounds, bliss. Regards Chris

[@michaelcotgreave271]

Ordinarily I would treat any Thompson loco with disdain, Great Northern comes to mind . The P2s were built for a particular purpose and as originally built, were quite elegant. The rebuilds were anything but

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thank you Chris, and thanks very much for watching! Hope you enjoyed the cuppa.

[@multitechcorporation4144]

Wonder full and amazing

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thanks! 👍👍👍

[@louisformon7448]

As usual Steve brilliant weathering shown off by equally brilliant camera work. Whilst I am an A3 fanatic you certainly enhanced the growing popularity of Thompson's Pacifics. I could not take my eyes off the excellent weathering of the rake of Gresley teak coaches. Some of my A3 stud are coming your way soon !

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Hi Louis! Great to hear from you thanks for the comment and I'm glad you enjoyed it. By the way I've finished the book now, I enjoyed it so much I had to read Border Steam again! Both will be in the post to you soon.

[@AndreiTupolev]

I've always had a soft spot for the Thompson Pacifics; I actually think the A2/3s (and 60113) were impressive looking things. I'd gladly put up the money for someone to build a new one.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

They are very imposing machines, and must surely be nearly as long as a Princess which I thought was the longest conventional British loco (maybe that’s just preserved engines though 🤷‍♂️). Yeah I’d love to see one of these recreated, or an A2/2 for that matter.

[@GreenhillJunction]

Excellent video as always. Love all the sounds and viewing angles, makes it almost real. Cheers, John.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

[@allanwilson8161]

I used to listen to the Thompson Twins in the 80s but nothing as good as this sound track and video . Really good ! Allan

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

I don't know them, but I expect I would recognise a couple songs if I head them!?

[@archerry6457]

Quality abounds! 👏

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks, they were impressive looking machines and it’s a great Hornby model.

[@nige7577]

Another superb production Steve, can’t believe how real to life it looks and with your clever use of original archive sound makes it a dream to watch 👍👍👍

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks Nige! Really appreciate the comment, glad you liked it and thanks for watching. Peter Handford’s archive recordings are so evocative and a priceless aural glimpse of the past.

[@alanhowes4775]

That's one stunning video. Fantastic modelling!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Glad you like it, and thanks very much!

[@nigelericogden3200]

Thank you 🙏. I always look forward to your videos. Superb filming and sound, your videos really do evoke the era. Wonderful 🙏

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thank you so much Eric, and thanks very much for watching!

[@phil36310]

Most enjoyable video and great weathering again ! Cheers

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thanks Filip, and thanks very much for watching!

[@vectorbrony3473]

From what I've read Thompson was not a Gresley hater. He was much more a praticallity kinda guy and keeping locomotives simple. Great Northern was worn out completely before Thompson breathed new life into it and the A2/2 had been a mechanical nighmare nearly all their lives. Thompson wanted to cut down on the numbers of Locomotives going into overhaul by making them more durable.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Yeah I think he gets an unfairly harsh rap. Also in the war, he wasn’t allowed to build new Pacific’s, but could rebuild locos. I suppose the P2 was an obvious candidate as it was built for a niche requirement when “mixed traffic” (as the A2/2’s were officially classified) was far more useful during war time.

[@MrTBrearley]

Superb skills on filming & editing & sound design - and that's before you even consider the subtle and super realistic weathering

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks MrT! High praise for the pupil from the master!

[@patholley4475]

These videos are so good. Amazing stuff.

[@andrewlowe8553]

Brilliant! I’ve always thought they looked pretty impressive machines!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Yeah me too, I particularly like the distinctive A2/2’s as well, they’re impressively brutal looking I always think. Thanks for watching 👍

[@lordsnooty4138]

Fantastic camera work. I'm particularly impressed with the internals of the tenders.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Many thanks! Yeah the tenders are a nice chance to get all rusty and crusty textures, even on the cleanest of locos.

[@going2thedogs]

Another superb upload. Thks for sharing.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Its always a pleasure - thanks for watching!

[@CheshireLines]

Amazing film work and modelling !!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Glad you think so! Thank you very much.

[@ILOVEBDTRAIN635]

Beautiful vídeos

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thank you very much!

[@Kris-qy7hh]

In my opinion, I love the Thompson pacifics. They’re not overly beautiful, but they’re definitely not ugly, far from it. I especially love Great Northern in her short-lived prussian blue livery!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Now that’s a model I’d love to see! Was the Prussian Blue an experimental livery then, and like the S&DJR livery?

[@Kris-qy7hh]

@@NEVILLEGROVE oh yes! It definitely was a gorgeous livery. Just a few days ago, I digitally drew an A2/1 ‘Waverley’, wearing that same livery, it looks beautiful if I say so myself! I can email a copy to you if you are willing! I’m not 100% sure of the livery’s background, however I do know that only Great Northern wore it when she came out of the works after her rebuild into an A1/1. She wore it up until a little while before nationalization, where it was replaced with LNER Apple green.

[@whitewallwheels1hardcore.m_o_h]

great running session thank you

[@samszeto7303]

Wow, the weathering on the teak coaches is so good, it's really hard to tell they are the railroad ones and not the super detail ones.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

That’s great to know thanks! 👍

[@PixamixsPixamixs]

Fantastic video! 😀would love to see a full size replica of 500 Edward Thompson built after the new P2 2007 Prince Of Wales and V4 3403 Highlander are finished. 👍

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

That would be cool! Thanks very much.

[@amp9930]

Superb as always. Love your work.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thank you, and thanks very much for watching!

[@musoseven8218]

Excellent!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thank you for the comment and for watching! 👍

[@birtle123]

Definitely thoroughbreds for me, more than ably illustrated by your expert weathering and empathetic filming. Yet another excellent video from Neville Grove. Congratulations, you've captured the essence of steam power like no one else, with the possible exception of Mouldy Raspberry. You two should get together..................I'd pay to see that video.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks Steve, very kind words much appreciated. Yeah that is a magnificent layout mouldy raspberry has there! 🤩

[@medwaymodelrailway7129]

Enjoyed the upload .Very nice.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thank you - glad you enjoyed it

[@HemelDownModelRailway]

Another great video the camera work and sounds are amazing! 👍🏻

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thanks! ...and thanks very much for watching!

[@ladela7348]

The camera work in this is brilliant. Could almost mistake it for old archived footage of BR steam with the way the cameras follow the locomotives.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome! Thanks for the great comment and for watching.

[@johnd8892]

Quite a different level of filming and weathering maintained again. Making these controversial locomotives much more attractive.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks very much for that John and for watching. The Hornby model has shone a light on these machines at last, hopefully this video gives a positive spin on the design as you say.

[@wakefieldtrainlad340]

Nothing to say, but this: you’ve earned yourself a subscriber!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thats great, thank you very much! Welcome aboard, there's plenty more videos in the pipeline!

[@joemueller4777]

What a beautiful thoroughbred

[@brucewoods9377]

Great camera work

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks, and thanks for watching 👍

[@rogerwatt8491]

Great video, as always! Thompson's pacifics certainly seem to get a bad press but it is a fact that they were the first ex-LNER pacifics to be withdrawn . . . apparently adhesion on account of the long wheelbase was as issue but I guess it all depends on whose books you read . . . the two best known railway historians of the time, Cecil J Allen and O S Nock, didn't rate them very highly and thought that Peppercorn's pacifics were a marked improvement.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks very much for watching and for the comment. Interesting regarding adhesion / long wheel base. I’d like to read more, I have a couple of excellent books by Peter Brock (“Border Steam” and “Calling Carlisle Control”) who was based at several of the spare links at Carlisle sheds, and subsequently fired / drove all of the LNER / LMS Pacific’s and much besides. Some wonderful tales in there, just about to get to the bit about LNER traction over the Waverley route and out of Edinburgh. Should hopefully be a good comparison from the point of view of the footplate…

[@cireperso]

Very good video, a real spectacle worthy of the cinema! Thank you for sharing. ( Google Translate)

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome! Thank you very much and thanks for watching!

[@brclass125]

Excellent weathering. Would look great pulling my Hornby, Kirk and Comet Rest Triplet Set gresley teak coaches.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Oooh yeah that would be really quite something! They sound amazing. Thanks for watching!

[@wapphigh5250]

love it!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome, glad you enjoyed 👍👍👍

[@mikep4821]

Another very good video, even if the locos are from the "wrong" side of the humps for my taste as an LMS man ;-)

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks, I'm not very partizan loving all the big four and BR standards, but if I had to choose just the one of them it would probably be the LMS too. I spent many hours at Shap and at Carlisle Citadel as a kid which probably explains it!

[@jamestheredenginefan5268]

SPEEEEED NOW UND POWAH

[@Miertreg1]

Super nice video 👍👍👍👍👍👍🔝🙋🏻‍♂️

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thank you, and thanks very much for watching!

[@fernsnyder7072]

Fantastic! I subscribed...

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome, thank you! Welcome aboard, there's plenty more to come. Steve.

[@scalemodelingltd]

Awesome. Can I ask how big your layout is please ?

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Its not large: 5.5 x 2.7 but I'm very lucky to have this space! More info including track plans can be found on this link: neville-grove.weebly.com/neville-grove-model-railway.html

[@scalemodelingltd]

@@NEVILLEGROVE Awesome, Thankyou.

[@mallardduck7279]

The weathering on your models is fantastic! What is your process for doing that?

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks very much 🙏 I use polish / gloss and weather through an airbrush. My custom Deluxe grade of weathering also uses hand painting and powders for various textures and finishes.

[@mallardduck7279]

@@NEVILLEGROVE I see. Do you think that one day you'll make a video demonstrating this process?

[@mikeuk4130]

Great results, guv'nor. I hope these slip less than their prototypes did - they somehow look a lot less ugly.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Awesome thank you, and thanks very much for watching! I know what you mean, they actually look quite handsome in smart LNER green. But then maybe I have acquired the taste since working on them. I have a filthy A2/3 in late BR which I also really like though, so maybe it is the latter.

[@Finnertoncentralmodelrailway]

You have to tell us how you do your filming its extraordinary

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

A lot of patience, time and perseverance coupled with a multitude of ungainly stretches and positions! Mostly done on my iPhone.

[@whitewallwheels1hardcore.m_o_h]

liked and subscribed watching more vids

[@harold5337]

The Thompson A2 is an underrated Steam Engine class, and it's a shame none have been preserved. Easily my favourite engine of Thompsons controversial tenure.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Although arguably not as well proportioned to me as the Peppercorn ancestors, I still really like these A2/3’s. It’s amazing how much hostility all of his designs attract, I suspect much of that is down to rebuilding Great Northern herself?! However there was probably a very good case for rebuilding the P2’s, and for what it’s worth I love the A2/2’s. The possible exception are the B1’s that seem to escape such fierce criticism from enthusiasts, but only last night I was reading how unpopular they were with most loco crews!

[@jameshardy4354]

Is it true what I have heard the reason why the cylinders are fare back is because Thompson had a thing the rods had to be the same length

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

I don’t know actually, maybe someone will see this comment who knows?!

[@HardyTheStormChasinFurry]

Thoroughbreds, i have a soft spot for the thompson pacifics

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Me too, they have a presence about them.

[@nthechocolatefactory372]

What are the name of those wooden coaches?

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

They’re Gresley “Teaks” about 35 years old now! Can still be found in the Hornby Railroad range but they also do a more recent / highly detailed version of these coaches too.

[@Frserthegreenengine]

I think for what they were, the Thompson Pacifics were fine. They did the job and given the situation the LNER were in, they were necessary. I still think the A4 and Peppercorn A1s and A2s were better and I still like them more but the Thompsons are not bad and have grown on me somewhat.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Yeah that seems about right to me, thanks for watching,

[@00models5]

I sometimes can't tell if I'm looking at the real thing or a model!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

HaHa Awesome! Thank you very much and thanks for watching!

[@Siege-v3m]

Thoroughbred. But not just thoroughbred, but workhorse, as a lot enthusiasts criticize the ugly look of thompsons 4-6-2’s. But you need to consider the time and situation where practicality and low cost maintenance was favored over glamor as WW2 was on. My personal opinion is that these workhorses were excellent machines that were built in time when LNER needed to standardize it fleet in time of great need and Thompson’s 4-6-2s was one of those engines needed.

[@joelwatkins]

Even LNER's low-tier locos are a cut above many others. Still, I wish Peppercorn had gotten the job of CME after Gresley instead of Thompson.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

I'm not quite sure how that all panned out but Thompson couldn't have been CME for all that long. To be fair though, as far as I can tell, Peppercorn only perfected what Thompson had done before him - such as with the A2 from the A2/3's in this video. The A1 is essentially just a bigger wheeled version of the A2 as well, so has all the typical Thompson characteristics. Peppercorn adopted all of Thompsons main principles that in turn were a change from Gresley practice: Walschaerts valve gear and using simpler 2 cylinder machines where possible such as with the K1 (this was a production version of the K1/1 that Thompson rebuilt from a 3 cylinder Gresley K4). So I actually think that Thompson has had a hard time, agreed some of his locos didn't look like everyone wanted them to, but his designs are essentially very similar to what came after with the widely celebrated Peppercorn machines.

[@brickleyyard4966]

Something just don't look right with Thompson wheels spacing and that just makes the hole locomotive hard on the eyes

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

To be honest I used to think the same, but having studied numerous photos / worked on these models, it seems I’ve now acquired the taste and really like them now!

[@christopherwilson3442]

Hugly Ducklinks. But they would run. See run by Herringbone between Darlington-York. In articles by C.J.A. so it must be rigt!

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

I'll look out for that thanks! They are pretty massive and with those relatively small wheels must have had very good acceleration you'd think for a Pacific. Maybe a good turn of speed as well then?!

[@Rokesi]

Done.

[@arthurwellesley1815]

Did thompson really name a locomotive after himself

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Well I don’t know if it was him personally that instigated it but whatever, it follows in the tradition of the A4 Sir Nigel Gresley and afterwards a Peppercorn A2 pacific “AH Peppercorn”. The LNER also had a tendency to name locos after their directors so it’s not unusual.

[@arthurwellesley1815]

@@NEVILLEGROVE yes but thompson really didnt deserve to have a magnificent locomotive named after him

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

@@arthurwellesley1815 well that’s a subjective viewpoint I’d say, and after all, he designed that “magnificent locomotive”.

[@arthurwellesley1815]

@@NEVILLEGROVE he also ruined the p2 class

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

@@arthurwellesley1815 again “ruined” is very subjective, they put in many more years useful work as A2/2’s. It’s likely the P2’s wouldn’t have lasted much longer in their original form anyway, but they were indeed magnificent looking machines, both streamlined and original. Can’t wait for Prince if Wales…

[@javanicworks-id]

Give 'em smoke and actual screwlink couplings and boom you have a colourized footage from the 40's!

[@steamgent4592]

Beautiful layout chap. As far as what Thompson did to Great Northern i think it it was an atrocitie. If he really needed to go that he should've picked one of the later A3s. Not Gresleys prototype loco. But it still would've been hideous to the eye. The LNER look was Gresley and I suppose it died with him. Never cared for the locos that followed Thompson nor Peppercorns. I hate to even mention Bullied another designer who accomplished everything ugly.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Thanks very much! Not sure if there was a finer looking design of loco than an A1 / A3, beautifully proportioned and they oozed quality somehow. Completely agree about choosing a different one to Great Northern,. For an antidote, check out one of my very early videos to see GN in her prime. Interesting that Bulleid had a lot to do with several Gresley designs, including the A4’s. In fact he was probably more hands on than SNG.

[@AndreiTupolev]

60113 was simply the next one that was due for shopping, and was generally regarded as a bit of an old nail anyway. In 1945 not many people had too much time for sentiment about desecration of the sainted Gresley

[@steamgent4592]

@@AndreiTupolev except it was the main reason so many folks hated Thompson so I'd say they did care about the Sainted Gresley. The disdane for Thompson goes back to the 1940s when he trashed Great Northern

[@hoangho6781]

Hello

[@edwinlamont4187]

Ugly Ducklings, soz, but they are. Love the Apple Green, but no thanks.

[@NEVILLEGROVE]

Your certainly not alone, I for one have grown to really like them though since researching / working on these models, but there’s no denying, they’re never gonna be as elegant as a Gresley A1 / A3.